My homies over at The Albany Project have done a great job covering the Caroline Kennedy mess today. Here’s a very interesting tidbit:
Apparently, the Governor had chosen his pick to replace Hillary Clinton on Sunday and decided to hold onto that information until after the inauguration in hopes of not taking any attention away from that event.
I have no idea if that might have affected her decision to drop out. Apparently, there was also a potential Nannygate scandal. Paterson will make his choice tomorrow at noon.
Another interesting tidbit I discovered from listening to Andrea Mitchell of all people: the reason Andrew Cuomo isn’t in the mix is that if he goes, then Paterson’s arch-enemy Shelly Silver gets to pick the new Attorney General (actually, this is obvious but I hadn’t thought of it).
Update: Ben Smith, who knows his NYS politics as well as anyone says:
The leaks that she had, allegedly, tax and nanny problems, reportedly came from Paterson’s camp.
And because people are all talking about this (if my inbox is any indication), the rumor is that it will be upstate NYS Congresswoman Kirsten Gillibrand.
Update update: It’s probably Gillibrand.
Update update update: It’s Gillibrand. Got this from a good reporter.
I’m kinda hoping for Spitzer. How funny would that be? He’d be a total big-media lightning rod, drawing their fire away from the Obama administration.
I heard that tidbit from Mitchell too. Stopped clock, twice a day, etc.
Rumors are pointing to Kristin Gillibrand. Don’t know much about her — just re-elected to the House for a second term from upstate NY, she’s the one who took out Frat Party Drunk John Sweeney — but it looks like she was a Democracy For America candidate, which is excellent news for progressives.
I don’t know if I believe the rumors about Gillibrand. Also I didn’t want to post on it for fear of attack from the Open Left anti-Blue Dog jihadists.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Jon H: He could find "common ground" with David Vitter.
I don’t understand why Paterson let this go on for so long. I have heard the explanations given but I just think all this waiting around has lead to a lot of speculation in the media. Once selected by Obama their was little chance that this Clinton wasn’t going to be confirmed. Paterson looks a little foolish and overtaken by events.
Let me repeat….
The obvious choice for the lagacy of Hillary…..
The netroots is cheering the demise of Caroline, who would have been a solid progressive vote in the US senate, but the result will be an anti choice, NRA loving, nut job in Gillibrand. Jane Hamsher, Kos, and all of the nepotism bashers must be sooo happy, right?
Read this link about Gillibrand
The irony is that Paterson may be swinging from the nation’s most prominent Democratic family to one with strong Republican ties. http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/01/the_new_frontru.php
It’s complicated. New York Dems of all persuasions love Democrats who win in Republican upstate districts. And KG did that.
New York politics is all upstate/downstate stuff. KG is upstate and in a tough district for Dems even by upstate standards.
That means a lot of them will be happy with the pick.
Is Gillibrand Too Republican to Replace Clinton?
Kennedy shill detected.
Doug, do you really think Gillibrand can sell in New York City? Her record is scary and are there any major differences between her and Peter King?
Caroline never should have aligned herself with Bloomberg’s goons and all of the "advice" she received from "consultants" was terrible. They should never work in politics again.
I think Caroline would beat Gillibrand in a 2010 primary and maybe it would make all the netroots’ haters happy that she won an election first.
Patterson comes out a big loser in all of this and Cuomo could beat him in the Gov primary as well.
Americans for Democratic Action give her an LQ of 95% in 2007 (very good), but only 70% in 2008. But 4 of the 6 were missed votes, which they score as bad as voting the wrong way.
Anyone with a “D” next to their name wins NYC bigtime in a Senatorial race. You can take that to the bank.
The Dems will hold the seat no matter who they put up, in all likelihood.
King is a shit candidate with no chance. The GOP _should_ back a female upstate county exec like Mahoney or Brooks, but they won’t. I think it will be a free for all and King will have the most money.
This isn’t about holding the seat, it’s about putting a boot on the neck of the state GOP. And that means making inroads upstate.
Call me a shill but Caroline would have been a solid liberal vote and Senator Gillibrand is your typical Corporate Democrat that the netroots rails against all the time.
The whole US political system is full of nepotism and political dynasties but it is time to take all of those arguments out on JFK Jr’s very smart and classy daughter. Seems fair, right?
ADA gave her an LQ of 70% in 2008; King, 45%.
2007: she got a 95%; King, 30%.
Gillibrand even opposes any limitations on the sale of semiautomatic weapons or "cop-killer" bullets that can pierce armored vests.
She opposes any path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, supports renewing the Bush tax cuts for individuals earning up to $1 million annually, and voted for the Bush-backed FISA bill that permits wiretapping of international calls. She was one of four Democratic freshmen in the country, and the only Democrat in the New York delegation, to vote for the Bush administration’s bill to extend funding for the Iraq war shortly after she entered congress in 2007.
Interesting… killing the power of the GOP in the NY State Senate is more important than one more safe vote for reproductive rights in the US Senate, I guess. I’d go for it. Those fuckers have declined a long, long way since the days of Sol Wachtler.
IIRC one of the links posted here about her said she was against the bailout bill(s). That is teh awesome and hardly pro-corporate.
I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but the best one can say about CK is that she’s pretty mediocre.
She may be smart and she may be classy, I don’t know because I never met her. I do know that she gave a shit interview wherein she ranged from diffident to hostile. Whatever the reasons for that may have been, her attitude just reinforced some people’s notion that she felt entitled to the appointment.
Are you implying that Gillibrand isn’t a safe vote on reproductive rights?
I haven’t seen any data indicating that. http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org gave her a 100% rating in 2008, though for many sub-issues listed her status "not in office" (presumably it spans multiple years).
As I said above, I don’t have a dog in this hunt—my preference would be the most liberal person who can get reelected in the future—but it’d be nice to have the story straight here.
Better yet, it’d really piss off prick bankers, who are otherwise busy robbing the US Treasury blind.
The Moar You Know
@Mac G: Boy, will I ever. You’re embarrassing yourself.
So do I.
So do I.
Daily Kos is right here. Best of luck to you in your endeavors.
I’m a born upstate New Yorker,
I will say that my lifelong Dem familiy wanted nothing to do with her. They may be be right, but they also voted for Hillary.
I repeat, Caroline got awful advice and her alignment with Bloomberg and his goons did not help her either.
The bottom line is that a solid liberal vote in a solid liberal state has been compromised for your typical DLC type. My point is that netroots freaked out on Caroline and the end result turns out to be a woman Senator, who is 100 percent pro gun, anti choice and is against citizen ship path for immigrants.
These are the same traits that the netroots goes off on about it all the time.
Liberal, your dog in this race is as apparent as mine. :)
@The Moar You Know: Thanks for your help because from your comment I thought this was Red State.
Nonsense. I don’t live in NY, never have. From the very little I know about the situation, I’d favor Cuomo.
That being said, CK is a thorough mediocrity. I first thought, geez, I thought she wrote some really good books about civil rights. She did write those books, but they were coauthored, and pretty long ago.
Usually (if not always) offspring of famous and/or talented people are pretty mediocre, because of regression to the mean. CK is an outstanding example. (Not that I’m particularly fond of JFK.)
Also, that being said, I’m just asking you to get Gillibrand’s record straight.
And WTF is up with this "I haven’t voted in some elections" crap?
I know next to nothing about any of the parties involved, and as a non-New Yorker my opinion doesn’t really mean anything. I was for Kennedy because 1) her books indicated a policy outlook I agreed with and 2) she would have been able to make it rain money for a reëlection run in 2010. It takes a shitload of money to run for Senate and there’s not much time left to raise it.
Obviously nanny problems make it pretty much impossible to appoint her now.
Yeah, well, that’s her own fault. Just like it was Hillary’s fault that she hired Mark Penn, and McCain’s fault that he hired a bunch of thugs who couldn’t campaign their way out of a paper bag.
Shucking personal responsibility is a right-wing value, not a liberal value, don’t you know?
Speaking of mediocrities, I LUV an Onion comment (from their man-in-the-street feature) after John-John’s death: "I’m going to miss that bar flunking, casket saluting…"
I heard on Keith Olbermann that ALL the possible candidates for the seat are to meet the governor tomorrow, not just Gilli-what’s-her-name. Perhaps we’re overly eager to comment; jes’ saying, is all.
@Mac G: You keep calling Gillibrand anti-choice. Teh google says otherwise.
So who’s correct here–all the articles I found when I googled "Gillibrand pro-choice" or you? I know where my money is.
@Incertus: NARAL New York apparently likes her:
But what does NARAL know?
The Other Steve
Down with monarchies!
Gillibrand? go Glens Falls!
(my hometown region!)
Me too. But he’s out because Paterson doesn’t want Shelly Silver picking the next AG.
The points about Caroline being more progressive than KG are well-taken.
But NYS politics is all about upstate versus downstate. And gun control is one of the dividing lines. I’m as pro-gun control as they come. But I realize that doesn’t play up here and that on the national level, there’s not that much you can do.
What it’s about for a lot of upstaters is about someone who busted her ass to win a Republican district versus someone who’s trying to waltz in off Park Avenue. I’ll take the ass-buster even if I’m not quite so crazy about some of her votes.
I can see the other side of this too. But being close to the ground up here, it’s a good pick, IMHO.
I am a New Yorker from WNY. I have been one for many years. I have no idea who this Gillibrand (?) woman happens to be. If it has to be a woman after the Caroline pull out, then I would prefer Mahoney or someone well known for the position.
My husband and I thought it would be Cuomo for sure considering the political machine behind him and the poll the other day that showed him beating Caroline. He would not be our choice at all. These dynasties have to fade away.
The mayor of Buffalo, NY said he was asked to attend another interview. This was before the news about Caroline’s problem and before her withdrawal was verified. Buffalo Congressman Brian Higgins is also on the list. He’s not talking to the MSM about it.
Right now there are many who doubt Paterson will win an election. He’s ticking a lot of people off with his tax agendas and attitude over seating someone in Hillary’s place.
The choice issue is a red herring. She might have pussy-footed around on something to assuage some Catholic group, but KG, like pretty much all NYS Dems, will be a solidly pro-choice Senator.
She has to be because that’s the kind of thing people get primaried over. And, realistically, she’s as vulnerable to a primary as to the general. This is a blue state.
My source on this is really solid. I’m reluctant to pull the trigger on these things, but I’m talking about a real reporter with 2+ sources. It’s a done deal.
Gillibrand’s conservatism ensures that I shall be voting against her, and Paterson, the next time they come up for election.
What a mess.
Eliot Spitzer — why did you do this to NYS?
I was just flipping through the channels and came across O’Reilly interviewing some reporter from The New York Post who was babbling about some alleged affair between Kennedy and the publisher of The New York Times, Arthur Sulzberger. Is there anything to this?
There are plenty of other Democrats in this state who will pounce on that seat like a fat kid on a cupcake if the appointed official seems weak when primary season is upon us.
@Brian J – I read about a supposed connection to Sulzberger on some other blog today but I cannot remember which one. If true, no wonder the Times seemed to be so supportive of her candidacy. In Church Lady terms, how convenient. :)
There are so many "what ifs" on this one:
What if this was any state other than New York?
What if her name was Caroline Smith?
What if this wasn’t Hillary’s seat?
In all of those, the follow-up is then: how much attention would this be getting? Irrelevant, I guess – but I can’t help asking myself that each time.
But in any case, I would prefer to have someone with an actual voting record (no matter how "questionable") over someone with none whatsoever. I really liked what I saw from Caroline on TV when she was involved in the Obama campaign, but her recent performances have been somewhat embarrassing.
I’ve been trying to get a read on Gov. Patterson (I live in Buffalo, NY – so I’m somewhat interested) ever since he ascended to the throne after the most promising governor NY has seen in a generation – at least my lifetime – got caught with his dick in someone who wasn’t his wife. I think I dig Patterson, but I’m getting annoyed with his insatiable appetite of seeing/hearing his name in the national media. I want to like the guy, but think he’s beginning to seem like The Schume’™ on steroids.
Fuckin shit! The state is a disaster, but every day he takes time to remind the media that he hasn’t yet chosen someone for Clinton’s seat in the Senate. And then proceeds to name drop any number of regionally popular NY politicians who were not truly aggrieved in late November of 1963, nor were any of them chosen almost a week ago – by some reports. Seriously, WTF? I thought Byron Brown – one of the names dropped – was obsessively bad at PR*. Why does it feel like I’m perusing Page 6 to find out who my next Senator will be?
*See: Incident involving Mayor Brown’s SUV, his unlicensed son and the cars that were damaged by said SUV; which, at the time, was operated by said unlicensed son. A Goddamn circus ensues, where an ass-whuppin, sans any press conference, would have sufficed. No, seriously. I did something much more dumb Byron, Jr. and an ass-whuppin’ cured me.
Spitzer would be teh awesome. The only real attack dog the people have had against wall street all decade.
@DougJ: For all the horseshit this whole affair has been, it’s not a bad choice for Senator. I have more to learn about her before I can say for sure, but at least she’s not part of the monarch, right?
I doubt it. I hate Pinch, so I’m ready to assume the worst, though.
Not that this particular Post reporter was responsible for it, but I had to laugh that O’Reilly went after The Times for the gossip and innuendo it prints, some of which goes after him, to a guy from a newspaper that printed some nonsense about Michelle Obama downing lobster and caviar at the Waldorf when she was in another fucking state.
You know, Brian, it’s almost to the point where loving the Times means hating Pinch. That idiot is going to run the greatest paper in the history of the United States into the ground. He fucked up buying back the stock and buying more papers in the 90s (hedge, motherfucker) and putting Howell Raines in charge of the paper was beyond unconscionable. It’s a crying shame, given the greatness of that paper in so many ways.
Truthfully, I think that, opinion page aside, WaPo is a better paper than NYT now. And it’s probably all Pinch’s fault.
As interesting as I found this a few years ago (to the point where I used to read about the creation of The New York Sun with the devotion some guys have towards video games and read poynter.org daily), I’ve fallen out of direct love with it. That said, I have to wonder what specifically is his fault and what is really a symptom of a larger problem with the newspaper industry as it now stands. If I remember correctly, he’s been a big supporter of the push into making nytimes.com what it is, a truly awesome multimedia news site. Since the future of the news looks to be based on something like that, that’s not nothing.
If nothing else, the fact that the paper is so big and so important means that it’s not likely to die a death like any old paper. Hopefully, that will comfort you.
Too big to fail, right?
Nah, just that it’s probably just very valuable, for its name if nothing else.
I have some sympathy with Giordano’s take:
Bob In Pacifica
It’s two years. Who runs in two years?
Speaking as a New York Dem, I’m not. While the country might not be center right, Gillibrand’s district is, and she’s a good representative – for her district. Problem is, she’s a blue dog.
As senator for New York, I’d rather have someone a little more liberal. It’s not like we’re Nebraska or Indiana, and we don’t need a Bayh/Nelson type centrist to hold the seat.
All of this back and forth over who is an appropriate replacement makes me wish that Patterson had appointed a placeholder. There are a number of people who could have fulfilled that role while letting the process play itself out normally two years from now.
OT: The crazies are fired up and ready to go!
About the killer:
Sounds like a real winner.
From the same article:
And we’re just getting started. Stay safe people.
I would accept just about anyone so long as Al D’Amato v. 2.0 does not end up in the seat.
it’s an interesting choice. her district is basically the eastern edge of upstate NY. there isn’t a town bigger than 30K, the whole thing is rural, and with the exception of Saratoga Springs and some prime property around some of the lakes, it’s not exactly high-income. it’s the side of NY nobody knows about – the complete opposite of NYC.
That would be Jamestown in the west. Saratoga Springs and that area are on the main road from NYC to the ‘Dacks, so it is a bit more well known.
Ok. i’ll clarify: it’s the side of NY not known to anyone who doesn’t know that side of NY.
Oh great! We need a "blue dog" to represent us in the Senate? Somehow I always attached the term, blue dog, to Southern representatives.
Last night our local Buffalo late news said Gillibrand was from Albany. Someone here wrote she was from Saratoga Springs. ????????
I see where someone mentioned Spitzer as well. Well, why not when Vitter of LA is sill there and making noise?
she was born in Albany, but her district doesn’t include Albany (does include Saratoga, though).
Albany and Saratoga are, geographically, very close to each other.
Only geographically, though.
This pick makes absolutely no sense.
Paterson is a blue dog dem, her House seat will probably revert to the GOP, and rather than having someone with some influence and access to top people (Kennedy), NY is now stuck with a VERY junior Senator who will likely be primaried next cycle.
If Paterson is courting upstate votes with this pick, I think he’s in for a nasty primary challenge.
I really shouldn’t be, but I’m incredibly amused by this pick. It was terribly predictable with Kennedy out of the running, and now the Open Lefters have to deal with helping elevate a Blue Dog.
Also, people who pushed for Carolyn Maloney should probably stop talking about such matters until they learn a thing or two about politics.
Thanks for the information Cleek.
The Democratic Party chairman of my county had nothing except praise for Gillibrand. "She’s young. She has a year old baby." What!???? Nothing said about her views or her accomplishments.
I would have preferred Louise Slaughter. She was not interested in the position. What ever happened to Nita Lowry? I knew she was going to run for the seat when she backed off for Hillary.
Btw, I don’t vote party. I vote person.