This, from Larry O’Donnell, says quite a lot about how Villagers like himself view the world (from the New Yorker via Ben Smith):
“Paterson has no comprehension of upstate New York, absolutely none, and has chosen someone better at representing cows than people,” Lawrence O’Donnell says. “What you have is the daughter of a lobbyist, instead of the daughter of a former President or the son of a former governor. This is the hack world producing the hack result that the hacks are happy with.”
It doesn’t matter that Gillibrand is herself an elected politician while Caroline Kennedy is a school fundraiser. What matters is what their fathers did.
(I included the part about cows because it’s exactly the kind of downstate rhetoric that turns off us upstaters — the fact that he thinks it’s a smart thing to say tells you everything you need to know about his understanding of New York State politics.)
Fencedude
I’ve never been to upstate New York in my life and I probably have better comprehension of it than this douchenozzle.
4jkb4ia
What is upstate New York, Wyoming?
(Safina pulls another life out of her bag)
Lavocat
DougJ a fellow Upstater? Do tell!
I hail from the Saratoga area. You?
I always love it when Downstaters unfamiliar with Upstate lecture Upstaters on being Upstaters.
Pretty much what we have come to expect.
And I think Paterson is MUCH savvier than people realize.
Also, I hear rumblings that Tedisco is hot for NY-20.
DougJ
I live in Rochester now. I grew up in Hamilton (about 30 miles southwest of Utica).
jenniebee
@DougJ: R U UR?
DougJ
@jenniebee
Yes.
jenniebee
@DougJ: I loved my time on the banks of the Genessee :) Dandelion yellow ftw.
DougJ
@jenniebee
You were an undergrad there?
TheHatOnMyCat
Why do I have this hunch that LarryO said the cow thing just to piss of the upstaters?
And why do I, an Arizonan, care so little for the upstate-downstate tussles in New York?
DougJ
I realize it’s boring. The emphasis here was supposed to be on the dynastic stuff. But, also, frankly, I do think O’Donnell’s cow comment is pretty Villageresque.
TheHatOnMyCat
O’Donnell just enjoys pissing people off. I have to admire such a thing.
jenniebee
@DougJ: yes, UR, English major and on the Debate Union in its first year, but I was a transfer student and only there for one year. Took a class from Riker while I was there, just to say I had. Ran out of $ in one year, so I got a job to save up for another year’s tuition, and at that job I discovered that – and I didn’t know this until then – you could make a living by programming computers! I thought it was just something that geeks like me did as a hobby. Srsly. And I just ended up sorta staying in the working world and now I’m a DBA and a peer-reviewed journal has recently asked me to write articles on coding techniques for them on the side (yow!) Never did finish school though. It was a lot of fun, but so is writing t-sql code, so it evens out.
Church Lady
Pardon my ignorance, but once you get out Manhatten and the rest of the boroughs, and the suburbs immediately north of the city, isn’t the rest of New York what one would consider "upstate"? Why do those in the city seem to think that only they are true New Yorkers?
Martin
Well, 60% of the population of NY lives from the Bronx south and contribute something like 80% of the tax revenue. Crank out some kids and get a real job and maybe folks down there will give a shit about the cow people.
-snarkily yours, a former NYC resident
Elvis Elvisberg
That is shockingly obnoxious, all upstate-downstate drama aside.
The Truffle
I grew up in northern Dutchess County. That’s upstate, yes?
Martin
NYC proper and suitable islands (Hamptons, etc) has really held onto certain continental views, even after all these years. I think most NYers wish the city had its own royal family.
O’Donnells comments aren’t that shocking for the city.
Johnny Pez
Delawareans are lucky. They have a royal family, so they can get on with other things. Like, um, setting up an aristocracy.
burnspbesq
@The Truffle:
Barely. I think of Upstate as beginning somewhere between Exits 19 and 20 on the Thruway. But I’m from pretty far up (born in Albany, and one side of my family is from Whitehall in Washington County).
burnspbesq
@Church Lady:
Ignorance, insularity, and hubris.
The Truffle
burnspbesq:
I grew up in the northern part of Dutchess County, not far from the Columbia County border. Where I lived was not a bedroom community or a suburb at all.
JGabriel
Church Lady:
The major bulk of New York State’s tax revenues come from NYC. In other words, there’s a net outflow of money from NYC to pay for roads, schools, health care, etc., for the rest of the state.
Meanwhile, you’ve got the upstaters continually bitching about us like they are the ones getting ripped off rather than it being the other way around, and voting in bunch of asshole Republicans to the state houses to rip off NYC even more and spread as much tax revenue as they can get away with to their cronies.
Tends to make us a little pissy about upstaters.
(Which, btw, doesn’t excuse O’Donnell’s remarks.)
.
Will
I’m a downstate New Yorker (alright, Brooklyn) who generally likes Lawrence O’Donnell. I cannot believe he said something so provincial, elitist, and insulting about Kirsten Gillebrand. Where does anger like that come from? Who the hell does he think he is? I don’t understand it.
4jkb4ia
(BREAKING: Berdych up two sets to love on Federer)
(Sorry)
4jkb4ia
@jenniebee:
Very cool story
AnneLaurie
… And this has been true since at least the mid-1800s. For that matter, go read some of the bitching between Jefferson’s "rural aristocracy" and Hamilton’s "urbane men of business". I grew up in the north Bronx in the 1960s and early 1970s, when the Rethug appleknockers in Albany were in such full spite-flow (FORD TO NYC: DROP DEAD) that the perennial grumbles about turning the region between Yonkers, Jones Beach and Palisades Park into a 51st state actually rose to the level of serious political discourse. It’s not particularly "Villager" except in the sense that Ankh-Morpork and Lancre have *always* despised each other, even though neither party could survive long in isolation.
Cassidy the Racist White Man
wow…some towns I ain’t heard since my 1st duty station in fort drum…heh.
Ninerdave
@ the New Yorkers…
Opinions on Gillibrand? I wasn’t really thrilled about Kennedy. She looked (from my Bay Area West Coast perspective) like a liberal Palin. Then again, I know nothing, and profess to know nothing about other state’s politics. I could have easily been persuaded one way or another if I really was paying attention (which I was not).
I know Gillibrand has already flip-flopped (for the better) on the Gay Marriage subject.
What say you? New Yawkers?
Surabaya Stew
Even this Manhattanite who has never been Upstate except to visit colleges can say that having Gillibrand as my Junior Senator is the right thing for Paterson to have done. Having the Governor, Senior Senator, Assembly Speaker and most other important positions filled by Downstate politicians is quite unbalanced; Gillibrand was needed to even things out. Seeing how quickly she changed her mind on gay rights ever since she was nominated makes me optimistic that she will adapt quickly to serving the needs of all New Yorkers rather than just those of her old district.
Dave_No_Longer_Laughing
As an East Villager myself, I support the choice of Kristen G. for Senator. She’s a good choice for New York in general. I’ve been all over New York, upstate, Capitol Region, North Country, Western New York. All interesting, all important.
I do not understand the venom this O’Donnell guy spews out. Oh, wait, New York City, particularly Manhattan, is the center of the universe. It’s hard to forget, especially when I live here.
What the hell: where did Caroline Kennedy get off even thinking she was "entitled" for consideration for a Senate seat? When did she last run for office? What are her successes in politics, showing off her power? Hillary! came here, set up shop and, despite being an alien witch, got herself into the Senate on her own (i.e., the people spoke). Hillary! was a good senator for New York. Gillibrand will be as well. What possibly is wrong with her? She’s won elections and doesn’t do things like not pay her taxes or hire illegal immigrant babysitters. And she’s correct concerning guns and liberal on things liberals really care about, like abortion.
scruncher
@4jkb4ia:
Great comeback by Safina. Not sure Federer can do the same.
O’Donnell is a pompous prick.
Walker
The Mother Jones article is even crazier. Essentially it claims that, us Upstaters do not deserve a senator and that NYC is the only part of the state worthy of representation.
Bill H
Is it okay to say that, regardless of where she is from, Gillibrand is cuter than a speckled puppy?
Objective Scrutator
The Village is run by a bunch of left-wing yahoos that do not have a comprehension of the world outside of New York City. Infatuated with Giuliani and bustling with Bloomberg’s hormones, these pathetic traitors believe that anyone who doesn’t live in a metropolis deserves to be sent off to concentration camps (unless they’re from Vermont, of course).
For once, however, they do have a point. Caroline Kennedy isn’t exactly qualified for office, but neither was Hillary Clinton. After all, her father was a textile maker, which is a profession befitting of a drunken layabout union worker. Caroline has been around politicians more; ergo, she was more qualified.
Apparantely, Mario Cuomo wasn’t raised by worthy people, either, but I did notice a couple of inconsistencies in his Wikipedia article:
Weird.
At any rate, Caroline HAS been around politicians all her life, while Paterson has surrounded herself with poor people, who only deserve respect in their support for gun rights. I would trust Caroline over Paterson to be a senator. After all, who would you rather have as an expert on fossils: a Young Earth Creationist that passionately digs them up, or a Darwinist honky that’s stuck inside a laboratory? I know who I’d trust.
Walker
And NYC residents vote in people owned by the financial industry (e.g. Schumer) who fight against regulation and still to this day continue to support policies that benefit bank CEOs over the tax payer.
We can play this game all day. Neither side is a saint in this matter.
cleek
i imagine Fort Edward and Hudson Falls (go Tigers) would be plenty surprised to be considered "downstate". :)
Fencedude
@Objective Scrutator:
You have rendered me speechless.
Good show!
Wile E. Quixote
I think it would be awesome if New York City became the 51st state. Let’s face it, why shouldn’t a city with a population of eight million enjoy the same representation in the Senate as the state of Wyoming? I know that the Senate was originally seen as a way of balancing the power of the large and small states, but now, when you have 21 small states that have a population equal to that of the state of California but which have 42 senators versus California’s two, it seems to me that the pendulum has swung the other way.
Color me crazy but I’d like to see a bunch of large metropolitan areas become their own states. NYC, the Bay Area, Los Angeles/San Diego. It would add some necessary balance to the US Senate.
Wile E. Quixote
I think it would be awesome if New York City became the 51st state. Let’s face it, why shouldn’t a city with a population of eight million enjoy the same representation in the Senate as the state of Wyoming? I know that the Senate was originally seen as a way of balancing the power of the large and small states, but now, when you have 21 small states that have a population equal to that of the state of California but which have 42 senators versus California’s two, it seems to me that the pendulum has swung the other way.
Color me crazy but I’d like to see a bunch of large metropolitan areas become their own states. NYC, the Bay Area, Los Angeles/San Diego. It would add some necessary balance to the US Senate.
4jkb4ia
@scruncher:
Hey, we’re going to a fifth. But since Berdych has been competitive against Federer in the past the possibility of an upset was very real.
4jkb4ia
And now he’s got it. Up 3-0.
MyOpinion
Please pardon me to be off topic but this is urgent.
An innocent man is on death row in Texas.
http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2009/01/is-texas-about-to-execute-innocent-man.html
Forensic pathologists say the science points to yes.
Four forensic pathologists agree that Larry Swearingen, set to be executed Tuesday, could not have committed the 1998 murder that sent him to death row.
The four include the medical examiner whose testimony helped secure Swearingen’s guilty verdict. That medical examiner now says college student Melissa Trotter’s curiously preserved body could not have lain in the East Texas woods for more than 14 days — and probably was there for a much shorter time.
The results mean Swearingen was in jail when the 19-year-old’s body was left behind, the pathologists say.
This is where you can help.
http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteapps/advocacy/index.aspx?c=jhKPIXPCIoE&b=2590179&template=x.ascx&action=11618
Thank you.
Shalimar
Sounds like this Paterson dude needs to get out of New York City and see the rest of the state occasionally so he can understand what really goes on in places like Albany.
If Gillibrand really was better at representing cows than people, wouldn’t her main focus be ending the beef industry?
TenguPhule
At this time that may be considered redundant.
Napoleon
@Fencedude:
God’s country, at least the western portion (the Finger Lake region) that I have visited a fair amount over the years, twice this year to ski. Parts of it look like WV or some place like that (very rural, obvious economic good times have left it behind).
Peter J
So what Larry O’Donnell is saying is that we need less cowbells? Not sure if that’s change I can believe in.
swarty
I have the experience of being a city person for 20 years and also a constituent of Congressperson Gillibrand since she was elected in 2006 (I was a weekender up here since 2001, moved up full time in 06).
While I am much more progressive than my congressperson Gillibrand, I also understand the 20th CD. Lots of rural areas and lots of hunters, i.e. Republicans. There is no way a downstate type democrat would ever get elected here in a million years. She was smart enough to pick and choose her battles. She’s been extremely visible and voters seem to like that. Many of my more liberal friends are upset by this pick, but I am willing to giver her a chance.
The problem I see is that this CD is now likely to revert back to Republican hands, which is very unfortunate. Gillibrand won reelection in a landslide over a very wealthy self financed opponent, who will likely jump in to the special election, as will John Faso, who ran against Spitzer for Governor. They now have the bigger names in the race.
blurm
Seems like upstaters like her, and downstaters who don’t know her don’t. Gee, I winder who has a better idea of her? If you want to look only at her voting record, take into mind she comes from an insanely conservative district. Also, it seems like us libs have forgotten that her job has been to represent the people of ehr district, not become as liberal as humanly possible, voters be damned. I think now that she is representing the state we’ll see her shift left on the stuf that would have made her a 1 and done rep in her area.
headpan
As a resident of a red state, I would just be thrilled to have a Dem senator of any stripe, period. Just one. Count yer blessings, NY’ers, upstate or otherwise.
linda
a couple of nites ago on hardball, i watched tweety ask lynn sweet of the CHICAGO suntimes what insightful gossip she had on the paterson/kennedy fiasco. to her credit, she proclaimed none. however, that didn’t prevent her from yammering for the next 6 minutes on what happened with the paterson/kennedy fiasco.
JR
The part that everyone is missing, or just ignoring, is that this person is a DINO: a Bushdog. That is the problem I have. I have no use for people who only want to take us back to the 13th century.
linda
I do not understand the venom this O’Donnell guy spews out. Oh, wait, New York City, particularly Manhattan, is the center of the universe. It’s hard to forget, especially when I live here.
lawrence odonnell lives in fucking l.a. and is one of the most insufferable assholes on a cable outlet that is packed full of them.
new day rising
It doesn’t surprise me that someone in NYC, especially a Villager, has such a low opinion of beautiful upstate NY. Having spent lots of time in the city, I found that attitude to be common. This isn’t surprising though because NYC is a very provincial and self-absorbed place. I don’t say this because I have a negative attitude about NYC. In fact, I love NY.
sgwhiteinfla
Lawrence O"Donnell is normally a pretty sane voice on MSNBC (he goes after Pat Buchanan on the regular) but I have to say that his advocation for Caroline Kennedy back when her name was first floated and then the subsequently personal tone he took attacking people who criticized her was way way over the top. And it wasn’t just this last time. Every person who has said she didn’t have the resume to be a Senator or who criticized her handling of the press he launched into vicious personal attacks against them. I swear there must be something to his relationship to CK that nobody knows about because my first impression when he kept going off like that was he was fucking her. Now I am not saying he is, but people don’t defend each other they way he did with her unless there is more to the story. This wasn’t him just promoting some candidate.
sgwhiteinfla
Lawrence O"Donnell is normally a pretty sane voice on MSNBC (he goes after Pat Buchanan on the regular) but I have to say that his advocation for Caroline Kennedy back when her name was first floated and then the subsequently personal tone he took attacking people who criticized her was way way over the top. And it wasn’t just this last time. Every person who has said she didn’t have the resume to be a Senator or who criticized her handling of the press he launched into vicious personal attacks against them. I swear there must be something to his relationship to CK that nobody knows about because my first impression when he kept going off like that was he was fucking her. Now I am not saying he is, but people don’t defend each other they way he did with her unless there is more to the story. This wasn’t him just promoting some candidate.
A Hidell
Congratulations! Great job New York. In your battle against Aristocracy you done got yourself a Blue Dog. PUMAs everywhere thank you for your assistance.
DougJ
@ninerdave
I think it’s a good pick. She had to win a tough district to get elected so she knows how to get elected and re-elected. To me, it’s important to reward people who had to crawl across broken glass (as she did) to get their seats.
I bet she ends up being a lot more progressive of a Senator than people think.
A Hidell
All I have to say is that Gillibrand has the NRA’s top rating. Don’t fool yourself. We just got ourselves another Blue Dog. I’m with Nate Silver and Al Giordano on this.
headpan
Eww! What a mental image to start the day off with! Perhaps in his dreams.
Patrick
The whole NY Senator appointment was handled horribly. The left in NYC can be excused if they are a bit upset when Al D’Amato is on the podium with the new Senator. There must have been someone to the left of Gillibrand that was qualified more than Kennedy. Unfortunately, there wasn’t because the rule was, "it had to be a woman." Reminds me of how we got Janet Reno, who let Ken Starr work with Al D’Amato to impeach Clinton. But it was the Clintonites that sank Kennedy because she was a big help in the Obama campaign and transistion. Wow, very Shakespearean.
JGabriel
Patrick:
I don’t know if Clintonites had anything to do with Patterson’s decision or not. Given that Patterson is black, though, I kind of doubt there’s any anti-Obama motive in his decision.
Frankly, Kennedy did a perfectly adequate job of sinking her candidacy all by herself. She was unprepared, she apparently expected to be handed the job without any statewide politicking.
I’m not a blue dog, I’m an NYC Dem by way of Appalachia (lefty, pro-labor, not afraid of playing hardball). And while I’m not crazy about Gillibrand’s voting record, I do like that she has been responsive to her constituents and made it her responsibility to canvas them and meet with them on a regular basis — i.e., she’s a good politician.
If Gillibrand keeps that up, and moves a little to the left on some issues – in recognition of her new statewide constituency – then I think she’ll be a good Senator.
.
kay
I think this is a false choice. Rural v urban. It isn’t even accurate. Upstate New York has lots of different population centers.
Sherrod Brown was a House member who ran for Senate in Ohio in 2006, from an urban district. He’s a liberal. He didn’t need the NRA voters, because he ran on rust belt populist economic issues, and liberals win on those. He campaigned in every county, and completely avoided social issues and guns.
He won on liberal economic policy. Jobs and healthcare, and trade.
Maybe I’m wrong, but upstate New York has enough dying small towns and tanking cities to trump guns. I’ve been there.
If there was ever a time to move off guns, God and abortion, for liberals, it’s now. We have the winning argument on the economy.
truth
@A Hidell:
Gentle reminder: Howard Dean also had an "A" rating from the NRA in 2004.
Neither sought the rating, the rating was bestowed because they took the position favored by their rural, hunting constituents.
Gillibrand will moderate her position now that her constituency has changed.
A Hidell
2010 is gonna be a bloodbath in New York. Paterson misplayed this. Gillibrand is going to go in the meat grinder.
Person of Choler
With the possible exception of some areas of Boston and Los Angeles, the "Villagers" show the same contempt for the rest of the USA as they have for upstate New York.
Hence much of the country’s disdain for and distrust of ideas that come out of what some call the Big @sshole.
Paul L.
Doug J and Larry O’Donnell because she has some non progressive positions.
so you support the Harvard educated Ditz.
So explain this progressive logic, Caroline Kennedy is smart because she went to a ivy league school.
So did George W. Bush.
A Hidell
Truth:
What do I need a DINO for when we coulda had anyone? This was a freebie and Paterson chose to position to the right for 2010. Too fancy by far, cause now he’s open on his left flank. Especially ’cause Gillibrand is dirty.
Charity
I went to college in Poughkeepsie — yes, the same college a certain Fox Noise "commentator" went to — which I believe is in Rep. Gillibrand’s district. I didn’t think "true" upstaters considered Dutchess County to be upstate.
At any rate, I don’t know enough about the Representative to say whether she’s a hack or not. I do know she won in a heavily Republican district. I don’t give a crap about her position on gun rights as long as she agrees with me that bad people should not have access to AK-47’s.
Look, the Repubs have managed a way to fold both religious farmers and moneyed Wall Street types into the party and get everyone on board. Democrats are going to have to learn to do the same. Perhaps a Democrat from Boston or Philadelphia or NYC isn’t the same as one from Montana (Gov. Schweitzer) or southern Virginia (Sen. Webb). And guess what, perhaps that’s OK.
JGabriel
A Hidell:
Can we skip engaging in the same purity wars that are tearing apart the R’s?
The only "Democrat In Name Only" is literally Lieberman, with his "Independent Democrat" bullshit.
.
kay
@Person of Choler:
It’s incredibly stupid because it isn’t even accurate. Upstate New York is "rural" while NYC is "urban"? One part of that set-up is true. Talk about over-simplifying.
Upstate is HUGE. It has regions, it’s so big. It has suburbs, it has cities, it has rural areas. It has several different economic
"zones".
Playing exclusively to rural areas in such a diverse and big state is just stupid. That isn’t where votes are. There aren’t enough people.
JGabriel
This looks like a good sign: Gillibrand Kicks Off ‘Listening Tour’ In Harlem
And Al Fucking Sharpton of all people has the right attitude:
.
kay
Gentle reminder: Howard Dean also had an "A" rating from the NRA in 2004.
Vermont is authentically rural. One population center of any import, right? It’s apples and oranges.
Geoff Wittig
What a flaming asshole O’Donnell is. FYI, Kirsten Gillibrand actually represents suburban NYC; her district includes the Hudson Valley and Katskills, which have far more in common with NYC than with Syracuse or Buffalo.
Those of us who actually live and work Upstate are used to constant gratuitous insults (anybody else remember Ed Koch’s crack about "gingham dresses from Sears"?) from Downstate politicians, but really now. "Better at representing cows that people"?
I’d love to introduce Mr. O’Donnell to some of the patients I take care of who just lost their jobs and health insurance in the ongoing economic collapse. Don’t they deserve representation? Perhaps they can have a ‘conversation’ with O’Donnell; preferably involving a locked room and baseball bats.
A Hidell
JGabriel
Paterson pretty much ensured that New York will be a Democratic war zone for the next two years. Carolyn McCarthy announced a 2010 primary challenge for Gillibrand even before Paterson’s press conference announcing the appointment.
cleek
in this case, it’s a little accurate. there isn’t a city larger than 30K in her district.
Brien Jackson
I hate the pick, but Carolyn McCarthy is not going to be a threat to Gillibrand. And why, exactly, are "the Clintons" mad about this? Gillibrand made her way into politics on the back of Hillary’s 2000 run, and is still pretty close to her [Clinton] as far as I know.
Dave_No_Longer_Laughing
No, they don’t. Just like people from states like Idaho whose votes shouldn’t count as much as someone’s vote from San Francisco. People who live in large population centers are better educated, healthier, rational, and all-around just simply better than the hillbillies…
A Hidell
The Clintons are mad about Kennedy being considered in the first place. And yea, I know that McCarthy ain’t a real threat to Gillibrand. It’s the fact that the attack came so soon and came from the left that interests me. Gillibrand ain’t going to get a honeymoon in New York. I can easily see a well-funded challenge to her, especially if scandal hits her father.
Phoenix Woman
Larry O’Donnell just gave KG one hell of a gift. This is going to be prominently featured in her campaign literature.
I pity the people who are going to be primarying Gillibrand. With guys like O’Donnell on their side, who needs enemies?
Brien Jackson
I doubt that. Anyone of that stature with real backing is going to get "considered."
McCarthy is heavily invested, emotionally, in the gun control issue (her husband was killed on LIRR). She’s only considering it because Gillibrand has an A rating from the NRA. Which is fine if that’s what she wants to do, but she’ll get absolutely crushed in a primary with Gillibrand, and I imagine a lot of people whose jobs are tied up in her House office are going to be lobbying her hard not to kill herself like that.
dr. bloor
@cleek:
Except, her district includes the Saratoga region, suburban Albany, and the commuters in Columbia and upper Dutchess. Plus a few cows.
There is no validity in the myth of a monolithic upstate NY. I grew up in suburban Rochester, my father’s family has had a farm in Herkimer since the late 1700’s, and I had cousins in Buffalo. From a sociopolitcal point of view, we may as well have been from different planets.
mistermix
Fixed it for you. KG has 1 1/2 years to moderate her gun stance to placate McCarthy. Expect a lovefest after a KG vote on some gun regulation or other.
Brien Jackson
Paterson outmaneuvered Kennedy. He wanted to pick an "upstater," and so he just waited Kennedy out. With no one pressuring him to appoint her, and with everyone turning their guns on her (or the appointment process in general) he just had to wait. She collapsed on herself and Paterson got to go with his choice.
Say what you want about David Paterson, the guy knows how to handle the machine.
burnspbesq
@cleek:
I said "Thruway," Not "Northway." As in between Kingston and Saugerties, not between Glens Falls and Lake George Village.
A Hidell
Brien Jackson:
And Puma-central thanks him from the bottom of what passes for their hearts.
burnspbesq
@Paul L.:
So did Kirsten Gillibrand. Last I checked, Dartmouth was still in the Ivy League.
burnspbesq
@A Hidell:
Because the Democrats would like to hold the seat beyond 2010, ya big silly. Or are you looking forward to being represented in the Senate by Peter King?
Phoenix Woman
@A Hidell:
In other words, we wanna smear KG by association but we got nothin’. Yawn.
Phoenix Woman
@burnspbesq:
No kidding. Anyone who thinks that Caroline Kennedy wouldn’t have faced any primary opponents is kidding themselves, especially after that glass jaw she so prominently displayed. Her only hope would have been to be the last person standing after her rivals took each other out — kinda like what happened with John Kerry when Lieberman, Gephardt and the rest all ganged up on Howard Dean in Iowa in December 2003 and January 2004. And then she’d go on to be easy meat against Peter King in 2010.
tavella
Hidell, dude, while I’m not thrilled with Gillibrand’s relative conservatism, Kennedy sank her nomination all by herself. She neither was impressive in interviews nor did she show any sign of wanting to do the sort of footwork all over the state that getting re-elected will require.
Phoenix Woman
@swarty:
That’s why I suspect that her CD may wind up being the one picked to go bye-bye after the 2010 census.
A Hidell
Pheonix woman:
Not a big fan of association politics, so I understand what you say here. In this case, however, I think the association matters. Gillibrand’s pop is the source of her fundraising ability. She is very good at fundraising. Those money sources are what Paterson is hoping to tap through this appointment. This is the way pay for play looks when it isn’t done by a goon like Blago. And that is why I brought it up. Paterson is potentially attaching his name to a developing fundraising scandal.
Patrick
The idea that a Democrat from NY has to be to the right in laughable. Obama’s margin in NY was equal to his margin in Illinois. Schumer is hardly on par with Evan Bayh. Using Obama’s turnout and fund raising model, it will be hard for Republicans to compete in NY anymore.
Ben S.
@DougJ: Are you currently at U of R? Because I am too!
TR
Someone should explain to Larry that congressional districts are generally determined by population. Her upstate district probably has just as many people in it as Jerry Nadler’s in NYC.
cleek
but again, not a large single city. and, while it might include some relatively dense areas in Dutchess Co., it also includes giant swaths of dairy farms and protected parkland. it really is small town farm country.
@burnspbesq: heh. so you did. oops. :)
Mark Adams
TRUE STORY: Visiting family in Albany from my home in Cleveland they called me the "Hick from Ohio." This after we were done with the hay ride at my cousin’s farm. They had no idea how many miles I would have to drive to see a cow, and they raised them.
Upstaters can be snooty.
Will
Who cares what the fucking PUMAs think? If I went around forming my opinions in response to what the 20 stupidest people in America say, I’d end up even dumber than them.
If Gillebrand wants to move to the left now that she’s representing the whole, much more liberal state, instead of one small, very conservative district, that’s fine by me. In fact, it’s pretty smart politics.
kay
@cleek:
in this case, it’s a little accurate. there isn’t a city larger than 30K in her district.
She’s not running in her district, she’s running state-wide. I don’t have any problem with her. I don’t have a dog in this race. What I’d hate to see is this myth to take hold: that Democrats have to have mythical "rural cred" to run state-wide in a place like New York.
There may be lots of good reasons she was chosen. The reason proffered shouldn’t be "because Republicans vote for her".
I live in a rural county in Ohio. I predicted Sherrod Brown was too liberal to win state-wide. I was wrong. It’s sloppy thinking, "rural v urban", and it plays into every stupid stereotype about both rural voters and Democratic candidates.
She wins in a red House district. Great. But, that’s not a reason to back her.
Ron
@Napoleon:
I now live in the Finger Lakes region. (Right on the top of Seneca). It’s a beautiful area. Much of upstate NY is.
kay
@Patrick:
That’s the narrative I don’t like. Does this analysis apply to Illinois? Downstate Illinois is like a different state than the Chicago area. California? Many rural districts in California. There are lots of rural/suburban/small town House districts in every blue state, and Democrats win in some of them.
I’d hate to see statewide Democratic candidates chosen on the basis of how many Republican voters they manage to persuade in a House district, particularly in a reliably blue state.
Ron
@JR: On what do you base your comments that she’s a DINO? Because she’s pro-gun? I don’t get this. She has some conservative views on a couple of issues, but hardly overall a conservative. Yes, she’s pro-gun and anti-immigration and somewhat moderate fiscally. Frankly given the choice between someone who’s pro-gun a bit more than I’d like and someone who wants to take too many rights away from gun owners I’d go with the pro-gun person. The 2nd amendment is part of the constitution too.
DougJ
@Ben S.
Yes.
maxbaer (not the original)
@Brien Jackson: Bill Clinton came to Glens Falls campaigning for Gillibrand in 2006 when she was first elected.
scruncher
@4jkb4ia:
I can’t believe Federer pulled that off, with some help from Berdych. I think del Potro might be able to beat him though. The only men’s player who has looked unstoppable so far is Nadal. Safina-Dokic should be fun. I like Safina, but Dokic is the Cinderella story on the women’s side.
Comrade grumpy realist
Another Upstater here. (Ithaca, Cornell, all that jazz.)
I think the main detestation a lot of us Upstaters have for NYC (and Ithaca is about as liberal a place as you can find) is for the following:
a) the tendency for those in Noo Yawk City to disclaim everything outside of NYC, period (not just Upstate)
b) the continual bitching and moaning from NYC about the "hickdom" of those of us Upstate, no matter what. (In spite of the fact that we have Nobel laureates, world-class research centers, cutting-edge technology, fantastic music festivals and music departments, etc., etc., and so forth)
c) the hordes of idiots swarming out from NYC during hunting season who fondly imagine they’re Big Hunters and know what to do with a gun.
Svensker
@MyOpinion:
Signed and sent. The death penalty must go.
Bony Baloney
MyOpinion-
Times have changed. I thought Amnesty wasn’t supposed to whip up the punters inside the affected country. "Your Excellency the Governor of Texas: Please don’t execute the guy who kidnapped, tortured and killed sixteen high school cheerleaders."
Shooting your wad is like dropping your car keys in molten lava: dude, they’re gone.
Why not ask Colin Powell to plead your case in the UN General Assembly? You’d totally double your cred. An innocent man is going to die and his blood is on you*. Have a nice day!
*Accusation not valid if you drop Amnesty like a bad habit and put your support into any of a dozen more useful charities, e.g. Global Citizens for American War Crimes Trials.
An Outhouse
"give a shit about the cow people"
As a life long Western New Yorker who lives in the woods between Buffalo and Rochester, I could not agree more.