So all this debate about what is and what is not in the stimulus bill, and it sort of seems like with this report, the Stimulus Bill should write itself:
Because decades of underfunding and inattention have endangered our nation’s infrastructure, $2.2 trillion in repairs and upgrades is needed over the next five years to meet adequate conditions. That’s the conclusion of ASCE’s new 2009 Report Card for America’s Infrastructure, released today, which assigns an overall grade of D to the nation as well as individual grades in 15 infrastructure categories. Since ASCE’s last assessment in 2005, there has been little change in the condition of America’s roads, bridges, drinking water systems, and other public works. With the nation’s infrastructure receiving renewed attention from the White House, Congress, and the public as a vital part of an economic stimulus package, the Report Card offers informed guidance from professional engineers on where funds would best be spent.
If we are going to piss away a trillion or so, why not get something out of it.
And yes, while I am generally disgusted at the Republican opposition to the stimulus bill, because it is pretty obvious their opposition is rooted in little more than political opportunism, I am not sold on the current stimulus bill and seriously doubt it will accomplish anything. I am pretty much of the opinion we have passed the point of no return and are on the way to the bottom, and nothing is going to stop the slide. What should be the focus is restructuring the foundation once we crash completely, and making sure we put in place regulations and rules so that this never happens again.
But back to the point- if we are going to piss away trillions, I would like some bridges, roads, and other things that can serve us for the next century. I find it appalling that there is no real money for high speed rail or mass transit. Why are we not re-doing the entire power grid and throwing up nuclear plants?
We may be a “wealthy” nation, but we seriuosly have third world governance.
*** Update ***
Clearly the Republicans are right. What the stimulus bill needs are more tax cuts for this guy:
Trickle down, bitches.
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[…] Harpers by way of Sully by way of the comments, this […]
DougJ
A C+ for solid waste, not bad.
David
I’m coming around to a modified Republican point of view:
We’d better spend ourselves into a massive debt the way we want, and let the Republicans figure out how to get us out of it, and spend it on our priorities.
Otherwise, in the Republican version of pouring our treasure into the sand, we get the feudal system back, and we have nothing to show for it.
So, let the spending begin. Let the concern trolls in the Republican party, who put us permanently into debt to China, figure out how to take care of this later.
El Cid
We could all come up with explanations, but there’s certainly a level at which I wonder how in the hell we are so cowardly and bereft of vision so as to miss out on this opportunity — yes, a political and moral opportunity — to rebuild and the transform the energy and economic and transportation and educational infrastructure of this nation.
sgwhiteinfla
Because we are also going to have an "energy" bill later. Remember this bill is supposed to address the crisis in the economy and President Obama has already said its just one leg of the stool. A pretty good case could be made that high speed rail, mass transit and nuclear should be in the bill, but I think what you would find is that the Republicans would latch on to those because they are not projects that are "shovel ready" and you have already seen what they will do when it even appears the money won’t be
burnedspent fast enough.Not My Fault
I disagree entirely that the bill should write itself.
The above grades seem to include quite a lot of bias as to how thing s "should be"
Aviation is D but Rail is C-?? I guess pervasive but painful is seen as worse than completely falling apart.
The intertubes don’t even make the list??
If we want to try to build nostalgialand, then yes, lists like this are a good guide to where we should spend to get the country back in the future.
Bigger thinking is needed. If all we get for the money is back to 1960, then yes, we have pissed it away.
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
Isn’t that what Obama and most people are saying? The aim of the stimulus bill isn’t to prevent the recession (it’s too late for that anyway); it’s to ameliorate the damage.
If unemployment stays under 10%, if we don’t end up in a depression, and if the economy begins to recover by the end of 2011, then the bill has probably done it’s job.
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Ugh
I’ve said before, the U.S. is pretty much just as corrupt as the third world, except our corruption takes place at the highest level of the goverment, in the halls of congress and in executive favor granting, rather then in the form of you having to bribe the clerk at the local DMV to get your drivers license issued.
Michael D.
Via Sullivan:
It must be painful being that stupid…
John Cole
@Not My Fault: Even in futurama, they need levees, schools, roads, hazardous waste disposal, wastewater management, etc.
mitch
How come the Democrats aren’t out there screaming Republicans hate America, and that they put politics ahead of country?
Rick Taylor
Absolutely no question about it. Plus with the world is running out of cheap oil, it’s past time we had a decent public transport system. Can we work patriotism into this? Why aren’t more American’s upset we’re becoming a second rate country when it comes to our bridges, roads, rail, etc? Why aren’t more upset that something like Katrina could destroy an American city?
I haven’t been following the discussion closely, so I’m not sure how much of it is infrastructure. Some of these projects might take a while to get started, which means you’d want spending that would take effect quicker as well. But it’s looking like this slump is going to last a long time, so we should get started on as much of this as soon as possible.
And isn’t it fascinating that we live in a time where supporting spending on infrastructure is makes you a liberal (except of course for supporting nuclear power plants; conservatives can still get behind that).
mitch
Great point by big-media Matt:
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
John, remember all those Dirty Fucking Hippies and how they were right about Iraq and sundry other issues?
Trust them on nuclear. The bill down the line for all that nuclear waste is too. fucking. high. Yes, redo the power grid, but with emphasis on wind and solar, not technologies which create known hazards that will build up over time.
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amorphous
HOLY SHIT! WE PASSED! WE PASSED! academicprobationmaybebut WE PASSED!
TheFountainHead
I have to say, the more I read about this bill–its proponents, its opposition, what it will do, what it won’t do, how fast, and how much–I keep coming to the following conclusion: It doesn’t matter in the slightest. Pass something. Anything. We’re so far down the hole right now that doing anything, making any progress legislatively, is vital.
"We’re pooched, but we’re trying not to be!" is so much better than "We’re pooched and our government is busy whinging about how pooched we are and how it’s all the other side’s fault."
SGEW
I think Marc "I Do Not Have Any Personal Opinions, Honest" Ambinder nailed it today, in his arguments as for why the G.O.P. should support the stimulus package (politically speaking, not on, you know, the merits).
Key line (imho):
I love that guy.
itsbenj
has anyone seen Jon Stewart’s interview with Gwen Ifill last night? he has a brilliant suggestion for bailout / stimulus money which I haven’t yet heard or thought of a good reason to oppose. basically, the idea is that people apply for the bailout money based on their level of consumer debt. the government gives people the funding, and people pay their debts. this fills the bank coffers back up, gets credit flowing, people eliminate debt and are immediately helped economically by gaining monthly income as a result of paying down debt, its win win win all around.
Conservatively Liberal
I want a thorough accounting of any stimulus money that is paid out to private firms and I want assurances that only a SMALL FAIR PROFIT is allowed from that money. I don’t want companies lining up to rake in the cash while they are shoveling it out the back door and into their private accounts. No bullshit padding to rip off the public. If anyone is found to be ripping the system off then prosecute the shit out of them.
It should be enough for them that their businesses are still in business. Now is not the time for profit taking, not when it is public money.
Free for alls are the specialty of the Republican party. I am demanding better from the Democrats. If anything I am hoping that the bitching on the right side of the aisle will keep the left side on their toes (and their noses clean) and allow a clear accounting of expenditures.
Juan del Llano
Hell, yes!
[crickets]
AkaDad
I can solve the infrastructure problem with two words.
Tax cuts.
TheFountainHead
@itsbenj: Huge pitfalls there. How do you determine total debt vs. assets? More importantly, do you bail out the guy who has huge debt because he’s been just yanking equity out of his home like it’s his own personal bank and taking on loans he could never possibly repay in the first place?
John Cole
@itsbenj: So basically, the government chucks a bunch of change at idiots like that woman in the Ben Stein piece the other day so she can pay down her debts and continue running her failed business and taking day trips to thespa.
Yeah. That idea will pass.
JGabriel
itsbenj:
(All together now, in a sing-songy voice:) Moral hazard.
@John Cole:
Of course, when you put it that way, it doesn’t sound all that different from what the gov’t is already doing for the financial industry. Except that the recipients would be a lot more sympathetic.
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Evinfuilt
I want John Stewarts trickle up theory to be tested. I believe the Romans tried it a few times, and it made the people very happy.
It would also show that those rich people still are in debt (due to their modern techniques of selling debt) while the poor/middle-class can be free of debt.
Comrade Darkness
@Conservatively Liberal: "I want a thorough accounting of any stimulus money that is paid out to private firms and I want assurances that only a SMALL FAIR PROFIT is allowed from that money. I don’t want companies lining up to rake in the cash while they are shoveling it out the back door and into their private accounts. No bullshit padding to rip off the public. If anyone is found to be ripping the system off then prosecute the shit out of them."
This is why carefully constructed payroll tax relief/tax refund has a better chance of working properly. You give small firms a break on their current payroll taxes for a year, and a refund on payroll taxes paid on any new employees they add. Harder to shovel it on through into a country club membership it since soc sec numbers are attached to all of it and we all know how good the Bushies got our government at datamining/spying. Let’s put those skills to real use.
Evinfuilt
I’m a DFH, and I want Nuclear. Waste is just another word for recyclable material.
Now go read this, The Liquid Fluoride Thorium Paradigm, and understand that we can have our cake and eat it too ;)
TenguPhule
For starters, because it’s a bad idea.
Consider how much nuclear safety has gone DOWN since Reagan.
Now try to picture those same people who fucked up everything putting up nuke cookers in your backyard.
TenguPhule
Wrong.
Nuclear waste also includes all the stuff the fuel contaminates during its life cycle. Still dangerous, but not useful for recycling as fuel.
JGabriel
Evinfuilt:
Ok, I just read it. It sounds intriguing.
But there are some questions: the Thorium up converts to U233, which is re-usable for the fuel cycle. Then what? What’s the waste product of U-233? The essay isn’t clear on that, but it looks like there would still be a waste removal and storage issue. There seems to be a suggestion that the waste would be smaller and less dangerous, but it’s not really clear on that issue.
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The Moar You Know
@Evinfuilt: What a great article. I, too, am a cleaned-up DFH and am extremely pro-nuclear.
TenguPhule
Fixed.
Birdzilla
The demacratic simumus bill is so full of pork it oinks
Gus
In Republican mythology, lowering the tax rate magically leads to increased tax revenues, and the press has let that one go by for years, so yes. SATSQ.
gex
@JGabriel: Seconded. The DFH’s have a track record that no pundit can match. Spying on domestic leftist groups? Check. Iraq justification total BS? Check. Environment? Food safety? Economic regulation? Check. Check. Check. The problem with nuclear is that if it goes wrong, wrong can be very, very bad.
gex
@itsbenj: The right will rediscover the phrase "moral hazard" if you help actual people. Somehow it isn’t a moral hazard to reward failing banks billions.
Litlebritdifrnt
I have been saying this for years, about the infrastructure in this country that is. Here in Eastern North Carolina the power goes out when a squirrel farts. My mother was disgusted beyond belief to discover (when we moved into our house 17 years ago) that we had a septic tank instead of proper sewage service. (If you can imagine Queen Victoria shrilly saying "it goes into a HOLE IN THE GROUND?" then you get the idea). The shocking lack of mass transit and rail service is also incredibly short-sighted. I am a tree-hugger of the first order, but my dear departed Daddy helped build the Nuclear Power Station in Heysham (near my home town) and as far as I am aware they haven’t had any problems in the 20 odd years it has been operating. Damn it even the roads around here are not properly cambered so that the rain runs off and whenever there is a heavy rain storm the roads are like ponds. I agree, if they are going to throw money around then at least throw it at something that will have this country on the right track once the dust settles.
Ash Can
@Birdzilla: LOLZ!
John O
John, I tried to explain the very same thing to Minority Leader Boehner on MTP last weekend, but he clearly wasn’t listening, nor was Gregory.
I think they’re both in the tank for tax cuts.
Damned at Random
If you are serious about doing nukes, this is the terrorist-safe way to do it- small underground reactors – to get the fuel, you need a backhoe and crane (that won’t attract any attention)- and incidentally, a series of centrifuges for enrichment after you make your escape. No possibilty of accidental thermal runaway, no moving parts and good luck flying an aircraft into one. Waste is still a problem, but most of the other nuke downside is much reduced.
http://www.techrockies.com/story/0017490.html
Scott de B.
This is plain wrong. The nuclear industry is very safe. People get hung up on Three Mile Island, but that was 30 years ago! It’s like saying that computing power has gone down since the Apple II. Modern nuclear plants are robust, safe and clean when compared to competing technologies. Other liberal democracies — France, Germany, Finland — are way ahead of us in this area.
Sure, the waste is an issue (open Yucca Mountain!), but no more so than coal and gas plants. Nuclear plants don’t emit greenhouse gases.
Wind and solar are nice, but they won’t provide a majority of our power requirements within our lifetime.
TenguPhule
Except for the industries own reports that their people are literally sleeping on the job, their security is a fucking joke and that they’re letting the waste build up in their plants because they have no option for disposal.
TenguPhule
Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that the waste will not leak out and endanger major concentrations of human life for the next 10,000 years?
Laura W
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Yeah, but it’s quiet, safe, clean and very, very purty.
Decisions have their consequences.
Original Lee
Maybe we could help employ some more tax analysts and lawyers to help deal with this leaky balloon:
"Using data filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, GAO determined that 83 of the 100 largest publicly traded corporations and 63 of the 100 largest federal contractors maintain subsidiaries in 50 jurisdictions listed as tax havens or financial secrecy jurisdictions." This list includes some recipients of TARP funds.
Now those are some tax cuts the GOP can believe in, you betcha.
Gregory
@DougJ:
Especially considering all the bullsh!t the GOP has been producing over the past eight years.
bago
There’s a difference between our existing reactors, modern reactors, and future reactors.