I have been reading the Daily Howler for years now. Some times I agreed with him, some times I did not, most of the time I misspelled his name. Over the years, though, I never really understood his constant outrage over the treatment Al Gore got in 2000. If you have read him for a while, as I have, you will notice it always comes up sooner or later, and I never understood it and sometimes made jokes about it in the comments section here and elsewhere.
Until now. The past few weeks, DougJ’s frequent posts about the WaPo chat rooms and other encounters with the chattering classes have been really eye-opening. His most recent post, in which Ruth Marcus creates a false equivalency to the eight year crime spree we just endured with some woman not paying a couple hundred in taxes really just sums up how twisted the conventional wisdom is in DC.
I know many of you keep saying we should just ignore the talking heads and the chattering classes, and we should just tune them out, but that is ridiculous. We can’t. They control the debate, and their silliness, their inconsequential bullshit, and their tit for tat false equivalencies are really destroying this nation. I got a phone call last night from someone, and the gist of the conversation was “Well, so much for hope and change. That didn’t take long. How about Obama’s performance officer not paying her taxes, either?” This wasn’t an uneducated, uninformed person- this is someone who follows the new, which is precisely the problem.
Don’t get me wrong- I think it is insane these three candidates were not vetted better, but what is driving me truly and utterly to the brink of madness is the notion that the sins of these people is somehow on par with the real sins of the past eight years. The “shoe on the other foot” comment from Marcus almost made me spit up. Of course I got that phone call last night, and the reason I did was because HE IS INFORMED, at least by the standards of the day. He reads the newspapers and watched the nightly news shows on the cable networks. When you are getting your information from folks like Ruth Marcus, what could possibly go wrong?
The problem is who is informing us with what. Our media is simply failing us. Why have they not asked the Republicans how tax cuts are going to provide jobs? Why are they not laughing openly when the Republicans bring up capital gains tax cuts as part of a stimulus package. Why are they not asking the Republicans to explain how infrastructure spending is not stimulus? Why are they pretending this woman’s minor tax oversight is on par with outing a CIA agent or letting tens of thousands of people soak for a week in New Orleans. Why are they gleefully reporting about Joe the Plumber giving economic advice to the House republicans while their colleagues are writing about the Republicans being unified in opposition to the stimulus and putting two and two together and realizing that the opposition to the stimulus from Republicans is based on the deep thoughts of a drug addled radio host and a guy who installs toilets?
You can call me naive all you want, and I know I have a habit of falling for BS talking points, but I guess it is finally clear to me- it really is all just a game to these people. We’re all Bob Somerby now.
Xanthippas
Hilarious.
Michael D.
I hope no one EVER takes any criticism I make of Obama as being in ANY way equivalent to any criticism I had of the Bush administration.
Most commenters here will criticize Obama at some point or another, but I believe they will do it in good faith.
Gus
The problem phrase is "by the standards of the day." If your friend gets all his news from traditional media sources, he is woefully uninformed
Zifnab
You’re doing all you can do, John. You’ve got a blog. It’s got a readership. You’re staying sane and you’re calling people on their bullshit.
Your commenters like to think we helped you here and, in many ways, we see this whole thing as a pay-it-forward with you picking up the bigger microphone and saying what so many folks have been saying for years. This is endless bullshit and it needs to stop.
And that’s what the entire blogging game is about. People talked about it replacing the news media. That’s insane. No one from Balloon Juice is going to pull a Sam Wurzlebacker and report on the Gaza Strip. But when the news gets back home – about casualties and political infighting and he-said-she-said – you need the politically aware people to read up on the shit so not-so-politically aware folks don’t have to. The bloggers are about supplementing and (hopefully) replacing the current crop of talking heads. Because the current crop of talking heads constantly get it wrong. And we need people who can dissect a very busy world, highlight problems that need to be addressed, and occasionally throw up a cat blog for our entertainment.
And you’re doing a good job. And we thank you for that.
Crust
When did you ever misspell Somersby’s name?
jc
John Cole
"respects the first George Bush"
"thinks Nancy Pelosi is a good leader"
"Doesn’t understand the fuss about Gore in 2000"
To me
John Cole is a fucking idiot.
Al Swearengen
Exactly, it’s all a big, infantile, hilarious game to Rush Limbaugh’s Republican party. I just saw some dipshit Republican asshole on another blog chortlin’ about how Palin is so great cuz she really riles the liberals up.
They are morons and assholes of the first degree, deserving nothing but scorn and ridicule.
DougJ
I recognize the distinction. And I think it’s important for us to criticize Obama about things like the “bad bank” idea and so on, if we think these are bad ideas.
But it’s astounding to me that the media makes so little effort to distinguish between 3.5 billion dollar wars that kill thousands and $500 tax mistakes.
IncandenzaH
Somerby does have a Gore fixation, but what it illustrates is just how far the media *hasn’t* come, since then. He’s great at resurrecting the Gore B.S., in order to provide context to what the same reporters are doing (or not) today.
Bernie
I really don’t know what is to be done about this problem. The Beltway media just recites GOP talking points verbatim. Whenever a Democrat tries to explain by using "boring" facts and figures, they seem to get riduculed by assholes like Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough as "elist" or "ivory towered eggheads". They are either too lazy or too stupid to fact check these fucking liars. Maturity wise, these fuckers are permanently stuck in the adolescent phase.
John Cole
jc: Go to hell. I like the first Bush. He wasa good man, and lost an election in 1992 precisely because he did the right thing on the economy. I may not agree with everything he did, but he was a war hero and a good man.
Nancy Pelosi seems to be doing ok, but it is too early to tell.
And only an idiot would conflate the general fuss about Gore/Bush 2000 and Bob Somerby’s long time anger over the MEDIA treatment of Gore in 2000, which is the topic here.
Are you the jackass who sent me the ranting and incoherent email a couple weeks back about the first Bush?
4jkb4ia
If David Leonhardt is "the media", he is doing a good job. He has not fallen for any of the Republican BS that I remember. But he is in the wrong section of the paper. And Paul Krugman is doing a better job.
I find it very easy to tune out most of what is on cable due to the stupidity factor. (I watch all of Sirota’s clips)
With the decline of newspapers, the Internet is becoming the best place to get detailed information, especially about huge bills like this.
Ash Can
Exactly. The risk is too great, and the resulting damage too severe. Early this morning, on another thread, someone quoted — approvingly — Maureen Dowd wisecracking about how Bush Jr. learned of a disaster while reading to children, and Obama took a break from a disaster by reading to children. I fucking lost it. Just the thought of anyone equating, in any way, shape, or form, 9/11 with a couple of appointees admitting they screwed up on their taxes made me want to choke the living shit out of someone. And this is a NEW YORK writer? Why her editor didn’t kick her office door in and scream at her until she hid under her desk sobbing is beyond me.
kay
@Michael D.:
Most commenters here will criticize Obama at some point or another, but I believe they will do it in good faith.
I took yours in good faith. It’s sort of silly to continue to insist that Obama is never assessed harshly by Democrats, or voters, or whomever. The man is called on the carpet about every twenty seconds, and that’s among his most vocal supporters.
He’s been in office two weeks, and I could make a long list of objections. Just today, by my count, there are three specific and vehement complaints.
Daschle, stimulus, media operation. I don’t think you should stop, though. It’s fine.
Waingro
Somerby has done good work, but dear god what a pedantic, sectarian jack-off that guy can be sometimes. And that turgid prose- ‘Dear commenters, try to believe he writes like that!’
Rick Taylor
Love canal. Invented the Internet. He claimed to be the inspiration for character in a movie. Look for the union label. Al Gore has a problem with the truth.
I remember. The media embellished a narrative, Al Gore was a serial prevaricator, even as Bush told the most outlandish stories about his tax proposals and their likely impacts without them batting an eye. They were bored when Gore talked about policy, too lazy to fact check Bush’s claims, yet loved to pass on the latest hoot of Al Gore telling a tall one, even as they generally proved to be either highly exaggerated or without foundation.
With a press like that it’s not surprising we got the leadership we did over the last eight years. And the result’s speak for themselves. In that sense I’ve been Bob Somerby for eight years.
Nevertheless, by now I think getting mad doesn’t accomplish much. Ok, the press our vapid, clueless, the game is rigged. So we have to deal with that. We go to political war with the press we have, not the press we wish we had. Obama did a good job of fighting the fight during the primaries, and I’d like to see more of that now. He wasn’t always pitch perfect, but he at least responded quickly and strongly to distortions, he didn’t sit back and expect the press or anyone else to do it for him. Yes it’s galling that a politician has to play these games and can’t focus only on what the most effective policy is, but that’s the world we live in.
srv
Uh, well, people like Olbermann are, and Serious Dems like the folks here whine about how insufferable he is.
Ruth is just repeating her talking points, and if Obama or Reid had some for her, I’m sure she’d regurgitate them also. There have already been a few journalists ranting about how incompetent the Obama press office is. Maybe they can just make stuff up out of thin air, like bloggers do.
satby
Oh thank you John.
I honestly can’t listen to the crap that spews on either network or cable teevee anymore: the mindless tit for tat drivel, and brain-sucking equivalencies, and repetition of talking points without any substance.
You encapsulated it perfectly. The American media has failed this country for many years, and there’s no way that it’s not a deliberate strategy to keep us ignorant. And when it’s pointed out to them how they have failed, the reply (see Gregory, David) is that they’re neutral and people are looking at them in a partisan way.
I hate what has happened to this country, and I hate how much the media enabled and abetted.
Ninerdave
@Bernie:
…and therein lies the problem. The GOP and associated nutters are kings of outrage and creating a narrative that the media can sink it’s teeth into. The Dems haven’t learned this skill.
The problem is the "news" media is not there to inform anymore, it’s there to make a profit. It does this by entertaining. Sensationalism sells, insightful debate does not.
4jkb4ia
@Ash Can:
The honeymoon is officially over. Dowd is the leading indicator on such matters.
DougJ
Does Somerby remind anyone else of TheHatOnMyCat? (I don’t know whether THOMC himself would be offended or complimented by the comparison.)
Ninerdave
@srv:
He is, I can’t watch him anymore. He’s a pompous ass. It’s mostly rehash of what I get from blogs anyway, so I’m not missing anything.
demkat620
Chuck Todd is too much a horse race kind of guy to be covering the White House. Now he’s whining about be asked to do his job. Nice.
You nailed it John. You are my hero. :)
Stuck
A sense of proportion has been replaced with Unibalance. Or balance with true lies of equal weight.
IncandenzaH
Also, I think I read somewhere that Somerby has some kind of personal connection to Gore. Friend or former staffer? Don’t recall. But the media’s treatment of him sure did fire up Somerby for years and years… and whoever wrote "turgid" about Somerby’s prose is dead-on! But interesting nonetheless.
Joshua Norton
Current condensed repiggie meme:
Between Daschle and Blagojevich, Obama’s administration is the most corrupt government in American history.
Doesn’t matter that Blago wasn’t even part of Obama’s administration. The verdict is in, and the Obama presidency has failed. He came in here promising to change the tone, and he trashed the place, and it wasn’t his place.
He promised to reach across the aisle, and look what he’s done so far: nothing but vicious attacks on Rush Limbaugh and foot-dragging on the tax cuts Americans need. It’s altogether disgraceful, really, and we’re about to lose our patience with him. We can only take so much, you know.
Hey, don’t take it from me—ask David Broder and Chuck Todd. They’ll tell it to you straight. We’ve built this party on a firm foundation: mocking Obama for telling people to keep their tires inflated, giving creationists and flat-earthers control over U.S. science policy, and reminding hardworking men and women that Al Gore is fat.
rmp
We’re All Bob Somerby Now.
Sad but true.
BTW, is Bob ever happy?
DougJ
True. And that’s a good thing, since most people don’t read those blogs. I think he’s a good broadcaster and journalist even if I don’t watch his show.
DougJ
College roomate.
Napoleon
His piece in the sunday NYT called The Big Fix
was very good.
I think he may have been his college roommate.
smiley
@IncandenzaH: I think it’s more like college roommates at some point or something like that.
Edit: you gotta be fast around here.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Many so-called reporters are now people who were hired based on their ability to articulate their opinions and take notes at dictation speed. Fact checking is for geeks. When you move over to visual media they just have to look good, they don’t have to be clear.
So far as newspapers are concerned the ones that are still around will either figure out readers want real reporting and hire people capable of doing so or they’ll go under.
And Jesus Christ, I stayed home today and flipped past CNN. How long have they been doing that split screen posting of e-mail messages bullshit during WH pressers?
Foxhunter
@Rick Taylor:
Spot on, Rick. But you left out alGore’s Naomi Klein/earth tone problem (as perpetuated by the NYC DQ herself, MoDo).
Just Some Fuckhead
I can’t imagine how such a comparison would be flattering. I’m here if you need a hug, Teez.
mistermix
Somerby is often right, but he’s also long-winded and tends to be a bit tedious and humorless.
DougJ is doing the same kind of work but he keeps it short, sweet and adds a bit of humor.
ricky
I appreciate your salute to Somerby and the Howler. His work is fabulous. My only problem with his posts resides in his Gore fascination, and I do get his point. Unfortunately, his assertion that the media mavens create a narrative and stick to it is undermined by the fact that he tries to weave everything happening now into his own narrative, which is they way liberals ignored or aided and abetted the press treatment of Gore. As a result he sometimes dismisses valid points made by one person or another on the basis of what they once had to say about Al Gore.
His stuff on education is superb. As a former teacher, though, he should know we children get bored when almost every topic has to be presented not with just a link back to the first days lesson, but with a regurgitation of the entire lesson. Telling us kiddies we just don’t get it is a tad insulting, too.
demkat620
Actually, it’s called balance and reflection. When Democrats are in charge we see more Republicans on TV and in print to balance out the liberals in Washington. And when Republicans are in charge we see more Republicans on TV and in print to reflect the will of the people.
See, heads they win, tails you lose.
David
Apparently Republicans don’t understand the "loyal" part of "loyal opposition."
DougJ
Thanks, old friend.
ThymeZone
Totally agree. But there’s a light at the end of this tunnel and it is not an approaching snowplow.
The light is, the people figure the stuff out despite the crummy media. They figured out the war despite a total government and media con job. They figured out the campaign last year despite the media’s best efforts to fuck it all up. They elected the smart choice by ten million votes.
The media fail us, but so what? The fact is, the media, as we know it, is becoming less relevant every day. Network evening news went from being THE broadcast standard to almost total irrelevance in a few years, replaced by cable. Cable is now on the same trajectory.
The people are figuring out that the key element in the information tide is the receiver of the information, not the sender. The receiver learns how to seek out multiple sources of information, to correlate and cross check, to listen with a cynical and critical ear, to take with grains of salt, to read between the lines. The consumer of information is getting smarter and harder to bamboozle.
And the sooner we start recognizing that, and stop worrying about what the morans are doing today, the faster the process will move on down the road.
I think Obama gets this. I think he talks right over the noise machine and the people mostly get it. I think he is reinventing communication with the people in an era of exploding communication opportunity.
Thoughts?
The Grand Panjandrum
I’m curious. What was your response to this person?
Word.
Ninerdave
@DougJ:
Problem (for me) is he comes solely from a left wing perspective (and he’s pompus). There is nothing wrong with that, however I prefer my analysis with some balance (of course the state of the GOP makes balance almost impossible these days). I try to temper the blogs I read that re-enforce my world view with some from a conservative point of view (which is basically Larison, any one have any others let me know).
What I’d give for a long form debate show between people who know their shit, with a moderator who asks intelligent pointed questions. I know it’d never sell and there aren’t many reasonable conservatives left. I can still dream can’t I?
Zifnab
@srv:
I can agree with Olbermann and consider him an obnoxious twat all in one breath. He’s got a made-for-TV attitude that makes me want to change the channel. That has nothing to do with his political opinion.
If you took Glenn Beck aside and hammered progressive ideals into that pasty little head of his, I still wouldn’t watch that guy either.
jrg
I’m with Zifnab. I can’t stand listening to the talking heads anymore, that’s why all my news comes from newspapers or text on the web (rarely from syndicated columnists).
The gassbags on the T.V. are morally and intellectually bankrupt. We should have all figured that out when the only tough questions about the start of the Iraq war came from Comedy Central. Everyone else was too chicken shit.
I’d much rather read a blog. At least I know most of you people are not being paid to feed me tripe.
John Cole
@The Grand Panjandrum: Have you seriously lost your damned mind?
Direct quote.
ThymeZone
Month or two now, and they are basically trying the same thing the newspapers tried, which is top put comments gadgets at the end of every website story to create an "interactive" feel to the medium.
This won’t work, for the same reason it is not working in the newspapers on their websites: It attracts mostly stupid comments and degrades an already failing channel.
Cable news is going the way of print news, which is downhill, and toward marginalization. To be replaced by what, as yet TBD. But it’s in a downward spiral from which it has not idea how to escape.
ThymeZone
Please send me a picture.
JenJen
Know what? It’s fucking maddening. And it’s even more maddening, just as it seems to be for you, John, when my educated, intelligent, politically-savvy friends tell me to "stop watching cable news."
WTF kind of ostrich-head response is that?
I don’t know what the answer is, but mo’ better cable TV is a step in the right direction. Keith and Rachel have carved out not just a niche, but an effective demo-sweep nightly. Killing the Countdown/Hardball repeats and install yet another mo’ better show at 10:00 would be a nice start…. MSNBC’s morning-to-midday coverage of chirpy hosts and bitter partisans is tortuous, but prime-time is probably the better area to target.
It’s better than it was two, four, eight years ago. Bob Somerby and the sadly-defunct but once-essential Media Horse filled the void in the first Bush Administration, and Olbermann and Maddow helped to fill the latter half. But it’s clearly not enough. And yes, I’m worried, too.
ThymeZone
Let me hear him play music, and I will let you know.
Nicole
Like I said on the other thread, because television’s job is to create easily absorbable drama that will keep you watching through the commercials, not to educate. While I immensely enjoyed reading the piece Digby’s site linked to yesterday on the Two Santa Clauses, and it taught me stuff I didn’t know before, it would have made boring TV. Too much backstory, not enough immediate conflict.
Which is why blogs are important. I learn so much here every day. And you all are smart and make me laugh and then the pain goes away for a little while.
jrg
You do realize that giving them eyes is the same as giving them money, right?
If you want to fight the good fight, go for it. I’d rather not let those morons get me in a tizzy, particularly if I’m rewarding them with viewership.
4jkb4ia
@Joshua Norton:
LOL
ThymeZone
Not necessary. Listen to them, and learn what there is to be learned. They are dysfunctional, but they are an information stream. Hear it and read it for what it really is, and move on to the next source, the next channel. Discern and discriminate and make distinctions and be critical.
Think of it as panning for gold. You have to run your fingers through a lot of muck to find the nuggets.
But the nuggets are there.
ThymeZone
And of course, pray for a blogsite that works and has editable posts that work. This is our dream, our quest. Someday all blogs will have software as good as what we had in the office in 1979, but that day is not here yet.
re: #54
Laura W
Be sure to tune in on Saturday nights when they throw up (pun intended) the twitter whatevers that Rick Sanchez receives on a big screen behind his big head and he reads them aloud to his audience (of two.)
ricky
To me it seems like CNN is going more the way of VH1 and resembling Pop Up Video. Cable News is going the way of MTV, which is to replace Music Videos with Jackass. Think Beck, Hannity, Greta ( or Olbermann if you like, although I’ve been a Keith fan since ESPN). It is, after all, television.
JenJen
@jrg: But I’m not a Nielsen household, and I rarely purchase products they advertise. In that sense, when I watch cable TV news, aren’t I more like a garden-variety anonymous blog commenter, save for the two-way conversation?
I’m hardly rewarding them with viewership when they don’t know I’m viewing.
The Grand Panjandrum
@JenJen:
Ain’t that the truth. Jesus I have had mornings where I wished MSNBC would bring back Imus. Jesus! At least that was supposed to be entertainment and not what was trying to pass itself off as serious journalism and punditry.
ricky
Thanks, Laura W. You reminded me of another thing I like about Olbermann. Instead of watching CNN to see Sanchez twittered I watch Olbermann to see repeats of Sanchez tased.
Jim Pharo
I’m afraid the media will never, ever — never, never, never, ever — be any better than the American people. The problem is not that the media is letting the people down. It’s that the people have let themselves down.
As long as Dick Armey can get enough people to listen to him, we’re in trouble. And the root isn’t Dick Armey — it’s those morons who listen to him. There will always be a Dick Armey looking for weak-minded people to exploit.
I really think we have gone round the proverbial bend and lost the soul of this nation, probably irretreivably. We might make a fresh start following some prolonged catastrophe, but I doubt it.
America: it’s over.
Laura W
@Laura W: Couldn’t get in quickly enuf to edit in TZ at 47.
Ninerdave
@Laura W:
Oh Good fucking God…I saw Rick Sanchez one afternoon when I was at the dentist (he has TV in the ceiling). He was "reporting" but underneath was a twitter feed. It was driving me up the fucking wall. It like being distracted by 16 year olds talking about their boyfriends.
I asked the dentist to put it on another channel, flipped up one station to Fox. What a relief.
Ninerdave
@JenJen:
You have a Tivo? You’re a Nielsen household. Tivo (and presumably others) also send out viewing data.
Rick Taylor
Just to add, the turning point for me came during the first Bush-Gore debate. I watched it with a bunch of friends, and we were jubilant. It was breathtakingly clear that George Bush was not ready to be President of the United States. He was in completely over his head. It was a mystery that the Republicans him to represent them, but after that there was not way he could ever win.
The next morning, the spin was if anything in Bush’s favor. Gore was pompous, he had sighed condescendingly. His confidence and his ability to pronounce foreign dignitaries names correctly were all part of his arrogance. I couldn’t believe it. We went down the rabbit hole and we never came out.
John, I believe that debate is still available online. If you get the chance to watch it again, I’d be fascinated to know how it looks to you now.
demkat620
What he said.
liberal
@IncandenzaH:
Yeah, and then some.
I think they were Harvard roommates or something.
headpan
John, next up, outrage fatigue. Us old-timers were there about 4-5 years ago and the Somerbys, 7 years. Now we’re all just spent and numb.
JenJen
So, Wolf Blitzer tells me that Obama just signed SCHIP.
I suspect the Red State Strike Force will have no choice now but to deploy the Granite Counter Force Reconnaissance Brigade.
WOLVERINES!!
liberal
@Nicole:
Which is why reading is important. You can absorb information off the printed page many times faster than through television.
Not that the abysmal quality of what’s on television isn’t also at issue.
Laura W
@The Grand Panjandrum:
EVERY FUXXIN’ MORNING IN MY HOUSE.
Took me years to get into his show, and man oh shit man do I miss that asshole.
(I come here in the morning instead, which is sort of similar.)
John H. Farr
No, I disagree. It’s not ridiculous, it’s sane. You can’t control other people. We can’t "make" journalists report the truth. There’s absolutely nothing one can do EXCEPT ignore them. Anything else bleeds off psychic, emotional, and physical energy one needs to get one’s own house in order (so to speak) and grow more personal power, to feel your own strength!
There’s no way to turn a turnip into a rose, but if you don’t water the plant (don’t watch commercials, don’t boost the ratings), it will die…
Of COURSE Limbaugh (etc., etc.) is an idiot. What idiot doesn’t see that? Oh right, those idiots… Well, you can’t make them be sensible, anyway. They have to find their own path, which is why I say: why not offer them another one???
Shit, works for me. Haven’t watched teevee news in 12 years.
Laura W
@Ninerdave:
I’m pretty sure that’s because 16-year-olds are the ones twittering Rick.
Sadly enough, I caught Don Lemon doing the same thing last week. I was crushed, since he’s my favorite male anchor over there. Apparently, it’s working out so well for Rick, they are making the talented one do it too. Fuckity Fuck.
liberal
@John Cole:
I didn’t like him, and I don’t consider him a good man, but there were two good thing about him:
(1) 1990 Budget Enforcement Act, a compromise between Bush 41 and Congress that is the real reason the budget deficit started to shrink under Clinton,
(2) The US president least ridiculously biased towards Israel in a long time.
qwerty42
I could tolerate the Village if they at least knew what they were doing and actually did try to view issues honestly. But most don’t; they are lazy and slipshod. They seem to hold their readers in contempt, and so make up these little morality plays in which a failure to pay $500 is the same as the destruction of(Iraq|New Orleans|the Constitution|the economy|whatever) and it all balances out. And if you say it doesn’t; that if they actually believe something like that they are in a significant way defective, then you are obviously irrational. The collapse of print media saddens me. a lot. but I might find it worthwhile if I thought they’d be on dole. That won’t happen; they will find new work elsewhere where their ignorance and indifference will be rewarded.
And as for the coverage of the Gore campaign: it was endlessly moronic. A more honorable group would have committed seppuku (or been fired). But Bush was the guy you wanted to have a beer with, so I’m probably wrong.
Rome Again
I’m here if you need a hug, Teez.
"Teez" gets all the hugs he needs from me, k?
JenJen
@The Grand Panjandrum: Seriously, is there anyone on TV more noxious than Contessa Brewer? I think not.
Well, save for the Morning
JoeZoo Crew, of course. Although I will admit to savoring that precious, precious moment not long ago where Zbigniew Brzezinski told Scarborough he ought to pick up a book and learn a fucking thing or too before flapping his ignorant gums ad nauseam.I’m paraphrasing. :-)
ThymeZone
Boy howdy. Whenever I think Maureen Dowd, I think honeymoon.
( cocks pistol, aims at head )
ThymeZone
::grin::
Rome Again
I like this idea. :)
(you knew I would, didnja?)
Rick Taylor
@ThymeZone:
I wish I could agree with you here; but with few exceptions, I think the people are clueless is ever. What happened this time is we had a great politician on our side to spell things out. It’s an unfortunate aspect of our Democracy; if you want to be President, it’s not enough to be smart or able as Gore was. You have to be a brilliant communicator as Obama is, or Clinton was. That’s just the way our democracy works. Even though I’ve been critical recently, on the whole I believe he’s a masterful politician. In so far as I’m optimistic about our future, it’s because we have him at helm, and I believe he has the capacity if anyone does to explain to the country the choices we have to make and why; and when I’m criticizing him it’s because I want to see more of what he’s proven he’s capable of. If the election had been between a mediocre Democrat and a Republican who didn’t immolate themself quite as badly as McCain did, I’m not sure we would have won. Maybe, given the economic meltdown, and our propensity for choosing Democrats over Republicans during hard times, but I’m not certain.
I keep thinking of Vincent Bugliosi’s book about OJ Simpson. In it, he excoriated the prosecution. Sure the jury decision was ridiculous, certainly they’d seen enough evidence to convict. But a competent prosecutor doesn’t depend on having a smart or competent jury; a competent prosecutor knows they have to spoon feed the jury, so even the most clueless can’t avoid where the evidence points.
So that’s how our systems works. It’s ok, so long as you have a leader who is both a competent President and able to spoon feed the people so to speak, but otherwise, not so much.
kay
@JenJen:
Conservatives are right to fear S-CHIP, if they plan on ruining the upcoming health care debate, and they do, I’m assuming. Parents love it. They talk about it the way my father and his friends talk about Medicare. Like someone threw them a lifeline.
They blocked it because they know it’s necessary, and it works. In my state, it works WELL. It’s hard to demonize something millions of people are actually using, and grateful for.
ThymeZone
Brace yourself. Clinton was impeached, and Titanic won Best Picture.
Hey, don’t shoot the messenger.
gbear
Crooks and Liars has got a post up about this issue linking to an article by former Air America CEO Doug Kreeger. This topic seems to be on a lot of people’s minds today. Good. Spread the word.
JenJen
@Ninerdave: Fair enough… I was once a Tivo-owner but have since acquired a cable DVR, since I got rid of my telephone landline. And, for the most part, I watch cable news in my non-DVR-equipped home office. Still… so what am I supposed to watch all day, Animal Planet? (as if I already don’t)
Seems hopelessly silly to me to just ignore cable news. Seems more fruitful to come to Balloon Juice and complain about it, actually. It’s not as if cable news is going away in the event I stop watching.
Rome Again
Really? Explain George W. Bush.
ThymeZone
… to get the most votes, like Gore did.
Heh.
gbear
@John H. Farr:
Have you ever dealt with crabgrass or bindweed? Sometimes when you don’t water, the lawn dies but the weeds thrive. You’ve got to pull them or poison them.
comrade rawshark
Have you read comments on Azcentral? Lots of morons it’s true but also tons of people poking holes in the awful ‘reporting’ that’s done. I’m hoping Azcentral will use it to improve the quality of their reporting. They won’t. But I can hope right? Maybe someday I won’t have to read about a ‘pit bull type’ dog attacking someone, maybe they’ll identify the breed.
John H. Farr
AND, I might add (without reading any intervening comments), just as we have no ability to control what anyone else believes, so too do I have no way of stopping anyone who wants to rant about the media.
I don’t watch ’em, but so what? :-) If you do and can’t stand the bastards, let ’em have it. Hell, all God’s chillun got shoes.
Zifnab
@Rome Again: Beer. And lots of it.
Rome Again
Careful with that Axe, Eugene!
JL
@JenJen: The puppy bowl was awesome and the kitty half time show was hilarious.
I have weaned myself off of morning joe after they mentioned that increasing food stamps would not be stimulative.
JenJen
@kay: Not being a parent, it thrills me to hear that parents support SCHIP, and moreso that it has become part of the parental dialog. One need not be a parent to support common-sense health care for children, IMO.
Thank you for providing the first bright spot in my news day, so far!! And, just to be on the safe side, keep an eye out for window-peering granite-counter brigades.
Just sayin’.
ThymeZone
Oh yeah, read em all the time. Amazingly stupid, most of them, but some good snark and factbomb stuff exposing the horrible "journalism" going on down there.
Gannett seems to have gutted the Republic and left it to be run by interns and people off the street. It’s sad, because they almost had a good newspaper going there for a while.
"Pit bull type dog." OMG, that is so funny. I was Quill and Scroll in high school. We could never have gotten away with that in my high school newspaper.
Politically Lost
Courtesy of Glenzilla today.
Wile E. Quixote
This shit has been going on for decades now. Look at McCarthy during the 1950s. He’d come out with some outrageous claim that there were X number communists in the State Department/U.S. Army and the media at the time just reported it as if it were the word of God, they were nothing more then stenographers. As far as I know not one single reporter ever asked him why the number of communists he cited kept changing. Despite the hagiography of Good Night and Good Luck it wasn’t Edward R. Murrow that bought McCarthy down, it was the Army and the US Senate. For the first few years of the Vietnam war the media of the time told Americans how wonderfully things were going, even as the body count kept ratcheting skywards.
I took a journalism class from a wonderfully cynical man named Don Pember when I was at the UW. Pember said, and he had been a reporter, that most reporters were lazy and that a reporter’s favorite story was a crime scene with a tape outline of a dead body because it was such an easy story to tell. The 24 hour news cycle has made this worse because there’s so much more airtime to fill. The emphasis on "objectivity" has made things all the worse because most people who get communications degrees and go into journalism are not only lazy, but are also stupid and have poor critical thinking skills, so they pretend to be "objective" by reporting both sides of an issue, even if one side is completely full of shit, insane or both.
DougJ
No, Islam is the light as any five-month old can tell you.
Zifnab
@JL:
I can’t tell you what stimulus is, but I’ve got about $800 billion worth of things that it isn’t. More or less, its everything a Democrat puts up for a vote.
ThymeZone
Roger that. When I see Wolf Blitzer now, I think of those scans of Teri Schiavo’s brain, with all the empty space.
It’s amazing to me that Wolf can still string together a sentence with the remnants of that brain he has left.
LongHairedWeirdo
Nod. That’s exactly the problem. The worst part is, think about what it takes to base thoughts about how to run a country based upon people who are playing things as a game.
It requires one of two assumptions:
1) it just doesn’t matter; whoever does whatever, things will be more or less the same, so you might as well win when you can, or
2) liberals (note lack of definition) are so much worse that we must use any and all available methods to stop them, no matter how sleazy, dishonest, dishonorable, etc..
Stupid, or blinded by hatred.
ThymeZone
Allahu Akbar!
Which is the modern day version of Mighty Mouse’s "Here I come, to save the day!"
Rome Again
You never told me this.
::smiles::
John H. Farr
[ahem]
As for incoming snark about not watching teevee news for the last 12 years, I know for absolutely damn certain that I’ve been on the Internet for longer than some commenters have ceased to be virgins. And just remember, if the world ends tomorrow, I’ll STILL have had more sex, drugs, and rock & roll than the average schlemiel. And while you’re at it, get off my lawn!
(Okay, get off my freakin’ sagebrush. Big diff.)
scarshapedstar
John, let me preface this by saying I know and understand full well the (apocryphal?) Ben Franklin adage about malice versus stupidity, but I really think they are just soulless, sold-out SOBs and don’t care. When I look into Wolf Blitzer’s dead eyes as he mumbles something about "Republicans, on the other hand, argue that tax cuts blah blah blah…" I don’t see anything that suggests good faith and honest debate.
I see the same look that I’d notice if I were somehow at the line of scrimmage looking into the eyes of the Cardinals’ defensive line. The Steelers huddle, the Cards glare. The Steelers come back to the line, they glare just as hard. The whistle blows, they smash into each other, pat each other on the back, and then do it again. It would be insane, were it not for the fact that it’s all a game and they all know that they’re paid six figures (mostly) to play it.
Anyway, back to Wolf. I see him, too, as basically being a human wall who’s paid to periodically jump forward and intercept… reason and dignity. Sounds harsh, but honestly, we all know the two sides of the debate. We all know what everyone’s going to say; there’s very rarely a surprise from more than one or two of the Congresscritters. Wolf could sit there with his mouth shut, playing clips of Democrats and Republicans exchanging Senate-floor speeches, and I defy anyone to highlight one instant where it would substantively change the tone of the coverage. I know sometimes Wolf points out where they disagree, but that’s usually painfully obvious from the context. I state matter-of-factly that I could offer better analysis than Wolf (and I’m just some kid) although and because that’s not what he’s there for.
Wolf’s there to look above the fray, like a referee, but I submit to you that — when he thinks no one’s looking — he jumps in the Cardinals’ defensive line! Let’s say I’m Big Ben, trying to throw a "single-payer healthcare will lower spending" touchdown pass, I betcha dollars to donuts that Wolf will be in there with his "Now let me just stop you there, because Republicans say that the Postal Service is slow, and, ipso facto, yanno, QED" facemasking. He doesn’t even have to think about it. If I were Kurt Warner, arguing that the private sector rewards efficiency, I sincerely doubt that Wolf would sack me with the ex post hazard / profit motive play.
One might argue that the Steelers simply need a better and simpler playbook, and with that I will march this metaphor off the field, thank God, but none of these ideas are particularly complicated. Anyone who’s made a claim understands the arguments against private insurance. They might disagree with them out of principle, but they understand the arguments. And yet "they" really just never speak up for the anti-corporate side in the argument. They each have their own Hannity and Colmes, perched Looney Tunes-style on their shoulders, and Hannity wins 99% of the time. Maybe it’s simply that the real-life Hannities shout louder, but they ought to acknowledge that, rather than meekly help run up the score – d’oh!
JenJen
And, not missing an anti-SCHIP beat, heeeeeeeere’s Malkin!
CSI: Granite Countertop Division.
ThymeZone
Sorry, the link for Mighty Mouse.
RIP, Andy Kaufman.
ThymeZone
Sorry, that link was not what I thought it was. Apparently the original AK Mighty Mouse is not available?
scarshapedstar
Damn, and here I thought I was gonna be the first to spit on Wolf’s shoes…
DBrown
@Rick Taylor: You are one of the stupidist A/O’s to write here. President elect Al Gore, never said any of the wingnut talking points you so stupidly just shit out of your mouth. Give your blow jobs to russ the stupid fat liaring A/O. He’d enjoy someone of your extremely low IQ.
ThymeZone
Yeah. Mostly it was an excuse to round up people for car washes.
But those of us on the newspaper and annual staffs were expected to join and participate.
D-Chance.
That damn Liberal media is killing OUR unicorn!
BethanyAnne
"…and we all know that Crap is King"
Don Henley
anticontrarian
that right there is the crux of the matter, i think. the chattering class is too close to the game. hell, they’re part of the game. the reason the universe of discourse is so tilted in the direction of the republicans is that they’re better at playing. it’s chess to them, an amoral black vs white competition that is completely abstracted from real-world consequences (which is why they can say with a straight face that cuts in the capital gains tax will stimulate the economy and create jobs). and the chattering class is happy to go along, because they live in the same world, day-to-day, as the people playing the game. and because they’re all rich, and thus insulated from the real-world consequences of playing politics while the world goes to hell in a handbasket for the rest of us, they can (and do) applaud good moves, game-wise, regardless of the consequences in the real world of those moves.
the real question, the one i don’t yet have an answer for, is what we’re going to do about. besides bitching about how fucked up it is, that is.
Rick Taylor
@DBrown: You are one of the stupidist A/O’s to write here. President elect Al Gore, never said any of the wingnut talking points you so stupidly just shit out of your mouth
That was the point I was making when I wrote "The media embellished a narrative, Al Gore was a serial prevaricator, even as Bush told the most outlandish stories about his tax proposals and their likely impacts without them batting an eye. They were bored when Gore talked about policy, too lazy to fact check Bush’s claims, yet loved to pass on the latest hoot of Al Gore telling a tall one, even as they generally proved to be either highly exaggerated or without foundation."
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
@satby:
Which is why I continually quote Howard Beale around here. We’re not living "Network", which was thought to be an over the top satire in 1977. We’re well beyond "Network" now, and have entered "1984" territory. You can’t convince me that Rush and Sean are not the 5 Minutes Hate come to life.
Xanthippas
Sectarian?
IncandenzaH
DBrown, I think you missed Rick’s point. He was saying those were examples of media prevarication.
shep
…Bob Somerby’s long time anger over the MEDIA treatment of Gore in 2000, which is the topic here."
Somereby has been clear about the reason for that anger: it put the country in the hands of the Cheney Administration. Truly, a greater crime against this country may never have been committed.
The press, such as it is, has been broken by design for a very long time.
Anyway, welcome to the DFH.
scarshapedstar
I think the Rick Taylor/DBrown exchange is the most totally awesome example I’ve yet seen of people who agree 100% and are nevertheless clawing at each other’s eyes. It ain’t been that bad a day yet. Or ain’t it?
Jay B.
Somerby is often right, but he’s also long-winded and tends to be a bit tedious and humorless.
Long winded and/or tedious is a matter of taste. I suspect that he writes monomaniacally about the subject, and brings in the Gore/Clinton examples consistently as a way of constructing a sturdy counter-narrative. As one might notice from some of the comments, and the Washington Post chats, it sticks for those who read him. In other words, for his audience, it’s an effective learning technique.
And his prose in his dissection of the Washington media might be humorless — but, ironically, he’s a fairly successful stand up comic.
Stuck
The stuff of Democrats.
Mark
And, of course. Joe the "Plumber" was in trouble with the law for . . . Not paying taxes!
headpan
The problem with George Bush Sr. is that Junior sprang from his loins. Not sure if I can forgive him for not spooging that fateful night. Oh Bar, why did you have to be such a hot little tomato.
Rick Taylor
@scarshapedstar: I think the Rick Taylor/DBrown exchange is the most totally awesome example I’ve yet seen of people who agree 100% and are nevertheless clawing at each other’s eyes. It ain’t been that bad a day yet. Or ain’t it?
I don’t think I clawed at his eyes. Although I will admit I was tempted. :)
Denise Harmon
John,
I think most Americans, myself included, are focused on the economic meltdown right now. Our MSM provides as much insight on that right now as some airhead on Entertainment Tonight and it seems like people are relying on word of mouth and local sources to understand what is happening. I’m in Wyoming and the energy sector is laying off workers, which is what happens here when oil prices and demand go down. People here now are worried about the economy. If Obama can do something to get the economy back on track, nobody will care if he appoints Fidel Castro’s niece or the entire Gambino crime family to his cabinet. There is no other issue now except the economy and the dumba$$ MSM prattles on about meaningless drivel, as you cite.
Ward 3 Denizen
@DBrown – I am know I am just part of a middling demographic to people like David Brooks, but jeesh, you really missed the point on Rick Taylor’s post. Boy o Boy…
J. Michael Neal
Music. The TV is for sports and DVDs only.
J. Michael Neal
I have some trouble with the idea of George HW Bush as a good person. If nothing else, his claim while campaigning for congressional Republicans in 1986, that those of us who don’t believe in God can’t be good Americans disqualifies him.
mistermix
@Jay B.:
I agree that it’s probably a matter of taste. I much prefer Glenzilla, who is often judged as tedious by many. The reason I prefer Glenn over Somerby is that Glen’s critiques are almost always based on principle. Somerby seems a little envious of the fame and fortune enjoyed by his targets.
mistermix
@DougJ:
If you’d just weave in some more Belle & Sebastian references, you’d be the perfect blogger.
Rome Again
@Denise Harmon:
Personal anecdote only, but whenever TZ and I are out and about together, we constantly size up how the businesses that we patronize are doing economically. It’s a constant conversation we have. We look for signs of businesses either succeeding or failing. So far, we’re seeing the businesses that we visit succeeding, although they are doing so with upgrades and offers which are drawing in crowds.
Considering we normally spend money in small businesses/franchises, that’s a plus, so far.
It seems to be the businesses that are really failing are the almost biggest: such as Circuit City (as opposed to Best Buy), and Linens and Things (as opposed to Bed, Bath and Beyond). All of these businesses are or were suffering, only two of them still exist.
Meanwhile, our favorite local diner’s business is apparently picking up. Our local favorite mexican food establishment is always so busy we have to wait for a table and they are currently adding more dining space. Our experience seems to be that the smaller businesses are reaping the consumer dollar reward.
anticontrarian
that’s because a) they tend to be more integrated into the local economy and scene, because being small they’re rooted there more firmly than some big corporate affair, and b) they tend to have owners that work there, and do not have a parasite class attached to the economic organism that they have to support.
just a thought.
Rome Again
@anticontrarian:
I agree.
Jay B.
@mistermix:
Somerby seems a little envious of the fame and fortune enjoyed by his targets.
I never got that sense — although his frustration is plainly evident, and he’s threatened to stop doing it a number of times over the years. I think he treats his targets with the hostility and distain they richly deserve. I think what pisses him off the most is the mewling "regular Americans think X" bullshit they spew while calling Gore an elitist for talking about policy, even as they are millionaires who live in an insular world and care nothing for how X will affect Americans at all. This is the theme that ties together his Education media and his Political media critiques.
But again, milage may vary. I understand why people don’t like him, but I think he serves a vital purpose and he’s done wonders for many of us.
DougJ
@mistermix
You know, I hadn’t thought of that before, but I think that’s about right.
Don’t get me wrong: DailyHowler is a seminal blog for me, but there is a hint of something like that in it. It can be catty and bitchy at times.
Potted Plant
I don’t think that Somerby is envious of the media people.
I agree that he can be extremely repetitive about the treatment of Gore in 2000 (or, as he’d say, 1999-2000), but I would think that’s because he’s so darn frustrated that no one in the MSM will discuss the media’s role in what happened, even though it’s completely obvious to anyone who actually pays attention to the facts (as Somerby does).
Instead, we’re left with a populace full of people who (to be charitable) are too busy with other things to unlearn the false narratives spun by the media. That leads to events like Bush’s election in 2000 and 2004, and the general collapse that has occurred as a result. When this context is considered, I can’t blame Somerby for being repetitive/shrill/frustrated.
FWIW, I don’t like his education posts. I can never find any positive suggestions for how to improve teaching; all I see is criticism of the conclusions drawn by others.
SteveGinIL
I think that the best way to deal with the wingnut b.s. is head on.
For example, I think that, since McCain has jumped in and is acting as one of the spokesmen for the anti-stimulus plan, that Obama should simply challenge him to a debate on the stimulus package, HEAD ON.
A DEBATE IS THE WAY TO GO.
Positives to this:
1. It provides a forum in which to put to shame the GOP "equivalences" John is talking about.
2. Obama would chew McCain up – and his stupid talking points – and spit him out.
3. IT GETS OBAMA’S POINTS OUT THERE.
4. The audience for it would be huge – bigger than for the Presidential debates.
5. IT CREATES A NEW FORUM, ONE IN WHICH LIES CAN BE DEALT WITH IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
6. It steals the thunder from the news media, and diminishes its monopoly on informing the public.
7. AND, if Obama’s points are good, then the GOP wins – BUT IT WILL BE A FAIR FIGHT. (But Obama won’t lose.)
scarshapedstar
All I gotta say is, dogs are fighting upstairs, seems like the same shit! Chilllllllllax. Dogs! Chill! Hey, I think they chilled. Whatta the odds?
scarshapedstar
Chill like Obama, dogs! Chill like you ain’t never chilled before.
scarshapedstar
Never had a hairpiece before. But thanks!
handy
Haven’t read all the comments, but to me what is valuable about Somerby is his reminder that, as an "answer" to Republican BS, the best strategy for libs is to altogether eschew their own BS or knee-jerk anti-right narratives. Why? Because 1) It’s just wrong, but 2) it is rather ineffective since it only further muddies the discourse.
Much of the liberal blogosphere goes nutso (and rightfully so) over Rush and Hannity and NRO, but the Howler seems to be one of the few voices out there making the broader point that our "nominal allies" in the press are really our bigger problem.
That said, the guy is rather tedious. And his Hillary love during the primaries was annoying as it was hypocritical.
Conservatively Liberal
Righteous writeup John, but one quibble:
Fix’t.
rAmen to that.
Chuck Butcher
One of the drawbacks to the 24/7 news model is that with competition come the pressure to be first with the news (or interview or whatever) and that means fact checking and the other aspects of actual journalism go hang. The days of Cronkite (or…) having all day to put together their newscast and doing somehing approaching journalism are just gone. As newspapers have found themselves in competition with the intertubes you’re seeing the same thing. The hell of it is that I’m running out of "reputable" sources.
I watch Olberman and Maddow because I can trust them to not just roll over to the right wing noise machine, but that isn’t the same thing as getting serious journalism, Jon Stewart for that ;-)
scarshapedstar
Man, Chuck, CL, etc. Much as I love Jon Stewart… seriously journalistic? I laugh! Don’t get me wrong, I laff my heart out. But… I mean, I wish. It’d be awesome!
OK, maybe he roxx hardcore. BJ shoutout?! But, ah… where’d the Nancy Pelosi stuff come from? You just made that stuff up in response to Zifnab, John… but shit, who’s jc? Come clean, dog!
Marshall
No, he is not informed. He might have been informed by the standards of the last century, but no one who gets their news from the newspapers and the nightly news shows can be considered informed today.
Realizing that is the first step to fixing the mess we are in.
Michael Bérubé
Joshua Norton @ 26: Um, yeah, thanks for reading my humble blog. I think.