A catastrophic crash in Buffalo last night, killing all on board, including a 9/11 widow:
According to CNN affiliate WGRZ-TV in Buffalo, one of the crash victims, Beverly Eckert, was the widow of 9/11 terror attack victim Sean Rooney, a Buffalo native. Eckert was traveling to Buffalo for a weekend celebration of what would have been her husband’s 58th birthday.
She also had planned to take part in presentation of a scholarship award at Canisius High School that she established in honor of her late husband, the Buffalo News newspaper reported.
Such a shame. I know several people who went to Canisius College, and I had a roommate from Buffalo. The place, while technically a city, really has a small-town feel, so this will really hit the area hard.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
This is awful. Toronto is just across the lake from Buffalo, so this is being covered pretty heavily locally. The latest I’ve heard is that one person was killed in the demolished house, but two people in nearby houses escaped with some unknown level of injury.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
MetaFilter on the crash. The quality of discussion will vary, but it’s a good place to get a variety of up to date links.
Tattoosydney
It’s so sad to watch (particularly on top of the mass reportage we have had here over the last few days in Oz about our fires).
Another bit of unbearable tragedy as icing for our global problems.
Laura W. posted this in the other thread, but it seems more relevant to respond here.
Patrick Smith has frequently written about the length of time it has been since there has been a major airline crash.
His articles about the Hudson ditching were very interesting. I will be fascinated to see what he has to say about this crash. Presumably he will have to respond to another round of scaremongering in the media about airline safety. The msm missed out on that with the Hudson landing because they had the "hero pilot" story to flog to death.
(Smith, Havrilevsky and Zacharek are the only reasons I go to Salon anymore – since Camille lost her marbles… more.)
Face
Can ppGaz or some other pilot explain in layman’s terms what ‘rime ice’ is?
DougJ
There was a nasty ice/sleet storm in western New York last night. That may have had something to do with the “rime ice”.
Walker
@DougJ:
I can no longer find it, but an early report mentioned that the pilots had discussed some mechanical problems while in flight as well.
ThymeZoneThePlumber
@Face:
This is a pretty good summary of ice types on aircraft.
The material references general aviation aircraft, but it actually applies to almost all aircraft.
ThymeZoneThePlumber
It’s early, I am a stickler for avoiding speculation in the absence of evidence …. but …. under the heading of "When you hear hoofbeats, first think horse and not zebra," the horse here is ice. We could be looking at zebra — something odd or mechanical or human failure — but the most obvious thing that perfectly fits this scenario, unfortunately, is ice.
The bottom line on ice on airplanes is that despite the presence of anti icing and de-icing gear on airplanes, the best remedy for ice is avoidance. Avoid the conditions that cause it. The gear isn’t always effective.
The effect of ice on an airplane is not unlike the effect of icy roads on your car: A sudden and unexpected loss of control. The mechanics are different but the effect felt at the steering wheel is similar …. suddenly, the controls don’t have the desired effect. Recovery at a low altitude is not a high probability.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
Mile O’Brien (formerly of CNN) blogs about the crash here. He, like TZ, thinks the crash was due to ice, but also thinks relying on autopilot in icy conditions is adding risk to risk.
backseatpilot of MeFi tells his story of icing up in a small plane.
ThymeZoneThePlumber
@Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse:
Yes, your blockquote is accurate information.
I’ve never encountered ice in my flying, for one simple reason: I won’t go anywhere near icing conditions.
I won’t even get on an airliner if there is probable icing along my route. I am one of those passengers who checks the aviation weather before I go to the airport. In the summer, I avoid thunderstorms. In the winter, I avoid ice. I am basically chickenshit about bad weather flying. Don’t like it, never have.
Thom
That is so close to my old home and my family – all is well with them. My one sister and her husband, volunteer firefighters and EMTs, were called to the crash. Still haven’t talked to them, but another sis says they were extras, apparently. The crash itself is so lucky/unlucky. That exact area is wide open nothing with some houses on widely spaced roads. And then there’s Clarence Center, a tiny, six blok or so town, and it hit a house on one of those blocks. But, it hit one house and one house only. houses right around it – fine.
Fuck.
Thom
@Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse: Two people in the house are okay. how the hell does that happen?
scarshapedstar
And so the failed Obama administration crashes another plane.
Time for a tax cut.
El Cid
@scarshapedstar: Clearly this tragic event should be labeled the Pelosi-Frank-Dodd-Reid-Obama airplane crash.
Jim
I was born in Buffalo a long long time ago, but still have a lot of family there and a strong emotional attachment to it (plus I have cousins who travel from New York to Buffalo fairly regularly so the news itself was worrisome on a personal level). It remains a beautiful city in many ways, and unlike the national news that it generates (bad snow storms and a losing football team), it isn’t just some rust belt shithole. It is slowly but surely dying, however, and I don’t think there are sufficient life support systems to keep it going well into the 21st century.
Thom
Fuuck. Just talked to another sis. Her husband, a cop, also called to the scene. And then my brother. His house is a about a quarter mile from the site.
Mwangangi
I went to Canisius (through my high school).
HRA
I see there are other Buffalo connections here as well.
We had 2 unusually warm days on Tuesday and Wednesday. Around 1-3 am on Thursday the winds began to howl (70 mph gusts) and the usual bitter cold descended upon the greater Buffalo area. There was a mix of rain, sleet and snow later in the day and into the evening.
The crash occurred in the suburban area north of Buffalo. I am in the south suburban area of Buffalo. My place of work is closer to the crash.
Buffalo is unique in its being a city with a village or town mindset. We all feel the sorrow of the tragedy.
The initial reports about the 2 survivors from the house said they had been out shopping. That has not been repeated. If they were inside, it’s definitely a miracle they survived it.
Thom
@HRA: More east than north, and not really suburban, just to be more exact. Clarence Center is a tiny town in a very rural area. I grew up not far from there (off Wehrle) in Lancaster, most of my family moved to Clarence and Akron after I left in the early 80s.
HRA
Thom I always do the north to south and vice versa since we know West Seneca is wrongly named being East rather than west towards the lake. To me Cheektowaga is East as well. I have been in Clarence and Clarence Ctr. on occasion only to browse with my daughters for antiques. I have been to Akron by going up Maple and crossing Transit. IOW I have been here quite a long time.
I know Lancaster. My son lives there on a street parallel to Transit Rd. off of Argus.
I must also say all other towns, villages etc. near Buffalo are suburban to me. I once lived in Buffalo and loved it, too. I am a city girl at heart and an early transplant from Canada as well.
Thom
I hear you, HRA. The word "suburban" just puts a picture of, well, suburbia in my head. House after house with tiny lawns. Clarence Center is nothing like that – which you know. Nor was Lancaster when I grew up. Thousands of acres of wilderness right out my back door.
Anyway, best to you, and Go Sabres. (And: my gramps was from Kingston.)
Foobar
Has Ann Coulter weighed in on the fact that one of the 911 widows will no longer revel in the death of her husband?
Godspeed to them.
Thom
I was just think the same thing, Foobar.
Rome Again
I was amazed to find that when I was on a game site last night playing a game (while watching the coverage) someone mentioned the crash and another person asked "was it terrorism?"
The fear is still alive and well. That someone would think terrorism when one plane crashes in snow and ice sounds absolutely crazy to me. George Bush scared the hell out of 25% of the country and gave them permanent PTSD.
Legalize
I attended law school in Buffalo and grew quite fond of the city in that short period of time. I was saddened to learn that a friend of a friend was on that plane.
Thom
I have no idea what possessed me to say something as trite as "Go Sabres." Sorry.
TheHatOnMyCat
It looks like ice is either the cause, or directly involved.
I’m not going to say much more until more is known. I don’t think there are going to be any technical surprises here. This thing has all the signatures of a classic icing accident.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
@Thom: Holy shit: the radio station I have on just confirmed that the wife and daughter of the man who died survived by escaping from THAT house, not a nearby house. They must have hightailed it out of there when they heard the plane descending. What horrible survivor guilt for them.
Newest reports; the flight recorder confirms that there was substantial ice buildup.
EDIT: Nope, they were actually in the fucking house and were pinned by the wreckage. MSNBC report here.
Thom
@Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse: I saw that. Really unbelievable. This is sadly getting worse or my family, one of whom worked with a spouse, and a cousin, of passengers. And someone in the company I work for, who I didn’t know, was also. And I’m on the other side of the country. Sad and strange day.
HRA
You are right, Thom. It is sadly getting worse.
One of my nieces emailed me with the news of her husband’s niece and boyfriend being on the flight.
There was an ex-professor from my U and job on the flight as well. I did not know her.
The latest news here said Mrs. Wielinski was in the family room and their daughter was in the back of the house while her husband was in the dining room. She ran out of the house while her daughter got blown out of it by the force. Last night they were reporting the mother and daughter were out shopping.
The weather here began to turn from 2 previous nice days in the late 50s and early 60s at around 1 am on Thursday. It began with high winds and gusts up to 70 mph. During the day we had rain, sleet and snow with the temperatures in the early 30s.
Thom it’s OK to say Go Sabres. It’s Buffalo as we know it and love it. I know there were fans on that flight.
BTW I was born and raised until my preteens in Windsor.
Little
HRA, thanks for the nice words. The very best to you and your niece and everyone else.