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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Military / But The Powerline’s Sand Table Exercises Said It Was Impossible For a Bradley To Run Over a Dog

But The Powerline’s Sand Table Exercises Said It Was Impossible For a Bradley To Run Over a Dog

by John Cole|  February 21, 200912:38 pm| 89 Comments

This post is in: Military, Assholes

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A court martial for Sgt. Michael Leahy:

A US soldier has been convicted of murder for his involvement in the killing of four Iraqis who were shot and dumped in a Baghdad canal in 2007.

Sgt Michael Leahy Jr had confessed to investigators that he shot an Iraqi in the back of the head from close range.

His lawyers argued that the stress of being in a conflict zone for so long meant he was unable to reason properly.

Who is Sgt. Michael Leahy? One of four men from Scott Beauchamp’s unit who is charged with the murders, including Beauchamp’s old first sergeant, who wrote the following completely and totally unprofessional letter at the height of the affair, publicly scolding Beauchamp:

I’m not in the habit of answering these email’s. It would be far too many. I appreciate all the support from home and I can assure you that not a single word of this was true. We’ve been fighting this fight for quite some time. Numerous soldiers within my unit have served on several deployments and this is my third year as a First Sergeant in this unit. My soldiers conduct is consistently honorable. This soldier has other underlining issues which I’m sure will come out in the course of the investigation. No one at any of the post we live at or frequent, remotely fit the descriptions of any of the persons depicted in this young man’s fairy tale.

This was widely and gleefully spread around by the usual suspects, most of whom never spent one day in uniform and whose entire military experience consists of masturbating while reading Michael Yon and a semi-weekly viewing of Red Dawn. Clearly there needs to be a truth commission set up to free Leahy, as we were assured by Michael Goldfarb and the rest of the wankers that no one would even make fun of a woman in a cafeteria, let alone execute someone in cold blood.

For those of you who don’t understand the title of this post, go here. And for the record, Scott Beauchamp is still, to this day, serving his country honorably in uniform, and Michael Goldfarb is still an asshole.

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Reader Interactions

89Comments

  1. 1.

    WereBear

    February 21, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    This is a microcosm of Wingnut procedure.

    Cheer on bloodthirsty retribution, then ignore the human cost.

    Attack the character of critics, using people with none.

    Scream "Support Our Troops!" when they are an amorphous mass that’s good PR fodder, but ignore them when they need help.

    Last, but not least, promote a vision of manhood that is totally inhumane and contrary to human nature.

    And they do this all the time.

  2. 2.

    cleek

    February 21, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    impossible. i bet these so-called "investigators" have a book to sell . and an analysis of the kerning and phraseology used in said book will conclusively prove that Beauchamp himself wrote the most inflammatory parts in an effort to destroy the Army from within. follow the publisher’s advance money, and it will lead you straight to the filthy cash-filled mattresses that George Soros and Micheal Moore use to consummate, over and over, their America hatred.

    i recommend we pre-emptively execute all involved, lest they perpetrate any further crimes against our great nation. their guilt can be easily proved after their evil plans have been stopped.

  3. 3.

    MarkusB

    February 21, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    I think this proves the failure of the Obama presidency.

  4. 4.

    Pennypacker

    February 21, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    The Obama presidency emboldens terrorists, US military tribunals, and other enemies of the state. Somebody call the Confederate Yankee!!!

  5. 5.

    jamfan

    February 21, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Yes, but that’s nothing compared to all the liberals this week who viciously and unfairly knee-jerk accused FOX News’ John Gibson of saying our AG has blue monkey scrotums or something. John Gibson would never in a million years say something that vile and outlandish! It’s the liberals who are the real perpetrators of the debasement of our discourse.

  6. 6.

    valdivia

    February 21, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    slightly off topic but not so much as it seem wingnutia gets reported with credibility by the LA Times. Makes one head explode. Just look at how the phrase the whole article and expound on ‘the controversy’

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/02/obama-birth-cer.html

  7. 7.

    dan robinson

    February 21, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    This was widely and gleefully spread around by the usual suspects, who never spent one day in uniform and whose entire military experience consists of masturbating while reading Michael Yon and a semi-weekly viewing of Red Dawn.

    I’d call them pussies, but that is a slap in the face of the pussies I’ve met and liked.

  8. 8.

    c u n d gulag

    February 21, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    My heart goes out to the Sgt, and especially his victim’s.

    I missed the draft of Vietnam by a little bit, so, I never served. I respect the men and women who serve out country.

    The tension and pressure of being in Iraq is something that I can’t even begin to understand.
    Did the Sgt. do wrong? Yes!
    Was the military and our government wrong for putting this man in a horrible situation? Yes!!!
    Unfortunately, he’ll be paying the price for the rest of his life. GWB, Cheney, and Rummie will be collecting speaking fees while this poor SOB rots in jail for something they caused.
    Is evil inherent in people? I don’t know. But I do know that in the wrong circumstances, we can all be vicious brutes. Don’t believe it? Have someone attack you mother. Or, put pacifist me in a cell with Cheney, or any other MF’er in that administration, and then call up the clean-up crew!

    I admire Beauchamp for his honesty. I hope those that lied about him get their just rewards.
    And my fondest dream is that everyone in the past mis-adminstration has an appearance in front of The Hague.
    Let the world judge.

  9. 9.

    John Cole

    February 21, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    @valdivia: That is Andrew Malcolm, who IS a wingnut.

  10. 10.

    Martin

    February 21, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    And this concludes today’s episode of ‘I Reject Your Reality and Substitute My Own’. Tune in tomorrow when we revisit the sordid tale of a 12 year old boy and his suspiciously nice countertops.

    (IRYRASMO really should be a blog tag for the frequency with which the wingnuts employ it)

  11. 11.

    CT Voter

    February 21, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Thanks for highlighting this.

    Wingers are all for personal responsibility. For other people, of course.

    I wonder how this:

    His lawyers argued that the stress of being in a conflict zone for so long meant he was unable to reason properly.

    will play in Wingnutistan?

  12. 12.

    Dennis-SGMM

    February 21, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    This was widely and gleefully spread around by the usual suspects, who never spent one day in uniform…

    And who demonstrably never lived in a service town. Putting on a uniform doesn’t automatically ennoble anyone. A person in a uniform is still a person and people sometimes do terrible things.

  13. 13.

    valdivia

    February 21, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    @John Cole:

    got it I knew he was out there in acrimony to the Pres but not he was a full time wingnut. so how come the LA Times employs a wingnut?

  14. 14.

    Dennis-SGMM

    February 21, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    @CT Voter:
    These are the same people who not so many years ago denied that PTSD even existed and that anyone who seemed to be suffering from it was just a malingering pussy. I wouldn’t mind driving their American flag lapel pins into their foreheads with a rigging axe.

  15. 15.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    February 21, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Puhleez! Why would the wingnuttia be bothered with admitting they were wrong when they are now organizng a Tea Party. Careful, or you may get hit by some stray cheetos!

  16. 16.

    D-Chance.

    February 21, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    … the stress of being in a conflict zone for so long meant he was unable to reason properly.

    Traumatic Stress Disorder, as a defense.

    But, remember, POST-traumatic stress disorder doesn’t exist, according to most of the Chairborne Commandos.

  17. 17.

    opium4themasses

    February 21, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    @valdivia: Balance.

    The sort of balance you find between killing all puppies and killing no puppies.

    This specific article didn’t seem to lend the claim much credence by calling those pushing it conspiracists (sic). Though it also failed to bring up any facts proving or disproving the claim.

  18. 18.

    Mike E

    February 21, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Dogs can’t look up, either. h/t Shaun of the Dead

  19. 19.

    C.S.

    February 21, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    I’d call them pussies, but that is a slap in the face of the pussies I’ve met and liked.

    I think you spelled "licked" wrong.

    Boom!
    [/Dice Clay]

  20. 20.

    valdivia

    February 21, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    I wonder if TNR gets to publish something appropriately chastising the NRO and WS crowd.

    @opium4themasses:

    ah yes balance! we should give equal time to all crazy ideas just because they come from the right and as we know the media is so liberal.

  21. 21.

    kay

    February 21, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    "But prosecuting lawyer Cpt Derrick Grace said the soldiers could not be allowed to claim that they were protecting themselves "from future harm".

    Sad gambit by the defense, considering Iraq War context.

    Self-defense, sort of, but…broader. Way broad. Preemptive, almost.

  22. 22.

    D-Chance.

    February 21, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    The article has already fallen off the Memeorandum scope. So cowards like Erickson, Hinderaker, Reynolds, Collins, Owens, Malkin, McCain, and such will let it skirt by without mention. Like a yellow dog with its tail between its legs huddled up in the corner, hoping no one notices its presence or lack thereof…

  23. 23.

    gbear

    February 21, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    @D-Chance.:

    the stress of being in a conflict zone for so long meant he was unable to reason properly.

    This quote perfectly explains wingnuttia in the age of Obama.

    "So long" on wingnuttia calendars = the length of time that they’d remain brave and calm if airdropped into Baghdad.

  24. 24.

    demimondian

    February 21, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    @valdivia: Obviously, the only reason Martin payed any attention to Keyes’ frothing is because he desperately wants it to stay alive, but, that said, he knows it’s a pure fraud. So he writes an article which is pitched as if it were a pure play for page views, using the false balance model to draw lefties, while repeating the big lie so that it doesn’t die.

    Brilliant.

    [/conspiracy theory]

  25. 25.

    Ed Marshall

    February 21, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    My guess is they would be more upset to find out the guy had killed a dog. Iraqi’s, eh, not so much.

  26. 26.

    Atanarjuat

    February 21, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    It’s indisputably tragic what the War in Iraq has done to the mental health of many of our troops, and we should take a moment to reflect that soldiers and marines are not robots, but real human beings like the rest of us who suffer from stress and anxiety.

    Moreover, it’s difficult to predict what a war zone would do anyone’s behavior, but we should be showing support for those who succumb to the horror of war — not write "aha!" articles to further the leftist view that American troops are akin to howling beasts with barely suppressed psychotic urges.

    Remember, most Democrats voted for this war along with their Republican counterparts, and no one ever promised that this military conflict would be full of prancing ponies and rainbow lollipops. What happened with Sgt. Leahy is reprehensible, without a doubt, but you can’t use the example of a few bad apples to torch the whole orchard.

    At least Leahy and those like him are over there trying to make a difference, which is more than can be said about leftists who shamelessly celebrate every setback in Iraq from the safety of their keyboards as a confirmation of their cowardly, pacifist beliefs.

    -Country First.

  27. 27.

    Jennifer

    February 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    uh, dood…there’s an ad at the top of the site for Not-Joe the Not-Plumber’s book.

    The mind wobbles.

  28. 28.

    Mike in NC

    February 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    masturbating while reading Michael Yon and a semi-weekly viewing of Red Dawn

    Oooooh! Wolverines!!! YES!!!

  29. 29.

    Punchy

    February 21, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    so we should expect RudeState to report on this devo and apologize for their previous denial, right? Right?

  30. 30.

    MikeJ

    February 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    The Sgt who wrote that letter ought to be convicted of something for what he did to the english language. email’s ? Arrrgh.

  31. 31.

    John Cole

    February 21, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    The article has already fallen off the Memeorandum scope. So cowards like Erickson, Hinderaker, Reynolds, Collins, Owens, Malkin, McCain, and such will let it skirt by without mention. Like a yellow dog with its tail between its legs huddled up in the corner, hoping no one notices its presence or lack thereof…

    They never gave a shit about the dog, they couldn’t care less if anyone actually insulted a woman, and they didn’t care about any of that stuff. That was all an act, and forgetting that leaves you susceptible to fall for it again.

    The one and only reason the Beauchamp affair happened is because Iraq was exploding at the time. It was falling apart at the seams, being torn apart in violence. It was a disaster. Go check the American casualty numbers for 2007. The excellent adventure in Iraq was a disaster, and the war fanatics at the Weekly Standard new it would hamper their drive for war with Iran or whoever else they want to bomb.

    The wingnuts needed a foil, and they chose The New Republic. They needed someone to serve as the example that you can not trust any of the news from Iraq, because the media is biased and liberal and hates the troops and so forth. “You can’t trust any of the news from Iraq!” That is why this issue was manufactured. It is not an accident this started at the Weekly Standard.

    The fact that they chose to nearly destroy an American soldier, Scott Beauchamp, in their drive to change the narrative, shows you what these guys really think of the troops.

  32. 32.

    Douche Baggins

    February 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Dear Anatanarajarot: Fuck you. Us liberals didn’t want to send soldiers to Iraq in the first place. in foresight and hindsight, we were right. If you had listened to who was right (hint: it was us DFH’s), we wouldn’t be discussing how the stress of war caused a noble American soldier put a bullet into the brain of a fellow human being.

    Americans First.

  33. 33.

    opium4themasses

    February 21, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    @Atanarjuat: This is far more about cheering on a vindicated whistle-blower who was trying to bring light to the wrongs being committed.

  34. 34.

    dan robinson

    February 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    I think you spelled "licked" wrong.

    Damn, I got busted!

    These wingtards who think they know something about being a soldier because they knew someone who was a soldier once or maybe because they went to a party and a soldier was there remind me of the people who think that they know children because they are an aunt or uncle.

    You only know what it is like to be a soldier when you are or have been one, much in the way that you will never understand children until you have held your own in your arms. It’s about commitment.

    It’s like a bacon and eggs breakfast: the chicken was involved, but the pig is committed.

  35. 35.

    Cassidy

    February 21, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    At least Leahy and those like him are over there trying to make a difference

    Bullshit! Leahy and those like him make my job a whole hell of a lot harder. We’re (the Soldiers who do what’s right) trying to make a difference. Leahy and his kind have forgotten what being a Soldier (and an NCO) really means.

  36. 36.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Sgt. Leahy’s actions seem indefensible. But he is just another reason why we need to disengage in the Middle East. Sending more troops to Afghanistan, and keeping an open footprint in Iraq, is just going to get more American soldiers killed, and create more incidents like this. These people hate us, and all the candy in the world is not going to change things.

    Our Middle Eastern involvement should be limited to remote airbases, to keep the Russians, Chinese, and Iranians away from the Arab oil supplies. There is nothing to be gained from interacting with these populations.

    I challenge the Obama supporters to defend our mission in Afghanistan.

  37. 37.

    valdivia

    February 21, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    I remember when this was at the boiling point in the blogs and just seeing the wingnut machine operating at a froth, it was scary ‘efficient’. The thing is that they tried doing the same during the election and by then they could not gain any traction anymore. They are still trying but it seems like all they do is spin their wheels. Or maybe I am just too optimistic?

  38. 38.

    El Cid

    February 21, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Remember, most Democrats voted for this war along with their Republican counterparts, and no one ever promised that this military conflict would be full of prancing ponies and rainbow lollipops

    Horseshit.

    BBC News | Friday, 7 February, 2003, 20:50 GMT

    Rumsfeld foresees swift Iraq war

    Any war with Iraq would be swift and not require a full US mobilisation, says US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

    He said war was still not inevitable, but noted that 12 years of international diplomacy had failed to disarm Iraq…

    Mr Rumsfeld is in Europe to try to gain backing for possible military action against Iraq.

    "It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," he said, speaking at the American air base at Aviano, in northern Italy.

    Go to hell you piles of living sh*t, spoof troll or not.

    "When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community." Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense, March 27, 2003

  39. 39.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Do not read anything into dogs getting run over in the 3rd world. This happens all the time and is not intentional. There are dogs everywhere.

    The humane taxi drivers back up to put the dog out of it’s misery. Most keep driving.

  40. 40.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    February 21, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    I challenge the Obama supporters to defend our mission in Afghanistan.

    Uh… September 11, 2001, you dumb-ass bastard? The Taliban, who supported and protected the guys who pulled that particular operaion off? THE PEOPLE WITH WHOM WE HAVE A LEGITIMATE BEEF?

    Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

    What is with wingnuts? Why is it that they can’t recognize the difference between a legitimate casus belli arrant nonsense?

  41. 41.

    John Cole

    February 21, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    I remember when this was at the boiling point in the blogs and just seeing the wingnut machine operating at a froth, it was scary ‘efficient’. The thing is that they tried doing the same during the election and by then they could not gain any traction anymore. They are still trying but it seems like all they do is spin their wheels. Or maybe I am just too optimistic?

    The market shed trillions in worth the past year, and people who normally would buy into the bullshit just watched their life savings fall apart and are no longer thinking about retiring to a beach house in Florida while spoiling the grandkids. People who a few years back had not a care in the world are now feeling just as vulnerable economically as the poor people they used to be able to ignore.

    The dire times have focused people to look past the bullshit, and the McCain campaign never figured that out. They thought they could do the same old song and dance, just put out a few cheap stunts, yell socialist every now and then, and everything would be ok as long as they won the daily news cycle.

    And why not? It worked so well in the past.

    I should probably add, the people on the right who do understand this are folks like Malkin, who is trying to channel the fear out there into rage. Look no farther than her tea party bullshit. I’ll stop now before I Godwin myself.

  42. 42.

    Walker

    February 21, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    They are still trying but it seems like all they do is spin their wheels. Or maybe I am just too optimistic?

    When I took American History in high school, my teacher – who has since retired and now works as a national consultant for AP history – said something that I will never forget.

    He said that all movements in history consist of the extremists getting the moderates to go along with them. And the extremists can always do this – for a short while. But eventually the extremists lose their grip on the moderates, and the pendulum swings back. Furthermore, when they lose the moderates, they never get them back (at least as part of the same movement).

  43. 43.

    Ed Marshall

    February 21, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    No, the backstory was that someone driving a bradley, intentionally crushed the dog. It’s a tiny detail in a long story that the Keyboard Kommadoes found unflattering and they made it a huge issue because supposedly this was just unpossible and Beauchamp was just making things up.

    This was where they got their toys out in the sandbox to "prove" something about how Beauchamp was this gigantic fraud.

  44. 44.

    opium4themasses

    February 21, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko: It’s the same logic that says that all explanations are equally valid.

    ID is on par with evolution, all opinions are equal right?

  45. 45.

    Ninerdave

    February 21, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    @John Cole:

    And why not? It worked so well in the past.

    Well and let’s not forget, the public at large had unusually high interest all through out this election, due to Obama being in the race. I think the more you pay attention the less the wingnut bullshit works

  46. 46.

    JL

    February 21, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    These people hate us, and all the candy in the world is not going to change things.

    B O B It sounds like Leahy had the problem. .

  47. 47.

    Napoleon

    February 21, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    @John Cole:

    Why do you say that?

  48. 48.

    valdivia

    February 21, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    @John Cole:

    yes the funny thing is that they are still using the same hand book and it still ain’t working but hey, these types never saw any empirical evidence they could not ignore eh? this is their specialty–meet reality, proceed by ignoring it.

    walker–in latin america you see this in every ‘revolutionary’ and even every ‘reactionary’ movement. the moderates, the middle class go along at the beginning but they abandon these movements along the way and yes, never get them back.

  49. 49.

    John Cole

    February 21, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    @Napoleon: Because I have read him for several years?

  50. 50.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko; Who is the enemy in Afghanistan?

  51. 51.

    CT Voter

    February 21, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    They are still trying but it seems like all they do is spin their wheels. Or maybe I am just too optimistic?

    I think what bears watching is how long the Palin/Santell!!! in 2012!! crap is sustained. The idea that some rich trader who also happens to be a "reporter" for CNBC is the new face of populism is as believable as Joe the Plumber/Journalist in the Middle East. On the face of it, gobsmackingly absurd. But reported upon as if it were reasonable and rational.

  52. 52.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    February 21, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    @Brick Oven Bill: It is and it was the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

    Really, dear boy, it’s not that difficult. They attacked us, we respond; with the full approval of NATO, and the United Nations, completely in compliance with international law.

    As opposed to that crazy right turn into Iraq for no goddamn reason whatsoever.

  53. 53.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko; Thank you for the answer.

    Now please explain to me the difference between the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and your typical conservative Mosque in Britain.

  54. 54.

    srv

    February 21, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko:

    THE PEOPLE WITH WHOM WE HAVE A LEGITIMATE BEEF?

    So you’ve been bombing Afghans for six years. How’s that working out for you? Just a couple more Friedman units? And you’re probably not bombing Taliban, you’re bombing drug lords who are competing with the Karzai family or his allies (many who previously supported AQ) business. All while helping destabilizing Pakistan.

    Oh, that’s going to just work out great. No errant nonsense there.

    Signing your kids up to learn Pashtun dialects and the ROTC? Or do you have some other magical end-game here you wanted others to die for?

  55. 55.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    February 21, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Al Qaeda: planned and executed brilliant attack on American civilians inside the US.

    Taliban: Government regime that supported and protected Al Qaeda.

    British Mosque: Bunch of Muslims in Britain.

    Now, which of these commited and act of war against the United States, and who were the government entities that protected and supported those who committed said act of war? And who ain’t done a goddamn thing to us?

  56. 56.

    valdivia

    February 21, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Why should he? If it is not transparently obvious to you, you are just being purposely obtuse.

    Though there are some radical mosques in britain (which have gotten into trouble for agitating about destroying the west) the ‘run of the mill’ conservative mosques are nothing like the Taliban and Al Queda (especially since those have not attacked the US). I would lay off the Huntington reading for a while.

    (sorry Ivan, for jumping in, just had to)

  57. 57.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    February 21, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    @srv: I didn’t say it had been done well, or correctly, or even intelligently.

    All I say is that we, the people of the United States of America, have a legitimate beef with the government of the nation that protected and supported an armed organization which committed an act of war against the United States.

    This is not rocket science.

    The invasion of Iraq was a war crime, regardless of the nit-witted incompetence with which it was carried out.

    The invasion of Afghanistan was a legitimate expression of self defence— regardless of the nit-witted incompetence with wich it was carried out.

  58. 58.

    TenguPhule

    February 21, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    but you can’t use the example of a few bad apples to torch the whole orchard.

    I dunno, locking the Republican Political Party in a room and torching it sounds like a mighty fine idea to me.

  59. 59.

    Atanarjuat

    February 21, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    @Douche Baggins:

    Just who do you suppose fights to preserve your sheltered, comfortable life?

    Hint: it’s not the egalitarian editorials in the NY Times, nor is it the defend-terrorists-at-all-costs ACLU.

    All of us who call ourselves Americans owe our freedom to those willing to risk life and limb in service to the nation.

    Apparently, you’d rather call yourself anything other than American. Can’t say I’m surprised, leftie.

    -Country First.

  60. 60.

    TenguPhule

    February 21, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    supported an armed organization which committed an act of war against the United States.

    For the ten billionth time, it was NOT AN ACT OF WAR. It was an act of TERRORISM. DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO.

    Calling it an act of war pays too much honor to Al Queda.

  61. 61.

    TenguPhule

    February 21, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    nor is it the defend-terrorists-at-all-costs ACLU.

    The ACLU has done more to defend American rights then Atanarjuat, the GOP and any of the listed soldiers up on charges.

    So yeah.

  62. 62.

    TenguPhule

    February 21, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    All of us who call ourselves Americans owe our freedom to those willing to risk life and limb in service to the nation.

    That would be the ACLU, civil rights volunteers and *gasp* community organizers!

  63. 63.

    libarbarian

    February 21, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    There is no what a Rhino could run over a dog like that … at least not if it’s moving more than 6" that turn.

  64. 64.

    dan robinson

    February 21, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    For the ten billionth time, it was NOT AN ACT OF WAR. It was an act of TERRORISM. DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO.

    Calling it an act of war pays too much honor to Al Queda.

    Amen.

    Amen, again.

  65. 65.

    srv

    February 21, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko: Troll BOB’s question was:

    I challenge the Obama supporters to defend our mission in Afghanistan.

    What is the mission? In non-rocket scientist terms, even though I’ve worked with some of them, and never had a problem understanding them.

    What is the end-game? What is victory? When will we have bombed those rocks enough? When we rile up the natives enough and they take out the Paki government?

  66. 66.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    The next 9-11 is more likely to come out of Britain than it is out of the rural areas of Afghanistan. The ideology in the mountains is the same as the English ideology. But the threat in England is literate. The texts are there for anyone to read.

    People say that this hate comes from poverty and lack of education. This is false, it is not the illiterate goat herders with AKs that are a threat to the West.

    Atta: European Civil Engineer;

    Al Zawaheri: Medical Doctor;

    The Flaming English Airport Duo: Medical Doctors;

    The Worst Guy of All Time, Osama Bin Laden: Rich Construction Contractor;

    The Blow-Up The Planes with Soda Can Students: English Science Students in College;

    Ahmedinejad: Civil Engineer

    The best strategy, in my opinion, is a defensive, isolationist posture. The threat from Islam will burn itself out, if we just stop feeding it. A very good book about the rural Afghanistan is Lone Survivor, by Marcus Luttrell. His friends were killed there. Putting more troops into Afghanistan is counter-productive.

  67. 67.

    Tsulagi

    February 21, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    @Cassidy: I’d go with that.

  68. 68.

    Martin

    February 21, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    For the ten billionth time, it was NOT AN ACT OF WAR. It was an act of TERRORISM. DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO.
    Calling it an act of war pays too much honor to Al Queda.

    If it was a state act, it was effectively an act of war – and it’s hard to decouple the Taliban, who officially ran Afghanistan, from al Qaeda in that respect since it’s pretty apparent that the rulers of Afghanistan knew about and approved of the attack. That’s precisely the problem Israel is having with their neighbors – to what extent are these terrorist groups simply extensions of the official Iranian government? What we call it depends on who we are referring to – act of war from Taliban, terrorism from Al Qaeda. I think that’s an important distinction to draw for a variety of reasons.

    It’s not cut-and-dry either way, but I think it’s clear that the Taliban needed to be toppled – and they were. We have no beef with the Afghan government as it exists now. We want to help make sure the Taliban doesn’t return to power – but that’s a different mission with different approaches and we haven’t handled that part particularly well. Making matters worse, Afghanistan isn’t the urgent problem, Pakistan is, because that’s where the Taliban are strongest and those boys have nukes. Now, that even worse situation is mostly due to our actions as well, so really we’ve just fucked up the whole approach there after the 2nd month or so.

    We have an obligation to fix it inasmuch as it is fixable. The people arguing to be in Afghanistan think it is fixable, without really saying how that is – it’s neither a noble nor brave act to stand on your roof with a garden hose while a forest fire devours everything in its path – it’s just stupid. Not all problems have solutions that can be implemented. But many of the people arguing to get out of Afghanistan refuse to accept the obligation that comes with fucking something up, and seem to mostly be anti-war folks in general. They don’t seem to care if its fixable or not and as such they’re the foreign policy equivalent of Grover Norquist, because they seem to take the position that the only thing the military can do is fuck things up. There’s a small (astonishingly small) group of people that are actually discussing whether the problems in the region can be fixed and what tools (military and otherwise) are needed to fix them. They’re the only ones worth listening to, IMO.

    As for al Qaeda, their presence in Afghanistan and Iraq is limited. I don’t think either conflict is focused on al Qaeda, but it would be SOOO much easier to step back if we hadn’t fucked up going after Bin Laden. That was a colossal failure.

  69. 69.

    Martin

    February 21, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    The next 9-11 is more likely to come out of Britain than it is out of the rural areas of Afghanistan. The ideology in the mountains is the same as the English ideology. But the threat in England is literate. The texts are there for anyone to read.

    Bill, the next 9-11 is more likely to come out of Hannity and Alan Keyes Christofascist brigade than it is out of England. The threat in the US is equally literate and the texts here are materially calling for nothing different than the ones in England are – but the supporters here are already here and vastly outnumber whatever Muslim threat might be able to reach this country. The McVeighs and Rudolphs and Hannitys are every bit as radically fundamentalist as Bin Laden. This doesn’t sound too far removed from what we hear every day as public discourse.

  70. 70.

    oh really

    February 21, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    In keeping with the sophistication of the sandbox tests, I simply accepted the fact that a 1/32nd scale Bradley vehicle could not run over a 1/32nd scale dog. Since Beauchamp never claimed that a 1/32nd scale dog had been run over, I knew no such thing could have happened and that meant Beauchamp was (and is) a traitor. We owe a debt of gratitude to the 101st Fighting Keyboarders. Without them, we would all be enslaved.

    …for the record, Scott Beauchamp is still, to this day, serving his country honorably in uniform…

    That’s too bad. He should be serving life for even hinting that an Amurkin soldier would so much as eat with the wrong fork.

  71. 71.

    Tsulagi

    February 21, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Afghanistan isn’t the urgent problem, Pakistan is, because that’s where the Taliban are strongest and those boys have nukes.

    Yep.

    I’m good with the planned 17k troop deployment to Afghanistan. Would like to see President Obama put some walk to his campaign talk in that area.

  72. 72.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    February 21, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    @srv: At this point, I honestly don’t have a good answer for you. At the time of the original invasion, immediately in the aftermath of the WTC attack, it may have been possible to take down the Taliban and help set up a legitimate govenment, regardless of the known history of the Pashtuns and invaders (see Union, Soviet; and Empire, British for further clarification).

    At this moment, I don’t know what the mission should be. I think the entire enterprise has been screwed, blued and tattooed thanks to the Bush Regime; that our moral authority with regards to having been attacked by an armed faction of the Afghanistan (and I’m not going to fence with you over whether Al Qaeda was a part of the Afghan government of the Taliban, so long as the Taliban gave them freedom to pursue their aims and offered them protection, insofar as internation law is concerned they may as well have done it with guys wearing Afghan Army tunics)– our moral authority is gone. We’re pretty much SOL for a good end to this, now.

    But that does not mean that the original mission, one of simple retaliation against a government because of its having sanctioned an act of war against the US, was in any way legally or morally wrong?

    You want to ask "What Now?," and all I can say is "I got nothin’." At this point I don’t know that the Obama administration has anything, but that does not eliminate the legal and moral legitimacy of the invasion of Afghanistan.

  73. 73.

    calipgyian

    February 21, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    You’ve convinced me BOB, lets bomb the shit out of Great Britain.

  74. 74.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    I agree with you Martin, and do not consider Islam to be a long term-threat to the United States in and of itself. I will never convince you that the Bible is a fundamentally different book than the Qur’an, but the link I provided above provides critiques of both books, and I encourage people to make their own judgments. McVeigh is getting to be old news, in my opinion.

    The threat that Islam poses to our American ideals is that it can be used as an excuse to remove everybody’s freedoms. The nature of government is to grow more powerful. The excuse of Islam created the funding that has TV cameras on Chicago street corners. Throw this in with things like the National Continuity Coordinatoron command, and bad things could potentially happen.

    This is why I believe that we should allow people to practice Islam however they choose in that hemisphere, and invoke RICO here. Islam is in clear violation of our RICO statutes. There is a pattern of felonious behavior.

  75. 75.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    February 21, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    If it was a state act, it was effectively an act of war – and it’s hard to decouple the Taliban, who officially ran Afghanistan, from al Qaeda in that respect since it’s pretty apparent that the rulers of Afghanistan knew about and approved of the attack.

    Precisely. I’d even go so far as to argue that harboring Al Qaeda leaders in lieu of foreknowledge made the Taliban government complicit in the act– and this raises it to the level of "act of war."

    That said– I can easily see the case that Al Qaeda are simply a bunch of criminals and best dealt with as such. As long as they don’t have the legal rights conferred by national sovereignty behind them, a law-enforcement approach is clearly appropriate.

  76. 76.

    Brick Oven Bill

    February 21, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    Re: “As long as they don’t have the legal rights conferred by national sovereignty behind them…”

    Article One; Hamas Charter

    The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement’s programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.

    I have a certain level of respect for Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, The Taliban, The MILFs, and their cousins all around the world, because they are all technically correct, and ideologically pure.

  77. 77.

    Mouse Tolliver

    February 21, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Matt Sanchez, the nutball who used to brag about breaking the Scott Thomas Beauchamp story, was recently on The Tyra Banks Show, talking about the hazards of doing gay p0rn when you’re a resolute heterosexual like himself. Apparently it’s sort of a pain in the ass to have people constantly remind you that you used to suck penises and lick anuses for money when you’re trying to be taken seriously as a Pajamas Media was correspondent.

  78. 78.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 21, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    @Attanut

    -Country First.

    Attanut, have you ever spent any time in the military? Have you? Have you ever put country first when it meant more than hanging around on wingnut blogs and bloviating about how tough you are? Or are you just another chickenshit chickenhawk? I’m willing to bet the latter but I’d love to be proven wrong, just for once.

  79. 79.

    Conservatively Liberal

    February 21, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    Your answer will probably be the sound of crickets. I would be willing to bet that the closest attanut myiq1/2u GoatBoy has been to the military is playing with his G.I. Joe.

    Still, persist in this line of questioning to see if it will elicit a response. :)

    -Ladies First.

  80. 80.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 21, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    @John Cole

    For those of you who don’t understand the title of this post, go here. And for the record, Scott Beauchamp is still, to this day, serving his country honorably in uniform, and Michael Goldfarb is still an asshole.

    I just read that post about wingnut disproving this story by looking at his 1:32nd scale BFV in his back yard and it just adds fuel to my fantasy of going after the members of the 101st Chairborne with a 1:1 scale M-1. I wouldn’ t need ammo, I’d just chase them down and run them over, that way I wouldn’t even need a crew. Hell, I’d even be willing to do it in an M-60 but the M-1 would be more fun because it’s so stealthy, those things can be right on top of you before you know it and also because the driver’s seat in the M-1 is wicked comfortable, if they had built heating elements into it it would be perfect.

  81. 81.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 21, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    I just read that post again and it’s even more obvious that the moron who was playing with the BFV in his sandbox has never driven or even ridden in a tracked vehicle. I don’t know if the BFV has the same control yokes as an M-113 where you can run one track at full reverse while running the other one full forward but I remember taking a ride in the back of an M-113 at Yakima Firing Center where the driver was fucking with the guys in the back by throwing it into skids by reversing one track while the other one was still moving forward. He was having lots of fun bouncing us around until the differential blew out, tore a hole through the engine compartment and showered him with hot oil and fragments of aluminum. He had even less fun when we told the motor sergeant just how the differential blew, especially since he was a maintenance puke and should have known better.

    I mean fuck, this is even stupider than the goddamned Chewbacca Defense.

  82. 82.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 21, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    @Attanut

    Just who do you suppose fights to preserve your sheltered, comfortable life?
    Hint: it’s not the egalitarian editorials in the NY Times, nor is it the defend-terrorists-at-all-costs ACLU the staff at the Corner, Dick "I had other priorities during Vietnam" Cheney, Rush "I couldn’t serve because I had an infected pimple on my filthy fat ass" Limbaugh, Sean "I was too busy blowing priests to join the Army" Hannity, Michael "I’m too gay to serve in the military and will prove it by blowing my entire draft board and their pets" Wienersavage, Ann "I’d love to serve in the military but for some reason they’re really down on chicks with dicks" Coulter, Michelle "Me so horny G.I. Me love you long time in my cheerleader outfit" Malkin, Eric "I’d love to serve in the military but have to suck the pus out of Rush Limbaugh’s infected ass pimples" Cantor or John "I’ll let G.W. Bush go ass to mouth on me any time he wants" Hinderaker.

    Fixed.

  83. 83.

    Atanarjuat

    February 21, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    have you ever spent any time in the military? Have you? Have you ever put country first when it meant more than hanging around on wingnut blogs and bloviating about how tough you are?

    No, I’ve never been in the military, nor do I pretend to be an Internet tough guy like some here on this very blog.

    What I do is respect and honor the service of everyone in the military who are defending our freedoms from all enemies abroad.

    And for some (not) very mysterious reason, making this statement drives lefties insane with anger. I really don’t wonder why, considering how liberals take their safety and freedom for granted.

    Spit on that, lefty.

    -Country First.

  84. 84.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 22, 2009 at 12:04 am

    @Attanut

    Just who do you suppose fights to preserve your sheltered, comfortable life?

    Well now we know that it’s not you and never has been you. Why not? Seriously, if you’re so concerned about our freedoms then why don’t you get off of your lazy ass and join up? John Cole did his bit to preserve your sheltered, comfortable life, he served in the 11th ACR, the Army’s finest armor unit, the guys who were at the tip of the spear during the Cold War. I did my time, I enlisted when I was 17 and spent 13 years in an ARNG armor unit. Oh, and who are those internet tough guys you’re talking about? It must be that fuckhead over at Powerline who talked about the insights he got into how armored vehicles handle by playing with a 1:32 scale BFV in his sandbox? Or maybe it was Jonah Goldberg who said:

    I think that war with Iraq is necessary to save lives in the long run. I think that those who are opposed to toppling Saddam are risking American (and Arab and Israeli) lives too.
    Soldiers will die in any war, that’s why they call it war.

    and then, when asked why he wasn’t serving said

    As for why my sorry a** isn’t in the kill zone, lots of people think this is a searingly pertinent question. No answer I could give — I’m 35 years old, my family couldn’t afford the lost income, I have a baby daughter, my a** is, er, sorry, are a few — ever seem to suffice.

    Yeah, there sure are a lot of internet tough guys out there, strangely enough they all seem to be Republicans. Go figure.

    What I do is respect and honor the service of everyone in the military who are defending our freedoms from all enemies abroad.

    I grew up in Kitsap County Washington. In Kitsap County your parents were either in the Navy or worked for the Navy at PSNS, Keyport or Bangor. What you describe was, and still is, the standard state of affairs there but we didn’t run around congratulating each other over it the way you congratulate yourself.

  85. 85.

    Conservatively Liberal

    February 22, 2009 at 5:06 am

    For some reason Attanut believes that being a tough guy means having a huge military go out and beat up anyone who scares him. IOW, he needs people like Wylie and John to make him safe because he is unwilling to do it himself. He wants them to fight and maybe die just to keep his ass safe, and he pays them back with lip service saying that he ‘respects and honors’ them.

    Fat lot of good that will do them if they die in their service to our country him.

    No, I didn’t serve either but it was a childhood injury that kept me out. I wanted to join the Air Force as my father served there, as have several other family members, but life was not going to give me that option. While I myself have not served, unlike Attanut and the other wingattanuts out there I can also say that I am not in a hurry to send our men and women out to die in senseless ‘wars’ that do nothing to protect us and everything to piss the rest of the world off. I respect the fact that those men and women are for one job and one job only, protecting our nation and its people. Iraq has done neither, it has been a total waste of our political, economic and military resources. It only made it easier for Attanut and his ilk to bust a nut because brown people were dying and that is all that matters to these ‘Country Firsters’.

    Though I never served I bet I am one of the few civilians who could operate an ejection chair on a B-52H, have read the ‘owners manual’ (three-ring blue binder, about two inches thick) for the B-52H, how the data modules (4) are loaded with the mission data, installed and started prior to takeoff and lots of other fun details about that big boy bomber. I have read the little black three-ring binder with the yellow pages bordered with black serrated lines, warnings all over them and that have the AOA (angle of attack) data, launch code formats (no codes though!) and other fun stuff that people are not supposed to see. I have been given one-on-one tours of aircraft stationed at Fairchild AFB, including one poor B-52 that someone dropped the tail turret off of (was that fucker ever a mess!).

    So while I have not served it wasn’t because I didn’t want to, thats for damned sure. I am sure that Attanut has a good reason why he didn’t serve. He will probably claim it was because of a boil on his ass.

    He’s wrong, it’s not a boil on his ass. It’s a pimple on his face.

  86. 86.

    El Cid

    February 22, 2009 at 6:45 am

    What I do is respect and honor the service of everyone in the military who are defending our freedoms from all enemies abroad.

    I see zero evidence for this statement. Actually, I think it’s a lie. I think you neither respect nor honor the service of everyone in the military.

    I think you’re a childish spoof who likes talking like those who think shooting off at the mouth on how awesome some military action is has something to do with respecting or honoring those in service.

  87. 87.

    Atanarjuat

    February 22, 2009 at 8:35 am

    @El Cid:

    I see zero evidence for this statement. Actually, I think it’s a lie. I think you neither respect nor honor the service of everyone in the military.

    Actually, you’ve shown ZERO evidence that I neither respect nor honor the service of anyone in the armed forces. Your anti-conservative bias is not proof, Cid my boy.

    I think you’re a childish spoof who likes talking like those who think shooting off at the mouth on how awesome some military action is has something to do with respecting or honoring those in service.

    What’s childish is ignoring what’s actually been stated in order to support your knee-jerk animus toward all things Republican or conservative.

    Here’s what I said above:


    Just who do you suppose fights to preserve your sheltered, comfortable life?

    Hint: it’s not the egalitarian editorials in the NY Times, nor is it the defend-terrorists-at-all-costs ACLU.

    All of us who call ourselves Americans owe our freedom to those willing to risk life and limb in service to the nation.

    I’ve said NOTHING about how "awesome some military action is." But since you brought up the term, Cid baby, our men in women in uniform are indeed awesome for doing the dangerous and life-threatening job of keeping our country safe. That you owe your freedom to these people who ask for very little in return should mean at least something to you, but no… just mentioning things like honor, service, and the military in the same sentence drives you off the rails and induces you to spew your noxious vomit.

    Thanks for proving my point, lefty.

    -Country First.

  88. 88.

    Conservatively Liberal

    February 22, 2009 at 9:25 am

    Just who do you suppose fights to preserve your sheltered, comfortable life?

    Well it sure as fuck ain’t you and we sure as hell don’t need a total fuckwit like you to tell us who we should appreciate and why we don’t. You are a worthless piece of shit, so scared that you need to hide behind others because you are scared that someone will get you. We could only be so lucky.

    I wasn’t scared on 9/11. I watched what happened and I got pissed. Scared didn’t even enter into the equation. We don’t lock everything up and pack everyone in styrofoam when someone attacks us. We go after them, or at least we used to until the Rushublicans found a way to exploit the public sentiment to invade Iraq and let the real enemy slip from our sights. The Bush administration took their eye off the ball, and the Rushublicans endorsed it. Bush and the Rushublicans endorsed fear as a tactic to drive the public into supporting their folly in Iraq. He and his administration went forth and flooded the airwaves with the dire warnings that we were ALL GONNA DIE! That swarthy brown men were all over the place, plotting to kill YOU and YOUR KIDS! The public completely missed the point that the real terrorists were in our own government, leading them using fear to manipulate public sentiment.

    If someone attacks us, we go after them. We don’t go around beating the shit out of everyone hoping to intimidate the world into leaving us alone. We don’t take away our rights in the name of national security, using the subterfuge of war to weaken freedoms in our country. Chickenshits like Attanut/GoatBoy are scared of the bad guys. They ‘respect and honor’ those they are willing to needlessly sacrifice all to further their hate of anything they are afraid of. I am not scared because I have confidence that our leaders we now have will do everything to find and bring to justice those who would attack us. You can’t prevent terrorism in a free society, you can only go after the culprits. To do that right you have to be absolutely ruthless in your pursuit of them, something that Bush absolutely failed in doing. You defeat terrorism by making sure that nobody ever gets away with it.

    You keep clinging to your bed-wetting fears there Attanut/GoatBoy, because that is all you have left. You and yours are so wedded to failure that there is nothing else you know or can do. Abject fear and total failure is all you know and that is all that you have left to grasp and comfort you.

    That alone is enough to make me smile. Suck it up bitch.

  89. 89.

    jcricket

    February 22, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    This is why the media should ignore right-wing noise machine. Not try to curry favor or engage them. The wingnuts will only be happy with the media acts as a PR/propaganda outlet for right-wing/Republican spin. They don’t want accuracy, fairness or independence (which most liberals want, even when it means Democrats look bad).

    If you’re in the media, and you have a good story, stick to it. Wingnuts will get crazier and crazier when you ignore them, but it’s all "sound and fury, signifying nothing".

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