Going back 40 years and listening to the first four Beatles albums while reading the current issue of Time. I’d forgotten the number of covers they did on the Capitol Records label.
2.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
you’re eating tunch’s new wet food and not sharing? dude, not cool.
3.
southpaw
It’s really good so far–the movie.
4.
MediaGlutton
Torturing the cat? Don’t you know cats really hate water … boarding? … /badtorturejoke
5.
Politically Lost
Lost Wife is making the Ciabatta recipe featured in the current issue of Cook’s Illustrated. (Can’t recommend Cook’s enough). Won’t be ready till tomorrow. Damn.
I’m settled into the arm chair occasionally giving Lost Dog some fits by squeaking the squeaky toy when he’s not present in the room.
Chili, fresh corn tortillas, asparagus, cauliflower, and cheap beer on the menu.
I’m also basking in some minor glory. I passed the California Bar Exam in late November and have not found solid work as an attorney yet. That is until today. I just secured enough contracting work from another attorney to justify going out on my own. It’s good to be finally making the transition after working so hard to get to this point.
I’ll be going after fraudulent mortgage contracts. There should be a hefty supply of those for litigation, especially in my area. In the Irvine Housing Blog I found that my county had the highest percentage of exotic mortgage loan originations in the Country.
Back to stir the chili pot.
6.
valdivia
I am catching a rerun of criminal minds while skimming the NYRB I think their personals at the back are hilarious.
@Politically Lost:
Yes, congratulations! Getting those people to produce the original note on some of the mortgages will probably be a career in itself.
10.
Comrade Stuck
More BSG, season two for me.
I want to live in outer space. I mean, I kinda do being American and all, but the real outer space with beautiful actresses and light speed and good views all around.
Now that George Bush is not in my face every day, there’s time to dream of such things.
If you need entertainment, Glenn Beck is having a total wacko meltdown on his show: a "war room" panel with Birchers and Randroids to talk about will happen after the coming economic collapse: THE UNIONS WILL CONTROL ALL COMMERCE! BUSINESS EXECUTIVES WILL BE KIDNAPPED IN THE STREETS OF NEW YORK CITY! MONEY WILL BE PRINTED WITHOUT DENOMINATION, BECAUSE THE VALUE WILL HAVE TO BE WRITTEN IN PEN EVERY WEEK TO KEEP UP WITH INFLATION! ONLY GOLD WILL HAVE VALUE!
I’ve been ignoring the cats all evening after the three of us caught a nice afternoon nap in the sun. We had 4" of fresh snow last night so today was an incredibly bright day.
Border’s sent me a 40% off one book coupon today so I’m heading out soon to go pick up this book that uses maps as a base point to talk about MN history. I’m kind of a nerd/junkie for this kind of thing. I’m always thinking about history (and looking at old buildings) when I drive around the state for work.
16.
Politically Lost
Thanks again.
Dennis-SGMM
Yeah, those loan docs and disclosure statements can be as crazy as RedState on a kerning jag.
Although that hilarity is tempered by trying to explain to people that had no business buying a house in the first place that their payment will explode soon and oh, by the way it was a neg am loan and they owe more on the damn thing than when they first started paying on it three years ago.
It never ceases to amaze in what buyers think they have in a mortgage and what they actually do have.
@southpaw: I agree. I was pleasantly surprised. It could have very easily been overdone and turned into a jingoistic farce, but it seemed very restrained and, well, good.
18.
BDeevDad
BTW: BDeevMom made roasted Brussel Sprouts and Garlic. Where have they been all my life?
Totally worth the $20 to get in and the $20 I spent on concessions for us.
Amazingly good movie.
22.
JL
@valdivia: I’m watching Criminal Minds also and reading the final installment the Boston Globe has been running on Ted Kennedy. The series is based on the book Last Lion The series is a tad serialized but does do a good job of covering his strengths and weaknesses.
The last installment writes about his contacts with the families in Massachusetts who lost loved ones on 9/11.
23.
demkat620
I just picked up H.W. Brands Traitor to his Class. What I have read so far is pretty good.
I heard somewhere that people are reading it as a eulogy of sorts but in reality it is his bday this weekend or some other celebration which is why they ran it.
The bad guy in criminal minds was one of the central characters on The Wire, weird to see him on another show.
I actually like serials, makes me think of the 19th century.
25.
Bootlegger
Snow here in Kentucky, got the wood stove chugging away and I’m going to pound a few beers and have a toke a little later.
Ned- if you have the option of seeing "Coraline" in 3d it is SO worth it. It’s a stunningly beautiful film that was actually made to be seen in 3d. /2 cents
Your a little ahead of me, as I’m at disc 3 2.0. I’m going to take a break for a while with other netflix movies. Getting BSG on the brain, I think.
30.
El Tiburon
Purchased the furminator.
Black cat likey, white cat no likey.
3 Clint Eastwood movies on at same time:
1. Outlaw Josey Wales
2. Unforgiven
3. Bridges of Madison County
Wonder what actor holds the record for having the most films on at same time?
31.
YellowJournalism
…torturing the cat, myself.
You know, you could go blind and grow hair on your palms if you do that too many times. At least, that’s what the nuns tell us.
32.
themis
Another exciting Saturday night… playing The Witcher with a Jerome Robbins doc on in the background. Fire blazing, beer cold and cats relatively mellow.
Except for every time I draw my sword (in the game, I swear!) one cat freaks out a little bit… then I giggle a little bit.
Yeah, I’ve found that I enjoy BSG most when taken in small doses. I’m going to cleanse my palate with some Barney Miller and Extras before starting season 3.
Me? Ah thanks for asking. Trying to redesign the control room for my studio. I thought I knew a fair bit about acoustics. Turns out I don’t know shit. Then there is all the construction details. Yikes. My head’s spinning.
If you need to do some 3-D drawing however, Google’s skech-up is pretty slick.
T.V. = Top Gear. I have a few episodes on the Tivo.
Beer = Drake’s Imperial Stout. Yum!
37.
LiberalTarian
I am reading "Making Wild Wines and Meads." Very cool! I need to get the basement organized for my fermentation projects!! :)
38.
Steeplejack
A slow, pleasant evening in the man-cave. I came home from work exhausted, went down for a three-hour doze and now have my second wind and am primed for what undoubtedly will be a marathon siege of night-owl syndrome.
Looked for something to watch have on in the background on TV, inexplicably settled on some obscure Asian soccer match on Fox Soccer Network. I think I subconsciously find their ubiquitous announcer’s voice soothing. Does that guy ever rest?! He’s on all the time, including introducing live Premiere League matches on Saturday and Sunday mornings. (Another match is just starting, and I discovered his name is Mark Rogondino. Never knew that before.)
At least I haven’t been watching Criminal Minds. Shudder. I hate that show. Talk about your fascist subtext.
39.
South of I-10
Back from the 4th parade this season and glad we have a break until Monday! It stopped raining just in time for this parade, poor little South got tagged by some big beads and is sleeping it off. I need another Abita Amber.
40.
Bootlegger
@LiberalTarian: I’m using that book right now! I made some apple wine with the last of the fall crop last year and its in the secondary fermenter right now. Check out this forum for making wine from fruit. Lots of good recipes, tips and a supportive community.
@Steeplejack: That’s actually the Pan-Pacific club championship, LA Galaxy v. some S. Korean team.
43.
gbear
The GOP/Media Complex has got to be freaking out right now.
It especially has to hurt when guys like Robert Gibbs calmly take out your arguments without even breaking a sweat. Gibbs made his pitch and then very politely but pointedly called Santelli a fool for not doing his homework . I’ve watched this clip about a half dozen times and I still want to watch it again. More of this, please.
44.
Bootlegger
@hoi polloi: These are too much:
Free moustache rides!
Lesbian, 30, wants man’s cock to play with. Also balls.
My door is always open. Mostly because I live in a barn. Farm-dwelling survivalist and rural hedge enthusiast.
If forced to commit, I’d say I feared geese more than ducks
Yeah, I got oriented when that one just started at 11:00 (my time). I came in in the middle of the previous match, and the cable box gave only "Pan Pacific Championships, Third Place, Teams TBA" for information. Chinese team and a Japanese team–I think. Like I said, I believe that I’m subconsciously attracted by the announcer’s voice, like a dog whistle. If I hear the volume spike up, I back it up on the DVR to see who scored.
And thanks for making me feel mildly less deranged and out of it because someone even remotely knows what I’m talking about. LQTM (laughing quietly to myself–not quite LOL.)
46.
zoe kentucky
hoi- Those ARE the most fabulous personals I’ve ever read.
My favorite might be this one:
"If forced to commit, I’d say I feared geese more than ducks. Man, 47. Fears geese more than ducks."
That’s it. That’s the whole ad.
47.
Bootlegger
@Steeplejack: No worries. I was wondering whether or not to mention that I was watching obscure soccer matches but I should know I can always find a fellow dork on any subject here at Balloon Juice.
I know what you mean about that announcer. He sits in the LA studio and calls about a dozen games a week from around the world. A sweet gig actually.
I’m missing Mardi Gras again–there’s nothing quite like New Orleans for Mardi Gras. South Florida can do a lot of things right, but they’ve never quite figured this out.
"Have books destroyed your life too? Shy shallow Anglophile, 34, seeks young woman to recreate timeless epic romance. Ability to ride camels, bribe border guards and write letters by whale oil lamp a must."
I am reading "Making Wild Wines and Meads." Very cool! I need to get the basement organized for my fermentation projects!! :)
I’m planting wine grapes this year. They’ll ring the back yard and side of the house. Be about three years before they start fruiting though, so I’ve got time to practice. :)
From Vines to Wines is the book I’ve been reading.
Makes perfect sense. Ever piss a Gander off? Those suckers will run you down and eat your lunch. Of course, that’s not something the average person talks about when attempting to secure a date.
This advert formally ends the period of my life I like to jokingly refer to as ‘the years I spent a lot of money on drugs’ and begins the phase I hope will be known in the very near future as ‘the weekend I had sex with that guy’. Woman, 32.
If you don’t believe an evening in my company will be entertaining enough, just come and spend fifteen minutes with me and my personal wizard. Gaze in amazement as the archimage alters your perception of reality and awakens you to world of many colours and sensations. Gurgle in delight as his top hat becomes a haven for the creatures of the secret forest. Bark in disgust as his linking rings become entangled in his hidden trouser compartment.
thanks for that. I find these so amusing it is the first thing I read whenever I get a new issue. Strangely this month there are at least 6 men, it is usually all women. A recession related phenomena?
so are we proposing the thesis that the recession will be good for dating women who read personals?
63.
Martin
Sweeeet.
The stimulus bill comes with a requirement and a technical spec (page 54) that all agencies publish grant data in ATOM format: agencies, amount, recipient, account code, and so on. Additionally, they have to publish all announcements in ATOM format as well.
It’s a small thing, but that’s sort of the point – it’s simple to do, empowers taxpayers, but finally someone actually cared enough to do it.
64.
Bootlegger
@valdivia: Or vice versa. Working women more likely to find a kept man.
@Comrade Stuck: Thanks! I have just recently gotten the Flickr bug, and I have been putting up ten years of travel photos. I would love to live in Europe (oh the trains!), but I had higher hopes before the world economy augured in.
That’s Ok. According to the GOP, Obama is going to turn America into France in a couple of years with porkulous trains and stuff.
68.
valdivia
@Bootlegger:
ah didn’t think of that. could be? the NYRB personals sample this month was mainly married men looking for, um, companions. but it is very rare for there to be more than 1 or 2 guys advertising there so definitely an anomaly.
Wonder if a wider sample size would confirm the hypothesis. that is the kind of paper I would like to read instead of the endless streams of Eva Peron/Che Guevara research my students subject me to.
69.
South of I-10
@Incertus: Weather is great, wish you were here! If you are an Abita fan, my sister in law found some at World Market in S. Florida.
70.
valdivia
fun quote of the evening, if you care to guess who it is….
Some of these areas … they may need to see some change in leadership within the community, also. For the leaders whom are looked to for guidance with the young people, that these leaders show them where opportunities are also. So they can, as I just mentioned, seize opportunities for jobs, at the same time being able to be such a strong part of their communities still. It is possible.
@Bootlegger: Awesome! Thank you. Heh. Bought some mason bees today too, and my leeks, lettuce and cabbage are growing strong … will harvest my broccoli tomorrow evening … didn’t do great, probably needed to fertilize. :) Yeah, I’m a home geek. But, kombucha is fine, and made ginger ale the other day that pretty much knocked my socks off. Might make it a little more diluted next time. :D
73.
Bootlegger
@valdivia: I understand the student paper headache. Don’t assign it if you don’t want to read it ;-)
74.
Bootlegger
@LiberalTarian: Good luck with the wine.
My battery is almost out and I just found a short in my power cord. Hopefully the IT guys will have one on Monday.
Enjoy your Sunday everyone.
yes bootlegger for years I have been trying to get my students not to write these papers but they end up writing about these subjects if I give them a free hand at all. I figure better to read a few in a class of 30 than read the same paper 30 times at the end of term (which I did when I was a t.a. and that was a major headache) if I assign the topic.
76.
LiberalTarian
@Ninerdave: We have grape vines on the *north* side of the house. Not great for making wine, but very good for stuffed grape leaves. In the spring, pick the new leaves and blanch. Dry/freeze on a cookie sheet in the freezer, when frozen hard put in freezer bags. When you use them throughout the year they’ll be very tasty and ready for dolmas. I prefer the leaves frozen to brined … but early in the year is important because later they get bitter. :)
I hate geese. When I was pregnant I was a geese magnet … I swear they were trying to eat my toes. My parents had the white Chinese geese, very aggressive, but even the Canada geese loved to chase me around the park. No, I’m all for having dogs chase them away. Freaking pests.
78.
themis
@Comrade Stuck: Scary thing? I actually got a date after being chased by a rather angry Canada goose. Although given how that relationship worked out, I’d probably have been better off if the goose caught me.
@South of I-10: Abita is readily available in a lot of places, and I live a few blocks from a not-half-bad Cajun restaurant. Ate there a couple of days ago, as a matter of fact–they do a mean sausage po-boy with sausage imported from Breaux Bridge.
@valdivia: Christ, that woman has a major short circuit in her speech center. One of these days a wire’s going to break free and that up do will burst into flames:
Some of these areas … [beeeyooooOOOP!] they may need to see some change in leadership within the community, [Bzzt!] also. For the leaders whom are looked to for guidance with the young people, [Zap!] that these leaders show them where opportunities are also. [Zzzzrp!] So they can, [Pop!] as I just mentioned, [Fizzle] seize opportunities for jobs, [Crack!] at the same time being able to be such a strong part of their communities still. [BOOM!] It is possible. [OOOoooom]
There’s your fucking sparkles shooting around the living room.
@Bootlegger: In my case, it’s that lots of students all wanted to write about the same thing. I mean, I like Robert Hayden’s "Those Winter Sundays," but not after reading 30 papers about it.
Do you know how it’s like, when you think something bad is going to happen, and then it doesn’t happen for over a year? And you think, maybe this won’t happen, but you know you are fooling yourself, because you still think it is going to happen.
And then it happens.
And then, as the best tactic always is to embrace the totality of a situation, you study it immediately. And those lingering fears about what it might look like diminish, because you know the truth, and have always acted on the square, can dispel false witness, and this is weak.
But it still takes it out of you, at least for a little while. So I’m going to drink some beer and experience the tingle. Thank you for that song earlier Laura.
84.
Phil
John, like Andy Sullivan, I see you’re still schilling for your new masters. Are you still part of the self-proclaimed "conservatives of conscience" crowd?
By the way, now that it’s the Democrats that are the ones extraordinary renditioning and bombing the shit out of Pakistan, has it become cool to you again?
Like your president, you’re a total fraud. At least you’re infinitely more qualified to be a blogger than this community organizer is to be my President. The Dow is down 2000 points since Baracky took office, the worst opening EVAH!!! and now I’m apparently supposed to be bailing out illiterate Democrats who are too stupid to read their mortgages. I also love the projected 2 trillion dollar deficit we’re expected to have.
If these are the moderate Dems John, remind me who the radicals are again? With all due respect, fuck you very much for voting for this unqualified d-bag. A year from now, when the economy is still struggling and Baracky’s approval ratings are south of 40, your apology won’t be accepted so don’t bother. Just do the right thing next time.
That is, if you can even tell the difference between right and wrong anymore. Your new masters seem to have you quite convinced that getting fucked in the ass by your government is good for you.
Pathetic John. You have lost your way.
85.
Phil
One more thing John, since you were all about lecturing us on the irresponsibilities of the evil Boooosh admin – is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion (that’s Billion, with a B) spending bill without even reading through it first? A simple yes or no will do. Did we learn NOTHING from the Iraq war resolution and the TARP bill?
blah, blah, blah, Obama bad. Blah. Blah. Blah. Stoopid Democrats. Blah. Blah. Blah. The world began on 20 JAN 2009. Bush could do no wrong. Blah. Blah. Blah.
Phil, is it that time of the month? Are you feeling not so fresh? I’ve heard that Midol can help with that and perhaps some Summer’s Eve.
Oh, and Phil, don’t worry, we’ll be able to pay off the deficit after we round up all of the conservatives like you and sell you to Kim Jong Il. That Kim, he’s just crazy for white, male Republican fuck slaves. Like the Dead Kennedys said, "you’ll work better with a gun at your back, for a bowl of rice a day." It’s the next phase of our plan, and you’re powerless to stop it. Powerless I say. Muah, hah, hah, hah.
88.
Phil
Shorter Wile E Quixote: Blah blah dodge your question blah don’t answer your question blah blah blah.
So let’s try that again: Is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
A simple yes/no will suffice.
Don’t bother saying anything if you’re not providing an answer.
I’m guessing Phil is one of those people who always believed that Bush was perfect and therefore thinks that his presumed opposites think that Obama is perfect. Sad, really.
90.
Comrade Stuck
the Democrats that are the ones extraordinary renditioning and bombing the shit out of Pakistan
Links for cases of Obama renditioning prisoners to other countries for the purpose of extracting information by torture. Rendition is something that’s been around for ever and if done legally is not a bad thing. Just more wingnut talking points. And Obama attacking the Taliban and AQ in Pakistan is something he has always said he would do.
Take some exlax and get some sleep Phil, and get some facts before coming around here with your blathering nonsense.
91.
Phil
Ned,
Getting warmer but still dodging my question.
Let’s try this slowly, mmkay? I know liberals can’t read their mortgages so consider this a public service.
Is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
A) Yes
B) No
C) I couldn’t read my mortgage so I sure as hell can’t read your question
D) I’m with Baracky and voting "present" on this one
92.
Phil
Rendition is something that’s been around for ever and if done legally is not a bad thing.
Ok, and with that you’ve just volunteered were full of shit back during the Booosh years and you’re full of shit now. Thanks for playing. You did not pass go and won’t collect 200 dollars. Maybe Baracky can bail your ass out.
Now back to my question, is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
Dude, everything Bush proposed and the Republican-led Congresses passed was probably stuff you never even bothered to read once, so suddenly discovering you were able to read government documents, while doubtless of great personal importance to your well-being, is not as unique an approach as you seem to think.
Messrs Barnes and Nobull are having a sale on DVDs. I went down there this evening and picked up Patton for 10 bucks. The Desert Rats for 9 bucks and X-15, A Bridge Too Far, Paths to Glory, Rollerball, Hell in the Pacific and Blacula for $4.50 each. Dig that funky Blacula soundtrack, it’s pure bow-chucka-bow-chucka-bow-chucka-bow-wow.
X-15 was a real find. The acting in the movie is, well, wooden would be charitable, but there’s some cool footage, and it’s amazing to realize how advanced the X-15 was. That plane was setting speed and altitude records in the 1960s that still haven’t been beaten. This despite the lack of computer aided design, advanced avionics and advanced composite materials. Plus the turn around time on the program was amazing, it took less than six years from the date the RFP was issued to the plane’s first flight. Compare this to the abysmal performance of NASA and Lockheed Martin with the X-33 program. They took five years and spent 1.3 billion dollars and never bent any metal, much less got a vehicle off the ground.
96.
Phil
Dude, everything Bush proposed and the Republican-led Congresses passed was probably stuff you never even bothered to read once, so suddenly discovering you were able to read government documents, while doubtless of great personal importance to your well-being, is not as unique an approach as you seem to think
For Christ’s sake Ned, FOCUS. I’m not a legislator and my job isn’t to read bills and then vote on them. It’s not your job either and I don’t expect it of you either. So let me dumb this down for you some more:
Is it responsible to vote (i.e. as in you’re a LEGISLATOR, i.e. as your job is to read bills and then vote on them) for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
I’ll even dumb the answer choices for you:
A) Yes
B) No
C) I couldn’t read my mortgage so I sure as hell can’t read your question
D) I’m with Baracky and voting "present" on this one
97.
Comrade Stuck
Dude, Why can’t you be like the other wingnuts and do yer trolling at a decent hour. Cripes.
Wank away, I’m going to bed.
98.
Phil
Ok so now that the answer’s crystal clear to question number 1, let’s move on to question number 2:
Was Barack Obama full of shit/lying when he said that passage of the stimulus was required "immediately" to "avert catastrophe" only to spend the next 3 days spending time with the Mrs. in Chicago after the bill was passed (after not being read by anyone) and then not actually signing it until the following Tuesday?
@Phil: You mean legislators are imperfect creatures, even and perhaps especially during moments of great national concern, and that there’s a reason to generally be aware that these imperfections might exist? You shock me, sir! I’m so wound up over this revelation I’m beginning to wonder if political action groups slant their press releases to emphasize certain points of view.
So let’s try that again: Is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
A simple yes/no will suffice.
Don’t bother saying anything if you’re not providing an answer.
No, no more than it is responsible to vote on a law that drastically expanded the power of the government in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. Tell me Phil, were you this upset when the PATRIOT act was passed? You know, the one that was steam-rollered into law back in October of 2001 and which nobody had time to read. A simple "yes/no" will suffice, but if the answer is "no" then shut the fuck up. I’m sick and fucking tired of Republican garbage like you who get all pissy about the stimulus bill, without really knowing what’s in it, but who spent eight years giving the Bush administration a pass on the PATRIOT act, the war in Iraq and their general incompetence and fecklessness.
101.
Phil
Ned,
I don’t know you but I’m VERY inclined to be you are not nearly as stupid as you sound right now. I’m not talking about party now Ned, I’m talking about fucking common sense here.
Do we have such low expectations of our legislators that we can’t expect them (or at least their staffers) to read the bills they vote on? I suppose I could give them the benefit of the doubt on a bill to rename the post office in Lincoln, Nebraska after an 18th century school teacher, but we were talking about an 800 billion dollar tax payer "stimulus" bill that wasn’t read. Now, THAT might even be defensible (ok, not really but for the sake of argument let’s play) if the very same legislators hadn’t just voted on the TARP boondaggle (without having read it) only a few months prior. I mean, does Congress deliberately repeat the stupid or does it come naturally to them?
Oh, and the actor who plays Blacula in Blacula, William Marshall also played the insane Dr. Richard Daystrom in the Star Trek episode "The Ultimate Computer". I recognized him because he has this deep and very distinctive voice. God I love IMDB.com, I’d like to think that Amazon bought it back in 1998 because I showed it to one of the marketing guys one night and told him how cool it would be if we could use it as a way to drive traffic to the site. I also love IMDB.com because it’s an easy way to settle bets, like the one for 10 dollars that I won the other day when two of my co-workers insisted that Don Cheadle was in the remake of "The Italian Job". Easiest 10 dollars I’ve ever made.
103.
Phil
No, no more than it is responsible to vote on a law that drastically expanded the power of the government in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. Tell me Phil, were you this upset when the PATRIOT act was passed? You know, the one that was steam-rollered into law back in October of 2001 and which nobody had time to read. A simple "yes/no" will suffice, but if the answer is "no" then shut the fuck up. I’m sick and fucking tired of Republican garbage like you who get all pissy about the stimulus bill, without really knowing what’s in it, but who spent eight years giving the Bush administration a pass on the PATRIOT act, the war in Iraq and their general incompetence and fecklessness.
Actually, I thought that was extremely irresponsible. As a civil libertarian, I initially hated the Patriot Act before realizing that I wasn’t really sure what I was opposing specifically since none of the doomsday scenarios ever came to pass and many of the provisions were sunset provisions anyway. That didn’t make its passage without having being read any less irresponsible however.
Trust me, Phil, I wasn’t talking about party either. And I can say that quite happily since I have never belonged to a political party and never plan to. Not my approach to life.
My approach, though, can best be described as cynicism and optimism in equal measure — the one tempers the other. That a bicameral government body with hundreds of voting members and thousands of support staff representing a massive nation of 250 million people regularly produces overarching documents, budgetary or otherwise, with god knows how many clauses and requirements and what have you that isn’t fully reviewed each and every time, even in moments of dire national import — the PATRIOT Act, as noted, is as good an example as the stimulus in this regard — isn’t surprising, sadly. Nonetheless the nation endures, and that sometimes does surprise me, but always pleasantly. Do I wish for better from Congress there? Certainly. Do I expect it? Not really. Am I going to lose sleep over it? Haven’t yet, and I’ve lived long enough to see a lot of weird shit go down.
You know, I think that trolls are the new exhibitionists. Before the internet guys like Phil, D-Chance, North Dallas Thirty and Attanut would have been wearing semen stained overcoats and hanging around public parks getting their thrills by exposing themselves to women and children. Of course the problem with doing that is that it’s a great way to get your ass kicked, either by an angry husband, boyfriend or father or by the cops, who don’t look kindly on weenie waggers. And nowadays it’s a surefire way to get yourself a place on a sex-offenders registry. But fortunately for Phil and his buddies the internet came along and now they can get the attention they crave by trolling. It’s annoying, but it’s better than Phil traumatizing any children by showing them his penis. So just remember, as long as Phil is trolling he’s keeping his dick in his pants and away from the kids.
Is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
Kind of like all the people who voted for the Patriot Act without reading it, you mean?
107.
LiberalTarian
Who exactly, called the desperate and woe be gone right wingtards? Assholes. You got what you wanted, for years, and it resulted in economic collapse. And, ever so manly, you admit your mistakes. Right, you and Ted Haggard.
@Brick Oven Bill: Obama is the perfect candidate for the hard right.
Actually, I like this idea for the LOLs. A reverse Manchurian Candidate, maybe he’s secretly a Bircher.
110.
Elie
— Good evening all —
had great catfish tonight with crispy, cornmeal crust and a nice salad…
Its interesting watching what is happening even if a bit scary.
I think after all the early criticism about the lack of a plan for the markets and banks, everyone is quietly accepting why (though not talking about it directly). There is NO easy solution, no FIX to make everything all better.
As bad as our banks are, the European banks are in worse shape.
Frank Rich has a good editorial in the Times about American denial as a quirk in our character.
Things are kinda quiet, like right in the eye of the hurricane.
Remember the worst part of the storm is on the other side of the eye.
Reminds me of old time medicine that my Grandma would talk about. Before the days of antibiotics and other aggressive (and effective) interventions, pneumonia was thought to last about ten days. If you could make it through the ‘crisis’ somewhere in that time, you could potentially make it, though it might take weeks to get strong enough to walk again. The only nursing care was comfort — being there, spongeing with cool cloths to decrease fever, offering broth and water, changing the sweat soaked sheets and waiting for the disease to run its course.
I believe we are there right now. We have no antibiotics for this disease — no easy CURE. Some parts of our national body are raving with dilerium, other parts are silent, almost comatose. We are at war with the toxic invader that grew in our body silently and with the reality of our being brought low this way. But the reality is that we don’t know what the outcome will be..
Where will we be a year from now? Will our travails wash us clear of the bullshit rolling out 24/7 from the media and what remains of our functioning political system? Will we have the strength to replace what has been lost the right way?
Tonight, Bernie Madoff and the once untouchabale captains of industry and the financial markets are alone with their thoughts. They are safe for the time being. The Santellis need to watch what they kick up. These are not those good old times when you could kick sand in the face of the people and know they would laugh along with you. Tipping things over won’t take very much effort at all….
So, unless that is your desire, everyone needs to be real careful — REAL careful. Even as things move slow, they move very fast. Lets hope the fever breaks
111.
Fulcanelli
@Phil: I’ll give you this… Congress should have made the time to read the bill, like they should with all bills they sign. Period. But that’s where it ends.
Do you have some sort of special decoder ring which tells you there won’t be any republican conservatives or independents needing stimulus money to help with their overdue mortgages. Just liberals? FTW. Where do you people get this shit? Fox News? Drudge?
You idiots still haven’t figured out that you "real americans" were used and discarded by the side of the road like a used rubber at a truck stop by Bush, Cheney and Rove and his rich capital "C" class-mates. There never was a place at his table for anybody but the uber-rich and there never will be.
If fucking Walnuts! McCain got elected the wealthy wouldn’t be paying taxes at all, and we’d all be on the road to the promised land. What a fool belieeeeeeves…
Bipartisanship! Wolverines!
112.
Dennis-SGMM
Is this the right room for an argument?
113.
Phil
Who exactly, called the desperate and woe be gone right wingtards? Assholes. You got what you wanted, for years, and it resulted in economic collapse. And, ever so manly, you admit your mistakes. Right, you and Ted Haggard.
Actually, as documented quite nicely here, 5 states were the primary cause of the foreclosure crisis and 4 of the 5 were BLUE states. The 5th was Arizona which only went red because the Rep. candidate was from…Arizona.
When President Obama discusses his $275 billion mortgage bailout, he talks as if it was a national problem, caused by a national decline in home prices. "We must stem the spread of foreclosures and falling home values for all Americans," he says. But there is no national market for homes and no national price for homes. Instead, most of the United States will pay for the folly of few.
The beneficiaries of taxpayer charity will be highly concentrated in just five states – California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida and Michigan. That is not because the subsidized homeowners are poor (Californians with $700,000 mortgages are not poor), but because they took on too much debt, often by refinancing in risky ways to "cash out" thousands more than the original loan. Nearly all subprime loans were for refinancing, not buying a home.
If you actually dig further into the data, you’ll see a lot of states did NOT enter any sort of foreclosure crisis. These were mostly red states that voted even more overwhelmingly red than they did in 2004. Coincidence? Somehow I don’t think so. But it certainly looks like responsible Americans will be bailing out largely irresponsible Democrats who couldn’t read their fucking mortgages.
Phil, you have to step back a bit and avoid oversimplification in turn — for instance, California may be a blue state but right now the housing crunch and economic downturns are absolutely devastating to certain key parts of it, like the Central Valley and the Inland Empire, both of which are noted for being pretty conservative (the new leader of the GOP Senate in California, for instance, is from Riverside County). There was a pretty good article the other day in the LA Times, I think, interviewing folks in Murietta, the hometown of said leader, where many were speaking as you do but it was interesting where the nuances crept in — one fellow spoke out angrily against bailouts and new taxes but then admitted his son-in-law was losing pay at work and might not be able to afford his mortgage without assistance, and in the end pronounced himself ‘torn’ on the matter. Which strikes me as honest — I may not agree with this guy’s general stance in life but he sounds like he’s realizing the complexity of the problem and that it’s not easily divided into a partisan breakdown for a solution. I suspect similar scenarios are being played out in many different areas right now.
115.
Phil
Do you have some sort of special decoder ring which tells you there won’t be any republican conservatives or independents needing stimulus money to help with their overdue mortgages. Just liberals? FTW. Where do you people get this shit? Fox News? Drudge?
Nationwide, foreclosures fell 10% in January, to one out of every 466 homes. But that is a "mean" average dominated by places like California and Florida. In the median state with the 25th highest foreclosure rate, by contrast, only one out of 949 homes was in foreclosure – just one-tenth of 1%. Foreclosure rates were even lower in 25 other states. In Vermont, foreclosures amounted to just one out of 51,906 homes. Foreclosure can be a personal crisis, but it is not a national crisis.
Now consider the change in home prices between the third quarters of 2007 and 2008, using the OFHEO price index – the only measure available by state. Like most of the new mortgage-relief plan, the OFHEO index covers mortgages that qualified for Fannie and Freddie financing. It excludes jumbo mortgages larger than $729,750 in high-cost areas like New York City.
As of the third quarter of 2008, OFHEO home prices were still higher than a year before in 18 states, and down less than 2% in a dozen others. Double-digit declines in home prices were confined to just four states – surprise, every one of the Foreclosure Five except Michigan.
Now is everyone who lives in the "Foreclosure Five" a Democrat? No. But do Dems have a significant majority in the major cities of the "Foreclosure Five" states where house appreciation increased the most? And do Democrats pander to these people and even create quasi government agencies to feed subprime mortgages to them?
Yes and yes. Face it deadbeat. Responsible Americans are paying off Democrats’ mortgage irresponsibility.
Here is a Federal Reserve Graphic of home value increases in 2007 for your quiver Phil. 90% of American real estate has been increasing in value, and probably still is.
I cannot find the data for 2008. So figure that one out.
117.
Dennis-SGMM
The beneficiaries of taxpayer charity will be highly concentrated in just five states – California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida and Michigan.
I’d like to think of them as middle class Americans that are unable to pay their mortgages, and I’d rather help them than watch ’em go homeless. Maybe that’s part of being an American. It is to me. But what can we expect when the wealthy investor class has been shipping so many good paying manufacturing and IT jobs overseas for so long. We’re all gonna either flip burgers or work in financial services shuffling paper?
119.
Phil
Phil, you have to step back a bit and avoid oversimplification in turn—for instance, California may be a blue state but right now the housing crunch and economic downturns are absolutely devastating to certain key parts of it, like the Central Valley and the Inland Empire, both of which are noted for being pretty conservative (the new leader of the GOP Senate in California, for instance, is from Riverside County). There was a pretty good article the other day in the LA Times, I think, interviewing folks in Murietta, the hometown of said leader, where many were speaking as you do but it was interesting where the nuances crept in—one fellow spoke out angrily against bailouts and new taxes but then admitted his son-in-law was losing pay at work and might not be able to afford his mortgage without assistance, and in the end pronounced himself ‘torn’ on the matter. Which strikes me as honest—I may not agree with this guy’s general stance in life but he sounds like he’s realizing the complexity of the problem and that it’s not easily divided into a partisan breakdown for a solution. I suspect similar scenarios are being played out in many different areas right now.
Ned, you’ll have to pardon me but I have absolutely NO sympathy whatsoever. You see, my fiancee and I are renters and have been for years and we have been SAVING to buy a house for all those years. We watched as housing prices increasingly rose well above the cost of inflation and knew that something that couldn’t stand forever, wouldn’t.
This is not something we were saying or thinking now or 3 months ago, it is something we were saying and thinking 3 years ago. I’m a fiscal conservative and unlike some DC politicians, I live my life that way too.
I’ve had to forgo many things that I may have wanted in order to SAVE up to buy a house. I’ve done this as I’ve paid my own way through grad school while working full time. This is how we used to do things in America.
Now we just ask for bailouts. Well, other people ask for bailouts. From people like me.
If you don’t think the Steve Centelli rant was genuine outrage, then you genuinely aren’t paying attention. He speaks for me and millions more out there. Liberals are right though – he may not be a majority.
Yet. But if you keep this shit up, he will be. And the backlash is going to be very very painful.
Hey, Phil, I rent too, always have — had pondered purchasing some years back but when that didn’t pan out, I decided to pay down debts and otherwise play it cool, since like you I figured prices were getting way out of hand, and the only places I could afford were in locations I didn’t want to be (like, for instance, the Inland Empire!). At this point I am completely debt free, have some savings set aside and may yet try again as values readjust and I build up more savings — assuming I am still lucky enough to do so, but for the moment I have both my main work and my side work and we’ll see where that goes. If I need the savings for more immediate needs, well, at least I do have them, then.
And that all said, I tend towards where Fulcanelli just posted about wanting to help my fellow citizens, and if it is via the imperfect means of government it is still nonetheless a means, just as taxes in general are meant to provide the sense of participation in one’s own government’s affairs along with voting. Note again what I said earlier — cynicism and optimism in equal measure, and I may be the most cynical Eagle Scout there ever was (and I am an Eagle Scout, honest to god!). People can and do make foolish decisions and you can read any number of articles and blogs and more where there are lamentations a-plenty going on on bad mortgages and bad purchases and so forth, but I can’t blame it all on them anymore than I can blame it all on the banks or mortgage agencies or whatever. I think I *can* blame it on mutating ideas of what the ‘American Dream’ as defined is supposed to be but I’ll be damned as to know what’s going to change that. Maybe this is the moment for that and it’s happening by default, in which case, well, long overdue, then.
"Yet. But if you keep this shit up, he will be. And the backlash is going to be very very painful."
Phil, I can agree with you on that. If the conservatives regain executive and/or legislative majority power in Federal Government in 2010, 12, 14, or 16, the payback backlash will make the 2000’s look like kiddie slap fights.
If the D’s hold power and win into 16, they’ve been successful in solving the problems, and they’ll stay in power as long as they (or until they) get too arrogant and piss away the good will. If they lose, there are still troubles, and the voters will desperately vote Blue to find an answer – and support just about any action they take. It won’t be petty things like putting minority offices into basement corners – it’ll be things like "don’t bother to show up to vote" and "minority power rights = GTFO of my face" that’ll be the steps to one-party unitary rule. And that scares me more than the prospect of the problems not getting solved.
123.
Phil
Ned, surely you know what "moral hazard" is? If not, please do look it up. If we start bailing out our neighbors who made bad decisions while we acted responsibly, then we encourage more of the same behavior and are actually worse off.
As individuals. As a society.
If you want to help out your neighbor who is being foreclosed on, then set up a charitable trust for them along with your other neighbors. It is NOT the duty of government to reward bad behavior or bail out failed institutions.
That’s actually the complete opposite of capitalism.
We are treading down a dangerous path.
124.
Fulcanelli
Phil, it looks like you’ve been working hard and doing everything right and are getting kicked in the teeth by the economic mess, with bailouts and so forth.
Now imagine you’ve been working for 40 or 50 years, you’re looking at retirement, you’ve got a nice nest egg stashed and lo and behold…
You wake up to the fact that Wall Street, Congress and a series of Republican presidents have been picking your pockets and financially fucking you in the ass for almost 30 years and your nest egg and your house is worth maybe half of what it was and your job you were gonna retire from got shipped to India or Taiwan.
Your pain doesn’t hold a candle to the reality of millions of Americans in this mess. You don’t have a clue what fear is compared to them. You sound like you’re in your middle 30’s.
My Mother is 70 and can’t afford to retire because her nest egg is fucked. And you blame it on the Democrats?
You shallow, selfish fuck. Typical Republican. And you lecture us on fiscal common sense?
125.
Phil
Phil, it looks like you’ve been working hard and doing everything right and are getting kicked in the teeth by the economic mess, with bailouts and so forth.
Now imagine you’ve been working for 40 or 50 years, you’re looking at retirement, you’ve got a nice nest egg stashed and lo and behold…
You wake up to the fact that Wall Street, Congress and a series of Republican presidents have been picking your pockets and financially fucking you in the ass for almost 30 years and your nest egg and your house is worth maybe half of what it was and your job you were gonna retire from got shipped to India or Taiwan.
Your pain doesn’t hold a candle to the reality of millions of Americans in this mess. You don’t have a clue what fear is compared to them. You sound like you’re in your middle 30’s.
My Mother is 70 and can’t afford to retire because her nest egg is fucked. And you blame it on the Democrats?
You shallow, selfish fuck. Typical Republican. And you lecture us on fiscal common sense?"
How dare you lecture ME on being selfish. I’m not the one who’s asking others to bail me out. I’m the one who you’re demanding bail others out.
So remind me again who’s being selfish. The one who wants to be left alone or the one who insists I give my money to people who made irresponsible decisions and reward them for doing so.
So again, remind me, WHO THE FUCK IS BEING SELFISH? You think the Santelli bit was faux outrage? You’re in for a very rude awakening pal.
A Pentagon review of conditions at the Guantanamo Bay military prison has concluded that the treatment of detainees meets the requirements of the Geneva Conventions but that prisoners in the highest-security camps should be allowed more religious and social interaction, according to a government official who has read the 85-page document.
The report, which President Obama ordered, was prepared by Adm. Patrick M. Walsh, the vice chief of naval operations, and has been delivered to the White House. Obama requested the review as part of an executive order on the planned closure of the prison at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, on the southeastern tip of Cuba.
Ned, you’ll have to pardon me but I have absolutely NO sympathy whatsoever. You see, my fiancee and I are renters and have been for years and we have been SAVING to buy a house for all those years. We watched as housing prices increasingly rose well above the cost of inflation and knew that something that couldn’t stand forever, wouldn’t.
I find it interesting that you’re so angry at the mortgage holders and not at the mortgage brokers who failed to perform anything even remotely resembling due diligence when they handed out those loans, the banks who packaged NINJA loans together with other securities and sold them as solid, risk-free investments or the ratings agencies that gave all of this shit paper AAA ratings. Actually I don’t find it interesting, you’re another right wing moron repeating the same stupid right wing talking points. Yeah, there are irresponsible assholes who bought homes that they couldn’t afford, but who loaned them the money? Why it was the irresponsible assholes at banks like Washington Mutual, who failed to perform anything even remotely resembling due diligence on huge portions of their loan portfolio. And why should they have? If they had then mortgage brokers who made those loans wouldn’t have gotten their commissions and Kerry Killinger, the CEO of the company, wouldn’t have gotten his bonuses.
But you seem to be OK with frauds like Killinger, who pushed WaMu into ARMS and sub-prime loans and away from fixed-rate mortgages so he could prop up the company’s stock value and cash in his options. Tell me Phil, shouldn’t those brokers have done their homework and made sure that these people could afford the mortgages they were taking out? I mean really, the brokers are loaning out other people’s money. If you deposited a large sum of money in a bank wouldn’t you want the people who were loaning it out to make sure that the loans could be repaid? Shouldn’t the executives who ran these companies such as Angelo Mozilo and Kerry Killinger have been aware of the potential consequences of loaning out your money, the money that you and your fiancee are saving, to these sub-prime borrowers and the idiots who took out option ARMS. I mean you say that you saw the housing collapse coming, if that’s the case then you’re a lot smarter than anyone on Wall Street, but despite that they raked in millions of dollars in compensation, you and your fiancee are still renting and you’re pissed off at the people who took these loans and not the people who made them. Sucker.
This is not something we were saying or thinking now or 3 months ago, it is something we were saying and thinking 3 years ago. I’m a fiscal conservative and unlike some DC politicians, I live my life that way too.
Oh, you mean DC politicians like George W. Bush or Dick "Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter" Cheney? Yeah, I hate those fuckers too!
I’ve had to forgo many things that I may have wanted in order to SAVE up to buy a house. I’ve done this as I’ve paid my own way through grad school while working full time. This is how we used to do things in America.
Ooooh, smell you Horatio Alger. I paid my way through college by working and serving in the National Guard, but despite that I’m not a bitter, whining little punk like you. Oh, and what did you go to graduate school in? Please tell me that it was anything but business school, because the last fucking thing this country needs is another goddamned MBA.
Oh, and Phil, you better have gone to a private school for graduate school because if you went to a public university then anywhere from 40 to 65 percent of the cost of your education was being picked up by the taxpayers of the state the school is located in, which would mean that you’re morally no better than the people demanding a bailout since you demanded that other people foot the cost for your education.
Moral hazard is something I’ve noticed is much more of a protean term than it seems on first blush — I’ve seen it used in so many different contexts at this point that I think it almost means whatever one wants it to, which might be the point in the end. It always *sounds* good, though, which might be why it’s invoked so much.
Ultimately, Phil, you see things as a worst case scenario or close to it — I do not, instead I prefer to see situations as resultant from clashing and probably irresolveable tensions, and at this point I am much more sympathetic to Fulcanelli’s outlining of what his mother is going through than anything else (I’m in my mid-30s myself — alas, rapidly approaching the late-30s stage!). Reducing this situation we find ourselves in to a blunt vision of shameless addict and resentful enabler, as you more or less put it, strikes me as unnecessarily monochromatic — and while I won’t speak to your own experience in life as Fulcanelli has (after all, I only know what you’ve shared), we must allow for variety and individual situations rather than mass assumptions, as I’m sure anyone interested in individual liberty would agree.
130.
Phil
Some of the fault lies with the lenders as well and I have never suggested otherwise. Nice straw man though. Ultimately though, outside of outright fraud, the responsibility lies with the borrowers to read the terms of their mortgage. Do you not bother to read the terms of a multiple hundred thousand dollar loan? I sure hope not.
It’s funny you mention WaMu as some sort of boogeyman for corporate greed gone unpunished given that if you do a simple Google search on wikipedia, you’d find the following:
"On September 25, 2008, the United States Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) seized Washington Mutual Bank from Washington Mutual, Inc. and placed it into the receivership of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). The OTS took the action due to the withdrawal of $16.4 billion in deposits, during a 10-day bank run (amounting to 9% of the deposits it had held on June 30, 2008). The FDIC sold the banking subsidiaries (minus unsecured debt or equity claims) to JPMorgan Chase for $1.9 billion, which re-opened the bank the next day. The holding company, Washington Mutual, Inc. was left with $33 billion assets, and $8 billion debt, after being stripped of its banking subsidiary by the FDIC. The next day, September 26, Washington Mutual, Inc. filed for Chapter 11 voluntary bankruptcy in Delaware, where it is incorporated.
Washington Mutual Bank’s closure and receivership is the largest bank failure in American financial history. Before the receivership action, it was the sixth-largest bank in the United States. According to Washington Mutual Inc.’s 2007 SEC filing, the holding company held assets valued at $327.9 billion."
In other words, WAMU doesn’t exist. But I’m still being asked to bail out these idiots today and I’m being told I’m greedy if I’ve grown tired of bailing out everyone else. Where’s my bailout for paying my taxes and being responsible?
For the record, I am pursuing a Phd in Economics, not an MBA. I am at a public school but don’t take in-state tuition. I’m starting to wonder if I should though.
Atlas shrugs.
131.
Phil
Moral hazard is something I’ve noticed is much more of a protean term than it seems on first blush—I’ve seen it used in so many different contexts at this point that I think it almost means whatever one wants it to, which might be the point in the end. It always sounds good, though, which might be why it’s invoked so much.
Again, I know a thing or two about moral hazard, being a Phd level economist. It’s not a term I generally bandy about for shits and giggles. And this mortgage rescue plan is moral hazard on steroids.
Ultimately, Phil, you see things as a worst case scenario or close to it—I do not, instead I prefer to see situations as resultant from clashing and probably irresolveable tensions, and at this point I am much more sympathetic to Fulcanelli’s outlining of what his mother is going through than anything else (I’m in my mid-30s myself—alas, rapidly approaching the late-30s stage!). Reducing this situation we find ourselves in to a blunt vision of shameless addict and resentful enabler, as you more or less put it, strikes me as unnecessarily monochromatic—and while I won’t speak to your own experience in life as Fulcanelli has (after all, I only know what you’ve shared), we must allow for variety and individual situations rather than mass assumptions, as I’m sure anyone interested in individual liberty would agree.
Just so I don’t sound reflexively anti-Obama, I wasn’t opposed to a stimulus bill, and not even a government spending bill per se (although I generally would have preferred tax breaks on things like capital investment – plants, equipment etc), I opposed what the bill was spending money on – non-stimulative things like ear marks and food stamps, geared towards consumption rather than investment.
But this mortgage rescue plan is a separate plan from the stimulus bill and it’s total shit. Don’t waste your time defending it.
Don’t you get bored with Rand, though? Setting aside anything else, she’s just not a very good writer, terrible knack for character names too. When it comes to Russians writing in English I prefer Nabokov.
133.
LanceThruster
I watched Alexandra Pelosi’s (Nancy’s daughter) "Right America: Feeling Wronged – Some Voices from the Campaign Trail" just before watching "Taking Chance."
For me it gave a stark contrast to the patriotism actually involved in being concerned about the circumstances people in uniform are sent to fight and die vs the nationalism that pretends that anyone that disagrees with the Reich Wing is a traitor. I think of types like Ann Coulter who claim to ‘love’ America while clearly despising over half its citizens.
Watching "Taking Chance" I wondered if a majority of those going out of their way to show respect to the Kevin Bacon character and the deceased were of the "my patriotism is greater than yours" variety or of truly mixed political views (the long-haired kid early on seemed as if he was likely liberal).
In the Pelosi film, one southerner said he didn’t think he (or the South) was ready for a "nigger" president. I wonder how he felt about black service personnel.
134.
Phil
Let’s put Rand aside. I suggest reading A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 by Anna Schwartz and Milton Friedman, which may be the most important and labor intensive piece of economic literature in history.
Anyway, it is time for bed for me.
135.
BethanyAnne
I really shouldn’t play with the angry people but….
Ok, in your world, food stamps are not stimulative? Really?
/confused
136.
BethanyAnne
What would Friedman recommend for a solution to a deflationary spiral? Tax cuts don’t seem of any value to the unemployed, and are only likely to be saved by the employed. So whaddya do? Looks to me like the Keynesian solutions are the only reasonable ones in this circumstance.
I’ll violate the norms of internet "debating", and admit that economics isn’t my specialty, as it is yours. However, I do know a couple of things that seem relevant. One is that economics seems to involve rational actors. I dunno what those are, but they ain’t the folk I know. Two is that any economic theory that doesn’t account for the corporations ain’t worth a bucket of warm spit.
I stopped being a conservative, and managed to work my way over to liberal about 15 years ago. The central realization behind that journey was when I figured out that corporations had a buttload more power than any government. Not the same power, to be certain, but overall, they just scare me more. I think the defining battle of the 20th century was against too much power in governments, and that the 21st will be marked by fighting against too much in the hands of corporations.
There is no bailout for you Phil because you’re stupid and worthless. How do we know that you’re stupid and worthless? Because you’re an economist, and not only are you an economist but you’re also a worthless no-load who, instead of becoming a productive member of society has chosen to go to grad school in economics.
Tell us Phil, if economics is a science and not just a complete fucking load of shit then why is it that we find ourselves in the situation we’re in today? Where were your economist buddies during the last eight years? I mean I don’t have an economics degree (I have a political science degree, but fortunately I knew a lot about computers so I never had to use it and so unlike you was able to become a productive member of society) but I could tell you three years ago that housing prices in the Seattle area were completely insane. Now if I, with my lowly BA in political science could say "Hmmmm, I think that 500k for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath house in Arbor Heights that needs work and has no view shows that the housing market is completely insane" then why is it that none of your fellow economists could do the same and go to the banks and say "Uh guys, this market is really over-valued and besides, the loans you’re making carry a huge amount of risk if there is even a slight downturn in the economy". Could it be that your fellow economists are full of shit and don’t know what they’re talking about? Could it be that a majority of economists are total whores who will say whatever they’re paid to say? Could it be that economics is about as much of a science as, oh, I don’t know, Santeria? Isn’t "voodoo economics" a redundancy?
Yet despite this you’ve chosen to spend years of your life and thousands of dollars to pursue a degree in this worthless subject. You’re such a tool, I’m laughing my ass off at what a complete and utter sucker and chump you are, and you’re apparently a Randroid as well. It is too perfect.
138.
John S.
Wow, nothing makes for an enjoyable Sunday morning read while taking a shit more than the comic stylings of Freeper Phil – wingnut extroidanaire, randroidian economist and contributor of nothing of value to message boards and society alike.
His tombstone will read:
Here lies Freeper Phil,
Until the end, GOP shill.
A victim of bad ideology,
He never failed IT, but it failed HE.
Since as an economist he adds no actual value to the economy, in an ironic twist of fate (as is often the case for ideologues), he will likely die penniless and therefore will have his funerary services paid for by taxpayers and be interred on government land.
139.
headpan
Eh, speaking of cats, I may have to get rid of two of mine. If I have to move, I can only take one. "Getting rid of" probably means hopefully finding a good home for the one with the good personality and having the other one put down. I’m not taking them to a shelter for obvious reasons. They are old, nobody will want them and they will just end up being killed alone in a scary place full of cages and other scared animals and people that don’t care about her. At least I can be there with her and hold her when she goes. I’m running out of options here.
140.
JL
Phil stated that
Some of the fault lies with the lenders as well and I have never suggested otherwise
.
Well, duh! Who exactly do you think invented the sub-prime loans? Investment banks were looking for a higher rate of return and took the risk. Mortgage brokers pushed the mortgages and took no risks.
Santelli made his money trading derivatives. I don’t think that I would use him as a role model.
LiberalTarian, I remember as a child my dad picking and preparing grape leaves. My mom would make grape jelly. Sealed the mason jars with wax. That was in New Jersey in the fifties and sixties.
142.
headpan
This is just the way it is, the way it will be. Harder choices than mine will be made, all over America. I cared so much about my fellow man, back in the day, when I had comfort and security, that I put my heart, soul and $ into netroots and the hope of change. I was not thinking of myself because I was okay. I did feel a little like Howard Beale, though, running around trying to get people to wake up. Now the problems created over the last 8 years that I tried to do something about, have come down and rested comfortably, as if to stay for a very long time, on my shoulders as well.
Flopping Aces takes the lead in the wingnuts new line of attack on Obama. He’s worst preznit ever, because he is just another Bush. The same Bush the right fought so hard against for 8 long years. And Now Obama has accomplished Bush’s fail in 5 weeks. Brilliant Watson! We have Touchdown on Planet Wingnut.!
He takes Bush’s position on warrantless wiretaps He hires cronies for political appointments
He increases the deficit by a trillion or more (and that’s just his first month!)
He stops giving detainees trials
He hasn’t closed Gitmo (issued an order to try, but Bush tried too)
He will still do renditions
He wrote caveats into his own Exec Orders to still allow for torture like water-boarding
He put a guy in charge at CIA who admits to doing 60-80 renditions HIMSELF
He sent 17000 Americans to Afghanistan w no plan and no timeline for withdrawal
He has not ordered the withdrawal from Iraq in 16 months (cause its not possible to speed up the withdrawal Bush started)
He ignored millions of Americans devastated by an ice storm in Tennesee, W Virginia, and Kentucky
He has NOT HELPED the economy one bit
He has no plan to solve even a single challenge facing his admin Oh well, at least he has a D next to his name and can read a teleprompter WORST PRESIDENT EVER
145.
bago
There is a difference between a "rendition", and an "extraordinary rendition".
See if you can spot the difference.
146.
headpan
Wow, there are little bits of this Phil person all over the place. You people have no mercy.
147.
Dennis-SGMM
My Mother is 70 and can’t afford to retire because her nest egg is fucked.
Wouldn’t someone doing post-graduate work in economics have had the common sense to advise mom to move her nestegg out of anything volatile and into something safe a few years before her retirement?
headpan, you might try asking around at senior citizen centers and the like. There are many older people who are lonely and would welcome an older, sedate cat.
150.
Dennis-SGMM
@Ned R.:
My bad. I was just catching up with this very entertaining thread this morning and that jumped out at me. I have a number of friends who didn’t get that same advice, or didn’t listen to it. I’m afraid that a lot of people are going to spend their golden years gathering aluminum cans for recycling – if the market for recycling aluminum doesn’t collapse too.
151.
valdivia
headpan I was going to suggest the senior centers as well for your cats.
152.
HRA
Headpan I am so sorry you have to make that kind of decision. According to a good friend who is active in rescues, the rescue places do a better job for placement no matter the age of the animal.
I enjoyed the read here today. There was so much truth from all who replied to Phil that I could not cite one person.
I want to add it is not the matter of Red or Blue states. That’s a very weak argument if not the weakest I have ever heard. No one asks for your political affiliation when applying for a loan. If I used that measure, I would have to be stymied since my state is blue and my town is red.
Fulcanelli, I know quite well about your mother’s situation. My husband and I have the same problem. The retirement plans are of the past now. Besides both of our retirements depending on the market, his hours were halved recently.
153.
Martin
if the market for recycling aluminum doesn’t collapse too.
It won’t now that Bill can use his microwave arc welder to start up tractor production. The manufacturing jobs problem is solved and without stimulus money! Plus, aluminum tractors will be really fuel efficient, dontchaknow, solving the foreign oil problem!
154.
LanceThruster
headpan – I too had a similar decision to make. I had a stray "porch cat" with very bad teeth (abcesses) bullying my other cats. When I took him to the shelter to be put down, they said it would be a week, even though he was clearly in distress. I wasn’t going to let him sit in a cage alone before it happened.
I took him to my vet and she asked if I would allow her to fix him ("Whitey") up for free and find him a home. I said sure. You should have seen that cat’s demeanor change when he somehow know he wasn’t walking the green mile.
I hope your dilemma is resolved in a manner that does not bring you, or your beloved pets, too much additonal pain.
I’m sorry that the thugs in charge wrecked so many things for so many people. Thank you sincerely for helping keeping things from getting much, much worse (and they easily could have).
155.
Elie
Headpan —
My heart hurts for you and your kitties. I have two old guys and I think that the suggestions given for a senior citizen’s center or a senior adoption may be workable. I don’t know though that I could give them up — Bill sits in my lap right now. He is 17 and has a hard time with stairs and anything that requires jumping…
You and you kitties are in my prayers
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Linkmeister
Going back 40 years and listening to the first four Beatles albums while reading the current issue of Time. I’d forgotten the number of covers they did on the Capitol Records label.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
you’re eating tunch’s new wet food and not sharing? dude, not cool.
southpaw
It’s really good so far–the movie.
MediaGlutton
Torturing the cat? Don’t you know cats really hate water … boarding? … /badtorturejoke
Politically Lost
Lost Wife is making the Ciabatta recipe featured in the current issue of Cook’s Illustrated. (Can’t recommend Cook’s enough). Won’t be ready till tomorrow. Damn.
I’m settled into the arm chair occasionally giving Lost Dog some fits by squeaking the squeaky toy when he’s not present in the room.
Chili, fresh corn tortillas, asparagus, cauliflower, and cheap beer on the menu.
I’m also basking in some minor glory. I passed the California Bar Exam in late November and have not found solid work as an attorney yet. That is until today. I just secured enough contracting work from another attorney to justify going out on my own. It’s good to be finally making the transition after working so hard to get to this point.
I’ll be going after fraudulent mortgage contracts. There should be a hefty supply of those for litigation, especially in my area. In the Irvine Housing Blog I found that my county had the highest percentage of exotic mortgage loan originations in the Country.
Back to stir the chili pot.
valdivia
I am catching a rerun of criminal minds while skimming the NYRB I think their personals at the back are hilarious.
Linkmeister
@Lost, Congratulations!
Politically Lost
Thanks. Such relief!
Stunningly beautiful sunset in NorCal right now.
Dennis-SGMM
@Politically Lost:
Yes, congratulations! Getting those people to produce the original note on some of the mortgages will probably be a career in itself.
Comrade Stuck
More BSG, season two for me.
I want to live in outer space. I mean, I kinda do being American and all, but the real outer space with beautiful actresses and light speed and good views all around.
Now that George Bush is not in my face every day, there’s time to dream of such things.
valdivia
@Politically Lost:
congrats. that ciabatta sounds yummy…
NonWonderDog
If you need entertainment, Glenn Beck is having a total wacko meltdown on his show: a "war room" panel with Birchers and Randroids to talk about will happen after the coming economic collapse: THE UNIONS WILL CONTROL ALL COMMERCE! BUSINESS EXECUTIVES WILL BE KIDNAPPED IN THE STREETS OF NEW YORK CITY! MONEY WILL BE PRINTED WITHOUT DENOMINATION, BECAUSE THE VALUE WILL HAVE TO BE WRITTEN IN PEN EVERY WEEK TO KEEP UP WITH INFLATION! ONLY GOLD WILL HAVE VALUE!
It’s glorious.
Ned R.
Good on ya, Politically Lost. Friend of mine also recently passed the bar here in SoCal.
Finishing up some leftover lobster, enjoying the new Depeche Mode song, thinking of catching Coraline tomorrow…
BDeevDad
This is really the way to convince me.
gbear
I’ve been ignoring the cats all evening after the three of us caught a nice afternoon nap in the sun. We had 4" of fresh snow last night so today was an incredibly bright day.
Border’s sent me a 40% off one book coupon today so I’m heading out soon to go pick up this book that uses maps as a base point to talk about MN history. I’m kind of a nerd/junkie for this kind of thing. I’m always thinking about history (and looking at old buildings) when I drive around the state for work.
Politically Lost
Thanks again.
Dennis-SGMM
Yeah, those loan docs and disclosure statements can be as crazy as RedState on a kerning jag.
Although that hilarity is tempered by trying to explain to people that had no business buying a house in the first place that their payment will explode soon and oh, by the way it was a neg am loan and they owe more on the damn thing than when they first started paying on it three years ago.
It never ceases to amaze in what buyers think they have in a mortgage and what they actually do have.
John Cole
@southpaw: I agree. I was pleasantly surprised. It could have very easily been overdone and turned into a jingoistic farce, but it seemed very restrained and, well, good.
BDeevDad
BTW: BDeevMom made roasted Brussel Sprouts and Garlic. Where have they been all my life?
cosanostradamus
.
Cat days of winter?
Fotos of boats & stuff in Hawaii.
.
Phoenix Woman
@NonWonderDog:
"Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud, hatch out!"
When will Beck finally drop the N-Bomb on his show, I wonder? Or will he leave that to one of the CNBC guys?
The GOP/Media Complex has got to be freaking out right now. As Josh Marshall and Atrios have both stated on various occasions, the members of the DC press establishment as geared to represent the views of the GOP as the default "normal" view — and the GOP is now run by brain-damaged lunatics. That’s why, when the press bends over backwards to show the GOP side, in the name of being "being fair and balanced" (as opposed to being truthful), we get bogosities like this horrific LA Times piece on the mythical "controversy" over Obama’s birth certificate.
Michael D.
Watched Slumdog Millionaire tonight.
Totally worth the $20 to get in and the $20 I spent on concessions for us.
Amazingly good movie.
JL
@valdivia: I’m watching Criminal Minds also and reading the final installment the Boston Globe has been running on Ted Kennedy. The series is based on the book Last Lion The series is a tad serialized but does do a good job of covering his strengths and weaknesses.
The last installment writes about his contacts with the families in Massachusetts who lost loved ones on 9/11.
demkat620
I just picked up H.W. Brands Traitor to his Class. What I have read so far is pretty good.
valdivia
@JL:
I heard somewhere that people are reading it as a eulogy of sorts but in reality it is his bday this weekend or some other celebration which is why they ran it.
The bad guy in criminal minds was one of the central characters on The Wire, weird to see him on another show.
I actually like serials, makes me think of the 19th century.
Bootlegger
Snow here in Kentucky, got the wood stove chugging away and I’m going to pound a few beers and have a toke a little later.
A funny.
zoe kentucky
Ned- if you have the option of seeing "Coraline" in 3d it is SO worth it. It’s a stunningly beautiful film that was actually made to be seen in 3d. /2 cents
Ned R.
@zoe kentucky: No worries, that’s pretty much the plan! A nearby theater still has it in that format so I’m going for the 1 pm showing.
KRK
Finishing up the last episodes of BSG season 2.5. Doing laundry. Trying to coax the cat to eat more.
Comrade Stuck
@KRK:
Your a little ahead of me, as I’m at disc 3 2.0. I’m going to take a break for a while with other netflix movies. Getting BSG on the brain, I think.
El Tiburon
Purchased the furminator.
Black cat likey, white cat no likey.
3 Clint Eastwood movies on at same time:
1. Outlaw Josey Wales
2. Unforgiven
3. Bridges of Madison County
Wonder what actor holds the record for having the most films on at same time?
YellowJournalism
You know, you could go blind and grow hair on your palms if you do that too many times. At least, that’s what the nuns tell us.
themis
Another exciting Saturday night… playing The Witcher with a Jerome Robbins doc on in the background. Fire blazing, beer cold and cats relatively mellow.
Except for every time I draw my sword (in the game, I swear!) one cat freaks out a little bit… then I giggle a little bit.
Ah… good times
John Cole
Update: Watching Diary of a Mad Black Woman.
themis
@YellowJournalism:
Well, he does have the furminator, so no worries.
KRK
@Comrade Stuck:
Yeah, I’ve found that I enjoy BSG most when taken in small doses. I’m going to cleanse my palate with some Barney Miller and Extras before starting season 3.
Ninerdave
Me? Ah thanks for asking. Trying to redesign the control room for my studio. I thought I knew a fair bit about acoustics. Turns out I don’t know shit. Then there is all the construction details. Yikes. My head’s spinning.
If you need to do some 3-D drawing however, Google’s skech-up is pretty slick.
T.V. = Top Gear. I have a few episodes on the Tivo.
Beer = Drake’s Imperial Stout. Yum!
LiberalTarian
I am reading "Making Wild Wines and Meads." Very cool! I need to get the basement organized for my fermentation projects!! :)
Steeplejack
A slow, pleasant evening in the man-cave. I came home from work exhausted, went down for a three-hour doze and now have my second wind and am primed for what undoubtedly will be a marathon siege of night-owl syndrome.
Looked for something to
watchhave on in the background on TV, inexplicably settled on some obscure Asian soccer match on Fox Soccer Network. I think I subconsciously find their ubiquitous announcer’s voice soothing. Does that guy ever rest?! He’s on all the time, including introducing live Premiere League matches on Saturday and Sunday mornings. (Another match is just starting, and I discovered his name is Mark Rogondino. Never knew that before.)At least I haven’t been watching Criminal Minds. Shudder. I hate that show. Talk about your fascist subtext.
South of I-10
Back from the 4th parade this season and glad we have a break until Monday! It stopped raining just in time for this parade, poor little South got tagged by some big beads and is sleeping it off. I need another Abita Amber.
Bootlegger
@LiberalTarian: I’m using that book right now! I made some apple wine with the last of the fall crop last year and its in the secondary fermenter right now. Check out this forum for making wine from fruit. Lots of good recipes, tips and a supportive community.
hoi polloi
@ valdivia
Check out the personals in the London Review of Books. They are a literary genera of their own.
Bootlegger
@Steeplejack: That’s actually the Pan-Pacific club championship, LA Galaxy v. some S. Korean team.
gbear
It especially has to hurt when guys like Robert Gibbs calmly take out your arguments without even breaking a sweat. Gibbs made his pitch and then very politely but pointedly called Santelli a fool for not doing his homework . I’ve watched this clip about a half dozen times and I still want to watch it again. More of this, please.
Bootlegger
@hoi polloi: These are too much:
Free moustache rides!
Lesbian, 30, wants man’s cock to play with. Also balls.
My door is always open. Mostly because I live in a barn. Farm-dwelling survivalist and rural hedge enthusiast.
If forced to commit, I’d say I feared geese more than ducks
I’m damned glad I’m married.
Steeplejack
@Bootlegger:
Yeah, I got oriented when that one just started at 11:00 (my time). I came in in the middle of the previous match, and the cable box gave only "Pan Pacific Championships, Third Place, Teams TBA" for information. Chinese team and a Japanese team–I think. Like I said, I believe that I’m subconsciously attracted by the announcer’s voice, like a dog whistle. If I hear the volume spike up, I back it up on the DVR to see who scored.
And thanks for making me feel mildly less deranged and out of it because someone even remotely knows what I’m talking about. LQTM (laughing quietly to myself–not quite LOL.)
zoe kentucky
hoi- Those ARE the most fabulous personals I’ve ever read.
My favorite might be this one:
"If forced to commit, I’d say I feared geese more than ducks. Man, 47. Fears geese more than ducks."
That’s it. That’s the whole ad.
Bootlegger
@Steeplejack: No worries. I was wondering whether or not to mention that I was watching obscure soccer matches but I should know I can always find a fellow dork on any subject here at Balloon Juice.
I know what you mean about that announcer. He sits in the LA studio and calls about a dozen games a week from around the world. A sweet gig actually.
Incertus
I’m missing Mardi Gras again–there’s nothing quite like New Orleans for Mardi Gras. South Florida can do a lot of things right, but they’ve never quite figured this out.
Incertus
@South of I-10: I’m so fracking jealous right now I can’t tell you.
nikita
@hoi polloi:
Those are so funny! My favorite has got to be:
"Have books destroyed your life too? Shy shallow Anglophile, 34, seeks young woman to recreate timeless epic romance. Ability to ride camels, bribe border guards and write letters by whale oil lamp a must."
opium4themasses
@hoi polloi: I went to the LRB personals and found a craigslist entry first.
Yep, I’m not that> desperate anymore am I?
Ninerdave
@LiberalTarian:
I’m planting wine grapes this year. They’ll ring the back yard and side of the house. Be about three years before they start fruiting though, so I’ve got time to practice. :)
From Vines to Wines is the book I’ve been reading.
Comrade Stuck
@zoe kentucky:
Makes perfect sense. Ever piss a Gander off? Those suckers will run you down and eat your lunch. Of course, that’s not something the average person talks about when attempting to secure a date.
AhabTRuler
I liked:
AhabTRuler
@Comrade Stuck: We have tons of geese that live in the drainage ponds. I just hiss at them and they leave me alone.
Although I am quite serious when I say: Don’t mess with the Swedish Geese, they will fuck you up.
kommrade reproductive vigor
That’s cute John. Did you get any replies?
valdivia
@hoi polloi:
thanks for that. I find these so amusing it is the first thing I read whenever I get a new issue. Strangely this month there are at least 6 men, it is usually all women. A recession related phenomena?
AhabTRuler
@kommrade reproductive vigor: You left off the best part:
valdivia
hoi polloi–those are fantastic, NYRB personals are totally 19th century compared to these. this is my favorite
Hysteric (51) on brink of locating her desire seeks grey eminence on brink of losing his potency.
Bootlegger
@valdivia: 80% of layoffs have been men.
Comrade Stuck
@AhabTRuler:
Terrific photos on Flickr. A beautiful place to live!
valdivia
@Bootlegger:
so are we proposing the thesis that the recession will be good for dating women who read personals?
Martin
Sweeeet.
The stimulus bill comes with a requirement and a technical spec (page 54) that all agencies publish grant data in ATOM format: agencies, amount, recipient, account code, and so on. Additionally, they have to publish all announcements in ATOM format as well.
It’s a small thing, but that’s sort of the point – it’s simple to do, empowers taxpayers, but finally someone actually cared enough to do it.
Bootlegger
@valdivia: Or vice versa. Working women more likely to find a kept man.
Comrade Stuck
@Martin:
And you can bet the beady eyed wingnuts will be pawing thru it with a fine tooth comb looking for Marxist conspiracies.
AhabTRuler
@Comrade Stuck: Thanks! I have just recently gotten the Flickr bug, and I have been putting up ten years of travel photos. I would love to live in Europe (oh the trains!), but I had higher hopes before the world economy augured in.
Comrade Stuck
@AhabTRuler:
That’s Ok. According to the GOP, Obama is going to turn America into France in a couple of years with porkulous trains and stuff.
valdivia
@Bootlegger:
ah didn’t think of that. could be? the NYRB personals sample this month was mainly married men looking for, um, companions. but it is very rare for there to be more than 1 or 2 guys advertising there so definitely an anomaly.
Wonder if a wider sample size would confirm the hypothesis. that is the kind of paper I would like to read instead of the endless streams of Eva Peron/Che Guevara research my students subject me to.
South of I-10
@Incertus: Weather is great, wish you were here! If you are an Abita fan, my sister in law found some at World Market in S. Florida.
valdivia
fun quote of the evening, if you care to guess who it is….
Dennis-SGMM
@valdivia:
Also.
LiberalTarian
@Bootlegger: Awesome! Thank you. Heh. Bought some mason bees today too, and my leeks, lettuce and cabbage are growing strong … will harvest my broccoli tomorrow evening … didn’t do great, probably needed to fertilize. :) Yeah, I’m a home geek. But, kombucha is fine, and made ginger ale the other day that pretty much knocked my socks off. Might make it a little more diluted next time. :D
Bootlegger
@valdivia: I understand the student paper headache. Don’t assign it if you don’t want to read it ;-)
Bootlegger
@LiberalTarian: Good luck with the wine.
My battery is almost out and I just found a short in my power cord. Hopefully the IT guys will have one on Monday.
Enjoy your Sunday everyone.
valdivia
@Dennis-SGMM:
you betcha. also.
yes bootlegger for years I have been trying to get my students not to write these papers but they end up writing about these subjects if I give them a free hand at all. I figure better to read a few in a class of 30 than read the same paper 30 times at the end of term (which I did when I was a t.a. and that was a major headache) if I assign the topic.
LiberalTarian
@Ninerdave: We have grape vines on the *north* side of the house. Not great for making wine, but very good for stuffed grape leaves. In the spring, pick the new leaves and blanch. Dry/freeze on a cookie sheet in the freezer, when frozen hard put in freezer bags. When you use them throughout the year they’ll be very tasty and ready for dolmas. I prefer the leaves frozen to brined … but early in the year is important because later they get bitter. :)
LiberalTarian
@Comrade Stuck:
I hate geese. When I was pregnant I was a geese magnet … I swear they were trying to eat my toes. My parents had the white Chinese geese, very aggressive, but even the Canada geese loved to chase me around the park. No, I’m all for having dogs chase them away. Freaking pests.
themis
@Comrade Stuck: Scary thing? I actually got a date after being chased by a rather angry Canada goose. Although given how that relationship worked out, I’d probably have been better off if the goose caught me.
Midnight snack tonight… eggs Benedict. Yum
Incertus
@South of I-10: Abita is readily available in a lot of places, and I live a few blocks from a not-half-bad Cajun restaurant. Ate there a couple of days ago, as a matter of fact–they do a mean sausage po-boy with sausage imported from Breaux Bridge.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@valdivia: Christ, that woman has a major short circuit in her speech center. One of these days a wire’s going to break free and that up do will burst into flames:
There’s your fucking sparkles shooting around the living room.
Max Headroom/Sarah Palin 2012!
Incertus
@Bootlegger: In my case, it’s that lots of students all wanted to write about the same thing. I mean, I like Robert Hayden’s "Those Winter Sundays," but not after reading 30 papers about it.
Indylib
@valdivia: Ewwww. More Caribou Barbie gibberish.
Brick Oven Bill
Do you know how it’s like, when you think something bad is going to happen, and then it doesn’t happen for over a year? And you think, maybe this won’t happen, but you know you are fooling yourself, because you still think it is going to happen.
And then it happens.
And then, as the best tactic always is to embrace the totality of a situation, you study it immediately. And those lingering fears about what it might look like diminish, because you know the truth, and have always acted on the square, can dispel false witness, and this is weak.
But it still takes it out of you, at least for a little while. So I’m going to drink some beer and experience the tingle. Thank you for that song earlier Laura.
Phil
John, like Andy Sullivan, I see you’re still schilling for your new masters. Are you still part of the self-proclaimed "conservatives of conscience" crowd?
By the way, now that it’s the Democrats that are the ones extraordinary renditioning and bombing the shit out of Pakistan, has it become cool to you again?
Like your president, you’re a total fraud. At least you’re infinitely more qualified to be a blogger than this community organizer is to be my President. The Dow is down 2000 points since Baracky took office, the worst opening EVAH!!! and now I’m apparently supposed to be bailing out illiterate Democrats who are too stupid to read their mortgages. I also love the projected 2 trillion dollar deficit we’re expected to have.
If these are the moderate Dems John, remind me who the radicals are again? With all due respect, fuck you very much for voting for this unqualified d-bag. A year from now, when the economy is still struggling and Baracky’s approval ratings are south of 40, your apology won’t be accepted so don’t bother. Just do the right thing next time.
That is, if you can even tell the difference between right and wrong anymore. Your new masters seem to have you quite convinced that getting fucked in the ass by your government is good for you.
Pathetic John. You have lost your way.
Phil
One more thing John, since you were all about lecturing us on the irresponsibilities of the evil Boooosh admin – is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion (that’s Billion, with a B) spending bill without even reading through it first? A simple yes or no will do. Did we learn NOTHING from the Iraq war resolution and the TARP bill?
Baracky may have won this round but America lost.
Wile E. Quixote
@Phil
Phil, is it that time of the month? Are you feeling not so fresh? I’ve heard that Midol can help with that and perhaps some Summer’s Eve.
Wile E. Quixote
Oh, and Phil, don’t worry, we’ll be able to pay off the deficit after we round up all of the conservatives like you and sell you to Kim Jong Il. That Kim, he’s just crazy for white, male Republican fuck slaves. Like the Dead Kennedys said, "you’ll work better with a gun at your back, for a bowl of rice a day." It’s the next phase of our plan, and you’re powerless to stop it. Powerless I say. Muah, hah, hah, hah.
Phil
Shorter Wile E Quixote: Blah blah dodge your question blah don’t answer your question blah blah blah.
So let’s try that again: Is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
A simple yes/no will suffice.
Don’t bother saying anything if you’re not providing an answer.
Ned R.
I’m guessing Phil is one of those people who always believed that Bush was perfect and therefore thinks that his presumed opposites think that Obama is perfect. Sad, really.
Comrade Stuck
Links for cases of Obama renditioning prisoners to other countries for the purpose of extracting information by torture. Rendition is something that’s been around for ever and if done legally is not a bad thing. Just more wingnut talking points. And Obama attacking the Taliban and AQ in Pakistan is something he has always said he would do.
Take some exlax and get some sleep Phil, and get some facts before coming around here with your blathering nonsense.
Phil
Ned,
Getting warmer but still dodging my question.
Let’s try this slowly, mmkay? I know liberals can’t read their mortgages so consider this a public service.
Is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
A) Yes
B) No
C) I couldn’t read my mortgage so I sure as hell can’t read your question
D) I’m with Baracky and voting "present" on this one
Phil
Ok, and with that you’ve just volunteered were full of shit back during the Booosh years and you’re full of shit now. Thanks for playing. You did not pass go and won’t collect 200 dollars. Maybe Baracky can bail your ass out.
Now back to my question, is it responsible to vote for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
Ned R.
Dude, everything Bush proposed and the Republican-led Congresses passed was probably stuff you never even bothered to read once, so suddenly discovering you were able to read government documents, while doubtless of great personal importance to your well-being, is not as unique an approach as you seem to think.
Comrade Stuck
@Phil:
No less so than Republicans destroying our economy the last 8 years. And who says you knuckleheads can read?
LOL, This is so lame it can’t be snarked. congrats!
Wile E. Quixote
Messrs Barnes and Nobull are having a sale on DVDs. I went down there this evening and picked up Patton for 10 bucks. The Desert Rats for 9 bucks and X-15, A Bridge Too Far, Paths to Glory, Rollerball, Hell in the Pacific and Blacula for $4.50 each. Dig that funky Blacula soundtrack, it’s pure bow-chucka-bow-chucka-bow-chucka-bow-wow.
X-15 was a real find. The acting in the movie is, well, wooden would be charitable, but there’s some cool footage, and it’s amazing to realize how advanced the X-15 was. That plane was setting speed and altitude records in the 1960s that still haven’t been beaten. This despite the lack of computer aided design, advanced avionics and advanced composite materials. Plus the turn around time on the program was amazing, it took less than six years from the date the RFP was issued to the plane’s first flight. Compare this to the abysmal performance of NASA and Lockheed Martin with the X-33 program. They took five years and spent 1.3 billion dollars and never bent any metal, much less got a vehicle off the ground.
Phil
For Christ’s sake Ned, FOCUS. I’m not a legislator and my job isn’t to read bills and then vote on them. It’s not your job either and I don’t expect it of you either. So let me dumb this down for you some more:
Is it responsible to vote (i.e. as in you’re a LEGISLATOR, i.e. as your job is to read bills and then vote on them) for an 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without having read it first?
I’ll even dumb the answer choices for you:
A)
YesB) No
C)
I couldn’t read my mortgage so I sure as hell can’t read your questionD)
I’m with Baracky and voting "present" on this oneComrade Stuck
Dude, Why can’t you be like the other wingnuts and do yer trolling at a decent hour. Cripes.
Wank away, I’m going to bed.
Phil
Ok so now that the answer’s crystal clear to question number 1, let’s move on to question number 2:
Was Barack Obama full of shit/lying when he said that passage of the stimulus was required "immediately" to "avert catastrophe" only to spend the next 3 days spending time with the Mrs. in Chicago after the bill was passed (after not being read by anyone) and then not actually signing it until the following Tuesday?
Ned R.
@Phil: You mean legislators are imperfect creatures, even and perhaps especially during moments of great national concern, and that there’s a reason to generally be aware that these imperfections might exist? You shock me, sir! I’m so wound up over this revelation I’m beginning to wonder if political action groups slant their press releases to emphasize certain points of view.
Wile E. Quixote
@Phil
No, no more than it is responsible to vote on a law that drastically expanded the power of the government in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. Tell me Phil, were you this upset when the PATRIOT act was passed? You know, the one that was steam-rollered into law back in October of 2001 and which nobody had time to read. A simple "yes/no" will suffice, but if the answer is "no" then shut the fuck up. I’m sick and fucking tired of Republican garbage like you who get all pissy about the stimulus bill, without really knowing what’s in it, but who spent eight years giving the Bush administration a pass on the PATRIOT act, the war in Iraq and their general incompetence and fecklessness.
Phil
Ned,
I don’t know you but I’m VERY inclined to be you are not nearly as stupid as you sound right now. I’m not talking about party now Ned, I’m talking about fucking common sense here.
Do we have such low expectations of our legislators that we can’t expect them (or at least their staffers) to read the bills they vote on? I suppose I could give them the benefit of the doubt on a bill to rename the post office in Lincoln, Nebraska after an 18th century school teacher, but we were talking about an 800 billion dollar tax payer "stimulus" bill that wasn’t read. Now, THAT might even be defensible (ok, not really but for the sake of argument let’s play) if the very same legislators hadn’t just voted on the TARP boondaggle (without having read it) only a few months prior. I mean, does Congress deliberately repeat the stupid or does it come naturally to them?
Wile E. Quixote
Oh, and the actor who plays Blacula in Blacula, William Marshall also played the insane Dr. Richard Daystrom in the Star Trek episode "The Ultimate Computer". I recognized him because he has this deep and very distinctive voice. God I love IMDB.com, I’d like to think that Amazon bought it back in 1998 because I showed it to one of the marketing guys one night and told him how cool it would be if we could use it as a way to drive traffic to the site. I also love IMDB.com because it’s an easy way to settle bets, like the one for 10 dollars that I won the other day when two of my co-workers insisted that Don Cheadle was in the remake of "The Italian Job". Easiest 10 dollars I’ve ever made.
Phil
Actually, I thought that was extremely irresponsible. As a civil libertarian, I initially hated the Patriot Act before realizing that I wasn’t really sure what I was opposing specifically since none of the doomsday scenarios ever came to pass and many of the provisions were sunset provisions anyway. That didn’t make its passage without having being read any less irresponsible however.
Ned R.
Trust me, Phil, I wasn’t talking about party either. And I can say that quite happily since I have never belonged to a political party and never plan to. Not my approach to life.
My approach, though, can best be described as cynicism and optimism in equal measure — the one tempers the other. That a bicameral government body with hundreds of voting members and thousands of support staff representing a massive nation of 250 million people regularly produces overarching documents, budgetary or otherwise, with god knows how many clauses and requirements and what have you that isn’t fully reviewed each and every time, even in moments of dire national import — the PATRIOT Act, as noted, is as good an example as the stimulus in this regard — isn’t surprising, sadly. Nonetheless the nation endures, and that sometimes does surprise me, but always pleasantly. Do I wish for better from Congress there? Certainly. Do I expect it? Not really. Am I going to lose sleep over it? Haven’t yet, and I’ve lived long enough to see a lot of weird shit go down.
Wile E. Quixote
You know, I think that trolls are the new exhibitionists. Before the internet guys like Phil, D-Chance, North Dallas Thirty and Attanut would have been wearing semen stained overcoats and hanging around public parks getting their thrills by exposing themselves to women and children. Of course the problem with doing that is that it’s a great way to get your ass kicked, either by an angry husband, boyfriend or father or by the cops, who don’t look kindly on weenie waggers. And nowadays it’s a surefire way to get yourself a place on a sex-offenders registry. But fortunately for Phil and his buddies the internet came along and now they can get the attention they crave by trolling. It’s annoying, but it’s better than Phil traumatizing any children by showing them his penis. So just remember, as long as Phil is trolling he’s keeping his dick in his pants and away from the kids.
Comrade Kevin
@Phil:
Kind of like all the people who voted for the Patriot Act without reading it, you mean?
LiberalTarian
Who exactly, called the desperate and woe be gone right wingtards? Assholes. You got what you wanted, for years, and it resulted in economic collapse. And, ever so manly, you admit your mistakes. Right, you and Ted Haggard.
Brick Oven Bill
Phil; Obama is the perfect candidate for the hard right. It is pretty clear to me that the guy was not Constitutionally seated, so everything done these days has an asterisk behind it. The problems are bigger than his office, so there is going to be a backlash. We will define it here: The Backlash of Hope © 2009.
So, chill out, read this, and learn to grow potatoes. John runs a very good blog. I enjoy it at least.
Ned R.
@Brick Oven Bill: Obama is the perfect candidate for the hard right.
Actually, I like this idea for the LOLs. A reverse Manchurian Candidate, maybe he’s secretly a Bircher.
Elie
— Good evening all —
had great catfish tonight with crispy, cornmeal crust and a nice salad…
Its interesting watching what is happening even if a bit scary.
I think after all the early criticism about the lack of a plan for the markets and banks, everyone is quietly accepting why (though not talking about it directly). There is NO easy solution, no FIX to make everything all better.
As bad as our banks are, the European banks are in worse shape.
Frank Rich has a good editorial in the Times about American denial as a quirk in our character.
Things are kinda quiet, like right in the eye of the hurricane.
Remember the worst part of the storm is on the other side of the eye.
Reminds me of old time medicine that my Grandma would talk about. Before the days of antibiotics and other aggressive (and effective) interventions, pneumonia was thought to last about ten days. If you could make it through the ‘crisis’ somewhere in that time, you could potentially make it, though it might take weeks to get strong enough to walk again. The only nursing care was comfort — being there, spongeing with cool cloths to decrease fever, offering broth and water, changing the sweat soaked sheets and waiting for the disease to run its course.
I believe we are there right now. We have no antibiotics for this disease — no easy CURE. Some parts of our national body are raving with dilerium, other parts are silent, almost comatose. We are at war with the toxic invader that grew in our body silently and with the reality of our being brought low this way. But the reality is that we don’t know what the outcome will be..
Where will we be a year from now? Will our travails wash us clear of the bullshit rolling out 24/7 from the media and what remains of our functioning political system? Will we have the strength to replace what has been lost the right way?
Tonight, Bernie Madoff and the once untouchabale captains of industry and the financial markets are alone with their thoughts. They are safe for the time being. The Santellis need to watch what they kick up. These are not those good old times when you could kick sand in the face of the people and know they would laugh along with you. Tipping things over won’t take very much effort at all….
So, unless that is your desire, everyone needs to be real careful — REAL careful. Even as things move slow, they move very fast. Lets hope the fever breaks
Fulcanelli
@Phil: I’ll give you this… Congress should have made the time to read the bill, like they should with all bills they sign. Period. But that’s where it ends.
Do you have some sort of special decoder ring which tells you there won’t be any republican conservatives or independents needing stimulus money to help with their overdue mortgages. Just liberals? FTW. Where do you people get this shit? Fox News? Drudge?
You idiots still haven’t figured out that you "real americans" were used and discarded by the side of the road like a used rubber at a truck stop by Bush, Cheney and Rove and his rich capital "C" class-mates. There never was a place at his table for anybody but the uber-rich and there never will be.
If fucking Walnuts! McCain got elected the wealthy wouldn’t be paying taxes at all, and we’d all be on the road to the promised land. What a fool belieeeeeeves…
Bipartisanship! Wolverines!
Dennis-SGMM
Is this the right room for an argument?
Phil
Actually, as documented quite nicely here, 5 states were the primary cause of the foreclosure crisis and 4 of the 5 were BLUE states. The 5th was Arizona which only went red because the Rep. candidate was from…Arizona.
If you actually dig further into the data, you’ll see a lot of states did NOT enter any sort of foreclosure crisis. These were mostly red states that voted even more overwhelmingly red than they did in 2004. Coincidence? Somehow I don’t think so. But it certainly looks like responsible Americans will be bailing out largely irresponsible Democrats who couldn’t read their fucking mortgages.
Ned R.
Phil, you have to step back a bit and avoid oversimplification in turn — for instance, California may be a blue state but right now the housing crunch and economic downturns are absolutely devastating to certain key parts of it, like the Central Valley and the Inland Empire, both of which are noted for being pretty conservative (the new leader of the GOP Senate in California, for instance, is from Riverside County). There was a pretty good article the other day in the LA Times, I think, interviewing folks in Murietta, the hometown of said leader, where many were speaking as you do but it was interesting where the nuances crept in — one fellow spoke out angrily against bailouts and new taxes but then admitted his son-in-law was losing pay at work and might not be able to afford his mortgage without assistance, and in the end pronounced himself ‘torn’ on the matter. Which strikes me as honest — I may not agree with this guy’s general stance in life but he sounds like he’s realizing the complexity of the problem and that it’s not easily divided into a partisan breakdown for a solution. I suspect similar scenarios are being played out in many different areas right now.
Phil
Here again is your fucking decoder ring:
Brick Oven Bill
Here is a Federal Reserve Graphic of home value increases in 2007 for your quiver Phil. 90% of American real estate has been increasing in value, and probably still is.
I cannot find the data for 2008. So figure that one out.
Dennis-SGMM
Would these be the same Blue States that have been providing taxpayer charity to beneficiaries highly concentrated in the Red States for decades? I’d guess the amount of Blue State tax dollars that have been shifted to the Red States over time adds up to a hell of a lot more than 75Bn.
Fulcanelli
I’d like to think of them as middle class Americans that are unable to pay their mortgages, and I’d rather help them than watch ’em go homeless. Maybe that’s part of being an American. It is to me. But what can we expect when the wealthy investor class has been shipping so many good paying manufacturing and IT jobs overseas for so long. We’re all gonna either flip burgers or work in financial services shuffling paper?
Phil
Ned, you’ll have to pardon me but I have absolutely NO sympathy whatsoever. You see, my fiancee and I are renters and have been for years and we have been SAVING to buy a house for all those years. We watched as housing prices increasingly rose well above the cost of inflation and knew that something that couldn’t stand forever, wouldn’t.
This is not something we were saying or thinking now or 3 months ago, it is something we were saying and thinking 3 years ago. I’m a fiscal conservative and unlike some DC politicians, I live my life that way too.
I’ve had to forgo many things that I may have wanted in order to SAVE up to buy a house. I’ve done this as I’ve paid my own way through grad school while working full time. This is how we used to do things in America.
Now we just ask for bailouts. Well, other people ask for bailouts. From people like me.
If you don’t think the Steve Centelli rant was genuine outrage, then you genuinely aren’t paying attention. He speaks for me and millions more out there. Liberals are right though – he may not be a majority.
Yet. But if you keep this shit up, he will be. And the backlash is going to be very very painful.
Ned R.
Hey, Phil, I rent too, always have — had pondered purchasing some years back but when that didn’t pan out, I decided to pay down debts and otherwise play it cool, since like you I figured prices were getting way out of hand, and the only places I could afford were in locations I didn’t want to be (like, for instance, the Inland Empire!). At this point I am completely debt free, have some savings set aside and may yet try again as values readjust and I build up more savings — assuming I am still lucky enough to do so, but for the moment I have both my main work and my side work and we’ll see where that goes. If I need the savings for more immediate needs, well, at least I do have them, then.
And that all said, I tend towards where Fulcanelli just posted about wanting to help my fellow citizens, and if it is via the imperfect means of government it is still nonetheless a means, just as taxes in general are meant to provide the sense of participation in one’s own government’s affairs along with voting. Note again what I said earlier — cynicism and optimism in equal measure, and I may be the most cynical Eagle Scout there ever was (and I am an Eagle Scout, honest to god!). People can and do make foolish decisions and you can read any number of articles and blogs and more where there are lamentations a-plenty going on on bad mortgages and bad purchases and so forth, but I can’t blame it all on them anymore than I can blame it all on the banks or mortgage agencies or whatever. I think I *can* blame it on mutating ideas of what the ‘American Dream’ as defined is supposed to be but I’ll be damned as to know what’s going to change that. Maybe this is the moment for that and it’s happening by default, in which case, well, long overdue, then.
Brick Oven Bill
Making an arc welder out of two old microwaves and ten gauge wire.
Rommie
"Yet. But if you keep this shit up, he will be. And the backlash is going to be very very painful."
Phil, I can agree with you on that. If the conservatives regain executive and/or legislative majority power in Federal Government in 2010, 12, 14, or 16, the payback backlash will make the 2000’s look like kiddie slap fights.
If the D’s hold power and win into 16, they’ve been successful in solving the problems, and they’ll stay in power as long as they (or until they) get too arrogant and piss away the good will. If they lose, there are still troubles, and the voters will desperately vote Blue to find an answer – and support just about any action they take. It won’t be petty things like putting minority offices into basement corners – it’ll be things like "don’t bother to show up to vote" and "minority power rights = GTFO of my face" that’ll be the steps to one-party unitary rule. And that scares me more than the prospect of the problems not getting solved.
Phil
Ned, surely you know what "moral hazard" is? If not, please do look it up. If we start bailing out our neighbors who made bad decisions while we acted responsibly, then we encourage more of the same behavior and are actually worse off.
As individuals. As a society.
If you want to help out your neighbor who is being foreclosed on, then set up a charitable trust for them along with your other neighbors. It is NOT the duty of government to reward bad behavior or bail out failed institutions.
That’s actually the complete opposite of capitalism.
We are treading down a dangerous path.
Fulcanelli
Phil, it looks like you’ve been working hard and doing everything right and are getting kicked in the teeth by the economic mess, with bailouts and so forth.
Now imagine you’ve been working for 40 or 50 years, you’re looking at retirement, you’ve got a nice nest egg stashed and lo and behold…
You wake up to the fact that Wall Street, Congress and a series of Republican presidents have been picking your pockets and financially fucking you in the ass for almost 30 years and your nest egg and your house is worth maybe half of what it was and your job you were gonna retire from got shipped to India or Taiwan.
Your pain doesn’t hold a candle to the reality of millions of Americans in this mess. You don’t have a clue what fear is compared to them. You sound like you’re in your middle 30’s.
My Mother is 70 and can’t afford to retire because her nest egg is fucked. And you blame it on the Democrats?
You shallow, selfish fuck. Typical Republican. And you lecture us on fiscal common sense?
Phil
How dare you lecture ME on being selfish. I’m not the one who’s asking others to bail me out. I’m the one who you’re demanding bail others out.
So remind me again who’s being selfish. The one who wants to be left alone or the one who insists I give my money to people who made irresponsible decisions and reward them for doing so.
So again, remind me, WHO THE FUCK IS BEING SELFISH? You think the Santelli bit was faux outrage? You’re in for a very rude awakening pal.
Phil
More fun fraud from the Democrats:
Remember when they told us Guantanamo Bay was a giant torture chamber?
Wile E. Quixote
I find it interesting that you’re so angry at the mortgage holders and not at the mortgage brokers who failed to perform anything even remotely resembling due diligence when they handed out those loans, the banks who packaged NINJA loans together with other securities and sold them as solid, risk-free investments or the ratings agencies that gave all of this shit paper AAA ratings. Actually I don’t find it interesting, you’re another right wing moron repeating the same stupid right wing talking points. Yeah, there are irresponsible assholes who bought homes that they couldn’t afford, but who loaned them the money? Why it was the irresponsible assholes at banks like Washington Mutual, who failed to perform anything even remotely resembling due diligence on huge portions of their loan portfolio. And why should they have? If they had then mortgage brokers who made those loans wouldn’t have gotten their commissions and Kerry Killinger, the CEO of the company, wouldn’t have gotten his bonuses.
But you seem to be OK with frauds like Killinger, who pushed WaMu into ARMS and sub-prime loans and away from fixed-rate mortgages so he could prop up the company’s stock value and cash in his options. Tell me Phil, shouldn’t those brokers have done their homework and made sure that these people could afford the mortgages they were taking out? I mean really, the brokers are loaning out other people’s money. If you deposited a large sum of money in a bank wouldn’t you want the people who were loaning it out to make sure that the loans could be repaid? Shouldn’t the executives who ran these companies such as Angelo Mozilo and Kerry Killinger have been aware of the potential consequences of loaning out your money, the money that you and your fiancee are saving, to these sub-prime borrowers and the idiots who took out option ARMS. I mean you say that you saw the housing collapse coming, if that’s the case then you’re a lot smarter than anyone on Wall Street, but despite that they raked in millions of dollars in compensation, you and your fiancee are still renting and you’re pissed off at the people who took these loans and not the people who made them. Sucker.
Oh, you mean DC politicians like George W. Bush or Dick "Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter" Cheney? Yeah, I hate those fuckers too!
Ooooh, smell you Horatio Alger. I paid my way through college by working and serving in the National Guard, but despite that I’m not a bitter, whining little punk like you. Oh, and what did you go to graduate school in? Please tell me that it was anything but business school, because the last fucking thing this country needs is another goddamned MBA.
Wile E. Quixote
Oh, and Phil, you better have gone to a private school for graduate school because if you went to a public university then anywhere from 40 to 65 percent of the cost of your education was being picked up by the taxpayers of the state the school is located in, which would mean that you’re morally no better than the people demanding a bailout since you demanded that other people foot the cost for your education.
Ned R.
Moral hazard is something I’ve noticed is much more of a protean term than it seems on first blush — I’ve seen it used in so many different contexts at this point that I think it almost means whatever one wants it to, which might be the point in the end. It always *sounds* good, though, which might be why it’s invoked so much.
Ultimately, Phil, you see things as a worst case scenario or close to it — I do not, instead I prefer to see situations as resultant from clashing and probably irresolveable tensions, and at this point I am much more sympathetic to Fulcanelli’s outlining of what his mother is going through than anything else (I’m in my mid-30s myself — alas, rapidly approaching the late-30s stage!). Reducing this situation we find ourselves in to a blunt vision of shameless addict and resentful enabler, as you more or less put it, strikes me as unnecessarily monochromatic — and while I won’t speak to your own experience in life as Fulcanelli has (after all, I only know what you’ve shared), we must allow for variety and individual situations rather than mass assumptions, as I’m sure anyone interested in individual liberty would agree.
Phil
Some of the fault lies with the lenders as well and I have never suggested otherwise. Nice straw man though. Ultimately though, outside of outright fraud, the responsibility lies with the borrowers to read the terms of their mortgage. Do you not bother to read the terms of a multiple hundred thousand dollar loan? I sure hope not.
It’s funny you mention WaMu as some sort of boogeyman for corporate greed gone unpunished given that if you do a simple Google search on wikipedia, you’d find the following:
"On September 25, 2008, the United States Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) seized Washington Mutual Bank from Washington Mutual, Inc. and placed it into the receivership of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). The OTS took the action due to the withdrawal of $16.4 billion in deposits, during a 10-day bank run (amounting to 9% of the deposits it had held on June 30, 2008). The FDIC sold the banking subsidiaries (minus unsecured debt or equity claims) to JPMorgan Chase for $1.9 billion, which re-opened the bank the next day. The holding company, Washington Mutual, Inc. was left with $33 billion assets, and $8 billion debt, after being stripped of its banking subsidiary by the FDIC. The next day, September 26, Washington Mutual, Inc. filed for Chapter 11 voluntary bankruptcy in Delaware, where it is incorporated.
Washington Mutual Bank’s closure and receivership is the largest bank failure in American financial history. Before the receivership action, it was the sixth-largest bank in the United States. According to Washington Mutual Inc.’s 2007 SEC filing, the holding company held assets valued at $327.9 billion."
In other words, WAMU doesn’t exist. But I’m still being asked to bail out these idiots today and I’m being told I’m greedy if I’ve grown tired of bailing out everyone else. Where’s my bailout for paying my taxes and being responsible?
For the record, I am pursuing a Phd in Economics, not an MBA. I am at a public school but don’t take in-state tuition. I’m starting to wonder if I should though.
Atlas shrugs.
Phil
Again, I know a thing or two about moral hazard, being a Phd level economist. It’s not a term I generally bandy about for shits and giggles. And this mortgage rescue plan is moral hazard on steroids.
Just so I don’t sound reflexively anti-Obama, I wasn’t opposed to a stimulus bill, and not even a government spending bill per se (although I generally would have preferred tax breaks on things like capital investment – plants, equipment etc), I opposed what the bill was spending money on – non-stimulative things like ear marks and food stamps, geared towards consumption rather than investment.
But this mortgage rescue plan is a separate plan from the stimulus bill and it’s total shit. Don’t waste your time defending it.
Ned R.
Don’t you get bored with Rand, though? Setting aside anything else, she’s just not a very good writer, terrible knack for character names too. When it comes to Russians writing in English I prefer Nabokov.
LanceThruster
I watched Alexandra Pelosi’s (Nancy’s daughter) "Right America: Feeling Wronged – Some Voices from the Campaign Trail" just before watching "Taking Chance."
For me it gave a stark contrast to the patriotism actually involved in being concerned about the circumstances people in uniform are sent to fight and die vs the nationalism that pretends that anyone that disagrees with the Reich Wing is a traitor. I think of types like Ann Coulter who claim to ‘love’ America while clearly despising over half its citizens.
Watching "Taking Chance" I wondered if a majority of those going out of their way to show respect to the Kevin Bacon character and the deceased were of the "my patriotism is greater than yours" variety or of truly mixed political views (the long-haired kid early on seemed as if he was likely liberal).
In the Pelosi film, one southerner said he didn’t think he (or the South) was ready for a "nigger" president. I wonder how he felt about black service personnel.
Phil
Let’s put Rand aside. I suggest reading A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 by Anna Schwartz and Milton Friedman, which may be the most important and labor intensive piece of economic literature in history.
Anyway, it is time for bed for me.
BethanyAnne
I really shouldn’t play with the angry people but….
Ok, in your world, food stamps are not stimulative? Really?
/confused
BethanyAnne
What would Friedman recommend for a solution to a deflationary spiral? Tax cuts don’t seem of any value to the unemployed, and are only likely to be saved by the employed. So whaddya do? Looks to me like the Keynesian solutions are the only reasonable ones in this circumstance.
I’ll violate the norms of internet "debating", and admit that economics isn’t my specialty, as it is yours. However, I do know a couple of things that seem relevant. One is that economics seems to involve rational actors. I dunno what those are, but they ain’t the folk I know. Two is that any economic theory that doesn’t account for the corporations ain’t worth a bucket of warm spit.
I stopped being a conservative, and managed to work my way over to liberal about 15 years ago. The central realization behind that journey was when I figured out that corporations had a buttload more power than any government. Not the same power, to be certain, but overall, they just scare me more. I think the defining battle of the 20th century was against too much power in governments, and that the 21st will be marked by fighting against too much in the hands of corporations.
Wile E. Quixote
There is no bailout for you Phil because you’re stupid and worthless. How do we know that you’re stupid and worthless? Because you’re an economist, and not only are you an economist but you’re also a worthless no-load who, instead of becoming a productive member of society has chosen to go to grad school in economics.
Tell us Phil, if economics is a science and not just a complete fucking load of shit then why is it that we find ourselves in the situation we’re in today? Where were your economist buddies during the last eight years? I mean I don’t have an economics degree (I have a political science degree, but fortunately I knew a lot about computers so I never had to use it and so unlike you was able to become a productive member of society) but I could tell you three years ago that housing prices in the Seattle area were completely insane. Now if I, with my lowly BA in political science could say "Hmmmm, I think that 500k for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath house in Arbor Heights that needs work and has no view shows that the housing market is completely insane" then why is it that none of your fellow economists could do the same and go to the banks and say "Uh guys, this market is really over-valued and besides, the loans you’re making carry a huge amount of risk if there is even a slight downturn in the economy". Could it be that your fellow economists are full of shit and don’t know what they’re talking about? Could it be that a majority of economists are total whores who will say whatever they’re paid to say? Could it be that economics is about as much of a science as, oh, I don’t know, Santeria? Isn’t "voodoo economics" a redundancy?
Yet despite this you’ve chosen to spend years of your life and thousands of dollars to pursue a degree in this worthless subject. You’re such a tool, I’m laughing my ass off at what a complete and utter sucker and chump you are, and you’re apparently a Randroid as well. It is too perfect.
John S.
Wow, nothing makes for an enjoyable Sunday morning read while taking a shit more than the comic stylings of Freeper Phil – wingnut extroidanaire, randroidian economist and contributor of nothing of value to message boards and society alike.
His tombstone will read:
Since as an economist he adds no actual value to the economy, in an ironic twist of fate (as is often the case for ideologues), he will likely die penniless and therefore will have his funerary services paid for by taxpayers and be interred on government land.
headpan
Eh, speaking of cats, I may have to get rid of two of mine. If I have to move, I can only take one. "Getting rid of" probably means hopefully finding a good home for the one with the good personality and having the other one put down. I’m not taking them to a shelter for obvious reasons. They are old, nobody will want them and they will just end up being killed alone in a scary place full of cages and other scared animals and people that don’t care about her. At least I can be there with her and hold her when she goes. I’m running out of options here.
JL
Phil stated that
.
Well, duh! Who exactly do you think invented the sub-prime loans? Investment banks were looking for a higher rate of return and took the risk. Mortgage brokers pushed the mortgages and took no risks.
Santelli made his money trading derivatives. I don’t think that I would use him as a role model.
Bob In Pacifica
LiberalTarian, I remember as a child my dad picking and preparing grape leaves. My mom would make grape jelly. Sealed the mason jars with wax. That was in New Jersey in the fifties and sixties.
headpan
This is just the way it is, the way it will be. Harder choices than mine will be made, all over America. I cared so much about my fellow man, back in the day, when I had comfort and security, that I put my heart, soul and $ into netroots and the hope of change. I was not thinking of myself because I was okay. I did feel a little like Howard Beale, though, running around trying to get people to wake up. Now the problems created over the last 8 years that I tried to do something about, have come down and rested comfortably, as if to stay for a very long time, on my shoulders as well.
neddie jingo
I once submitted a NYRB Personals ad myself…)
Comrade Stuck
Flopping Aces takes the lead in the wingnuts new line of attack on Obama. He’s worst preznit ever, because he is just another Bush. The same Bush the right fought so hard against for 8 long years. And Now Obama has accomplished Bush’s fail in 5 weeks. Brilliant Watson! We have Touchdown on Planet Wingnut.!
bago
There is a difference between a "rendition", and an "extraordinary rendition".
See if you can spot the difference.
headpan
Wow, there are little bits of this Phil person all over the place. You people have no mercy.
Dennis-SGMM
Wouldn’t someone doing post-graduate work in economics have had the common sense to advise mom to move her nestegg out of anything volatile and into something safe a few years before her retirement?
Ned R.
Dennis, that’s actually from Fulnacelli; the quote bit makes it seem like Phil said that but read upthread a bit.
WereBear
headpan, you might try asking around at senior citizen centers and the like. There are many older people who are lonely and would welcome an older, sedate cat.
Dennis-SGMM
@Ned R.:
My bad. I was just catching up with this very entertaining thread this morning and that jumped out at me. I have a number of friends who didn’t get that same advice, or didn’t listen to it. I’m afraid that a lot of people are going to spend their golden years gathering aluminum cans for recycling – if the market for recycling aluminum doesn’t collapse too.
valdivia
headpan I was going to suggest the senior centers as well for your cats.
HRA
Headpan I am so sorry you have to make that kind of decision. According to a good friend who is active in rescues, the rescue places do a better job for placement no matter the age of the animal.
I enjoyed the read here today. There was so much truth from all who replied to Phil that I could not cite one person.
I want to add it is not the matter of Red or Blue states. That’s a very weak argument if not the weakest I have ever heard. No one asks for your political affiliation when applying for a loan. If I used that measure, I would have to be stymied since my state is blue and my town is red.
Fulcanelli, I know quite well about your mother’s situation. My husband and I have the same problem. The retirement plans are of the past now. Besides both of our retirements depending on the market, his hours were halved recently.
Martin
It won’t now that Bill can use his microwave arc welder to start up tractor production. The manufacturing jobs problem is solved and without stimulus money! Plus, aluminum tractors will be really fuel efficient, dontchaknow, solving the foreign oil problem!
LanceThruster
headpan – I too had a similar decision to make. I had a stray "porch cat" with very bad teeth (abcesses) bullying my other cats. When I took him to the shelter to be put down, they said it would be a week, even though he was clearly in distress. I wasn’t going to let him sit in a cage alone before it happened.
I took him to my vet and she asked if I would allow her to fix him ("Whitey") up for free and find him a home. I said sure. You should have seen that cat’s demeanor change when he somehow know he wasn’t walking the green mile.
I hope your dilemma is resolved in a manner that does not bring you, or your beloved pets, too much additonal pain.
I’m sorry that the thugs in charge wrecked so many things for so many people. Thank you sincerely for helping keeping things from getting much, much worse (and they easily could have).
Elie
Headpan —
My heart hurts for you and your kitties. I have two old guys and I think that the suggestions given for a senior citizen’s center or a senior adoption may be workable. I don’t know though that I could give them up — Bill sits in my lap right now. He is 17 and has a hard time with stairs and anything that requires jumping…
You and you kitties are in my prayers