The US is pulling out of Durban II citing problems with anti-Israel language, and this causes Captain Ed to remark:
We have to see what Obama says formally about the withdrawal, but perhaps we can expect Stephen Harper to issue a four-word statement on behalf of Canada: I told you so. In fact, the man who benefits most from this might be Harper, who took a lot of heat in Canada for his decision to stay out of Durban after the prep work revealed Durban II to be a sequel in every context. Obama had to learn that the hard way.
I sometimes wonder how these guys tie their shoes. During the campaign, if you remember, one of the big flare-up and ridiculous talking points about Obama was that he was going to meet with leaders of rogue nations, and there was much nonsense about giving in to terrorists and blah blah blah. I’m too lazy to look at every individual post, but I am sure Captain Ed was part of the hooplah.
As it was noted then, it is still true now. Meeting with people, talking with people, and giving people a chance does not mean you simply acquiesce to them. You negotiate with them in good faith, and if that is met with bad faith, you simply move on. Strong nations, confident nations, and confident leaders can do this.
This is what has happened here and this is what happened with the negotiations with the Republicans during the stimulus debate (other rogue actors acting in bad faith). Obama hasn’t “learned” anything, he is just doing what he said he would do all along and you folks could never figure out. Seriously, these guys must run around terrified, spending their days hiding from used-car salesmen, because if they talk to one, they just know they are going to have to buy a car.
Tim F.
Ed still does not understand how the ACLU can defend the free speech rights of people who hate the ACLU. The guy is awfully well spoken for a fucking moron.
J.
O/T, did you see this article from Newsweek on West Virginia yet, John?
The Grand Panjandrum
.
Jesus! Comment #1 wins the thread. It’s like playing Jeopardy around here.
What I find most entertaining about the wingnut reaction to Obama (so far) is that they have not given him any breathing room. They are like the old used up boxer coming out of his corner at the sound of the bell, even though his eyes are swollen shut, and just starts swinging. (They probably don’t realize that Rocky was a movie. Adrienne! Adrienne!)
MattF
I think that current Republican politics is basically bad faith raised to the level of a fundamental principle. The recent to-do over Kristol’s essay in the WaPo, merely expressing the obvious in print, is a case in point. Who can deny that the whole focus of Republican politics is to create an economic disaster, regardless of the cost?
Zifnab
Obama isn’t properly backing Israel!
No wait, that’s a different conversation. :-p You just can’t win with some people.
valdivia
thanks John. One would think that you are stating the obvious but to these blind clowns one has to spell it out.
cleek
Ed thinks his readers are stupid.
$10 says he’s right.
gee… i wonder how that’s working out..
The Grand Panjandrum
It looks like all the bitching, moaning, and posturing by the Republicans is taking a toll on Obama’s approval ratings.
Xanthippas
Ha. That’s what keeps me coming back to this blog.
Martin
They never tried to figure it out. They were too busy screaming ‘socialist’, ‘terrorist sympathizer’, ‘non-American’, ‘Muslim’ to listen to anything he was really saying.
They heard what he was saying like NSA analysts listening for keywords in a wiretap, but they had no interest whatsoever in the message. They were only looking for evidence to convict.
Dennis-SGMM
Uh-oh:
This fresh new attack will have Obama on the ropes in no time. It’s a matter of days until he resigns in favor of McCain/Palin.
AnneLaurie
Ding ding ding — we have a WINNER!
But not a Republican one, ‘cuz they’re all losers now.
It seems like they’re so bankrupt of ideas, they’ve decided, "Well, we’ll just wait for Obambi to say something, and then announce we are adamantly in favor of doing the exact opposite."
Seems to me President Obama has a puckish streak, so I’m waiting for the press conference where the Media Village Idiots are yapping about whether he’s ‘bipartisan’ enough, and Obama says something like, "My new bipartisan initiative is that we should never, never ask Americans to donate to the Treasury’s deficit reduction fund. I’m sure Rush Limbaugh and John Boehner will back me up on this issue." Boehner is just dumb enough to put out an immediate call for his beleagured fellows to send big wads of cash to the Treasury just to *prove* who the "real Americans" are. Limbaugh won’t fall for it, but it would be nice hearing him rant in favor of keeping the deficit as high as possible.
bago
John, you say Durbin and the Ed quotation says Durban.
Who is correct?
Ugh
Velcro.
The Grand Panjandrum
Durbin = Senator from Illinois.
Durban = City in South Africa.
At least Cap’n Ed got something right.
John Cole
@bago: Durbin. My typing/spelling sucks.
sgwhiteinfla
I think the most interesting thing is why Obama’s administration pulled out of Durban II in the first place. I actually went to see the language for the document that made them pull back and searched for the anti Israel sentiment or "language hostile towards Israel" and the only thing I could find was language about Israel not opening the borders for the Palestinians and having settlements post 1967. I say only because just yesterday there was a story that Hillary Clinton is now pressing Israel about not letting in aid through the borders and its widely believed that any long term I/P peace agreement will have to address the settlements. (Of course as Joe Klein pointed out earlier Hillary is also now catching hell behind that) I mean I was expecting something a lot harsher but there was no there, there. I guess I will never really understand the American/Israel relationship whereby you literally can not criticize them at all lest you be called an anti-semite.
Napoleon
@AnneLaurie:
You actually hit on something that for a very long time I have wondered about: why don’t smart Democrat take advantage of Republicans reflexively oppose any thing a Dem is for . For a good 15 years it has been obvious that this is the case. You know, stuff like Dems would like it if people don’t die in volcano expolsions so Rep. basically come out in favor of death by lava. Why Dems are not creative in boxing Rep in using this fact is inexplicable,
The Cat Who Would Be Tunch
Sheesh, I think sales people everywhere have been using the wrong demographic categorizations to find potential customers. Throw out age, gender, race, etc and just ask a single question: "Wingnut or not?"
Brick Oven Bill
Whites are forbidden by law from owning property in coastal areas of Mexico and all of Haiti. Yet outcome-based segregation by economic achievement, in a free society with affirmative action and Section 8 housing vouchers, will be the subject of these talks.
les
I’d posit two levels of stupid. They can’t, or don’t listen well enough to, understand what hes says. But even more fundamentally, they don’t get the notion of anyone, much less a politician, simply stating what they intend, and then doing it. Repubs have been lying and misrepresenting themselves so long, just to get a hearing, that they don’t understand anything else.
Comrade Dread
Shorter wingnut: "Talkin’s for f**s."
les
Edit button, goddam it!
Warren Terra
The funny thing is that Obama is proving that talking in good faith with one’s ideological opponents and getting visibly spurned by them strengthens his hand with broad center of the debate – the precise argument he used with respect to dealing with foreign adversaries, and the need to appear open to talk in order to solidify the support of the rest of the world – and proving the idea by using it domestically against the very Republicans that mocked the idea when applied to foreign relations. It’s sheer poetry.
.
And, of course, the funny thing about it is that so long as the ideological opponents continue to bite the outstretched hand, not only do the moderates come on Obama’s side, but the loud cheering from the ideological opponents’ own partisans fool them into perceiving a short-term benefit for their foolishness, and reinforces their marginalization.
.
.
P.S. I have no idea what BOB is on about, or even whether the basic precepts are true. Fortunately, I don’t care, either.
scav
giggle. Restrictions on foreign ownership are interpreted by BOB as restrictions on white ownership. I guess wingnuts are indeed color-blind in addition to the bog-standard kind of reality-blindness.
Martin
What if you own a tractor?
And you’re wrong on Mexico. Mexico limits by citizenship and you can get a waiver, or so say the dozen or so white Americans I know that now have homes in coastal areas of Mexico. It’s only a race limitation if you assume that white people wouldn’t want to be citizens of Mexico.
And why even mention Haiti. There are few places more fucked up than Haiti, so why focus on their housing laws when virtually every other law is more deserving?
Napoleon
Josh Marshell punks Redstate.
Colonel Danite
@ Brick Oven Bill,
I think you mean foreigners are prohibited from owning beach front property in Mexico. Whites are the the power elite in Mexico. The 10-15% of the Mexican population that is of European stock owns a disproportionate percentage of the wealth in that country.
Wile E. Quixote
@Brick Oven Bill
Yeah, but what about the squirrels?
Conservatively Liberal
@scav:
Shhh! Their opinions reflect their reality, don’t shatter it for them. When it comes to BOB, replace reality with surreality.
Brian J
Meanwhile, how come nobody has mentioned this picture?
kay
@Warren Terra:
I think you’re right, although that never occurred to me. I used to go out of my way not to equate US conservatives with enemies of the country. I hate that 5th column stuff.
Then they announced they were an insurgent band much like the Taliban, so now I don’t have to worry about that.
Taliban it is, gentlemen, since you insist.
Comrade Stuck
Ed and all the other wingnuts, at least the ones not currently clawing out each others eyes, have slipped into full reactionary mode. This is the GOP in the 50′ and 60’s before they gathered the feuding clans together for the Conservative Movement"– based on limited government, restrained foreign involvements (ie nation building), and deregulation. Reagan tightened up the unholy alliance, and at least paid homage to the core tenets of conservatism movement style. Though in realty, he did raise taxes and grow government, and meddle in foreign countries( Central and South America mostly). But the press and public was to engrossed in his cheerful Americana persona and let those things pass.
Comes along dufus George with his delusions of grandeur and Churchill/Ghandi/and dualing FDR/Hoover lovechild (no regulation with big spending on Med. prescription for big Pharma) fantasies and flushes the Conservative Movement down the shitter. They have nothing left to but spout discredited Burkean bullshit and now hypocritical Buckley high dugeon conservative principle. And of course, watching Obama for anything to criticize, down to his lack of proper dress for the oval office. I expect the new Obama family dog will be vetted accordingly.
Brick Oven Bill
You get a lease in Mexico, I believe Martin. There are very few Mexican citizens of northern European extraction. But if there are Mexican citizens of northern European extraction, I am confident that they would be able to purchase property.
…
It is good to see the Haitian people standing up for their rights at Durban. Haiti used to be the richest place in the Caribbean. Some of the Frenchmen bred with Africans and created a middle class, who then rose up against their fathers, killing them and their white families, after Napoleon re-deployed his forces to the Continent. The white race was then banished from Haitian soil by law.
After than was done, the new ruling class butchered their equivalent of George Washington and re-enslaved the full-blooded Africans. Haiti is now one of the poorest places in the Western Hemisphere.
The Haitians will be well-represented at Durban. They are ethical, you see.
Colonel Danite
Brick Oven Boob. Most White Mexicans are of Spanish decent. Spaniards are white despite not being Northern Europeans.
gbear
Meanwhile in Florida, another wingnut walks across his street and starts shooting people.
Martin
You get a lease in much of blood-red Orange County, Bill, so what’s your point? Palm Springs, another Republican stronghold, almost 50% leased land. You want me to go on?
The Other Steve
It will not work. I’m sorry, but you can’t change a state’s reputation by running a marketing campaign. You gotta change the reputation by changing the reputation.
KG
@18: I think it’s a forest for the trees thing. Dems focus on the forest, Reps focus on the trees. When times are tough, the forest is the better view, when the good times roll, you can focus on the trees. And then, occasionally, you get someone like the president that can see both views.
@24: this is not really a new development. Worked for Clinton in the government shut down battle. Worked for Reagan (continually dismissed by liberals as crazy) as well. If all one side has is "nuh uh" they are typically going to lose, as Hamilton (and later Malcolm X) said: he who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
Brick Oven Bill
Spain had a couple of conflicts with the English through the years, one of them involved ships. There are genetic differences between Spaniards and Anglos. These conflicts continue to today in the Guatemala-Belize friction.
I suspect that the Spaniards still harbor suspicions about the Anglos, and this is why landownership laws are why they are in Mexico. I agree that racism is much more prevalent in Mexico than in the US, but my guess is that Mexico will not be the target of the judgments of Durban.
Bets?
Zifnab
@Brick Oven Bill: I agree. The pie is delicious.
joe from Lowell
Right, exactly, John. Engaging on this was worth doing, even when it ends this way. An intelligent, confident diplomat pursues engagements that might well end like this. It’s not a setback for us that we pulled out of the conference; it’s a setback for the conference.
jbb
@sgwhiteinfla:
Could you post a link to the current language? I poked around the Durban II website and couldn’t find it, but I’m sure I’m just missing it somewhere.
Comrade Stuck
@Brick Oven Bill:
Spaniards can run faster. They have an extra bone in their mustache/
SteveIL
Except that the left doesn’t have any strong leaders (Obama hasn’t shown any leadership), and don’t move on. They give in, especially if the other side is negotiating in bad faith.
Atanarjuat
@Comrade Stuck:
Please don’t spread false information, Comrade Stuck.
Spaniards are, in fact, slightly greasy, whereas Mexicans are very greasy.
This is why they were called greasers in the late 19th century. However, once immigration was regulated, the backs of many Mexicans became rather soggy, but that’s another story, so we’ll cross that river when we get to it.
-A
The Moar You Know
@Brick Oven Bill: Gotta call you out on this one. Bullshit. Non-Mexicans are not allowed to own coastal real estate unless they do it via the agency of the fidelcosimo trust. If they do that, it is completely legal.
And FYI, there are Mexicans who are a hell of a lot whiter than I look.
You always entertain because you show up here completely unprepared. You must have been a riot in school – a total failure, but a riot nonetheless.
Colonel Danite
@B.O.B,
So generic differences (whatever that means in this case) and the 400 year old loss of the Spanish Armada is why "whites" , "Northern Europeans", er…"Anglos" can’t buy beach property in Mexico and also explains some mysterious border dispute between Guatemala and majority black Belize? What are you smoking in that oven?
Michael D.
Can I hijack this thread and say that I ABSOLUTELY AM IN LOVE with my Amazon Kindle? I’ve had it for 3 days.
All you haters have it wrong. I have a subscription to Time, Newsweek, The Atlantic, Reason, and the AJC.
No Ads. I love it.
The Moar You Know
Wrong again. You own the property via a bank trust. It can be renewed in perpetuity and can be passed down to your inheritors.
JasperTPaddlin'
@Comrade Stuck: Lulz.
jbb
@jbb:
Okay, I found it. There is some language in there already that I’m sure Israeli interests object to — I’m not sure whether I do or not — and there’s also a note that there’s more language re: Israel and Gaza to be added that isn’t in this draft. Is it possible the pull-out was over the as-of-yet undisclosed language?
Brick Oven Bill
Correction The Moar You Know; It can be renewed until the government says that it can’t. See Article 27 of the Mexican Constitution:
The property of all land and water within national territory is originally owned by the Nation, who has the right to transfer this ownership to particulars. Hence, private property is a privilege created by the Nation.
…
The State will always have the right to impose on private property constraints dictated by "public interest". The State will also regulate the exploitation of natural resources based on social benefits and the equal distribution of wealth. The state is also responsible for conservation and ecological considerations.
Private ownership is an English concept.
alphie
I think allah hired Special Ed more for the quantity of his output rather than its quality.
That seems to be a trend at far right websites, one fool who spews whatever Rush tells them to, plus a good cop who displays a modest amount of insight.
Leo
@Warren Terra: I came into the comments to post more or less exactly what you said. Obama’s approach to winning the public opinion battle against Eric Cantor and Amademajad is the same. Act reasonable and willing to negotiate; talk about the importance of dialogue; be willing to make small but symbolic concessions; but don’t concede your core interests and explain forthrightly why you won’t. Then let the other side try to convince the world that they’re the reasonable ones.
It’s a great tactic.
JD Rhoades
This pretty much describes what Obama’s been doing in every facet of his Presidency so far: exactly what he said repeatedly he was going to do and exactly what the people voted for.
TheHatOnMyCat
It’s also what happened during the campaign last year when Obama’s staff met with McCain’s to talk about taking public campaign funds. McCain’s people basically took an unacceptable position, and Obama’s people walked out.
This got reported, and then attacked during the campaign, as Obama "breaking his promise to use public funding."
He never made a promise to use public funding, he promised to meet with the opposition to discuss using public funding. The meetings collapsed, and Obama did his own funding.
I guess we know how that turned out … the people who thought they could pull a fast one on Obama got left at the curb with much less money. Obama showed me how he negotiates from strength, right there.
Presidential material, if you ask me.
Capelza Gradenko
Brick Oven Bill…
So your definition of "Whites" is NORTHERN European?
scav
forgive me, CL. I get it now, BOB isn’t reality-blind so much as blundering around with his eyes defiantly screwed shut, beating his beaky little forehead against the mirror, twittering something about a door.
OT. the most immortal of my sister’s boyfriends was "BWOB" (boyfriend without a brain). He won major brownie points not to mention his enduring title when he showed up at her doorstep whimpering that he’d come to see her because he couldn’t think of anything better to do. Or, maybe not OT. Rhymes rhymes rhymes.
Brick Oven Bill
I’d define ‘white’ as a person whose ancestors evolved in a farming setting. This would explain why the English speaking countries of the Caribbean have strong property right protections, and do not have bull fights. This also explains the lactose tolerance rates of Europe. Farming communities were tied to their land and milk past infancy, thus the respect for property rights.
Spanish-speaking parts of the Caribbean have bull fights and do not have strong property rights. This is because a significant percentage of the Spanish ancestors were nomadic. The bull-fighting regions of France also correspond fairly closely with the extent of the Moorish advances.
TheHatOnMyCat
@Brick Oven Bill:
You’d define white?
In the age of ubiquitous and free online dictionaries, what service do you think you are providing, exactly?
Brick Oven Bill
Answering questions when challenged since 2008 TheCatOnMyHat.
TenguPhule
In an infinite number of universes, one of them will have a bunch of monkeys banging on keyboards produce the works of Shakespeare.
TenguPhule
Africa and China are the new white, who knew?
bago
@Brick Oven Bill: Because vikings were known for their farming prowess, while those silly native americans just played around getting lost in their maize.
TheHatOnMyCat
@Brick Oven Bill:
Sometimes, less is more.
jg
@Brick Oven Bill:
You’re responding to questions, I wouldn’t go so far as to say you’re answering anything.
Brick Oven Bill
Sigh. The question I responded to was the Spanish-English society questions in the Caribbean.
Jared Diamond does a good job explaining why Native Americans are largely lactose intolerant, basically suitable animals were killed off before they became domesticated, preserving the largely hunter-gatherer societies on the North American continent.
I have no theory as to why the Chinese are largely lactose intolerant, but their society used to be more advanced than the West and they have higher IQs, per the testing.
I suspect that the reason for the drop in agricultural efficiencies in Haiti and Rhodesia is because the people who evolved in the presence of metals were killed or driven off there. This is why there is hunger in those formerly self-sustaining countries, in my opinion.
Brick Oven Bill
If you look at the lactose intolerance link above, note that lactose intolerance in Europe closely parallels the advances of Dar al-Islam, and the practice of bull-fighting.
Blue Raven
@Brick Oven Bill:
It strings sentences together that almost make sense, but then it fails to check for contact with shared reality. This is a failed Turing test bot. Whoever’s behind it, please pull the program and check for bugs in the language translation section,
Shiva
I remember the Durban I. conference, a few days before Sept. 11, 2001, was filled with hatred, e.g. a pamphlet titled "what if Hitler had won?" and copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In this time of global economic pain, I cannot imagine why anyone would think there is anything to be gained from hating Jews. We have enough problems, and need to pull together. I’m definitely in favor of talking with all kinds of people, and I know Obama feels the same way, but sometimes Jew-hatred really goes off the deep end, and there’s no reason to waste time at neo-Nazi type meetings. I should add that I totally disagree with Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory (although I realize that to withdraw immediately would pose some, er, practical problems, like mucho rocket fire into Tel Aviv). But the kind of super-intense hatred that we saw at Durban I. (in 2001) really needs to stop, before someone gets hurt.
Rick Taylor
To be fair, Obama has gotten flack from both conservatives and liberals for talking to people they don’t approve of.
TheHatOnMyCat
Billbob?
Which do you think is wearing thinnerier?
Our tolerance for your schtick, or your tolerance for your schtick?
Schooner
I only scanned the comments so I’m not sure it’s been said but Stephen Harper is complete fucktard and the perfect example of the nerdy moron at the back of the high school class who swore he’d exact revenge on all who crossed him.
As a Canadian I just thought it should be said.
The fact that Special ED is a tardbilly should come as no surprise to anyone.
TenguPhule
The words, they scream in agony as they are perverted into things of horror.