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You are here: Home / Give Me A Break

Give Me A Break

by John Cole|  March 12, 200910:30 am| 40 Comments

This post is in: General Stupidity

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Without question, the silliest portion of this Charles Freeman debate is occurring after the nominee has withdrawn and certain folks are pretending they had absolutely nothing to do with the assault on his character.

I will just put it this way. If you honestly thought that the folks at the Weekly Standard were quoting Human Rights Watch because of a deep concern for human rights, you are dumber than I ever was at the height of my kool-aid days.

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40Comments

  1. 1.

    Napoleon

    March 12, 2009 at 10:42 am

    I love in the Greenwald piece where he discusses where the Washington Post editorial page’s "facts" are at odds with the facts reported by its reporters in the paper. It use to be the WSJ was the only paper that would regularly have an editorial page that would state things diametrically opposed to what was being reported in the straight news sections of the paper (sometimes in the very same paper), but in the last 1/2 dozen years or so the WaPo had managed to join them in that distinction.

  2. 2.

    Zifnab

    March 12, 2009 at 10:43 am

    The distorting effect of anonymity

    I think you’ll need to take a page from Penny Arcade on this.

  3. 3.

    wilfred

    March 12, 2009 at 10:45 am

    @Napoleon:

    Better is the Pipes email crediting indicted spy Steve Rosen for his efforts.

    One step closer to an attack on Iran and civilizational war.

  4. 4.

    burnspbesq

    March 12, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Hmmm … Greenwald cites Broder with approval.

    Time to raise the Flying Pig Alert level to Orange.

  5. 5.

    KCinDC

    March 12, 2009 at 10:55 am

    OT: Wingnut inane metaphor alert.

  6. 6.

    Napoleon

    March 12, 2009 at 10:59 am

    @KCinDC:

    The wingnuts really do think they can successfully rewrite history when it comes to FDR, don’t they.

  7. 7.

    kay

    March 12, 2009 at 11:05 am

    I’m really, really disappointed in Obama. This capitulation was cowardly.

    "I don’t have anything to add from what Admiral Blair discussed yesterday in accepting Mr. Freeman’s decision that his nomination not proceed and that he regretted it," press secretary Robert Gibbs said.

    Profiles in courage.

    A lobby is a lobby, whether they’re advocating foreign policy positions or banking deregulation. A central theme of Obama’s campaign was that special interests hold outsize clout in DC. Everyone in the country knows it. This is a fight he had to show up for. If he can’t buck this lobby, it’s unlikely he has the spine to buck any of the others. Now they know it.

  8. 8.

    burnspbesq

    March 12, 2009 at 11:06 am

    I guess the most depressing aspects of the Freeman thing to me are (1) that someone who is under indictment for what amounts to spying for a foreign government can still exert influence in Washington and (2) that people can characterize any deviation, however trivial, from absolute and unyielding support for whatever the fuck Israel wants to do, no matter how damaging it might be to our long-term interests in the region, as anti-Semitism and get by with it.

  9. 9.

    burnspbesq

    March 12, 2009 at 11:08 am

    @Napoleon:

    On the topic of misreading and misappropriating FDR, Chait’s demolition of Amity Shlaes’ book (in the current TNR) is a must-read.

  10. 10.

    Napoleon

    March 12, 2009 at 11:12 am

    @burnspbesq:

    I read that – it was very good.

  11. 11.

    kay

    March 12, 2009 at 11:14 am

    @burnspbesq:

    It’s completely dispiriting. No debate. A couple of dishonest emails sent to the right people, and Chuck Schumer, who never saw a lobby he could quit, whether it’s the credit card companies or AIPAC. Done and done. What does this say about US credibility as a negotiating partner? Is this a position of strength? Pathetic.

  12. 12.

    Paul L.

    March 12, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Nice to see the leftards defend a Saudi shill/dupe after implying that George W. Bush was in the pockets of the Saudis and bashing him for it.

  13. 13.

    jibeaux

    March 12, 2009 at 11:20 am

    If you honestly thought that the folks at the Weekly Standard were quoting Human Rights Watch because of a deep concern for human rights

    I hate this stuff so much. I am also not convinced that the voucher folks really have the interests of poor black urban kids at heart, call me cynical.
    I’ve heard Michael Moore do it before, too, though, in listing one of the criticisms of the Iraq war that it would detract from the war in Afghanistan. This is a very valid point, which you nevertheless should probably avoid making if you also publicly opposed the war in Afghanistan. ‘Cause it kinda makes you look like an ass.

  14. 14.

    burnspbesq

    March 12, 2009 at 11:21 am

    @Paul L.:

    Both pieces of your little screed are demonstrably at variance with reality (Freeman was not guilty of clientism with respect to Saudi, and the House of Bush has always been a wholly owned subsidiary of the House of Saud), but thanks for stopping by.

  15. 15.

    liberal

    March 12, 2009 at 11:22 am

    @burnspbesq:

    On the topic of misreading and misappropriating FDR, Chait’s demolition of Amity Shlaes’ book (in the current TNR) is a must-read.

    That’s mildly amusing, because IIRC Chait is one of the people who went after Freeman.

    Of course, Chait could be right on one issue and dreadfully wrong on the other.

  16. 16.

    John Cole

    March 12, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Chait was shameless during the Freeman thing, and Chait has close ties to Reason and I would presume, Matt Welch, which is, I am convinced, how Welch’s little “It isn’t just the Israel supporters who hate Freeman” post was born and then popularized.

    I like Matt Welch, but I have watched him turn himself and his magazine into little more than useful idiots for the ruling classes. Deregulation- GOOD! Taxes- BAD! Any government involvement- SOCIALISM! Marijuana laws- BAD.

    Reason is a sad joke anymore.

  17. 17.

    Cat Lady

    March 12, 2009 at 11:38 am

    @kay:

    Don’t forget those poor hedge fund managers’ tax rates Schumer shilled for. He needs to be primaried from the left, which needn’t be very left at all. Time for him and DiFi to go.

    This whole battle isn’t a left/right thing anyway, it’s top v. bottom. Democrats at least once in a while try to advocate for the bottom. Repubs demagogue the bottom to keep them there.

  18. 18.

    kay

    March 12, 2009 at 11:43 am

    @Cat Lady:

    Right. Agreed. I’m bothered by the fact that Obama didn’t defend his national security pick. I know the bought and paid for wimps in Congress. I’m used to them.

  19. 19.

    Cat Lady

    March 12, 2009 at 11:53 am

    @kay:

    Israel isn’t my issue, and it is no surprise to any disinterested observer that the people who make Israel their issue wield a tremendous amount of influence. Obama and Rahm most likely saw this train coming miles away, and did some political math. They’re pretty good at that. I guess I’d like to know is what would stop him from asking Freeman’s advice if he wanted it anyway? He can do that, right?

  20. 20.

    cleek

    March 12, 2009 at 11:53 am

    fuck the corrosive influence of Israel and its idiot supporters.

  21. 21.

    Observer

    March 12, 2009 at 11:59 am

    This is how the world works. This is how politics works. Its how the Obama administration worked when they recently leaked a letter to Putin. This is how every lobby and interest group works. This is how you and your co-workers huddled around the break table work. It how your spouse and kids work when you’re not there.

    So why do folks like Greenwald scream "undue influence" and "AIPAC conspiracy theory" in this particular example? How many other nominations that were shot down and had nothing to do with Israel-American national interests were given the same vocal treatment?

    I spent a couple of hours on the mepc.org website yesterday reading unedited transcripts of recent conferences. I was not impressed by the tone of Freeman’s mediation. Start with the "Can the Two State Solution be Salvaged" and work your way back to 2006.

    It’s not necessary to fall back on "Jews Rule The World" tinhattery to find reasons to object to this guy.

    Sheesh.

  22. 22.

    SteveinSC

    March 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Second that, cleek. Something has really got to be done about this "not-so-loosely-connected" cabal. The right-wing/Israel lobby is still active and intent on finishing the job Bush started: Americans dying to destroy Israel’s enemies.

  23. 23.

    bootlegger

    March 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Give Me A Break

    As David Lee Roth said, "one break, coming up!"

  24. 24.

    wilfred

    March 12, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    @Observer:

    Because everybody hates Jews? Has to be, right?

    But you have a point – won’t you join us in condemning Sayedna Hilary for this:

    "I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family"

    This of a man who has placed thousands of dissidents in jails without trial and whose government routinely engages in torture and harassment of anybody who mocks him.

    Off with her head?

  25. 25.

    El Cid

    March 12, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    I think it’s kind of funny that the Israel hawks are pretending that they gave half a sh*t what Freeman said about Tiananmen in retrospect, given that none of them gave or gives the slightest sh*t that at the very time the Chinese military was shooting down dissidents in Tiananmen square, Israel (with the U.S.’ backhanded permission) was the #1 high tech weapons dealer to that same Chinese military.

  26. 26.

    srv

    March 12, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    @Cat Lady:

    Obama and Rahm most likely saw this train coming miles away, and did some political math. They’re pretty good at that

    When Pat Lang enthusiastically posted the news of the appointment, I was pretty shocked. I had two choices, to explain it: A) there might be some policy change afoot, or at least some semblance of debate, or B) Rahm was throwing some red meat to the lobby, to make an example out of somebody.

    I went with B, and started to post a snarky comment, but thought maybe I shouldn’t be so negative and give this administration of Change the benefit of the doubt.

  27. 27.

    Paul L.

    March 12, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    Just saw a picture of Charles Freeman.
    Can I use the progressive Rush Limbaugh standard?
    Dismiss him because he is fat and imply he likes the Saudis because they allow him access to their kidnapped white sex slaves.

  28. 28.

    Xanthippas

    March 12, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Chait was shameless during the Freeman thing, and Chait has close ties to Reason and I would presume, Matt Welch, which is, I am convinced, how Welch’s little “It isn’t just the Israel supporters who hate Freeman” post was born and then popularized.

    Yeah, I saw that approving link to Chait and thought maybe this particular thread isn’t the place to mention that.

  29. 29.

    Xanthippas

    March 12, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    It’s not necessary to fall back on "Jews Rule The World" tinhattery to find reasons to object to this guy.

    That is a completely ridiculous characterization of what happened here, and it’s proof that you paid no attention to anything Greenwald or any of Freeman’s defenders actually wrote. Also, your "this is how politics works" comment merely proves that you are unaware of the history of the Israel lobby in this country, or those who criticize it.

  30. 30.

    Paul L.

    March 12, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    No one wants to dispute the progressive Rush Limbaugh standard?
    Glenn Greenwald: Sleeze merchant first class

    If the term "moral degenerate" has any validity and can be fairly applied to anyone, there are few people who merit that term more than Rush Limbaugh. He is the living and breathing embodiment of moral degeneracy, with his countless overlapping sexual affairs, his series of shattered, dissolved marriages, his hedonistic and illegal drug abuse, his jaunts, with fistfulls of Viagra (but no wife), to an impoverished Latin American island renowned for its easy access to underage female prostitutes.

  31. 31.

    KXB

    March 12, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    "It’s not necessary to fall back on "Jews Rule The World" tinhattery to find reasons to object to this guy."

    Last I checked – no one was talking about Jewish influence in Asia, Latin America, sub-Saharan Africa, etc. The conversation was solely focused on the Middle East, where not surprisingly, a number of Jewish people who lean to the right wish to limit the discussion to acceptable limits. Just as Cubans in Miami yield influence over our Cuban policy, or Armenians in southern California have a say in our relations with Turkey. Whipping out the old anti-Semitism stick is getting tiresome, but it is still effective.

  32. 32.

    Cat Lady

    March 12, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    @srv:

    I give this administration the benefit of the doubt, too, because all the usual suspects have been locked into position for a long time, and so are completely predictable. Obama seems pretty smart. Rahm was a good choice for war time consigliere. Someone somewhere either will or did get a horse head in their bed.

  33. 33.

    srv

    March 12, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Pat Lang asks if Admiral Blair is next on the anti-semite list.

  34. 34.

    burnspbesq

    March 12, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    @Paul L.:

    I am hardly in a position to dismiss Rush because he is fat (he said, patting his ample belly).

    I dismiss Rush because he is a know-nothing, loud-mouthed drug abuser.

  35. 35.

    cleek

    March 12, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    whatever. the stock market apparently loves the fact that Freeman is out.

    /PUNDIT

  36. 36.

    Wile E. Quixote

    March 12, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    I asked this yesterday but Paul was apparently to busy to answer, so I’ll ask it again. Paul, would you please explain what Israel has ever done for the United States of America? It’s obvious what the USA has done for Israel, we hand them billions of dollars a year in foreign aid and hand Egypt more billions so they won’t attack Israel. What have we gotten in return? Well the Israelis attacked a US ship and killed 34 sailors in 1967 and got away with it. They spied on the US during the 1980s and then traded the intelligence to the Soviet Union and got away with it, but have they done anything for the United States as opposed to doing things "to" the United States?

  37. 37.

    joe from Lowell

    March 12, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    John Cole is absolutely right about Reason magazine.

    Hit & Run used to be one of the best political sites on the web. Now it’s crap.

    I wouldn’t put all the blame on Matt Welch, though. Events over the past year or so have dealt a massive blow to the image and credibility of libertarian thought, and they ‘re stuck in a rut of defensiveness and denial.

  38. 38.

    El Cid

    March 12, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    would you please explain what Israel has ever done for the United States of America

    Just a note of clarification for questions like these: the U.S. foreign policy establishment doesn’t care what some other nation has done ‘for the United States of America’ — they only care if it does what they, the U.S. foreign policy establishment wants it to do.

    And if you look at the history of the U.S. exertions of power in the region, the USFPE really likes having a set of warmongering non-Arab non-Muslims in the region. They used to refer to Israel as the ‘cop on the beat’.

    The foreign policy establishment doesn’t give the slightest damn about you or me, or our interests, or the interests of the whole USA, or of Israeli civilians, or Palestinian civilians, etc.

    It’s all bullsh*t power politics and they’d gladly blow up the world or keep coming as close as possible to that if it were necessary to stick to their agenda.

  39. 39.

    Cat Lady

    March 12, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    Obama’s election has shifted the ground from under a lot of folks who knew where they stood. Paradigm shift. Overton Window shift. It’s what’s for dinner.

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. The Debate On Israel In A Handy Flowchart | Prose Before Hos says:
    March 12, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    […] accusation as throw-away, Obama Intelligence Nominee Withdraws, The Israel of the Three Likudniks, Give Me A Break, “Bad Things”, Karma (and Charles Freeman) on the Bus, The Fallout from Freeman, The […]

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