I just spent an hour trying to figure out how to get a five piece queen-size metal bed frame together and still ended up with an extra piece. Anyone who thinks I have any idea what I am talking about regarding the financial crisis should keep that in mind. I am clueless and frustrated and just trying to figure things out, which is harder and harder to do because nothing stays still long enough to get a feel for things and as soon as you think you have an idea as to what is going on, things change dramatically.
Unlike the bed frame, which was stationary, and I managed to make a hash of that anyway. I really hope this extra piece was optional.
cassie
so we’re all still stuck in PTSD …. the tactics to keep us there are still being used and they are still working.
LD50
So I guess if your bed suddenly kills you in the middle of the night a couple of months from now, we’ll know it wasn’t?
Kirk Spencer
So… you’re saying you have a loose screw?
garyb50
It’s called box springs & goes under your mattress.
You’re welcome.
dmsilev
For mechanical assembly difficulties of this sort, I recommend obtaining access to a band saw (for cases where you need more parts than you have) and an arc-welder (when you have more parts than you need).
That’s the advanced version of the WD-40/duct tape approach to repairs ("If it moves and it’s not supposed to, fasten it with duct tape. If it doesn’t move, and it’s supposed to, spray it with WD-40").
-dms
John Cole
@LD50: This is one of those hotel thick Serta’s, so in my estimation it is worth the risk.
Even better- it was free. My sister had it for a month and then she and her husband were given an even bigger King-sized as a gift.
bootlegger
Most bed frames convert from full to king and the king requires and extra support for the greater width and length.
I didn’t know this until I bought a king size bed and couldn’t figure out how to put the 5 pieces together.
SarahLoving
Learning via the Rolling Stone article you linked to yesterday depressed the hell out of me, especially as I learned that not only is there no congressional auditing powers of the Fed but that the Fed is now printing money hand over fist. I feel like telling my dad not to put off that once-in-a-life time trip he’s been talking about because in a couple of years or less it won’t be affordable anymore because of inflation.
Mudge
No one seems to know what is going on, so it devolves into who you believe. I’ll go with the Nobel Prize winner..the monolith must be destroyed and rebuilt. And rebuilt with serious regulation in place, not slapped onto existing institutions.
Libby
Heh. My first husband had this idea he was a good mechanic and liked to do his own car repairs. He often ended up with extra pieces. He always insisted those were optional as well.
Of course, he also subscribed to the hammer method of car repair. He tried banging on the broken thing first. If that didn’t fix it, then he would bring out the wrenches….
Bill H
Actually, according to the guy with "that Swedish thingie," deflation caused by the overall economy will offset the inflation caused by printing money, even at the rate the Fed is doing it. Seems to me that’s going to take one hell of a lot of defaltion, but I don’t have "a Swedish thingie." (Yes, I have a "thingie," but it isn’t Sewdish.)
Libby
Come to think of it, his method of car repair doesn’t sound that different from the current fix for the banking system…
I haven’t been able to bring myself to read Taibbi’s piece yet. I hear you need a healthy supply of Xanax for when you’re done reading. Saved the link in case I get brave later on though.
AhabTRuler
@Libby: My stepmother had a ’72 MGB that I used to be able to drive around. It ran really well and was a fun convertible. But every once in a while something would rattle loose from up in the dash/pedal area and fall out on my leg. I would always chuck the piece in the glove-box and hope that it wasn’t important.
Libby
@AhabTRuler: Oddly, oftentimes it seems the extra pieces aren’t that necessary. Our cars usually kept running after he *fixed* them as well. Extra parts notwithstanding.
Libby
That’s interesting. If you use the new kewl kidz method of emphasis using asterisks instead of quote marks around a word, this platform bolds it. Good to know.
JenJen
Just when I think I’ve had my fill of commentary, I go over to Al Giordano and get my head straightened out. That’s how I deal with the financial crisis, because, still being unemployed and living in a dying state (Ohio), all of the Geithner and AIG and Krugman and OpenLeft talk doesn’t smack of reality to me.
Saying this "out loud" probably makes me sound naive, and I’ll certainly cop to not being a financial whiz. But I’m really with Giordano more than my old favorite bloggers these days.
At any rate, John, I had to put together and take apart my IKEA bed no fewer than five times, so I sympathize. :-) (Is the extra piece maybe that crossbar-thing that goes diagonally on the bottom of the bed?)
Unabogie
@Mudge:
Not saying Krugman is wrong, but listing his Nobel Prize is simply an appeal to authority. I also keep reminding myself that Geithner and Obama are privy to a lot of information that Krugman is not. Now that’s also an appeal to authority, but it has a basis in fact.
So here is my non-Nobel Prize winning take on this:
Obama and Geithner are well aware of Krugman’s argument and have given it much thought. But they are trying to do this methodically, so that they can walk back from steps that don’t work, rather than radical changes which cannot easily be undone. This fits with Obama’s style as we know it and makes sense to me. I can’t count how many books I’ve read about the War on Terra which demonstrate that sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease and that there are unintended consequences to large scale endeavors.
If this were a collapsed mine, engineers would first try and shore up the roof and get the miners out safely before blowing it up and digging out a whole new mine done "just right".
Seems sensible to me, but I’m just a lowly commenter.
John Cole
@JenJen: I love Al and Booman. Good reads.
My biggest fault as a person is I far too easily fall into the chicken little category.
D-Chance.
Unlike the bed frame, which was stationary, and I managed to make a hash of that anyway. I really hope this extra piece was optional.
When I was a kid, I thought the same thing when I put my bicycle together.
Then, I got to the bottom of the first big hill and for some reason the brakes didn’t work…
Martin
John is getting old.
HAHA!!!
(Martin now regularly forgets the names of people he’s known for 15 years so now spends more time away from groups because his memory problems are mortifyingly embarrassing. On the upside, he can still put shit together and will repair the oven later tonight.)
Ed Marshall
If this thing comes back together they need to just give Obama the job in perpetuity. If anyone can fix this bullshit, they are the mastermind of the universe.
Comrade Stuck
Some people complain about everything. Call me when your bed is one piece short.
Surreal American
@John Cole:
John,
If you aren’t being alarmist, then you are failing in your duties as a (capital B) Blogger in the Blogosphere.
I occasionally like sobering reminders of "this could all fall apart"
Unlike the Republicans between 2001-2008, I won’t get sucked into the strategy of depending on the deceptively endless disorganization of my adversaries.
Emma Anne
@bootlegger:
I swear the intenets know everything . . .
mey
John, you are NOT clueless. You actually get it way more than a lot of people in the comments (the ones arguing that this is the ONLY thing we can do). You are right to question the plans being offered. They are crap, utter crap.
Please, please, please read MISH’S Global Economic Trend Analysis. I think it’s the best economic blog out there. It’s a little too right-leaning at times for me, but MISH does an incredible job of explaining things.
And if you don’t mind going even more to the right, and want to be scared shitless about what is going on, read The Market Ticker.
And finally, Dr. Housing Bubble. While this blog focuses mostly on California real estate, he ties it into the bigger picture. This is the best blog I’ve found for "beginners". He clearly explains why we are nowhere near a bottom, and this may help explain why the Geitner plan will be an utter failure if enacted.
JL
@Libby: Do you have a link to the article. At the time, I also did not have the nerve to read it and I lost the link.
Ed Marshall
I’m not going to argue with Yves Smith on macroeconomics. She’s smarter than fuck, and knows more about the subject than I ever will, but I wonder sometimes if there is actually a plan to move forward she would endorse full-throatedly.
The people who got it right have enormous incentives not to be caught out being wrong, and I’m suspicious that their policy perscriptions are designed to be politically impossible so that they never have to sign off on anything. I’m not accusing them of trying to be decietful but that has to be a calculation in the back of your head somewhere. Krugman’s "stimulus is too small" for example. WTF? If you had told me a year ago that the democrats would own the government and bust out $800 billion dollars on everything you wish the government had been pouring money into for the last eight years I’d have laughed my ass off at you.
Just Some Fuckhead
You throwin’ out the Tunch & John bunkbed set or are you putting them in the guest bedroom?
Comrade Stuck
Quote of the day from recorded interview to be aired on 60 Minutes Sunday.
JenJen
@Ed Marshall: See? Now, this is exactly where I am. Thanks, Ed; I feel slightly less insane than I did twenty minutes ago.
Stoic
So what’s the argument here? "I’m ignorant and dis-functional and so, probably, are you so quit your bellyaching."
gnomedad
Not knowing what you’re talking about doesn’t stop Republicans. Your journey to the dark side is complete.
bootlegger
@mey: Meh. Housing starts back up by the end of the year. It will be a decade before it bounces back to before but all the suckers have been cleaned out, interest rates are low, there are tax incentives, and perhaps most importantly the sky is NOT falling.
Rick Taylor
I’ve always taken the title of the blog, "Balloon Juice," as a blanket disclaimer. I think it’s good to be bold even if we’re wrong, as that makes it easier for others to correct us.
bootlegger
@Comrade Stuck: This is America, I demand satisfaction *immediately*!
Mmmm, cheeseburgers.
JenJen
@Comrade Stuck: Thanks for the quote… anything else leaking from the 60 Minutes interview? POTUS sure does like him some Steve Kroft; this must drive Snuffleupagus and Gregory nuts.
I’m torn between the Tournament, and the Band of Brothers Marathon on History Channel this afternoon. By the way, after last night, my Sweet 16 remains intact, save for Wake. Yay, me.
Ed Marshall
Eh, I’m not a great marker of sanity, but if I made you feel better I acomplished something today.
Comrade Stuck
@JenJen:
After UCLA currently going down in flames, my sweet 16 and final four are un-intact. Oh well.
Nah that’s the only quote I saw on tomorrows 60 Min. It ought to be good watching though.
LD50
I think this is due to how in America, Democrats and Republicans are seen as opposites. If McCain was in office now, no one would be expecting him to make *anything* better. Since it’s a Democrat in office, Obama has to do the opposite of that, and solve everything last week.
Ed Marshall
How do you do the little @ thing? I’m embarassed to ask, I know html but I’m old school. I always used italics tags to address people.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Ed Marshall: Click the little curvy arrow to the right of the time/date stamp on someone’s comment.
Libby
@JL: Sorry I got lost somewhere else while I was waiting for the page to reload.
Here’s the link to Taibbi.
JenJen
@Ed Marshall: Ed… the little arrow to the right of the time stamp… just click on it, and your Comments form will be filled in with the @ thingie. The little arrow serves as the "reply" button. :-)
Edit: Just Some Fuckhead = FRIST
Ed Marshall
@Just Some Fuckhead:
danke shen!
Libby
My sweet sixteen got screwed up by my sentimental pick for West Virginia. But I didn’t advance them to the elite eight, so I’m still feeling okay about my bracket.
Dustin
1. Header panel/bar
2. Footer panel/bar
3 & 4. 2x side-rails
5. Center-support rail.
If your metal frame is set up like most that part isn’t optional. Your bed matress will likely collapse as it’s edges aren’t designed to handle the full weight of two adults, or themechanical stresses they might put on it ;-). If you’re just talking screws… can’t help you there.
JenJen
@Libby: Good call on Cleveland State, you lucky ducky. :-) I imagine the West Virginia pick can be blamed on Cole?
bootlegger
@JenJen: A late run maybe?
Who the fuck wrote Maryland over Memphis into my bracket? I demand the culprit step forward immediately!!
KCinDC
Tip for John: The frame should have four sides, not three.
Tax Analyst
…which means you may have to suck up your pride and ask your sister and/or her husband what that "extra piece" is for. If it were my relatives they might have just thrown some unrelated piece of metal in the box just to fuck with me.
Anyway, since it’s your sister she would probably already know about your assembly skills, or lack thereof, so its not like some long-hidden, big, ugly secret is going to ruin her image of you.
Libby
@JenJen: I did pick them in honor of Mr. Cole. And I like W. Virgina having visted the lovely state once.
Libby
And I really did luck out with the Cleveland pick. I think the bonus point thing finally worked for me on that one.
mclaren
Looks like it’s all coming down. The whole financial system is collapsing. Five years from now, grass will be growing in Wall Street and we’ll all be living in caves and eating dirt and banging rocks. Next up: people forget how to make fire…
US federal regulators have warned of a “rampant Ponzimonium” as they disclosed they are investigating “hundreds” of possible scams in the aftermath of the $50bn fraud allegedly perpetrated by Bernard Madoff.
Bart Chilton, a commissioner at the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, the US regulator, said the watchdog was “seeing more of these scams than ever before” in commodities and other futures markets.
Mr Chilton said the CFTC, which patrol commodities and financial futures markets such as derivatives on stocks and foreign exchange, was investigating “hundreds of individuals and entities, many of which were related to Ponzi scams”.
The CFTC has filed charges against 15 alleged Ponzi schemes so far this year, compared with 13 during the whole of 2008. If the rate were sustained, the regulator could end the year filling more than 60 cases, officials said.
US regulators have said they are detecting more scams than before as the publicity surrounding Mr Madoff‘s case prompts some investors to question the credibility of returns.
But this is the first time a senior regulator has publicly put the number of investigation in the “hundreds”…"This is a historic moment, the start of the debasement of the world’s reserve currency, and it feels to many participants that in the grand sweep of history we are witnessing the end of ‘Rome’ on the Potomac," said Alan Ruskin, an RBS strategist."Afghanistan is on the brink of chaos: That is the stark message from local leaders, the US military and development workers in the troubled country. The elected government, they warn, can no longer compete with the Taliban."
bago
@bootlegger: I can haz cheezburger now?
mclaren
Looks like it’s all coming down. The whole financial system is collapsing. Five years from now, grass will be growing in Wall Street and we’ll all be living in caves and eating dirt and banging rocks. Next up: people forget how to make fire…
US federal regulators have warned of a “rampant Ponzimonium” as they disclosed they are investigating “hundreds” of possible scams in the aftermath of the $50bn fraud allegedly perpetrated by Bernard Madoff.
Bart Chilton, a commissioner at the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, the US regulator, said the watchdog was “seeing more of these scams than ever before” in commodities and other futures markets.
Mr Chilton said the CFTC, which patrol commodities and financial futures markets such as derivatives on stocks and foreign exchange, was investigating “hundreds of individuals and entities, many of which were related to Ponzi scams”.
The CFTC has filed charges against 15 alleged Ponzi schemes so far this year, compared with 13 during the whole of 2008. If the rate were sustained, the regulator could end the year filling more than 60 cases, officials said.
US regulators have said they are detecting more scams than before as the publicity surrounding Mr Madoff‘s case prompts some investors to question the credibility of returns.
But this is the first time a senior regulator has publicly put the number of investigation in the “hundreds”…
"This is a historic moment, the start of the debasement of the world’s reserve currency, and it feels to many participants that in the grand sweep of history we are witnessing the end of ‘Rome’ on the Potomac," said Alan Ruskin, an RBS strategist.
"Afghanistan is on the brink of chaos: That is the stark message from local leaders, the US military and development workers in the troubled country. The elected government, they warn, can no longer compete with the Taliban."
bago
Mister Cole, you were linked by Bennen and Greenwald. Good on ya. Also.
Mudge
Unabogie: Calling him the Nobel Prize winner was an identifier, not in any sense a mere appeal to authority, which on the surface is laughable. He makes sense and he has made sense on many issues for many years. Why else prefer his view? Besides, I’d argue Geithner and Obama are more so the authority figures than Krugman in this fight and many are accepting their views blindly.
Certainly Geithner should be well aware of Krugman’s views. If Geithner were concerned about the best approach, he would openly discuss the Krugman, et al., position and provide clear reasons for preferring his approach. If Geithner were mostly concerned with salvaging the financial industry and its employees, regardless of the worthiness of his solution to the U.S.’s recovery, he’d concoct it in secret and provide no particular justifications.
I would like 2 things to happen. The economy to be on solid footing again and for Obama to get the credit for it. It appears neither will come to pass.
And, oh, mine rescue is usually attempted with drilling from the surface. You must have read "The Origin of the Brunists".
bootlegger
@bago: You can always distract an American with a cheeseburger, and I oughta know.
groundhum
They always include extra parts in case you break something, or you need the odd extra part to substitute for the one they left out of the package. This dictum also applies to questions of an economic nature.
mr. whipple
I’m glad you aren’t my brake mechanic.
bootlegger
@Mudge:
Unless you’re Big Bad John.
bootlegger
Big Bad John from a right-wing band.
JenJen
@bago: And Atrios.
I’m sure I am in the super-minority here, but at this particular moment in time, I don’t greet this shoring of opinion as a good thing.
bootlegger
Big Bad John Hefty-style.
Animated Big Bad John
You can also google the DNCs "Exxon John" McCain as well as the video wars over John Cornyn’s use of the tune in the Texas senate race.
Bruce Baugh
For what it’s worth, John, your ongoing interest in not passing yourself off as anything but a guy trying to make sense of things and respond responsibility is a big part of why I’m reading you more than many of the blogs on my list these days. I think that refusal to acknowledge the limits on one’s knowledge is as fundamental to our current tragedies as simple greed and the sense of one’s entitlement to be the boss, and a nasty temptation. Good to get clear of it.
JenJen
@Bruce Baugh: What Bruce Baugh said. He said it eloquently, too.
bootlegger
@JenJen: Dittos, to Big Bad John Cole.
Dennis-SGMM
One good screw will reveal whether the bed frame was properly put together or not.
joe from Lowell
Darn tootin’, John.
Tim Geithner knows more than I do.
He knows more about the financial system than I do. He knows more about economics than I do. He knows more about government economic policy than I do. He knows more about the financial meltdown than I do.
If Tim Geithner and I disagree about how some economic initiative is going to work – not a philosophical disagreement, mind you, but a practical question about policy – Tim Geithner is probably right, and I’m probably wrong.
We’ve all got our reflexes and ideas, but I see a lot of people spouting off way above their pay grade.
gwangung
Yah. This is complex enough that it’s entirely possible that what Krugman et al want is entirely the wrong thing to do, or will result in equally catastrophic results as what’s being done now (for example, what if there’s a 35-40% chance that war erupts in Eastern Europe if too many counter-parties are stiffed?)(Or could it be that a two-three months action like this might make more palatable options more likely?)
El Cid
I think this idea that we should just listen to smart people who are proposing things that seem wrong to the casual observer and wrong to the most correct expert observers because they’re smarter than us is exactly the sort of horrific abdication of democratic responsibilities our Founding Fathers would soundly beat us for.
bootlegger
@gwangung: Good point. Listen folks, we voted for the smart guy for a reason and I’m still giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even Taibbi refused to go after Obama when he was touting his article on the Friday news programs (though he really hates Geithner).
I’m not saying we shouldn’t criticize him, that IMO would be unpatriotic, we should all chime in with our opinions of what our elected leaders do. But I just checked and the sky isn’t falling, my plants are sprouting, the kids are healthy, my wife hasn’t left me, and I have grass-fed natural locally grown beef with a merlot for dinner.
Look at me, Sunny Brightside today.
bootlegger
@El Cid: Yes, of course, we should critique everything they do and not just "leave it to them". But at the end of the day we elected the smart guy for a reason.
Jay McDonough
Well, the worst that can happen is the frame falls apart. In that case, you won’t have far to fall and you’ll have a soft landing.
Jay McDonough
Well, the worst that can happen is the frame falls apart. In that case, you won’t have far to fall and you’ll have a soft landing.
bootlegger
Looks like Memphis is the real deal. One of Maryland’s guards screwed the pooch by saying to the press man that Memphis wouldn’t finish .500 in the ACC. Ooops.
86-63 with 3 minutes to go.
gwangung
Good thing I’m not saying that.
I’m saying that there’s no obvious solutions out there that’s easier and less costly. And that I haven’t been convinced that critics has game planned it sufficiently to account for ALL the potential variable and drawbacks (not just economic, but diplomatic and other areas).
In the end, it comes down to I don’t know enough to determine what’s right, and that it’s helpful (for me at least) to gather more information.
Anoniminous
@Libby:
I’m afraid you mis-identified the tool and procedure. To those with extensive and intensive training and experience in equipment repair, what you called "a hammer" is actually a "Precision Adjustment Tool©." A PAT© ranges from the standard 10 ounce size to those operating at a high, fine, degree of precision weighing in at 10 pounds. These usually suffice for most repair tasks. For enginerring and scientific equipment, e.g., nano-technology, a 10 ton press is used, but that is at the breaking edge of man’s ability to FTGDT¹.
"Banging on the broken thing" is actually the deployment of neuro-musculature memory painstakingly acquired over many years.
I note you did not include "ad-hoc verbal command and communication anthropomorphizing" as part of the standard repair process. This, easily identified, action associates the piece of equipment needing repair or the specific aspect, part, of the equipment undergoing repair to, or with, various human actions, bodily parts, and etc. For example, a determined and judiciously applied "WORK you fucking piece of shit!" is well known to speed the repair task to a successful conclusion.
FTGDT = Fix The Goddamn Thing
different church-lady
This is germane:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/long_light.png
bootlegger
@Anoniminous: Full of win to anyone that’s tried to work on the so-called modern horseless carriage.
I swear to god, my ’93 pickup started to stall out, a problem I learned in my early auto repair days (on a ’72 Dodge Coronet my folks gave me to fix and use) was related to the fuel pump and filter.
I looked for the damned fuel pump and filter for two hours before I gave up and called AAA and had it towed to the shop. Turns out the damned things are *inside the fuel tank* and it costs $400 to repair! Back in the day that was 20 minutes and $20, tops.
Laura W
@bootlegger: oooooooo….Wini and I have a yummy POTUS sandwich going on.
eemom
@Bruce Baugh:
I third that, and perhaps that is one reason this blog produces intelligent discussion in the comments, rather than the extremes of moronic sheep-like yes-manning vs. fuck you, you suck that comprise the comments section of many other blogs.
I name no names, of course…..
bago
@bootlegger: See, this is a balance between modularity of construction and repair. From the manufacturers perspective, if the fuel doohicky is bad they just swap out the entire fuel tank assembly that is standardized among 15 different product lines for 50 bucks in parts and 20$ labor. From a repair perspective, well, you know it’s going to take a certain amount of time to dismantle the assembly and replace the defective part.
Of course the manufacturer has jack in shipping costs for the parts, while a single fuel tank might be kind of expensive to move from a warehouse to a garage.
So many balances to strike.
As an engineer, most will directly benefit your employer, as illustrated by xkcd.
Anoniminous
@bootlegger:
Thank You. :-)
At times I think the stupidest decision of my life was to sell my ’65 Chevy Nova. Yeah the damn thing got 12 mpg (when going down a mountain) but the miscellaneous worthless parts were there as opposed to the miscellaneous worthless parts being inaccessible to a standard issue human being.
JenJen
Interesting comments, everyone. Maybe I’m not so entrenched in the super-minority as I thought.
gizmo
It’s simple. Insert Tab B into Slot C.
Ronzoni Rigatoni
Jeebus, I gotta do everything? The extra piece is prolly a center support. Even some queenies have this. If it’s not a big deal, install it. Otherwise, just shove it under the bed and fuggedaboudtit. Assuming everything is adequately positioned on the external frame, the rigid box spring frame will support you and any number of visitors. How do I know this? Well, my extra piece went in the garbage years ago. And, few as they were, the extra "visitors" never dented it despite some strenuous activity. The wifey and I are still using it.
JGabriel
Libby @ 15:
Err, umm, it’s not really that new. I’ve been doing it since the early 90’s, ad I’m pretty sure it goes back to at least the 80’s, possibly the 70’s or even earlier. It’s a relict from the dial-up bulletin board days, where text only meant no italics or bolding, and asterisks were used for emphasis.
It’s always bugged me that BJ treated them as a bold tag, which it also did on the old platform. Asterisks were more commonly used like an italics tag rather than bold.
This message brought to you courtesy of "Geeks Who Really Aren’t THAT Old, But Are Starting To Feel It".
.
bago
@gizmo: Trying so hard not to make an anal joke. Failing.
bootlegger
@Anoniminous: My boys are 6 and 7 and I’d love to buy them one of those old steel cars that you can actually work on but need a job to drive. Figure it will keep them safe AND limit their effective range. Of course that’s balanced against putting that kind of horsepower in the hands of teenagers AND that whole carbon global warming thingy.
When they are 16 of course.
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
I had an extra piece left over from a futon frame once. It was fine for sleeping, but fell apart during more energetic activity. Which was embarrassing.
I recommend putting more effort into locating the proper place and usage of the extra piece.
.
John Cole
If anyone is curious how much farther Reason magazine has to fall before it bottoms out completely, I just watched a video of senior editor Michael Moynihan on the Glenn Beck show sniggering about bailouts.
I remember when Moynihan was a minor-league wingnut who ran a site called the Politburo. At least I think it is the same Mike Moynihan.
What a sad joke Reason has become.
John Cole
BTW, the more I read about this plan the less I like. It just seems like a new way to transfer money to the banks from the taxpayers while having all their future bets guaranteed by the taxpayer, with no upside for anyone but the people who made this mess. It just looks like more looting, prolonging the bubble for a bit and even re-inflating it before a bigger crash in a little bit with this crash completely guaranteed by… the taxpayers instead of the bank.
I may be emotionally swinging from worst case scenario to worst case scenario and reading only the most pessimistic of accounts, but right now after what I have read to day, I can not honestly say that I know the situation might be worse under McCain. At least then there is a chance the Wasilla wingnut would get confused and accidentally nuke Paulson instead of Putin.
srv
For Geithner (and Obama) to be right, what Goldman Sachs and all hold are realistically priced assets. The gov’t has thrown a trillion against the wall to make the market buy that, and it hasn’t worked. Now, it wants private investors to ride to the rescue, and I’m sure that will happen because investors can rely on Barney, Chuck, and Obama not going AIG on them down the road.
Are people so blinded by partisanship or fear that they still don’t get it? You can clap as hard as you want, it isn’t going to re-inflate that condo in Vegas, and it isn’t going to save those Alt-A’s on main street.
JGabriel
From The Tennesean, via TPM:
les
@Anoniminous:
I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Anoniminous
@bootlegger:
Be prepared for a wee bit o’ sticker shock.
$42,000 ?!?!?1!1????
Comrade Stuck
I think that’s pretty much the plan. A shit sandwich with all the fixins’. Trouble is, so far, no other wizards have come up with a plan that doesn’t include most average American’s losing their nesteggs and shirts, that is short of nationalizing the entire finance sector, or even FIRE sector/ And if people think that’s cheaper, I have a bridges to sell. though it may be the best way to stabilize and reform, it would come with all sorts of long term and unforeseen consequences IMHO>
gwangung
Is it even possible? More than a few folks have argued that it’s not doable, and I haven’t heard why not.
JGabriel
John Cole @ 93:
For what it’s worth, Roubini had been predicting that the gov’t will take most of the major banks into receivership sometime around the upcoming summer or early autumn, once it becomes clear that even the ones that look strong, like Morgan Chase, are gonna fail. I don’t know if Roubini still believes that, but if he does, and if he’s right (again), then the Geithner plan will end up functioning as just a placeholder until then without having done too damage.
I have no idea whose right in all of this, but that caveat seemed to be worth throwing into the mix of opinions we’re looking at here.
.
Ash
I’m the only one in my pool if a 60 or so that didn’t pick UNC to win it all. PLEASE DON’T THROW IT AWAY LSU.
Comrade Stuck
@gwangung:
Is it even possible?
Of course comrade, anything is possible twith the peoples collective.
les
@John Cole:
OK, time for more drugs or some sharing of the new queen size or some involved, intricate food prep. McCain is hidden under his Senate desk, twittering feverishly about earmarks. I don’t know whether Giethner knows jack, and I distrust Summers from his days deregulating with the Clenis and the DLC, and Krugman has a Nobel but god he’s shrill, and the blogs don’t like anything, and omg we’re all gonna die!!! But damn, John, McCain is a lethal combo of stupid, ignorant and crazy, and he’s dedicated to a fucked ideology. You’re better than that.
I watched Maher last night, for a change; and listened to a WSJ columnist be concerned about "ooh, he’s trying too much, blah blah blah." But then he said–ya know, we will get out of this. Not without pain–and the pain may not be applied where you and I would prefer–but in 10 years we’ll look back and say, damn, how did we manage that? We might just be another great generation.
Personally, I’m terrified short term. Job, can I get the kids through school, will I die in the office, yada yada. But goddammit, we have a shitload of bright, energetic people; and they don’t all work (or shortly won’t) in finance; and yeah, the fucking elite will come out fine, but I don’t think we’re all going to the fridge box village and, hell, maybe we’ll get some legal drugs out of the deal.
Hang in, my man; look at the gang you attract to this dump, and wonder, and post some more puppies in between dooming and glooming.
None of which means dooming and glooming ain’t appropriate and warranted; but jeebus, Grampy Angrypants might be better?
Laura W
John can we please have an open thread.
The LSU-UNC game is…er…intense.
Ash
@les: I do believe you’ve just won the entire internet.
Comrade Stuck
@Ash:
I do hereby second that.
Grampy Angrypants
Tee Hee!
Laura W
@les:
Reminds of when he (being John Cole) compared the pre-Inaug concert and other festivities to some sort of Princess Di-related event.
IIRC, a big hug, a long nap, and a cayenne pepper massage were all prescribed.
Maybe he’ll get all three on the new bed.
les
@Ash:
Damn, can I trade it for a good beer?
mr. whipple
And I think it’s important to point out that if the gov *does* do this to certain banks, they won’t announce it ahead of time.
Steeplejack
@Dustin:
Fix’d.
Cain
@Laura W: He just needs to get laid. :)
Laura W
@Cain: Venus — Mars.
Same end goal.
;-)
sweetgreensnowpea
have you ever seen the movie "doc hollywood"? a sweet, fluff michael j fox film re a plastic surgeon who ditches his car and gets stuck in a small southern town on his way to riches and glory in california?
at the end of the flick the mechanics who’ve fixed his car hand him a box of parts they found that there was no place for and they didn’t know what to do with.
sounds like your bed.
i haven’t read any of the other comments. i’m ponzipaloozaed out.
i visit your site daily but must say the pictures of your parents puppies ("PUPPIES!" the same way jimmy stewart says "KIDS!" toward the end of "it’s a wonderful life") always make me smile.
is there some genetic thing in you that turned you from a rethug into a human that we can distill and bottle and slip into the water?
i forgot to mention fox’s car was an old porsche boxer.
sweetgreensnowpea
i forgot to mention fox’s car was an old porsche boxster
les
funny and not OT
sweetgreensnowpea
technopeasantry prohibits me from doing computerese properly.
i apologize for my redundance
Ash
Shouldn’t be too hard. It is just a bunch of tubes after all.
mey
@bootlegger:
The sky is NOT falling. The suckers have been cleaned out, and now we have a new set of suckers being cleaned out. And as long as we keep up these shenanigans, we’re going to have even more suckers cleaned out.
Comrade Stuck
@mey:
Not to worry. Endless supply, as one is born every minute, give or take/
Zuzu's Petals
Okay, since this is an open thread …
Am planning on a cross-country train trip to attend a graduation in upstate NY mid-May. I live in No. Calif.
Thinking of getting a rail pass that’ll allow me to get off and on along the way.
So far looks like I’ll take the Southwest Chief out of LA, definitely stop at the Grand Canyon and maybe Santa Fe.
Then change at Chicago to Lake Shore Ltd to upstate NY, then later to NYC and DC to visit friends.
Then back to Chicago and maybe take the Empire Builder to Portland to visit family, maybe a stop at Glacier Natl Pk along the way, then home on one of the Calif.-bound trains.
Any thoughts, suggestions, etc. ?
gwangung
@les:
BWAH HAHA HAHA HAHA!
sweetgreensnowpea
re mey:
suckers. what a wonderful way to describe the hard working people all over the world who’ve put their savings into pension funds and investments they were assured would be there for them…
christians don’t believe in evolution but somehow the obscenely greedy have managed to remove any pesky genes related to compassion or empathy from their beings.
the hardest thing about all of this…that the entire system was set up to harvest the wealth of the babyboomers, is that the barn door has closed after the horses have fled.
those of us who spent the last 40 years putting $ into the system are f#&ked.
what would you suggest we "suckers" have done?
TheOfficialHatOnMyCat
Looks like the administration is going to go straight at the fat cat compensation issue.
They had debated whether to just sit back and yell that all fat cats were poopyheads, but apprently decided that this was a better idea.
Chuck Butcher
@Anoniminous:
I know where you can get a 1962 Chevy II Nova, but it’ll cost you $14K and it will get 15mpg on 92 octane. A hill won’t make any difference, but it will go 0-42 mph in 60′, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, and you will look really good driving it. It stops and handles better than most new cars, but if you do something publicly stupid the cops will know who it was, no anonymity.
Elie
Mudge @57
"If Geithner were concerned about the best approach, he would openly discuss the Krugman, et al., position and provide clear reasons for preferring his approach. If Geithner were mostly concerned with salvaging the financial industry and its employees, regardless of the worthiness of his solution to the U.S.’s recovery, he’d concoct it in secret and provide no particular justifications."
It sounds almost like you think that Geithner should somehow be justifying himself to Krugman. I allow that at some point we all should be aware of Geithner’s policy and justification but you then conclude that somehow if Geithner doesnt somehow go to Krugman (and you of course, know that he didnt have a conversation with Krugman and a bunch of folks) — but for the sake of your argument — if Geithner does not go to Krugman its because he is just "mostly concerned with the employees of the financial industry". You know that of course…
What is interesting to me is the certainty of your statement without any reservation that you have limits in what you know about the situation. You assume for one, that unless Geithner does exactly what Krugman wants and can clearly tell us all of the issues that went into his decision making, that he is all for the financial sector. You also assume that Krugman’s solution — nationalization — is the whole and correct solution — without in this post at least, specifying ANY reservation on that side of the equation. Has it even remotely ocurred to you that Krugman might not be right? Or may only be partially right? That Krugman may not have all the facts (not being in the administration and receiving hopefully much more information) and therefore might not be in a position to make an appropriate recommendation?
I absolutely have my reservations about Geithner/Summers on this and I definitely have not agreed with some of the most recent actions/statements coming from them — But to make such sweeping conclusions from so little information is pretty amazing…
One thing I really hate in what I am seeing from the blog world and MSM right now: Impatience and very little sense of how policy is made. Very little discussion of cost/benefit and trade offs rather than absolutes. People scarily seem to think that " if only this decision is made, we will have a complete smooth recovery with no down side". My personal opinion is that no matter who made whatever decision, our recovery is going to be choppy and what is even more fundamental, the economic and political system that will evolve to replace it is going to take a long time — a long, at times painful time because the degree of corruption throughout our culture is profound.
I am an optimist and I always hope for the best and can see good things in bad situations. However, I believe that we will be tested in ways that we have not known in a long time. Given the level of impatience and narrow focus that I see displayed in our blind critiques, I am very concerned about our ability to handle it.
Steeplejack
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Just a quickie response, in case you come back to this thread. Definitely stop off in Santa Fe. I visited there only once, for a week in about ’98-99, but I really liked it. If you haven’t been there before, I would suggest it as a place to visit just to see how you like the vibe (and I usually hate that word). In some ways I felt like I had come home, and I don’t get that feeling often. I definitely intend to go back at some point.
Oh, yeah, and lots of great restaurants.
kuvasz
like the two posts earlier, i assume that the extra piece is used as a brace and placed on the outside of the connection that holds the two "L" shaped pieces together.
go back and look because you will likely have the mattress fall off the frame shortly, and if your dogs are under the bed when it happens don’t complain to me. the nastiest things can readily happen because of a moment of laziness.
bago
Technoviking approves.
les
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Zuzu, the Southwest Chief is a fun ride; at least, from Kansas City to Santa Fe. But be warned–it doesn’t actually go to Santa Fe, it stops at a station in a ghost town in the middle of nowhere, 1/2 an hour or so from town. If you don’t want to walk, arrange a ride before you leave–there’s no transport, no food, no water, etc. The ride through the Rockies is incredible, though.
VH
at least you spelled stationary right
Chuck Butcher
@Anoniminous:
Depends on what year and it must be numbers matching and that would be market price.
Comrade Kevin
I may have missed this, but has anyone else watched that Will Ferrell "You’re Welcome America" show? I’ve been going thru computer backup hell, and may have missed mention of it.
I’m watching a recording of it now, and it’s pretty damn funny.
Zuzu's Petals
@les:
Wow, thanks for the heads up. I was just about to respond to Steeplejack that, having never been to Santa Fe (or NM), I planned to see as much of the town as possible. Figuring I would get a nice scenery fix on the train coming and going.
I hear the Grand Canyon stop is similar. That is, you get off in Flagstaff, and somehow get to Williams (bus?) and thence to the GC… think I’ll have to spend the night at GC, then another at Flagstaff because the train leaves at 6am.
Zuzu's Petals
@Comrade Kevin:
Saw it, thought it funny but not in an SNL kinda way. Some almost somber moments.
Trivia points: the Secret Service agent is actually Will Ferrell’s brother, Patrick.
Comrade Kevin
@Zuzu’s Petals: Sardonic is the word I was looking for.
Zuzu's Petals
@Comrade Kevin:
Good word.
TheHatOnMyCat
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Shuttle from Flagstaff to Williams.
You can do the entire Flag-Williams-GC-Flag thing in one day.
Zuzu's Petals
@TheHatOnMyCat:
Kewl …thanks !
HeartlandLiberal
Post a picture of the extra piece, so we can advise you on where to stick it??
Overland
Zuzu-Look into the Izaak Walton Inn at Essex MT for a possible stopover on the return trip if you take the Empire Builder; the train pretty much stops at the front door. Probably not the primary means to access Glacier Park but might work for you.
Zuzu's Petals
@Overland:
Thanks !