Joe Klein, in an excellent put-down of Charles Krauthammer, writes:
<blockquote><p>And there was–oh. my. God.–the failed North Korean rocket launch. The Gates Defense budget is cutting anti-missile defense systems in Alaska. More Obama wimposity! Except that Gates has decided not to spend tens of billions on an anti-missile system (that doesn’t work) to counter a North Korean rockets (that don’t work) carrying North Korean atomic bombs (that have, so far, fizzled when tested). The real North Korean threat, created by George W. Bush’s first-term ineptness, is the nuclear fuel that was produced in the past six years–fuel that the wildly impoverished North Koreans could sell to terrorists or rogue states (as they sold their nuclear plant design to the Syrians). That is a threat that doesn’t yield easily to the empty bluster of neocons–indeed, it was accelerated by US bluster.</p><p> The point is that Krauthammer’s nonsense–the whole neoconservative project–proved an utter failure during the Bush years and now exists well outside a vast, stable, liberal-moderate consensus on foreign policy that includes most Democrats, the Bush 41 realists and the leading strategists of the U.S. military.</p></blockquote>
He may be right about the foreign policy community, but it’s foolish to think that neocon tropes haven’t thoroughly infected our national dialog. Broder’s comments about how Obama had to bomb or attack…or I’m not sure what, frankly…the pirates and the North Koreans are a case in point.
As happy as I am that Obama has put American diplomacy back on the right track, we need to admit that idiotic neocon ideas still have tremendous sway. The idea that we can and need to “get somebody” the moment something goes wrong is still very powerfully ingrained in the punditocracy.
Jon
The neo-con ideas have major sway among the foreign policy/political writers, but they don’t seem to have much sway even among the electorate on the right–much less among independents/the left. The best example of this is how little the Glenn Becks, Rushes, O’Reillys etc etc spend time trying to make these issues to attack Obama with.
Cat Lady
Wired For Republicans, as Josh at TPM so accurately described. It’s going to take the failure of newspapers – wiping the slate clean – to get rid of the stale pundits spewing stale Republican talking points.
demkat620
According to Brad Blakeman this morning on MSNBC, these ragtag Somali pirates have brought the entire US Navy to its knees.
So no, it never stops.
MattF
I’m so glad to see a brand-name media type put it to Krauthammer. The neocon advocates of bombing North Korea, or Iran, or Somali pirates, or whatever, are just completely batshit crazy. Saying so publicly is waaay overdue.
Corner Stone
Made the mistake of watching some MTP this morning. Every person in the discussion said a variety of how Obama was being "tested" by NK and the pirates (or Pirates if you’re Broder).
The sheer militancy…I’m looking for a word to describe how latent the underpinning aggressiveness was in their comments. It was universal that the US had to bomb the shit outta somebody or else Obama is Carter-redux.
It was disgusting.
someguy
I’m glad that somebody is keeping after this miserable missile defense failure. Aside from the technical difficulties (you can’t hit a bullet with a bullet), does anybody really believe the U.S. ought to be able to act with impunity on the world stage, free from the threat of retaliation from the countries we bully? It seems to me that if North Korea and Iran could back up their threats just a little better, it would keep the U.S. from meddling in the Pacific and Middle East.
Corner Stone
And Sweet Baby Jeebus but here’s Newt on This Week dishing out his invective. The man is truly a hideous monster with only one agenda. Why? Why do they keep giving him a mic? Don’t answer that.
FSM save us all.
Dennis-SGMM
"When all you have is a hammer…"
The DPRK has one million men under arms, Somalia defines weaponized chaos. We have enough spare troops to maybe invade Liechtenstein.
Broder needs to tie some fresh onions to his belt, the old ones are starting to stink.
Corner Stone
Sure you can. Didn’t you see *Wanted* with Angelina Jolie?
MattF
Hitting a bullet-with-a-bullet is tough, but the real problem with missile defense is what’s called ‘command and control’. Even under ideal conditions, there’s a very narrow window in time and space for firing an anti-missile. This means that when a decision has to be made, it has to be made right now. It also means that there has to be an elaborate (and expensive) superstructure of preparation and reporting and materiel. Of course, these qualities make it attractive to the Pentagon– but… that shouldn’t be the determining factor.
Jon
@Corner Stone: Yeah, its absurd. Newt and the Neocons wanted Obama to start a war five the size of Iraq over a missile test? Who cares about NK’s missile test? It doesn’t change anything in Asia except alienate China/NK that much more and show how much of a Potemkin village NK is.
gbear
And in cats too.
Mike in NC
Well, you didn’t want to know but I’ll go there anyway: Newt — appropriately named after a slimy thing that lives under rocks — has been declared the GOP frontrunner for 2012 by the Beltway punditocracy, despite that fact that he’s merely recycling ideas that got him chased out of politics in 1994. What goes around comes around.
flounder
The neocon jrs. at my local paper decided to get in on the act. Any chance to claim Obama failed they can get. Extra bonus is these armchair quarterbacks suggested plans to show off our strength, like having Navy Seals swim under their boat and tip it over.
gbear
Whoa, that’s a pretty big jump in logic there. I can see maybe making that argument with 24-hr cable news stations, but there are still some good investigative writers who occasionally get to do some deep reporting at the papers. My wish would be for a renaissance of newspapers rather than their failure.
Boudica
I really have to fault a steady diet of Clint Eastwood and John Wayne movies on these people’s view that America’s need to attack any provocation. I blame Hollywood!
Bill H
And, don’t imagine otherwise, in the midbrain-controlled thinking of a very large portion of the nation’s population. McCain (and/or Palin) got 47% of the vote.
El Cid
All you liberals are wrong, and you don’t understand the threats we face. If we don’t stop the Sandinistas now, soon the Nicaraguans will be driving up through Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica, and then Mexico before reaching Harlingen, Texas. Only Ronald Reagan is man enough to keepusafe.
Bob In Pacifica
In the middle of a national news broadcast last night (think it was ABC but it might have been one of the other two) a talking head was inserted into the middle of the story about the pirates and the hostage who said twice that if Obama doesn’t rescue the captain then he and America will be considered "weak."
This is a typical propaganda theme trotted out when a Democrat is in the White House. Note that when Daniel Pearl’s head was chopped off in Pakistan (our ally) that there wasn’t any attempt by the talking heads to call Bush "weak" because of it. Rather, Bush was strong and decisive. Remember, an Iraqi nuclear weapon could have hit London within forty-five minutes, yada yada. Bush was strong.
This same technique has been used in the media since at least Carter and the continuing propaganda in the media about the hostages in Iran. It should be noted that there is more than enough information out there to at least suspect and more appropriately believe that the Iranians’ hostages’ stay had been extended by elements within the Republican Party and their friends within the government in order to show how "weak" Carter was and thus show how "strong" Reagan was in comparison.
How many people know that Colonel Oliver North had been part of the planning of the failed rescue plan under Carter? That failed rescue plan was also offered as proof that Carter was "weak." Could such a true believer as North have been willing to sabotage such a rescue attempt in order to advance Reagan over Carter? Nah. He would wage illegal wars, send weapons to our enemies, support the grossest violations of human rights, do business with drug dealers and create a criminal financial network to move the money around the world… but Ollie North would never sabotage a military mission to advance Reagan over Carter (/snark).
Keep your eyes open, folks. It’s already started.
Brian J
It’s been a few years since I’ve studied any of this stuff, so I’m not going to try to explain my thoughts in any technical terms.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s good for countries like Iran and North Korea to have access to dangerous weapons, even if it does keep our hegemony in check. There are elements in those societies that want countries like ours destroyed, after all, and there are other ways we can prevent them from trying to prevent us from having too much power.
If we’re to assume the role of a leader for the world, it’d be good for us to adopt the mindset that we need to act in ways that actually entitles us to have that responsibility. At least one big part of this is not reacting with a rush to judgment and extremely belligerence to any perceived threat. In other words, we need to stop talking about bombing North Korea or Iran any time they do something that gives us the slightest pause, without ruling out military action if it’s absolutely necessary. I keep trying to think of an appropriate analogy for this, but suffice it to say that if we act arbitrarily, we lose credibility. If we establish rules and stick by them, perhaps we’ll have more success in getting other nations to stick by them. Then, hopefully, the need for any such bombings, small as it is now, will be even smaller.
I could go on, but I think my point is clear. I don’t think any of this is really outside the mainstream of thought, or to put it another way, I think it is inside the mainstream, as in reality-based.
wmd
Actually some missile defense does work – theater missile defense. Which is why Gates has called for upgrades to Aegis equipped destroyers and cruisers to carry the SM-3/RIM-161 missiles.
Japan is also equipping some of its warships with these systems to defend against the North Korean missile forces. It should be noted that the USN warships would be able to protect against the theoretical "Iranian" missile attack against Europe or Israel from positions in the Med or Black Sea, which was Bush/Rumsfeld’s reason for the Czech/Polish missile defense systems.
What got cut was development funding for long range missile defense – specifically programs that attempt to defeat MIRV payloads. Given that we’re planning on bilateral strategic arms reductions this makes sense to me – Russia is not intent on MAD and it seems unlikely that either the US or Russia will return to this, even as Russia develops their offensive missile capacity. Russia seems to be calling us on our missile defense bet by developing a new class of MIRV’d SLBMs, I doubt the Russian’s money would have been spent otherwise. Strategic missile defense restarts an arms race that theater or tactical missile defense does not.
Punchy
I think Obama’s penchant for cutting the Navy’s budget (motto: we can always use more seamen!) is directly tied to the pirate problem. Aaaaarrrrrghh.
On a serious note, this kidnapping of an American is really starting to neo-con my brain. Part of me wants to just nuke Somalia and all the cretin pirate fucks within.
gbear
@Punchy:
According to this story, Europe is already nuking Somalia by dumping radioactive waste into the sea off their shores.
Llelldorin
Wow. I just followed flounder’s link above. It was bizarre: a mix of statements that looked recycled from the old "we need to invade Iraq because if we don’t kick the shit out of a minor nuisance no-one will take us seriously" and plans for resolving the pirate standoff that sound like they don’t quite get the difference between actual military strategy and playing with toy boats in a bathtub.
If that’s your local paper, flounder, I’m very, very sorry. With writing like that, you couldn’t even trust them on crime reports and city council meeting reporting.
El Cid
The Bush 1 invasion of Somalia, ostensibly for ‘humanitarian’ reasons against the objections of nearly all policy analysts as well as the humanitarian workers there on the ground, was a terrible and idiotic destabilizing force, the idiocy of which is now vanished down the memory hole and replaced with decontextualized outrage over "Blackhawk Down" (blamed on Clinton, of course, given the magic of the conservative non-responsibility principle).
It would be awesome if our foreign policy establishmentarians could honor the basic driving principle behind the Hippocratic oath (at least in its popular form): "First, Do No Harm."
Stop making the situation worse. That would be a good place to start.
Dracula
@flounder: I kinda like the tip-it-over idea. I’m sure they got some cool-ass underwater subs. maybe just drill a hole in the bottom from underwater and see if these thugs can do butterfly.
JL
Is this Beck’s idea of a sick joke?
DanSmoot'sGhost
Wow, Krauthammer, with a hint of Broder.
You are out there on the leading edge, Doug. Really. That’s where the world pivots this morning, on what the Krauthammers and the Broders are doing.
( rolls eyes )
Okay, what’s the takeaway here? That the neocon worldview is going to turn out to be like the common cold …. we will just never be free of its miseries despite swallowing handfuls of pills and lozenges?
Hmm. I think the idea that if a Krauthammer farts, we all have to dash over and smell it, is even more ingrained in the ‘ocracy.
I have not read a Krauthammer piece in ten years. Don’t intend to start now. Outside of this asylum day room, does anyone know two people who actually read the guy? Or ever heard of him?
Oh yeah, and a Happy Krauthammer Easter to all of you.
Dennis-SGMM
@Dracula:
Only problem with that is that it’s a covered lifeboat, pretty large, and designed not to capsize.
iluvsummr
@Punchy: Well before you start nuking Somalia, listen to one Somali perspective. Then ignore it, focus on the Somali sea-gangsters and nuke with a clear conscience.
Corner Stone
@Punchy
Oh, I completely agree! I mean, they’re just so…dark skinned! And, of course, so poor! And desperate. Not *our* kind of people at all.
Someone really needs to wipe them off the face of the earth.
iluvsummr
Ooh the joys of being in moderation. Happy Easter all, I’m out.
DanSmoot'sGhost
Luckily, we have Glenn Beck and his army of patriots.
Drunk on the successes of their tea parties this week, they will pivot to Somalia as the central issue of the time (after socialism and gay marriage).
Also, I intend to use the word "pivot" until I just wear it out. It’s my own little personal protest against non-president Obama and his missing certificate of jive birth.
Llelldorin
Seriously? Beck wants to do Paine????
I’m guessing that he hasn’t actually heard of The Age of Reason, which I doubt modern conservatives would like very much.
DanSmoot'sGhost
@iluvsummr:
I know the feeling. For not nearly the first time, a post of mine completely disappeared after being submitted. No moderation, no error message, just poof. And then if you try to repost it, you get the "duplicate comment" error. I have seen this probably fifty times on this site over the last year.
Usually, after a while, the post may just show up on the thread. Or not, you never know.
update: Wow, changed the text and reposted and it disappeared again! Hilarious. This site is just constantly entertaining.
DanSmoot'sGhost
Reposted, because the site really just doesn’t work. It will probably end up showing up twice. I don’t care.
Luckily, we have Glenn Beck and vast his army of patriots.
Drunk on the successes of their tea parties this week, they will pivot to Somalia as the central issue of the time (after socialism and gay marriage).
Also, I intend to use the word "pivot" until I just wear it out. It’s my own little personal protest against non-president Obama and his missing certificate of jive birth.
PanAmerican
This isn’t Kennedy’s blockade of Cuba. It’s Dog Day Afternoon on the high seas.
It’s an insurance grift. I’d be willing to bet the Somalis are making pennies on the dollar. The majority of the profits are being skimmed in London or NYC or Singapore or where ever.
DanSmoot'sGhost
Reposted, because the site really just doesn’t work. It will probably end up showing up twice. I don’t care.
Luckily, we have Glenn Beck and vast his army of patriots.
Drunk on the successes of their tea parties this week, they will pivot to Somalia as the central issue of the time (after socia*lism and gay marriage).
Also, I intend to use the word "pivot" until I just wear it out. It’s my own little personal protest against non-president Obama and his missing certificate of jive birth.
Update: Ah, that mod filter. Just amazing. Okay, let’s try this.
update2: Yep, it was the mod filter. What a friggin hoot. Im outta here, i have better things to do today than futz around with this piece of junk.
wilfred
All this pirate wanking reeks of the ‘send me the pictures and I’ll send you the war’ kind of journalism that we always get. As if on cue, the Times runs an opinion peace by, who else?, neo-con icon Robert Kaplan on how to stop piracy, which begins with the conveniently ahistorical:
and descends into the usual bollocks.
The slogan was ‘Perdicaris alive, or the Rasouli dead’, wait a day or two and even that will be resurrected.
wasabi gasp
Krauthammer sure sounds like a wiener to be reckoned with, but his Vienna sausage is just baloney while the Rutt’s Hut Ripper relishes the glory.
Nellcote
per CNN, Capt. Philips has been released and is unharmed.
Mike in NC
I like that phrase.
Before this day is out I suspect Dick Cheney will be surfacing from his undisclosed location to lecture some fawning media type on how the pirate "threat" should be handled.
El Cid
I know! We could hire the tea party protesters to go to Somalia, live in that low-tax, government-free paradise, and use their natural yeoman toughness to teach those lawbreakers a lesson!
omen
wingers have forgotten how bush handled the US military plane that china forced down and held the crewmen hostage. bush apologized to china for the incident.
omen
@gbear:
larry summers, mr. africa is underpolluted, must be thrilled.
Andrew
The pirates have brought Obama to his knees!
Wait, the captain is free and the pirates are dead?
We have George W. Bush’s navy to thank!
Cain
Can’t we just get the Phantom to fix this problem? He’s been doing it for generations I hear!
cain
El Cid
@Mike in NC: I consider it the political analogue to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
Whereas the Heisenberg’s work is often stated as…
…it would seem to me that there must be a parallel principle for conservative / modern right wing (choose your favorite term) policies, such that they may take infinite claims for anything suggested to be good as to be based in their policies and ideas, whereas anything suggested as negative or undesirable is produced by the presence of liberalism or the absence of sufficient conservatism / rightism.
I.e., the deregulatory banking and investment policies pushed by the right wing movement since the 1970s and culminating in (1) the S&L party and (2) the Phil Gramm pushed / Clinton signed Glass-Steagall repeal and the budget-inserted Commodities Futures Modernization Act could have zero negative impact on our economy and banking system.
That is unpossible, since it was pushed by conservatives, Ronald Reagan, and the right wing in general.
Instead the consequences are clearly connected to the CRA, Jimmy Carter, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Nancy Pelosi, and ACORN, because they are not conservative.
Maybe someone can rewrite it better. I’ve got lawnwork to do, because ACORN and Barney Frank are making weeds grow and stuff. Damn them.
AkaDad
Charles Krauthammer is the type of guy I’d like to shock and awe countries with.
Bruce
@AkaDad:
you mean because he’s shockingly ignorant and awe-inspiringly two-faced??
and yes…i am a fuuurner….
smiley
@Andrew: Wingnuts ask why President Obama took so long to do what they said he should do in 3…2…1…
anonevent
@JL: Eddie Izzard can follow him and correct everything, in heals. And actually be funny.
omen
pity we can’t harness this reflex and apply it to wall street or the bush crime regime.
Ike Jakson
I stumbled into your Blog in the Swampland Post at:
http://time.chtah.com/a/tBJ4dRABASRffB7SaZ5-KOMkr$n/time13-19
They are having a street fight tearing each other apart with arguments that have nothing to do with Klein’s article in the Blog, at a level of inglorious absurdity that one would expect from old democracies like Somali, South Africa, Afghanistan [to name but a few] and I wonder or doubt whether anyone has stopped to think what the Whole World [Old or new Order] may think of the United States.
Have a look at:
New Americans Read This Please
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/oldmovieguy/blog/2009/04/10/new_americans_read_this_please
and in my Blog at:
http://ikejakson.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/y%e2%80%99all-wanna-see-american-unity/
In conclusion, has it occurred to anyone [doesn’t seem like it has to any participant in the street fight in Joe’s Blog] to ask Joe Klein to name just a few of the “vast, stable, liberal-moderate consensus on foreign policy” that he mentions in his [as] usual vitriolic tirade to “blame it all on Bush? Klein wears many faces and speaks from both sides of the mouth and I doubt the wisdom to tear the country apart based on Joe Klein’s opinions. Read all the Comments in the Swampland Blog and decide for yourself.
someguy
If by ‘released’ you mean taken into U.S. Navy company after his captors killed in a burst of intense violence by a team of SEALs, then yes, you are correct. He was "released." As usual, we gave up on negotiation really quickly. This will no doubt lead to a huge escalation of the Somali problem; bet you see a whole bunch of news stories about the Somali diaspora going all radical on us real soon.
It ain’t Mr. Hearst’s war, but it may be Mr. Murdoch’s next one.
srv
Perhaps Obama should fly down and prance around a carriers flight deck. Would love to see the right go ape over that.
That said, Obama hasn’t stopped the disturbing trend of putting soldiers on the stage with him as a backdrop. As much as the Baghdad crowd appeared to love him, that isn’t the point.
El Cid
@srv:
It would never happen because Obama’s sane and a grownup, unlike Commander Codpiece Flightsuit Jr., but yeah, it would be funny for Obama to welcome home the first combat divisions beginning to return from Iraq by doing something like landing on the national mall in a V-22 Osprey and jumping out in a black flightsuit, black beret, AR-15 (or whatever), black Ray-Ban sunglasses, preceded by a squadron of identically dressed black female guards (the Soul Sistah Security Squad, of course) in front of a gigantic set of LED bilboards flashing "TROOPS HOME! KICKASS!"
Svensker
@Punchy:
.
They are desperately poor. We (the West) destroyed their fishery — their primary means of supporting their families — and destroyed their government. What could possibly go wrong? How dare they try do anything except drop down and die without bothering us about it.
LD50
The prospect of murdering millions of foreign brown people always holds the promise of making conservatives feel all better again when they’re frightened.
LD50
…
Zuzu's Petals
. . .
gbear
@El Cid:
I LOLed. I want to see that.
Wile E. Quixote
Charles Krauthammer is as crippled intellectually and morally as he is physically. I have to wonder how much of the bile and nonsense he spews is due to his bitterness over being a cripple and not just because he’s another chickenshit Canadian neocon nutjob like Mark Stain and the Daves, Frum and Brooks.
Wile E. Quixote
@El Cid
The only thing that could make that better is if Obama grew a huge bushy fro so he looked even more like a black militant from the 70s, and if he could somehow broadcast a subliminal message on the Faux News Network that said "All your white women are belong to us! Bitchez!"
Bulworth
Neoconservatism has never failed, it has only been failed.
YellowJournalism
I would be interested in finding out who the "rich man’s Seinfeld" is.
cosanostradamus
.
Come on, give cabbage-bonker a break! It’s gotta be a full time job, almost, justifying his salary. Was it him or Bonzo Beck that came up with the Faux(News)-Populist Thai Tea Party?
.