Reading this transcript of her NPR appearance, it sure seems like Harman is in a heap of trouble. As someone emailed me, she contradicts herself and then becomes very evasive. I do find it amusing that she is this bent about a legal and lawful use of wiretapping when she supported warrantless wiretapping on all of us.
In other news, DiFi appears to have her own issues:
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., offered to help the chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. secure federal funds last year, just days before the agency awarded a contract to Feinstein’s husband’s firm in the housing foreclosure crisis.
Under FDIC Chairwoman Sheila Bair, the contract went to CB Richard Ellis Group, the biggest commercial real estate services company in the world. The Washington Times first reported details of the deal Tuesday.
Well played.
schrodinger's cat
But the most important question on our minds still remains unanswered, does Tunch have a new friend?
Polish the Guillotines
Feinstein is useless. She bit hook, line and sinker on the Iraq war. I emailed her office at the time urging her not to rush into Iraq. Her “response” was essentially the entire transcript of Colin Powell’s Star-Spangled Wild West WMD Rodeo(tm) at the UN.
She’s been a poster-child for Democratic FAIL for years. Where do I sign up for comeuppance?
Mr. Stuck
Another sacrificial lamb upon the alter of Irony ( Or, have we reached Peak Neocon yet?)
demkat620
Well now, everybody who was screaming about Pelosi passing over Harmon for intel chair, how you like Jane now?
I have never liked either of them. Harmon and Feinstein are too hawkish for my taste. And Feinstein I have never understood. She is the very definition of being more conservative than her constituents.
Dreggas
Maybe we’ll finally be able to get rid of these two. They’re nothing but a couple of festering boils on the ass of California.
Ninerdave
DiFi can’t go away fast enough for me.
Ninerdave
Once you get out of the main urban areas, California is quite conservative.
Polish the Guillotines
In fairness, I’ll give one smidge of credit: She’s the one that raised the issue of the US Attorneys getting ram-rodded out of Justice.
Other than that, she’s been wrong on most of the important stuff.
Thing is, it’s not like she’s all that conservative. She fancies herself “ruling class”, and the rest of us are proles. Kind of a weird West Coast noblesse oblige.
Corner Stone
Why the fuck is it “Breaking News” that *President Obama indicates he’s still open to prosecution of torture-policy drafters*?
He doesn’t get a say in the matter.
demkat620
@Ninerdave: I know but she just drives me crazy. I just don’t see her have any issue she gets really exorcised about. Just always seems to be muddling along looking for the middle on everything.
Bill Teefy
@Ninerdave: Well there is that 33.34% of voting conservatives who would still vote for Pombo…
Actually Diane’s successs has been mostly Republican fail. They really don’t put up much of a fight. Now whether that is because they are comfortable with her I cannot say.
Nationally, she like every Californian that isn’t plus ultra, has some righty hate but overall I think the corporate wing of the Republican Party likes her where she is.
sgwhiteinfla
What was Harman’s contradiction?
John O
The whole system is just so incredibly broken and plutocratic (redundant?) I’m glad I’m well into middle-age.
George Bush: At least he made you happy you’re going to die soon!
BR
I hope we’re wise enough as a state to elect Debra Bowen as Governor rather than someone like DiFi.
Bill H
DiFi is the archtype and defining example of the elite ruling class. She is self- and class-serving and corrupt to the core.
John O
I will say that there is a distinct possibility of a schadenfreudegams coming, what with the torture stuff, the banking nightmare, the horrible ecomony, etc.
I don’t know if the country is smart enough to take advantage of it; we may be too far gone, but so far no matter what the GOP is throwing at Obama ain’t stickin’.
The wild card in the deck is another terrorist attack, which throws all the cards up in the air once again.
I’ve been arguing for years that BOTH parties should be preparing us for another one, not just out of political expediency but because you can’t stop a determined soul or small group of them in a free society.
Instead, they both use it as a political football, to pounce on the opposition not if, but when it happens.
Timing is everything, as they say.
Polish the Guillotines
@demkat620:
The only thing she really got fired up about (if I may use that expression) was her assault weapons ban. With which I sympathize.
Other than that, I think you’re spot on.
John Cole
@sgwhiteinfla: “We don’t know if there was a phone call.”
then
“No. I can’t recall with any specificity a conversation I may have had four years ago.”
then
“Well, let’s find out. I mean, the person I was talking to was an American citizen.”
She doesn’t know if there was a phone call and can’t recall with any specificity but she knows it was an American.
An instant classic.
henqiguai
@Corner Stone: #9
…you have got to stop watching CNN. It’s Breaking News ! to
those over-caffeinated nitwitsthem if the sun comes up in the morning.Though, admittedly, I too still sometimes watch CNN, for lack of any real alternatives…
kay
@Corner Stone:
Why the fuck is it “Breaking News” that President Obama indicates he’s still open to prosecution of torture-policy drafters?
He doesn’t get a say in the matter.
Because they’re all insane.
He’s “open” to it. That’s generous of him. Any suspected illegality inquiry he’s opposed to?
I don’t know what they’re talking about. I think the intent is to make every prosecution completely and inherently political. That way (I guess) a Democratic attorney general can only prosecute Democrats, and vice-versa, and all of them go scot-free, forever.
I keep wondering if this legal doctrine applies to states, too. Does the governor give the “go ahead” to the state AG? Insanity.
Mnemosyne
I hope the Feinstein story isn’t true only because Sheila Bair is doing a pretty good job at the FDIC, and Bair will be out on her ass if it is true. She’s pissed off a lot of Republicans, and they would be more than happy to see her go. That’s probably why the story first appeared in the Washington Times.
TenguPhule
Di in a fire has never been so appropriate.
JK
I’ve reached the point of total exhaustion, exasperation, and disgust with all of this goddamn nonsense and bullshit from these worthless, feathernesting politicians on top of the super sized steaming piles of excrement emanating daily from Fox News Channel and talk radio.
Unfortunately, John Lennon’s lyrics ring just as true today as they did way back in 1971.
I’m sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
I’ve had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope
I’m sick to death of seeing things
From tight-lipped, condescending, mama’s little chauvinists
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth now
I’ve had enough of watching scenes
Of schizophrenic, egocentric, paranoiac, prima-donnas
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth
Dulcie
@John Cole: It was even better live. She was so defensive, and so incoherent, she kept speaking over Daniel Schorr. He coud barely get a word in edgewise, and every time he did, she got even MORE defensive. It’s been quite a while since i’ve heard anyone in such high dudgeon.
The capper for me was when she started talking about “the American People” being wiretapped. Now she’s concerned? Hmpf!
Comrade Darkness
Yes, clean house. Man do we need it.
@kay: Can’t the president, absent an investigation by the AG, appoint a commission to “look into a matter”? Out of which recommendations for prosecution may flow?
mclaren
Did anyone think that massive surveillance was ever anything but an excuse for blackmail? Does anyone actually believe that all this “anti-terrorist” buildup is anything but a massive effort to crush domestic dissent?
John O
People are going to be upset when they find out THEY were wiretapped, especially if they’re big-shot Congresscritters!
Ah, yes. The sweet smell of hypocrisy. Smells like freedom.
But we’re not there yet.
boomshanka
@Polish the Guillotines:
DiFi took the lead on the US Attorneys issue at a time when she was under suspicion for improperly help direct military spending to her husband’s company, and I believe she got kicked off a committee for that (but could be wrong).
You can be sure to see her take the lead on another issue important to liberals to try and deflect attention away from her corruption.
Jay B.
Fuck it. I hope Harman stays on long enough to be exposed, work tirelessly to overturn the shit she shamefully supported for so long and then get ousted in a Democratic primary by someone who’ll use her disgraceful record against her. They can’t arrest her enough times, the scum-sucking hypocrite.
And I hope DiFi gets indicted for something, she resigns in disgrace and is forced to work in a soup kitchen for the rest of her miserable fucking life.
Dennis-SGMM
@Dulcie:
I heard it live as well. She bounced back and forth between defensive and disparaging. That’s the problem with Republican-lite: they just can’t lie like a real Republican.
John O
Not me, mclaren. I have some strong libertarian tendencies, which are summarized by my unified, I believe proven theory of Power: It always seeks to acquire more.
Seems to me our Founders got this, too.
Party has nothing to do with it. And watching the dregs of the GOP complain about it after granting so much to their own personal POTUS, it’s a bit fun to watch.
sgwhiteinfla
John Cole
I still honestly don’t see the contradiction. Later on what she said was that if she was talking to someone about the AIPAC conversation then it had to be an American. Maybe I am just too naive or something but to me it read at least like she was going by the CQ article and not going by her memory. I also think she was trying to push the case that if there was a wiretap that it was illegal because she was talking to an American. She repeatedly said she didn’t know if there was a call but that means that there actually could have been a call and she wasn’t ruling it out. She never said there wasn’t a call. And ultimately she said she wanted any transcript of that call released. In my mind I think its reasonable to now wait and see if the transcript exists. I know I am in the minority on this one but I didn’t really buy the CQ story because it relied so heavily on anonymous sources no longer serving in the administration.
Comrade Darkness
because she was talking to an American
Americans can be spies. So, it matters little in this context whether the person is or is not American. “Spy” is the key label.
sgwhiteinfla
Comrade Darkness
True that Americans can be spies but what she was talking about was the jurisdiction for the wiretap and whether or not there was a warrant.
Corner Stone
@henqiguai: It was MSNBC.
Joel
Harman sounds like a guilty person.
MikeJ
“Agents of foreign powers” in FISA speak. § 1801, (b) 1 specifically excludes “US persons” (which would exclude not only US Citizens but anyone actually in the US, since they are subject to US law), but (b) 2 does not.
Dulcie
@Joel: I thought so too, Joel
Jenkins
sgwhiteinfla,
“Maybe I am just too naive or something but to me it read at least like she was going by the CQ article and not going by her memory.”
It may have read like that, but it sure didn’t SOUND like that. Did you listen to it or just read the transcript?
JK
I’d love to see both Harman and Feinstein replaced by honest, law-abiding Democrats, but the power of incumbancy gives them a tremendous advantage over any challengers, so I won’t hold my breath.
Polish the Guillotines
@boomshanka:
Did not know that. Well, I can’t say it ruins my image of her.
demkat620
Anybody else watching Phillip Zelikow on Rachel? I don’t know much about Zelikow. Is it possible he is telling the truth about Bushies destroying his written objections? Or is this what I think is the beginning of the massive CYA we are about to see from all the Bush Clowns?
sgwhiteinfla
Jenkins
I read it, didn’t listen.
John O
JK, go up another level. Those who write laws are seldom in violation of them unless they’re truly stupid or drunk with power, which I doubt applies in either case here.
No, they just know how to tiptoe up to the legal line, and really, why wouldn’t they?
linda
more zelikow:
http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/04/21/the_olc_torture_memos_thoughts_from_a_dissenter
Jenkins
@sgwhiteinfla:
You should give it a listen. She definitely sounds defensive and seems to backpedal after the “I talked to an American” part.
NutellaonToast
Sweet, the Democrats are already on their way to giving the Pigs the power back through a series of embarrassing scandals that ruins the parties images.
I’m beginning to think that the teabagger party is going to win the next election by default.
r€nato
@Jenkins:
seconded. Heard the NPR interview. Harman definitely sounded very defensive and nervous, like somebody with something to hide. I don’t buy for a moment her “let’s see what the tapes say” party line.
I guess I give her grudging credit for being smarter than a corrupt Republican, who typically lies without any regard for the existence of contradictory audio and video recordings.
I’m also not pleased that the Democrats are now coming up with their own sleazy scandals now that they are in power, but then again a) they are nothing like the GOP shenanigans of the last several years, and b) so far these scandals seem to be biting the behinds of Democrats who were too willing to work with the GOP. I’ll be happy to see Harman and DiFi take a hike, let’s hope California replaces them with good Democrats.
r€nato
@NutellaonToast:
it ain’t that bad.
JK
@NutellaonToast: Bingo.
Hannity, Limbaugh, O’Reilly and Beck may drown in their own spittle with their longwinded denunciations of Harman and Feinstein.
gil mann
Sex scandals involving consenting adults, corruption that stems from personal interest rather than some twisted ideology—God, I love Democrats.
Ed Marshall
When it comes to DiFi and Harman, if they were up in 2010,I’d see Republicans take the seat, given my druthers. They can’t be primaried (if they can that’s great), just let the opposition take them down. They are dinosaurs, they don’t represent their districts. I’d let the ill winds take them down.
HitlerWorshippingPuppyKicker
@Polish the Guillotines:
Ditto. She is not on my favorites list. She is one of the good old boys but without the equipment.
Joshua Norton
Funny, but you just described how Jane campaigned to be governor of California. She was leading in the polls until just before the primary election. Then everyone decided she was just a little too inscrutable for our own good. Helloooo Governor Grey Davis. And we all know how that ended.
Mnemosyne
@NutellaonToast:
You know how much of a chance there is that a Republican would beat either Harman or Feinstein in a general election?
Absolutely zero. Harman’s in one of the most Democratic districts in all of California — and that’s saying something in Los Angeles — and there’s no way in hell that California Republicans will be able to get their shit together to the point that they could beat DiFi.
wilfred
Juan Cole nailed the need for getting to the bottom of this:
[This] Country first.
angulimala
She clearly appears to be attempting to avoid making any specific denials until she knows all of the evidence against her.
kay
@Comrade Darkness:
Sure. I guess Obama can appoint a commission. In my opinion, the commission idea is the worst of both worlds. It’s inherently political, and it will just bury the whole idea of why we don’t torture behind paper and speeches.
I’d like Holder to investigate, and bring charges, or drop it. I think it’s his call.
Obama said something that got my attention, though. He said “four corners” (and he made the obligatory square in the air with his hands). I think you have to make square in air when you say “four corners”. It’s required. Anyway.
I read the memos, and in the Bybee memo, the CIA went beyond the four corners of the memo.
Bybee premised his analysis on the CIA assertion that they would not use these techniques repeatedly on one person because they lose effectiveness with each successive application. It’s on the first page of the Bybee memo. They used them hundreds of times. That’s beyond the Bybee opinion’s four corners, and it opens up the idea of the CIA operatives facing prosecution. In my half-assed opinion, anyway, reading the thing, and then hearing “four corners”.
I think Obama should stop taking questions on whether or not there will be prosecutions. The President doesn’t prosecute, and it’s frankly scary to contemplate a world where any President makes that call.
I feel like he’s way out of line opining on it. I can’t find the part of the Constitution that says the President determines whether or not to bring criminal charges. Is it over by the pardon power, maybe? Where did he gets this prosecution/no prosecution power? Does it apply to him too?
If President Bush were making these statements, I would be berserk.
Blue Raven
Feinstein’s been a raging liar and hypocrite for decades. We were calling her “that bitch” when she was mayor of San Francisco. A position she only got because Dan White went over the edge.
Michael D.
I, too, heard the interview, and I came away from it convinced that Harman knows she had the conversation, remembers it, and knows there probably is no recording or transcript. Non-denial denial. My teeth were grinding in frustration listening to her continuously step around his questions.
Siegel: So, did the conversations take place?
Harman: Well, we don’t know, do we?
Ahmm, you either know you had the conversation or you know you did not.
I mean, I believe in the presumption of innocence, but at least TRY to come off looking that way!
Idiot.
Michael D.
@sgwhiteinfla:
Come on. When you are asked to intervene in a case about espionage, you remember it.