This is not surprising. And we can expect the media to support these efforts to make sure no one is punished:
Former Bush administration officials are launching a behind-the-scenes lobbying campaign to urge Justice Department leaders to soften an ethics report criticizing lawyers who blessed harsh detainee interrogation tactics, according to two sources familiar with the efforts.
In recent days, attorneys for the subjects of the ethics probe have encouraged senior Bush administration appointees to write and phone Justice Department officials, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the process is not complete.
A draft report of more than 200 pages, prepared in January before Bush’s departure, recommends disciplinary action by state bar associations, rather than criminal prosecution, against two former department attorneys in the Office of Legal Counsel who might have committed misconduct in preparing and signing the so-called torture memos. State bar associations have the power to suspend a lawyer’s license to practice or impose other penalties.
If we’re lucky, they’ll at least receive an enhanced slap on the wrist.
r€nato
How about some waterboarding? I hear it’s like going for a swim.
Then they could go spend a spell at Gitmo. I understand they serve lemon chicken and there’s plenty of cool ocean breezes. Most people would kill for a free stay at a Caribbean resort.
gwangung
During hurricane season?
Zifnab
Am I the only one reading “lobbying” and “Justice Department” in the same sentence and feeling the need to vomit? After half a dozen “lobbying reform” bills burrowed through Congress, how did they manage to miss a loophole like this?
I’m not at all opposed to “lobbying” in the abstract. The idea that anyone – individual or business representative – should be allowed to talk to their Congressfolk and other elected officials makes a great deal of sense.
But lobbying DoJ staff? Are you fucking kidding me? How is this not illegal on its face?
blahblahblah
Perhaps we could all just toss a few coins into a collection pot for airline tickets to The Hauge for those motherfuckers.
mt
Mukasey and crew already kicked the report back once. Ignore them. Better yet, devote a section on why they’re allergic to justice.
The Cat Who Would Be Tunch
@Zifnab:
Simple. The officials are not “lobbying”. They are merely having casual phone conversations with the DoJ that may include the topics of memos, interrogation techniques, and potential future legal actions that the DoJ is contemplating.
These officials will not “lobby” the DoJ. Because that would be unethical.
Just like “America does not torture.” Seriously, what’s your problem?
The Other Steve
I seem to recall Bill Clinton having his law license suspended for that Lewinsky thing.
Seems to me that if you write a memo saying torture is illegal, despite all the laws saying otherwise… isn’t that worse than lying to a grand jury?
Steve V
As a lawyer who used to work in a big firm that had a white collar criminal practice (thus I know enough to have an idea, but I don’t know enough to say this for sure), it’s my understanding that at least in the typical criminal investigation, the targets of investigation are negotiating over the terms of the investigation from beginning to end. Some investigations can go on for years, so you’re talking about a lot of lawyering that happens before anything becomes public. Every major law firm employs former US Attorneys who work their connections and know the processes intimately in the service of their wealthy white-collar clients. I have no idea what the procedural mechanism is in these pre-filing criminal investigations because I’m not a criminal lawyer myself, but I imagine that there’s ample room for negotiation or “lobbying” over the final text of a report, or whatever other document is finally issued at the conclusion of an investigation.
This may not have any relevance to this particular internal DOJ investigation, but it explains why I’m not surprised that Bybee, Yoo et al. (not to mention their counsel), who know half the people at DOJ, are able to do this.
DanSmoot'sGhost
Must be time to take a roll call of the little band of pitchfork wavers today?
Maybe if you all waved them in unison? At least it would look sort of entertaining then.
CBS/NYT poll of two weeks ago. Which also said:
Waterboarding justified %: 46 yes 37 no
Waterboard torture %: 71 yes 26 no
Americans demanded and got the ends justify means government they wanted. They wanted security, and they elected people who would do anything to give them security.
Maybe you should put the whole country in jail?
Patriot
Our government.
The most crooked fucking government around.
Who thought it would get any better after we voted the last asshole out of the White House?
Anyone?
Anyone?
cleek
can we waterboard AIG ?
srv
Legal precedence for whatever the next republican wants to do.
God Bless our Banana Republic and the people who torture for her.
r€nato
@DanSmoot’sGhost:
fortunately, the ‘rule of law’ – that quaint concept which apparently only applies to presidential blow jobs – is not subject to the whims of popular opinion polls.
r€nato
@The Other Steve:
not if you define torture as not-torture.
at least, that’s what BushCo was thinking.
funluvn
Does an enhanced wrist slap include jail time? ‘Cause if not, even using the ReamMaster3000 at the same time just isn’t justice.
mt
<a href=”http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/06/us/politics/
Complete fail in linking to NY Times article: nytimes.com/2009/05/06/us/politics/
DanSmoot'sGhost
@r€nato:
“Rule of law” is a slogan.
The government threw out the law starting in 1948 when it invented the Cold War and set about trashing the Constitutional check on executive power, leading to the War Powers Act, and a populace that demanded and accepted whatetever the government had to do to provide “security.”
If you want better governments, you are going to have to elect them. Slogans are not going to stop the next Cheney administration from doing whatever it wants.
The people wanted the Unitary Executive, and they got it. Time for the people to take responsibility. The last government probably committed real war crimes, resulting in the deaths of thousands, and you guys want to impound their cars for parking violations. Very righteous.
Dennis-SGMM
@DanSmoot’sGhost:
Wasn’t there an informal poll done a few years ago that found that most of those polled disapproved of the Bill of Rights when it was presented as pending legislation? Shit like this makes me glad that I’m old.
GregB
It is interesting that the hang ’em high, law and order types suddenly get all soft and squishy and become advocates of mercy, compassion, letting bygones be bygones with crime once their ass is in the sling.
Soft on their crimes only.
-G
BooBooBear
@GregB
One is reminded of the great Rushbo’ and L’Affaire Oxycontin.
srv
Dom DeLuise dead. I didn’t know star wars was this old.
Scott
Is Lynddie England still in jail? How ’bout those Deep South tweakers who tortured that woman for weeks on end?
Mnemosyne
@DanSmoot’sGhost:
Wow, way to doctor those poll results. You forgot this interesting tidbit:
If I were polled today, I would also say that I don’t want a Congressional investigation because I want prosecutions in a court of law, not a bunch of Senators who can’t actually do anything grandstanding in front of the cameras. If criminal acts were committed, they should be tried in a court, not “investigated” in Congress.
ETA: forgot linky
r€nato
@DanSmoot’sGhost: Put yourself in Obama’s shoes. You’ve got an extraordinary economic crisis to deal with. You’re trying to follow through on your commitment and campaign promises to put the US on the road to a green energy economy, do something about global warming and reform health care, fully 1/6th of our GDP.
And on top of that, you’re asking him to pick a major fight with a group of folks who have plenty of resources for the fight, who have shown themselves to be absolutely ruthless and are willing to pursue a scorched earth legal and political strategy if necessary. Oh, and they have a major political party and several mass media outlets including a cable TV news channel with a sizable audience at their disposal.
And by the way, if any investigation and/or prosecution is handled poorly, the whole thing backfires in several ways and on top of that his entire agenda could be derailed. Bye bye 2nd term, bye bye Democratic Congress. A well-meaning investigation or prosecution of torture which ends up with little to show or acquittals could single-handedly revitalize the dying GOP.
I’m not at all saying that torture investigations and prosecutions should be disposed of for the sake of political expediency; in fact, it’s inevitable that there will be accountability of some sort. What sort of accountability we get is up to us citizens, to pressure the Obama administration to do the right thing.
What I am saying is that investigating and prosecuting the torture policies of the previous administration is a minefield. A minefield with nuclear land mines. It’s not as simple as, ‘send out the agents to pick up the subjects and try them!’
Comrade Kevin
@Mnemosyne: He’s just latched onto something he’ll use for a while here to be an asshole.
bayville
Can someone pen a sternly worded-letter condemning this action? Maybe write it in Red Ink to symbolize how angry we are?
That should learn ’em.
bago
Time to gain more levels in Fallout 3.
JWW
DougJ,
And when your mother asked you for an answer for the third time! She would say “wait til your father gets home”.
Dads hand or belt would get the truth… Maybe we should just spank them.
Give it up, if you want to report dirt, look under your feet.
Tsulagi
That’s pretty good, even the Bush admin acknowledged they were ethically deficient and could warrant criminal prosecution.
Don’t get too wild there. A little too bold. Better to play it safe. A chant of Dem action maxims “New way forward–Keep bipartisanship spirit—Keep your powder dry—Pick your battles, but not this one” and all those other well-worn favorites is the proper course to show you’re bringing it. If sung in soft, melodic tones, maybe the Pubs won’t get too mad and call them too many names. That is what you need to avoid at all costs. Country first.
brian griffin
different take at sullivan’s place:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/the-opr-report-gets-closer.html#more
he seems to be of the opinion that the disbarment opens things up to defining this as war crimes. that this is one more step among many.
keep the long view. there’s no statute of limitations here, and it has to be a long slow process. move too fast and it will blow up.
TenguPhule
Get out from under my toenails, JWW.
r€nato
@brian griffin:
thank you, brian. You get it.
The rest of you moonbats… have patience. Re-read what I wrote. Do this wrong, and it all blows up in Obama’s face, and there goes our hopes of a green economy, universal health care, an economy that doesn’t rely on investment bubbles every 10 to 20 years, and the new Democratic majority.
Not to mention, say goodbye to any hope of ever again investigating and/or holding accountable any other Americans who enable, endorse or practice torture. Instead, a future Republican administration will know it can practice it with virtual impunity.
douglasfactors
Supposing Bybee were disbarred, would Congress bother to impeach him?
JWW
Ten Jew Fool,
You never learn a thing. I could live off your toe nails..
Maybe you should go buy all the “Time Out Babies”, they seem to have no problems at all.
Mnemosyne
@douglasfactors:
Would they have to? I don’t know if a judge who’s been disbarred has to leave the bench automatically. You’d think so, but technically you don’t even have to be a lawyer to be a judge, so maybe you can be disbarred and still be a judge.
r€nato
in case you folks didn’t hear this on All Things Considered yesterday, this is one of the most jaw-dropping interviews I’ve heard on NPR in a long, long, long, long time:
Military Psychologist Says Harsh Interrogation Tactics Justified
joe from Lowell
I’m not sure writing legal memos, even ones as dishonest and deliberately misleading about the law as these, is actually a crime.
What should they be charged with?
Disbarment is probably the right course to take with these guys.
TenguPhule
I favor disarming them.
Literally.
If it works on thieves….
TenguPhule
Crimes against humanity.
ppcli
A slap on the wrist is too harsh. Let’s show mercy and just waterboard ’em 183 times each. I mean, it’s just a fraternity prank, right?
JWW
TenguPhule,
You are the type who buys a fresh loaf of warm bread in the morning and expects it to be warm when you get home in the afternoon. Then you tell all your friends “the bread from that bakery sucks”.
If there ever comes a time in your life that you seek vengeance for crimes commited against you or your family, I hope it does not come.
Then ask yourself, why?
HitlerWorshippingPuppyKicker
@Dennis-SGMM:
People are missing the point of the polls. It’s not about the polls, it’s about the fact that the people elected the Cheney government because that’s what they wanted.
Not once, but twice, and the second time, after it was widely known that these guys had entered the country into a useless war on bad information.
And the Cheney government was just the last in a long string of war machine governments elected by the same people, who demanded protection and did not care much what the government did to deliver it to them.
Going after flunkies for these torture memos is morally lazy and completely worthless as a deterrent.
Rule of law? If that’s really what matters here, then Richard Nixon was right nearly 40 years ago when he said “We are winning the war on drugs.”
The straight line to good government is through the voting booth. If the people want their rightful power back, that’s where they will have to go to get it.
As for the “crime against humanity” argument, that is just an insult to intelligence. If this waterboarding is a crime against humanity, then what is the useless killing of tens of thousands of people? And where are the calls for prosecutions for that? It was the war that was the crime.
tc125231
“What did we do, really? We sent a few people to camp. You send your kids to camp, don’t you?
r€nato
@JWW:
I thought we had a ‘justice’ system, not a ‘vengeance’ system…
cleek
it really was. that guy is one sick motherfucker.
the way he was talking about how fascinating it was to watch the SERE people being tortured… i kept thinking “this lunatic sounds like Dr. Mengele!”
geg6
Ummm, I think perhaps we are all getting a little bent over this too soon. The Office of Professional Responsibility, I’m pretty sure, isn’t in the business of criminal prosecutions. It’s job is to assess the work done by the lawyers for adherence to professional standards and ethics. Thus, a recommendation to disbarr is pretty much the death penalty in their narrow area of jurisdiction. This report will simply be another piece of evidence that the DoJ prosecutors and Eric Holder will take into account in their decisions on whether to prosecute anyone and, if so, whom to prosecute. And this could show evidence of conspiracy to commit war crimes, especially if the communications timeline between the WH, CIA, and DoJ show they were tailoring the memos to achieve a predetermined outcome desired by the WH. I await the report’s release with bated breath and a firm conviction that such a conspiracy will be evident to even a legal amateur like me.
TenguPhule
Don’t worry, JWW, when the time comes, I will shoot you first.
Lex
@geg6:
This is correct; the Justice Department’s Office of the Inspector General, OTOH, can recommend criminal prosecution.
And perhaps it should. But I think Holder should just appoint a special prosecutor and cut out the middleman.