I keep getting forwarded this whinging letter from a Hedge fund manager:
Unafraid In Greenwich Connecticut
Clifford S. Asness
Managing and Founding Principal
AQR Capital Management, LLCThe President has just harshly castigated hedge fund managers for being unwilling to take his administration’s bid for their Chrysler bonds. He called them “speculators” who were “refusing to sacrifice like everyone else” and who wanted “to hold out for the prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout.”
***This is America. We have a free enterprise system that has worked spectacularly for us for two hundred plus years. When it fails it fixes itself. Most importantly, it is not an owned lackey of the oval office to be scolded for disobedience by the President.
I haven’t been talking about this much because I’m not up on the ins and outs of bankruptcy laws, but I’m honestly to the point now that if I were driving down the road, and had to swerve to avoid a skunk or a hedge fund manager, I’d choose the skunk. Every time. I’m sick of hearing the bleatings of their overpaid idiot lawyers being repeated as Capital “T” truth when all they are doing is trying to work the refs in public, and I’m sick of reading their whining opinions about how unfair the world is.
Yes, this is America. And we just spent who knows how many trillions of dollars (God knows, because the Fed won’t tell us) propping up the economy because of what you jackasses did with our free enterprise system. I’m sorry that your pursuit for maximum profit didn’t let you force Chrysler into complete and total liquidation, screwing hundreds of thousands of people out of their pension and their health care, ending hundreds of thousands of jobs in the supply chain and dealerships, and dealing our economy another crushing blow that we just can’t tolerate just so you selfish and arrogant pricks could get more than 30 cents on the dollar on YOUR BAD BET.
Seriously. Here is a website (NSFW if you have sound) for you, for Jake DeSantis, and for the rest of you people. I am genuinely sick of your nonsense. If one of you even whispers “fiduciary duty” near me, so help me Allah I will punch you in the damned neck.
asiangrrlMN
Oh, John. This post was a thing of beauty. I am for saving the skunk every time as well. At least he only sprays smelly shit to defend himself.
P.S. If we truly had a free market, these guys would all be out on their asses.
P.P.S. Libertina, back off! He’s mine.
Ugh
Shrill.
Libertina
John Cole, I think I love you.
Just Some Fuckhead
Ain’t it great being a commie?
Michael
The stupid fucks didn’t understand what “liquidation value” meant before they started the game of chicken.
I bet they think that they come in ahead of purchase money liens, too.
Robertdsc-iphone
Bullseye.
Patriot
As the revered Dick Cheney would say, “Clifford, go **** yourself.”
Svensker
Oooh, John, you are so cute when you’re angry.
Right, too.
El Cid
I must have missed that part. When did that ever happen?
Stefan
This is America.
Agreed.
We have a free enterprise system that has worked spectacularly for us for two hundred plus years.
Offer not valid 2008-2009.
When it fails it fixes itself.
If by “fixes itself” you mean sucks up trillions of dollars of hard-working taxpayer money, then yes.
blondie
Bravo! Bravo!
What the hell do we have to do to get our idiot congressmen to understand that it doesn’t matter how much money they’ve taken, whether campaign contributions or something more unsavory, the vast majority of American citizens are angry and disgusted at the way the “financial services industry” has gamed this system? It’s time for an overhaul.
Steve V
Heh, love the amishrakefight. Hasn’t that been around for literally over 10 years?
someguy
I think it’d probably save some time and a lot of aggravation if we just took all the rich people aside, and took their money now. This piecemeal approach to punishing these fuckers is wearing me out.
Short Bus Bully
YES IT IS YOU FUCKWAD.
It was an “owned lackey” the second you guys crashed the car and came running to your daddy for more money to fix it. The minute you come running to a higher power to bail you out is the very same moment your independent run as Masters of the Universe ends.
So take your bailout money, keep your overpaid jobs and thank your lucky fucking stars that you didn’t have to come running to me for bailout money you selfish pricks.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
I’d choose the skunk every time, no matter what. Have you ever hit a skunk, or driven past a fresh kill? They stink your car up to high Heaven.
PeakVT
We have a free enterprise system that has worked spectacularly for us
Well, no. We have a mixed-market system that has worked spectacularly for some of us for 220 years, but has worked well for most of us for only the last 60 years. And it still doesn’t work well for far too many people.
They say patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, but I think there are a lot of worthless sh*ts are hiding out in free-market dogma.
TenguPhule
Improved.
If I see one more story in the NYT about poor little rich people struggling to keep spending like wastrels in this economic downturn…so help me….
Chi-city
Nice post John. Could not have said it better.
mantis
Anyone who manages to work ACORN(!!1!) into a screed about hedge funds is obviously a certified wingnut. Maximum Asness achieved.
dmsilev
As soon as his industry accepted the sweet sweet milk of taxpayer-funded bailout funds, he lost all rights to whine about the purity of the Free Enterprise System.
And I believe that there’s a standing invitation for all such “no government can tell *me* what to do” types to go move to Somalia to learn first-hand the truth of Hobbes’ description of life without government (“solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”).
-dms
Zifnab
Great Depression whosamawhatnow?
Savings and Loan Crisis-a-how?
What’s an End Ron? What’s a World Com? What’s a Pets.com?
Yeah the unlimited free enterprise system has “worked” in the sense that a Pinto “drives good”, which is to say it does until it explodes on you.
I’m really tired of people demanding we take the brakes off, whining about the speed limit, and then blaming everyone in the passenger seats when they total the car. I know we’ve been living in an “I’ve got mine, Jack!” world for the last three decades, but at a certain point the (former) millionaires need to recognize that they do not, in fact, have theirs anymore. They lost it when they fucked up. And the government didn’t take it away. The free market did. And they’re not getting it back.
Snark Based Reality
So John now values the life of a filthy animal above the life of a human being and the inalienable right of a white man to peruse wealth and happiness in our free capitalist society.
What a DFH.
Elie
Well said, well said John
We are having a cultural revolution that is profound and will impact our social and psychological make up for some time to come. The ground is shifting in ways we can’t fully predict. Exciting times — challenging times…
Maude
Mr. Unafraid is so offended that a black man had the nerve to outwit the poor hedge fund managers.
Hit a hedge fund manager and it’ll stink a lot worse than a skunk.
Tom Hilton
Hell yeah. Given the choice between hitting something that’ll make my car stink literally and something that’ll make it stink figuratively, I’ll take figuratively every time.
alhutch
Obama was right to call many of these hedge fund managers ‘speculators’. It seems that many of them scooped up these bonds (at far less than face value) after things were already headed down the drain for Chrysler.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a109vAXclorI&refer=us
Surprise, that didn’t work out for you. Too bad, thanks for playing “Capitalism 2009”, hope to see you again soon.
gypsy howell
yes, in HedgeFundWorld, it’s the other way around.
Rosali
Serious question- Has anyone heard Biden making any statements regarding the recent credit card reforms?
...now I try to be amused
Every one of these tone-deaf paper pushers with an overgrown sense of entitlement should be invited to repeat what they said — to a Congressional committee, under oath.
JayDenver
Yeah except for that part of the free enterprise system in the southern tier of states that lasted 100+ years or so, speaking of “owned lackeys.” Jeez, it must take real effort to be this ignorant of history.
Genine
I thought you were at that point months ago?
New and Improved John Cole- now with extra grumpy bits!
TenguPhule
Please note that at no point in the letter is this actually denied.
asiangrrlMN
@TenguPhule: Yes, this (the NYT “Poor rich people” thing). Ditto on NPR. I am soooo sorry you can’t go to your second house or not take the trip around the world you had planned.
Bite me.
TenguPhule
Weak, John.
Get back to us when you’re ready to reverse back over and run over them again just to be sure.
JGabriel
dmsilev:
I agree with dmsilev: if these guys want to be all hard-ass about capitalism, let’em move to Somalia and try to become pirates. It would be far more honest than their current careers.
.
Alan
Would you respond better if it were a 14 year old kid telling you how unfettered markets have worked so well? Perhaps you need to understand the CRA better.
Heh.
scav
Skunks forever!
Ian
Jimmy McNulty: I got to ask you. If every time Snotboogie would grab the money and run away, why’d you even let him in the game?
Witness: What?
McNulty: If Snotboogie always stole the money, why’d you let him play?
Witness: You got to, this is America, man.
jrg
This is America, therefore people who trade beans for a living should be entitled to special bankruptcy protections and government bailouts.
After all, unless you made seven figures last year screwing educators, grandmas, firemen, and people that actually produce things that have value, you’re a lazy bum looking for a handout.
Now where’s my free money for these worthless bonds I bought, bitches?
Wile E. Quixote
@John Cole
Hell, if I were driving down the road and had to swerve to avoid a skunk or a hedge fund manager I’d aim the car at the hedge fund manager and step on the gas. In fact I’d do that even if there weren’t a skunk there. Then I’d back up over him and run him over again a few more times just to make sure that he was down and out, because there’s nothing more dangerous than a wounded hedge fund manager.
John PM
What is it with you and punching people in the neck? Is that more effective than punching people in the face or the private parts?
The Cat Who Would Be Tunch
Hmmm, shouldn’t that read:
For completeness’ sake, since you’re beginning to go all A-rab on us.
Thankovsky
Yeah, that’s the real crux of the issue: you can’t really rant and rail about socialism if you’re enjoying a much greater government safety net than the rest of the “free” market.
Thankfully, this argument seems to be ringing more and more hollow with most Americans. Not all of them realize exactly where the hypocrisy lies in this line of reasoning, but at the very least, most of them realize that people like this hedge fund manager are in no place to complain.
gwangung
@John PM:
Works equally well on both sexes and easier on the hands…
scav
You know, if it weren’t for all you guys speeding up to hit them, I was about to innovate and suggest using Hedge Fund Managers as Traffic Calming Devices. That way we could just keep running over them and not have to resort to keeping a breeding population handy.
The Tim Channel
No crime against high ranking people is allowed anymore. We’ve apparently decided that even fake war, torture and conspiracy are not going to be prosecuted above non-com level.
I’m guessing it’ll free up a lot of investigative time to chase after dangerous pot smokers.
Enjoy.
dmsilev
@John PM:
In a past life, John was Spocky Balboa.
-dms
Bill Arnold
jrg: … trade beans for a living
A Google-original; very nice!
Brachiator
Wait a minute. Isn’t that the Terminator?
Michael
Sounds like a good name for a song penned by the Daniels Nugent Greenwood Williams Quartet……
Anne Laurie
Word. If I were a faster stitcher, I’d embroider this on a sampler and send it to Obama to mount in the Oval Office.
And while I am deeply in favor of neck-punching WATBs like Asness (bruised tracheas inhibit whining), I also wish Blackberrys and iPhonies were sturdy enough to break their keyboard fingers when we slammed the devices shut on them…
kay
Plenty of people get lectured by the President from the bully pulpit.
That’s why we call it “the bully pulpit”. I seem to remember “trial lawyers” taking a real hit from Republican Presidents, in fact.
I don’t know why hedge fund managers would be immune.
.
Because they’re over-paid?
dmsilev
@Anne Laurie:
If all else fails, there are all sorts of orifices in the human body in which such devices could be forcefully and painfully inserted.
-dms
HeartlandLiberal
I have to admit, I love a good rant, especially when it is deserved and spot on.
I for one am just about to the limit where my head is going to explode if I have to hear another of these corrupt, gambling, selfish a**holes whine about the collapse of their house of cards, and how it means they will have to give up their airplanes, private schools for their kids, the extra vacations in Mexico, and their trophy wives will have to cut back to spending only 5,000 dollars a month on clothes and jewelry.
Meanwhile, I am not rich, but I am not poor, I am right where the upper middle class USED to be. And I have watched my retirement accumulation COLLAPSE in value by about 20% in the since last September. The only thing that saved me was I had 75% very conservatively invested, and only 25% in stocks. The conservative investment has lost almost nothing, the 25% has deflated like a ballo0n pricked by a hedge fund manager (yes, choice of words intentional).
I have already decided to work until early 2011 to retire, although I originally could have retired with full benefits, including deferred income, in early 2010. Economy is unstable, and my wife and I have been spoiled by having access to good insurance and health care, what can I say?
But my real sorry is the tragedy facing the soon to be 10 or MORE percent of Americans out of work, without health insurance, and basically screwed. This is just wrong, on so many levels.
The Bush/Cheney years have turned out to be the climax moment of the orgy of war and corporate profiteering that Dwight David Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address. Too bad no one listened or gave a crap. These people have looted the American taxpayer, and almost destroyed the Constitution. My sympathy for them is beyond nil, just like John, I would love to smack them up side the head.
But I agree with John’s rant 101%.
TheFountainHead - 'Easily Led'
And this is why BJ will never, ever, leave my RSS feed…
Also, Amen.
kay
And, then, of course these are the same people who blamed the loss of Chrysler on greedy UAW members.
That was what, two months ago?
I’m still waiting for a whiny letter from the machinists.
4tehlulz
I would actually hit them both, as the skunk would cover up the stench of the hedge fund manager.
gbear
@scav:
the cartoon Non Sequitur was on top of that a few months back. One of his cartoons showed bankers being used as speed bumps and a pedestrian was commenting about how they weren’t slowing the traffic down at all.
Sorry but I don’t have time to do a search, but Non Sequitur in general has been deliciously brutal to bankers and wall street types.
r€nato
You guys gotta go to NPR.org later today when they post links to “Talk of the Nation” segments.
They had Michael Savage on and he had a total meltdown the moment a caller began to criticize him. Savage hung up shortly thereafter.
Classic radio.
scav
@gbear:
ah, well, so much for innovating myself a retirement. sigh.
Face
Quite OT, but the funniest thing in long time
(via GOS)
Xecky Gilchrist
@HeartlandLiberal: But I agree with John’s rant 101%.
Well said, HL, and I agree.
It seems like only yesterday it was the 80s and these Gordon Gekko bastards were being touted as heroes.
Well, it was pretty much just yesterday, except for the it being the 80s part. These guys are the very exemplars of Reaganism.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@John PM:
Because breaking someone’s thyroid cartilage is the easiest way to kill them with one blow. There’s that edge-of-the-hand uppercut under the nose, but that’s a lot trickier, and would probably hurt, too.
r€nato
if it’s so hard out here for a
pimphedge fund manager, I suggest they go galt.That would really show us.
The Moar You Know
@John PM: Punching a person in the neck can kill them in several different ways.
Thankovsky
@The Moar You Know:
I just plunked out the “The More You Know” jingle on my piano when you said that.
Jim
Several points fail to be made by the fucktards whining about the Chrysler situation:
1. The government is providing the debtor in possession financing for Chrysler – it can and should make whatever demands it wants to as a condition for providing that financing.
2. One of the biggest gripes is the percentage ownership given to the UAW. Not only are the unions making concessions, but it seems they are more likely to do everything they can to make Chrysler succeed as an ongoing concern if they have as high an ownership position as possible.
3. These whiny hedge funds did not put 100% of the face value of the bonds at risk. They bought those bonds at pennies on the dollar. So when they are yelling about getting a haircut to some extent it is complaining about not making as much of a profit as they envisioned.
asiangrrlMN
@r€nato:
Yeah, but it’s much harder for a
holaid-off American.Just Some Fuckhead
As slow as you’d have to be going to tell ’em apart, you could easily miss ’em both. (If ya wanted to..)
Thankovsky
@r€nato:
That’s the funny thing about this whole “going Galt” business; “going Galt” only works if you actually produce something of value.
kay
@Jim:
Good points. Notice they never mention the debtor in possession part of this scheme?
The crankiness is right beneath anything they write or do. I would tend to be sympathetic. They bet and lost. I hate to lose money. I’d be cranky. I would.
What I wouldn’t do is try to turn my anger at losing a lot of money into some Big Principle. They’re like the freaking teabag people. They don’t even know who or what they’re mad at.
Vlad the Inhaler
John –
It would help your case if you had any idea at all what you are talking about.
1) Can you name a hedge fund that was bailed out by the government? No. You can’t. You are thinking of commercial banks and investment banks. Try to have at least a basic understanding of what is going on before ranting.
2) You think hedge funds drove Chrysler into bankruptcy? Uh, no. Chrysler is a poorly run business with insane labor costs and non-competitive products. THAT is what killed Chrysler. If you’d like to offer some evidence of how hedge funds killed Chrysler, go ahead, but until then please stop making a fool of yourself.
3) While you are at it, please help us to understand why the secured creditors of a company who have invested more money into Chrysler than the UAW should be given far LESS ownership stake in a reorganization? You want to get angry? Get angry at the UAW. To the person who wondered where her whiny letter from the machinsts was – they were getting an outrageously good deal under Obama’s “offer,” why would they complain?
4) You may like to indulge in a bit of populist rage, but I doubt you’d be so fired up to overturn bankruptcy law and basic contract law if you really had a dog in the fight.
In short, get to know what you are talking about before bloviating.
Ruemara
I think I’d like to chat with said hedge fund manager to explain how the free market vs mixed market works along with a visit from the history fairy and the high tech, college educated worker who lost every thing peevish black woman fairy. Oh yeah, those all exist.
r€nato
This is what gets me about all the whining. People – especially conservatives – demand accountability for the tax money their government spends.
Except, apparently, when that tax money is given to Big Business. Then, it’s supposed to just be handed over with no questions asked and no accountability whatsoever.
“Just give us the fucking money and go away, asshole!”
yeah, that approach always works for me when I go asking clients for their business or go to the bank for a loan.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
I think it’s time for an old-fashioned sing-along. Scroll down for the lyrics.
Jon H
Read it again, while considering that this pampered self-deluding twat pays 15% tax on his millions in earnings from his hedge fund.
r€nato
What that asshole does not understand is that Barack Saddam Hussein Osama al-Qaeda is the guy standing between him and the torch-bearing mobs whose retirement funds and jobs have vanished, who would gladly put Mr. Asness up against the wall without a second thought.
Tom Hilton
Ian wins the thread. From now on, I’m using “Snotboogie” as a synonym for “hedge fund manager”.
pharniel
punching people properly in the neck during a fight knocks them the fuck out.
i can’t find the video, but if you find it or have seen it you’ll know what i mean.
there was a guy doing demonstrations for the LA police department on hand to hand combat when a pimp started to smack around his ‘independent contracters’ and the instructor called him on it.
well, pimp didn’t like that, jumps at the guy. one good neck strike later (i know what our art calls it, shuto, no idea what his does) and the guy is just staggering about like he just checked his 401k got hit by a semi. had to be escourted out by his ladies, but no doubt that if karate guy had wanted to mr. pimp would be a deadman.
so i’m a big fan of neck punching.
Professor Fate
One of the things that kills me about this is the weird assumption that the bankruptcy laws were handed down to us on stone tablets – they are of course a twisted combnation of judges decisions and enacted laws – a very human enterprise that like most laws gives great advantages to them what got.
scav
Vlad the Speed Bump
Napoleon
@r€nato:
Yahoo news at a story on it earlier today that he has been banned from Britain, along with a variety of neo-nazi’s, radical islamist, KKK types and the like, presumibly for hate speach.
jake 4 that 1
I can add nothing to this except to point out that the writer’s name is Asness.
That is all.
Jon H
Also, the ZeroHedge blogger is a fan of white supremacist Hal Turner.
CeriConversion
I wonder how well the “fiduciary responsibility” excuse would actually hold up if litigated at this point.
r€nato
@Napoleon:
yes, that was why they had Savage on. I knew it would be a hell of a show and he did not disappoint.
Savage could have made a very good case against this but he is such a rage-filled headcase that he actually made himself sound like he deserved the designation.
he kept ranting about the First Amendment and the NPR host never got around to asking him how he imagined the First Amendment applies to the UK.
Then later he was ranting about the UK bureaucrat who put him on this ‘no-entry’ list and abuses of freedom this same bureaucrat supposedly endorses – wiretapping, domestic surveillance, etc – every one of which was similar or identical to what Bush did in his time in office and for which I am certain Savage never uttered a peep of criticism.
Later they had on that Michael whats-his-name guy who runs Talkers magazine, a trade pub on the radio biz. He said Savage is the #3 radio host behind Limbaugh and O’Reilly, with a daily audience of 10 million.
Our work in re-civilizing the political discourse in America won’t be done until people like Savage are so unpopular among decent everyday people that the only way they can get an audience is by standing on a street corner with a sandwich board.
someguy
Shorter @ Vlad
Wahh! Mean gubmint took mah monies! I go Galt now! Waaaaah!
Typical winger wanker. The government gives you money – as it did to the financial services industry and Chrysler – it becomes the shot caller. Got it? Shoulda raised the objection when Goldman was standing there with its tin cup out. Too late now, bitch. How’s it taste?
Baldrick
Righteous.
Jim
@Vlad the Inhaler: Hey Vlad, the hedge funds are not the secured creditors who invested tons of money in Chrysler. They are vulture funds who bought secured debts for pennies on the dollar. They provided NOTHING of value to Chrysler – they are looking to make lots of money off of its carcass. I have no problem with them making a case that they are entitled to a larger share of the pie. I just don’t want them howling like they are being asked to suffer huge losses. It isn’t the case and like all vultures, sometimes you lose out to a larger animal that gets to decide who gets the remains. Maybe they will win in bankruptcy court, or maybe they will lose. Just spare me the whining.
r€nato
@Ruemara:
I think I’d like to chat with said hedge fund manager with a sledgehammer.
John Cole
@Vlad the Inhaler: By the points:
1.) I know exactly what I am talking about. These guys want to force Chrysler into liquidation so they can get full payment on their bets, and anything short of liquidation will be unsatisfactory to them. I am also right that if they get what they want, it will mean tens to hundreds of thousands of people will be out of pensions and health care, and god knows how many employees will lose their job. And that doesn’t take into account the suppliers, the dealerships, and all the people in those towns. Am I wrong about any of that? Show me where.
2.) I never said hedge funds drove Chrysler into bankruptcy. I’m quite aware of legacy costs. I’m also quite aware that the auto market is pretty horrid right now.
3.) I’m not sure what the hell that has anything to do with a whinging “I’m not afraid/I’m gonna go Galt” letter from a guy who has NO FUCKING STAKE whatsoever in the Chrysler affair, but feels the need to inject himself in the matter.
4.) There are actually quite a number of things I would like changed about bankruptcy laws, contract law, etc. Things are quite clearly not working right now.
I’m legitimately sick of the whining and bitching and moaning. Did these creditors make a bet or not? Is Naked Capitalism wrong:
These guys wanted liquidation because they felt they would not get enough back on their bet in bankruptcy. Am I wrong about that?
So you can call it fake populist rage, or dismiss me, but you know what? I’m siding with a couple hundred thousand people whose lives will get totally screwed if these vultures get their way with their bets, and you scoundrels and your rule of contract law can whine all you want.
Dennis-SGMM
@Vlad the Inhaler:
Gosh, according to the Washington Post here, Chrysler’s secured creditors were owed $6.9Bn. Chrysler owed the UAW a payment of over $10Bn and future payments over time to the UAW. You might want to learn what you’re talking about. That would likely interfere with being a sockpuppet for a class of people who wouldn’t deign to piss on you even if you were on fire but life is learning.
gwangung
@Vlad the Inhaler:
Pot. Kettle. Black.
None of what you said even approaches within ten astronomical units of what’s going on here.
Try again.
gwangung
Or, at least, get a calculator. I’d say his internal adding machine is suspect. (Education was probably handled by Republican policies?)
r€nato
@Vlad the Inhaler:
I can.
Long Term Capital Management in 1998.
Bailed out to the tune of $3.625 billion, a bailout coordinated by the NY Federal Reserve Bank.
Bankruptcy law is whatever Congress says it is. We learned that in 2005. Strangely, the ability of BK judges to do cramdowns on vacation homes has not destroyed free enterprise and the sanctity of contracts, yet we are told that cramdowns on primary residences will absolutely do so.
roseyv
.
So then, they won’t be needing the bailout money? I’m so confused.
Michael
@Vlad the Hedgie Impaled
A few things occurred to me.
1. You’re an idiot. Of course, since you’re huffing conservative ass, that seems to be an understandable condition.
2. Do you understand that bondholders are secured only to the extent of the liquidation value of the listed physical assets? And that the value is set as of now, not way back when?
3. Do you believe that there is any significant market for idle, deteriorating plants or used manufacturing machinery that would result in them going for any more than 5 cents on the dollar?
4. Uncle Sugar is the only party offering up any sort of DIP financing. It doesn’t have to do it and can set conditions that include having the executives and objecting bondholders walk around with their elbows out, clucking like chickens.
Which would, come to think of it, be an improvement, as it would make them useful for amusement, as they’re not fucking useful for anything else.
I really wish they would go Galt. My decisionmaking skills would be far greater by a long shot.
Napoleon
@r€nato:
Thank God I podcast that show. That is what I am going to listen to at the gym tomorrow morning as I work out. I just hope he doesn’t cause me to throw a weight through a window.
scav
Furthermore, I’m rather enjoying V.Speedbump’s whinging that it’s the fault of the employees and union that Chrysler has “insane” (presumably, non-negative) labor costs while letting off the management that evidently signed said contracts, which, by the by, in speedbump world, are the only contracts that are non-binding by definition. Said un-blamable management also signed off on unsalable products, but hey, they’re not the problem. & what Jim said.
P.S. Employees, remember, you’re not investing anything at all important into a company, not compared to the speed bumps.
Secured Creditors? Check to see those aren’t straitjackets that are making you feel so comfy. You don’t automatically get all your money back when things go sour.
r€nato
@Napoleon:
the part with Savage is brief but there’s a pretty decent discussion after he hangs up.
But not as LOLworthy as Savage himself.
kay
@Vlad the Inhaler:
It isn’t true, Val. No one is “overturning” bankruptcy law.
Obama made them an offer. They turned it down.
Now they’re going to get in line and make arguments that they’re prior.
You’re simply wrong when you say it’s a done deal in bankruptcy court, and Obama somehow fixed the outcome.
It’s not true. It’s never been true. The bk court can and might re-order priorities. Read the code.
They probably should have taken 29 cents on the dollar. They don’t know what the bk outcome will be, and John’s right, they’re trying to (sports lingo!) “work the refs”.
kay
How is Barack Obama “overturning” bankruptcy law by bringing them an offer? That’s all he did. He brought them an offer, which they (stupidly) declined.
You’re telling me Obama is running the bankruptcy court?
Zifnab
So here’s what makes me laugh a little. What are you afraid of? That the UAW will run the company into the ground, just like the last set of managers? That the UAW will favor employees over bondholders in future board meetings? That you won’t get the value back on your bonds that you paid into them?
Assuming no government bailout, Chrysler is reduced to a few pennies more than worthless. This is like watching deck hands bicker over who gets to drive the post-iceburg Titanic. If the bondholders and stockholders thought they could do a better job of running the joint, maybe they should have scrapped together enough business capital to buy a controlling share. The company was selling dirt cheap as of two weeks ago. I’m sure they could have picked it up for a song.
Brick Oven Bill
The Obama Administration urges banks to extend loans, and then uses its power of government to extort 71% of the money owed to private lenders, and transfer the value to others. See the 5th Amendment.
As much as I agree that Wall Street excess is part of the problem, second only to the 1999 loosening of lending standards from Fannie-Freddie, the Administration’s actions show a lack of competence. It is a major disincentive for future lending, as bankers will have to now consider the risk that their loans will be nationalized.
The end result of this will be hyperinflation. Obama will go down in history very poorly. In many ways, the shakedown of the hedge funds could be seen as illegal, and a violation of the RICO Statutes. Perhaps RICO will be used at some time in the future.
Jay in Oregon
I see Michael Savage keeps good company: Fred Phelps and Shirley Roper-Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church are among the others named.
Now, if we could just keep all three of them from re-entering the country…
r€nato
@Brick Oven Bill: birth certificate, teleprompter, and Michelle’s shoes. Also.
yeah, we heard that about Bill Clinton too. He had near-60% approval ratings in the midst of the trumped-up impeachment and Senate trial, and he still enjoys a high level of popularity.
kay
If I make a hedge fund manager an offer, they get so incredibly offended that they insist that I am “overturning” bankruptcy law.
Before they file. Or arrive in court.
Obama really is magical, if he pulled that off.
Don’t bring these people an offer. They go insane, and they can’t handle it. Just go straight to court. Or to a therapist’s office.
Napoleon
@r€nato:
Recently they have started breaking their podcast down into separate a separate podcast of each discrete segment instead of one for the whole show (or actually I think they did one for each hour) so hopefully it is easy to find.
For the last 20 years I have thought that the greatest thing that the Dems could do is the put the fringe talkers and wackjobs that the right puts into office center stage, instead of the seeming unspoke agreement of the media to never shine a light on them. In my perfect world 5 minutes of the evening news every day would have someone like Savage on, because if the 60+% of the population that is not nuts gets to see exactly what the base of the Republican party stews in on a regular basis they are never coming back to power.
So I love it that NPR had him on and he did not fail to live up to his potential.
Zifnab
@Vlad the Inhaler:
The Bear Sterns buyout by JP Morgan was financed by the Federal Reserve. The Fed guaranteed about $30 billion in toxic assets that were at that time owned by BS.
Hedge Funds invested in Chrysler with the intent of turning a profit. Chrysler was not profitable. The funds lost a great deal of money. The hedge fund managers clearly didn’t help the process, because… well… see the current state of Chrysler. No one I’ve read is blaming the funds for the collapse. But there’s not a lot of tolerance for the investment fund that put $2 billion black, then went crying to the feds because the wheel turned up red and they weren’t going to get their money back.
I think everyone else is hitting the high notes, I just thought those two bits were worth adding.
Ruemara
@r€nato:
I approve of corrections lovingly applied with a sledgehammer.
Brachiator
@Anne Laurie:
This reminds me of a comment made by a woman in Iceland when the bankers’ greed wrecked the economy.
Jon H
“Chrysler is a poorly run business”
Run by a Private Equity firm, which is essentially a hedge fund.
dbrown
@The Cat Who Would Be Tunch: I don’t know what “إذا كان واحد منكم ولو همسا “المالي واجب” على مقربة مني ، وذلك يساعدني الله سأقدم لكم لكمة في العنق اللعينة ” even says but I have to admit that Sand Script is a very beautiful writing system, even if, like Hebrew, it is written from right to left.
r€nato
@Napoleon:
I regularly disagree with NPR listeners and even some folks here who think NPR shouldn’t have these rat-wing extremists on their programs.
I don’t want to hear them all the time, of course, but I like knowing who the enemy is and I like it that average Americans are constantly reminded of how unhinged the right-wing is in our country. Frankly I hope that the Bush regime apologists keep appearing in the media – guys like Joe DiGenova and Dickhead Cheney – so that people don’t go all wobbly on hating the GOP as the memories of the Bush regime fade.
TOTN had a debate yesterday between David Frum and Jonah Goldberg. Seems to be wingnut week there. It was a fascinating show. I liked Frum but I was hoping the GOP listens to Jonah. If you have the chance, listen to that show too. Hoo boy does Jonah have some unresolved issues. I’m thinking his entire career is based upon resentment of being the kid everyone picked on in school because he was fat and nerdy.
(some of us were that kid too, but we managed to not let it turn us into bitter, angry jerks as adults…)
Adrienne
@Vlad the Inhaler:
Hows about YOU learn what the fuck you are talking about before you come on BJ spewing crap. First of all, while hedge funds may not have receive direct gov’t bailouts, they have been direct beneficiaries of gov’t bailout funds, making them de facto bailout recipients. Two funds – Citadel Investment Group and Paloma Securities each received over $200 MILLION in taxpayer funds as AIG counterparties. Yes, they received nearly a half a billion dollars just btw the two of them. Without the AIG bailout, these funds would probably be insolvent too. So you can suck it.
r€nato
@Napoleon:
they do this with Morning Edition and All Things Considered. I find this highly annoying; I would like to hear the entire show in one shot.
gwangung
@Jon H:
No, there are differences. Private equity firms actually have a stake in the company and WANT it to do well. They buy a stake in the company and actually run it. Their exit strategies are seven to ten years out (or more). Hedge funds want to make a buck and get out quick; they don’t necessarily run it–they can’t, because they’re managing other people’s dough, not running a company. Though sometimes they call themselves private equity to scam people…
DanSmoot'sGhost
I loves me some WATB fatcats.
The GOP will back these s.o.b.s and get even further on the wrong side of events in the near to mid term. If they keep this up they can end up with fifty electoral votes in the next presidential election.
Egg ’em on. Insist that going after hedge funds is socialism!
Stooleo
For those of you who would like to read more righteous indignation by the insanely wealthy check out this.
kay
@Adrienne:
I don’t think it matters. The hedge fund managers told the administration “we’re prior, and we’ll be prior when we get to bankruptcy court, so we’re refusing your offer”.
All Obama said was ” no more offers”. Then they go to court.
I don’t know, is this an OUTRAGE?
Why?
He was supposed to say, “of course you are! Here’s your 50 cents on the dollar!”
If it’s as clear as they’re making it out to be, they should win in a walk.
Stefan
It would help your case if you had any idea at all what you are talking about. 1) Can you name a hedge fund that was bailed out by the government? No. You can’t. You are thinking of commercial banks and investment banks. Try to have at least a basic understanding of what is going on before ranting.
It would help you if you had an idea what you’re talking about, I’m afraid. While the government did not bail out hedge funds directly, it did so indirectly through the bailout of the banks. How? Simply because hedge funds had massive counterparty exposure to the banks, and so if the banks went down they would have dragged the funds with them.
Dennis-SGMM
Wasn’t one of the arguments against regulating hedge funds based on the notion that they were doing things that were beyond the comprehension of mere mortals and that regulation would hobble their coolness? Seems to me that investing in a car company that an elementary school crossing guard would tell you is walking dead is not exactly prudent. That same elementary school crossing guard might guess that the hedge funds invested in Chrysler betting that the gov would buy them off by paying them most of what they expected to make rather than what they’d get in a liquidation of the company. They put it all on 00 and they lost. Console yourself with the free drinks boys.
kay
I’d also like to know why everyone is pretending the UAW brought nothing to this negotiation.
They brought 10 billion dollars that Chrysler owed them. The hedge funds brought what Chrysler owed them. The hedge funds are claiming they’re ahead of the UAW.
Now it’s just a matter of who goes first. That’s what bankruptcy courts are for.
Library Grape
somebody call the waaaaaahmbulance
Zifnab
@Jon H: So, want to know something truly epic? The Private Equity Firm that manages Chrysler is “Cerberus Capital Management”. The chairman and resident financial visionary is John Snow – Bush 43’s former Treasury Secretary before Hank Paulson. A prominent spokesperson and international VP happens to be the intellectual juggernaut Dan Quayle. Jacob Erza Merkin, a chief partner at Cerberus was just busted in April for funneling $2.4 billion in client assets into Berney Madoff’s Ponzi fund without consulting his clients for permission.
It’s like a who’s who of big business fuck-ups. I can’t imagine how we could blame any of these clowns for Chrysler’s current predicament.
Thankovsky
This is totally off-topic, but good friggin’ Lord…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/05/specter-norm-coleman-shou_n_197057.html
“Specter: Norm Coleman Should Be Seated”
…he had to be joking…right?
kay
I’d just like to say, I’m glad Obama brought them an offer. I’m glad he offered 29 cents and they came back with 50 cents and he refused to go up.
I’d like to see MORE of this, since I’m propping up the entire world financial system.
I’m even glad the whiny hedge fund managers get their day in court.
Because…”this is America”.
4tehlulz
@Zifnab: Fool. It is well known that Dan Quayle is an agent of the UAW, who in turn is a front for the our archenemy
the JewGeorge 50r05Zandar
Neck-punching for everyone!
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
It’s not written down anywhere, so I can’t prove it but:
When I was growing up and being indoctrinated into a good little capitalist, I was told the way it works is: you buy stock in a company, thus helping to capitalize them, and if the company did well, the stock went up, and you made money. If the company did poorly, to stock went down, and you lost money.
When I found out that Wall Street (not bookies operating out of the trunk of their car) would let you bet that a company’s stock would go down, and you’d make money when it did, and that these gambling winnings were counted as part of the GNP, I knew this whole trainwreck was coming.
If anybody else comes on here talking about the “sacredness” of gambling winnings, or that if you lose enough money, you’re entitled to a do-over, that whole voicebox-crushing thing sounds pretty good.
Oh, and “Asness?” Had to be a Norwegian! Allow me to take this opportunity to apologize for this asshole and Karl Rove, while I’m at it. (I’m assuming Grover Norquist is a Swede, though? Should be -kvist if he’s a Norwegian, but old-fashioned spellings are rife in personal names.)
Sue
“4) You may like to indulge in a bit of populist rage, but I doubt you’d be so fired up to overturn bankruptcy law and basic contract law if you really had a dog in the fight.”
Bankruptcy law? Like the law that was changed a few years back to make it harder for people to file bankruptcy? You know, because people were being so irresponsible in their money management and needed to be brought into line, and if they suffered as a result of their own foolishness, well that’s how it goes? That law?
kay
Glen Beck is really upset. He’s near tears, talking about how he’s out of shape.
He’s also upset because some economists think we’ve “hit bottom”. His show won’t work if the economy improves, so I understand the tearing up at the prospect of a better economy.
He’s Oprah for conservatives. His show is a support group.
Adrienne
@kay:
It’s not. First off, they aren’t going through a total liquidation bankruptcy where Chrysler folds at the end. Second, they were fools to give up guaranteed money now in return for money in the future since there is no guarantee that they are going to get their money anytime soon PLUS the gov’t is the DIP lender!
Since gov’t money and guarantees are currently buoying the value of Chrysler’s assets, I’m sure the gov’t is going to argue in bankruptcy court that the bond holders shouldn’t get paid as if Chrysler wasn’t in this rather special position. There is no guarantee that they are going to get what they think they are going to get – and even if they did it may end up being a wash or less once you factor in opportunity costs and lawyer fees. I’m sure the lawyer fees will be rather substantial. Trust me on that.
r€nato
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: There’s nothing wrong with shorting a stock, so long as it is done legally.
It’s true that shorts can drive a stock down to unrealistic levels; it’s also true that ‘irrational exuberance’ can drive stocks to unrealistic heights, but who complains about that??? No, the shorts are the bad guys. Whatever.
Brachiator
@Dennis-SGMM:
This quite simply, is insane. It was part of the BS rationale of Enron, and part of the lure of Bernie Madoff.
One self-evident truth of investing and finance is this: whenever someone claims that their investment vehicle is only for the sophisticated investor or is too complex to explain, then someone is doing some serious stealing.
Part of accounting is not just number crunching or gamesmanship, there is a principle that financial operations have to be explainable. Otherwise, investors cannot ascertain risk.
And if you cannot ascertain risk, you are not even gambling, you’re throwin money down a rathole.
Or to make it damn simple. Imagine that you went into a casino and the minimum bet was $100,000. When you ask what the rules of the game are, the dealer tells you, “Oh, it’s too complicated to explain, but you could really win big.”
Talk about your irrational exuberance.
kay
@Sue:
No one “overturned” bankruptcy law.
Offers aren’t governed by “bankruptcy law”. They’re just offers.
gwangung
And aren’t these whiners the MINORITY of secured creditors? As in, 30%? And the 70% agreed to those terms and could very well (as in, have been frequently been known to, in past cases) force these terms on them in bankrupcty court?
Neck punch those whiners.
r€nato
@Adrienne:
So basically the hedge fund bondholders are whining because they played chicken and lost, and they might well lose in BK court too.
Economic darwinism is for the proles, apparently. The masters of the universe, on the other hand, are entitled to as much gov’t money as they can shake out of Uncle Sam.
Got it.
Jay in Oregon
Fixed.
I missed another one: Stephen Donald Black, the founder of Stormfront. Here is the official list from the UK Home Office.
jrg
@Napoleon
Savage came off as a raving lunatic. Those right-wing talk show hosts (Savage, Rush, Hannity, etc) can’t handle a show where they are not given a “mute” button for the callers, so they are a fish out of water when they are on someone else’s program. I was very amused by the incident. I’d like to hear more of them.
kay
@Adrienne:
I don’t think they are unimpeachably prior, and I’ve read the code. I took a bankruptcy course two years ago because half my clients have debt issues, and we’re always chatting about their crushing debt loads. They cry. It’s awful. I know more than I wanted to know about foreclosure, too.
I loved the course. It’s the most sensible law. It’s also in the Constitution!
Anyway, that’s all I know about, Chapter 7 and 13. But I can read the code.
My point was this: Obama isn’t “overturning” bankruptcy law. He simply made an offer.
NOW we get to bankruptcy law. The hedge fund managers are trying to work the refs. John’s right on this one.
The Cat Who Would Be Tunch
@Vlad the Inhaler:
I think everybody else has already done a superb job of responding to you but I can’t resist a good pile-on. So without further ado…
Since you’re such a proponent of basic contract law, how’s about this tidbit. Recipients of TARP have been lobbying Treasury to forgive the warrants that the government received in return for capital infusion. The idea behind securing these warrants was so that the government could get some kind of return on the money it provided under TARP. (Just to be clear, the government also did receive preferred stock but that isn’t at the heart of the matter right now.)
Anyhoo, do you see why this is a bit of an issue? No? Let me enlighten you with a nice analogy here.
Imagine you decided to purchase a house a couple of years ago and after being mesmerized by the low payments ARMs offer you initially get, you purchase a house with said ARM. After x number of years pass (typically two years but could be longer), you see your payments rise dramatically. You then argue with the bank that you just want to pay back the original principal amount as opposed to the new, larger principal amount that resulted due to the negative amortization from the initial period. Clearly though, you would be wrong to do so, since this is stipulated in the contract you signed, right?
And yet, that’s exactly what the banks are doing now. They basically want a loan from the government without paying any interest, even though they agreed to specific terms to secure those loans last year. Where’s the outrage over their lack of respect for “basic contract law”, hmmm?
I find it very amusing that it’s perfectly acceptable for large institutions to routinely challenge laws and contracts when it’s not beneficiary to them. But the foundation of the entire free world is threatened when some proposed action happens to benefit the middle-class or poor. Oh well.
grumpy realist
As I said yesterday, what Obama et. al. were trying to do is get everything lined up for a quick, clean, sedate bankruptcy. But doing that required getting 100% of everyone on board.
Ok. So the hedge funds decided to play hardball on this, figuring Obama would cave in and put more $ into the pot. Whoops, he called their bluff.
Instead, the whole thing is now thrown into the arms of a bankruptcy court/judge who, from what I’ve read, doesn’t take kindly to people wasting his time or making outrageous demands. Remember, 70% of the entities involved are all that’s required to impose an agreement on the 30% who don’t agree, as soon as you’re actually officially started bankruptcy procedings. Guess what percentage (UAW + banks) is?
So the hedge funds have managed to shoot themselves in the balls, jump into the middle of a war, and disarm themselves all at the same time. Pretty good, and it’s only Tuesday. If I were a hedge fund manager, I’d be whining too.
Brick Oven Bill
There is something very wrong with shorting stocks, and the BattleAxe guy might be on to something. Hedge funds have to disclose their holdings to the SEC, but do not have to disclose their short positions to the SEC.
Therefore we do not know if the people who did the run on the money markets last September, benefited from the subsequent collapse of the markets. I suspect that Soros, who is ‘having a very good depression’, instigated the run on the money markets, and shorted the stock market.
This financial maneuver was made during the week when McCain regained the lead in the Presidential race. After the markets tanked, Obama walked away with the election. Geithner was the man who decided to let Lehman Brothers fall that same week.
Martian Buddy
We’ll bear that in mind the next time you guys fail, Cliffy.
In fact, I think I’ll get in touch with my congressmen about the need for strict regulation of hedge funds and the evils of bailing out same.
BooBooBear
@ShortBus Bully
I still like the old days, when the peasants took up pitchforks and just helped the system fix itself.
chuck
@Vlad the Inhaler:
After Gramm-Leach-Bliley, is there really any qualitative difference?
Secondly, bailout or no, they’re still the ones with the sense of entitlement to profit. They bet. They lost. Suck it the fuck up.
JL
@gwangung: Conservatives get their news from Limbaugh, Cavuto and Beck. When they troll on BJ with such informed posters, they are lost and revert to talk about plastic trays and white pickups.
kay
@gwangung:
They could force a “cram down” (the 70%) because the rule is 2/3 majority can do that, as I understand it.
Read the letter at the top of the page. They’re insulted with the offer, and they’re angry that Obama called them out.
It’s not really about “bankruptcy law”, yet. It will be, because…they refused the offer.
JL
Why? Shorting stocks had nothing to do with the ponzi schemes that the investment companies were running.
gwangung
@kay:
So…neck punch, right?
kay
@grumpy realist:
And I read what you wrote yesterday, and it’s still true.
It doesn’t matter what really happened here, because conservatives have a talking point, and it’s “Obama overturned bankruptcy law”.
He did that before they entered a bankruptcy court. It’s magic.
r€nato
@Brick Oven Bill:
Soros did it, eh?
I’d hate to think you’re going all wobbly on us, BOB… you forgot to blame Clinton, Carter, Barney Fag, Chris Dodd, ACORN and the ni&&ers.
kay
@gwangung:
No neck-punching. I don’t want them harmed. I think it’s tragic enough their kids have to go to public school.
Why can’t they just shut up and go to court, and we’ll see how they do? They wanted to go there, right? Now they’re there. That’s what happens when you refuse the offer.
r€nato
@kay:
so basically all this whining is nothing more than negotiation tactics.
When you have the facts on your side, you argue the facts.
When you have the law on your side, you argue the law.
When you have neither on your side, you pound on the table.
Brick Oven Bill
My explanation for the reason Soros is making a profit in a down market is that he shorted the market. My speculation that he is the one who made the run on the banks is based on the fact that it has not been disclosed, to my knowledge, who was pulling out the money.
Geither is the one who made the decision on Lehman Brothers, the very same week that McCain pulled ahead in the polls.
r€nato
@jrg:
when Glenn Beck does it, I am certain it is a shtick.
when Savage does it, I am certain that he’s not acting. I don’t know how anybody could go around acting out that kind of rage several hours a day and be a nice guy the rest of the time.
r€nato
@Brick Oven Bill:
Dick Cheney said much the same thing about the WMDs in Iraq. The fact that the UN weapons inspectors could not find anything, was proof of how well Saddam had hidden them according to Vice President Sauron.
r€nato
I heartily encourage all Republicans to follow BOB’s lead and blame Obama’s victory on a Soros-led conspiracy to tank the economy and the stock market before the election, ACORN, the commie media and anything but the fact that Obama is a highly competent, charismatic leader who ran a brilliant campaign and McCain ran a shitty campaign on behalf of a political party regarded with the same contempt as TV preachers and used car salesmen.
kay
@r€nato:
I think so. I do think it’s hysterical that hedge fund managers are feeling so victimized by that Barack Obama.
Grover Norquist is on my tv as we speak blaming lawyers for our ridiculous health care delivery costs.
Are they whining? No, they are not. The Masters of the Universe are a tad wimpy.
gwangung
@kay:
Are their kids going to public school?
I want something morethan the full, unfettered sarcasm and derision of the White House press corps unleashed on these twits.
Dennis-SGMM
@Brick Oven Bill:
It couldn’t be that someone with a basic knowledge of accounting may have concluded that the fantastic “profits” declared by the market, despite the lack of change in the underlying fundamentals, were bullshit and acted accordingly now could it?
Finding out that some people are smarter than you are is not evidence of a plot.
Tom Hilton
@Professor Fate: have you read Jill LePore’s history of bankruptcy in the New Yorker (2 or 3 issues ago)? Makes your point, only longer and in more detail. Funny how closely the Republican party line tracks the rationale for debtors’ prison.
@Renato: in the Cheneyverse (where Brick Oven Bill resides), absence of evidence is evidence of cover-up.
Brachiator
@Brick Oven Bill:
Well, no. Let’s go Wiki:
This is not quite the same thing as making a final decision.
And even before this happened, there was this:
George Herbert Walker IV is, of course, a Bush cousin.
It is an interesting twist though, to praise Geithner here, rather than to excoriate the Lehman boneheads.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
So putting a hyphen in front of something turns it into a strikeout of an arbitrary number of characters? FYWP!
OK, if BoB is on my side, obviously I’m wrong somewhere.
Brick Oven Bill
Brachiator. Gee, you mean the Bush financial team, and the Clinton financial team, and the Obama financial team all seem to travel in the same circles? Isn’t that ironic.
JL
@Dennis-SGMM: It might be time for him to talk about plastic trays, Glenn Beck and white pickups again.
TenguPhule
Congratulations, Vlad the Inhaler, you have proved you’re full of it.
The debt was bought for pennies on the dollar.
They made a bet against the house.
House won.
Now shut up and go cry in your beer or something.
TenguPhule
And he would have gotten away with it too if it hadn’t been for those pesky Hobbits!
TenguPhule
QOTD.
Joel
The guy’s name is Asness. How appropriate.
By the way, you guys successfully punked Vlad the Inhaler, unless he came back as a sockpuppet.
kay
The bankruptcy judge just ruled they’ll release the names behind the hedge funds, because it’s a public record.
They claimed they were getting death threats. Well, their lawyer sort of said someone was getting death threats. Not him, but someone else.
However, as it turns out, that argument was not well-taken.
I think we should start calling the whole “we’re getting DEATH THREATS” thing “the AIG defense”.
Brandon T.
@Vlad the Inhaler:
Isn’t that what the AIG bailout was? I seemed to remember that the reason for bailing out AIG was in fact to prevent their numerous commercial bank/hedge fund counterparties from taking massive losses….
John D.
@dbrown:
It’s a close to literal transliteration of “If one of you even whispers “fiduciary duty” near me, so help me Allah I will punch you in the damned neck. ”
I LOL’ed
mey
I. Love. You.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
mey
Prior to co-founding AQR Capital Management, Cliff was at Goldman, Sachs & Co. where he was a Managing Director and Director of Quantitative Research for the Asset Management Division.
That explains it all. Goldman Sachs, the most traitorous, life-blood-sucking company in the US right now.
(And part of the McCain campain, nice: http://www.muckety.com/Clifford-S-Asness/144632.muckety)
tc125231
@Just Some Fuckhead:
ellie
Correction: god damned neck as in “so help me Allah I will punch you in the god damned neck.” God damn was my socialist father’s favorite profanity.
tc125231
@gwangung:
tc125231
@grumpy realist:
Bill Arnold
I suspect that Soros, who is ‘having a very good depression’, instigated the run on the money markets,…
Gee, and I thought that what pushed the economy over the edge was the oil price shock, driven by manipulative speculation by a certain large Wall Street investment bank which was focused on betting against a pipeline company that had large bets on lower oil prices. It’s hard to keep all these banker conspiracy theories aligned. Maybe they’re all true.
I wish B. Obama had at least joked about appointing Soros Secretary of the Treasury.
buermann
Ok, so the guy says:
So what was the breech of contract law in Obama’s pre-bankruptcy plan? It still would have gone through that process, just that must faster if there was a consensus among senior creditors, and if the court isn’t obligated to pay off every red cent in senior debt, niether is the administration.
All that’s left after that is some name calling. Who the hell cares.
wilfred
Wallahi, sounds better in Arabic – accent on the second syllable.
grumpy realist
Just read in the NYTimes that the bankruptcy judge gave the go-ahead for the sale of Chrysler to Fiat.
That’s 0-2 now, hedge fundies. Care to try for round three?
Adrienne
Pretty much. See JC’s new post about what happened in BK court. It’s pretty rich if you ask me.
This Obama kid? He got mad skillz son.
glogrrl
I am genuinely sick of your nonsense. If one of you even whispers “fiduciary duty” near me, so help me Allah I will punch you in the damned neck.
John Cole, I think I love you
Me, too! Keep bitchin’!
SnarkIntern
@Brick Oven Bill:
You know what you are Bill? You are a jealous little whiny bitch.
Sorry, that was rude. You are a doing a great imitation of a jealous little whiny bitch.
Realist
@Brachiator #49
Well, sort of. But this quote seems like a better fit:
It can’t be bargained with, it can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until it owns every fucking dime on the planet.
ObamaDonor
All right, let’s see who is doing partisan bashing, and who really believes what they’re saying. Say the situation were different, and the UAW pension fund held the secured debt, while Bob Jones University held the unsecured. George Bush didn’t leave office in 2009 (Why should Republicans losing an election matter? They didn’t win in 2000 or 2004.)
GW’s plan for saving Chrysler is for the UAW to turn over its secured rights, worth $400 million, to BJU, which will organize a Christian Prayerfest To Save Chrysler. The UAW pension trustees balk. GW knows unions have some poltical support, so he doesn’t attack the UAW directly. He discovers that one of the dissenting trustees has had a sex change operation, and transexuals are unpopular. He announces that God can’t save Chrysler because some transsexual freaks in Detroit want to deliver it to Satan instead.
A transsexual in Connecticut, who also happens to be a pension trustee but has no connection to Chrysler writes a letter objecting to the demonization of transsexuals, the looting of pension funds to aid political allies of the President and the pressuring of pension trustees to ignore their obligations to their beneficiaries.
Which side are you on?
I’m a big fan of Obama in general, but I think this thing was stupid and wrong. There are more beneficial owners of the secured debt (through pension funds, 401(k)’s and other investments) than UAW pension recipients, the President is taking from them to give to the UAW. He couldn’t attack them directly, so he singled out hedge funds because he knew they are unpopular, not because most of the secured lenders were hedge funds. He didn’t mention that “hedge fund” does not mean a small group of rich people, but money managed for all kinds of institutions, including the UAW. He didn’t mention that most of the secured lenders ran non-hedge insitutional or retail investment vehicles.
I know previous Presidents have done far worse things, but I expect more from this one. He shouldn’t have taken money from one group to give to another without proposing a tax and asking the House of Representitives. He shouldn’t have misrepresented the transfer by implying it was only some greedy rich people paying the bill. And he shouldn’t have used the moral suasion of the Presidency to pressure people who were only doing their jobs; a fund manager cannot “share the sacrifice” by giving away her clients’ money.
Most of the people here are blasting Asness. But think about the CEO of TARP bank, who rolled over immediately and surrendered his clients’ money to the UAW. He knew if he didn’t he might get fired, or the government might take a closer look at his double super-secret reverse deferred option bonus system designed to pay him $100 million without triggering the compensation caps. Also, of course, he knew you were anxious to share in the sacrifice.
Let’s say your 401(k) or pension fund had money run by his asset management division, and you’re going to pay $1 per month more in health care deduction due to his losses on Chrysler secured debt.
Now, instead of a skunk, you see Asness and TARP CEO in the road. You can’t hit both, sorry. Which one do you take out?
TenguPhule
Who own hedge funds, right.
This would be the grandpas and grandmas and moms and dads.
Fuck you wingnut spooftroll, just fuck you.
Bent
How is it the hedge fund’s fault that banks made lousy loans, as well as levering up? You say, “we just spent how many trillions of dollars propping up the economy because of what you jackasses did to the free enterprise system.”
Huh?
Perhaps you should get a bit of education before you make such ignorant statements. Hedge funds had exactly ZERO to do with bringing the economy to the point it is. Moreover, there is the little matter of law (that even a goofball president can’t override) that says there is a priority of debt repayment. NO – not the government, not the unions, nope, nada. It says employees and taxes are paid first, THEN the bondholders get paid first. The bondholders are the ones who loaned the company money to operate and supply those jobs and create economic value in the first place. I’m sorry you clowns without a clue of the whole scope of this situation feel the way you do…but guess what – it’s the way it works and a wingnut president can’t rewrite the law to fit his political agenda for the unions who donated to him in a big way. Screw the unions – they helped bring down Chrysler, and now GM is next on the docket. And guess what? In bankruptcy, bondholders get paid first. Period. End of story.
Now go back to your doublewide there in the trailer park, sit down and have a baloney sandwich, and shut up.