The wingnut caucus of the GOP is back to their usual fearmongering, and are set to introduce a bill dictating where detainees at Gitmo can be moved:
The bill attempts to place restrictions on transfers of Guantanamo Bay detainees to the United States, and has two primary features:
* It prohibits the Obama administration from transferring any Guandetainee to any state without approval from that state’s legislature and governor
* Before transferring any detainee to any state, it requires the administration to notify Congress of the name of the detainee, and to stipulate to Congress that the release would not hamper continued prosecution of the detainee and wouldn’t negatively impact the state’s population.
The political game plan, obviously, is to tie Obama’s closure of Guantanamo to the idea that its detainees could come to a community near you, in order to sow fears more broadly about Obama’s foreign and anti-terror policies. It’s also designed to pressure Congressional Dems, particularly in red states, to distance themselves from Obama’s policies or risk being painted weak on terror.
I know exactly where to send them. Here:
President Barack Obama has 240 terror suspects he has said will be moved out of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within a year. The city of Hardin has a brand-new empty jail.
A match made in heaven? Hardin officials think so; Montana’s congressional delegation thinks not.
The development authority in Hardin, a city of 3,400 people bordering the Crow Indian Reservation, built the $27 million, 460-bed jail two years ago and has been looking for tenants ever since. Its construction loans are in default.
The City Council voted 5-0 Tuesday in favor of a resolution supporting a proposal to house terror suspects currently detained at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay while they await trial.
“Somebody has to stand up and put (the Guantanamo prisoners) in their backyards. It’s our patriotic duty,” said Greg Smith, director of the city’s Two Rivers Authority.
You can read a more detailed story about this in the Billings Gazette piece. It goes without saying that the Montana congressional delegation, Democrats and Republicans, are against it. I’m not sure I see a significant downside- they have the facility, they need the work, and they are willing to do it. Those would probably be pretty good paying jobs and respectable work for good citizens. Why not?
Patriot
Move ’em to Montana soon. Going to be a dental floss tycoon.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Because it makes too much sense. That’s why not.
Jon H
Do they have the special bulletproof glass cell needed for KSM, who can control metal with his mind?
Do they have a cell that can withstand Hambali’s adamantium claws?
How are they going to keep some other terrorist from using scrap hardware to build an impervious battlesuit?
I don’t think you’ve fully considered the risks, John.
geg6
WTF is wrong with these people? We have hardened terrorists and, honestly, even worse people in the Supermax. And no one has yet gotten out of the Supermax without having no pulse and being in a coffin. I never understood the whole Gitmo thing.
Unless, of course, you plan on doing things to the prisoners there you wouldn’t want an American judge looking into.
John Cole
@Patriot:Will you be raising it up and waxing it down?
Joshua Norton
Don’t the wingnuttier members realize the people will be in JAIL? They’re not going to be wandering around town. Why not take them? There’s a whole 9/11 terrorist enclave imprisoned in Colorado and no one has been murdered in their sleep yet.
Dennis-SGMM
@Patriot:
The guards will be armed with zircon-encrusted tweezers.
b-psycho
The arguments that the wingnuts make about detainees point to summary execution. How long until they finally admit it & complete the circle?
gwangung
Ha! I really love this. Yes, Please In My Neighborhood!
And to quote Jon Stewart:
SnarkIntern
Aw, no, the Wings’ attempt to invent a whole trainload of shiny new Willie Hortons is going to die in the city council chambers of Montana?
That’s a crying goddam shame.
Zifnab25
Where do we keep Jeffory Dalmer and Charles Manson? Can we put them there?
Dennis-SGMM
That there Republican bill should be passed as long as it includes an amendment stipulating that neither George Bush nor Dick Cheney shall enter any state without approval of that state’s legislature and governor.
Sam Simple
With the exception of KSM, Gitmo is filled with the slowest runners in Afghanistan. Nothing more. They are less dangerous than your average Blood or Crip.
Ninerdave
Because ZOMG!!! THEY IZ TERRORISTS!!!!
Bubblegum Tate
Well, Dahmer got killed when he was in jail. To wingnuts, this could be an argument in favor of bringing detainees in-country.
gwangung
@Bubblegum Tate: Well, it’s an argument for more than wingnuts…
freelancer
I think John needs another category for posts like this wherein we see the thin veil separating Wingnuts from embracing absolute panic/treason in defense of mustard.
I’m sick of it, completely.
I vote for “chest-thumping bedwetters“.
Punchy
Just another clueless lib. Clearly, after they Shawshank their way onto Butte Ave., and have successfully raped all 14 women in the state, they will join together Voltron-style and become their own SuperDirtyBomb, which will essplode uranium and Korans, sickening evangellys and hot white women.
It’s a plan so clear, so obvious….I’m glad the goat-ropers in M’tana can see the folly of Obama’s shenanigans.
John O
Jeez, John, I hope you’re not serious.
I mean, SATSQ and all.
Terrorist have superpowers! Haven’t you heard?
EnderWiggen
Ever notice how cowardly wingnuts are? Everything is scary to them.
Wulfgar
Take it from a left of center Montanan who is a veteran of this here argument. The idea has been nixed, not by the wingnuts, but by Montana’s Democratic Senators, with Baucus in the lead. What has me still amazed to this very day are the number of progressives and liberals in this state who are adamantly opposed to using the Hardin jail. I understand some of the complaints. Montana has always been a dumping ground/red headed stepchild of national need and commerce, and some are afraid that this is another such instance.
But I still shake my head at the number of progressives out there (even in state) who cried loudly for Gitmo to be closed and never thought for a second where these people will be moved.
blogenfreude
Send them to Texas. When the secede, the problem will disappear.
And if they wanted to put them on army bases could Congress do anything? Commander-in-Chief powers and all that?
Hugh Jass
Just 5 months ago the Republicans would have argued that Congress had no ability to interfere with the President’s Commander-in-Chief powers to determine how to handle Gitmo detainees.
By the way, I don’t think that the concern is that the terrorist suspects would escape, so much as that any facility or town housing them would become a target for terrorism.
r€nato
I think the objection is that having a prison full of terrorists and accused terrorists in your state or backyard makes it a target for terrorism or an al-Qaeda breakout attempt.
I think that’s a bit silly but it’s not completely irrational. Montana seems like a pretty good place to stick ’em; it’s remote and I would think that your average jihadi intent on casing the area and plotting an attack, would not have much luck blending into the population there.
KRK
Wow. Hardin. Surprises me not at all that they built a prison as a cornerstone of their economic development plan (without having any contracts lined up). Good for them volunteering to take the Gitmo detainees. My stepdad lives just a few miles outside Hardin for 6 months of every year. He’s a 70-something Republican who can’t quite understand where the party’s embrace of culture war and incompetence-as-virtue came from. I’m quite sure he’d have no problem with the new inmates. He certainly wouldn’t be afraid of them.
TenguPhule
The work couldn’t be outsourced to India, enabling the bosses to pocket most of the money and send the rest as kickbacks to the honorable representatives of Montana.
Ash Can
Because the Montana congressional Dems and Republicans are pants-whizzing cowards.
TenguPhule
It’s completely silly and irrational considering the damage they could do if they escaped onto military facilities.
Jon H
@r€nato: “I think the objection is that having a prison full of terrorists and accused terrorists in your state or backyard makes it a target for terrorism or an al-Qaeda breakout attempt.”
The same is likely true of drug lords.
Now, in Europe, there have been several instances of helicopters being hijacked and used to spring convicts from prison. A cult leader recently escaped that way, with a couple of compatriots. I believe he’s been recaptured.
But I don’t recall anyone ever trying that in the US. Perhaps European prisons don’t have guards with guns on the walls, whereas ours do?
Common Sense
Montana is also attempting to pass a law exempting themselves from any sort of gun regulation:
Silencers, weapons, and any ammunition made in Montana would be available with NO background check, NO registration, and NO waiting period.
I sense a reality show waiting to happen.
TenguPhule
A howitzer in every rich man’s backyard!
Be the first to drive your own fully armed gas guzzling M-1 Tank!
Sometimes I wonder how is it the human race hasn’t wiped itself out yet. Not for lack of trying, that’s for sure.
Dave C
If anything, it’s the safety of the terrorists that is going to be the biggest problem. It seems to me like it would be much more difficult to keep fellow inmates from attacking the terrorists than it would be to keep the terrorists from escaping from a maximum security prison.
steve
I’m from Nevada, and I made the same suggestion concerning Yucca mountain. We spent millions of dollars on all those tunnels.
I much rather take my chances with a few terrorist locked up in Yucca mountain than have many generations of my family worry about nuclear waste leaking into our ground water.
kay
We have a regional jail where I live. It’s a jail, not a prison, but people are housed there in transit to prison, and can stick around for as long as 6 months.
The jobs are okay. They’re union members, the employees, but not very well-paid.
They’re not the happiest workers on the face of the planet, corrections officers. There seem to be two categories: angry and disgruntled or sad and hopeless. I have yet to meet one who loves his or her work.
They put it here because it’s rural, land was cheap, and the county commissioners were desperate for job creation. They were thrilled.
I never gave it the slightest thought as far as my own safety. They can put them anywhere secure, as far as I’m concerned.
David Hunt
I think that the (unspoken) problems that Right-Wingers have with bring the prisoners from GITMO into the U.S. is that they will no longer be able to keep them outside of the protections of U.S. law. They currently have theoretical rights, but once they’re in a spot that doesn’t require diving through a dozen diplomatic hoops to get within 90 miles of, they’ll start getting regular visits from lawyers! After that one or more of them will eventually be released!! It won’t matter that it’s just some poor schmuck that who was turned in to the Americans because he wouldn’t let the neighbor hump his goats. A terrorist walks among us!!
On a more cynical, less hysterical note, it might also be that lots of people in power don’t want the GITMO prisoners to be stop being incommunicado, because details of what was done to them will start to get out and it will become blatantly obvious how far down into barbarism we fell.
bvac
@Wulfgar:
I still don’t get why this is a problem. Can’t they just be moved to one of Obamas concentration camps?
kay
@David Hunt:
It’s ridiculous. When you pick up a prisoner, he’s yours. We can’t warehouse these people far from our sight and continue to pretend we’re somehow insulated from them.
They’re ours, as long as we’re holding them. We should accept the responsibility for dealing with them.
The cowardice in this “debate” is just disgusting. All tough guy posturing, no risk.
Tonal Crow
This phenomenon scores 95 out of 100 on Teh Stupid Grandstanding Index.
Tonal Crow
@Dennis-SGMM:
I insist on addin’ a “citizens’ veto” ref’rendum to your ‘mendment. Terr’rists is one thing, super-duper unitary-executive torturin’ terr’rists with 45 minute ‘mushroom clouds’ who done hexecuted 5,000 of our boys is somethin’ else.
Wulfgar
To all you folk who keep talking about what Montana “is attempting”, it might interest you to know that our legislature meets for only 90 working days, every other year. They’ve already adjourned for the year. They’re not attempting anything. They’ve already done it.
This is why I commonly dread Montana being brought up in a national forum. One of the first 3 comments will no doubt be a reference to that stupid Zappa song, and many of the rest will be geared towards people opining about a state they know nothing about, and hardly understand.
Here’s a few hints:
The reason that the Federal “Real ID” program is a failure? Montanan’s said “no way”.
We’ve kicked our militia’s out, or marginalized the crap out them. We don’t tend to tolerate extremists of any ilk.
We’re home to the longest running intrastate football rivalry in the country’s history.
Yup, we got a lotta guns, and we like it that way. We’re also the world’s 6th largest nuclear power. Hehe. We’ve kept those nukes secure, one whole bunch better than other states have. I think we could deal with controlling a bunch of people accused of terrorism without any problem at all. It’s sad when our Senators don’t seem to respect us any more than many in this forum do.
kay
It’s old-fashioned, I know, but there’s something deeply immoral about waging an endless war where most Americans refuse to take the slightest risk, or make the slightest sacrifice.
I was told this was a war. I assumed that came with at least minor sacrifice, when I got wind of the plans for this endless what-ever-it-is.
What were other people thinking when we launched this thing? That it would be completely risk-free?
I see some moral hazard there.
Ash
Because real Mericans only like imprisoning black people. They’re scared shitless of “terrorists,” some of whom were just walking down the street and captured for no reason.
kay
@Wulfgar:
I have complete faith in any state’s ability to handle the prisoners, and I can certainly get on with it even with the 1% uncertainty factor that comes with my country picking up hundreds of prisoners and having to HOLD them somewhere.
Christ. We’re like children.
Bubblegum Tate
“Welcome to Montana: Tool up, pardner!”
kay
Just allocate then evenly through the states. That way, there can no whining. A shared sacrifice.
We’ll forget all about them in 2 weeks, like we do with all infamous prisoners.
TenguPhule
Famous last words.
Wulfgar
@Kay (43)
That’s what saddens me the most. Why don’t we cowboy up? We have a town (and neighboring city of Billings) willing to say “Hey. We’ll take ’em, we’ll hold ’em til trial, and we’ll support what ever needs be done.” Trial facilities can be built right at the Hardin jail. A special judicial branch is the right thing to do in this case, so judges are not a problem. This thing would be so clean, so above board and so simple …and Baucus plays NIMBY. I have to wonder if maybe there isn’t some collusion going on to keep this whole process in the shadows; to defacto deny these people Habeas Corpus in lue of actually doing so. I am disgusted.
Wulfgar
Yeah, you quote ’em back to me when I’m proven wrong. The first and only state level politician elected from the Constitution party was in Montana. And we showed him the road …
kay
@Wulfgar:
I think it’s just rank political cowardice, rather than any grand plan.
They’re afraid. Not of the prisoners, because that’s irrational, we have super-max prisons all over the place, but afraid of the negative campaign ads.
I think your idea of an integrated facility is a good one. I hadn’t thought it through to that extent, but it absolutely makes sense.
We know how to do “circuit judges” where I live, or did, back in the bad old days. I imagine Montana has it figured out.
JWW
Yeah,
Sounds great John, why don’t you think about it first. When I bought my first motorcycle I said yeah that is the one, when I bought my first truck, I said yeah that is the one. When I was twenty years of age, I said that was a stupid thing to do.
Maybe you and Doug E Boy can get together and find a home together!!!
That is a very bad idea. They have no place on US soil.
JWW
Denise-SGMM,
Did you say you from NY?
Blue Raven
@JWW:
Oh, so I guess we ought to just do a summary execution because they are clearly a risk by being left breathing?
John D.
@JWW:
The fuck?
They are in our custody. How is having prisoners in our custody on our soil any sort of issue?
Wulfgar
Gitmo is our soil, moron.
kay
@John D.:
I don’t get it either. It’s a complete lack of interest in taking responsibility for anything we do or say, as a country.
We’re delicate flowers, with enormous firepower.
We can’t bear the strain of hearings on the torture policy or…..I don’t know, we might have a really fractious discussion, and we can’t even imagine holding the prisoners we took anywhere near where we live and work.
It’s a fantasy. It’s actions without consequences.
If we supported taking prisoners, and we did, we probably should have given 5 seconds thought to where they were going to be held.
They’re ours. In custody. That makes us responsible.
Delia
I’ll tell you what I’m sick of. I’m sick of this whole infantile argument that it’s the President’s job to keep us all safe. You never heard that kind of crap before 9/11. What are we, a bunch of five year olds who need their daddies to carry them around all the time? No wonder the wingers are afraid to let all the big scary men into our mainland prisons. They might sneak into their houses and hide under their beds so they can jump out in the middle of the night and yell “Boo!”
kay
@Wulfgar:
I’m amazed at that too. It;s okey-dokey to hold them in Cuba, I guess.
Where no one we know personally lives, and they’re commies anyway.
Do people really not know we’re holding convicted terrorists in this country, and have been for years?
Where did they think they went post-conviction?
kay
@Delia:
Bravo. I agree completely.
We’re not safe. We’ve never been safe. We’re never going to be safe.
Such are the realities of adulthood. I want to live in a big grown-up country.
joe from Lowell
Why not?
Because Muslim terrorists are superheroes, who can use their powers of flight, magnetism, and communication with animals to bust out of any prison man can devise.
Unless it’s in Cuba.
JWW
Blue Raven, John D., Wulfgar,
We need to send them back to their country of origin. But that would mean one of two things, they let them go or kill them. Oh I forgot one option, send them to a Saudi Rehab Center.
The point being, if we bring them to the continental US, we will pay dearly in the long run.
To the minor brains addressed above, no it is not US soil. It is rented property.
TenguPhule
Because having real trials to determine innocence or guilt would end American civilization as we know it!
Someone failed basic law and government.
JWW
Ten Jew,
You are the idiot as always. Why is it you try so hard to find fault in the USA. We really aren’t that bad. Justice is about being fair.
War is never fair, it is about defeating the opposer or those in conflict.
All parties, (goverment, religion and homelands) come into play. You have never had your door kicked in by someone who means you harm or to steal from you. You have never served or thought about serving your country.
You are the same guy who would beg for justice if it were your family was violated!!!
As far as Gittmo, you again are wrong. I’m not a lawyer because I wouldn’t want to be like you. Take Gittmo to court and see where you end up as far as being US soil.
asiangrrlMN
Oh, good grief. My head hurts. As Jon Stewart pointed out, we have a jail that houses a guy who eats human brains. If there’s one thing the US is really good at, it’s imprisoning people! This is ridiculous. We create a situation that places these people in limbo, and now we refuse to deal with them? We castigate other countries for not taking them in when we won’t do it ourselves? What a bunch of wusses we are (Montanans, excepted).
JWW
asiangrrlMN,
The reason we don’t send them to other countries is because they will end up dead and without a real trial.
Inauguration Day of 2009 chanaged all of this. They were safe, had a temp home and food you can’t afford.
Now you want to torture them with moving, poor food and living where they can’t see the ocean!!!
JWW
I really hate getting stuck on one post but you guys and gals are so amusing. Just because I don’t agree with you does not mean I dislike you.
That is of course unless you are like John, his point of view is to incite and make money. He has no stance on anything, just a daily point of how many responses can I get from this post.
JWW
Back to Ten Jew Fool,
The word “Occupied” would be something for your dumb ass to think about.
jvill
TPM also has a great snippet up:
Not As Brave As We Used To Be
Number of Gitmo detainees that the GOP hopes to keep off mainland U.S. soil with its “Keep Terrorists Out Of America Act“: roughly 250.
Number of Axis POWs detained in camps on the U.S. mainland at the end of WWII: roughly 425,000.
–David Kurtz
I thought Republicans were some sort of badasses, with all their signs about hunting liberals, and liked to get drunk and drag those damn queers behind their “mow-over-an-illegal-Mexican” 6000hp pick-up trucks.
Now they’re scared of a handful of broken men, grabbing their hankies because they’re so skeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd.
I’m pretty confident in our fine men and women in Montana too keep these guys under control.
I don’t know why Congressional Republicans don’t have faith in our fine men and women in Montana.
Why do Congressional Republicans hate America?
Although this is just amazing:
Isn’t that just the damn epitome of wingnut thought these days: If the law doesn’t comport to my belief system, I just deny it out of existence. Fucking Christ.
Oh, and DIJON YOU COMMIES!
bago
@TenguPhule: Fuck Montana and their irresponsibly permissive attitude towards guns.
When you have grizzly bears and moose, you kind of need some high end weaponry to defend yourself. Understandable. However if someone shows themselves to be irresponsible with firearms, they need to be locked down forever. Not a slap on the wrist so they can go on murder sprees later in life.
Stella G
My husband and I have been saying for years that we would be happy if Michigan agreed to accept some of these guys for the added revenue. What’s so scary? Our prisons successfully contain hundreds of thousands of violent criminals every day. These guys would be under intense security. It’s not like the US deals with prison breaks on a daily basis. The Right acts like the Gitmo detainees have magical powers that would be unleashed were they placed in regular, maximum security federal prisons. Why do they have such little faith in our jails?
Cris
Are you talking about Rick Jore? In 2004, he initially beat Windham by two votes, only to have it turned over in recount. In 2006, he bulldozed Windham handily. The only reason he’s not in the legislature right now is term limits. I don’t think we’ve shown him much of a road.
Frankly, I think we’re rather tolerant of extremists. But then, I’m west of the Divide, so maybe it’s a little kookier over here.
Cris
The Hardin proposal sounds like a winner to me. However, these two paragraphs stood out in the Billings Gazette article:
Oh great. If they move the Gitmo prisoners to Hardin, any Billings residents with a hint of swarthiness are going to have to constantly look over their shoulder for roving packs of vigilantes.
And proud we all are of this glorious history.
James F. Elliott
That bill does not prevent them from being transferred to Washington D.C. Stick ’em in the Capitol Police’s holding cells until Congress stops wetting itself.
JWW hereby permanently marginalized for being an idiot for the rest of eternity. Please hand in your keyboard and DSL access to the nearest adult supervision and go play with yourself until you go blind and develop beastly calluses.
JWW
James F Elliot,
When you mother comes out of hibernation to care for you again, call me.