Impressive, even by Senate standards:
In a widely expected move, the Senate has voted overwhelmingly to block the $80 million President Obama requested to shut down the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The roll call here. The margin was 90-6.
Yesterday, Senate Democratic leaders announced that they wouldn’t hand over the money needed to close the facility until Obama releases a comprehensive plan detailing what the administration will do with remaining detainees. We’ll have more on the breakdown between Congress and the White House later today.
Can we finally put to bed the pipe dream that many of you have that 60 Democratic votes in the Senate will matter? And can you all stop mocking me when I say “When the Democrats become as useless as the Republicans…”
It isn’t a matter of if, it is a matter of how long it will take.
robertdsc
It’s going to be a long 4 years. Nice try, Barack.
schrodinger's cat
Spineless senators is spineless
Davis X. Machina
The Democratic reflexive crouch on defense and security issues will persist at least as long, in the absence of any support in reality, as the GOP’s reputation for fiscal probity has lasted, in the absence of any support in reality.
Max Planck might as well have had politics as physics in mind when he said “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”
El Tiburon
No doubt, the democrats are worthless. They are simply the finger in the dyke of Republican atrocities.
Even Jim Fucking Webb; he comes out with a prison overhaul bill, then pulls this “we don’t want no stinking mooslims in our jails!”
WTF?
Take Obama. Please.
But before the brush gets too broad, there are a few good dems in Congress. Our only hope is Mo’ Better Dems.
Oh, and fuck Harry Reid.
Captain Haddock
Sorry, but what is so unreasonable about this? Am I missing something? Why wouldn’t Obama present a plan for handling the remaining detainees? Any plan at all, even if not perfect, would have forced the Senate to act.
I am not being snarky. I just don’t see this being a Senate problem.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
Look….. locking people up is an American specialty. We’re extremely good at it. We do it more per capita than any country on earth, and spend more per capita doing it. We’ll throw a pot dealer into solitary at a Super Max prison, driving him insane in the process, and never feel any dissonance about it. We’ll snatch hapless taxi drivers off of the streets of Kabul and lock their asses up forever. We are the fucking champs of locking people up.
Surely we can figure out how to lock up these guys on US soil without soiling our underwear.
John Cole
@Davis X. Machina: All it takes is one washed up wingnut on Meet the Press to say “they want to release terrorists into the country” and the Democrats fold in unison.
El Cid
The problem is that everyone has seen those Batman cartoons where the super-villains are always sending in helicopters, tunneling machines, or toy-looking giant robots to break their fellow super-villains out of jail.
Next thing you know, there’s a prison wall which has been knocked down and there are all sorts of costumed super-villains rushing out to wreak their typical, thematic mayhem.
4tehlulz
Roll call here.
Wow, even Bernie Sanders voted yes. Jesus.
And what is Jay Rockerfeller’s excuse for not voting?
TenguPhule
Le Sigh
Come the revolution, the wall is going to be hard to see what with all the fat cats and proles in front of it.
SGEW
I don’t think we were mocking you for saying the Dems would become as useless as the Repubs (I mean, some of us are long-time Democrats fer cryin’ out loud: we know very well how very very useless our political party can be): we were showing disbelief that the Dems could become as totally batshit insane as the Repubs.
Weak, useless, spineless, and craven. Sure. Yup. Has anything changed?
Evil, barbaric, dickish, and . . . well . . . paleolithic? The G.O.P. has raised the standard to an unreachable level.
myrtle parker
What is the upside for Democratic Senators: they vote for the money and it Guantanamo is not closed a day sooner. The administration has yet to say what will be done.
What is the downside for Democratic Senators: they vote for the money and they have near constant braying by Republican Senators, MSNBC, CNN, FOX and wingnut radio endlessly repeating, over and over, that Democrats are RELEASING TERRORISTS IN AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS!
So they punted.
The issue will come up again when the Administration decides what it wants to do. In the meantime, they don’t have to listen to the noise and can get on with real agenda.
And I say, So What? Who cares? Until the Administration decides the whole point is moot.
Will
Ultimately it’s not where they will go but how they are treated.
It won’t change things if the prisoners are sent to
another place & are still tortured…excuse me subjected to “enhanced interrogation”
zzyzx
The problem is that that usually comes in the context of people wanting to elect Republicans. I can’t see a population mad at the Democrats for dragging their heels on closing Gitmo would naturally turn to a party that says that we shouldn’t even think about closing it. It’s frustrating but slow movement is better than none…
Brick Oven Bill
Speaking of the Catholic Church, The Religion of Peace, and cowards, I double dog dare you to criticize and mock the values and principles of Islam.
jon
They’ll bring it back after the recess. Inoye said that they want to see the plan before they’ll fund it. No one wants them held in their states, so they want to see who gets stuck with them before voting also.
Anphang
I swear, this kind of thing is why I’ve never understood it when, upon finding out that I’m a Southern liberal, people’s reaction is, “I’m sorry, that must suck.” Yeah, most of the time it’s a shit sandwhich, and yeah, most of the time even local politics is an up-hill fight, but at least I don’t have to vote for statewide Dems who go and do this kind of crap.
El Cid
@Brick Oven Bill: Are you kidding? If it were up to me, not one person would be wasting their time with these bloody, insane monotheisms based on nostrums from a variety of tribal peoples. ‘Religions of Peace’ My Ass.
greynoldsct00
We’re criticizing the Senate Dems right now… are you lost?
Shygetz
@Brick Oven Bill: Jihad envy?
Alan
It seems the Republicans aren’t the only losers who listen to rightwing radio. I guess we can expect the Senate’s fix for healthcare will be a private sector solution.
blogenfreude
Obama is the Commander in Chief. If he decides to imprison them at a military base, is there anything anyone can do about it?
Brick Oven Bill
There are many good things about Islam. One in theory being that interest on money is a no-no. This never works in practice however, so in my opinion it is better to be upfront about interest.
The idea of multiple wives also appeals to me, but in that particular system. If they bother you, you can say ‘I divorce you’ three times and kick their ass out the door. I would not want four American wives. That would be a nightmare.
Laura W
Wowie! An ad up top of Pammy groping her own ample bosom, a Disgruntled Republican blogger, Mama Voted for Obama book…and tasteful art ads. I am enjoying the eclectic diversity of the new advertising programs.
How come I keep scrolling back up top to gawk at Pammy?
SGEW
@Laura W: Your ads are the only things that class this place up, Laura.
asiangrrlMN
I heard the guy on Maddow last night trying to defend this. I can vaguely understand wanting a system in place before spending the money, but couldn’t they have written that into the bill? What I mostly heard from the guy (sorry, too lazy to look it up, but he’s a Dem) was wah, wah, wah, the Prez didn’t talk to us about it. After eight years of W. cramming stuff down our throats, we’re not going to take it! Yeah. Now when it’s too late to really have made a difference during the W. administration.
I heard our lone senator on MPR today talking about this, and she was saying in the political climate, it would look bad to have the prez do this by official fiat. Funny how that never was a concern for Republicans during the W. regime.
Boy. The Dems have certainly grown a few since W. left office. As someone rightly pointed out, Klobuchar was in office before this prez was. By the way, she was asked about rumors that she was in the running for SCOTUS. Mr. President, if you’re reading this blog, please don’t. She’s a fine senator, but she would not make a good SCOTUS. Plus, we need at least one senator in MN. Thank you.
P.S. How are you guys getting all the weird ads? All I’m seeing are Amazon ads and those stupid white-teeth ads, in addition to our own Laura W.’s colorful and creative ads.
greynoldsct00
She’s just really desperate for attention isn’t she? Gross.
BruceFromOhio
@El Tiburon:
Agreed.
(..was all set with a *#@x*#! reply, but then read yours)
PaulW
This is why we need three things:
1) we need people to sue Fox Not-News, not for libel or slander, but for fraud. They’re NOT REALLY NEWS. So who do we speak to about suing them them for false advertising?
2) we need a viable third party. Perot came 10 years too early and didn’t plan a bottom-up party structure with the Reform Party. Instead of trying like the Reform, Libertarian, Green or other parties who run Presidential candidates hoping to secure political prestige with the White House, we need to get people to run for local offices first (state, county, maybe even a handful of Congressional seats). Then run for federal office (Definitely Congress, House and Senate). THEN sell somebody for the Presidency. It may take 4-6 years to get anything going, and it may be more long-term than people would like, but it works (Re: Dean’s 50-state effort that revitalized the Dems).
3) we need a law outlawing crazy people from politics. Only sane people like me, Ralph the Wonder Llama, and the King of the Potato People, should have a shot at the awesome responsibilities of keeping the laser-cannon-armed Mole Mutants of the Inner Sphere at bay.
;-)
R. Stanton Scott
I’m with Captain Haddock–I don’t see a problem with the Senate requiring a plan prior to appropriating the funds to carry it out.
I have to say that as liberal as I am, I don’t like giving the President too much authority, whatever party he claims.
Laura W
@SGEW: Have I ever told you that you’re my favoritest Juicer?
GambitRF
“Yesterday, Senate Democratic leaders announced that they wouldn’t hand over the money needed to close the facility until Obama releases a comprehensive plan detailing what the administration will do with remaining detainees”
Hell, can I do it?
1. Put them in Supermax prisons alongside all the other convicted terrorists we’re currently imprisoning on US soil, none of which have ever escaped.
2. Repeat #1 as necessary
QED
KCinDC
Those of you saying “What’s the problem? They’ll do it later, after there’s a plan”: How does Harry Reid’s wholehearted embrace of wingnut talking points help? I mean, “doesn’t want terrorists to be released in the United States” — really? That’s damn fine strategery there. All part of Reid’s cunning plan to fund the Gitmo shutdown, I’m sure.
Lee
I don’t understand the right wing outrage. Today I toured our county jail. The jail is a maximum security facility. In the “confinement” wing, they get out of their cells 1 hour a day in a steel cage, by themselves, shackled with a box over their wrists. No contact with other inmates, no TV, no television, nada. One prisoner to a cell.
How exactly would one of these terrorists cause a problem in that environment?
AhabTRuler
@Laura W: Man, Raphael Palmeiro is gonna be crushed!
SGEW
@Laura W: I owe it all to my shameless flattery.
asiangrrlMN
@GambitRF: Yer hired! Harry Reid? Yer fired!
Oh, and Klobuchar also said that a commission was being revived to study…um, I don’t know what, exactly. What to do with the prisoners, I think. We don’t need any more fucking commissions!
P.S. I now see the Pam Anderson ad. Waaaay too much botox and plastic. Gross.
Napoleon
I don’t have any problem with them voting no on the money and in fact I think that was the right decision, its the buying the “we are releasing them in America” bs that Reid spewed that I have a problems with. They should have just said “we haven’t seen a plan yet so will vote no and once we see a plan we will bring it to a vote again” and leave it at that.
KCinDC
What other blogs are being subjected to that Pamela Anderson ad? Did someone decide BJ readers were particularly interested in freak porn, or is this a more general ad buy?
The Moar You Know
Looks like a photo finish in a zeppelin race. Hopefully Pammy’s dirigibles will end up the same way the Hindenburg did.
Svensker
Where’s the Pammy ad? All I’m gettin’ is the white teeth stuff and some disgusting meat shot. Is the latter Pammy?
dobrojutro
Why is Pam Anderson trying to put a headlock on the singer from Midnight Oil?
Tom65
FFS, Obama was releasing the plan tomorrow – could Reid not have waited 24 hours before capitulating?
AhabTRuler
@KCinDC: I assume it is more anti-animal killing stuff, like the steakfoto. IIRC, she’s a PETA-rast.
BombIranForChrist
This is _exactly_ why I never, ever, ever give any money to the Democratic Party. I will help out individual candidates, but the Democratic Party is only marginally less corrupt and incompetent than the Republican Party, and that’s only because the Republican Party has fallen so very fall and the Democrats haven’t been in power long enough to screw stuff up.
There are basically 3 parties now: the spineless Democrats, the craven Moderates, and the corrupt Republicans.
USA! USA! USA!
blogenfreude
@asiangrrlMN: Funny, when I first saw “Pammy” I assumed it was Atlas Juggs Pammy. I think I spend too much time online.
natthedem
@Captain Haddock: I agree.
torrentprime
@jon:
Never thought I’d throw her anyprops, but…
Feinstein: California prisons are ‘eminently capable of holding’ Guantanamo detainees.
And my favorite part of the post is this:Recently, a small town in Montana voted unanimously to request that 100 detainees be sent to its empty prison, as a way to stimulute economic development. Small towns in Montana – showing more balls than the world’s greatest deliberative body.
Laura W
@AhabTRuler: Really a shame she and Kid couldn’t make it work.
Tonal Crow
1. This is a stupid vote, probably arising from Democrats’ fear that the GOP will say that they “want to coddle terrorists”. Of course, the GOP never says that;
2. You’re badly overdrawing the 60 Democrat issue. While “60 Democrats” is not magic, every extra Democrat means that positive changes are much more likely on at least carbon emissions and health care, and are somewhat more likely on judges.
asiangrrlMN
@blogenfreude: Ok, I’m going to regret this, but is she the rightwinger who is accusing Charles Johnson of defecting? I get them so confused. If it’s her, then she’s pretty ew, too.
sarah
can someone fire Harry Reid before his re-election comes up? ugh.
J.D. Rhoades
@Captain Haddock:
The problem is that Harry Fucking Reid is regurgitating the RNC “no terrists in US jails” bullshit word for goddamn word. IOW, NO plan that involves moving Gitmo’s detainees into US prisons, even Supermax prisons, is likely to get the support of our so-called “Majority” leader. Where the hell are we supposed to put them, the fucking Death Star?
Harry Reid needs to go. NOW.
Joshua Norton
Reid is running scared because his home state is ready to throw him out. Can’t say I blame them too much, but for much different reasons.
J.D. Rhoades
@Brick Oven Bill:
They don’t like Carolina barbecue and they have a fucked up attitude towards women. Happy now?
AJS-DC
About time the democrats grew some balls… where the f were they in the last 8 frakkin’ years, and why are they choosing now to speak up? Acting like the minority party only when they’re in the majority. What a joke.
That One - Cain
The problem here is that they aren’t taking a chapter from the Republican play book. With a wink at the general public, start screaming at the republicans for not having enough faith in America. I mean, aren’t we the greatest country in world? We can’t handle a handful of terrorists in our prisons? Why do you have no faith in your country?
Just start talking shit like that, it’ll turn their faces red.. it’ll be fantastic watching them trying to defend that.
cain
omen
@KCinDC:
wow, she has 3 arms.
Brick Oven Bill
I will remove one brigade per month out of Iraq, er, I will not sign FISA, uhh, I will only accept public campaign funding, ehh, I will not raise taxes on people making less than $250k, er, I will not have lobbyists in my Administration, ummm, I will eliminate earmarks, er, I will not have military commissions, ahh, I will reign in deficit spending, er, I will close Gitmo, umm.
blogenfreude
@asiangrrlMN: Indeed she is. She has, among other things, conclusively demonstrated that Malcolm X is BHO’s father. Seriously.
Jon
@torrentprime: Impressive by Feinstein. I read about that Montana prison, but Baucus objected apparently. They should just charge everyone who’s not cleared of terrorist connections with “conspiracy to provide material support to Al Queda”(a chip shot charge) and just give them 20-30 years each in Federal supermax.
Calouste
@dobrojutro:
“Why is Pam Anderson trying to put a headlock on
the singer from Midnight Oilthe Australian minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts, Peter Garrett MP AM?”The man’s had a minor career change.
Mouse Tolliver
@El Cid:
Some of our leaders think Jack Bauer is a real person. So it wouldn’t surprise me if some of them also believe Gitmo is housing Magneto’s Brotherhood of Mutant Terrorists. The one’s who can use their mutant terrorist superpowers to conjure anthrax tornadoes out of thin air and shoot radioactive laserbeams out of their eyes.
sarah
@J.D. Rhoades: the Death Star is way too vulnerable. encase them in carbonite.
JGabriel
Can’t believe I’m the first to say this but, is it really fair to insult the memory of paleolithic and barbaric people that way?
.
flukebucket
Yep. Meet your meat has turned into beat your meat.
TenguPhule
After the Wookie incident, can you blame them?
torrentprime
@Jon: What makes me so angry is we act like these people are captured T-1000s or something, or possibly Kryptonians. Like the US Military can’t handle a few prisoners safely and securely. I thought the Republicans had more faith in the military than that…
InflatableCommenter
Sorry, no sale on this one. What I see happening here is that the White House badly mishandled the issue with people on the Hill, and the Hill has fired a shot back over the White House. The note taped on the side of the shell says something like “Don’t take us for granted. We asked for a plan and you guys apparently thought you were so popular you didn’t have to work with us on this. Okay, here’s your 90-6 bitchslap. Next time, maybe you’ll listen to us?”
It’s just theater. Why the fuck does everyone act like the US Government was something they just discovered last week? This is pretty standard maneuvering by powerful pols. Get over it. I’m watching from 2500 miles away, but this looks to me a lot like the White House just fucked this up and wasn’t paying attention.
blogenfreude
@sarah: Reid could piss off the voters even more – suggest putting the terrorists in Yucca mountain with the nuclear waste. WIN!
arguingwithsignposts
here’s to the true patriots:
Durbin (D-IL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Reed (D-RI)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
geg6
I tend to believe Digby’s take on this:
This sounds more than a little plausible to me.
SGEW
This reminds me of this classic.
Also: on that particular September morning here in NYC, almost eight years ago (almost eight years ago!), I kept on thinking “Well, now we know that there are no superheroes: only supervillains. The Joker would’ve totally tried that shit, and Batman would’ve totally stopped it.”
Seems like some people really, really internalized that line of thinking.
Jon
@torrentprime: Yeah, its absurd. We’ve held Al Queda members in our jails for years without problems. I would just make sure they’re in isolation so they don’t mix with Aryan Nations brain donors and have a chance to radicalize anyone–which I why I suggest the “material support” charges: they would go automatically to Supermax.
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
@Laura W: Up top, I am only seeing the big hunk of brisket and something about curing my yellow teeth…
InflatableCommenter
Oh, I forgot one thing. Harry Reid is an insufferable prick and I am no longer defending him in his role as Majority Leader. I think he has also mishandled this situation and acted like a petulant child.
Comrade Dread
Actually Feinstein just offered to take them. Maybe they can work out a trade: we’ll house them in exchange for 15 billion dollars.
It’s just amusing that the brave stalwart GWoT warriors are so petrified of the Muslims that they think moving them from Cuba to super max jails here will cause the downfall of Western Civilization.
What a bunch of pussies.
Library Grape
this bullsh*t from the Democrats makes me remember all the reasons I used to hate them. back in my libertarian days, I viewed the Dems and the GOP as equally soulless and corporatist. i sometimes leaned to the GOP because at least they had some balls and effective messaging on a few issues i cared about.
all that of course came crashing down when i realized what feckless incompetent lying as*holes they were.
but really, there are a lot of feckless incompetent lying as*holes in the Democratic Party too, they just dress their as*hole-ness in nicer garments that make people think they actually care about the little people.
it’s not just they are so completely WRONG on the issue of taking the people from Guantanamo and dumping them in Supermax prisons here in the U.S., the big problem i have is that people like Reid are so reflexively spineless anytime a Republican jumps out and yells “BOO! NATIONAL SECURITY!” not to mention that the politics of appearing squishy and feckless by changing course midstream is just horrible politically
methinks the winter of my discontent with the Dems (if it ever comes to pass) will be brought about by spineless douchebiscuits like Harry Reid and this absolute clusterf*ck of principle-free capitulation.
/breath
P.S. i put up a big screed on Harry Reid earlier today on my blog (Harry Reid is a Weak-Kneed Tool) if you’re interested.
jonas
This is just great. Over at TPM, a bunch of congressional staffers whine to Brian Beutler that Obama wasn’t holding their hands enough between the time he announced he was closing Gitmo and now. So when Republican spinmeisters hijacked this issue, Congress wasn’t “ready” and was forced to wet its pants and run around like a bunch of WATBs.
Shorter Senate Democrats: we’re a bunch of children who get easily confused if the President doesn’t tell us what to do.
Library Grape
@jonas: sometimes i really despise these spineless bed-wetters
asiangrrlMN
@Comrade Dread: Montana, too. They have a brand-new maximum-security facility, and they need the jobs. They will take up to a hundred prisoners.
omen
@Davis X. Machina:
along those lines:
“If you’re going to tell the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise they’ll kill you.”
— George Bernard Shaw
Tonal Crow
@Brick Oven Bill:
How about criticizing and mocking the values and principles of wingnuts, the (institutional) Catholic Church, *and* (many forms of) Islam? You know, by saying something like “the only liberties they like are the ones they take with your body against your will.”
BTW, I triple dog dare you to criticize and mock GOPers.
J.D. Rhoades
@asiangrrlMN:
Has anyone figured out just WHY they built such a big jail way the hell and gone out in the wilds of East Bumfuck, Montana? Did the sheriff’s brother have the masonry contract or something?
fisher cat
@geg6: Time will tell, I suppose. One thing I have learned lately is to wait at least 72 hours before rolling out my Jump to Conclusions mat.
kay
@jonas:
That’s how I see it.
It’s interesting, because this is one issue where Obama is on solid constitutional ground with an order, and they’re on solid constituional ground with the purse.
He’s been fairly respectful of the legislative branch role, turn over stimulus to them, etc. I don’t know that they can handle it. They’re rusty. They are never “ready”. Why are they always so poorly prepared?
Reid could have simply said he felt the plan was incomplete and they would release the money when satisfied with the plan. That’s his job. He controls the purse.
Instead, he went out and insisted on legislative input into crafting a DOJ determination, and that’s not his job.
He has enough trouble just getting through a day. Why wade into the details of this?
Tonal Crow
@Lee:
I mean, I can understand no television, but no transvestitism? That’s going too far.
Tonal Crow
I think we can solve this problem by deporting Reid to Gitmo, and moving the terror suspects to Alcatraz.
kay
Reid is already revising. Now he’ll evaluate the Obama plan, although he won’t release money for a plan that lets terrorists “in the streets”. Okey doke.
God, he’s an idiot. He can’t even be a consistent coward. He’s cowardly about sticking to his cowardice.
Why did he give a press conference at all? To make a jackass out of himself?
asiangrrlMN
@J.D. Rhoades: Hm. I never thought of that. Good question. Maybe they had to lay off correctional officers so they can’t run the prison? I dunno, and I’m too lazy to Google it. It’s fucking hot here. I hate it.
Don
Has anyone figured out just WHY they built such a big jail way the hell and gone out in the wilds of East Bumfuck, Montana?
Because prisons are big business and our government has shown a willingness to put prisoners hundred of miles away from their loved ones and homes, no matter what sort of negative impact that might have on recidivism.
I’d find links for that but it’s too depressing. The prison business is easy to find support for; the Washington Post ran an article last year about prisoners – federal in particular – being housed great distances away from their homes.
Cris
Not sure how this is on topic, but okay. Islam sucks. It’s more rule-bound than Hasidism and more unforgiving than the Salem witch trials. Its doctrine considers the prophet to be the end of history, consigning the faithful to choose between stagnation and apostasy. It treats women like shit because it considers men to be incapable of self control.
Now what?
kay
@Cris:
It’s the stupid compare game. If one church does something despicable, you can’t mention it without a boring recital of all churches despicable acts through history.
Because then it’s “fair”. Or something.
Cris
It’s a PETA ad. It showed up on Pandagon for a while. Attracting eyeballs with cheesecake is PETA’s new MO, for some reason.
The Grand Panjandrum
This won’t make a spit worth of difference to the President and when he closes Gitmo. The DOD has enough fungible money in its budget to fund it out of current or future funding if they chose to do so. This was posturing by the war criminal butt boy Mitch McConnell bitching about releasing terrorists into our midst.
But looking on the bright side they stripped money to have the police take all our guns and the money that was part of the Arugula Farming Incentive program!
What I find shocking is that Bernie Sanders voted yes. Jesus I am going to have to look into this. Bernie doesn’t give a flying fuck about all the fearmongering so something else must be at play here and we aren’t getting the entire story yet.
omen
what’s the difference between palin and muslim fundamentalists?
via juan cole:
the values of his handpicked running mate, Sarah Palin, more resemble those of Muslim fundamentalists than they do those of the Founding Fathers. On censorship, the teaching of creationism in schools, reproductive rights, attributing government policy to God’s will and climate change, Palin agrees with Hamas and Saudi Arabia rather than supporting tolerance and democratic precepts. What is the difference between Palin and a Muslim fundamentalist? Lipstick.
[…]
The GOP vice-presidential pick holds that abortion should be illegal, even in cases of rape, incest or severe birth defects, making an exception only if the life of the mother is in danger. She calls abortion an “atrocity” and pledges to reshape the judiciary to fight it. Ironically, Palin’s views on the matter are to the right of those in the Muslim country of Tunisia, which allows abortion in the first trimester for a wide range of reasons. Classical Muslim jurisprudents differed among one another on the issue of abortion, but many permitted it before the “quickening” of the fetus, i.e. until the end of the fourth month. Contemporary Muslim fundamentalists, however, generally oppose abortion.
jonas
@kay: I think that’s right. The problem isn’t that Congress is exercising oversight here. That’s what they’re supposed to do. If Congress didn’t think DOJ had all its ducks in a row on this, then say so. But what they did instead is put Reid up there in front of the cameras saying that they were holding up the money because they were afraid the Obama plan would have terrorists running around free on American soil. That is total bullshit douchebaggery. Why not just give Hannity the blowjob and get it over with.
omen
:(
figures, my one good point and i get stuck in moderation.
Legalize
Kay is mostly right. Criticizing anything that results in anything that vaguely hurts the feelings of wingers must be coupled with an even more harsh condemnation of all things related to brown people and their heathen ways. Otherwise you are being “biased,” likely “anti-semetic” and traveling with an “agenda.” In other words, wingers have found an invincible way of never having to answer for the evil they advocate, literally: “someone, somewhere did something worse.”
Cris
Holy crap, this is just beautiful:
JFC.
arguingwithsignposts
@jonas:
Indeed, and amen. If they had a majority leader with a spine, maybe that wouldn’t be the case.
Does anyone imagine Obama in the Oval Office shaking his head and saying, “I have to deal with these numbskulls?”
Laura W
@Gordon, The Big Express Engine:
God loves me more than S/He loves you, obviously.
Edit: Excellent Dread!
The Moar You Know
For 15 billion dollars I’ll house them personally, and believe me, they won’t be going anywhere.
Comrade Dread
Bonus question: If we replaced Harry Reid with an easily excitable ferret, would anyone notice?
Cris
PETA might.
TenguPhule
Yes, the ferret would display more energy and attack Republicans in addition to Democrats.
TenguPhule
For $7 billion dollars I’d house them and not violate Geneva Conventions in doing so.
Hell, I’d throw in free healthcare to help them over the worst of Gitmo too.
omen
sorry, mockery comes with the territory.
chuck
Dear Republican Party:
You can have Nevada. Please throw Reid a nice going away party in appreciation of all that he’s done for you.
Seriously, I would live with losing a seat if it meant someone with a spine could step up. Our luck we’d probably end up with Specter.
Punchy
Yo Cole! What’s my UID here? Peeps at DKos all got their diapers in a wad over bannings and UIDs, so I thought I’d request mine now should I need to exercise some muscle around here.
TIA, bitches.
Brick Oven Bill
This is an off-topic comment. It is a quiet Wednesday in the high desert compound, waiting for the government person to comment on my proposal to come to an agreement on an issue on which reasonable persons could disagree. There is a C-130 circling in the sky. This could be the Air National Guard doing training.
Or perhaps it is Janet Napolitano in a gunship. If there are accounts of an armed extremist compound getting blown up on the news tonight, or if you never hear from me again, then you will know it was Janet.
Old Gringo
IUDs?
Are they safe? oh, wait, those are IEDs.
chuck
@torrentprime:
Not without torturing them, it would appear.
Jeff
I was going to comment on this but I see that torrentpine @ 48 already has.
.
I see that Boxer, Stabenow, Schumer and Sanders also voted “Yea”. The amendment seems pretty straight-forward: To prohibit funding to transfer, release, or incarcerate detainees detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to or within the United States.. The 4 Sens I listed don’t have a pattern of being afraid of anyone, so I think that many of the Dems are being accurate when they say “Plan first, Money after — see also: TARP”.
kay
@Legalize:
I just watched it happen. Hysterical.
Glen Beck got caught in an embarrassing bold-faced lie on the View, and he IMMEDIATELY screeched “Nancy Pelosi!”.
That horrid blonde parroted it. “Nancy Pelosi!” It was nearly simultaneous. The two don’t even know each other. They know this: get caught in a lie? Scream Nancy Pelosi!
Imagine dealing with them, on a regular basis, I mean, in some real-world way. You couldn’t. You’d have to run away, screaming.
You’d say “why did you just kick me in the shins?” and they’d say “Nancy Pelosi kicks people in the shins!”
Laura W
@Punchy: This sounds like something I should pretend to care about. Can you give the cliff notes or point to the place on Kos where I can learn more? Or just tell me how to feel about the issue? That’s really why I hang out here, anyway.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
@Cris:
Sweet jabbering Jeebus, please tell me he didn’t say that.
I’m with Grand Panjandrum above, however: if Bernie Sanders voted against it, something must be up.
TenguPhule
Freedom Medals all around.
Laura W
@kay:
I seem to have tuned into that infuriating spectacle every morning of this week around 8am, “just to see” (What, Laura – what are you hoping to see? Larry O’D maybe?) Every single time, to the best of my pre-caffinated memory, Blow is yakking up faux-outrage about Pelosi and the CIA. EVERY DAMN MORNING. The horrid blonde parrot smiling, nodding, and turning profile to the camera. God Bless JenJen for watching the other three hours so I don’t have to.
dobrojutro
@Calouste – Thanks for the update. I’m willing to bet that to most Australians, Fred Grandy is gopher – not former representative from Iowa. Peter Formersingerofmidniteoil also looks alot like the scary dude from “The Hills Have Eyes”. It was easier to reference the singer fella.
I need to update my bald-guy references.
Old Gringo
This probably makes some sense in a technical and legalistic way. Technically, they are not incarcerated now by law. They are just being detained, without due process, and in a sort of legal limbo. They cannot just be thrown into an American prison without some due process. IANAL but I play one on the internets. I think Kafka would get it.
TenguPhule
Hell, we need an open thread.
Preferably Discworld themed, but pictures of the Cole Dogs will do too.
Old Gringo
And let me just say that 60 putative Democratic votes just means, to me at least, that at least 60 people in the Senate will not step on the gas and drive us off the precipice we were headed for when the Republicans controlled the House,Senate and the Executive branch. That does matter, to me at least. I was never under any illusion that we were about to do a 180 and speed in the opposite direction. We were just jamming on the brakes and slowing down.
InflatableCommenter
@Brick Oven Bill:
No offense, but if it is Janet circling in a C-130, I hope she blows your racist ass into three states.
Dennis-SGMM
@Jeff:
See also “War Powers Resolution”.
Laura W
@TenguPhule:
I agree. I’m very afraid John finally went full-on Galt, and now I will really be sorry for mocking him for always crying “Galt” yet never following through.
He showed us!
srv
Hey cleek, you have a grease monkey script for teeth whitening ads?
binzinerator
@4tehlulz:
Holy shit even Feingold voted for it. WTF is up with that?
Dennis-SGMM
@binzinerator:
Only Monty Python can answer that:
omen
@The Grand Panjandrum:
This won’t make a spit worth of difference to the President and when he closes Gitmo. The DOD has enough fungible money in its budget
that makes sense. i seem to have a hazy memory of bush doing an end run around congress when they balked at funding one of his pet projects. couldn’t remember the specifics of how he did so.
GregB
Sweet jabbering Jesus, Harry Reid is a pathetic stooge. Then again, I heard Vietnam veteran Jim Webb parroting this same weak and pathetic line.
It’s just plain stupid.
-G
Calouste
@dobrojutro:
It was just to make Americans less embarrassed now they know that they are not the only country in the world to elect former entertainers to national office ;-)
kay
@Laura W:
I have been checking in too, although I watch for a week, get sick, and swear off.
If you get a chance, watch the View clip of Beck. There’s something interesting going on between Glen Beck and Whoopi Goldberg- body language.
He’s scared of her.
Brick Oven Bill
Re: “No offense, but if it is Janet circling in a C-130, I hope she blows your racist ass into three states.”
Wow. All the Catholic Church-1600s did to Galileo was place him under house arrest. Personally I believe Mayan Indians are shorter in stature than Cree Indians because they evolved in a dense forest, and those Mayans of tall stature found it harder to survive and propagate themselves.
Guards!
Shalimar
Many of us have? Republicans are destroying Tim Pawlenty’s local popularity to keep Franken from making it 60, so they are at the top of that list. Of course, they are also clearly insane so I guess that proves your point.
Fulcanelli
@arguingwithsignposts: Damn. Both my Senators sided with the White House! We should get extra stimulus money. Or something.
My guy Sen. Whitehouse is greasing the skids with Obama in the hopes he’ll give the green light on a full blown Torture Investigation. I’d bet on it… That’s how we roll here in RI, bitches. Sen. Reed, he’s along for the ride to atone for his past sins enabling the Banks and Credit Card companies.
I’m happy with Whitehouse’s performance so far, but I’m sure he’ll hump my leg eventually and piss me off. Sigh.
Let’s go thump on some sadistic, child-abusing priests to blow off some steam. Who’s in?
Laura W
@kay:
Lemme guess before I even watch the clip because I’m psychic that way: She’s a powerful, opinionated, outspoken, intelligent, informed, take-no-shit black woman and he wets himself a little to be in the same room?
Ahhh…NBC News doing a segment on Vick’s fight dogs now living at Best Friends in Utah and with other rescue groups they’ve gone to after rehab. I spent a couple nights and days at Best Friends in 1995 when I did a long, solitary road trip from Monterey, CA to SW New Mexico to see if I wanted to relocate. How far Best Friends has come since then. (Me too.)
Dennis-SGMM
@Brick Oven Bill:
It placed him under house arrest for life. In a time when there was neither electrical nor electronic communication this was a huge sentence. At his death he was still under house arrest. Moreover, the church forbade the publication of any of his works.
KCinDC
Shalimar is right. The only people who are going on about something magical happening when there are 60 Democrats in the Senate are Republican spreading their garbage and the MSM faithfully picking it up and broadcasting it.
I’d say the vast majority of the folks here understand that the difference between having 59 Democrats and having 60 is about the same as the difference between having 58 and having 59, or between having 60 and having 61. Every additional Democrat is an improvement, but there’s no magic line where things suddenly change, because every vote is different.
Shawn in ShowMe
@geg6
Thanks for pointing out Digby’s take on this. Is she the only one trying to figure the calculus behind this or is everyone else in full snark/outrage mode?
Brick Oven Bill
This is true Dennis, and the Catholic Church did not have AC-130 gunships back then to blow him up either. But you would have thought they could have at least drawn and quartered him for heresy. The Catholic Church did have horses, I believe.
Or they could have burned him. They burned de Molay.
Comrade Darkness
@Brick Oven Bill: Only if I can start out with a treatise mocking the silly political power reason they split into sunni and shia first. They’ve spent more energy fighting themselves than anyone else. Further evidence that g-d has a fantastic sense of humor if s/he exists at all.
The trouble with your double dog dare is, generally speaking, blunt insults and criticism from those who grew up in a particular religion like catholicism (raises hand) have close relatives who are married, literally to the mother church (again raises hand) spent time as an altar boy (again raises hand) have far more leeway for commentary about that religion than some other random one, for which we would simply be talking out our asses.
TheHatOnMyCat
What does Galileo have to do with your racist birth certificate bullshit, amigo?
Your whole schtick amounts to “Who does this ni**er think he is, trying to be president without showing me his birth certificate?”
Amirite?
Galileo? Try to stay on topic, bud.
Brick Oven Bill
Personally I believe that ‘religion’, or ‘spirituality’ is a part of all of us, and can be used for good or evil purposes. This makes sense as religion or spirituality unifies like very little else. Unified groups of people would be much more likely to survive bad times in human history than loners, ‘Unite or Die’ and all that.
If religion or spirituality is the result of evolutionary forces, then it would be tailored for the environment in which it originated. This would explain why American Indians worship natural spirits (they were outside a lot), nomadic Arabs would have given rise to a more warlike religion, and pastoral societies would develop a religion that was more benign and unifying.
I know that Christianity has not always been benign and unifying. It has many times been used as a tool of man, but the teachings are tame relative to other ancient texts.
TheHatOnMyCat
@binzinerator:
Well ….
@InflatableCommenter:
Maus
Have we considered that this is an extension of the stupid and entirely false “we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here” stance?
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Fix’t.
You know a site is full of inflated
egosassholes when the banning/GBCW pie fights get more action than the important issues of the day. I like to read Kos but lately much of what is covered is bullshit whining about this issue or that issue. Rating comments, the TU bullshit, the cliques who run around jacking the recommended diaries list and attacking other cliques, disappearing comments, all of that crap and more makes Kos a shithole to wallow in at times.Laura W
@Brick Oven Bill: Now see, Bill. This is why I continue to hang with you when others turn away.
I just know you are teetering on that precipice and about to come on over to the Sunny Side of the Street any day now.
Know Hope!
TenguPhule
Epic fail.
Study your religions more.
arguingwithsignposts
@Fulcanelli:
So did one of mine. The other one is apparently still keeping O’s former seat warm for the next real senator.
Maus
How do you feel about conservative politics co-opting and *defining* spirituality, rather than letting it define them?
Hart Williams
Gee. I dunno.
The current Democratic leadership has only been in Congress during that long night of being back-stabbed, bullied and swift-boated — ofttimes by their own people (who NEVER seem to have their backs.)
I “get” why they’re a bunch of ‘fraidy cats.
What I don’t get is how the uber-dumbass Republican phony macho, pseudo-testosterone bluster turns into puling, wet-their-pants, pussy-wussy, shrieking, gibbering, drooling cowardice at the drop of a hat (or a World Trade Center).
Either way, the craven gutlessness of the American politician and the American pundit (excepting, of course, the bat-shit crazy psychotics like Malkin, Coulter, et al) has become so ubiquitous that there is (seemingly) no solution in sight.
Ohhhh, scary terrorists! (Many of whom are innocent). Scary SCARY terrorists!
(I’ll give you a moment to mop up the piss that’s soiled your chair and dripped onto the floor.)
Somehow, the specter of having them in US prisons (on what? SACRED US soil?) exponentially increases the need for rubber sheets amongst the bloviating class.
Frankly, it’s pathetic, embarrassing and probably hopeless. History will laugh in our faces for having come to this, but we’ve now instituted invertibrates as our political animal role model. (Not to worry, 98% of all animal species are invertibrates. We’re just going with the flow.)
Generation Xanax.
So, let’s just face reality, bite the bullet, and emend Francis Scott Key’s verse and be done with it:
(Might need to add a measure or two to the Anacreontic Song).
Feh. Ptui.
Posted by: Hart Williams on May 20, 2009 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK
geg6
BOB, I’ll give you one. Religion can be a unifying force. Unfortunately, the main sort of unifying that I’ve seen religion accomplish seems to happen in two ways. First, a bunch of closed-minded authoritarians decide god talks only to them and they then spend vast amounts of time and money bullying everyone else to accept their version of how the world should be and demonizing, vilifying, and often killing anyone who doesn’t get with the program. Or a bunch of people who prefer to think for ourselves, use rationality in viewing the world, and want to not be subjected to other’s faith or beliefs decide to speak up and act collectively to push back against the religionists. So yeah. Religion unites.
Dulcie
@kay: Hahaha! That’s because Whoopie is a “scary” negress ;-)
Bill Arnold
Re “…mock the values…”
Fafblog did a piece a few years back, including a stick figure “NOT MOHAMMED” but it totally could be and you’d never know!’
(I’d be curious to see an opinion from a Muslim about whether this piece was in any serious way sacrilegious.)
The Raven
Who were the six? I think I want to write them thank-yous.
Johnny Pez
I was thinking recently that it was time to take the Whitehouse for Senate sticker off my car, but damn me if I haven’t changed my mind.
jill
Oh please, they want a plan? They don’t want them in the USA. They can spin it as needing a concrete plan, but after Reid ran his mouth about us not releasing them (even to relocate them, because that’s totally releasing them) it’s hard to see this as any way but cowardly. It’s not like it’s a massive amount of money the WH was asking for either. Obama can’t do everything. They can’t figure it out themselves?
Comrade Darkness
Given how small amount of money it is, and that Obama can take it out of general funds controlled by the administration, is this just a chance to separate the men from the boys in congress?
Mr Furious
So, Harry, where the fuck are we supposed to put them? In the Phantom Zone (flying record album) with General Zod?
Reid is worthless.
I’m not asking for a GOP-style purity test for Democrats, but if you are a jackass who is continually try to outflank your own party on the right to get reelected to your red state seat, you don’t fucking get to be Leader and face of the caucus.
Period.
oh really
The Congressional Democrats are already as worthless as the Republicans, they just aren’t all totally insane, soulless monsters. The fact that Senate Democrats choose to be “led” by Harry Reid is all the evidence anyone should need that nothing much is going to get accomplished, that what does get accomplished will usually be a tiny fraction of what needs to be done, and on many issues the Democrats are every bit as corrupt as the Republicans are.
There is a significant segment of the American population that wants a single payer health care system. However, such as system isn’t even being considered by representatives who are well paid (not counting all the corruption) and have excellent health care coverage that is out of reach of most of their constituents. Their motto seems to be “If it’s good enough for me, it’s too good for you.”
Democrats are already worthless, but Republicans are flat-out insane and dangerous in too many ways to count.
If one looks at the Senate discussion about closing Gitmo, the level of stupidity is beyond human comprehension — from both sides of the aisle.
I’ve always been opposed to term limits, because experience should be a valuable asset. Unfortunately, in our present system being in office for very long virtually guarantees that senators and representatives will be thoroughly poisoned by the system. Many had very little integrity to begin with; those who had some, generally lose it quickly.
Person of Choler
Why is everybody so hung up on putting the detainees in American prisons?
Are not most of them unfortunate trekkers and Boy Scout campers who were unlucky enough to fall into the net of evil cast by the Bush / Cheney conspiracy to enslave the world? Certainly, given a fair trial, the innocent detainees will be released and compensated for the years of torture and privation they endured. The liberated ones will become valued members of our diverse communities.
And for the guilty who won’t be turned loose, why can’t they stay in Guantanamo?
CalD
Maybe we could cut a deal with the Cubans to take them. It’s their island, try them under Cuban law. I’d almost bet Havana might be talked into doing it in exchange for us getting our troops the hell off their land.
brantl
I hope people are still reading this, because I would like to go into what a tactical epic fail this was for Reid. If they gave Obama the money, then anything that he decided would have been only a hit to his popularity, and he can easily afford it. Now, when Congress OKs the plan for these captives to go into their jurisdictions, and the reasons/conditions under which they are detained, they are individually going to be screwed. What a bunch of dopes.