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You are here: Home / Politics / Torture / Darkness Christmas at Noon

Darkness Christmas at Noon

by Tim F|  May 21, 20099:16 pm| 21 Comments

This post is in: Torture, Democratic Stupidity

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Here’s a fun thought: imagine that you run a quasi-legal dictatorship, say, Burma or Uzbekistan. Naturally you’d love to jail and torture* those pesky dissidents, foreign spies, people who might be foreign spies, nose whistlers and hotel clerks who slighted your cousin. Hang ’em from the ceiling for a few days and they’ll confess to making the weather cloudy.

How awesome is it if America says that first world countries do that too? If you are one of those regimes it’s like a whole new day.

(*) Obama says that he won’t let Americans torture. That’s nice. Bush said that too. Obama could, of course, change his mind without any apparent consequences. Maybe he really needs to torture just this one guy. Maybe the next President will decide that yeah, he kind of would like to torture people. Better lawyers than me can explain what will compel Jeb or Bobby Jindal to respect a law that has no criminal consequences.

***Update***

The Onion.

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Reader Interactions

21Comments

  1. 1.

    soonergrunt

    May 21, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Naturally you’d love to jail and torture* those pesky dissidents, foreign spies, people who might be foreign spies, nose whistlers and hotel clerks who slighted your cousin.

    Add in people who talk or text during the movie and I’m there!

  2. 2.

    joe from Lowell

    May 21, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Obama says that he won’t let Americans torture. That’s nice. Bush said that too.

    Bush’s White House issued orders to have people tortured.

    Obama’s White House issued Executive Orders forbidding the use of any interrogation techniques that violate the Geneva Conventions, the Convention Against Torture, or federal torture laws, and explicitly forbade exactly those torture practices Bush engaged in.

    So, yeah, six of one…

    Are you KIDDING me with this crap?

  3. 3.

    JGabriel

    May 21, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    Tim F. at Top:

    Naturally you’d love to jail and torture* those pesky dissidents…

    There’s a part of me that wants to say, “Only the Republicans … ” because, after the last 30 years, really, they deserve the abuse, but the truth is I can’t imagine wanting to torture anyone. It’s just a sick, twisted thing to do.

    And if that’s what separates me from Republicans, I guess I can live with it.

    Also? Kind of agreeing with Joe from Lowell on the whole “Six of one…” point above.

    .

  4. 4.

    Wilson Heath

    May 21, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    A law with no consequences is not a law but a platitude.

  5. 5.

    Linkmeister

    May 21, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    I’m inclined to agree with Tim’s sentiments in the post, but I also want to commend him for the wordplay in the title.

    “Darkness at Noon” is a horrifying book.

  6. 6.

    asiangrrlMN

    May 21, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    I think the point is that we need it explicitly in…oh, fuck. We have it specifically in the laws. Never mind. Keep walking, folks. Nothing to see here.

  7. 7.

    Martin

    May 21, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Are you KIDDING me with this crap?

    I agree. Bush I didn’t torture. Reagan didn’t. Ford. Ike. I’m not even willing to assume that the next Republican is going to torture yet we’re going to hang that around Obama’s neck at this point?

    Are we dismissing every word that Obama said and only treating Pat Buchanan as a credible voice out there?

  8. 8.

    Bob In Pacifica

    May 21, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    When such events as this happen, and logic fails you, you need to go to a conspiracy theory. Here’s mine.

    Change that most people refuse to believe happened. But it explains why Obama is not doing what he is not doing.

  9. 9.

    peaches

    May 22, 2009 at 12:19 am

    John is holier than thow now, but look at the pure crap he spewed wrt John Walker Lindh to understand where this post comes from.

    Pretty pictures of pets and flirting with commenters (a la Althouse) doesn’t quite make it.

    Cole is still a Republican at heart — or maybe a libertarian.

    It’s funny how someone cqn change so quickly :p

  10. 10.

    peaches

    May 22, 2009 at 12:35 am

    “Obama says that he won’t let Americans torture. That’s nice. Bush said that too. Obama could, of course, change his mind without any apparent consequences. ”

    Like you. It ‘s complete projection now.

    Did you believe it when Bush said it?

  11. 11.

    Redshift

    May 22, 2009 at 12:42 am

    joe — I think you’re over-reading. The point isn’t that there’s no difference between Bush and Obama, the point is that if our laws against torture are not enforced because it is politically inconvenient, then the statement “America does not torture” is false, the truth is that whether America tortures is at the whim of each president. That is the precedent that will be set if we accept that an executive order is enough to put a stop to this.

  12. 12.

    Sophist

    May 22, 2009 at 12:46 am

    I agree. Bush I didn’t torture. Reagan didn’t. Ford. Ike. I’m not even willing to assume that the next Republican is going to torture yet we’re going to hang that around Obama’s neck at this point?
    Are we dismissing every word that Obama said and only treating Pat Buchanan as a credible voice out there

    I think the point is not that Obama is particularly likely to torture anyone. He says that his government will not torture, and I believe him. The point is that we shouldn’t have to trust him. Our only assurance that people aren’t having their fingernail pulled out in our name shouldn’t be that the President is a good guy. There need to be consequences, so that if someone who isn’t a good person is ever in the position to torture, there will be something to give them pause.

  13. 13.

    Nellcote

    May 22, 2009 at 3:55 am

    But isn’t it up to the congress to investigate and recommend to the DoJ if there is evidence of a crime? Why is this all on the Prez? They don’t need his permission.

  14. 14.

    wolfetone

    May 22, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Funny how a bunch of you didn’t bother to notice that it was Tim who posted this, not John. So the comments about John’s politics are rather dumb–and they would be even if John had written this.

    Tim’s points are good ones that deserves serious consideration, not knee-jerk defensiveness.

    And for all of you who are so sure that the first Bush, or Reagan, or whoever didn’t institute policies that amount to torture, how do you know this to be true? We do know that the Reagan administration supported rightwing death squads all over South America, which seems to me to be about the same thing if not worse. Rendition was practiced during Clinton’s tenure.

  15. 15.

    Stefan

    May 22, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Obama’s White House issued Executive Orders forbidding the use of any interrogation techniques that violate the Geneva Conventions, the Convention Against Torture, or federal torture laws, and explicitly forbade exactly those torture practices Bush engaged in.

    And the next president can issue an Executive Order rescinding Obama’s Executive Order and can torture on his merry way, knowing full well we don’t prosecute people for that in this country anymore.

  16. 16.

    Stefan

    May 22, 2009 at 10:24 am

    But isn’t it up to the congress to investigate and recommend to the DoJ if there is evidence of a crime?

    No, that’s not Congress’ job. The Dept. of Justice doesn’t need Congress to tell it there’s evidence of a crime. They know it already.

  17. 17.

    omen

    May 22, 2009 at 10:55 am

    Obama says that he won’t let Americans torture. That’s nice. Bush said that too. Obama could, of course, change his mind without any apparent consequences.

    that’s nice. an preemptive judgement of guilt without evidence and before it happens. if you’re so sure obama’s going to be a torturer, why bother waiting? why not call for impeachment right now? not to do so makes you complicit.

  18. 18.

    omen

    May 22, 2009 at 11:03 am

    ***Update***
    The Onion.

    has this page covered what happened to al-libi?

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. Sometimes the only way to say it is through satire « tangents and digressions says:
    May 22, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    […] (Danke: Tim F.) […]

  2. What about our own future? « Later On says:
    May 22, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    […] in Daily life, Government, Obama administration at 1:19 pm by LeisureGuy Tim F. at Balloon Juice: Here’s a fun thought: imagine that you run a quasi-legal dictatorship, say, Burma or Uzbekistan. […]

  3. First It Giveth « The United States of Jamerica says:
    May 22, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    […] It Giveth 2009 May 22 tags: Executive Power, president obama by Jamelle Tim F. at Balloon Juice hits on the most problematic aspect of the executive power status quo; namely, that what Obama […]

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