Haven’t read the President’s speech yet, but I do find it kind of amazing that Cheney is offering up a national security speech. It is just weird to have a former VP out there openly sabotaging a new administration, and make no mistake about it, that is what Cheney is doing. He is openly attempting to damage or deny this current administration’s ability to craft national security policy. Republicans have a funny way of showing patriotism, I guess.
But what is really weird is that they seem to have just given up any pretense that Bush was anything other than an empty suit. Between Dick’s multiple pronouncements, his really odd response on MTP in which he said “I guess the President had been briefed,” and stunts like this speech today, Cheney is basically telling you who the HMFIC for the last eight years was, and he wasn’t a legacy frat boy from Connecticut.
Not that anyone ever suspected any less.
Fwiffo
Could you imagine the hissy fit that would have been thrown if Al Gore had gone on TV in, say, early 2002 trashing Bush’s national security strategy?
r€nato
Cheney is a vindictive, nasty piece of shit. Proof that there is no ‘just’ God: a wonderful soul like Wayman Tisdale dies at 44, while this vile waste of skin is still around, even with a bad ticker.
Almost makes me wish there really was a Hell.
r€nato
I really hope that Cheney talks himself into a torture investigation and prosecution.
Democrats better grow a fucking pair. The GOP is not going to go down gracefully. Not like Al Gore did when the Supreme Court stole the presidency from him.
Jon
Cheney walked right into the trap. Obama couldn’t have scripted that any better. You don’t follow up a speech talking about fear-mongering was used to justify outrages that are coming to an end with the same fear-mongering that he was criticizing.
JenJen
I haven’t heard either speech yet. Of course, our Awesome Liberal Media is loving every moment of it. This morning, they were going apeshit billing today’s speeches as “events” and “Dueling Speeches.” Willie Geist on Morning Joe even got a snicker out of me when he said, “It’s like they’re battle-rapping. It’s going to be like the final scene in ‘Eight Mile.'”
I notice that the wingnuts keep insisting Al Gore behaved in precisely the manner Dick Cheney is behaving, which is just patently false. I do remember Gore giving a few passionate anti-war speeches, but we were well, well into the Bush Years by the time he went public with his views, and I don’t recall him going on Fox News or Face The Nation at every possible opportunity just to shred the President.
I’m not sure what gives with Cheney, but I think in addition to dropping all pretenses that Bush was in charge of national security, it seems as though he’s trying to set up, in advance, a way to attack President Obama in the event of another terrorist attack on US soil. It makes one wonder what, exactly, Cheney still knows.
At any rate, I have a feeling the Obama Administration doesn’t mind Cheney one bit… we’re talking about a guy with a 13 to 20 percent approval rating, and if he’s constantly in our faces, doesn’t it follow that he is helping the current administration by reminding Americans exactly why we chose Barack Obama over four more years of Republican “values”?
schrodinger's cat
What are Cheney’s motives for doing this. His taking the center stage in defense of torture, just makes the possibility of investigations greater. I don’t get it.
InflatableCommenter
I sat through the second, Cheney, speech, just slack jawed at the lies, the manipulations, and the hubris of this guy. I wasn’t exactly a Cheney fan before I heard the speech, but even for him, this was over the top.
I do not agree that the Cheney administration kept America safe. First, they ignored the intel before 911 and took no action to prevent that attack. Then, they ginned up a useless war on the basis of a fear reaction to 911, and set up a flypaper scenario in Iraq which attracted the terrorist activity to our troops and Iraqi civilians, and now call that “keeping America safe.” What a crock.
As a Dem, I have to like having Cheney and Gingrich out there taking the point for the opposition. As a citizen, those two make me sick.
dmsilev
@Fwiffo:
We don’t have to imagine. When *anybody* hinted at mild criticism of Bush back then, the reaction from the Republican party and much of the media was roughly what you’d expect to get from proposing National Puppy-Killing Day.
-dms
TR
Joe Klein has it right:
SpotWeld
The Republicans… fear rules thier world.
The more I think about it, the more it seems thier actions are motivated by fear. (Not actual threats.. the fear of those threats)
Aaron
This seems to be, as far as I recall, unprecedented. I wonder how many people will call him unpatriotic for not supporting a war-president’s policies? Bill O should tell him to shut up
JL
Cheney is protesting to much. I get the feeling that we are going to hear a lot more about the torture policies of the Bush administration.
Obama’s speech was intelligent and he gave a logical approach to problems facing us. He did mention that he took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the US and so did congress.
r€nato
Remember ‘Country First’?
This is one of the reasons I’ve been against the GOP since I was old enough to have a political consciousness: the naked, in-your-face hypocrisy. Al Gore put country first even though the conservative Supreme Court stole the presidency from him. Can you imagine Bush/Cheney putting the country first like that had the shoe been on their foot?
And then of course there’s Norm Coleman, who is content to cynically use the legal system to deny Minnesota their rightful representation in the Senate by Al Franken.
Then you’ve got the endless ‘get the government off your back’ cries from the GOP… and when they get elected, they put the government in your bedroom and in your uterus and let big business run wild and do whatever it wants.
fuck the GOP. fuck them in the ass with a rusty chainsaw. I’m all for a responsible conservative party; the GOP is not responsible.
Michael
“Jericho” is not just a scripted series…..
Ash Can
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I agree that he’s out to do whatever he can to sabotage the Obama Administration, and I hate seeing him get the public platform to do it. On the other hand, though, each time he opens his mouth on camera, he makes it more obvious what he is and what he’s up to. Given the stunning obtuseness of the corporate media in general, it’ll take a while yet before the narrative of Cheney as a war criminal and traitorous prick gets built up to the point of general acceptance. But if Cheney keeps being a schmuck in public, over and over again, it could happen.
Zifnab
He’ll be a glorified empty suit by the end of 2010. Regan Redux. Dick Cheney ran that game 28 years ago and he knows the drill. You’ve got your Messiah figure head to point at and venerate. And then you’ve got your evangelical holy men walking among the unclean and spreading the good word.
Cheney is playing the Evangelical, puffing up his old failed policies. Bush will come back in an election cycle or two as the uncriticizeable symbol of True Conservatism. And we’ll be back to 8 year olds praying to his card board cut out and pictures of Dear Leader in the windows of the true believers.
:-p
Rey
Our President’s speech was elegant, smart and reminded Americans that terrorism will be something that will not end in the near future but, under his watch we will combat Al-Q and he will follow the rule of law. Cheney: “9-11, 9-11, 9-11, 9-11, OMFG I was in a bunker under the Whitehouse on 9-11 and was scared [email protected]#$less- the NYT sucks, liberals are stupid, and btw 9-11, 9-11, etc.,” I’m sure the MSM will say Cheney won.
InflatableCommenter
@r€nato:
Great post. However, I am not letting the government anywhere near my uterus.
{ frowns }
TenguPhule
This is the double down all or nothing hail mary pass.
Basically, Cheney is trying to convince enough of the public that torture is just a partisan issue.
If he wins, he goes free and the country if fucked.
If he loses, we get to piss on his grave and do the conga line.
JenJen
@Michael: You know, I was actually going to say something about “The Jericho Scenario” but figured people would just think, “what the hell is she talking about?”
Notice how on the show, they even made sure the supposed perpetrator resembled Cheney? Yikes…
Michael
The denials of the megalomaniac.
We saw it with the Goering trial, we saw it in the Milosevic trial, we saw it in the Ceaucescu rants, we saw it in Saddam’s trial.
Once the crimes hit the public eye and they’re out of power, they’re desperate to defend the indefensible and salvage their egos.
MattF
It make a kind of sense for Cheney to defend torture, Gitmo, and so forth… after all, these were his policies, and are now his legacy to the nation. I’m quite sure that ol’ George didn’t (and doesn’t) have anything to say about it.
CatStaff
@Michael: I’ve thought that myself, Michael. After all the years he’s slimed around Washington, I’m sure he’s still got his blood-encrusted fingers in lots of pies.
Old Gringo
Cheney is a skilled political knife fighter.
He’s Machiavelli’s Man. He’s got mad Machiavellian skillz.
kay
@InflatableCommenter:
Dick Cheney can’t “keep America safe”. The whole premise is ridiculous.
No one in their right mind guarantees “safe” in a free country. There’s risk inherent in the idea itself. It’s silly campaign stuff.
That this slogan has been adopted like “safety” was a founding principle is obscene.
MikeJ
Politics stops at the water’s edge. At least that’s what they always said if we disagreed with Bush.
Michael
Ruthless heartless corporate official willing to kill indiscriminately for his “vision”? Check.
Wyoming as the nexus? Check.
Looks like Cheney? Check.
Decides like Cheney? Check.
InflatableCommenter
Cheney today:
Just in case there was any doubt about what his speech was for.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
I just wish Cheney threw this in there:
“You know it’s real. You can see it, and you can feel it. This change, my friends, is being delivered in a teabag. And that’s a wonderful thing.”
Every Republican speech from now on should include that line.
schrodinger's cat
Shorter Cheney:
I iz on Ur TeeVee
Scaring Ur children
JenJen
@Michael: Hey! I hadn’t thought of that before… the “Cheyenne Government” were the bad guys, and the “Columbus Government” were the good guys, right?
And the President of the Cheyenne Government was unelected.. sounds familiar… and of course Ravenwood = Blackwater, and so on, and so on…
Now we just need a guy like Hawkins to flip a dime and show the world the smoking gun, eh? Sigh… I miss Jericho, I really do. There was so much more we were supposed to find out.
Old Gringo
It has been a long time since that was true. Foreign policy and national security became a political football under Bush Cheney Rove.
Scoop Jackson: “In matters of national security, the best politics is no politics.”
NonyNony
@Zifnab:
I’d worry about this being true, but even on his best days Bush was no Reagan. Reagan had the personality to get away with the crap he pulled – people actually liked him. He was a mediocre actor, but that’s good enough to fake sincerity and honesty. And he gave a few memorable uplifting speeches. Most importantly he came into office when things were at a low point and left office with things looking better for most people than they were when he went in. AND he had a fanatical following that he carefully cultivated in the 70s that just kept on going well into the 90s.
Bush has none of that. He came into office when times were good and trashed the place. He’s a lousy actor and a terrible liar. He can’t fake sincerity. He certainly can’t fake honesty. In retrospect none of his speeches are uplifting at all, and his most memorable moments are either points when he mangled his speech (“fool me once…”) or when he said something so outrageous that it caused problems later down the road (“Axis of Evil”) or just something so outrageous that it spoke a truth aloud that Republicans have been denying for years (“I call you ‘my base'”). He was serially incompetent, and left office with a giant ‘L’ branded on his forehead as the mark of a Loser who mismanaged two wars simultaneously and left office without finishing the job.
He’s not getting rehabilitated. The 20%-ers will cling to him somewhat, but mostly they just want to find a new Messiah to worship. As soon as a new shiny replacement Reagan-Jesus is thrown in front of them, they’ll move their worship and Bush will become a piece of their history they will actively try to forget about.
TenguPhule
1. It happened on your Watch, Dick.
2. Anthrax Mail, Mothafucka, do you has it?
Dennis-SGMM
Oddly enough, four suspected homegrown terrorists were just arrested by the FBI working in concert with the NYPD. The arrests were the result of good old-fashioned police work. No one was waterboarded and the NSA had nothing to do with it.
The most vile thing about Cheney & Co. is that they would have us surrender those strengths that enabled this nation to withstand and triumph over its most dangerous and implacable enemies.
J.W. Hamner
Remember when you had to be some crazy conspiracy theorist to even possibly remotely suggest that Cheney was running the show? Good times.
kid bitzer
as i said elsewhere, cheney’s series of high-profile attacks on the obama administration is part of a pre-emptive defense strategy.
cheney knows that obama does not want to divide the country. so obama will seek prosecution only if it looks like justice and the law demand it, not like it’s a partisan witch-hunt against political enemies.
so the more that cheney can get his friends in the press to label him as a “sharp critic of the obama administration” etc., the more he is priming the press to treat any prosecution as an attempt to “silence a critic”. because obama will not pursue him if that’s how it’s going to look.
as usual, cheney is not doing anything for the good of the country. he is only acting for the good of cheney.
definitely one of the most evil men our country has ever produced.
valdivia
I was listening to an interview given by the author of Angler (on the NPR show On Point last week), he stated quite clearly that Cheney did not give a hoot about elections and who won. That he thinks he is right and will do *anything* to make his views prevail. And the funny thing? No one batted an eye at this statement. so it’s ok that Cheney does not care about our democracy he just wants to enact his view no matter what?
Old Gringo
I’d actually agree if this were a true representation of the facts. It isn’t. Torture was used to obtain a false pretext for an illegal invasion of a country that had no connection with 9/11.
We are deep into the battling narratives phase now and people have to get their facts straight.
rachel
And you were OK with voting for Cheney to be our real president? Say it ain’t so!
kay
@valdivia:
Okay, but there are rules. How long does he get to make his case? He had 8 years. That’s a long time.
We haven’t been exposed to enough of his paranoid fantasies? One more speech will do the trick? Enough, already. He had his chance.
Paul L.
To quote progressive war heroes John Kerry and Jesse Ventura
“No wonder Thomas Jefferson himself said: ‘Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism.’ ” “
JL
Cheney said that he was expecting a pardon for Libby but imo, he was also expecting a pardon for himself. When his daughter visits him in jail, is there a way they can accidentally lock her in also.
Michael
Oh yeah. All those troop-hating, Bush-bashing traitors who wanted America to fail and the terrorists to win (as I would have said back in my wingnut days) turned out to be right.
Here’s a fun little bon mot that I’ll toss out – given the Armitage involvement in the Plame thing and the Liz Cheney connection to Armitage, how many different little side games was Old Man Potter in the middle of playing?
Also, there’s a long list of people who are really owed apologies – Natalie Maines, for starters.
ppcli
Why do this goblin and his enablers keep being allowed to play this shell game with 9/11. No repeat? I’ll give you credit for “no repeat”, if you will accept the blame for the fact that 9/11 happened *on your watch*, and *you were warned*. Remember “Ok, you’ve covered your ass”?
.
Next we’ll be asked to give OJ credit for the fact that he’s gone more than a decade “without a repeat” of that “lethal and devastating” wife-murder episode.
TenguPhule
For those with the pie filter on.
Michael
The Aaron Burr of our time.
sus
I watched the President’s speech. I tried to watch Dick. He was particularly decrepit looking and sounding. Then, I watched Fox say how well Dick performed.
Megan Kelly did the show before Obama’s speech. It was clear that the President hasn’t done one right thing since he’s taken office anyway.
Fox news.
YellowJournalism
You have to wonder what Bush is doing during these speeches. If Cheney was his “boss” for eight years, do you think that Bush is sitting in front of the TV with a beer in one hand and one of those toy guns that shoots the sunction cup darts in the other? Or is he just watching another rerun of The Dukes of Hazzard, trying to forget it all?
Paul L.
@Fwiffo:
Keep up the progressive narrative with the myth that Al Gore waited two years to attack Bush.
Flashback: Gore Calls Bush Policies “Un-American” In 2002 Speech
Must be Karl Rove planted evidence like the TANG memos.
Woodrowfan
I’m just amazed the repuks found a spokesperson LESS popular than Bush! hell, Cheney may be less popular than Limbaugh!
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
@InflatableCommenter:
So: there it is in a nutshell.
I’m sure the Villagers will promptly rise up and do some proper journalism-ing.
greynoldsct00
Truly poetic..
Seebach
GODDAMMIT, there was a second attack, and a third.
2. anthrax attack
3. DC sniper
THREE ATTACKS happened on their watch. Don’t let them get away with this bullshit.
The Moar You Know
I’ve never bought the idea that Bush was stupid. Incurious to the point of pathology, yes. But not stupid.
Cheney has obviously done some shit that Bush is on the hook for.
Bush decided to do the one thing he’s good at, cover his ass, and not issue a pardon.
If I were Cheney, I’d think before opening my mouth anymore and keep something in mind – really bad shit happens to people who cross the Bushes.
Michael
That’s a little highbrow for him, don’t you think?
Svensker
@NonyNony:
You got that right. Hannity was saying Bush was a nobody the other day. The right has pretty much washed its hands of Bush the Younger. Cheney is their Tough Guy hero, and Say-rah is their intellectual and political hero. Feh. Eh?
AhabTRuler
Ducking over to CNN, I find that they now have their lips locked on Cheney’s pucker, and are now apparently the Cheney News Network,
Old Gringo
@ Paul L
Read further at the link you provided:
Just a particular peeve of mine, false attributions. I believe it was TR who said something to that effect.
I’d go with the original Old Gringo himself when it comes to the subject of patriotism.
PATRIOT, n.
One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.
PATRIOTISM, n.
Combustible rubbish read to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.
In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
Dissent is a liberty guaranteed in the First Amendment.
Herb
You need an open thread so I can complain about the topless Pamela Anderson ad on the left. I’m not offended, but I am at work…
west coast
Cheney’s goal is pretty simple: stiffen the spine of Republicans to keep his ass out of jail. So long at torture can be painted as legitimate political differences rather than criminality he’s got a shot. So he’ll keep talking, and talking, and talking, because God forbid the smoke he’s blowing actually dissipate.
valdivia
@kay:
exactly. he thinks it actually does not matter that his views were put up for a vote and were defeated. he thinks he is the only one who knows how to get it right. it is insane the media are letting him do this as if *he* were president. today.
Woodrowfan
Al Gore’s speech was in September 2002, 20 months into Bush’s term. Cheney started attacking Obama in, what, April? 3 months in. Oh yeah, exact same thing.
Michael
Oh, lookie what I found – from 2003.
Its a free Google based copy of “Shut Up and Sing” by Laura “I’m a nasally WASP bitch of some marginal former attractiveness” Ingraham. Its 380+ pages of complete and total horseshit.
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Q3Pra8x55IC&dq=shut+up+and+sing&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=CY4VSszGNZCw9ATQianHAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9
And did I mention that it is free?
AhabTRuler
@Woodrowfan: Remember that Paul L is best described as a used colostomy bag: Toxic garbage that is full of shit.
malraux
@YellowJournalism: That brush isn’t going to clear itself. Based on everything I heard about Bush, the only thing he ever really threw himself into was manual labor.
TR
Right as Andy Card’s “new product” — the invasion of Iraq — was being trotted out.
Yeah, how dare Al Gore speak out against the people who were pushing Operation: Awesome Kickass down our throats. He should have just shut up and let the wonderful results roll out on their own.
Lilly von Schtupp
Prior to 9/11, was Cheney not appointed to head up a Terrorism task force? I’m I imagining this? If true, doesn’t this point to yet another huge failure of his administration? His purpose now is to continue throwing sand in our eyes. I’m not sure it’ll work anymore, but then, we did elect these people twice. Present company excluded of course.
Legalize
I believe that Cheney’s motives are precisely the motives of Nicholson’s character in A Few Good Men. Namely, he wants everyone to know “you’re goddamn right I did!”
SpotWeld
Here’s a thought.
(And perhaps it’s a little dishonest to put it like this). More American’s died due to the action of terrorists under Bush?Cheney than under any other president (if you’re willing to include members of the US Military as part of that list of Americans).
What gives them the credibility to give any adivce on national security?
Is that fair way to put it?
Feel free to knock me for this, I’ll agree that I might be pushing the rhetoric on that.
Svensker
What’s the total of people killed in 9/11 — 2900+? And how many Americans have been killed in Iraq for absolutely nothing since Iraq did not threaten us, was not a danger to us and was based on lies and bullshit — 4300?
So Cheney and Bush are directly responsible for more American deaths than the 9/11 terrorists.
Who did they keep safe?
(We won’t bother to count Iraq civilian deaths, since Americans apparently don’t care about anyone but themselves. )
Zifnab
@J.W. Hamner:
Are you kidding? That was an open running joke in 2000. Half the reason Bush got elected was because it was assumed that Dick would keep him from fucking up. It was a conspiracy theory to think Cheney wasn’t running the show.
valdivia
I am not near a tv so I am curious are our Village Media busy fluffing Cheney?
Elie
I dont think that its just prosecution that Cheney is fighting. I think that he and the Republicans can only be successful if fear and emotion are the paradigms for our country. I think that Obama has been changing that to principled goals, values based decisions and a special kind of courage that is deflating the right winged false bravado, and their popularity, faster than the point of a pin..
THIS is the work for Obama AND us, not the specific policy changes but the attitudes and emotions around the perception of who we are and what this country stands for — and the meaning of real courage versus empty posturing and distraction. They can’t beat this — they won’t beat it — train has left the station…
JenJen
@Paul L.:
Oh, good grief. So Al Gore giving a passionate anti-war speech some 20 months into the Bush Presidency is now the exact same thing as Dick Cheney going in front of every open microphone on television to bash the 100-days-young Obama Presidency, for days upon end, with no signs of letting up?
Interesting equivalence. Obvious Fail, but interesting attempt.
Dennis-SGMM
Cheney’s only real failure today was not pointing out that there had been no rains of frogs, no plagues of locusts and no witchcraft during his watch. Nor were the firstborn sons of every household killed in the night.
LanceThruster
I liked the parts of the speech I heard, except for when he stated that the prosecution of our own homegrown war criminals was just “looking backwards.”
The way to ensure respect for the rule of law is to apply it justly!
omen
not sure where i spotted this, but i saw somebody suggest cheney is attempting to taint the jury pool.
maybe if obama offers him a pre-emptive pardon, he’ll STFUA!
Old Gringo
Legacy. Competing narratives. He who controls the history…, etc.
See Orwell.
Cyrus
@Aaron:
To be fair, it’s not. GHWB did it, I seem to remember that Reagan’s name was signed to some anti-Clinton editorial at some point although I can’t find a link, and of course Republicans spent plenty of time whining about Clinton’s and Carter’s lack of civility.
As far as I know, the idea that there’s a long tradition of ex-presidents retiring to statesmanlike above-the-fray behavior was invented in 2001 to handicap criticism of Bush from the most legitimate quarters of all.
gbear
He’s trying to save his own constitution shredding ass. He’s like Rod Blago only without the charm.
Old Gringo
Call me a cynic but I doubt it will ever come to that. It probably should and I did read that somewhere myself.
DBrown
@Paul L.: Get a brain – cheney is attacking the current president in a massive campaign and is even giving a speech at the same time frame as the President (when in the fuck did Gore do that?) that fully undermines both our safety and our troops. Cheney is a self-serving pile of shit within a massive pile of vile blood filled puke. To compare a massive series of lies by cheney to some rare speech given by Gore is the height of delusion.
Tsulagi
Yeah, the surprise factor on that has been zero for a long, long time.
I remember before the 00 election some R-friends trying to convince me to vote Bush/Cheney. When I’d point out by all appearances Bush was a frat boy airhead in a suit who couldn’t speak the language, they’d agree at least somewhat, but quickly add Cheney would backstop him so no worries. Yeah, that worked out well.
omen
@r€nato:
Not like Al Gore did when the Supreme Court stole the presidency from him.
what could he do? the only thing i could think of that might have overturned the supreme court ruling involved blood in the streets.
BDeevDad
@Seebach: Not that all Americans agree. But since it is a Global War,
4. UK 7/7
5. Spain – Train
This does not include the daily attacks on US soldiers since, “we are fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.” That strategy basically says we have not done squat, just changed the terrorists target.
Andrew
There’s nothing quite like saving American lives like having 5000 of them die unnecessarily in a foreign adventure.
Seebach
Not that all Americans agree. But since it is a Global War,
plus
6. Bali bombing
7. Iraq mosque
8. Iraq market
9. Iraq base
10. Iraq street
11. Iraq…
passerby
@Ash Can:
This is my take to a tee. The whole fear based approached is running out of traction.
More and more we’re seeing the media challenge the lies and hypocrisy.
Was it Diane Sawyer who put the point to Gingrinch about the CIA as liars=Pelosi bad but Reps did it too? He was left sputtering.
KO and Maddow have been pretty forthright (perhaps a bit shrill at times) about calling folks on their bullshit–or at least having guests that come on their shows to whistleblow.
Last Sunday, George Stephanopoulus didn’t let Liz Cheney get away from the discussion without challenging her on the allegation that the purpose of torture was to create a link between Al Qaida and 9/11. GS of all people. Liz C is no fool but she didn’t (could’nt) deny that point in her loopy response. Boo-ya.
A wave of truth telling is building.
So let’s give ’em enough rope. More Dick please.
oh really
Yeah, but the frat boy gets the library.
Rick Taylor
I just wish the media had gone this far out of their way to prevent views dissenting from the administration back when we were all being whipped up for the invasion of Iraq.
mark
In Spain, we call the train attack 11-M cuz it happened on March 11, 2004.
Linus
I found it astonishing when Cheney claimed torture prevented the violent deaths of perhaps “hundreds of thousands” of people. Yeah I bet. If we foiled plans that would have caused the violent deaths of that many, how much do you want to bet the Bush administration would have made us aware of how awesome they were for doing so? Release the evidence, then.
Phoenix Woman
Lars Thorwald, DoJ attorney, on Obama’s speech (everything that follows is from his diary):
stickler
Dick Cheney is now, and has been for years, utterly detached from reality. He’s screwing the GOP by going on the teevee so much, and he may indeed be setting himself up for legal unpleasantness if he keeps flapping his gums.
But he doesn’t see it that way. Just like in 2001 he knew — KNEW! — that Iraq was a bigger danger than Al Quaeda. And then, when we were hit by Al Quaeda anyhow, he knew — KNEW — there had to be an Iraqi connection. So they made one up.
The man is delusional, but he’s also determined. Hopefully that particular combination will drive him to a spectacular fall.
TenguPhule
Ideally from 10,000+ feet up, with video recording through the splash on impact.
Michael
Au contraire. I’d like to see him shrink wrapped to a pallet and air dropped from a C-130 into a cold Peshawar night……
Comrade Kevin
@Paul L.:
Jesse Ventura, progressive? On what planet?
God, you’re stupid.
RSA
One of the funny things is trying to figure out how stupid Cheney thinks his listeners are–how much he thinks he can get away with. My vote for the most transparent bit of dishonesty (though of course not the most serious one) is this, concerning the closing of Guantanamo:
This naturally makes me wonder who’s paying for their detention in Guantanamo right now… Have we somehow gotten other countries to pay for our prison facilities? That’s a nice trick.
Jay in Oregon
@oh really:
If it was the Dick Cheney Memorial Library, the entrance would be in a mountainside somewhere in Wyoming, the books would have every other sentence redacted, and the head librarian would be a dementor.
JL
Josh at TPM has photos up of Obama and Cheney giving their speeches.
Why is it that when I type Cheney there is not a red line under his name but there is for President Obama?
Mnemosyne
@Paul L.:
Shorter Paul L.: I have no understanding of sarcasm or irony.
JenJen
This one is for my girl, Laura W:
Lawrence O’Donnell on MSNBC: Cheney’s Speech Was the Sleaziest Presentation by a Veep since Spiro Agnew
Go, Larry O’D!
PanAmerican
You think I’d give up my son?
Steve Gilliard predicted Cheney would eventually get knifed by the Bush clan. They’ve spent a lifetime of cleaning up after W. Same shit, different day. (That and the old man harbors the delusion it’s still possible to position Jeb for a run).
When it looked like they could get years to life in prison just for skimmin’ a casino…you knew people were going to get clipped….
Paul L.
@Comrade Kevin:
war heroes supported by progressives
Lots of posts agreeing with the truther on on Crooks and Liars.
Noticed that the video Cheney’s speech on Crooks and Liars has the beginning and end cut off of it. I am sure that it is for the worst of motives.
MNPundit
I was listening to Iowa NPR today about the speech and they said Cheney was defending “his administration.” Now I know they meant he was a part of that administration, but you could take it another way too.
MNPundit
@Comrade Kevin: Jesse Ventura = Light Rail in Minnesota.
How is increased and massively successful mass transit not fucking progressive?
Paul L.
@JenJen
:
First Dissent now civility.
Cheney tortures Pelosi
Progressive values are falling by the wayside.
passerby
@YellowJournalism:
I wager he’s sitting in front of his TV with a bottle of scotch and a bucket of ice with his telephone in his lap (his lawyer on speed dial) having a good laugh. And Laura? Bet she’s got the same set up but she’s off the kitchen in the TV den watching something from Netflix.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
I do find it kind of amazing that Cheney is offering up a national security speech. It is just weird to have a former VP out there openly sabotaging a new administration, and make no mistake about it, that is what Cheney is doing.
Do you think Cheney thinks that’s what he’s doing? I’d be not at all surprised to discover that Cheney, like the MSM taards, believes that Obama isn’t really rightfully in charge and that Cheney is the head of a government-in-exile.
That whole Sally Quinn “it’s not his town” attitude is very much alive.
Marshall
I used to think that Cheney wouldn’t live long enough to participate in the inevitable war crimes trials. Now, I don’t, and each time he makes a speech, I think it brings that day just that much closer.
Eric S
Woodrowfan at 51 Yglesias points out that Cuba is more popular than Cheney.
Herb @ 60Yes, Pamela is making it a little unacceptable to come here during at work.
Terri
OT, but just watched a clip of the women on “The View”, bitch slapping Glenn Beck for making up shit about Whoopi And Barbara on his show.
Made me feel all warm and fuzzy
JL
@MNPundit: I live in a town that has provided pickup of recycled goods for over a decade. They support the parks and have affordable after school programs at the recreation center. It was named tree city last year and NBC Today show highlighted the town. I volunteer at an organization that provides food and clothing to help subsidize the needy. They have few paid positions but through fund raisers they were able to buy a building so their overhead is small.
I also live in Tom Price’s district.
Comrade Kevin
@Paul L.:
That is not what you wrote, regardless of the spin you’re putting on it now.
JenJen
@Paul L.: Still no answer to your ludicrous comparison of Al Gore to Dick Cheney, earlier in the thread? C’mon, we’re desperate with anticipation, and I for one have faith in your ability to say something even dumber!
As far as Cheney’s speech on Crooks and Liars, you could always go over to Talking Points Memo and just watch the whole thing. So much for the Vast Liberal Conspiracy.
P.S. Lawrence O’Donnell was spot-on in his description of Cheney’s speech. If anything, he was rather unfair to Spiro Agnew, but it must have been effective, as it seems to have raised your ire up to 11.
Wile E. Quixote
@Paul L.
I love how conservatives who never spent a single day serving their country in uniform because they couldn’t have hacked it, you know conservatives like Pat Buchanan and Dick Cheney, and for that matter probably Paul L., like to sound all tough and advocate torture, huge military adventures and bombing the shit out of people. When are these assholes going to be called on the fact that the only reason that they’re so jingoistic, bellicose and obnoxiously hyper-patriotic is to cover up their own lack of courage, conviction and willingness to serve their country in uniform? Next time a conservative, or perhaps a better term is “can’tservative” starts lecturing me about patriotism or national security I’m going to ask how many years they spent in the military and if the answer is “none” I’m going to kick his ass. It won’t be hard, because let’s face it, can’tservatives are all cowardly and weak.
croatoan
“As all Americans know, recent weeks have brought a second wave of terrorist attacks upon our country: deadly anthrax spores sent through the U.S. mail.” — George W. Bush
TR
Sorry: Is there another show called “Hardball” other than the one Chris Matthews hosts?
Oh, go fuck yourself. I’m sorry if progressives are pissed off that the conservatives nearly destroyed this country — once again — and we have to come in and clean it up — once again — while getting sanctimonious lectures from blown-out assholes like Cheney and yourself.
Civility? Fuck it, and fuck you, you fucking asshole.
JenJen
@TR: Not to mention those three long morning hours where MSNBC gives Joe Scarborough an open microphone through which to spew his limited and superficial understanding of just about everything.
For Paul L… for what it’s worth, Paul, you weren’t watching “Hardball,” you were watching Chris Matthews. “Hardball” comes on at 5:00 pm ET. You should probably watch it sometime; there are always Republicans-a-plenty on the show. Live, and learn.
Laura W
@JenJen: Grrrr! He’s even more sexy when he yells, isn’t he? I can not think of a better future ex (unless it’s you know, that Matt of yours.)
Freakin’ power went out for 90 min. cuz it’s been a couple months since the last time it did that. Nothing like using dial up to be sure the world is still turning and rationing the battery. It is Wine O’Clock where you live, JenJen? I’m so drowsy from a Sudafed PE I took hours ago I need chemicals to rev me up.
CatStaff
@Dennis-SGMM: See this rock? It keeps away tigers.
Well, you don’t see any tigers, do you?
JL
Rush and Bill have told the whackos not to watch MSNBC.
What would happen to Joe’s ratings in the libs turned him off.
Give it a try.
JenJen
@Laura W: Glad you liked!! It certainly has our friend Paul L very upset today, as evidenced by his thread comments. Now, give me Matt Taibbi on teevee giving his reaction to the speeches and I’ll consider it to be a fine, fine day indeed!
@JL: But if I quit my Morning Joe habit, I would miss Lawrence O’Donnell, who always does a most effective job of taking on both Joe and Pat Buchanan. And Willie Geist did compare today’s dueling speeches to the last battle-rap scene of “Eight Mile” today, so it wasn’t a total loss. So sue me… I like politics in the morning, and CNN bores me, and The Today Show is all about cooking tips and missing white women. :-)
@CatStaff: FTW!!
gbear
He just wanted to clear the highways in his neighborhood so he could get around faster in his Lincoln Navigator.
Did you ever hear Jesse in any of his conversations with single mothers? He absolutely hated them. Hating programs for single mothers = Not progressive.
JL
@JenJen: Huffington Post often replays O’Donnell so you can get your fix. I turned off Joe a few weeks back and my mornings are so much more relaxing. I just didn’t learn anything by watching them and Mika’s drooling got to me.
Shawn in ShowMe
On that same note, many of the progressive bloggers we all know and love have no ties to working class communities but purport to know what’s best for the working classes. That’s not progressive either. No person is all one thing.
TenguPhule
These days being against illegal torture and thinking those who approve of it are sick bastards qualifies you as progressive.
Patrick
Are there separate Al Qaedas? Is there an Al Qaeda that just tries to attack the U.S. and another that tries to attack England, and another that tries to attack France, etc? No.
If torture is so great, and provides so much useful information, then how come all these Al Qaeda guys we tortured never hinted at the London Subway bombings? How come some never blurted out the plot to kill hundreds on Spanish trains?
I thought it was, “apply torture get all kinds of great intelligence”? So, how come these other plots weren’t discovered?
JenJen
@JL: Fair enough. During the election, the show would put me in such a daily foul mood that one of my coworkers implored me to “stop drinking the Morning Poison.”
I guess I’m just one of those people who likes to keep my enemies close?
Fulcanelli
@CatStaff: I have an elephant whistle that works the same way! Neat! See many elephants in Rhode Island? Noooo, and we like it that way.
As if my Senator Whitehouse and his Torture Judicial Sub-Commitee hearings weren’t enough, now a member of RI’s House of Rep’s is offering Bush a $100 for every second he’ll succumb to waterboarding (for charity). Rodney Driver, bless his heart.
Lawrence O’Donnell needs his own show, IMHO.
JenJen
@Fulcanelli: Lawrence O’Donnell is on Hardball right now, tune in! Looks like he’s going to take Pat Buchanan out for a spin. ;-)
Shawn in ShowMe
Actually, there are different terrorist organizations that are operating somewhat independent of each other. The terrorists behind the Madrid bombings were allegedly “Al Qaeda-inspired” but no direct link was ever established. The British authorities outright dismissed any direct ties between the ringleader of the London bombings and Al Qaeda.
Martin
Well, England is just an ally, so we don’t care about them, just as we didn’t care how many British and French civilians died in WWII and didn’t bother trying to help them. Besides they’re European social!sts, they talk funny, and they’re fat.
JL
@JenJen: Thanks! I can watch Chris sometimes. He is cute. Not Chris..O’Donnell.
Laura W
@JenJen: mmmmm….he’s yelling again!
Of course, so is Pat, but he whines when he yells.
Pat is totally harshing my lust buzz.
Golden Statist
Stop trashing Cheney — he’s a fear-fomenting has-been with a bad ticker — and just focus on today’s slickly vacuous preachifying by The One (except for that bad TOTUS bit about SecDef Bill Gates). Live in the empowered now, libtards.
gnomedad
Idea for SNL skit: Malia O. debates Liz C.
dbrown
@Wile E. Quixote: Your comment
is without a doubt the best come back answer I have read on a blog. It is so good I will steal it without shame or remorse.
Be happy BoB isn’t here on this thread – that guy makes Paul L look like a liberal.
asiangrrlMN
@MNPundit: Jesse did that one progressive act, and I thank him for it. In fact, I kinda miss him. That said, he is not a progressive. He is a libertarian who did things that suited him. He liked mass transit, so he got it done.
Now, I must watch Larry O’D to soothe the savage beast inside. That’s right, Larry–let the tiger out. Rrrowr!
asiangrrlMN
I love watching Larry let loose. I still don’t understand why Pat Buchanan is allowed anywhere near a microphone.
Thank you all for saying what Cheney said so I don’t have to watch him. I WILL, however, watch our president’s speech later tonight. It’s so nice to have a grown-up in charge.
JenJen
@asiangrrlMN: Hey, did you just see Chris Matthews wrapping up the show? He said, “We saw the real Cheney in his smart-aleck remarks he delivered about the President before the formal speech started. Dick Cheney is the troll under the bridge, biting the ankles of the kids who try to cross. And it’s pronounced “CHEEN-EEE” by the way!”
Ha!! Good show all around today.
Mike in NC
Go fuck yourself, wingnut.
TR
Same here. So much better.
Xenos
I used to think that Cheney was a mad genius. It appears he is just mad.
Bulworth
Wish our librule media understood that we only have one president at a time.
Liz
Your thoughts precisely mirror my thinking on hearing Cheney’s speech.