Good piece up at CNN about the after-effects of torture, and it included this quote:
The psychological effects of torture can often be worse than the physical effects, said Ellen Gerrity, assistant professor of psychiatry at Duke University and co-editor of “The Mental Health Consequences of Torture.”
“The psychological symptoms can often be worse in the sense that person can never recover from that, and may in the end, be in such despair and pain that they take their own lives, especially if they don’t have treatment or support around them,” she said.
Experts say torture victims can develop post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, and symptoms such as social withdrawal, confusion and sleep problems.
That was kind of by design. Bybee and others made sure that nothing that left any physical marks got through, and everything else was fair game. Of course repeatedly torturing someone is going to leave an emotional trail. Ask John McCain. Hell, ask Christopher Hitchens, who was waterboarded approximately ONCE:
Also, in case it’s of interest, I have since woken up trying to push the bedcovers off my face, and if I do anything that makes me short of breath I find myself clawing at the air with a horrible sensation of smothering and claustrophobia. No doubt this will pass.
Keep telling yourself that, Hitch.
blogenfreude
Hannity offered to be waterboarded for charity – what’s up with that?
El Cid
Wasn’t this why the mob supposedly used rubber hoses at times instead of baseball bats, sticks, and pipes? Does the mafia enhanced interrogate (interrogate enhancedly?)?
The Saff
Gawd, but I hate all of the Bushies who advocated and then authorized torture on America’s behalf. What I wouldn’t give to see Cheney, Bush, Rice, Addington, Bybee, Yoo, Bradbury, etc., each doing the perp walk.
And did anyone see Col. Wilkerson on “Countdown” last night? He said that what Cheney is doing now borders on treason.
Crust
Does death count as a physical mark? Approximately 100 detainees died in our custody. No doubt some of those were from natural causes or as a result of wounds incurred in capture, but approximately 30 were ruled homicides. Overdoing the stress positions and cold cells, that kind of thing.
AhabTRuler
IIRC, Hitchens actually was waterboarded twice, although both in the same session. I think he lasted a combined 15 sec., but at least he had the balls to go through with it at all.
Still think he’s an asshole!
AhabTRuler
Sorry for the DP. Errr, that is, the bad kind of DP.
Brachiator
Hasn’t John McCain spoke about and written about the after-effects of his torture? Isn’t there a wide body of testimony on this? The idea that Hitch and others are just discovering the effects of torture is amazing. And yeah, when is Hannity going to man up to his self-imposed challenge to be waterboarded?
This morning I listened to excerpts of Cheney’s speech in which he admitted to the use of torture against “a few” individuals because it was legal and produced results. The boldness with which he is confessing to his crimes is astounding, but I guess that we will only see someone like him arrested and forced to do a perp walk on an upcoming episode of Law and Order.
Obama and others may want to put this behind us. But when the perpetrators are brashly confessing to their misdeeds, the government should just reel them in and be done with it.
And, if he likes, Cheney, Yoo, and others should be arrested and imprisoned at Gitmo. They have in effect committed acts of terrorism against the United States. And who wants terrorists on the homeland?
omen
this was what i was alluding to by the pottery barn rule. we broke it. don’t we now have an obligation to try to fix it? is anybody thinking of administering some kind of therapy before releasing detainees?
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
@Brachiator:
That would be “never”. One of the possible outcomes of waterboarding is heart attack and death.
While waterboarding gets all the attention, think of what was done to Jose Padilla, a US citizen who was detained without due process and then tortured with sensory deprivation until he went insane. Think of going for days at a time (weeks? months?) in solitary confinement, shackled, wearing blackout goggles and noise-blocking headphones. Horrible. Sickening.
The fact that this is not being condemned from every pulpit in the nation just shows the depravity of modern Xtianity.
Krista
I think Hitch deserves a lot of credit for that. Most of the pro-waterboarding contingent would never volunteer to try it, or if they did in a moment of brashness, would figure out a way to weasel out of it.
Cowards, every goddamn last one of them.
kid bitzer
i think he deserves some credit for the first time he was waterboarded.
i think he deserves a *lot* of credit for the second time. the second time, you know what you’re facing.
when they finally get around to waterboarding hannity, i want him to sign a pledge that he’ll go five rounds. with a good long stretch in between, at least ten minutes.
that way we can watch him begging and pleading after the second round, selling his mother and denying christ.
which is really what all these people are up to anyhow.
Bootlegger
The Inquisition couldn’t pierce the skin and cause bleeding according to Baby Jeebus. So they used fire instead. And it worked dammit! The Jews never attacked Europe again!
omen
rachel maddow talked about psychologists’ involvement in torture last night, how interrogations were taken over by cia contractors:
contractor was a psychologist, james mitchell, who had no interrogation experience, nevertheless, was hired by the cia to develop violent and forced-based interrogation methods.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#30877760
this guy belongs in jail.
Montysano
Lately, I can’t get this out of my head:
omen
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon):
One of the possible outcomes of waterboarding is heart attack and death
and pneumonia because of water getting in the lungs.
i too give props to hitch for chancing it.
he also brought up something on cspan i hadn’t heard before. if we’re going to tolerate waterboarding, where does it stop?
all the media focus on waterboarding serves to overshadow other things that were done. like sodomy.
amen.
Notorious P.A.T.
There’s no reason for Hannity to undergo waterboarding. . . after all, it’s just a typical fraternity prank, so doing it would prove nothing! ! ! ! !
JasonF
Some of you may be familiar with Erich “Mancow” Muller. He is a DJ who started out in the 90s as a Howard Stern-esque shock jock. He got fired a few years ago and reinvented himself as a right-wing political talker, and he now co-hosts a show on the biggest talk radio station in Chicago (the station also airs Limbaugh and Hannity).
Muller has been a huge defender of the Bush administration’s policies in the War on Terror in general, and the practice of waterboarding in particular. Like Hannity, he volunteered to be waterboarded. Unlike Hannity, he actually went through with it.
Here are the results, including a short video that shows him actually being water boarded.
Notorious P.A.T.
O’Brien locked his prisoner in a cage with a rat. We would never do that! Insects, sure, but never a rat. We’re not savages!
debrazza
Hitchens waterboarding PTSD is just another excuse for him to drink more.
Mnemosyne
He’s basically daring the administration to arrest him, because he will then cause a shitstorm of massive proportions using all of his pals in the media. We already have reporters chiding Robert Gibbs for not being sufficiently “respectful” of Cheney. Imagine the outcry from them if Cheney was charged with anything, much less arrested.
J.D. Rhoades
Anyone up for a WATERBOARD SEAN HANNITY bumper sticker?
Martin
Rape/sodomy doesn’t have to leave a mark either, nor permanent injury. I guess it would be acceptable then.
And doing those things to your kids while you are forced to watch doesn’t leave marks, either. Man, the things fraternaties can do these days…
Dork
I’m guessin Hitch thought it was a Scotch n’ Water boarding….
Robert
Chicago radio host Mancow Muller was waterboarded live on the air this morning. He lasted all of 6 seconds. And afterward, he changed his position and said it’s “absolutely torture.”
JasonF
@Robert: It’s like I’m not even here. ; )
Robert
Sorry, JasonF. Missed that.
JasonF
That’s OK. Anything that brings more attention to that video is A-OK with me.
asiangrrlMN
@JasonF: Wow. And it was in a lax, loose setting. He wasn’t tied down and the guy was joking. Mancow–what a name. Good on him that he admitted it was torture.
On a previous thread, someone mentioned a state democrat who is offering a hundred dollars per second that W., Cheney, and Rice hold out under waterboarding.
I say we all chip in. I will give five bucks to John Cole and another twenty to the local Center for Victims of Torture for each second Hannity can last. Let’s do it!
P.S. Psychological wounds are the worst because physical injuries will at least heal (if properly treated). There is no magic wand to re-set a broken mind.
John PM
@JasonF:
I liked the fact that the marine lied to Mancow about when he was going to start pouring the water. And the simulation is still nowhere close to the real thing. Anyone who volunteers to get waterboarded should be forcibly stripped, manhandled onto the board, tied up, have the towel put over the face, and then let completely alone for a few minutes before the water gets poured on. And they should have it done six times, to simulate the average that it was done to the person who was waterboarded 183 times. And of course they should also be asked embarrasing questions and provide the answers before the waterboarding will stop. And then once they provide those answers they should be asked questions to which they do not know the answers and provide the answers that the interrogators want before the waterboarding is stopped.
BDeevDad
I can’t believe I’m doing this, but to paraphrase Jesse Ventura
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
Any shouts of outrage would be drowned out by cheers coming from the rational world. Bush and Cheney need to be arrested, tried and hopefully convicted in American courts. I pondered all the froo froo about international war crimes tribunals, etc., but since the Constitution and the laws that come from it are the supreme law of the land, we don’t get to punt to “international law.”
Cheney’s snarling insistence that he is the law demands a smackdown. Nixon resigned. Cheney is insisting that he has been vindicated even as he lays out the prosecutions case.
Recently, some apologist offered that detainees who were tortured really wanted to give it up. Clearly, Cheney is asking to be prosecuted.
People, people. Let’s give him what he wants.
M. Bouffant
@JasonF:
The most fun about that? Check memeorandum. Not one right-wing blog seems to have any reaction to Mancow’s statement that it is pretty horrid, & he couldn’t last more than six secs.
Pug
Jesse Ventura says he would get Hannity to admit that Obama is the greatest president if he had him alone with a waterboard for a little while.
Love to see that.