This is pretty awesome. Wingnut WorldNet Daily is running a fundraising drive to “raise awareness” about Obama’s birth certificate:
Would you like to see more awareness of the serious questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president of the United States? Are you frustrated by the lack of media coverage of this constitutional issue? How would you like to join in a campaign to generate public debate and discussion?
WND, the only news agency in the world that has relentlessly pounded the eligibility questions, is ready to up the ante — with your help.
Donations are being accepted to defray the costs of a national billboard campaign with the simple message: “Where’s the birth certificate?”
The idea is to make sure Obama cannot avoid this question any longer. He must be asked to produce it at every turn. Billboard space is currently being negotiated in Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Sacramento, San Francisco, New York-New Jersey, Des Moines, Seattle and other metro areas.
Putting aside the idiocy of the movement’s basis, but even their approach is wingnutty. If the idea is to pressure Obama and not give him a moment’s notice, why put up billboards in Des Moines and Seattle, when the man lives in Washington, DC? If you want him to see billboards, that would be the place to put them. Do the citizens of Des Moines have a special in with Obama? They can call him up and pressure him?
They’ve apparently raised 25,000 dollars, which sort of upset me, because I was hoping it would be more than that since every dollar spent on this is a dollar not spent doing something harmful, like funding Republicans in races.
*** Update ***
As DougJ notes in the comments, 99% of the country is going to have no clue what birth certificate they are even talking about.
(Via)
max hats
I like how they’re putting these up in all the places least receptive to the message.
DougJ
Why not at least explain whose birth certificate? This is a perfect example of post-wingnut communication.
JK
h/t Countdown with Keith Olbermann Monday, January 5, 2009 http://rss.msnbc.msn.com/id/28544450/
World Net Daily caught in own lie – MSN Video
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=dd0e8d1c-0c56-4232-8a65-d8808bd8cf40
omen
silly wabbit, the anti-christ doesn’t come with a birth certificate.
Kristin
All I can think of is “Where’s the Beef?”
Eric U.
this and the mustard thing just stumps every normal person, even the average Rushbot.
blogenfreude
@omen: FTW
rikyrah
Some people have too much time on their hands.
Rosali
I want to know where’s the whitey tape.
Cerberus
I’m imagining some poor schmuck who assumes it’s some help website for getting your county birth certificate for passports and things logging on to the site to his confusion and/or intense amusement.
But yeah, the whole movement is totally not about racists who don’t believe one of them could be (O Brother Where Art Thou) bona fide, loosely connected ad hoc to the Rapture Ready omg the antichrist is now black crowd.
Nope, not at all.
MattF
They should sponsor a set of revolving billboards saying “Birth Certificate”, “TelePrompter”, “Dijon Mustard,” and, just for good measure, “Pussy Galore”. That’ll teach those libruls a thing or three…
DougJ
It’s even worse than I thought. The URL on the poster is for wnd.com, where the birth certificate thing is about the 10th story down. So even if people follow the wnd.com link they won’t know what it has to do with birth certificates, unless they do a search.
wasabi gasp
Same here. I figure a good number of people who see that sign will be yelling an order into a clown’s mouth within five minutes.
dmsilev
Well, there’s absolutely no way that he can become President without first winning the Iowa Caucuses, so clearly they’re planning on renting time on the billboards starting 18 months ago.
-dms
JK
Excerpted from
Democrat sues Sen. Obama over ‘fraudulent candidacy’
Lawsuit disputing U.S. citizenship based in part on discredited claims
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214
Posted: August 23, 2008
5:40 pm Eastern
Philip J. Berg, a former member of Pennsylvania’s Democratic State Committee and former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania, filed the lawsuit this week in U.S District Court, asking the court to declare Obama ineligible for the presidency and to prevent him from running for the position.
However, a WND investigation has found that at least part of Berg’s lawsuit relies on discredited claims. A separate WND investigation into Obama’s birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren’t originally there.
Even if Obama produced authenticated proof of his birth in Hawaii, however, the suit claims that the U.S. Nationality Act of 1940 provided that minors lose their American citizenship when their parents expatriate. Since Obama’s mother married an Indonesian citizen and moved to Indonesia, the suit claims, she forfeited both her and Barack’s American citizenship.
However, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence Ann Dunham expatriated. Also, consulting citizenship experts contend that if Obama indeed obtained Indonesian citizenship, it simply would not have been recognized by the U.S., but the presidential candidate would retain his American citizenship.
BombIranForChrist
I love stuff like this. Like the home shopping network, I consider it a kind of idiot tax that prevents idiots from spending their money on something that might actually damage the country. A dollar spent on this crap is a dollar not spent on [Republican Candidate]’s campaign.
I kinda feel the same way about Humvees. Every dollar spent on 4 mpg gasoline is money not given to the republican party. Win / win.
Brick Oven Bill
The Birth Certificate issue is real, and I predict will be historic. Thinking as rationally as I can, there are only two reasons why Obama would not have produced a valid Birth Certificate:
1. He got caught up in a bad fake back when he was playing by Chicago standards, and it is too late to come back with a good fake meeting federal standards; or
2. He is setting up a political trap to again play the victim, and make himself more powerful when he finally produces a valid Birth Certificate. This would be a petty political trick, in my opinion.
My gut tells me the correct answer is #1, and that this will come to a head either when a controversial military order is challenged by his Generals, or more likely when the Bankers no longer have a need for Obama and they leak the Columbia records.
At that point every previous action of his Administration would become invalid, and he would technically have to be deported as an illegal immigrant. I am not sure how this would pan out, but it probably would not proceed smoothly.
Bill E Pilgrim
So, “He must be asked to produce it at every turn”?
I thought the whole accusation was that it didn’t exist. In that case, wouldn’t producing it once pretty much resolve things in their little fantasy?
They’re not even bothering to encode things anymore. You gotta just keep checking ID on those kinds of people, you know.
Herb
Wow…what makes this worse is that a copy of the birth certificate was already released and the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed it was legit. So the question has already been answered.
JK
Another Excerpt From
Democrat sues Sen. Obama over ‘fraudulent candidacy’
Lawsuit disputing U.S. citizenship based in part on discredited claims
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214
Posted: August 23, 2008
5:40 pm Eastern
FactChecker.org says it obtained Obama’s actual birth certificate and that the document was indeed real. The site discredited some of the claims of Internet bloggers, such as that the certificate as viewed in a scanned copy released by Obama’s campaign lacked a raised seal. FactChecker.org also established that many of the alleged flaws in the document noted by bloggers were caused by the scanning of the document.
garyb50
@Brick Oven Bill: “Thinking as rationally as I can” pretty much says it all.
The Grand Panjandrum
But they have pictures of him in Muslim garb! He did a Fist Bump with his wife! But … but … but … Whitey tape! Well this is certainly good news for John McCain!
It’s about 65 out with a bit of overcast and no wind so I think I’ll go ride my new toy. Just picked it up yesterday.
dmsilev
@Herb:
You would think so. Sadly, the conspiro-wackos don’t believe that said copy is legit, and in fact is part of the conspiracy. The Google search term you want for reams and reams of grade-A nutcase ranting is “vault copy”.
-dms
jrg
Where the snopes.com link will be waiting, to debunk the myth.
dumb asses.
TR
Your first step in thinking rationally would be to understand that he already fucking released the birth certificate. Jesus Christ, you’re a moron.
Dennis-SGMM
Back to back electoral drubbings left the righties with two choices:
1) Re-examine their methods and motives and come up with effective, inclusive policies that would aid America in recovering from two wars and economic collapse.
2) Become more insular and resort to name calling, purity purges and appeals in coded language that only the purest of the pure understand.
And the answer is “I’ll take Brick Oven Bill” for $200, Alex.”
Herb
“Brick Oven Bill
The Birth Certificate issue is real, and I predict will be historic. Thinking as rationally as I can, there are only two reasons why Obama would not have produced a valid Birth Certificate:”
Woah, man…you haven’t been following this issue too closely. Obama did produce a copy of his birth certificate. A quick Google search will find it for you. It was alleged that it might have been fake until…
The State of Hawaii confirmed that it was valid.
So when you expend so much effort trying to game out reasons “why Obama would not have produced a valid Birth Certificate,” you’re just wasting your time. Done and done.
Next fake issue, please!
Jen R
@Brick Oven Bill:
FTFY.
Too easy. Like shooting fish in Mrs Paul’s freezer.
srv
Bring your daughter to war day.
grimc
@DougJ:
I was just gonna say. This is a barely veiled scam to get donations to fund a wnd.com advertising campaign. If they get enough to run some boards about the birth certificate of mass destruction, no doubt they’d claim victory and tell the same suckers that now they need to do the same for dijon mustard or something.
Is this any different than the time when the Head Freeper ran a “fundraising campaign” and bought an RV?
Mike in NC
Ah, garyb50 beat me to it! How soon before Glenn Beck and the rest of the FOX teabaggers start “Billboard Parties” to promote this lunacy?
dmsilev
@srv:
Before clicking on the link, I was *sure* that it was going to be another Liz Cheney story.
-dms
Brick Oven Bill
I am highly suspicious that there is a valid birth certificate for two primary reasons:
1. Obama’s own web-site defense claims that the issue is ‘not about that piece of paper’, when in fact, it is exactly about that sheet of paper. This was back when he was playing by Chicago standards. I think he’s caught in a bad fake.
2. His father is listed as an ‘African’ on the electronic image. The ‘African’ race only came about on college campuses in the 1980s. In the late 1960s-1970, people from Africa were called ‘blacks’ (say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud), in the early 1960s, people from African were termed ‘negros’. ‘African’ was not a ‘race’ in 1964.
My understanding TR is that the ‘Birth Certificate’ was only released to be viewed by some state official, who then claimed it was valid. I would be careful about putting too much faith in State politicians, especially when there is something in it for them.
Martin
The whole movement is a pile of fail, because Americans in general don’t demand a strict adherance to laws. If they did, nobody would exceed the speed limit or smoke pot, and the nation would be screaming for the head of anyone who touched torture.
Americans are pragmatists. Laws exist to achieve a desired outcome. If the outcome is reached outside of the law, then most Americans couldn’t give a shit. That’s why the torture debate is where it is right now. It has less to do with whether the torture took place or whether it was legal or not, and more to do with whether it kept the nation safe. So long as enough Americans walk away thinking that it was necessary and effective, they won’t care if a law was broken.
Since the vast majority of the nation is happy with Obama’s performance as President, they won’t care if he’s a citizen or not. And that assumes that they even know about the law to begin with, which I doubt most people even do.
So in order for this movement to make any ground, they need to do 3 things:
1) Educate the public that there is a natural-born citizen requirement, and make clear what that is (hard enough since it’s not at all clear – look at McCain being born in Panama as an example)
2) Get the public at large to be unhappy with Obama as president (looking like a tall order itself right now, and the longer this takes, the less they’ll look back at issues surrounding the election)
3) Provide proof that the birth certificate that everyone in any position to authenticate has said is real, isn’t real. That puts the birthers in the same boat as the grassy knoll people.
Good luck with any one of those, let alone all three.
And I have a story to reinforce the rule of law issue. A number of years back an agricultural town somewhere in the south or midwest, I don’t recall, elected a new sheriff by a pretty wide margin. The next year was bad for the crops, and many farms were at risk of not making the mortgage, so they did what apparently is pretty common on small farms – they took the small marijuana crop that they grow in case of emergencies and started moving the stuff. Just enough to make the mortgage. Well, the sheriff moved in and started arresting farmers. The town was outraged and recalled the sheriff and put the old sheriff back in charge who looked past such actions unless they were excessive. See, the presence of pot in the town didn’t have a negative impact that was even remotely close to the positive impact on the town and the people decided collectively that enforcing those drug laws didn’t produce the desired outcome, which was a safe and prosperous town.
smiley
@Herb:
The truthers also conveniently ignore the birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper.
CapMidnight
Seems it’d be cheaper than billboards to get everybody to moon Obama at every opportunity. And get true patriots to drop trou on Des Moines and Seattle freeways, convincing all those motorists to help.
West of the Cascades
@Jen R: this is just too funny. I have yet to see how the conspiracy theorists explain the birth notice in the Honolulu newspapers of a son to Mr & Mrs Barack H Obama on August 4, 1961? Some sort of time-traveling by the current President to plant a birth notice in 1961 so he could run for president in 2008?
OK, teh google works its magic and it seems there are literally dozens of conspiracy sites that “explain” this … http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=1535 … apparently the birth notices are cut-and-paste jobs, created in the 21st century and then sent “viral” from Obama-run websites, and aren’t really from microfiche or dusty old original copies of the local papers.
Whackos. I agree with everyone who thinks that the more time and money they spend on this, the better it is for the rest of the country.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Brick Oven Bill:
This is a joke, right?
I’m actually not sure if you’re some sort of performance artist, but taking you at face value:
You’re thinking of “African American”. Obama’s father was not African-American, he was African. From Africa.
Do you think that there were never any African students on US campuses before the 80s?
No, Americans weren’t commonly referred to as “African-American” in the 60s. Yes, however, people from Africa were called Africans.
Oy.
smiley
@smiley: Link. Scroll to the bottom.
Dennis-SGMM
I’m just amazed that the 2008 Republican party and Hillary Clinton, both having far more resources and far more to gain by disproving Obama’s citizenship, are going to be shown up by BOB and WorldNet Daily.
TR
Rather than spend time rebutting this, I think I’m just going to have this response framed and hung on my wall as a testament to the utter fucking stupidity of conservatives.
Louise
Y’know, I can remember despairing over the fact that the country had elected The Shrub as President, and as a [then] denizen of Texas, I knew that the press hadn’t paid nearly enough attention to the National Guard story, the cocaine, the failed businesses, etc…
But despite the fact that every damn day with GWB as President seemed worse than the day before, I did get on with my life. In time, I campaigned for Dean — which was FOR something rather than against — and then for Obama.
I mean, c’mon, morons — move FORWARD. If you don’t like/trust/support the guy, then like/trust/support someone else. Sheesh.
As Silent Bob so eloquently said to Jay in the diner in Chasing Amy, “DO something.”
Martin
No, it’s about his mom’s citizenship, which really isn’t in dispute. Unless you can prove that his mom wasn’t a US citizen, then Obama is a natural born US citizen no matter where in the world he was born. The birth certificate only adds a 2nd means by which he is a natural citizen.
They put whatever you want on the form. There isn’t some database of acceptable terms that they pull from. It was a secretary at the hospital with a typewriter. And I hate to point this little tidbit out, but in the black community they make a distinction between descendent of slaves and being from Africa. ‘Black and proud’ wasn’t an African thing – it was a 2nd+ generation black American thing. In fact, there’s a decent sized population of the black community that doesn’t quite consider Obama to be the first black president (they’re not unhappy by any means) but until the nation elects a descendent of slaves, so that history becomes part of the conversation, they’re going to keep working.
But I don’t know why none of you retards can accept that the kids of a US citizen are US citizens.
Dennis-SGMM
@Bill E Pilgrim: @TR:
Africa was discovered in 1983 by Ronald Reagan in the course of his historic voyage to take pictures of the edge of the flat earth.
Joshua Norton
Given the brilliant success of their teabagging efforts, their only real-world sign option is “We’ve got nothing.”
Mnemosyne
Looks like it’s time to get the list back together of all of the agencies that would have had to conspire together to conceal Obama’s lack of a birth certificate:
Punahoe Academy
Occidental College
Columbia University
Harvard University
US Department of Education
US State Department
University of Chicago
US Senate
Illinois Senate
State of Illinois
Secretary of State of Hawaii
Internal Revenue Service
Social Security Administration
Yes, believing that all of those agencies worked together to form an airtight conspiracy is much more rational than believing that the birth certificate that Obama produced was his actual birth certificate.
Martin
No, they acknowledge it. See, President Obama in 2021, after being elected to his 4th term following the successful deployment of MarxNet sends a cyborg back in time to 1961 to plant the announcement in the newspaper and kill the parents of every Senate and Presidential candidate that would later have defeated him.
Occams razor, and all that.
Herb
Brick Oven Bill:
Ignoring your suspicions, I wanted to comment on this:
“My understanding TR is that the ‘Birth Certificate’ was only released to be viewed by some state official, who then claimed it was valid. I would be careful about putting too much faith in State politicians, especially when there is something in it for them.”
You do understand how these things work, right? When a state official says something is valid, then it is officially valid.
For your information, the “state official” who said the birth certificate was valid was not a “politician.” Her name is Chiyome L. Fukino, MD and she’s the Health Director for Hawaii’s Department of Health.
Now if you have evidence that she’s lying, please…share it with us. I’m sure most of the Balloon Juice audience is capable of being persuaded by evidence.
Are you?
smiley
@Martin:
The factcheck.org article I linked to addresses that also.
wasabi gasp
@Brick Oven Bill: The birth certificate seekers won’t be satisfied until Obama pulls a bone from his nose, unscrews its secret compartment, and unfurls a document written in goats blood.
sgwhiteinfla
I am not home so I can’t find this but I think the better story is that Phillip J Berg, uber birther, is suing the shit out of his former birther partner in crime Dr Orly because she is a liar and a crook and a kook. But of course, so is he. Somebody PLEASE google the lawsuit because its bust a gut funny when you see all of the things he alledges Orly did. I remember about a month ago someone here linked to Dr Orly’s site the night that the webmaster took it over because Orly had defamed her and allowed all comments through without moderation. And the lawsuit I guess is the end result of that night so whomever that was thank you for linking to her site that night.
Comrade Darkness
@Brick Oven Bill: 1. He got caught up in a bad fake back when he was playing by Chicago standards, and it is too late to come back with a good fake meeting federal standards;
No person retains their original birth certificate. The county or state where you are born holds the original. You are given a certified copy upon request. What Obama has in his hands doesn’t matter one whit.
Dennis-SGMM
There’s no better way to present your bona fides in challenging someones birth certificate than to present your own. So, BOB, whip it or STFU and move on to other foolishness.
Comrade Darkness
What I really like about this is how fantastically clever his mom was about registering the birth in the local newspaper. Can you imagine the foresight? Parents like that should also have bought 100 initial shares in Microsoft, and placed a 10k on Mind that Bird.
JasonF
@Brick Oven Bill:
You forgot
3. HE ALREADY PRODUCED HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, WHICH WAS AUTHENTICATED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII!
Facts are not multiple choice. You don’t get to pretend Barack Obama hasn’t produced hsi brith certificate simply because you really wish he weren’t president and want to find some easy way to get hm out of the White House. That’s not the way it works.
KRK
@sgwhiteinfla:
The go-to site for monitoring (and mocking) all the birther nonsense, including the intra-conspiracy battles, is Patrick McKinnion’s Yes to Democracy. His posts on the Berg v. Taitz lawsuit start from May 5.
Edited to add that my favorite “theory” Patrick has unearthed among the conspiracy supporters is that Ronald Reagan is actually alive and well, his Alzheimers has been cured (if it ever existed), and he will return to the presidency once Obama has been deported/imprisoned.
Brick Oven Bill
I have read a number of black history-types on the nomenclature of people of African descent which all concur with this Wikipedia article:
By that time, the majority of blacks were U.S.-born, so use of the term “African” became problematic. Though initially a source of pride, many blacks feared its continued use would be a hindrance to their fight for full citizenship in the US. They also felt that it would give ammunition to those who were advocating repatriating blacks back to Africa. In 1835 black leaders called upon black Americans to remove the title of “African” from their institutions and replace it with “Negro” or “Colored American”.
‘Negro’ and ‘colored’ gave rise to ‘black’ in the late 1960, and a return to ‘African’ on 1980s college campuses.
It is never the crime, it is the cover-up Martin. His alleged non-Citizen status is a result of a technicality about his mother residing in the US for 4 instead of 5 years after the age of 13. Nixon got in trouble for using the machinery of the state to protect himself, after a fairly minor incident. Lying about one’s eligibility to sit in the President’s seat takes things to a whole different level.
JL
@sgwhiteinfla: I think Littlebrit brought it to out attention. Politico was the first to talk about the lawsuit
I hope this link works.
Joshua Norton
Do they think that McCain would become Pres. by default? Even if their fantasy was remotely related to any reality as we know it, Biden would step into office. And believe me, nobody wants that.
Comrade Darkness
@Louise, God, remember how Dan Bartlett in 99 baldfaced told the press Bushboy had finished his last 6 months of duty in Boston and the “journalists” just rolled over begged to lick the bottom of his other shoe?
Those were the days.
But yeah. You move on by getting active with the intent to never let it happen again. But you also never forget. That way you can smirk like Cheney when their crappy papers go under because they’ve totally abandoned the goddamnjob their supposed to be doing.
OriGuy
@sgwhiteinfla: Yes to Democracy has been covering this thoroughly. Berg is suing Orly, Orly is suing her former webmistress, and both of them have lost so many lawsuits already that they look like the Detroit Tigers of the legal profession.
Dennis-SGMM
Grassy knoll…cross of gold… sinister forces…sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids…supremacy of the white race…fluoridated water…remember the Maine…54 40 or fight…
sgwhiteinfla
Thanks Littlebrit! I am telling you, that court fight is actually better than the birther mess.
sublime33
This is typical ultra-right wing recipe:
a) Start with a favorable scenario – if Obama wasn’t born in the United States, one can argue that he isn’t a natural born citizen.
b) Backfill “facts” that fit the scenario – See, his father was not a US citizen, so if he was born in Kenya, he isn’t a natural born citizen.
c) Force them to prove a negative – Prove you weren’t in Kenya when you were born.
d) Ignore any evidence that disproves your theory – things like birth certificates from Honolulu hospitals.
If John McCain had won, should the left had demanded his father have DNA evidence matched to John? Because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, so if his father was someone else, it could have been a foreigner, which means that McCain was not a naturalized US citizen either. Now if his mom was knocked up by someone else who WAS a US citizen, I guess it would be OK. But I demand that John McCain PROVE that his father is really who he claims it was.
Yes, that is nuts too.
Herb
Brick Oven Bill,
Earlier I asked if you could be persuaded by evidence. When I read this:
“Lying about one’s eligibility to sit in the President’s seat takes things to a whole different level.”
I realized that the answer is no. I hope you realize this debate isn’t “left versus right.” It’s a debate between people who can accept facts, and those who can’t.
Clearly you are in the latter category…
sgwhiteinfla
Off topic but considering the guy who got pushed didn’t get hurt too bad and had a cushion out underneath him, how many people would have wanted to do what Lai did?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/23/passerby-pushes-potential_n_207064.html
JL
Yesterday BOB said “Cheney seems to be an honest man. I respect him.” Today he questions Obama’s citizenship. He’s off his medication again.
Wile E. Quixote
@Wingnutopia
Yeah, because I know for sure that as soon as enough of these billboards go up and a critical mass is reached that the liberals who live in large metro areas San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Seattle are going to turn on Obama and vote for a Republican in 2012. Especially in places like L.A. County, which has gone Democratic in the last six presidential elections and in 14 of the last 20 presidential elections. And I know that things are going to change in Seattle as well. Sure, people used to joke that there were “47 states in the Union and the Soviet of Washington” but once the truth about Obama’s birth certificate is revealed Seattle will become as red as, well wait, I’m confused, the reds were the communnists, but not they’re the Republicans, Washington State is actually blue now. Fuck, where was I going with this? Never mind. Wolverines!
Echoes with Bunnies or Men
Oh, fuck Brick Oven Manboobs. He is a parody troll…right?
asiangrrlMN
If we really want to talk about where people were born, let’s talk about where John McCain was born. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936. There are legitimately more questions about his nationality than there are about Obama’s. Here is an NYT article on the subject.
The thing is, it doesn’t matter. All this boils down to is, “Oh my god! He’s a black man, and he’s president!” Nothing more, and nothing less.
Damn. sublime33 beat me to it.
Echoes with Bunnies or Men, pretty sure B.O.B. is a parody troll, but I never read his shit, anyway.
Brick Oven Bill
It boils down to the Constitution and the rule of law asiangrlMN, but if you love me, I might change.
asiangrrlMN
@Brick Oven Bill: Sorry, B.O.B., it’s not worth the effort.
C Nelson Reilly
This has me rethinking the “Where’s the conscience?” Cheney billboard program I was going to start….
Martin
Which is precisely my point. Obama’s father wasn’t part of the negro/black/african-american community, he was from Africa. Even today an immigrant from Africa won’t call himself an African-American. He’ll call himself an African, just like someone off the plane from Italy will call himself an Italian or European, before he calls himself a caucasian.
You’re hung up on race when people identify with nationality. It’s different here because of slavery, when we had Americans that weren’t considered Americans because of their race. You still see African-Americans, when you should just see Americans.
Seriously, go have a real conversation with people and maybe you’ll learn something.
Dennis-SGMM
@C Nelson Reilly:
Dunno, my “Where’s the WMDs?” billboard program didn’t accomplish much back in ’03.
Martin
No, there really aren’t. McCain’s parents were Americans, McCain is an American. It’s really that simple. He could have been born on Mars and it wouldn’t change a thing.
sublime33
From Brick Oven MrBill”: “It boils down to the Constitution and the rule of law ”
I find it utterly fascinating that the rule of law only applies to Democratic Presidents who took office since 1992. All other presidents are exempt.
Martin
As are all Republicans.
Nylund
Personally, I love the birthers. All they do is further marginalize the right. I literally laughed out loud when I read Brick Oven Bill’s first post.
I can’t imagine something I’d rather have the wingnuts waste their time and money on.
GP
Hey wackjob.. you might not know where the birth certificate is But do you know where your kids were last night ?
Brick Oven Bill
The mother was listed as a ‘Caucasian’, although she was from Kansas, which leads me to believe that consistent with the collection of national statistics, Birth Certificate data was collected on race, not nationality. ‘African’ became a race again in the 1980s.
sublime33
From Martin: “McCain’s parents were Americans, McCain is an American. It’s really that simple. ”
Well you don’t KNOW that McCains father was American. That is why had McCain won, Americans should demand the McCains father be exhumed in order to prove through DNA that he is indeed the president’s father. Because if he wasn’t, his mom just might have gotten knocked up by some foreigner, and since the new president wasn’t born in the US, he would be a bastard president.
At least following the birther’s logic.
Ash Can
@Brick Oven Bill:
I believe that’s known as the “tell.”
gnomedad
In the echo chamber, all the arguments are so slam-dunk that the only conceivable reason anyone is not on their side is that they haven’t heard them (or are godless soshulist America-haters). So once all the real Americans see those billboards, Obama is toast.
Brandon T
@sublime33:
The hilarious thing? The rate of false paternity in the US/worldwide is somewhere between 10 and 30%. What’s the likelyhood of a conspiracy massive enough to cover up a fake birth certificate? The scenario you’re describing is actually FAR more likely than Barack Obama not being a US citizen.
Dulcie
@Martin: When my youngest brother was born in 1970, my mother actually had to fight with the hospital in order for them to define his race as black on his birth certificate. I can’t even imagine some hospital clerk arguing with the mother of a newborn about what she wanted to put on her own child’s BC, but there ya go.
Beauzeaux
Oh please oh please oh PLEASE let them keep chasing their own tails on this “controversy!” Not only does it siphon right-wing money and resources away from any real and practical purpose, it also makes it glaringly obvious to the rest of the sentient world that the rabid anti-Obama brigade are a bunch of pathetically obsessed kooks.
Mike in NC
It’s clearly time for
MiltonB.O.B. to move his desk down into the basement and take care of that cockroach problem. And let’s have that stapler, too.b-psycho
Remember when some Republicans were floating the idea of yanking the born-citizen requirement anyway so Arnold could run?
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
B.O.B., you are truly the most absolute imbecile I have ever encountered. In addition to your other idiocies, such as not being able to tell the difference between “African” and “African-American,” and your fantasy that anyone is walking around with the “vault copy” of their Birth Certificate, I notice you tangentially bringing up again this crap about Obama’s mother having some kind of residence requirement in order to pass along her citizenship to her children.
For the last time, you cretin: She was not a naturalized citizen who had any sort of residence requirement to pass on her acquired citizenship. She was fucking born here! She could have been spirited away to Mars the very next day, raised in a cave 100 miles under Olympus Mons, and been impregnated by Martians, Greys, and Reptoids, and every Goddamn one of those human-alien hybrids would be natural-born American citizens, even if she never set foot in the US again! Christ, you’re an idiot!
Krista
Well, that’s yer problem right there. That ain’t no REAL ‘Murican state…full of furriners, that there Hawaii. Can’t trust ’em, with their grass skirts and their funny words for stuff.
Brick Oven Bill
You are correct when referring to current law The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge. But here is one more to invaginate in your quiver: The law in 1964 was different. It required a mother to reside in the US for five years after her 13th birthday, in order for the automatic Citizenship to which you refer to be conveyed to her child.
The complaint is that she only resided in the US for four years. This is for sure a technicality. What is more significant is the alleged cover-up using fake documentation. That is a big no-no.
jrg
Doesn’t “Mele Kalikimaka” mean “death to America”, or something? It damn sure does not mean “Pass the French’s Mustard”.
JL
I wonder when John will show up pictures of his new pet? He’s been talking about getting a friend for Tunch.
Jay C
@Brick Oven Bill:
1835? OK, and Barack Obama was born – when? 126 years later? Did it ever occur to you that just maybe some changes in nomenclature might happen over a century-and-a-quarter>?
Anyway, dicing your inane “claim” with Occam’s Razor, I think we can agree that Bill E Pilgrim hit on the answer in comment # 37:
oh really
Personally, I won’t rest until I see that G…damed birth certificate. I don’t want no Kenyan running my country (unless I live in Kenya).
THANK YOU, WORLD NUT* DAILY!!!
*sic
Litlebritdifrnt
Actually WND are a little behind the curve because many of the birfers have moved on from the Birth Certificate and now claim that no matter where POTUS was born that he is not an NBC due to the fact that he did not have two parents who were citizens. (Their rationale comes from Vattals “law of nations” which apparently trumps the US Constitution somehow). So in their eagerness and rabid hatred of the current POTUS they have painted themselves into a corner where according to their rules Bobby Jindal is fucked.
Calming Influence
Thetruthisoutthere — fixed.
Notorious P.A.T.
Jesus Christ. People like this didn’t care that Bush became president without getting the most votes, but now they insist that every “i” on Obama’s birth certificate has to be dotted their way.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Brick Oven Bill:
Again and again, you imbecile, that only applies to naturalized citizens. Obama’s mother was FUCKING BORN HERE!!. To parents who were also citizens!! Jesus H. Tapdancing fucking Christ on a shingle!! Buy a fucking brain somewhere!!
And there is no “cover-up using faked documentation.” The documentation has been verified by the relevant authorities.
JL
@Litlebritdifrnt: Since they are hypocrites, Jindal’s parents will be honored for making a better life for their child. Michelle Malkin criticizes immigrants when her own parents came here on a student visa and never returned.
Earlier a commenter asked who had linked to the Berg/Orly lawsuit. I mentioned that I thought it was you. Was I correct?
oh really
A fairly minor incident? That’s rich.
Burglarizing the Democratic National Committee headquarters was a minor incident. Since the obvious intent of the crime was to gain an advantage over the Democrats in the ’72 election, and, if necessary, guarantee the result, not only is that not a “minor” incident, it strikes at the very core of our system. And what Nixon was covering up was not simply a single botched breaking and entering caper, but a whole range of crimes and abuses including, but not necessarily limited to, burglary, illegal wiretapping, illegal financial activities that included money laundering, and more.
Minor? Okay, maybe it was minor compared with some of Nixon’s other crimes, but calling it minor reveals either profound ignorance, profound stupidity, profound partisanship, or both.
I’m going to go out on a limb here…all of the above.
This is the kind of stupidity that makes today’s Republicans not just stupid, but insane and dangerous.
Anne Laurie
I figured it was the old-school version of spamboting. Anyone dumb/ignorant enough to follow up on these billboards is dumb enough to buy gold bricks from Nigeria sight unseen, or at least to join the next pyramid scam selling the secret to permanent weight loss without dieting or exercise. So, are the guys running WND “clever” enough to come up with this scheme on their own, or are they being played by a third party who’s convinced them that the worthy fReichtard denizens of Los Angeles and Seattle totally deserve to get in on the ground floor?
Calming Influence
@CapMidnight:
For God’s sake, don’t encourage even more wingnuttery. We’re entering the most beautiful time of the year in the Pacific Northwest. We don’t need to see that shit.
shirt
B.O.B. You’ve been very entertaining but don’t forget to check the kerning on that certificate!
Anne Laurie
P.S. “Vault Copy” would be an excellent name for a rock band, or a pretty good name for a blog…
Laura W
And that’s why I hang around here.
Litlebritdifrnt
@JL: Correct
and it was Politijab that first published about the lawsuit not politico. The lawyers, et., al., over at Politijab have been all over the birfers (particularly Berg and Orly) like white on rice for some time. It is a joy to behold. In case anyone is interested the defendants (Orly, Ed Hale, Linda Starr etc.,) have until next week (depending on which defendant was served when) to either answer or get an extension of time, at this point, cause they haven’t been able to raise enough money to retain (competent counsel) Orly will be representing them, this is a battle royal of possibly the second most incompetent lawyer on the planet suing the first. We in the legal profession are stocking up on popcorn.
Laura W
@Anne Laurie: I say rock band. First CD: Invaginate Your Quiver.
Litlebritdifrnt
PS) be still my beating heart! I just saw my first humming bird of the season (and my feeder isn’t ready yet damnit!). I love this time of year!
Jay C
@Brick Oven Bill:
Just BTW, there’s one more point you should elaborate on (assuming there IS a point in all this ludicrous trollery):
Unless Stanley Ann Dunham’s Wikipedia page has been surreptitiously (and retroactively) re-edited by the Illuminati, or space aliens or whoever, it looks as if Barack Obama’s mother was born in the US (Kansas), and lived here in various places (including Hawaii, which was a US State) from birth until her 24th or 25th year – well after she was 13 – only relocating to Indonesia in “1966 or 1967”. So she was an American woman, an American citizen born to American citizens, and lived in America for the first quarter-century of her life. During which time she had a child – who is also an American citizen, under the laws current at the time. What’s your problem with this simple concept?
Tonal Crow
Yesterday I was sitting under my bridge. I was observing the traffic passing overhead on my video surveillance system. Video surveillance systems are very helpful. They can show you when someone is trying to cross without paying. Very few people cross my bridge without paying. There is a vault copy of my birth certificate just below the red lettering that says “Stop! Pay troll!” Until I got it, I believed that trolls hatched from large, leathery, magenta-brown eggs. This is persuasive evidence that “global warming” is bunk.
/BOB
Beauzeaux
Might as well ask what his problem is with the simple fact that Obama really was born in Hawaii and has always been an American citizen.
Little Dreamer
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Oh goody!
Regarding the billboards: well, isn’t that just precious?
Regarding BOB’s insane rantings: I always knew he had it in him.
Carry on! I’ve never laughed so hard in my entire life.
Faux News
Same here. I long ago stopped reading any of his boring Troll bullshit. In fact even if he responds to my post I wont even know it as I simply scroll down as soon as I see his/her/its name.
I prefer Paul L. for my BJT (Balloon Juice Troll). He is improving a bit and even will sometimes post more than once on the same thread!
Little Dreamer
@oh really:
Well of course, if a Republican did it, the crime is minimized to a minor infraction; meanwhile a black baby born in the early 1960’s in Honolulu, HI is considered to be a criminal, terrorist and foreigner because he ascended to the presidency.
asiangrrlMN
@Martin: #75, sorry, you’re right. I didn’t state the concern correctly. The US president must be born in the United States. John McCain was not born in the states. He qualifies because of some law designating certain areas outside the states in which an American can be born and still be president. I am not questioning McCain’s right to run for prez: I am just saying there is more gray area with him than with Obama.
Little Dreamer
Ummm BOB? Stanley Ann Dunham DID reside in the US for those five years, she moved to Hawaii in 1960, Hawaii became the 50th state of the union in 1959.
SrirachaHotSauce
@Brick Oven Bill:
Give it up Bob. You know and I know that the birth certificate thing is just a cover for the fact that you are a racist piece of shit who can’t stand the idea of a ni**er in the White House.
And as long as you post here, and keep this shit up, I will be here to say so.
Tell the truth for once in your fucking mentally ill life. Just once, tell the fucking truth. You will feel a lot better.
Old Gringo
You know, BOB, the original purpose of birth registration was for tax purposes and for the determination of available military manpower to subjugate the citizenry, or as we at WorldNet Daily call them, The Sheeple. It’s part of The New World Order and Creeping Socialism. We should resist it to our last breath with our last drop of blood.
kay
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
This is the second time I have read this particular person explain this to this particular birther.
shoutingattherain
You bet I would:
CLICK
Sasha
It really doesn’t matter: those billboards aren’t meant for the public at large, they’re for the true believers of the base who know exactly what’s being discussed.
Think of them as broadcasts from Radio Free America after Day 125 of the unlawful occupation of the United States by the Obamanation.
IndieTarheel
@kay:
All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
And again, and again, and again…
tavella
Bizarrely enough, Martin, this is not true. McCain was not an American citizen at birth under the laws of his time. As Congress defined it at the time, anyone born on US soil was a citizen, and anyone born of US parents abroad was a citizen. However, a series of decisions (the Penninsular cases) had determined that the Canal Zone was not US soil for the purposes of citizenship, but it was *also* not foreign.
The year after McCain’s birth, Congress realized they had fucked up, and wrote a law including the Panama Zone, and making the change retroactive. The question, of course, being then — are you a natural born citizen if you weren’t a citizen when you were born?
Now, this didn’t really become an issue because A) Democrats aren’t nuts and saw neither justice nor profit in trying to deny the natural-born citizenship of the children of US military folk on a oversight in the laws, and B) it’s highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would inject itself in such a case.
Rainboskies
People,people….Obama is not a “n@##er”; he is officially a mullatto(sp?). Remember, he’s half black/white. So, the “your a racist” argument doesn’t fly. In his own words, his father was Kenyan, under British territory. Obama’s citizenship comes from his father…no matter IF he was born in Hawaii or not. So, why hasn’t using facts from Dreams from my Father, used in lawsuits; without having to verify his birth certificate? I dunno, but why has Obama spent close to $1M for lawyers, defending the suppression of his birth certificate, school records, etc, unless he has something to hide? Why don’t people get that?? He and Congress in the last 120 days, have wrecked this country. Yeah I want him out, him and the entire House and Senate.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@kay:
Sorry, Kay. It is a repeat. He just will not acknowledge that this “residence requirement” he’s on about doesn’t apply to natural-born citizens.
@asiangrrlMN:
This is a very common misconception. I grew up believing this, as did many, many people including John McCain, apparently. That’s why they came up with that first, forged birth certificate for him that indicated he was born in the Canal Zone, a US territory. When it was pointed out that that had him being born in a hospital that wouldn’t be built until 20 years later, they produced a new birth certificate. Apparently someone had advised him in the interim that he was eligible as long as even one of his parents was a citizen, so it presumably told the truth and said he was born in Panama, but outside the Canal Zone. Unfortunately, that did not make him ineligible, any more than being born in Kenya (in the wingnut fantasy world) would have made Obama ineligible.
dmsilev
Look everyone, a baby troll! Mom, Dad, he followed me home, can I keep him? I promise to feed him and punish him and make fun of him and everything!! Can I can I can I can I?
-dms
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
“His citizenship comes from his father?” It doesn’t matter that his mother was a natural-born citizen? OK, that’s a new one in the annals of stupidity.
Because, asswipe, that is not happening except in the diseased imaginations of wingnuts like you.
Rainboskies
‘skewsme Rev, such language!!
Yes, he HAS spent close to one million in lawyers fees…..
His mother had not reached legal age, left the U.S., and therefore, Obama was not a “Natural Born Citizen”. How did he get the name Barry Sotero? And how did he come to legally use Barack Obama? Just some questions. Questions that no one wants to answer………..
kay
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
Don’t apologize. I learned a lot from the original exchange, and this one is entertaining too.
This one is better. Excellent use of cuss words.
kay
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
I think we should buy you a billboard. I would pay to read that.
kay
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
I think we should buy you a billboard. I would pay to read that.
Delia
@Brick Oven Bill:
Aha! This subtle fact leads me to conclude she was actually from the Caucasus and therefore not a US citizen at all.
/whackjob
Ed Circusitch
The official spelling of the presidents name is actually O’Bama. He’s Irish.
kay
@Rainboskies:
Oh, horseshit. Show me the billing. Al Franken spent 161k against Coleman and Obama/Biden spent one million defending against a dentist who never got past summary judgment?
Horseshit.
Rainboskies
Kay…..
Family Security Matters » Publications » Exclusive: Obama Attorney …Apr 15, 2009 … [Editor’s note: Barack Obama’s lawyer, Robert F. Bauer, … by the Obama legal team at a reported cost of as much as one million dollars. … in this letter to an existing valid Birth Certificate for Barack Obama, …
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2996/pub_detail.asp – 36k
Neeeigh….
Evolutionary
Actually the 4 or 5 year thing is probably irrelevant for President Obama’s mother living outside the US. A mere law can’t trump the US Constitution. The phrase “Natural Born Citizen” would mean what the framer’s of the Constitution thought it meant. That is if you are a pure original intent (or Original meaning ala A. Scalia) wingnut. Look then to English common law.
Little Dreamer
@Rainboskies:
Ignorance must be bliss, I tell ya!
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Rainboskies:
This story about the million dollars in lawyers’ fees was just made up by Rash Limprod or some other smegma-spewing fucktard and you swallowed it as it spewed out of their ass. It never happened!
It doesn’t fucking matter that she left the country before legal age because she was a natural-born citizen, not a naturalized citizen!
And Obama and Congress in the last 120 days, have tried to reverse some of the damage that Reagan/Bush and then Bush/Cheney did in 28 years. It’s probably impossible. But YOU don’t get to complain about it! It was your guys who destroyed the country, and the grownups are trying to shovel some of the shit out from in front of the front door. So just show a little shame and STFU!
kay
@Rainboskies:
The judge had threatened Rule 11 sanctions, in the case that was dismissed on summary judgment.
That’s what Obama’s lawyer is referring to. It’s a perfectly ethical and valid issue to raise. You can’t sue people over and over, when you lose. It’s an ethical issue. That’s why there’s a sanction.
I don’t see the billing. One million dollars is a lot of money. Ain’t no way they spent that defending a case kicked on summary judgment.
With a dentist on the other side.
Rainboskies
Reverend, what exactly are you in reverence to, delusion??
Obama said yesterday, we are broke.
“I’m closing Gitmo, but give me $80M to open up another one on American soil.
He approved taxpayer money to pay for abortions overseas
He now owns GM and banks
“I’m against using EIT unless I deem that we need to use EIT”
“I’m not allowing lobbyists, unless I want to hire some to run departments,” like say Defense Procurement?
He doesn’t allow white journalists into his award ceremony from the Black Journalist Assoc….so whose racist?
I could keep going…..he’s a poser on the grand scale of posing
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Rainboskies:
OK, none of this crap is true. You have to start listening to somebody other than the right-wing AM radio howler monkeys. Seriously. Your brain has completely turned to mush.
Rainboskies
Kay…
I haven’t seen the billing, but I have no reason not to believe he has hired lawyers to defend these suits. And as far as the suits go, NOT ONE SUIT has verified his birth certificate. The suits have either been dropped, dismissed, whatever the legal mumbo jumbo they use, but I don’t see how Section 11 can apply.
So, we at least agree he has hired lawyers for these cases, so my point stands. Why doesn’t he just spend the $12 or $15 to produce a valid certificate. I had to produce my sons’ Cert. to play little league.
Rainboskies
Okay, Reverend, I fell for your game. You don’t state your case with facts, you just throw words around and name-call. You won, is that what makes you happy?
kay
@Rainboskies:
I can go on, too. I read the pleadings. The dentist and Mr. Berg were not admitted in the federal court where they filed the lawsuit. That means they needed a lawyer who is admitted to sign the pleadings.
The judge spanked the poor dupe-lawyer who is admitted, and who these charlatans convinced to sign, when he tossed this ridiculous lawsuit. That’s who was threatened with sanctions. Not Berg and the dentist. The dummy who signed for Berg and the dentist. Berg and the dentist also accused a court clerk of deleting electronic filings. The judge wasn’t happy about that.
When you lose, you have to quit. You lost. Maybe you can beat him in 2012. I doubt it. You’re nuts.
kay
@Rainboskies:
One million dollars is a specific number. You people just pulled it out of your ass, yet you refer to it constantly. Like your whole stupid theory, it’s based on nothing.
Say 100 million. Why not? It’s all pretend anyway.
Beauzeaux
“I haven’t seen the billing, but I have no reason not to believe he has hired lawyers to defend these suits.”
And presto! That proves he spent a MILLION DOLLARS on legal defense!
Or not.
Rainboskies
Kay,
I could give you several references of the “near $1M spent”, but would you believe those references? I can’t find it on ABC,NBC, NYT, so I guess it’s not true, huh?
Rep. Bill Posey, Fla, has introduced a bill that all candidates for Presidents, IN THE FUTURE must be vetted by birth certificate, any senatorial records, school records, etc, before a person is verified to hold the Offic of President. So, yes, maybe Obama, if not thrown into jail, wouldn’t be able to run in 2012. We can all hope…for change.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Rainboskies:
You wouldn’t know a fact if it bit you on the ass.
Absolute crap. He wants to put them in several maximun-security federal prisons that have already been built, but the pants-pissing right thinks they’ll use their terrist sooperpowers to break out of anyplace they put them. Never mind that Gitmo was just a chain-link fence at first.
He overruled the Republican rule that denied federal money to any international organization that performed or recommended abortions. So?
This is so completely laughable, I don’t know how you could even get it out. He gave the bankster parasites who destroyed our economy trillions of dollars with no strings…so yeah, that was a mistake. Problem for you is, it was Bush who made it. And he does not “own GM.” Are you on crack?
He said we will not torture prisoners any more, and gave the Bush/Cheney miscreants an opportunity to skate on their crimes. All they had to do was STFU and wait for it to blow over. It appears they can’t. Cheney is going to talk himself into the dock at the Hague yet.
He’s hired a few lobbyists to work in his administration, yeah. That’s not the same as the Republican penchant for hiring lobbyists advocating the destruction of a given department to run it.
I don’t know what you’re talking about here, but it’s sp obviously made up I can’t be arsed looking it up.
Brian J
This reminds of me that episodes of “The Simpsons” where George Bush Sr. moves to Springfield and starts a feud with Bart and Homer. I believe it was after the bottle rocket attack that Bush put up a spray painted sign with very crudely drawn faces that could have been anyone. After being questioned by Dr. Hibert and Ned Flanders, who thought it might have been them, Bush took it down in anger.
These people are going to have the same sort of problem. As a number of people have said, almost nobody is going to know what the fuck that sign is supposed to mean. Hell, I’d be willing to bet that they could put it in downtown D.C. and less than half the people would know what it meant. If the sign had read “Where is the birth certificate, Obama?” it would make a lot more sense. Most people would still be in the dark about the specific “controversy,” but at least they would know what it’s in reference to. As it stands, these idiots are just pissing their money down a hole. Epic, epic fail.
teapotdome
@DougJ
“Why not at least explain whose birth certificate? This is a perfect example of post-wingnut communication.”
Post of the day. LMAO!
teapotdome
“Billboard space is currently being negotiated in Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Sacramento, San Francisco, New York-New Jersey, Des Moines, Seattle and other metro areas.”
They should be putting the board up in places like Sheepphucker County, OK…you know, the kind of places that get 6 electoral votes to your 1 because you live in a “wicked” city.
asiangrrlMN
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: There has been much debate about whether a person has to be born in the states or not because of this clause:
Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
That’s why what tavella at #125 happened. There is a murkiness that could allow the constitution to be read that the president can only be a natural-born citizen.
Oh, and I can’t wait to see the arguments that start when a woman wins because the language of the Constitution only says “he” for president.
asiangrrlMN
Oh, kay and The Very Reverend, you are infinitely more patient with the deliberately ignorant and obtuse than am I.
kay
@Rainboskies:
I hate the word “vetted”. I feel it’s indicative of your whole screwed up authoritarian mindset, which is summed up in “papers please!”.
You’re the people who love trooper roadblocks, because they “keep us safe” and the people who pose ridiculous questions and insist other people “provide proof” to rebut them, or you’ll sue them.
That’s backwards. You know that, right? I don’t have to “rebut” everything that comes out of your fevered imagination, and either does Obama. That isn’t how it works. Whatever your paranoid suspicions are, you have to get past summary judgment or shut up.
You lost. You didn’t meet even that bar.
Roving attorney’s general, self-deputized citizen police officers, peering into people’s windows and making up gossip, that’s the mindset that produces lawsuits like this. Trash-picking, nasty people looking to throw enough dirt that some of it sticks.
Why don’t you-all quit bugging everybody? Don’t you have something productive to contribute?
LD50
Have the meds been helping with that?
Rainboskies
Reverend
Obama did ask for money to close Gitmo, but was denied by Congress. I was wrong on thinking it was a new facility, only it was money to TRANSFER them, wow, whats that $320,000 per detainee to move? Are they flying out on Air Force One?
You didnt like my answer on him owning GM…well, what would yo call a person who had the capacity to fire CEOs? He did just that at GM
Abortions, shouldn’t be paid out of taxpayers money, in ANY country.
The lobbyists point and EIT statements were brought out to show Obama’s hypocrisy.
Do a search for his award ceremony;take the time. You may experience on epiphany
LD50
Why are you convinced the state of Hawaii is lying about this?
And how do you think he pulled off that notice in that Hawaii newspaper when he was 3 days old?
So you’re only HALF of a racist shithead?
A shame the people you voted for LOST, dickhead.
Dennis-SGMM
@kay:
If we could only return to the cartes blanches of Louis XVI.
LD50
I think they figure it’d invalidate the entire Obama administration, so the presidency would somehow magically default to Sarah Palin.
teapotdome
@asiangrrlMN
“Oh, and I can’t wait to see the arguments that start when a woman wins because the language of the Constitution only says “he” for president.”
Now, now, let’s not give the wingnuts and the Strict Obstructionists any more crazy ideas…
Jack
When I read things like this (from WND), I’m just a little dismayed that I’m reading it in perfect English. I just don’t understand how people can be this fucking dumb and still have proper grammar, much less the ability to dress themselves.
Does anyone else have thoughts like this? And I’m completely serious; every time I read shit from wingnuts, I just can’t fathom that I live in the same dimension as them.
DC
it struck me as regarding Palin’s grandson
kay
@Dennis-SGMM:
I’m going to file a complaint in federal court tomorrow that states that I have a claim relating to John McCain’s eligibility as a Senator. I can file that, and it’s a public record. I’ll rely on interpleader, which is what these morons relied on.
Then I can point to my complaint, until it’s dismissed, hell, AFTER it’s dismissed, and insist it’s valid, because John McCain has not rebutted my claim.
That’s what they did here. It’s despicable. The claim becomes the evidence of the act asserted. It’s insane.
It’s a way of thinking. Guilty until proven innocent.
LD50
I dunno, I think a Biden presidency would be pretty damn funny.
Rainboskies
Kay…I don’t agree with roadblocks. People are probably distrustful of “the law”, because they no longer just respond to crimes, they go out looking for them, i.e. roadblocks.
Remember, the President works for us. Citizens asking him to prove he’s eligible to be President, is like your employer asking you to show your SS card or take a piss test. Some things you just gotta do to keep your job. Obama is not above the law, or Bush or Clinton, etc.
And you made a good point about “bugging everybody” Thats what, I think, WND is trying to accomplish. This issue is NOT going away, no matter how long it takes.
Rainboskies
LD50
I don’t know this is a fact, but newspapers once had sections called Public Announcements. The info. for these announcements came automatically from court and hospital records. Private indivs. did not submit them. So, if Obama’s mama, registered his birth, the newspaper would glean that info. from official records. I don’t really know the answer to that one.
Rainboskies
LD50, or is that LD25?
Im not a racist shithead.
State of Hawaii only said that they have Obamas birth certificate on file. Thats it. Nothing else. They have it on file.
I was torn between voting for Chuck Baldwin; I really like his views, but felt it would be a “lost vote”. I ended up voting for McCain, which I regret, but only voted for him because I didn’t want Obama to win. So, I sold myself out. For nothing.
LD50
Um, so you think that the hospital in Honolulu did *not* send that info to the local newspaper, but rather, Obama’s mother deliberately walked down to the post office in Nairobi, and mailed a bogus birth announcement to Hawaii??
Gee, I can’t imagine why people don’t take you guys more seriously.
Dennis-SGMM
@LD50:
You be nicer to Rainboskies. That’s the future of the Republican party you’re talking to.
Rainboskies
LM50
Maybe Grandma put the ad out. I’m sure she and Obama’s mother had friends in Hawaii they wanted to notify of the birth. Again, speculation. The point is that in 1962, laws were set on who is a natural vs naturalized born citizen. Constitution states to be POTUS one must be a natural born citizen, so is he or is he not? Obama tells us himself his father was Kenyan, so Obama can only be a naturalized and not a natural citizen…
SrirachaHotSauce
Nothing else, like what?
Their legal responsibility is to protect the document and make a copy of it for the parties to it,if requested. That’s it. They are not going to release it to anyone else. They will do the same thing for your birth certificate. That’s their job.
Are you a party to the birth certificate? No? Then you have no right to it. End of story.
SrirachaHotSauce
What a huge surprise.
Something tells me that this isn’t the first, or last, time this will happen.
Anne Laurie
Thank you, Old Gringo — I laughed! Out loud!
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Rainboskies:
How do you type this kind of insane shit? Don’t your fingers jump off your hands in shame? Obama’s mother was a natural-born US citizen, therefore so is he, end of discussion.
Is this “Citizenship comes through the father” BS some new fundie meme we haven’t encountered before? It is 100% WRONG!!
Rainboskies
Im sure Miss HotSauce knows the answers to everything….
As far as selling myself out, at least I can recognize principles and therefore, recognize when I’ve skirted them….
Delia
@Rainboskies: @137
So the website Family Security Matters is your source, huh? That explains a lot. That’s the extremist neocon site dedicated to turning the US into a terror state. Here’s an excerpt from one article that’s since been removed from the site.
For more go here
SrirachaHotSauce
@Rainboskies:
Not everything, but I know this: The lawsuits have run their course, and the birth certificate is the property of the State of Hawaii and they will protect it in the interest of the parties to the birth. You are done. Your recourse is in the courts, not pissing over all the blog and telling people it’s raining.
Take your stupid troll act somewhere else. You are finished here.
Rainboskies
I am a “party to it” HotSauce. I’m a citizen. Apparently, there are people in this country who doubt he’s eligible. Prove it. John McCain was paneled before election to prove that he was a natural born citzen. But lawd, if we ask Obama to prove it.
malraux
@Rainboskies: Wait. if HI has his birth certificate on file, isn’t that literally the end of the story. If its on file, then he was born in HI.
Delia
Now I’m trying to figure out why my last comment is in moderation. No mention of soc*alism. Has this new troll become verboten?
SrirachaHotSauce
No evidence of this has been shown.
You are just another blog bullshit artist.
Delia
Obama posted a copy of his birth certificate during the election season. The state of Hawaii authenticated it. That is enough for any rational person who is willing to be convinced by evidence. Ergo, anyone else is not a rational person willing or able to be convinced by evidence. There’s no purpose served by talking to trolls who have a vested interest in not being convinced.
SrirachaHotSauce
Yeah. That’s funny. Just visit any Clerk of the Court document counter in the country and ask them who can get a copy of a birth certificate. Hint: If your name isn’t on the birth certificate, then you are not a party to it. Unless you are a judge or have a court order or a warrant, you are done.
Meanwhile, go away and STFU. You don’t know what you are talking about.
gwangung
Wrong.
YOU made the accusation. YOU support it.
Rainboskies
Malraux…..A birth certifcate is on file…but no one knows what it says, i.e. where he was born, hospital, doctors name, etc. Hawaii allows you to register, even an out-of-country birth, and receives a Certificate of Live Birth. Not the same as a Birth Certificate.
http://www.Libertypost.org has some good articles tonight, concerning this.
Dennis-SGMM
@Rainboskies:
Is this really, at long last all you have? The Governor and the Secretary of the State of Hawaii attested to the validity of Obama’s birth certificate and that’s not enough? Maybe we should bring in the Pope or maybe Rush Limbaugh. If you people held your own ideas to the same standards of proof you’d be a threat rather than a diminishing crowd of racist jerk-offs.
gwangung
Wrong. State of Hawaii knows. AND THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS.
Try again. You made the accusation. You better support it.
SrirachaHotSauce
State of Hawaii.
The end.
SrirachaHotSauce
@Rainboskies:
Go away. Your troll has failed. You have no idea WTF you are talking about.
Rainboskies
Reverend
So, Obamas mother makes him a natural US citizen, so what do we call the other half of him, from his Kenyan father. Or doesn’t sperm count?
SrirachaHotSauce
@Rainboskies:
Your troll fu is weak and has been defeated.
Dennis-SGMM
Only if you’re a dick.
Rainboskies
Delia….the State of Hawaii authenticated what? You mean the pictures on the internet? No, they didn’t. And thats all anyones seen. Hawaii did state they have his birth certificate on file, but didn’t not give any information as to what the b.c. contained.
I used the Family Security Matters as reference because it wasn’t WND or just a blog reference. I don’t read this site, and did not know it was a neocon site; only that it fit my search. But if you do your own, you will see other references listed.
I mentioned earlier that http://www.Libertypost.org has articles tonight (look on the right-hand side of Home Page for list of Articles) about the birth certificate issue.
Dennis-SGMM
@Rainboskies:
Relax, false troll.
Delia
(Why do I even bother, knowing that the troll is not asking a serious question? Anyhoo. . . .) This depends on the laws of Kenya regarding dual citizenship, of which I am ignorant. But that doesn’t affect the US laws governing his US citizenship. I expect if he had the option of dual citizenship in any other nation he has long since renounced it. In my family my sister is married to an Australian national. He’s spent most of his working life in the US but on many overseas projects. Their daughter was born in Jordan and their son in the US. Both have joint US-Australian citizenship. I expect if either one decided on a career in American politics they’d have to renounce their Australian citizenship. But knowing these two particular young people, that’s not likely to happen.
SrirachaHotSauce
Because that’s the law, you moron. Otherwise identity theft would be available to anyone with the cost of a copy of someone else’s birth certificate. Even an eighth grader could figure this out. Vital records are protected information. You don’t get to see this record unless you get a court order, or somebody shares it with you out of pity for your stupid obsession.
====//
Obama’s Birth Certificate Verified By State
Health Department Receives Multiple Requests For Copies
POSTED: 12:12 pm HST October 31, 2008
UPDATED: 1:26 pm HST November 1, 2008
HONOLULU — The state’s Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.
The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obama’s birth certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth certificate of a person to someone outside of the family.
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record,” DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.
Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.
Fukino said that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama’s certificate be handled differently from any other.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Rainboskies:
Only ONE parent has to be a US citizen to make you one, and it doesn’t matter which one. I know you fundie jackoffs think only sperm counts–tell that to 54% of the voting public. It’ll go over real well.
Rainboskies
Dennis
“If you people held your own ideas to the same standards of proof you’d be a threat rather than a diminishing crowd of racist jerk-offs.”
Again, people who either don’t like what you say or can’t rebut with facts, use name calling. And yes, PROOF is what some people use for FACTS.
Having a birth certificate on file, with no one to see it, doesn’t prove anything. Okay, so it’s been authenticated that a birth cert. is on file…doesn’t prove ifs he’s a NATURAL BORN citizen or a NATURALIZED CITIZEN. You can’t be Prez if your’e a NATURALIZED citizen.
Delia
@Rainboskies:
No, oh Idiot Child. They authenticated the actual Hawaiian birth certificate. Now I think I’ll go back to the other thread and discuss tomatoes, which is actually a topic of consequence.
Wile E. Quixote
Damnit! Rainboskies and BOB are on to us. We need to find out where they live and arrange “accidents” for them ASAP, just like we did for Vince Foster, all of those witnesses who claimed that there were shooters on the Grassy Knoll and the Triple Overpass and everyone who could have blown the whistle on Bill Clinton.
El Cid
I have a proof of how to square the circle. All of you who fail to prove that I’m wrong are wrong.
SrirachaHotSauce
You need to sit down with a good probate lawyer, at his standard rate of $200-300 and hour, and discuss this. You will quickly find out that you have no fucking idea in the world what you are talking about.
Birth certificates are never “proof” of anything by themselves. They are declarations, nothing more.
For all you know, I could be your father. Your birth certificate can say that somebody else declared himself to be your father at birth, but anyone can make that declaration and no proof of any kind is necessary. As long as the birth mother agrees to the declaration, it gets written down and recorded. The thing may establish legal paternity is some situations, but it does not establish genetic paternity.
A birth certficate is nothing more than a record of declarations made by people. This is always the case. These declarations may have legal relevance later but they do not “prove” anything.
If you think I am wrong, hire a good probate lawyer and learn on your own nickel.
Wile E. Quixote
@Rainboskies
Dude, I’ve got some bad news for you. Even if Obama were a Kenyan, which is bullshit, I’d still rather have him as president than a draft-dodging, bible-beating faggot like Chuck Baldwin.
Rainboskies
Thank you, Delia….You brought out the difference between Natural vs naturalized citizens.
SrirachaHotSauce
Hilarious. Obama, meanwhile, is in fact president, and you are SOL trying to do anything about it.
Take your complaint to court. Put your money where your mouth is. Until then, go away and shut the fuck up.
Dennis-SGMM
@Rainboskies:
You’ve already been rebutted with the facts many times over. @Delia: is right, you’re an Idiot. But, keep coming back: your descent into madness is both amusing and instructive.
Rainboskies
Wile E
You knows. Barry Sotero was an Indonesian. When did that change?
Darkrose
@Rainboskies:
Seriously? Seriously!
What flavor of crack are you smoking, and why haven’t you brought enough to share with the class? Because I know you aren’t trying to argue that U.S. citizenship can only be conferred by the father.
El Cid
Ha we will undo yer illegitmat Kenyan preznitzy by repeating over & over that Soetaro was Indonesian. Yu dont think we’ll win but we will jus like Robt E Lee defeeded all them Yankee bastards and the Souf uz free.
Rainboskies
HotSauce…yes, Obama is President. Thats why some call him a ursurper. I just call him a deceiver.
Darkrose
@Dennis-SGMM:
You win teh interwebs.
Rainboskies
Dennis…I’m not an idiot. What facts did Delia provide to prove that Obama is a natural born citizen and legtimate to fill the Office of Pres?
The only fact would be the relesae of his birth certifcate, and so far, he won’t do it.
El Cid
Bush Jr. wasn’t even fucking elected, had a bunch of Republican assholes on the Supreme Court god-damned hand him and his idiot bunch the Presidency because, well, fuck Al Gore. And nobody could ever reverse that. And the Republican Party of the Dixie Confederacy Uprising seems to seriously think that by moaning that these nobody losers haven’t been given the vault Templar copy of Barack Obama’s birth certificate and his original Social Security card and his ATM card with PIN number and his DNA that eventually the usurper will be reversed and the good and patriot redneck retardifucks will retake the country.
I love it.
Dennis-SGMM
@Rainboskies:
Prove it.
Rainboskies
Darkrose….Well it seems most are conferring all of citzenship to the mother so whats your point?
It seems that people totally leave out the fact that his father was Kenyan. What, just conveniently brush that aside?
SrirachaHotSauce
Whatever. He’s the president.
He will remain the president.
The fact that you don’t like it, notwithstanding.
Go cry somewhere else.
SrirachaHotSauce
Sorry, it’s either believe you, or my lyin’ eyes.
The eyes have it.
Dennis-SGMM
@Darkrose:
Praise from you is a pearl beyond price. Thank you! Every 500 comments I get it right.
Rainboskies
Dennis
Prove myself not an idiot by what, your standards? Don’t make me laugh…..
Ellid
I had a root canal the other day. It was an emergency, so I wanted the very best dentist I could get.
Note that I did not fly out to California to have Orly Taitz work on my teeth…..
Rainboskies
El Cid…what does that mean, Double personality?
AhabTRuler
@Dennis-SGMM: Nope, you get it right more often than that (Cf. @216).
El Cid
@Rainboskies: I have no Earthly idea what that question means; yet I wish you and yours continued success in making the Republican Party into the Apollo moon-landing deniers of the 17% support league.
asiangrrlMN
Good lord, people. Hasn’t your mama ever told you to be nice to the idiots and the ignorant? Poor little trollie had no chance. By the way, I was born in Minnesota to parents who were not citizens. I’m still a citizen. You know why? BECAUSE I WAS BORN IN THE FUCKING UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. That’s why the children of illegal immigrants are American citizens.
Here. Look here. See the big Latin words? They mean, and I’ll say this very slowly, if a person is born in the United States, then that person is a fucking American citizen (except children of foreign heads of state and foreign diplomats).
Therefore, all the bullshit about whether or not Obama is a citizen because his father is Kenyan is BULLSHIT!
@teapotdome: I know, I know, I shouldn’t give the idiots more ammo, but I’m just preparing for the inevitable fall-out when (if) a woman gets elected president.
Wile E. Quixote
@Anne Laurie
How about “Barry Soetoro and the Vault Copies”? They could tour with The Armchair Eberts.
Wile E. Quixote
@Rainboskies
Do you think that citizenship is some sort of weird Mendelian genetic thing? “Well yes, his mother did have dominant American citizenship genes but don’t forget that his father was a Kenyan so he carries those recessive Kenyan citizenship genes and if he mated with a woman who was half American, half Kenyan and had four children they would end up with one pure-blooded American child, two half American, half Kenyan children and one pure-blooded Kenyan child.”
Have you ever thought of getting a job so that instead of coming on to Balloon Juice and having everyone here heap abuse on you for being an idiot you could hire a gay leather daddy by the hour to tie you up and abuse you by telling you that you’re a worthless and weak and applying a leather strap to your ass?
Delia
@asiangrrlMN:
Oh there you go again, getting all legal and Constitutiony on the poor idiot troll. What makes you think that will stop him?
I’m going back to see if anyone has anything new to say about tomatoes.
Update: Sigh . . . all the tomato people seem to have toddled off to bed. Looks like I’m stuck with the people trying to refute the wingnut troll who’s reduced to confusing genetics with legal definitions of citizenship.
Wile E. Quixote
@asiangrrlMN
Yeah, well those big fancy Latin words don’t count because they’re not in English like Jesus spoke in the Bible.
Wile E. Quixote
@Rainboskies
Indonesian/Kenyan, Barack Obama or Barry Soetero, I’d still rather have him in the Oval Office than a chickenshit bible-beating faggot like Chuck Baldwin.
asiangrrlMN
@Delia: Thanks for the laugh, Delia. It’s a good way to clear the air.
@Wile E. Quixote: You are fucking gold, man. Heh.
Delia
@El Cid:
You raise a disturbing question vis a vis the astronauts. It is very possible that prolonged exposure to cosmic rays in space destroy those parts of their genes that transmit US citizenship. Therefore, any of their children who are conceived after their space missions will not be US citizens, and eligible for arbitrary deportation. Think about it.
/wingnut whackjob
LD50
And we call you a pathetic, racist loser.
Apsaras
This can only mean one thing.
Barack Obama (aka High Mason Barry Lindbergh Sortero-Hussein Esquire) is actually the son of the sultan of Arabia! And he won’t stop sending his magical genies after poor Rainboskies, no matter how much tin foil he uses.
LD50
He was born in the US. Period. Your racist babbling about Kenya is meaningless.
He won the election. By a substantial margin. Better than Bush ever did.
Despite your fantasy, he’s president.
Baldwin and McCain lost.
Live with it, troll.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Wile E. Quixote:
Your theory that loonies like Rainboskies regard citizenship as a Mendelian trait is interesting, and obviously they regard it as something that’s “in the blood,” but their notions of heredity seem to be distinctly pre-Mendelian. I think they subscribe to the older theory that the individual is preformed in the sperm and the mother is simply an oven that incubates all that spermy goodness into a baby, citizenship and all. That’s why this maroon can’t seem to grasp that US citizenship can be conveyed by the mother alone, regardless of the father’s nationality.
Even if Obama could claim Kenyan citizenship (or would he be a British subject?) as a virtue of his father, since the US doesn’t recognize dual citizenship, that has absolutely no bearing on his US citizenship status. And before Rainboskies hits us with this argument, it’s quite possible to have dual citizenship: Rahm Emmanuel has dual US-Israeli citizenship, which the US does not recognize but Israel does. He would be quite eligible to run for president because he is a US citizen, regardless of whatever else he is.
LD50
It’s been long since pointed out that the birthers don’t really give a fuck about burth certificates — it’s nothing but Obama’s alienness that enrages them. The ‘he’s not a citizen!’ or ‘he’s born in Kenya and Indonesia!’ gibberish is just their pseudo-legalese way of saying “he’s not a REAL AMERICAN!”, i.e., white. Since that’s what’s really bothering people like BOB & Rainboskies, by definition no proof will ever convince them.
oh really
C’mon Little Dreamer, you’ve got to give ACORN its due.
oh really
It’s from the Bible.
The Bible is the inerrant word of God, therefore it must be 100% RIGHT(WING)!!
Thlayli
As I understand it, Obama could have received Kenyan citizenship if, within a certain window of time upon achieving adulthood, he showed up in Nairobi and explicitly asked for it. Since he didn’t, he is not.
***
1. Would you care to cite the Hawaii law which says that?
2. Why would they do that? The only circumstance I can imagine is if a child was born on a ship on its way to Hawaii. Even then, they’d be sure to specify “International Waters” as the birthplace.
El Cid
Deportation to space? Damn, and people thought the 100 foot tall several thousand mile Mexico wall fantasy sounded expensive.
kay
@Rainboskies:
Your problem is that you’re relying on the filing of a complaint to prove what’s alleged in the complaint.
Two lawyers filed complaints in several federal courts, alleging some harm. That’s all they did. It’s not even difficult. Now that you’ve read several, you can file one. Draft it, pay the filing fee, you can file against me, and allege anything you want.
All of your sites point back to those complaints. There are motions for summary judgment, there are responses, it’s just court filings, and they’re all generated by Berg and the dentist. The whole birther cause depends on paper filed in court to make it real.
They didn’t get past summary judgment. You don’t know that that means, so the court filings look like “a case” to you. They’re not. It’s just two lawyers filing paper. It has a nice timestamp, and lots of legal language, but it’s still nonsense.
I can allege anything in a complaint. Anything. It’s no different than ranting on a streetcorner, except it looks “official” and I can then link you to my complaint. Because these rantings were filed in a federal court, you’re imputing all kinds of legitimacy to the rant, and that’s what Berg and the dentist relied on: that the court stamp would offer legitimacy, and that you would fall for it.
Zuzu's Petals
@Eric U.:
I shared a dining car table with a couple of English tourists last night. They were telling me how much the UK loved the Obamas when they visited, thought Michelle was da bomb, and … had absolutely NO IDEA the O’s gave the Queen an iPod!
John
This is my favorite B.O.B. comment in this thread.
B.O.B.: There are two possibilities here.
1) The birth certificate is real
2) The birth certificate is fake.
If the birth certificate is real, then, obviously, it was totally legitimate for Barack Obama, Sr., to say he was “African” for the birth certificate.
If the birth certificate is fake, then you can’t infer anything from the race given for Ann Dunham – it’s a fraudulent document, and his mother’s race of “Caucasian” is just as fraudulent as the father’s race of “African.”
TR
Much like the controversies over whether the moon landing was faked, or if 9/11 was an inside job. As long as there are retards, the issue will NOT go away.
Stamp your insane feet some more. It is ADORABLE.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
You’ve been corrected on this stupidity several times here.
If the certification of live birth that Obama provided online and to FactCheck is a fake, maybe you will explain why it contains the same info contained in birth announcements that appeared in two separate Honolulu papers within 9 and 10 days of his birth.
Remembering that those announcements were based on info received directly from the Dept of Vital Records, from birth certificates filed with the registrar by the hospitals in which the births took place. And that the registration date that appears on Obama’s COLB conforms with the birth announcements.
Zuzu's Petals
@KRK:
Also an excellent site:
Obama Conspiracy Theories
Lots of links to original docs, first rate research and discussion of lawsuits.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
Well, “Caucasian Hawaiian” isn’t a race, and neither is “White.”
Yet here’s a Hawaiian COLB that shows both.
How many times have you been corrected on this?
LD50
Wasn’t BOB the one who said that if the birth certificate is real, the only solution was to remove it from the vaults, and take it around the whole country like a travelling exhibit, so that skeptical wingnuts everywhere could handle it and draw their own conclusions?
Yeesh, these people are completely convinced the whole world revolves around them.
Comrade Darkness
@Zuzu’s Petals: You mean a new ipod. She had an old one already that her grandsons reported she was fond of.
Can we put up a banner ad for the Truthers to help
siphon off their dough that might otherwise be put to actual harmful usetheir fundraising?The Tim Channel
Jeebus. Did I go to sleep last night only to wake up and find that the Presidential race of 2008 was still ongoing? I don’t care what these rightwing fruitcakes dream of next. It won’t change my support of the new Obama/Cheney administration one bit.
Enjoy.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
Is it stupidity or just laziness? You don’t seem to be able to get a single fact right.
The residency requirement applicable in 1961 (not 1964) was five years after age 14, not age 13. And it only applied to the parent of a child born outside of the geographical limits of the United States or its possesions.
Really, I’ve lost track of how many times people have had to correct you on this stuff.
Tyro
It seems that people totally leave out the fact that his father was Kenyan. What, just conveniently brush that aside?
Because it’s irrelevant. My father was technically still a foreign citizen (though he had US citizenship, as well) when I was born. All I have to do is file some paperwork to get it acknowledged. Nevertheless, I’m still a natural born citizen, just like John Smith from West Virginia whose ancestors came to the US in the 1600s.
We have no naturalization papers for Obama. Why? Because he was born an American citizen. Because he was born in the US to an American mother.
The United States is the sole determinant of who is and isn’t a citizen. Other countries have no input into that decision. Otherwise, we could have countries granting retroactive natural-born citizenship to American presidential candidates whom they found particularly offensive in order to disqualify them.
What’s wonderful about this kerfluffle is that it exposes right-wingers for what they are: people who don’t believe that children of immigrants or Americans with “funny, foreign-sounding names” aren’t “real Americans.
Zuzu's Petals
@Mnemosyne:
The Departments of State and Homeland Security have actually filed an answer to a FOIA lawsuit with the federal court, specifically denying multiple birfer allegations:
Surreal American
Going away? Why would I wish that? I’m hoping the Obama birth certificate nonsense becomes the issue of the Bachmann/Random Wingnut 2012 campaign to the exclusion of all other issues.
Fear not, little troll, you’ll always have Utah in your corner.
Runninbear
As a native american Im worried that everyone seems to be saying it doesn’t matter that the Contitution has been labled as an out dated document that we can just refuse to obey?everyone seems to be letting everyone do their own research about this mans orgins,It seems his own grand mother is called a liar,and everyone who truly feels the Contutition has been violated are called names.If any of you out there that thinks the goverment officals in Hawaii could tell a real brith ceritifcate from a fake is just trying to earn the stimulus money he has signed to give Hawaii 300 plus millions to cover his —.Theres at least 5 reasons why asking this question is valid,yet everyone insists that it doen’t matter.I bet not many of you have researched this man or anything about him?You have accepted the facts from the press,who was aware of this discripanacy of his brith weeks before the election but would not print any of this? His frist mentor was a communist pediohile who had a three some with his black wife and Ann Dunham his mother who was only (13) she later would abandon Barry Obama at least twice and return to the states to attend school,because of his drug use ,who then introduced him to Bill Ayers and his wife who is a unrepentant,unpunished terroist who bombed and killed people,two of his own and was later quoted saying “I wished I had done more”.Then theres Jereimiah Wright biggest black racist that has ever spewed the poison he believes,but even attending church here 3 to 4 times a month Obama says he never heard a word of these things ever preached by this man.They were being sold in the same lobby he used to enter and leave this church. I hope the next time you think you know someone you don’t leave it up to the press.They like most of you listen to his rehoritic that he has been working since he worked for Acorn,where he and Ayers registered dead voters and the others they just made up?yeah this is the man you wanted in the white house? this man has endangered every american and service man of this country,aliented our allies,funding Hamas rebuilding of Gaza,over a war they started,stealing food supplies and saying we just made a mistake.signing last pork for this years “earmarks” I know who he is NOW DO YOU??????
Zuzu's Petals
@Rainboskies:
Bull pucky. Aside from the fact that many of the suits are directed not at Obama, but at state and federal officials:
Zuzu's Petals
@Comrade Darkness:
Riiight. What was I thinking.
Runninbear
Hey Tyro?
You like others are not understanding of the contutition? It says that even if you wre borned in Hawaii
,which he wasn’t,you must live in the united States at least 5 years “After your 14th brith day.Obama went to live in “INDONESIA when he was 5 years old and attended school there?these two reasons alone would be grounds that he renounced his right to even be an American,Plus the other reason they claim he obtained an “Indonesian Passport “to travel to “Pakistan” when he was (20) where no american could or would travel at that time.This is the icy on the cake that would prove he has duel citizenship.I heard where some one even tried to say “Well it wasn’t Barry that renouned his rights to be an American but his parents?that’s funny?your parents are responsiable for your raising and a minor can’t make the decision his self there for he is a duel citizen,and by the way the fact that his mother was a “MINOR” she couldn’t give her citizenship to Barry Obama? therefore you should read what the laws of marriage is for foriegners in theses countries?I’ll save you some time They decide citizenship by the father,who was British born kenyan/Indonesian?
LD50
ERRRRRRRRNT. Whoops, you lose.
Sorry, please accept our home game.
Zuzu's Petals
@Rainboskies:
Nope. See my prior comment, with links to the Honolulu Advertiser and a note from the PUMA who found the birth announcement. The announcement info came directly from the Dept of Vital Records, NOT the family. In fact, you can see the heading for the announcement column: “Health Bureau Statistics.”
Tyro
Show me where “Hawai’i” and “5 years After[sic] your 14th brith[sic] day” appear in the Constitution.
Your comments are a thing of beauty, by the way. The mispellings, the inability to put spaces after punctuation, the lack of paragraph breaks, the incoherent batshitinsane rants of talking points: it’s like raising right-wing trolling to an art form.
Zuzu's Petals
@Rainboskies:
Wrong per usual.
An “out of country birth” will only be registered in Hawaii for children adopted in Hawaii, and the certificate will ALWAYS show the country of birth. Not Hawaii.
Hawaii law
You might note that statute wasn’t enacted until 1981, when Obama was an adult.
Oh, and the Certification of Hawaiian Birth program that was in effect until 1972? Or issuance of a Late Birth Certificate? Only applied to people who were one year of age or older. We know from the newspaper announcements that Obama’s birth certificate was recorded within days of his birth.
PS, yes we do know “exactly what the birth certifcate says” except for the name of the hospital and the doctor (neither of which matters for purposes of citizenship). All the information that appears on the certification of live birth that Obama made public also appears on the full certificate filed with the local registrar and filed with the Dept of Vital Records … the basis of the newspaper announcements printed just a few days later.
Dennis-SGMM
Okay, I actually know something about birth certificates and Hawaii. I was born to American parents on Kwajelein Atoll in the Marshall Islands back when the Marshalls were a U.S. Protectorate. My parents, on their way back to the States, registered my birth at Honolulu, Hawaii. Honolulu issued a birth certificate. It was good enough to withstand the scrutiny of the U.S. Navy and later, because of the work I was doing at the time, an FBI background check.
LD50
@Tyro:
Pretending to be Native American in hopes that it would somehow make his argument look less racist is a cute touch, too.
Zuzu's Petals
@Dennis-SGMM:
Just curious, what does it say for your birthplace?
Zuzu's Petals
Heck, they’re just about to call my train. Sorry I can’t respond to anybody for awhile.
Dennis-SGMM
@Zuzu’s Petals:
It says “Kwajelein, Marshall Islands.” No mention of the U.S. Protectorate bit. The FBI background check was a bit funny because there’s an alternative spelling, “Kwajalein,” for my birth place so at first it didn’t exist for them.
Comrade Darkness
@Zuzu’s Petals, I just found the criticism of “why would they think the queen could possibly want such a thing?” to be a sign of lacking teh googles on the part of those suffering ODS.
Comrade Darkness
To the extent this paragraph alleges that President Obama is or ever was a practicing Muslim, that allegation is denied.
Um, there is no f*cking religious test for public office, so sayeth Article 6 of the constitution in plain bloody english. For a wingnut brigade supposedly high on righteously smoking the constitution, they sure are sloppy/ignorant as hell about it.
… both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
This isn’t even any namby pamby bill o’ rights nonsense.
DarcyPennell
@asiangrrlMN
Hear, hear! One of my parents was a non-citizen until I was in my 30s. And I’m just as much a natural-born citizen as if my parents had been on the Mayflower. I don’t know who’s worse: the idiots who believe that an American with immigrant parents isn’t a true American, or the cynics who encourage this belief.
(Then again, my immigrant parent is a white European, so they’d probably declare me exempt.)
Litlebritdifrnt
I can’t believe that you guys spent all night arguing with a birfer, I mean other than the fact that you were having fun with it, (a little like a cat with a mouse), why did you not just bat it around a bit and then kill it and put it out of its misery? LOL.
Zuzu's Petals
Dennis@269:
Thanks. Makes sense, and underscores the point that even if issued in Hawaii, such a document still will not show a Hawaiian birth.
Zuzu's Petals
Comrade Darkness @270:
Agree completely…sorry if my prior didn’t make that clear.
Eric G.
@KRK: wow, they useta say that about Hitler too. Hmmm, was Reagan really Hitler reconstituted from concentrate??? Yeh,yeh, that’s the ticket!!!
Also wnd very similar to wmd. Weapon of neurological deterioration? It apparently backfired on its author.