Building on DougJ’s post about Lanny Davis reciting nonsensical right-wing talking points, the whole silliness of the empathy outrage has really been pretty funny. Aside from the fact that archives show both Samuel Alito and George H. W. Bush waxing eloquent about the benefits of empathy, the notion that you can take Obama’s appeal for empathetic judges and mix it with a throwaway line from a Sotormayor speech a decade earlier and somehow determine, without one shred of evidence taken from her legal rulings, that Sotomayor is a radical activist and “reverse racist,” seems to me to be pretty absurd.
Rod Dreher has been under assault a good bit lately from the fringe lunatics in the GOP, and usually I would be standing in line picking out the next spitball to throw his way, but I thought he had a pretty solid piece yesterday that was worth noting:
The NYT has a link to the entire speech in which she made the comment about the “wise Latina” reaching a “better” verdict than “a white male who hasn’t lived that life.” I’m still a bit troubled by the remark, but not in any important way. Taken in context, the speech was about how the context in which we were raised affects how judges see the world, and that it’s unrealistic to pretend otherwise. Yet — and this is a key point — she admits that as a jurist, one is obligated to strive for neutrality. It seems to me that Judge Sotomayor in this speech dwelled on the inescapability of social context in shaping the character of a jurist.
***In fact, come to think of it, I can remember a couple of occasions at The Dallas Morning News, sitting in on editorial board meetings with judicial candidates, in which I was favorably impressed by aspiring judges who talked about, well, empathy. One candidate who comes to mind had grown up poor and a racial minority, but had worked her way out of deprivation and built a strong legal career. She came to us as a sitting judge who sought higher office. We asked her to talk about a case or cases that would give us an idea of the perspective she would bring to the bench. She spoke about how she came to learn early in her bench career that the decisions she made affected not just the person at trial, but his family. She spoke about how it gave her a greater appreciation for the dimensions of the law, and what constitutes justice — to be specific, that justice is not something mechanical, a result that can be obtained by feeding facts into a program, and having a computer spit out the “correct” answer. Rather, it requires wisdom, and its application. As I recall that meeting, the judge’s answer struck me as wise about human nature, and how the law provides a framework for justice, but doesn’t guarantee it — and how sometimes, subjective factors necessarily influence a judge’s decision about the right outcome in a particular case.
Many years ago when I worked in a probation office, one of the things I really enjoyed doing was pre-sentence investigations. I liked it so much, I sort of specialized in them. Basically, my job was to write up a report about the convicted individual, learn about his/her past, his family situation, what he/she was interested in and what kind of education and work experience they had, discussions of any previous convictions, etc. It was basically a miniature biography of each individual, and it also included their take on the crime and why it happened and whether they were remorseful. We did this for almost everyone, and the reports would sometimes, depending on how well my interviews went, end up 10-15 pages long. These investigations were then submitted to the court before sentencing, so the judge could read them and take any new information into account.
I liked doing them because it it was exciting work. You got to go to the jail, interview people, find out what motivated them, learn why they did what they did, etc. I also liked the sense of finality- there was so much paperwork and we always had so many cases, that closing out a big case and wiping it off the board gave a sense of finality not unlike the feeling you get when you finish mowing the lawn, turn the engine off and survey your work, and for just a moment everything is alright in your own little kingdom.
One of the things I didn’t like was that it meant I would have to go to court for the sentencing, and that always irritated me. It irritated me because I knew the convicted person was guilty- they had been convicted, and they always admitted to their guilt to me in our interviews. None of them every denied their crime. But what drove me nuts were the family members. It made me livid that they would waste the court’s time, begging for lenience for a guy who had just been convicted of molesting a 4 year old. Or begging for mercy, explaining what a good person the convicted was, and that raping those three nephews was just a mistake and please go light on them. That just infuriated me.
One day after a particularly nasty person had been sentenced, I was standing in the courtroom chatting with one of the judges I liked. He was an outgoing fellow, pretty funny, and the kind of guy you wanted to be around. You knew he was in charge, and he had that same aura I had grown used to coming from confident officers in the army. He was also one of those people who you either loved or hated- some people in the small Republican community grumbled that he was too lenient and too liberal. I was a strong Republican at the time, but I never noticed anything particularly “liberal” about him. At any rate, we were talking, and I mentioned how much it drove me insane when the families would come in and swear what a nice guy the rapist was, and didn’t it drive him insane having to listen to that day after day.
He looked right at me and said, without hesitation or anger, even after having just thrown the book at this convict and given him a really long sentence: “No, it doesn’t bother me at all. If his family isn’t going to come to his defense, who the hell is?”
That judge got it. At the time, I didn’t.
Martin
Whenever I see someone sitting in a courtroom on the news, I wonder what it must be like to be their mom, watching their kid who has all of these other experiences in the family, most of them good ones, now being sentenced and sent off to prison knowing that even if they deserved the sentence that they’re denied the experience of being with them and that their kid will almost certainly emerge as a different, and not likely better person.
Little Dreamer
It’s truly astounding to me how the GOP is nothing if not inhumane.
JL
John, Empathy doesn’t mean that you necessarily change the outcome. Listening is a skill that I wish I had perfected.
I read today that Sessions had questioned Sonia Sotomayor on a comment about mandatory sentencing. It will be interesting to see if he asks the same question this time because that policy is over crowding prisons and bankrupting California more than any social policy.
You have led quite an interesting life.
Krista
John, you’ve worked at a probation office, been a DJ, and taught at a university, and those are just the three I know about.
So how long ago did you escape from The Centre?
geg6
What makes me nuts is how they are all going on and on about how good judges rule strictly according to the law and no expeiences from their lives ever intrude on their sober and completely objective decision making. I didn’t know we were appointing robots to judicial seats. Because no human being who is not a psychopath fits that description.
JL
@Little Dreamer: Earlier I read a comment about comparing the Repubs to the Scorpion in the Frog and the Scorpion story. It’s in their nature.
Steve
I defended a case brought by a crazy convicted felon who claimed, among other nutty things, that Clarence Thomas was willing to help prove his innocence by serving as an alibi witness.
Long story short, I ended up chatting with Justice Thomas about it on the phone. Just like everyone (well, almost everyone) says, he’s a very gregarious, engaging guy, and we had an enjoyable conversation.
At one point, I couldn’t help mocking the plaintiff in my case a little bit. “Well, you know, this guy is locked up without much else to do with his day, so I guess that’s why he files all these crazy lawsuits.”
Justice Thomas got serious for a moment. “You know what,” he said, “if it was me, I’d do the exact same thing. If you’re not gonna fight for yourself, who will?”
Now there’s a judge with empathy. Anyway, John reminded me of this story for obvious reasons.
Fax Paladin
@Krista: Nice.
demkat620
They are just exhausting and predictable and Lanny is running the Clinton Campaign 2012.
TX Expat
@geg6:
People who assert that “good judges only rule according to a strict interpretation of the law” are morons. There’s not a human walking this earth that is able to escape their personal experiences (whether that be in an Ivy League school as a legacy or as a Hispanic woman who worked her ass off to get where she is today) and apply the law accordingly.
What these people are really saying is that they want someone on the bench who empathizes with *them* and their concerns as “normal” Americans – whatever the fuck that means (although as far as I can tell it means privileged white male, NASCAR/Joe The Plumber notwithstanding).
And even the most heinous criminal needs someone to stand up for them, if only to ensure that they get a fair shake in the system and their sentence is proportionate to their crime. That kind of advocacy ensures that *everyone* gets a fair hearing, not just those who can afford to hire a hot shot DC attorney.
MarkusB
That judge got it. At the time, I didn’t.
John, I think the Dijon mustard is getting to you.
MattF
Looks like Justice-to-be Sotomayor can play rough. Maybe not so much like Souter, after all.
Little Dreamer
@Krista:
Don’t forget managed a clothing store selling Birkenstocks. ;)
Little Dreamer
@JL:
Well, I suggest that if they want to take a ride on our backs, we tell them to swim instead. ;)
John Cole
@Little Dreamer: and Army.
linda
nyt headline :
Sotomayor’s Sharp Tongue Raises Issue of Temperament
JL
@geg6: Recently I saw a chart that indicated that Conservative Judges over turn the laws made by Congress more than moderate or liberal Judges.Rule of law doesn’t mean much if they don’t like the law. Scalia has quoted Latin law in order to justify some of his rulings. Lately, I just keep a dictionary in my pocket. I no longer know what activist means.
Irony Abounds
The most telling thing about this and other recent “controversies” is how the David Frums, Rod Drehers and Daniel Larisons of this world are essentially written out of the conservative movement once they act in an intellectually honest manner. Dreher is being savaged for his disdain for Mark Levin, and Larison is routinely accused of not being a conservative because he doesn’t preach hate and distort the positions of non-conservatives. Frum is a persona non gratis for his pleas to conservatives to avoid Limbaughesque hyperbole.
I am quite aware that liberals are also capable of distorting the views of the other side. I don’t believe, however, that they do so in such a routine, systematic and inherently dishonest fashion. In the case of Alito and Roberts, it was clear that there were uber-conservatives, and consequently some opposition was voiced, but the left certainly did not go to the lengths to vilify them as the right is going to now to attack Judge Sotomayor.
I have always been uncomfortable being a Democrat, but when questioned about it, I have the same response I give on every birthday as I get older: it beats the alternative.
JL
@Little Dreamer: With a smile on our faces.
James K. Polk, Esq.
My uncle is a defense attorney for some really nasty people. I was unconvinced when he told me that everyone deserves a fair shake in the system and he was just playing his role. Why should it have been him to be the one doing the defending?
At 18, I was extremely confused and unable to see how he could lower himself to defend the scum of the earth. As I have gotten older, I began to realize some of the wisdom of his words.
Rights are rights, and the Constitution enshrines them. Those who do the dirty work of the law are as important to our society as those fighting for real justice. We are mandated, as a society based on laws and rights, to make sure that rationality and fairness are the arbiters of punishment and regulation.
Fax Paladin
Linda beat me to it because my computer crashed. But Jesus. Freaking. Christ.
NYT: Sotomayor’s Sharp Tongue Raises Issue of Temperament
Tell me again how liberal and in the bag for Obama the NYT is?
EDIT: Also, tell me how it’s not an issue for Scalia but it is for Sotomayor?
Krista
Anybody remember that link that utterly disabused the meme about Sotomayor’s rulings all being overturned? I’m in the midst of an argument on another blog, and taste blood.
I just mentioned the fact that it was insulting that some on the right were saying Sotomayor is not intelligent, when that is blatantly not the case, and some silly right-wing bitch gets all whiny and says:
So after I point out the fact that she’s utterly failed reading comprehension and has wasted a lot of words battling a strawman, I’d love to point out a good site that destroys her bullshit.
Violet
I’m always glad for thoughtful, empathetic people sitting on the bench. It’s a tough job and I’m glad I don’t have to do it.
Betsy
The thing that kills me is that these people act like there is such a thing as an unbiased, neutral, objectively correct judicial decision. But the whole reason for having appellate and supreme court judges is for them to *interpret* the law. The word *interpret* implying that perhaps it’s not self-evident to all reasonable people what it means or how it should be applied. If the law was straightforward and self-evident, we wouldn’t need judges.
Krista
There was also a brief stint as a showgirl at one point, IIRC. He enjoyed that, but couldn’t stay long, as in a twist of fate, Miss Parker ran into him while they were both shopping for thigh-highs.
Graeme
I’ve been saying it for awhile now, but you’ve reminded me to say it again:
The GOP is throwing the kitchen sink at everyone it opposes to its peril. Sooner or later, every single accusation they’ve made is something they’re going to have to defend in their own candidates.
That may not bother the village, but the lefties and the independents who are paying attention are going to easily (moreso than ever, these days) call them on it.
Thus, they’re going to look stupid or insane to the less-informed. This strategy worked well for them in the 90s, but it’s played out at this point in time. They continue down this road at their peril.
Dennis-SGMM
@Krista:
You’re wasting your breath, lady. Obama could have nominated the risen Christ and the racist, sexist, idiots that have congealed around the GOP would find fault.
jl
As a standard issue white guy, who has been told confidentially that I lost a $$ job because of affirmative action considerations (somebody really needed to up their score on the diversity front) -I suppose I could concern troll this issue.
But, that fact is that dealing with the messy problems of diversity and affirmative action programs that are one way to remedy centuries of discrimination is small beans compared to the rank fetid and despicable hypocrisy and bad faith of these wingnut rat-b*st*rds lying their asses off over Sotomayor.
If there is ever a time the so-called lefties (which these days include people about in the same idological camp as fricken Eisenhower) need to attack these reactionary monsters on all fronts, it is now.
Firedoglake has a quiz up. Take the test and see whether you can distinguish between upstanding respectable (and IMHO, to be honest, mediocre, deluded, reactionary freakshows with extremely unsound judicial philosophies) on current and past Supreme Courts, and Sotomayor.
http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/28/fdl-game-time-which-judge-said-this/
Tonal Crow
@Little Dreamer:
The GOP revels in its lack of empathy. They call it “being tough”. What is really is is being cowards.
JL
@Krista: She had 5 or 6 rulings out of close to 400 make it to the Supreme Court and I think 3 were overturned. Pretty damn good record.
Should you be upsetting yourself by reading that bullshit. You can tell what type of Gram I’ll be if I’m ever that fortunate.
Ninerdave
@Krista:
Benen addressed the overturning bullshit today:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_05/018381.php
EDIT: WP hates me, that’s all Benen in the 2 paragraphs above.
Tymannosourus
@ John Cole,
Only liberal commie jurists actually consider the PSIs.
The real, non-activist judges just sentence ’em to the guideline maximum.
gwangung
@Krista: You don’t need a cite. Just the facts. Five cases to the Supremes. Three over-turned. 308 NOT OVERTURNED.
Better percentage than other judges.
She’s entitled to her own judgement, but not her own facts.
Laura W
I’m not gonna spend a whole lot more time trying to analyze my recurring dreams that John is really a woman.
Jung wept.
JK
h/t http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/05/28/first-gop-senator-pledges-vote-against-sotomayer/
clone12
For his next SCOTUS pick, President Obama should stress the importance of his nominee’s ability to read. Because I am certain that there will be howls of protests from the Right about how literacy is an unfair liberal litmus test.
flavortext
@Krista:
This one?
Mousebumples
She also has a 6th case that is before SCOTUS right now that has yet to be ruled on. For sake of completeness.
SCOTUS gets, like, 8000 cases submitted to them for review each year. They elect to hear maybe 80 or 100 cases – which are often overturned. (I believe the going rate is 75% of those selected cases.) She’s had about 400 or so rulings, of which 6 have been taken to SCOTUS – and only 3 (potentially 4, granted) have been overturned. 396/400 is a pretty good record, I’d think.
Rachel Maddow had a segment on this last night, I believe, but I doubt that any self-respecting Repub would consider her show a valid piece of evidence. (just guessing)
kay
Great post. Exactly.
This has me a little rattled. Well, more rattled than usual. It just cuts close to the bone for some reason, and I’m incapable of putting it in a political ploy, or gamesmanship, context. I don’t get that.
jl
Some bloggers have noted the double standard of ethnic white pride in various little crabbed stupid ethnic and cultural mythologies, and the accusations of racism or ridicule whenever an African-American, or Hispanic, or Native Americans do it.
So, I am half Irish, and I can drivel on about luck of the Irish, and pluck, gift of gab, and how my heritage gives me this or that wonderful blah blah…
You can substitute Italian, or Pole, or Ukraine or Scot or Scots-Irish whatever… same schtick.
But poor Sotomayor does that exact same thing and she is racist.
Time to call BS, bigtime.
Indylib
Family can make a difference. To make a long story short my brother-in-law had pled guilty to a non-violent offense and had sat in jail between the time he was arrested and the time he was sentenced because no one in the family trusted him not to jump bail, but on the day that he was sentenced my other brother-in-law was in the courtroom to show family support and the judge had a letter from my husband sitting in front of him. The judge sentenced him to time served (3 months) and 200 hours of community service. The Judge said that he was impressed that members the family had taken the time and effort to show support for my brother-in-law and that he had taken that into consideration when deciding to give him time served. Neither my husband or his brother had pled for anything from the judge, they just let the court know that they supported and cared about their brother even if he had fucked up. The judge took that into account. I was impressed.
Chris Andersen
@James K. Polk, Esq.:
The simple rule I follow is this: if you want the system to give you a fair shake then you have to fight to make sure it gives a fair shake to everyone.
MikeJ
And of course only having 50% that made it to the USSC overturned is a great record. The only reason to grant cert is if somebody *wants* to overturn it. There’s no reason to take a case where you let the decision stand.
TX Expat
@Chris Andersen:
Indeed, that’s why I’m on track to be a public defender.
geg6
What Chris Andersen said.
eric
i once had the pleasure of watching a federal judge sentence this guy (we were waiting for the final pretrial confernence). This guy is my favorite judge. he gets the big things, doesnt sweat the small things, sharp tongueand temper when needed.
well, this social worker is on the stand explaining why this guy should do very little time (low rung in drug selling conspiracy). The guys daughter and family are there. it is very sad because he is looking at 5 years and from appearances he is not a “bad dude.”
well, the social worker says to the judge “god help you if sentence him for ant real time. i hope your dreams are haunted for the rest of your life.” needless to say the sentencing did not go well.
afterwards, we are in chambers and the judge asks all of us what we would have sentenced the guy to. As a dad of a 3 year old at the time, i came out on the lowest end for that reason only. all of us had a very difficult time trying to reach a number.
eric
Tonal Crow
@Chris Andersen:
A good rule. But the GOP’s rule is:
Little Dreamer
@John Cole:
Yeah, well I don’t consider that a job. A service that you were paid to do, yes… not a job.
Krista
Thanks, Ninerdave!
I took the high road with her, anyway, ending my polite skewering of her with a gentle chiding that by assuming that I think she’s racist, she’s assuming that I’m not arguing in good faith, making her prediction of a futile argument a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Were it a political blog, I would have enjoyed destroying her, but it’s not, and so out of deference to the hosts, I kept it very, very civil.
jl
I am not a lawyer, and from what I’ve read about what Sotomayor actually has done on the bench, she is actually a very centrist judge. She is not particularly liberal or working to be ideologically innovative in her rulings.
So, from my point of view, Sotomayor is not what we need. I think the originalist and ‘framers intentions’ approach to constitutional interpretation is BS. And I think anyone of that school is incompetent and bascially stupid. So, I think people like Scalia and Roberts and Thomas should be impeached for incompetence, just like you would sue a doctor for malpractice, or an electrician who did something stupid and against code and burned down your house.
I want some one on the court who will write innovative and important dissents, which history will use to throw the fallacies of frauds like Scalia into the dustbin of history, where they belong.
So, based on facts and objective history, I think it is the liberals who should be concerned.
But jerks and *ssholes think this is a good time to score some political points and if they need to spout lies that threaten to drag this country back into racial and ethnic polarization, that is just fine. They are evil, and need to be crushed with the truth.
In Truman’s words, we need to tell the truth and make them think it is hell.
Betsy
@jl:
Hell, in some ways it includes people in the same ideological camp (not ethical, but ideological) as *Nixon*. I’m doing research right now on Nixon-era family policy, and his administration would have been called soc1alist by today’s Republicans, based on some of his policies and positions. For instance, he initially supported universal day care, though he ended up vetoing it due not to ideological differences but to dirty back room stuff and arcane but important differences over administrative details in the bill; he also supported a guaranteed income for all families.
oh really
Of course it’s absurd. But most of what passes for political discussion in this country today is absurd.
Democrats (liberals/progressives/the Left/whatever isn’t Republican and insane) seldom have to worry about the Right coming up with rational, persuasive arguments. Clearly, Wingers aren’t bound by the truth, facts, honesty, credibility or anything else that ought to constrain responsible dialog.
John O
John, you are some kind of good dude.
I would enjoy in a big way buying you a meal, or several cocktails of your choice.
It might bother you, and I wouldn’t blame you if it did, that I often use “two-time Bush voter” when I link your posts to my conservative pals.
But I mean no harm. Usually I say something like, “…proving that ALL conservative people are not idiots.”
If that helps.
gwangung
I don’t think there’s any judge who fits that. They’ve all been screened out by a quarter century of Republican policy (with all but eight by Republican presidents).
Little Dreamer
@Tonal Crow:
Yeah, i know I grew up with a bunch of those people in my family. I see people talking on this thread about how special it is to have family that would defend you, even in the worst of circumstances, and I think to myself, “I wouldn’t know, I grew up in a pack of nasty and brutal wolves”.
Laura W
@Indylib: A year and a half ago I sat in a packed Asheville Federal courtroom watching my best friend’s 22 y/o son get sentenced to 13 years in Federal prison. Won’t go into the specifics (non-violent, statutory rape of an already pregnant girl, “porn downloading”) but it was quite moving to see everyone who’d ever cared for him, babysat him, mentored him, coached him, etc, be present for his moment before the judge. His attorney had people stand at various times, and the young man even got the chance to read a prepared speech that was so eloquent, thanking all who showed to support him, apologizing to them, and asking the judge to factor in this huge support community he had rallying behind him.
Dunno how much it did to help his cause, but he did get the minimum allowable sentence. I’ve never met him, but for seeing his back in the courtroom, but we write almost weekly now, and he always inquires about my animals. Two plus years clean and sober have given him an entirely new life, and a vastly superior brain. Every letter I get from him is smarter, funnier, more articulate and well-written than the last. He is blazing a trail into a very motivated life behind those bars. He’s a freakin’ paralegal now!
I’m rambling and I have no end point but that all this had me thinking about how very complex and complicated these dynamics are, especially for the immediate circle of family and friends.
geg6
Didn’t Nixon do wage and price freezing, too? I seem to remember that but I was only 10 when Nixon was elected in ’68.
Rick Taylor
It seems the Republican party is committing itself to minority status for the foreseeable future. A respected judge is nominated to the supreme court, a former editor of the Yale law journal, graduated sume cum laude from Princeton, a hispanic woman who worked her way up from a humble background, and what do they do? They start name calling. She’s a bigot. She’s not that bright. Even Karl Rove chimes in, lots of stupid people go to ivy league schools. She’s going to let her background dictate her opinions (of course we all know that white judges are able to apply the law and the constitution completely objectively, this question never arises for them) It is jaw droppingly disgraceful. I saw an article somewhere saying that this would be an eye opening moment for some the same way Terri Schaivo was for others, and I have to agree.
jl
And I see they are going after La Raza again. Are these people losers or what?
I went to college in California, and La Raza had great parties, and a lot of my friends where in La Raza. What screwy dingbat garbage about La Raza. I am sick of it.
I think what really pisses me off is the ethnic food attack. I also love love love black beans and rice with some slow cooked pork in it (but, no innards, please). Yep, sir, white beans and rice, with some machaca (which I probably spelled wrong, but I remember as the term for that incredible ultra slow cooked meat that I have eaten in Mexico and the Caribbean).
Dude, some lines you MUST NEVER NOT CROSS. When they went after the black beans and rice, that did it for me. The racist pigs (reactionary pundit pigs, not respectable eatable pigs) must be CRUSHED!! CRUSHED I SAY! NOW!
Little Dreamer
@John O:
I would venture a guess that those who are idiots (meaning they came through the Bush era mostly unscathed and still adhering to the GOP), they were probably not truly conservative.
Betsy
@jl:
Yeah, you wouldn’t want to eat them. Stupid and evil might be catching.
The Cat Who Would Be Tunch
@Krista:
I’m so tempted at a snark but I, errr, empathize with John’s situation.
Back on topic, this whole nonsense about empathizing is truly surprising. Do people not realize that empathy is a two-way street? For instance, would one not have to understand or feel for the predicament of, say, white people that were affected by affirmative action and be moved to alter the law? If the legislative branches pushed out affirmative action policies, then a judge that follows through to the letter of the law could never possibly overturn affirmative action because that’s what the law saws.
Betsy
@geg6:
He did indeed.
rikyrah
from Tancredo:
Tancredo: Sotomayor Is A Member Of The ‘Latino KKK Without The Hoods Or The Nooses’
Seizing the opportunity to vilify a female, Hispanic Supreme Court nominee, noted bigot Tom Tancredo has emerged from obscurity to denounce Judge Sonia Sotomayor. Earlier this week, Tancredo declared her to be a “racist” who should be “disqualified” from serving on the bench.
This afternoon on CNN, he went further, attacking her affiliation with the National Council of La Raza as equivalent to being a member of the Ku Klux Klan:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05/28/tancredo-latino-kkk/
They are who we thought they were.
May this video go viral across every Spanish Language radio and tv station.
eric
my favorite movie scene of all time is about empathy…the final scene in Paths of Glory…..i cry just thinking about it.
eric
SrirachaHotSauce
@eric:
I’m glad you mentioned that. I was trying the other day to do one of those BJ things, like work up a list of movies, and wondering what movie I would put at Permanent Number One Favorite Ever.
Paths of Glory is my pick. Kirk Douglas, and Adolphe Menjou.
OMG. Without doubt, the best movie ever made.
And edit: Directed by Stanley Kubrick. IMO, his best, in a world class career.
Little Dreamer
@JL:
You’re darned tootin’ ;)
gwangung
That’s like hoping that your team’s linemen go to the weight room for training.
jl
I am so sick of the bashing on La Raza. Great parties with great beer. I met my college sweetheart at a La Raza party, and she was very great looking (I want to say **hot**, but I think this is a politically correct thread) and very smart and very nice. So what is with the smear campaign against La Raza -I mean if a white dude like me can go to their parties and pick up chicks, how KKK can they be?
Of course, I agreed with over half of what they said, and was doing voter turnout drives with them, so I guess I was a self-hating white kid tool who was being brainwashed into communism. You can make up any stupid story you want, and if you have the right connections, get on national TV and spout hateful lies to a nodding national TV host nincompoop.
This whole smear campaign is disinformation and lies aimed at ignorant scared and perhaps (dare we say it), somewhat impaired white hicks (like I would maybe have been if I had never strayed out of my hometown).
eric
the girl is Kubrick’s wife if i recall.
Paths of glory is a magical film. casablanca is my number one
the third man is always way up there.
Odd man Out with james mason
and Brando’s marc anthony in julius ceasar — let slip the dogs of war…….wowowowow
eric
SrirachaHotSauce
@eric:
Good list, all of them and about 195 other movies on my Permanent Top Ten list.
PS — Breaker Morant (and of course, almost anything done by Bruce Beresford).
(My alltime favorite movie scene, the defense summation in that movie by Jack Thompson. I get goosebumps, literally, just thinking about it).
eric
Gallipoli is my numero uno. Peter Weir is the most underrated filmmaker of any generation.
SrirachaHotSauce
@eric:
Another great choice.
Tonal Crow
@John O:
I suppose you meant to write “proving that not all conservative people are idiots”.
2th&nayle
@Laura W: Good on you LW! Take it from someone who knows, those letters, more than anything else, can change a shitty day into a good one, when you’re locked up!
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@Krista:
Is this one of those mommy/expectant mommy boards? My wife is on a couple of those, and she always makes sure to share the political arguments with me. They get entertainingly nasty at times.
Steeplejack
Just checking in for the evening, and I don’t care if someone has already mentioned this, but, Cole, this thread title is awesome! Joe South for the old-school win.
Laura W
@2th&nayle: Hey, thanks a lot for that. I sense I enjoy the letters I get from him now even more than he does mine because it’s so rewarding and exciting to watch him grow in self-awareness and self-confidence with each passing month. (Even though in every single letter he thanks me for writing and tells me how much he loves to get mail. I can totally understand, being the communication junkie that I am.)
Krista
Nah, it’s a fashion blog. Occasionally political arguments will pop up, but we try to keep them to a minimum. But this dingbat’s sad little “argument” could not go unanswered.
I haven’t really gotten into a lot of the mommy/expectant mommy boards. A lot of them are really not my style, particularly when you see how many sparkly doodads and glittery whatsits that people put at their signature line. That disturbs me — I left that shit behind in Grade 6 with my sticker collection.
JK
@eric: @SrirachaHotSauce:
Agreed on all of those films. I’d add Twelve Angry Men and Inherit the Wind.
eric
@JK: you know, if i had to list the movies i enjoy watching the most, i would have to say shawhank and field of dreams. i never get tired of “baseball, ray, baseball.” ha
Steeplejack
@SrirachaHotSauce:
Black Robe (1991)–an underappreciated gem by Beresford.
2th&nayle
@Laura W: I probably don’t need to add this, but…Keep those letters. One day, when this episode of his life is behind him, being able to read those letters will enable him to see how he overcame what must have seemed insurmountable at the start, and he’ll be able to say, “If I got through that, I can get through this” when he’s faced with the new life challenges that are sure to come his way.
Laura W
@2th&nayle: I do. I save every single one. I plan to be around when he gets out. Who knows? A book (or scrapbook) in the making. Correspondence over time is a fascinating way to trace and track a life.
John Cole
@Laura W: Anyone else catching a Mrs. Robinson vibe?
Laura W
@John Cole: Coo Coo Ca Choo, Baby!
Steeplejack
@Laura W:
“Mrs. Darling, are you trying to seduce me?”
Plastics. Also.
2th&nayle
@Laura W: I just had a thought. Wouldn’t it be funny if it turned out that in a hundred years from now, future historians determined that the single biggest factor in preserving the lost art of letter writing was the criminal justice system!
SrirachaHotSauce
@Steeplejack:
Black Robe is definitely on my Permanent Top Ten List.
Chilling, a masterpiece.
John Cole
@2th&nayle: I had a thought the other day that I was going to make a post and then never did, but it occurred to the “otherification” currently going on in Hollywood the past twenty years, in which the bad guys have morphed from Nazis or Russians to arabs and mexican drug lords. Do you think in 100 years historians will look back and look at our characterization of those classes of people and recoil in horror the way they do today at Birth of Nation?
One difference is that people rioted and freaked out at Birth of a Nation at the time.
bago
The best part of the NY Times article is where a lawyer whines that the judge is too judgemental.
I love that shit.
2th&nayle
@John Cole: Well, we can always hope!
Laura W
@Steeplejack: Seduction?
Here. See how this works for you. Every time it comes on my iPod shuffle when I walk I play it twice. It makes me all bouncy. I think it’s pretty seductive, but I’m freaky about this woman.
Coyote’s in the coffee shop
He’s staring a hole in his scrambled eggs
He picks up my scent on his fingers
While he’s watching the waitresses’ legs
JK
@Steeplejack:
My underappreciated gem nominees
Sammy and Rosie Get Laid, Next Stop Greenwich Village, The Daytrippers, The Spanish Prisoner, Primer, The Hospital, Butterflies Are Free, Seconds, Slaughterhouse Five, The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter, Melvin and Howard, Husbands, Safe, The Andromeda Strain, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, and Mickey and Nicky.
Laura W
@John Cole: By “around” I meant “alive”. Not like trying to hook up with him or anything!
Sheesh.
Christ. The rumors and speculation that get started in these late night threads.
2th&nayle
@Laura W: Best version I’ve seen her do of ‘Coyote’ is on “The Last Waltz”. She just kills!
Steeplejack
@Laura W:
Daddy likes! And I really like that big blond guitar she is playing. I have been having serious guitar lust lately. Wait–that dude behind her has an even bigger blond guitar!
(Hope the vole was not mistreated in the making of that video.)
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Jesus, I just realized that was Pat Metheny. One of my guitar gods! “Are You Going with Me?”
Phoebe
I love this post. That is all.