The only car I’ve ever owned is a 1998 Saturn that now has 120,000 miles on it. The engine and transmission have never needed any work. All I’ve ever had done on it is the brakes (once at 50K, once at 100K) and a few knick-knack things. Turning its back on the Saturn is, in my opinion, one of the dumbest things GM has ever done. So I was glad to hear this:
Only two weeks ago, Roger Penske looked on from trackside as his team won the Indianapolis 500 car race. Now he has laid claim to what he hopes will be another trophy: Saturn.
General Motors announced Friday that it had agreed to sell Saturn to the Penske Automotive Group, whose chairman is Mr. Penske, 72, who is one of the nation’s biggest automobile dealers.
The move rescues Saturn and its dealers from the uncertain future they have faced since February, when G.M. announced plans to shut Saturn by 2012 if no buyer could be found. G.M. subsequently said it would discontinue Saturn by the end of this year.
GM has 16 bidders for Saturn. So clearly there are some people who think you can make money off the business.
simonee
The only brand that isn’t associated with the rest of GM’s trademark behemoths… and they decide to get rid of it. Go figure.
Ketzel
My husband and I bought a “used” 1994 Saturn station wagon with 2000 miles on it in 1995. That car saw him through a horrendous accident where he was rear-ended. The back of the wagon was pushed all the way up to the back seat. The body shop guy told him if he’d been in a different car he might not have made it. He said the car functioned exactly as it was designed. We kept the car until early in 2005 and put over 300,000 miles on it. It never needed major engine work until the end. We found a used 2004 Saturn wagon with 10,000 miles on it and so we traded the old one for the repairs our mechanic had begun on it. He finished the job and sold it. We still see it driving around town. I’ve put about 120,000 on our “new” wagon and other than needing new tires more often than I want is it running well. We’d buy another.
robertdsc
My 2000 SL2 is a wonderful vehicle. Love it to death.
Robin G.
Thank God. I too have a ’98 Saturn (still going at 230k!) and had every intention of sticking with them.
folkbum
I had a 97 Saturn, an SL2 that I nearly quite literally drove into the ground. It had almost 160k or so when I traded it in for my My Sweet New Ride a couple of years ago. I’d done the clutch at 130k, but it was burning a quart of oil every 500 miles or so, so it was time.
When I looked at the new Saturns, none of them had the same feel. They had become too GM-standard, if you will. The hybrid Vue had some appeal, but my Scion was $10k cheaper, has more cargo room, and gets better mileage.
If Saturn can get turned back into what it used to be–the “different kind of company”–then maybe once I drive this Scion into the ground I can go back to American-made cars.
mwg
This would be pretty typical. GM was never able to successfully apply the lessons they learned from Saturn elsewhere, so the obvious answer has always been to undermine Saturn or kill it altogether.
Timmy Mac
Hilarious – I, too, have a 1998 SL1 with over 100K that’s still going strong. Couple tires, couple brake jobs, and that’s it. The plan is to drive it until it simply won’t go anymore. Who knew there were so many die-hard Saturn people out there?
Scott
Well, carmakers hate long-lasting, reliable cars — better for business if people have to buy something new every five years to replace the old worn-out model.
cokane
this is actually an awesome thing. Independent smaller car company with a good brand name. Could fizzle of course, but could work out wonderfully in the long run.
Jackie
Our family owns 3 Saturns. The first two started out to be mine, but as our daughters grew up and left the nest, they got my car, and I’d get another Saturn. So we’ve got a 1997, a 1999, and a 2001. None of them has ever given us any trouble. Great dependable cars and no haggling over the price. I told my girls, the way to choose a new car is to go to the nearest Saturn dealer and pick out the color you want.
Jay C
NOT GM, apparently!
Mr. Poppinfresh
Something else to note: my old 1998 SW2 (same engine and all that) gets 30-35mpg, like most reasonably maintained Saturns.
Or, put another way, my ten year old plastic car gets better mileage than most hybrids on the road today.
The Grand Panjandrum
We just gave our 1994 SW2 to our nephew prior to moving east. The car runs great and gets just shy of 30 mpg in town. Great little car.
John S.
I have had 3 Saturns – a 2000 L300, a 2003 Vue and a 2007 Vue. I liked every single one and never had any problems. I have always loved the polymer body panels, especially on a leased car.
Unfortunately, I will probably never have one again because I don’t like what they did to the Vue and nothing else really tickles my fancy. Maybe that will change under new ownership, but my next car will be a Jetta Sportwagen. The Astra doesn’t even come close.
RSA
If I remember correctly, one of the things that made Saturn popular in its early days was their no-haggle price policy. I think that for a lot of Americans, for several decades, buying a car was one of the least satisfying business transactions they’d do during their lives: they go into a car dealer, get the run-around from some smarmy sales guys, eventually get a car (that’s great), but never know whether they’d gotten a good deal or had just been fooled into thinking they’d gotten one because they didn’t negotiate hard enough. I wonder if there’d be more sympathy for car companies (union-bashing aside) if not for the culture of the dealership networks? Just some speculation.
sylvainsylvain
Last night, in a piece referring to this Penske bid on NPR, I heard that since ’90, Saturn has sold 4 million vehicles, and that of these, 80% are still on the road.
And that folks, is why GM is in bankruptcy. Not because they made reliable cars, but because once they did, they didn’t know WTF to do…
c u n d gulag
I had a 2000 coupe which I traded in for a 2002 AWD Vue, which I still own, and it now has almost 140,000 miles on it.
No major problems at all with either of them. I love the cars and am glad that if I get a job and be able to afford a new car, I’ll still have the choice of getting a Saturn.
mr. whipple
Bought an Ion a couple years ago. So far, so good.
It was the best car buying experience I ever had, and the service has been excellent and inexpensive.
Brother Maynard
I’ve got a 2001 SL2 with 185,000 miles on it. The body, tranny, and engine are all in good shape. It needs a new a engine seal and perhaps a good detailing and it will be as good new.
I originally planned on starting to save save money at the 150,000 mile mark so I could buy a new one at the 175,000 mark. But Saturn dropped the line (I really wanted a hybrid version) and it’s in relatively good shape so I don’t want to get rid of it.
Arlie
I also have a Saturn and I love it. When my parent’s Saab broke down, they struck up a conversation with the tow truck driver, and they told him that I owned a Saturn. He said that he has never once had to tow a Saturn and that he had never seen a Saturn break down.
Woodrowfan
We’ve had 3 Saturns (still have 2 of them). Good cars. I love my Green Vue Hybrid. Unfortunately the local Saturn dealer (Fairfax Saturn) has the WORST service department known to man. I need a small repair on my Vue and I am actually considering taking it somewhere else and PAYING for the repair than take it to the dealer and getting it for free.
Adolphus
Sure, I’ll jump on the dogpile.
My second car was a 1991 Saturn SL1. I bought it used in 1995 from a Saturn dealer and drove it for 12 years with no major problems and over 150K. My mileage was always in the 30’s per gallon. No trouble’s other than minor thins like tires and brakes and minor upkeep. Even got me through two accidents. As people noted the buying was hassle free and all my subsequent dealings with them were similarly easy.
I’d have a Saturn today but I went carless to attend graduate school. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, just good solid car.
I also agree with RSA on the dealership issues. Buying a car, not to mention dealer based repairs, was such an excercise in distrust, double talk, and high pressure sales, I can’t help but support the hypothesis that this is one reason why American’s reaction to closing so many dealers was restrained.
One side note. My dad, native of Indianapolis, graduate of the pits there, hard core car guy, and muscle car-aphile, hated Saturns. He thought they were boring, plastic, and buying one was no fun. He thought of them as some new age-y car company that didn’t get what was special about Americans and their cars. I think in a way he was right, but that made them good and successful and gives the lie to the dominant image of America’s love affair with cars. Not every American, probably not even most, measure their dicks with their cars.
Brian Griffin
A lot of the commenters over at Saabsunited have made the point that GM seems to be getting rid of the brands that still had some potential on the global market– Saturn, Pontiac & Saab– in order to focus on the more culturally nostalgic brands.
Existing profit margins probably have everything to do with what’s getting sold, but it appears they understand they will become a light-truck and cheap commuter/fleet company now, with side venues selling a high end sportscar or two (the corvette really has become a world-class car), and one chinese-market brand (Buick). I don’t see how cadillac even fits into this company anymore after the restructuring unless they go with buick–but I bet nostalgia will keep them in the fold a while longer
there were a few recent gm vehicles that I like and could see owning– saturn aura, pontiac G6 or G8, saab 9-3 or 9-5. (we decided on 9-5’s). Funny to me that those are exactly what they’re cuttng. I don’t like driving SUV’s but always thought the Vue looked really good.
Even hummer even had potential as a unique global company if they hadn’t just slapped new sheet metal onto chevys with new models, or tried to make them “luxury”. they could have come up with some crazy boxy off-road rugged cars instead that expanded the brand’s reach. instead of embracing the oddity and making them cool, they just made big gimmicks.
.
Brother Maynard
I read that they were selling the Saturn and Saab lines because they were the lines that were the easiest to get rid of (the dealer networks are somewhat excluded from the regular GM line) and because they would fetch a lot of money that could be used to rebuild the other lines that they can’t get rid of.
As for Pontiac, that line was seen as redundant. But they want to keep the name plate so it could be brought back in the future.
bdeevDad
donated my 93 SL2 with 160k in December due to interior leaking water. The engine still ran great. When I worked at GM in 91 Saturn was going to save the company.
Brian Griffin
@Adolphus: Adolphus, I think GM has finally decided that your dad is the only type of customer they can focus on.
they made an effort to branch out past the muscle-car, nascar imagery with their fairly-successful corvette and caddy racing teams, but it was like they were trying to enter a world that they just couldn’t understand, as if all the top gm execs were either old-school American car guys like Bob Lutz, or simply knew nothing about cars at all.
The Other Steve
I helped my parents buy a 2000 Saturn LS2 using my GM employee discount. That was mainly because after going out and looking at all the GM cars myself I came to the conclusion that this was the only model of car they made that didn’t have sloppy steering.
I don’t understand what the hell is with GM and sloppy steering, and why they feel it’s a feature.
The Other Steve
Sadly, I think we’ve found the customer GM thinks they are appealing to with sloppy steering.
The Other Steve
@Brian Griffin: Great points!
GM is abandoning anything good, and keeping all the cars with sloppy steering to appeal to Adolphus’s dad in Indianapolis.
At this rate GM has another 25 years before all their customers are dead from old age, iIf the sloppy steering doesn’t take them first.
SiubhanDuinne
I’m another die-hard Saturn fan. My 1998 SL1 has 160,000 miles on it. Just had to get the a/c repaired, but I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve had done to it. Keep it well maintained and it will blow in your ear and take you anywhere. I am greatly encoraged by the Penske news and really hope the Saturn experience can go back to what always made this a special car.
Adolphus
About my dad (sort of a cross between Hank Hill and Red Foreman) being GM’s target.
Absolutely.
Another interesting thing. Like a lot of men of his generation (Grad HS mid 50’s) and immediately after and even their offspring (my brother born 1962) he loved to tinker with cars. He lived for the weekend when he could pop the hood and bend over the engine of our old 70 Maverick. He knew all about engines and he could never get one to run “just right.” Since about mid-80’s though not only was tinkering with car engines more difficult due to their complexity, it became more and more unnecessary as they became more and more reliable (assuming you bought the right cars, of course).
And my dad, along with all his male relatives and our neighbors hated that! They WANT to fiddle with their car all weekend, but the computerization of the engine makes it more difficult and with my Saturn I didn’t need to. I was literally laughed at by many people because I liked the color coded Saturn engine with all the parts I needed to worry about (dip stick, tran fluid, etc) colored yellow.
Somehow Detroit had convinced America that it was a good thing that you needed to constantly fiddle with their engines and it was somehow a mark of manliness that you could and did. Thank god grass still grows on the lawn or these people would have nothing to do on the weekends or anyway to show off their masculinity.
gex
One concern I have about spending so much money to save these car companies is that their management isn’t getting any smarter. Of course they’re ditching Saturn. It was good.
When Congress passed the new mileage standards, the Japanese car companies just shrugged and got to work. American car companies started whining and asking for extensions before even trying. Meanwhile China is looking to develop cars with even better gas efficiency than we are mandating.
And the next time gas goes to $4/gal. or better, which cars do you think will sell better?
Me, I’m the kind of patriot that thinks American engineers can achieve better mileage. Too bad these guys don’t believe in American ingenuity.
KP
If I still drove, I’d be driving my 1996 SC2. It still gets upwards of 35 MPG. I’m glad Saturn isn’t going down with the GM ship.
Llelldorin
Does anyone know know anything about Renault Samsung cars? Since it looks like Penske’s Saturn will be selling cars supplied by them?
grandpajohn
Add me to the list of satisfied Saturn owners. My 96 bought used has just turned over 100 thousand and gets 35 mph + on the highway .Since I am 71 years of age, and only add around 5000 per year .it will probably be my last car
stickler
Saturn was an experiment that was wildly successful: it showed that an American company could transform its relationship with its customers. People loved them some Saturns, and the cars were different.
Then the idiots in Detroit let the Saturn models age and age and age without any updates. Why? Partially because Saturn failed to do the one thing it really needed to do: turn a profit. I’ve read that GM has poured over $6bln into Saturn and never seen a dime of profit.
The 2007 plan, to have Saturn become a conduit for Opel-designed (and in the case of the Astra, Opel-built) cars was sound, but it couldn’t survive the 2008 Carmageddon and GM’s bankruptcy.
By the way, from what I’ve read, Penske is getting the brand and the dealers — but not the Spring Hill factory. Penske is probably going to end up importing Chinese-made cars, with Saturn badges stuck to the hoods.
Kirk Spencer
I still own and run my 93 SL1. the “new” car is a 2003 Vue.
The Vue’s VTI transmission has a flaw – it got a major recall that included an extension of the warranty to offset a lawsuit. It timed nicely as ours started going bad There’s another lawsuit pending – same issue – which would be nice as the same problem’s happening again.
On the other hand, the SL1 has had a water pump repaired and a patched radiator (all as same incident – fur removal was the easy part) and other than that it’s well over 200,000 and going strong. No, I take it back. Some of the interior could do with some repair.
Because of the Vue I’ll be cautious about buying another Saturn. Because of the SL1 I won’t toss the whole company to the side.
Billy K
Saturn is a great company – the only GM branch that has come close to “doing it right.” I’ve got a 2003 L-200 that has been a wonderful and reliable car up to 98,000 miles, despite the GM-ifying of the line. And the older models are even more reliable from what I hear.
I cannot fathom what GM is thinking by jettisoning the only brand in its lineup that is based on a decent working model. Even in bankruptcy reorganization they’re doing it bassackwards. But I’m glad Saturn will live on.
hidflect
I was one of the PR people responsible for the launch of the Saturn here in Japan in 1997 at the Tokyo Motor Show. GM planned to sell 1400 units the first year ( a modest number). We had no control over the show’s PR focus, it all being dictated from the US. Engineers jumping up and down on plastic panels was the big feature. Fun, but not good for the Japanese consumer’s impression
It cost 20% more than it’s Toyota rival with worse fuel economy, lower top speed and less space. They ended up selling about 43 units as I recall. It was limited to 3 or 4 colours as well.. all of which the Japanese DON’T buy (red, strong toy-blue and something else.) The car sucked a little, but GM’s image sucked a lot and their lack of advertising combined with clueless local marketing made their Saturn’s perception suck hugely.
PattyP
Saturn is the only car line I’ve owned two models of, a 2001 SC-1 (the little 3-door coupe) and a 2003 L200. Both were great cars. The only reason I traded the first one in was that it was just a bit too small inside. My local service department is awesome, as was the one I had to go to a few hundred miles away when I had problems with the car on a road trip. Not the car’s fault – I got a bad batch of gas that clogged the fuel injectors and catalytic converter, but the warranty covered almost the entire replacement.
A few months ago when I took it in for a routine service, I stopped to chat with my salesman about the future of Saturn. This was right after GM announced they’d probably be ditching the line, and no one had any idea what was going to happen. He and I both agreed that GM really blew a good thing. While Saturn never made a ton of money, it was the GM engineers’ playground, where they could experiment with a lot of off-the-wall ideas. The ones that succeeded moved up in the world to GM’s other models. Saturn not only had great customer loyalty, it was one of the few modern-day companies that employees seemed to stick with for a long time too. Almost all the current salespeople, maintenance crew, and even some of the administrative workers at my dealership were there in 2001 when I bought my first vehicle from them. I sure hope Penske considers this when they decide what direction they want to take the company. In fact, I think I’ll write and tell them so.
Dissent
It’s interesting to hear people who were happy with the Saturn. I had a 92 SL2. The catalytic converter went at about 40k, the engine wiring harness at ~70k, and the wheel bearings as well. The fuel gauge failed at about 80k. My 98 Passat handled much better. It was high maintenance, but at least it was scheduled maintenance.
Llelldorin
@stickler:
Korean, right, not Chinese? Renault Samsung?
Napoleon
My ex loves her 99 Saturn that she has had since new and now has 140k on it.
Mike in NC
I bought a 1996 Saturn SL2 when I worked at EDS (nice 13% employee discount below the MSRP). The salespeople and dealer were fine but my experience with the car itself was below average. Needed a fair amount of regular maintenance and I was fortunate to have had an extended warranty to cover the work. Glad most other people had better luck. I got next to nothing for the Saturn when I bought my 2004 Honda CR-V.
someguy
Y’all know that’s Penske of NASCAR and donations to Republicans like Susan Collins and Lamar Alexander, the RNC, Rudy and Mitt. That Penske.
I don’t know how the fuck you’ll be able to give money to drive one of his cars.
Henry Ford was a batshit racist nazi, but at least the Ford Foundation does some good, and the current family leadership involved with the company are looking to improve the environmental sustainability of their cars. But NASCAR people?
grumpy realist
My analysis is that the US car companies never did confront the real problem, which was that the whole have-a-car-that-craps-out-at-70K-miles-tinker-with-it-on-the-weekends schtick gradually got confined to a smaller and smaller population. The Japanese imports really got a boost at the first gas crisis and GM’s reaction on creating a “small car” for competition was pitiful: let’s make a *junky* small car so that people won’t buy them and they’ll go back to our big boats. (Even this may give them more strategy when they deserve–GM didn’t know how to make anything aside from boats which crapped out.) One commentator pointed out that GM cars were perfectly matched to GM executive weekend lifestyles: driving on long straight highways with few other cars on the road. The fact that such cars didn’t fit what the moneyed people on the coasts wanted was considered irrelevant. GM also never got through its dinosaur brain that people who were dissatisfied with the GM version of the small car wouldn’t go for something “higher up” in the chain; they’d simply go buy a Japanese car. And once getting used to Japanese reliability, they’d start to demand the same from US vehicles. Now cars regularly go 200K miles or more without major repairs and people aren’t so willing to buy a new car every year or two.
I’m not surprised that two US car companies have gone under; I’m just surprised it took them so long.
mistermix
The gas filler cover came off my ’96 Saturn SL2 the other day so it looks like a bit of a hooptie, but other than that it’s been a pretty good car. I don’t drive it much (88K miles), and I haven’t had to do any major repairs.
From what I’ve read, the rest of GM basically smothered Saturn in its crib. A good deal of the population wanted a decently-engineered small car, purchased without getting screwed. But GM management clearly didn’t. It’s a damn shame — I hope Penske can do something with the brand.
DecidedFenceSitter
Old Saturns = Good.
New Saturns = Horrible, pieces of shit that destroyed the brand.
Seriously, up till about 2001/2002 Saturns were developed using Toyota/Japanese style production methodologies. Checking the wiki, apparently it was in 2000 that Saturn and Opel started crossing brands; the contract with Spring Hill (where Saturns were built) was formally dissolved in 2004.
So new Saturns? Crap. Crappity, crap, crap. And this is after I drove a 2001 into the ground.
jcricket
Don’t know much about Saturns, but that’s absolutely true for Saab’s. The Saab nameplate now is just that.
I have a 2002 Saab wagon (it had been owned by GM for a while then). I like the way the car drives, but the engineering is absolutely terrible. There’s always something going wrong with that car (leak in the cooling system, lightbulb out on the console, etc).
Compare this to my wife’s Lexus, which has had exactly _zero_ problems in the 7 years we’ve owned it.
I’d never buy another GM car unless there was some serious proof they’d addressed quality control issues and longevity.
It’s not about styling, or the purchase experience, or “buy american” or whatever. If the cars continually give owners problems, people will stop buying them, and vice versa.
That’s what killed the American car manufacturers.
spot check billy
Between my father and our family we’ve owned 5 Saturns since ’92 – SC’s, an SL, an SW and a Vue. Other than one of the SLs that would kill the battery every 21 months or so with no warning, there’s been no problem beyond routine maintenance with any of them. They’re not prestige items or Viagra substitutes – but that’s what the guitars are for anyway.
I’m glad Penske is keeping it alive, but will be interested in whether they preserve anything but the nameplate by three years from now. The supposed plan is to contract manufacturing to Asia once GM stops making them, but to bring it back to the US (again on a contract basis – Penske isn’t going to be building their own plants) in the medium term.
Woodrow @21 – If it isn’t too far from you, try the dealer in Sterling. We’ve been getting service there for close to 15 years and have been satisfied.
The Other Steve
To be fair that wasn’t unique to American cars. The original Volkswagen Beetle was beloved by many because of how easy it was to work on. I’ve heard of people replacing an engine along the side of the road in just a couple of hours time.
Jay C
@grumpy realist:
G.R.: I’m far from certain that that attitude is dead, even nowadays – even though it’s mainly come from right-wing & Republican critiques of the Obama Admin’s plans for the auto industry: in among the inapt grousing about Teh Soshalizum and/or Teh Fashizum (Jonah Goldberg really is an idiot, isn’t he?) and the bile over the horror that the Eeevul Unions have any role in the matter at all; there’s definite bitterness that the American relationship with our cars may have to change. Although it’s usually expressed (like most rightwing critique these days) in simpleminded caricature (“Obama’s going to force us all to drive Smart Cars!“) the notion that the “real” American Car is an oversized, soft-riding freeway-boat (or an overpowered, under-engineered dragster) is one that’s not going to go away any time soon.
The Other Steve
@jcricket:
Uhhm, it’s a Saab. Saab has never been known for it’s reliability. They were always known for being quirky but a lot of fun. I think GM kept the quirky but lost a lot of the fun which upset many of it’s fans. The European brands have long been known as less reliable then the American brands. What made them great is that unique quirky character.
I drive a BMW and it’s an awesome car. 7 years old with 90k miles on it and still drives better than anything Japanese or American brand new. But it requires some tender loving care, as well as some boat payments for the BMW mechanic. About 3 years ago things started needing replacing. CV boots = $1100, Oil pump = $600, rear coil springs = $1500, steering u-joint = $900. Brake jobs are $450 for front or rear. Oil changes are $90 but only happen once a year. But it’s paid for, and as I said still drives better than most new cars and repairs are still cheaper then a new automobile. And there isn’t a spot of rust, whereas after 4 years my japanese cars generally had some rust.
And the thing is… BMW is the reliable european brand. Audi, Volkswagen, Jaguar and Mercedes are worse.
Ford also destroyed Jaguar by losing much of their unique styling influences. Volkswagen/Audi had a resurgence in 1999 with the launch of the redesigned A3 and A4 chassis models. Their cars are way better now, but still tend to have maintenance issues. But they’re fun to drive.
If you know the cars well it’s worth it. If you just want a reliable grocery getter, that’s what Toyota makes.
Aaron
Yup, another happy Saturn owner here. 2002 L200 and other than some minor issues with the radiator, no problems at all.
Also, do you think some of the issues surrounding the American car are generational? It seems like younger people are worried more about gas mileage than horsepower and care more about reliability than where it was manufactured.
Common Sense
@DecidedFenceSitter:
I suspect this is very true. I bought a 2002 Saturn L Series based on the many people I knew that loved their Saturns. The catalytic converter went out within a year. The ignition switch has had to be replaced twice. The AC went out. The radiator failed. The electronics are fouled up. And GM really needed to replace whoever did the interior design — the CD niche under the radio should slant slightly upwards so everything doesn’t fall out of it as I accelerate and the cup holders should have a divider to prevent drinks spilling over.
Gozer
I have a 1999 SL2 with 119000 miles on it. My dad bought it used in 2003 after my parents’ divorce and drove it HARD (100+ miles per day) for 3 years before turning it over to me.
It’s still going strong today…though the interior is a bit funky (pieces of trim falling off, someone stole the radio out of it and broke the electronic door locks, etc.), but mechanically the car is in top shape and it has been abused.
Existenz
My first car was a 1996 Saturn SL2. It was still going strong at 110,000 miles about two years ago when I sold it. It got great gas mileage (about 32mpg) and only needed minimal repairs over the years.
The car was even in a terrible accident where I was T-boned by a car going 35 mph — but the car drove home and only needed two doors replaced.
I don’t know how Saturn quality held up in the last decade, but that was a well made car with good fuel efficiency and cheap-to-replace parts.
babieca
My brother is an electrician and his Saturn is everything GM wants you to think their big tough-guy trucks are. After he ran the first one into the ground he went out and bought another.
There is a trunk full of tools, a pair of boots in the back seat, and the whole thing is always covered in mud halfway up the fenders. It turns out, however, that guys who have to drive to job sites across three states actually want a car that gets 35mpg and will take a beating and keep on running. Funny how that never makes it into the commercials.
grumpy realist
What’s so infuriating is that the US car companies *could* create great quality cars if they wanted to–I’m always surprised no one brought back smaller, trimmer versions of the “classic” cars from the 1950s done with the panache and styling of that period but using modern technology. Seems to me that there would be enough Baby Boomers around who would love a spin in that sort of car. And WHY is it absolutely impossible for car companies to get away from the “bigger == better” mentality?! Why doesn’t anyone make a *small* luxury car?
(I can’t stand US cars but that’s because of the sloppy steering–I’m too used to tight, European-style handling. Don’t want to feel that I’m driving a marshmallow down the road.)
El Cruzado
@grumpy realist:
CAFE is partly to blame for the “bigger is better” mentality. Small cars need to be sold to comply with CAFE standars, but bigger cars make bigger profits, therefore small cars are built to be cheap, and it shows.
Frankly, every time I go back to Spain it looks like I’m looking at the street of the future. I dunno if everyone there buys sedans anymore other than BMWs and MBs.
Let’s hope that Penske brings in some interesting models rather than some cheaply made Korean blandmobiles. We could use some french-designed cars around (yeah, I know, make your own joke about the French). I thought maybe with Renault and Nissan going together we’d see some with Nissan badges but apparently they’ve decided to become, in the US, the slightly-rounded-blandmobile brand.
clonecone
Apple should have bought it so the the two cults could merge.
REN
@ grumpy realist
You mean cars like the 57 Chev or Ford or the original T-bird? Great cars for their time. How about the Studebaker Commander?
Re: your first comment. You hit the nail on the head. After the oil embargo in the 70s, they never really tried to make a small car which could be successful. They never believed that the Japanese could steal their customers.
I live in an area of the US which is permanently in recession. 9.4% unemployment, which is a disaster to the rest of the US, is the norm here. Therefore, trends in things like car buying will show up here before other places.
Car dealers here have been hanging on for years now, and without used car sales,many of which come from auctions in the cities, they would be done for. People here do not buy $50,000.00 vehicles. They want economy,in price and efficiency,both of which are seriously lacking in Detroit products.
I believe that this trend will become widespread ,and the companies that recognize this and act on it will be the survivors. I’m not sure any of the dinosaurs in Detroit will get it before it’s too late.
I worked at a Ford dealership for 20 years and a GM for 15 years.Both have since closed, well before this current “recession”. Some of the finest people I have known were employed there. I hope for the sake of those still in this business that I am wrong.
Fallsroad
*waves from the Saturn bandwagon*
When my wife and I were very poor and not yet married her Dad, a retired cop who routinely rebuilt and customized cars in an afternoon in his front yard called her and told her to get down to the local Saturn dealership and “pick out her color”. He had arranged to make full payment on an SC-1, which he had test driven at a dealership in his state.
So we went down and gave her a spin. My wife really liked it, the staff were very easygoing, and we felt no compulsion or obligation to try and haggle the price down on her father’s behalf, since the prices were set. She signed the paperwork, was presented with her keys and a round of applause, and we were off.
It only has about 70,000 miles on it, despite two cross country moves, has never required anything more than routine maintenance, and while the interior is beginning to look rather shabby, it gets fantastic mileage and we won’t be unloading it until it literally drops dead.
Her brother also had an SC-1 which he sold off years ago, to his everlasting regret.
I’m not sure what the future holds for Saturn, but this has been the best car either her family or mine has ever owned.
Wile E. Quixote
@El Cruzado
CAFE is a stupid idea that should be gut shot and left to rot in a ditch. We should dump CAFE and instead charge a sales tax based upon mileage, basically the gas guzzler tax applied to all vehicles. That’s a more direct way to encourage people to drive more fuel efficient cars, let them see a big line item on the sticker that says “This car gets lousy mileage, so not only will you pay out the ass for gas but we’re also going to charge you money for buying it.”. CAFE was and still is a an incredibly stupid political compromise that’s full of holes and which was designed to accomplish an end, increased fuel efficiency, by pretending that the means necessary to accomplish that end wouldn’t have any costs or require any sacrifices.
Gregory
Another satisfied Saturn owner here — the first car I ever bought was a 1991 Saturn SL1 with a manual transmission. It lasted more than 10 years and 100,000 miles until it started burning oil. I probably could have fixed it — it was still getting 30 mpg city — but I traded it in on a diesel New Beetle (which I also love).
I might have stuck with Saturn, but they’d phased out the model and didn’t offer much in the way of a small sedan.
FlipYrWhig
I have never understood the “tinkering with your car” mentality. There’s complicated shit in there, and I’ll only fuck it up, and cars are expensive. How is that desirable? Ideally, I would never see the guts of my car. The same goes for computers, appliances, and animal carcasses. Keep that shit sealed up and if there’s a problem, let the experts handle it.
Evinfuilt
Had an SC2 and original Vue. Last time I went car shopping I was in and our of the Saturn dealership so fast I might as well not have gone. None of the cars looked or felt like Saturns, it was a Pontiac store with a different name.
b-psycho
We’d still have our ’96 4-door Saturn if it weren’t for those deer that kept trying to fuck it.
grumpy realist
FlipYrWhig–that’s why it’s also a generational thing–working on the car has been a male bonding thing/rite of passage, but it only works when *you* can actually “fix” the car in the garage. The average car supposedly now has more computing power in it than Apollo 11 did, what with the sensors and the direct gas injection stuff and all that.
Cars don’t occupy the same position in people’s lives that they used to in the 1950s, and the requirements people have for them are different.
Why Detroit never understood that having a lot of crappy cars out on the road would simply drive people away from buying their vehicles *if they had an alternative* is just….crazy. Detroit didn’t seem to notice that once people had experience with a good non-Detroit vehicle, there would be very little reason for those people to go *back* to a US car unless there would be something distinguishing about said US car. Saturn was able to occupy the niche for a while…but then GM trashed the quality of *that* brand, as well.
As said, idiotic.
Chuck Butcher
Saturn was the go-away choice because it competed with Chevy, that simple. My wife has a new 09 Impala, it has a soft ride with crisp steering, gets over 30mpg, is almost silent inside – a very nice car. It has 6K miles and is perfect. I’ve been around performance cars for nearly 40 years, I know cars and this is a good one.
The 04 SSR is an immaculate handling cool truck, it is also a low production model. Be under no mistake, that truck will take any car short of a sports car in curves and it weighs 5,000 pounds.
We had an 03 Pontiac Grand Am that was noisy and uncomfortable. I never liked it.
If you don’t understand car enthusiasts, that’s fine you probably have enthusiasms that would bore me to tears. It has nothing to do with my dick, but I do have a 62 Chevy II sedan that comes off the line pulling 1.5 g’s and is a handling every day auto (at 15 mpg premium)((the first 60′ – 4 lanes, is 0-47mph)). Different strokes, folks. It would scare most people white, I just like it. The only place it hot rods is on NHRA dragstrips, otherwise it is just cruised. I have nothing to prove, I either win races or I don’t, my living doesn’t depend on it.
I built it, every bolt, nut, or screw has been taken out and every part rebuilt or replaced with something very modern. I drive a personal achievement – and you? And who cares?
grumpy realist
Chuck….loved your description….but I notice that you’re having great fun rebuilding a 1962 Chevy II sedan, not a recent car, right?
What I’m saying is that the “tinkering with the car” culture isn’t as standard as it used to be, plus the cars you *can* tinker with aren’t what are getting built at present. And I doubt that we’re going to find a tinkering-with-the-cars-we-normally-drive culture continuing quite as much as more and more of the cars out there get more and more chip-heavy and less able to be, y’know, overhauled the way that cars used to be. Until a secondary market for used and replacement chips starts being created…
I still think that Detroit should have gone retro and recreated some of those old cars with fantastic styling but with modern technology. Japanese-level engineering, GM/Chrysler panache in styling: win-win.
Will Slattery
After my Saturn set itself on fire, I begged the Saturn company to investigate the cause of the fire — but they weren’t interested.
Here’s what happened. The Saturn’s dome light had a delay: I’d close the door and walk away, and the light would shine for 20 seconds or so before turning off.
One day the dome light did not turn off. The light stayed on, melted through its plastic cover, and set the tops of the seat-backs on fire. There was a basket of laundry in the back set: it set that on fire. Eventually, so much of the passenger compartment burned up that the car was declared a total loss.
Since Saturn doesn’t care why that fire happened, I don’t care why Saturn went out of business — and if they stay out of business, I’ll feel safer on the road.
Glocksman
I recently bought a used 2008 Kia Spectra EX with just under 20k on the clock for $10,500.
Locally that kind of money would buy a Chevy Cobalt, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Ford Focus, or Dodge Caliber of similar age and mileage.
So why didn’t I buy one of those cars?
Warranty.
The Kia still has 3.5 years/40000 miles of factory bumper to bumper warranty left on it.
That’s more warranty than a brand new Ford, Chrysler, or GM vehicle has straight from the factory.
When the big 2.5 offer 5/60 bumper to bumper warranties and/or develop a rep for quality like Toyota or Honda, I’ll look at a Cobalt, Caliber, or Focus.
Woodrowfan
thanks, I will.
Good God I hope not, I like my 07 Hybrid Vue.
Tucker
@Woodrowfan: It seems that the Vue’s the exception that proves the rule of “post-2002 Saturns are crap.” I’ve yet to hear anyone, anywhere, with anything nice to say about an Aura or an Ion (replacements for the L and S series respectively).
I /do/ like the look of the Sky (aka Pontiac Solstice or Opel, um, Somethingorother) and the ten people that bought one all seem to like it well enough.
(My ’94 Mazda Protege’s engine caught fire over Xmas 2004 and I bought a used SC2 three weeks later. Wonderful car, and looks pretty sweet as well.)
Ben
I have a ’98 SL I picked up while in grad school (lease price was right for my low income then).
11 years later, the mileage keeps getting better. I am 95%/5 highway/city driving. The first 7 years or so the mileage was 37-38 on the head. The last 4 have been 40 on the head. If it dropped below I knew it was time for plugs, etc. I just filled up today after a trip and put on 376 miles – I thought the fuel gauge was stuck just below half so I stopped to fill it up this afternoon. 7.2 gallons. This translates to 52.2 MPG. I have done nothing to this car over the years besides plugs/brakes/tires, etc. 180,000 miles and not even a clutch! (every time I push in the clutch the past few years I am awaiting the *clunk* of it going out).
I looked around a year ago at replacing it and I am quite disappointed that I can’t get EVEN CLOSE to the mileage without buying a hybrid. If you look year to year on the Saturn from ’98 the mileage has gone down. Truly, I just want to buy a new version of the ’98 again and be done with it! I refuse to pay the $5k – 10k premium for a hybrid just to attain the mileage I am now receiving.
Anyway, I googled this mileage when I got home here and was happy to see this site. Honestly, I am dumbfounded at the mileage. It must be about to blow up. :-)
Ben
Jesse Rector
i have a 96 sl1 saturn it have 10000 miles on it now it just turn over yesterday sept,20,09 and it sill going run good and i buy it from a friend last two year i think and i buy it for $1,200 and i love it it relly nice car and i hope it last for other five years it have few problums with it starting and gulch is going out i think i cant feel it and i going to replace it new one guch on it it a four speed manul i can go 0 to 60 in five min on the highway it a fast car i can used to go 120 on the free way after awaile it shake to much power of speed great gas mile good work saturn people