Is it finally the end of the road in the never-ending election:
Seven months after Minnesota’s Senate election, the state’s highest court hasn’t reached a decision but election law experts agree: Norm Coleman doesn’t have a prayer.
These experts see almost no chance Coleman’s lawyers will prevail in their appeal to the state’s high court to count more ballots in a bid to erase Al Franken’s slim lead.
Peter Knapp, a professor at William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul, pointed to the court’s oral arguments on Monday, when the justices expressed skepticism toward Coleman’s lawyer, Joe Friedberg.
“Each of the five justices asked some questions that seemed to hone in on the absence of evidence,” said Knapp, an expert on the Minnesota Supreme Court who has kept a close eye on the case. “And when each of the five are asking those questions, that’s significant.”
He cautioned that “it’s really easy to over-read the judges’ questions as a sign of the way they’re leaning,” but added: “That being said, if I had to put money on the outcome – my money would be on Franken.”
I’ve read several places that unless the court directly demands Pawlenty sign off on this election, he will delay it further. I really like that as a commentary as to what is required to be wingnutty enough for national office as a Republican- the best way to prove your street cred is to screw your state out of a Senator now that they aren’t going to be voting for you for Governor. It really is a fascinating mindset.
WereBear
It’s gone beyond ridiculous. Maybe their base loves “win at all costs,” but really, it makes them look like they don’t like governing, just winning.
Which we all know to be true.
gwangung
Outing covert agents out of political pique, blocking the results of a fair election…hey it’s all a hallmark of 21st Century Republicans.
Rey
Why are most Repub elected official’s so damn stubborn when it comes down to just doing the right thing, even if it means a Democrat is the recipient? T-Paw is an idiot- even if he wins the Repub nom for Prez in 2012, his own state probably won’t vote for him because of this. Dumbass….
Edgar
It is past time to install Frankenfool. It will be very destructive to the Dimocrats, in time. Stuart Smalley goes to Washington. Why not him, indeed?
Bill E Pilgrim
The funny thing is when Franken becomes the next Democratic Senator, it’s going to feel like another demoralizing blow to the GOP when they’re down. If they’d just let it be certified earlier, it could have been absorbed more as just part of the overall shock of losing so badly, and they’d be six months away from the disaster of the election and closer to (some day, maybe) moving on.
HRA
It’s their mindset and I hope they hold it forever and ever.
It’s an additional minus to the other crazies now ruling their party. I see the outcome up close and personal. My husband was one very true blue conservative who has turned away from them rapidly. I can’t help being amazed.
kommrade reproductive vigor
1. Stay the course!
2. Bring it on!
3. I’m melting! I’m meeeeelting!
Ked
Not to concern-troll, but if it’s so bloody obvious who’s going to win, why has the court sat on this time-sensitive case all week? This is the sort of thing that makes my heartburn worse.
Edgar
Ked knows little about judges or justices. Many are lawyers who “moved up” to the capacious black robe so they no longer have to observe deadlines and can take their sweet time issuing their pronouncements. The heartburn of political spectators is not their concern.
Barring a major upset of expectations, the former candidate Pete Tagliani from Saturday Night Live’s golden age will be named a Senator from Minnesota, and then the true embarassment will begin. Later shall commence the second Al Franken decade, possibly coinciding with the credible candidacy for President of this fellow who is suitably comical to replace El Jefe.
Why do Minnesootans elect nationally known buffoons to statewide office? First a boa-brandishing wrestler becomes governor, and then some kind of occult majority of six or eight gives this troglodyte an entry-level position high up in the national misgovernment.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Ked:
They’re in cahoots with the pharmaceutical company that makes proton-pump inhibitors.
gbear
This has been Tim Pawlenty’s mission statement since he was House Majority Leader back in the days of Jesse. Jesse’s term wouldn’t have turned out so bad except for TPaw’s complete devotion to Grover Nordquist’s desire to drown government in a bathtub (well, that and Jesse’s ego).
Now that he’s decided to set his sights on higher office and not on a third term for governor (which he probably would have lost anyway), he doesn’t have to be accountable to MN at all. He can drop the few pretenses that he had. If he does drag his feet on signing Franken’s certificate, he’ll be the most hated man in MN, and he won’t even care.
The sickening thing about this is Tim’s only got three chances at national office: Slim, Fat and None. He doesn’t even see what a joke he is now.
rachel
You mean the boa-brandishing wrestler who has actually served as a SEAL in Vietnam? (Unlike any Replican politician, commentator or pundit I’ve ever heard of.) The boa-brandishing wrestler who didn’t have a bridge collapse during his term as Governer of Minnesota? That boa-brandishing wrestler?
rob!
Strike another match, Norm, go start anew
gbear
@Edgar:
Are you writing from a timezone where it’s already OK to be half in the bag, or are you still working on last night’s bender?
Steeplejack
@gbear:
Brunch. Mimosas. Just sayin’.
Uncle Mike
I don’t think Pawlenty is really interested in dragging this out. Minnesotans are already annoyed that this has gone on so long. Polls show a majority wanted Coleman to concede months ago.
If the state Supreme Court rules against Coleman, Pawlenty would make himself very unpopular if he refused to sign the certificate.
That matters. He will never be President if he can’t flip Minnesota. He can’t afford to piss off the voters back home.
I think he’s quietly hoping Coleman concedes and saves him from having to make the decision.
The Other Steve
I actually doubt pawlenty will delay in signing any certificate.
He’s conniving, but he ain’t stupid. Playing such games would not help him get to higher office.
gbear
@Ked:
The courts (and Franken’s lawyers) want to make sure that every i gets dotted and there is nothing in their ruling that can be used to justify taking the case to the Federal courts. They’ve been doing an amazing job of it so far.
They’ve also been bending over backwards to make sure that Norm’s side has had every chance to make compelling arguments. ‘Failure’ doesn’t begin to describe Norm’s presentation.
In a week or so, this will be over. There will be no doubt that Coleman lost the case completely.
Will
I like to call these kinds of moves “Romneys”. Get elected as a moderate in a left-of-center state like Minnesota or Massachussetts. Decline to run for re-election. Suddenly become a right-wing nightmare for your state. Run for national office trashing the values of the state that previously elected you.
Montysano
@Edgar:
You must be referring to the candidate who washed dishes to pay for a Harvard education, graduating cum laude with a degree in political science?
gbear
@The Other Steve:
Do you really think Tim has a shot at being any higher than fourth or fifth in any republican staw poll or primary? I think he’s going to be the boy who gets overlooked despite having done absolutely everything that his handlers demanded of him. ‘Sorry Tim, it’s just not your time’. He’ll wind up in a think tank somewhere.
My other guess is that Tim will sign the certificate right away even if not ordered by the court, but when he signs it he’ll say something that implies that the courts actually were ordering his signature. That seems to be his style.
gex
@Edgar: Because when your other options are people like Coleman, you take what you can get. He’s the one who lost to the wrestler and the comic. If the GOP doesn’t want to lose to people like this, they need to find a palatable candidate.
Instead, they’ll probably try to promote Bachmann.
Kennedy
This story used to piss me off, and I used to bemoan Coleman’s refusal to concede what is, by all accounts, a losing battle, but he’s actually doing Franken and the DNC a favor.
The RNC has spent something to the tune of $750,000 in delaying the inevitable. It will be hilarious come 2010 when they need that money to defend other seats, and it has been pissed away on a seat that was never defensible, by many accounts, for the last several months.
Marc
See also: Sanford, Mark.
LD50
Hey, be fair! He did beat Wellstone after Wellstone died.
gocart mozart
But he had to resort to a negative smear campaign against the dead guy’s family in order to do it.
gbear
@gocart mozart:
That period between Wellstone’s death and the election was so sad and sickening. I’ve heard Franken say that it was the sliming of the democrats after Wellstone’s funeral that convinced him that he had to get into politics.
Throwin Stones
Dylan!
Martin
Wait, why does anyone think that Pawlenty will actually sign off on this? He’s got no reason to do so, and every reason not to.
teapotdome
This has been dragging on longer than the 2000 presidential election. Shows the difference between Democrats and the whiny, crybaby Repubs. And they wonder why they’ve lost America??
Stacy
It wouldn’t surprise me if Normie bowed out so that Pawlenty can be free of the decision. I’ve heard rumors that Normie might try to run for Governer again after this is over, so it would be win win for both, Pawlenty isn’t put into any situations that pit the base and the moderates against him, Normie can tell tales about how he selflessly decided not to drag it out to the Federal Courts because he cares so much about Minnesotans (and he will, too, because he’s a fucking sleazy douchebag).
If the GOP climate is in 2010-11 as it is now, Pawlenty will never win the nomination. He’s doesn’t have the culture war cred. He doesn’t have the libertarian cred. If they go back to their “fiscal roots” though, he could stand a chance. That’s been his path all along, he’s seriously fucked my state over in order to uphold his “no new taxes” pledge. Because you know, the whole moderate “Don’t raise taxes but don’t cut spending we’ll just pay that shit off later” mindset worked out so well for California.
For some dumb reasons, maybe the Bachmann effect, there are Minnesotans that really like Pawlenty. He really is a charming motherfucker. But his popularity declines every year, he wouldn’t of even won the last election if Mike Hatch hadn’t imploded right before the voting started. So I’d be curious if he could carry this state in an election. Minnesotans are a prideful lot and will side with one of their own (see 1984 presidential election). But Pawlenty may have worn out his welcome here, we tend not to be fond of politics as usual (see election of Arnie Carlson, Jesse Ventura). And I think many Minnesotans are catching on to the fact that he’s been playing us for some time now.
Will
@gbear:
Yes, I think days between Wellstone’s death and the election were probably the darkest for me in my lifetime, in some ways emotionally rivalling Bush v Gore. I was also working on a losing Democratic campaign in NY at the time, sporting a very loud death rattle. Wellstone’s death was unbelievably crushing to morale. The way in which the GOP somehow, someway managed to actually use his memorial service to their sickening advantage was utterly mesmerizing. It’s not a lack of shame. It’s the lack of a soul.
bago
As Ashcroft can testify, it’s a hard to beat a dead guy.
Oh shit, that rhymes.
bago
A strict adherence to the rule of law.
A rigor-lection. Is that what it’s called?
Will
I should have added the qualifier “politically speaking”. I’ve had tougher days than that otherwise!
Charon
@Stacy:
I’m not so sure about this. The libertarians always end up voting for some “fiscal conservative” in the end regardless of his social positions. Also, the fact that Pawlenty is pro-life combined with a continued stand against seating Franken could earn him enough culture war cred to siphon off votes from Sanford and Huckabee. These two factors, combined with the fact that GOP “moderates” are still looking for a candidate could provide a similar path to the nomination to the one that McCain took.
Edited out last sentence of the block quote to make my point clearer.
Land of 10,000 Fakes
Montysano:
I would rather be governed by the first name in the Eden Prairie phone book than by the first dishwasher to squeak his way through Harvard College.
Cum laudes at Harvard are handed out at first year registration. You only have to turn it back in if you drop out, which is rare.
LD50
@Land of 10,000 Fakes:
Yeah, and Rush also told me that they hand out summa cum laude degrees at Princeton like candy.
Now, five different colleges before getting a BA in communications-journalism at the University of Idaho — THAT is achievement.
(Or, for Minnesota more specifically, a J.D. degree from Oral Roberts University is certainly impressive leadership material.)
Land of 10,000 Fakes
LD 50, you’ve got to stop listening to Rush, and changing the topic.
freelancer
Wow, the signal to noise ratio in this thread is starting to get embarrassing. I think I’ll go for a bike ride.
JL
@Land of 10,000 Fakes:
Working while attending school at Harvard is an achievement. Don’t embarrass yourself by pretending otherwise. Rush at least gets a hefty paycheck for spouting nonsense.
Land of 10,000 Fakes
Freelancer:
Wear your helmet this time.
Land of 10,000 Fakes
JL:
You don’t know what you’re talking about. The likely soon-to-be Senator did his ‘umble dishwashing as part of a work-study program. In other words, he got college credit while he scrubbed and rinsed. It’s not like he slaved for minimum wage at the Tasty or the Wursthaus or any other Harvard Square eatery of the era, and then hit the books thereafter. He washed dishes in lieu thereof. Not quite as impressive, is it?
Why does every mentally inbred left wingnut push the “Rush” button? It’s Pavlovian.
Yutsano
Why does every rightwingnut spout the same nonsense over and over again? Here’s an idea genius: put your money where your mouth is and you get your ass into Harvard or Princeton. Get back to us when you pull that off kthx.
Wile E. Quixote
@Edgar
Dude, your shit is weak, I mean look at Norm Coleman, he’s a fuck-up, he got his ass handed to him by Jesse Ventura, that boa wearing wrestler you decry (who could beat you senseless with one arm tied behind his back and not even break a sweat or breathe heavily while doing so). He barely won against Walter Mondale, the dullest Democrat to ever run for national office, a man who was barely alive in 1984 and less so in 2002. He lost his bid to become head of the NRSC to Elizabeth Dole, you know, one-term Liz, the Republican from North Carolina who lost to Kay Hagan last year. Then he goes up against Stuart Smalley and loses the election. He lost and in the most dickheaded way imaginable. Every time that they counted votes more votes were revealed as being for Franken, even when the standards used for counting the votes are the ones advocated by Coleman.
But this shouldn’t be an issue, I mean if Coleman and the Republican party are so great, if they aren’t in fact one of the biggest assemblages of fuck-ups in history then they should have pulled ahead and defeated Franken by an obscenely huge margin, or at least by as many votes as they had when they ran against the late Walter Mondale back in 2002 (look, Mondale’s been dead for years, and I wish that people would stop telling me that he’s merely “pining for the fjords”).
So here you are whining about Stuart Smalley and the Dimocrats, but those Dimocrats handed your guy his ass. Coleman is a fuck-up, and even for someone coming from a political party full of fuckups (Dick Cheney, Larry Craig, Mike Foley, George W. Bush, Newt Gingrich) he stands out as having some serious fuck-up cred.
Of course if you really knew anything about Norm you’d know that he’s not exactly what you’d call a true, blue, dyed in the wool conservative. Oh no, Norm used to be quite liberal, until 1996 he was a Minnesota Democrat, a member of the same party as Al Franken, George McGovern and Walter Mondale. Back in the 1970s old Tim was quite the student firebrand as well, admonishing students to vote for him because “these conservative kids don’t fuck or get high like we do (purity, you know)…” and championing the cause of marijuana legalization, because he was a big time dope smoker and a total DFH.
Of course all that changed when he was a Republican, well at least it all changed in public, in private Norm might still be every bit as much of a doper as he was back in the 1970s, and his wife is pretty hot, so who knows what goes on with his fucking? On the other hand Larry Craig did meet his downfall at Minneapolis-St Paul airport, so who knows, maybe he was waiting for Norm. Or maybe he was waiting for you?
But what it boils down to is this. When your guy gets his ass handed to him by a boa-wearing wrestler and an annoying comedian and, in a historical election year for his party, barely wins election over Walter Mondale (The biggest loser in Democratic history.) then you need to find a new guy.
benjoya
i’m surprised norm’s going away party has gotten so many on the right so teary-eyed. i would think after all their recent losing, they’d be used to it by now.
LD50
See here. It might help.
LD50
I would guess he wants to avoid college since he heard somewhere that universities are full of moonbats and he’s afraid he might catch liberal.
gwangung
Um, no. Work study doesn’t mean getting credit. It’s part of financial aid.
In other words, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
shoutingattherain
@Wile E. Quixote
Yeah. Now that’s good rant.
ruemara
@Land of 10,000 Fakes: You do not know what a “work-study” program is. I did work-study in NYU, all I got was some funding, not grades, not school credit. At least read up before you post on shit.
Land of 10,000 Fakes
Yutsano and LD 50:
I did the Harvard thing. Law school, no less. Even knew the current Prez. Not everybody opposed to your worldview who enjoys inflaming you pathetos is a stranger to ejakation, whatever your insecure condescension may motivate you to express.
Gwangung:
It was “cooperative education” — remember that? It was for credit, you bozo. Harvard is well steeped in giving people credit for real life work experience undertaken during their time in 02138. It’s great for the university — it was free labor. It was great for the student so inclined — no-strain credits except a pathetic strain who got pickled hands.
Land of 10,000 Fakes
Wile E. Coyote:
To criticize Stuart Smalley is not to compliment Norm Coleman. You are one long free-fall off a logic cliff with a thud at the bottom, aren’t you?
Land of 10,000 Fakes
Ruemara:
NYU ain’t Harvard, but sadly, sadly, you already knew that.
LD50
Sure. But not cum laude, evidently.
Ooh, Greek, sounds like our new wingnut here is going for a George Will/William F. Buckley effect.
But… isn’t that elitist?
LD50
@Land of 10,000 Fakes:
A splendid way to avoid admitting you were full of shit. Bravo.
Yutsano
So what do you want a cookie? Okay Mr. Lawyer, why aren’t you volunteering to work ol’ Norm’s case then? Or do you realize a legal dog when you see one?
gbear
@Land of 10,000 Fakes:
Cleanup to aisles 52-54. Bring a shovel, a mop and lots of disinfectant.
asiangrrlMN
Oh, good lord. People, do not feed the stupid trolls. They are so below our usual troll standards. They make B.O.B. look like a fucking genius.
As for Ratface Pawlenty, he’s a self-serving fucker, and he always will be. I heard him on the teevee saying that we are now in a country that resembles a South American country circa the 1970s. He’s definitely gearing up for a national political run.
Stacy is right, though, that many Minnesotans find him charming and a moderate. However, his popularity has continued to steadily drop since the Franken (FREE AL FRANKEN)/ Coleman fiasco. As it should.
gbear, well said.
gwangung
I also remember going through school as an undergrad and what financial aid required from a middle class family. You really think his parents footed the entire bill? Work study was invariably a part of any financial aid package.
Mario Piperni
Here’s the perfect cartoon/video to describe the Coleman farce.
TenguPhule
Is it okay if we poison the bait first?
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Fix’t.
Hey, even Harvard needs janitors. Good for you.
Land of 10,000 Fakes
gbear:
You are quite selective with your calls for shovels, etc. in the supermarket aisles here. Evidently messes are a matter of perspective to you.
asiangrrlMN:
I consider myself fully fed. I’ll let you return to your echo chamber complacency.
DougL:
I love the distant possible reference (unintended?) to Caddyshack: Judge Smails: “the world needs ditchdiggers too.” You have half a wit, possibly.
This Harvard cum laude visitor hereby signs off — go about your appalling circle jerking business, folks.
Yutsano
Anyone else feel like calling bullpuckey?
LD50
@Land of 10,000 Fakes:
Aw, c’mon! Two or three more Greek insults and you’d have won the argument!
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Fix’t.
Yup, that’s some high purity, Grade A wingnut bullshit they are snorting.
I’ll pass though, cocaine is safer.
geg6
We need a better class of troll around here. Harvard, my ass. Only uneducated idiot wingnuts who never saw an ivy covered wall don’t know what work study and cooperative education actually are. Meanwhile, Loser Norm is going down in more ways than one. Not only do I gleefully await the day that Senator Franken joins his colleagues in the Senate, I have a bottle of champaigne awaiting the video of Coleman doing a perp walk on my teevee screen.
SGEW
@geg6: Careful what you wish for. Last time we asked for a better class of troll we got B.O.B., and now it seems we’re stuck with him.
Yutsano
I’m calmly awaiting the day when he gets sin binned again. I love that term, mostly because I can’t imagine what it would take for you to get thrown out of a hockey game.
geg6
SGEW, next to this guy, BOB’s rantings sound like Emerson. BOB is definitely nuts, but he has great stories. I love when he gives us glimpses of his adventures with the oppposite sex at tea parties and bars and such. He’s quite entertaining sometimes. ;)
gbear
Why, yes. Yes, I am. Thank you for noticing.
HyperIon
IIRC Matt Yglesias (who went there) says Harvard bestows cum laude on more than 1/3 of its grads. Which is strange. But evidently they are rather unusual in their largesse.
And work study at UF in the 70s was a part of a financial aid package. i worked in the freshman chem lab making stock solutions and handing out equipment. for $1.50 an hour up to 15 hours per week. That’s how I got through undergrad with virtually no debt.
Yutsano
I did quite a few different job for work study on campus, mostly office-related. Still got out with a shit ton of debt. Nevertheless it is WORK, regardless of what the wingnuts want to label it. Especially if Franken was scrubbing cafeteria dishes (eww).