A quick Lily update. She spent the whole night in her crate, and she doesn’t like to get out of it much. I got her out of it at 6:30, and she immediately came into the home office with me and hid underneath the desk. I had to get her out, took her down to the Rails to Trails paths, and we went for an hour walk.
I haven’t seen her eat or do #2 yet, but she did do #1 and there were no accidents anywhere in the cage or elsewhere, so I guess that is good. She is just really, really timid. That isn’t a concern for now, and is to be expected. I’d be timid if I were in her shoes, and it doesn’t help that she has a guy who walks like Lurch at the other end of the leash and a ginormous cat sizing her up as a tasty snack. If she continues to stay in her shell, I will worry about it in a couple of weeks.
She really has no clue what to do on a leash, though. Sometimes she walks right by me, other times she runs around in a circle looking like she is trying to get away from me, other times she acts like a normal dog. She also does not seem to care for any of the doggie treats (although this will surprise no one to learn that Tunch absolutely loves them), and she is not chewing her bone and doesn’t know what to do with bones. I’m really guessing she has never been socialized at all and has no clue how to be a dog.
She swallowed her pill with no problem (Prednisone), and she didn’t fight me when I gave her her liquid medicine (Cephalexin). I measured out her food last night, so when I get home from work I will measure what is left and see if she has eaten anything. Hopefully she just needs to reach a comfort level. As I type this, I hear Tunch in the other room trying to get at the treats I have on a shelf, so I need to wrap this up.
Other than that, things are going well. I’m just going to give her some time and try to balance giving her space with making sure she knows who the leader of the pack is around here.
Any thoughts?
The Grand Panjandrum
The dog will be fine. I don’t know if you are going to make it all the way through game 7, are you? Have you made “arrangements” just in case?
Tim Fuller
Exactly who is the leader of the pack around there? Clarification please because I don’t think Lily is the only one confused.
Enjoy.
gex
May I just say that it is fun to share your experience with you on your blog?
My rescued dog was not nearly as traumatized as your dear Lily. (Great name, BTW). Still, it took him a few weeks to really get comfortable and act like he was at home. It’s clear you are being gentle and patient with her, and she will come around.
What a beautiful dog. I’m glad she found a good home.
Edit: OT – I don’t even know what to say about #4 on this list. How to be persuasive Waste for waste’s sake?
schrodinger's cat
Awww she is so cute. Tunch has another minion to boss around. Tunch likes dog treats? I just hope he doesn’t think of the dog as treat. BTW who is Lurch?
schrodinger's cat
Tunch, JC can correct me, if I am wrong.
Violet
Sounds like you’re doing a great job! Making sure she does get outside for walks is good, even though she’s a bit in shock right now and doesn’t quite understand what’s going on. And then just letting her be so she can get used to her new home on her own terms and with her own timeframe.
I think you’re right that if it doesn’t change at all in a few weeks, then it will be cause for concern. But at the moment, just keep doing what you’re doing. Consistency with a schedule is probably a good first step, so she knows what to expect. With a poor doggie as traumatized as she is, letting her know what to expect is a great place to start.
She looks so pitiful in her picture. Awww….. She’s so lucky to have you. And you her.
gex
@schrodinger’s cat: Oh my. Too young to remember the Adam’s Family?
Skepticat
Ur doin it rite.
(I can’t believe that a woman who’s been a professional copywriter, editor, and proofreader for forty-two years just wrote that.)
Michelle
I volunteer at a no kill shelter and Lily is displaying all the tendencies of a dog who was not properly socialized as a puppy. It will take a lot of time and patience for her to gain trust in you and her new home. Thank you for taking her.
Laura W
@schrodinger’s cat: Lurch was the Addams Family’s huge, lumbering, bizarro man servant.
It is too bad he did not work for the Munsters, though, because John as Lurch walking Lily (as in Munster) is rich.
growingdaisies
You’re doing a great job with your dog — lots of patience and kindness will help her relax.
I used to work for a vet magazine, so I might have some advice if you need it. Can I ask what kind of treats you’re trying? I found little cut-up pieces of hot dog were the perfect training tool when I was working with my dog. If you can find a treat she’s interested in, it’ll definitely help with the leash training.
guster
I adopted a hairless, skeletal Boxer years ago–abused pretty badly, covered in scabs, etc. Just took a few weeks for her to get over the fear. What helped most was a dog person suggesting that I ignore her more. If I paid too much attention to her, she’d crouch and do submissive peeing and get pretty miserable.
So when I got home, I’d just sorta stroll past her, settle in. Let her come to me. Took a few weeks. (Though she remained terrified of kitchens her whole life, and refused to enter them. She really seemed to understand the concept ‘kitchen’, too; you couldn’t fool her. She knew a kitchen, and she knew they were all after her.)
She became the sweetest, loveliest dog. She died a few years ago. I adored her. Such a sweet soul. I still miss her.
So that’s my advice, everything you already know. Take it slow, give her time. It’ll take her a while to realize she’s really with you.
Svensker
How is Tunch taking the new addition — besides going after her treats?
maye
My rescued Dobie (who was dumped off at an animal shelter, then taken in by a breed rescue place that looked like a Doberman concentration camp) took three weeks to leave the “dog corner” of the bedroom and come into the living room to watch TV with us. And before she would actually come into the living room, she would walk down the hall and peak around the corner, look at us, then go back to her bed in the bedroom. She also could not walk on a leash until she had a few lessons from the dog trainer.
Turned out to be the best dog I ever had. Best temperament, sweetest disposition, low maintenance. Great dog.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
Yes, she definitely needs that routine you seem to be starting. How much can you be around the apartment for the next few weeks? I presume your spring term is over, but will you teaching or away during the day for any prolonged periods over the summer?
(And that’s a gorgeous picture. Such a pretty dog, and such a nice contrast of colours for her coat, which still looks pretty reddish.)
JL
You’ll be surprised how quickly she adapts to the morning walk. She might need some basic training or a harness but that’s to be expected. She’s a sweetie.
SrirachaHotSauce
Two things. One, your patience and caring are going to make a big difference, I think. Stay with it.
Two, I am going to pass your situation on to a friend who is a dog trainer/whisperer by profession, and see what she has to say. She works with troubled dogs and I have seen her work miracles with them. As soon as I have any suggestions from her I will let you know.
Tim Fuller
As leader, I was guessing Tunch or JC.
All my dogs are rescue animals in one form or another, but I tend to get them before they make it to the shelters, or maybe they just find me?
Enjoy.
Death By Mosquito Truck
She’s afraid yer fattening her up so you can eat her. She’s been watching you go to the doggie buffet over and over and now she comes here to your lair and there are no doggies and you’re big and round and happy.
Max
When I was leash training Max, I found that the harness system worked better. It has more stability and control, with less pressure on the neck.
Once he had mastered the objective of walking on a leash, I went to the collar.
Consider yourself lucky that she will take a pill. Max is the master of refusal when it comes to pill taking. The only way I can get him to swallow one is to hide it in a pill sized cube of velveeta.
Dave S.
Consistency is the important thing, as noted above. You’re the pack leader, especially on walks where Tunch cannot demonstrate otherwise.
If there is a dog park near you, definitely get her out there to get socialized with other dogs.
Although she definitely doesn’t sound like a “hard case,” you may want to check out the Dog Whisperer series from National Geographic. We learned a lot about ourselves and our rescue dog by watching those.
Steve
We adopted Ginger, who was in the same shape as Lily. No socialization, it took a little while to coax her out of the shell she’d created to protect herself. She was a Aussie Shep that had been beaten and chained up away from everyone because she “Chased the kids” Yeah, she’s a herding animal, they do that.
Her best friend was the cat once they got to know each other.
Get ready to be the third wheel!
And thanks for adopting.
Steve
Go Wings!
Krista
Sounds like you’re doing great, John. Lots of love, and patience, and a semi-predictable schedule are key. (I wouldn’t go crazy trying to keep the schedule consistent down to the very minute, because then if circumstances keep you from doing X at exactly Y o’ clock, it’ll fuck her right up.) But overall, consistency, love and patience can work miracles. And if she hid underneath your desk, at least she’s hiding near you, so she obviously recognizes you as someone who’s not going to hurt her.
Lilly von Schtupp
Like her name! You are a good Dad. She’s a cutie. It’s just gonna take time. Poor little thing just needs to feel safe and loved. She’s in the right place for that.
Mary
With a dog this shy you really really really should not be worried about dominating her or making sure you’re the alpha. Trust me – she’s figured that much out already.
I recommend looking into T-Touch. http://www.ttouch.com/
I know it sounds like crazy new-wave hippie dippy BS, but the whole idea is that it relaxes the dog and allows her to associate being with you with relaxation and positive experiences.
Ash Can
Not to worry; I’m sure Tunch will have Lily trained in no time. (“Psst. Lily. See that plate of bacon up there on the counter? Here’s what you do…”)
schrodinger's cat
@gex
I think I know what you are talking about, have seen it in passing on the Nickelodeon, but have never really paid any attention to it.
@Laura W
Thanks for the info.
Deborah
Patience and kindness and routine. I’d go for a walk at the same time to the same place(s)–she can get into the joy of new smells when she has a comfortable baseline to compare to.
When our dog was a puppy (she got on well with our two cats–they were appalled, but not do anything appalled) she used to do victory laps when we returned from each walk. We found the house! Look! It’s so exciting! Lily needs time to establish what’s normal and feel she can depend on things in the way a new puppy wouldn’t.
Socializing to other dogs and humans at obedience school, but I wouldn’t push it til she’s better adjusted to you, Tunch, the yard, the nearby walks, etc. I suppose it’s possible to put it off too long, but she needs to get an idea of what’s normal. (Just like babies and toddlers can’t get that tummy foofs are silly until they understand what normal greetings look like.)
StrandedVandal
Ignoring her and letting her come to you is probably the best advice. She’s pretty fragile right now and exhibiting your dominance isn’t necessary or helpful I would think. She’s a pack animal, she’ll want that pack once she settles down a little.
My .02 anyway.
Anton Sirius
Yeah. Prednisone is the devil. I’ve been on that vile shit twice for my Crohn’s… never again.
Dunno what the prescribed doggie dose is, or what she’s getting it for, but I can’t imagine it’s helping her feel too calm or adjusted in her new surroundings. It made me cranky and twitchy and miserable, and those were the milder side effects.
Cat Lady
Lily looks like a cross between confused and skeptical. I also detect a hint of hopefulness. If you’re consistent with your kindness and caring and continue to be dependable and predictable, she’s going to be a lover. She just needs to wait and watch for a while – she’s been in chaos for all of her life. Poor sweet thing.
Deborah
Shorter version: like a small child, I’d imagine Lily needs a nice boring routine. Very dependable, A follows B, if I do C John will do D, no weird surprises. Weird surprises are for when you have your feet steady under you.
Kim
Awwww… she is cute! She looks something like my dog– he is Beagle and Jack Russell. You should put up a pic of him.
Anyway…she has to get used to you and I know personally that you have a very loud voice, so maybe come at her a little more quietly. How far is the dog park from you? I don’t think it’s too far. We could possibly schedule a doggy date for one of the dog parks on a Saturday or Sunday sometime. My dog is right around her same size and color. He is 1-year old and very well socialized with people and other dogs. He loves everything and he LOVES to run.
Did you get dry food and canned food? She may be more tempted to eat the canned food at first.
If you have patience, then it will all work out. She needs a good home and you can provide that! Good for you! :)
Laura W
@Mary: That’s a great suggestion, Mary. (T-Touch). I also highly recommend Bach Rescue Remedy in her water/food. You can get it alcohol-free for pets. I know without doubt it helped keep my cats more calm on our cross-country move.
JenJen
Like many others here, I had a similar experience with my Aussie Shepherd, Rocco, when I first brought him home. He wasn’t as timid as Lily sounds, because he was socialized, but he didn’t want to be with me or around me. He would sit by the door all day, and when we were in the yard, he’d just sit by the gate. He always wanted to go home, I think. It wasn’t until maybe a month later that it all clicked for him and he realized he was home. Now I can’t get the dog away from me. He is absolutely the most cuddly, lovable, affectionate dog I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.
I completely agree with what guster wrote, above, by the way.
Out of curiosity, what are you feeding her?
Sweet Lily!! She’s going to be just fine.
Kim
Awwww… she is cute! She looks something like my dog– he is Beagle and Jack Russell. You should put up a pic of him.
Anyway…she has to get used to you and I know personally that you have a very loud voice, so maybe come at her a little more quietly. How far is the dog park from you? I don’t think it’s too far. We could possibly schedule a doggy date for one of the dog parks on a Saturday or Sunday sometime. My dog is right around her same size and color. He is 1-year old and very well socialized with people and other dogs. He loves everything and he LOVES to run.
Did you get dry food and canned food? She may be more tempted to eat the canned food at first.
If you have patience, then it will all work out. She needs a good home and you can provide that! Good for you! :)
jp
Poor little sweetie. Her eyes look so haunted. But it sounds like you are doing wonderfully.
JoyceH
John, how long was Lily at the kennel and what was her life before that? My first thought was that an hour long walk might be a bit strenuous for a dog that hasn’t been getting much exercise. They need to build up stamina and muscle just like we do.
Farley
Bring a baggie of treats (or one of those little clip-on treat holders) with you while walking her on a leash. When she does exactly what you want her to do while walking on a leash (walking calmly beside you, not freaking out or afraid), immediately give her a treat.
And talk to a good trainer about confidence-building. And also give her time: 6-12 months of settling in is reasonable.
Mary
One more thing about socialization – If you have a friend or family member with a reasonable playful and well behaved dog, definitely have them spend some time together. Lily is definitely not ready for a dog park or anything similar, but spending time with one or two well socialized dogs can do wonders in terms of teaching a dog how to be a dog. I’ve fostered a lot of shelter dogs and they all picked up their behavior cues from my own dog (who is also a rescue, but has always been the exact opposite of shy or anxious).
Lesley
When I rescued Lupe she had no idea what a toy was. Now she’s toy obsessed. Dogs learn quickly. Lilly’s timidity is a reaction to her (former) environment. Most dogs will come out of their shell, though it may be slow and she may have things that scare her for a while. We’ve had Lupe for 4 years. Last year she finally let us rub her belly (we call it the fat bucket). Now she will lie for hours if you let her, begging to be scratched. They come around.
Maude
@Ash Can:
Yup. The two of them together are going to tag team John.
Lily will eat when she’s hungry. It has to be comforting to have Tunch there. A pal for life.
OT Im going to take out The Westler next week at the library. I have to put codecs on the laptop Linux partition and use broadband at the lib.
Didn’t someone or someones recommend it here?
schrodinger's cat
Yes, why is she on it? It is a rather strong steroid, with nasty side effects used in chemotherapy cocktails for lymphomas among other things. Hopefully she won’t have to be on it for a long time.
linda
i’m sure she just needs a few days to settle in; and once she does, you’re going to have one of the most loyal poochies evah…
tunch on the other hand…
besides, there’s too many people here rooting for her.
Kim
I tried to post once already, but it did not go through.
Anyway..my dog is Jack Russell and Beagle and he looks a good bit like Lily (didn’t she go by another name before?)
Butchy is very well socialized with people and other dogs. We should schedule a doggy park date on a Sat or Sun sometime. Butchy will get her to run and play! Maybe we should wait a few weeks though before we do this.
Also, you should post a pic of Butchy on here.
Doug
I second (or third) the careful with the Prednisone sentiments. For one of our dogs, it has been helpful in relieving allergy symptoms in the late summer. However, for another of our dogs, I think our vet was a little too free with the stuff, and we’re reasonably sure it damaged her pancreas leading to her diabetes.
BSR
There is lots of good advise here. I wouldn’t worry too much about Alpha issues with this dog, I would worry more about rewarding and encouraging timid/fearful behavior patterns by mistake.
David
First thing is to get Lily some pupils for her eyeballs!
Woody
DO you have a Costco near at hand?
They stock bags of chicken-breast jerky which my dogs ADORE, and with pieces of which I train my pack to my will.
Food treats are the best.
And paying lots of attention, letting her know, with extravagant praise, when she does good. Lot’s of “Good ‘Sit!’ What a GOOD ‘Sit’ (or “down,” or ‘come.’)!” Tone of voice is important. Also exuding alpha confidence is a god thing…
It sounds like Lily’s house-broken. Most dogs won’t poop where they sleep, so I’d be surprised if she took a dump in her crate.
Kitty poop is like candy for dogs. She’ll go after cat poops, if she can, so keep the cat-box out of the way.
Good luck with her. She looks like a total sweetie!
Bob In Pacifica
I have no real advice in matters like these, but those who counsel benign neglect (as opposed to overly attentive behavior) and loving when she’s open to it seems to me to be the way to go. I look at the pictures of her and start petting my couch. Creatures that need love, and who bring out that love in us, are the greatest blessing of life. That’s why we’re here. That’s what we’re made for.
Mousebumples
Speaking as a pharmacist, prednisone is a helpful drug (helps with swelling, itching, allergic reactions, etc.) for certain short-term situations, but it can cause some side effects that have been alluded to above. (jitteriness, trouble sleeping, and weight gain – but the last one is more associated with long-term, higher-dose use)
It can be used for any number of other conditions, as mentioned above, as it helps to slow down/mute a patient’s immune response to allow the body to heal faster. I wouldn’t think that Lily would be on the prednisone that long – more likely as a result of something the vet found in her workup.
On the topic of what else you can do, I don’t know what kind of leash you bought, John, but my dogs always liked the retractable leashes because it gave them more flexibility over where they could go while we were walking. Of course, if I wasn’t careful, they’d tie knots around me, but that might be worth considering.
Karen
We adopted a 9 month old German Shepherd a little over 4 years ago. She had been beaten, her ears & tail used against her (she was terrified if either were touched), was abandoned, she’d had no medical attention at all & was never socialized. Mentally, the worker at the “farm” she was rescued by, told us she was close to being “unsalvageable”.
Now, she’s a happy girl who wants the “ear scrub” regularly, who flops over to her back for a belly rub, who knows how to be a normal dog & can go to see her vet without her muzzle. She’ll never trust people she doesn’t know & there are some people who she just won’t warm up to. I would never take her to PetsMart unmuzzled, because she gets nervous around a lot of strangers & could bite. But she does have “people friends” who she loves to see & get petted by.
It took a lot of love, patience & firm dicipline to get her where she is now. Once Lilly gets more secure with you, take her shopping. Or to a dog park. Or a kids park. The more she gets out & experiences things, the better off she’ll be. It sounds like you’ve started out well.
JenJen
@schrodinger’s cat; et al: Prednisone saved my little Strider’s life last summer, when he came down with the most horrible illness, I was sure he would die. After a terrifying week of diagnosing and coming up with nothing, the vet and I researched together and finally realized he had aseptic meningitis! There is only one thing canine meningitis responds to: prednisone. And not a very large dose, either, I think 20 mg a day for two weeks, and then we slowly tapered down the dose.
Unfortunately, it is an autoimmune condition he’ll have for the rest of his life, so when he suffers recurrences, he goes right back on the prednisone. Look, I became the prednisone research queen when I realized my little Stridee would be on it for a long time. It doesn’t have the same side effects on dogs that it does people; small doses are considered to be one of the safest and most effective canine medications. When they first go on it, they drink water like they’re a camel, which makes them pee a lot, and you might see a slight weight gain. That’s it, in my experience with little Stride, anyway.
So everyone, please don’t get John upset about having Lily on the juice! It’s not a big deal.
donnah
You are wonderful for adopting Lily. Keep up the patient, consistent care and she should come around.
Our dogs and cats have all been shelter rescues. While each has had his or her set of quirks, they have all settled into our family structure with minimal upheaval.
Friends of ours adopted a severely abused Irish Setter years ago. She was afraid of shadows and noise and it took quite a while for her to get used to a normal life. But she absolutely adored my friend. When he told her to “Sit”, she couldn’t bear to sit in front of him; she would scoot over to his side, crane her neck up along his leg, and gaze adoringly at him. If he was anywhere around, she was right there with him.
Good luck with Lily. She is a beautiful dog. Just love, love, love her!
Johnny B. Guud
I thought you were doing a Senator Grassley imitation…
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Mary:
This cannot be emphasized enough. I know some trainers have what they call “therapy” dogs to help socialize and calm other dogs.
I also second the harness idea; we used an Easy Walk harness on Gregor, which helped a lot.
Beyond that, it’s just a matter of time and consistency. You should see her start to open up in a week or so.
The Other Steve
Completely normal. Our Roxie dog will go for a day or two herself not eating if she isn’t feeling well or is anxious.
Just be patient. As others suggested keep Tunch away from her for a while until she gets more comfortable.
The Other Steve
As far as socializing her… wait until she’s more comfortable around you… but talk to a dog trainer. You want to have someone who understands and knows what to do.
We have a wonderful trainer available here at our nearby pet store. They do dog training classes and such at nights and on weekends in their kennel exercise area.
Damned at Random
I gave my stray a can of food after our walks and let her free feed on kibble. She LOVED can-a-food. I tried to make the best thing happen when we’d done our time togeather.
Also, try some varied foods to figure out her favorite treats – cheese cubes, peanut butter, green beans. cantelope. If you can figure out what really rings her bell, training will be much easier for you and fun for her. And definitely use a clicker.
Another thing – with my stray, our walks were about her exploring her neighborhood, not me getting my cardio. If she wanted to sniff, we’d stop to sniff. Be careful about kids until you know how she reacts to them- my guess is she will find them too boisterous at first. so warn them to approach her slowly and watch for any fear response. treat her if she lets them into her comfort zone. As she gets more comfortable, let the kids give her the treat – they love that and the dog learns that kids a good things. Given her history, that will take a while, but as long as you are out with her , kids will want to pet her and warning them away will get to be a nuisance. (when I was a kid, dogs ran free around the neighborhood and we learned early to read their body language. These days, kids need a friendly dogwalker to educate them for their own safety. Let them know her history, teach them to ask to approach her and instruct them when she shows stress – someday a fearful or hostile stray will show up and that sort of instruction can prevent a bite.)
John Cole
Re: prednisone, I forget what it is for, (I was getting machine gunned with info at the vet), but we are only taking it for a few days. Pill eveyr twelve hours for two days, then one a day for two days, then one every other day twice. The cephalexin until it is gone. She had fleas and a pretty bad rash on her back, and she was apparently scrathcing her armpits and licking them so she had allergies to something. I imagine it is for that.
re: Harness. Already using one. Many of you noted that collars are bad for small dogs.
The Saff
What a beautiful girl! Sounds like she just needs lots of TLC and some time. I’m so glad you rescued her, John. And she looks like a Lily.
Looking forward to many more posts and pictures of her new (good!) life.
GeneJockey
I agree with those who said it’s better to ignore her than to dote on her. Paradoxically, acting as if there’s nothing to be afraid of and letting her come to you will calm her down faster – the Alpha (which should be you) is calm, so things are okay. Dogs hate uncertainty.
WRT the leash, once she realizes that the leash is the key to going out into the world of sights and smells beyond the yard, and that it’s her connection with the Alpha when on walks, she’ll love it. You should probably use it to take her out to the yard, on a regular schedule, for bio breaks, rather than just letting her out, at first.
Get a good dog book. We used “Uncle Matty” and “The Monks of New Skete”, but I gather that this Milan guy is all the rage nowadays. It’s all the same basic stuff.
Oh, yeah – and subscribe to at least one newspaper. San Francisco Chronicle bags, for example, make excellent scoops. They’re more use than the paper itself.
Seth
Once she is eating, hand feeding is a great way to go to build your relationship. Depending on how timid, you may have to hold the food out, and look away so you only see her in your peripheral vision. That’s very non-threatening body language.
Also, I second the “select a few well socialized dogs” suggestion.
Stacy
I second the T-Touch recommendation by Mary, my mother-in-law (who is a dog trainer) has started using it for some of her clients.
Don’t worry too much if she doesn’t eat for a bit, dogs can actually go for a while without food (wolves often only eat every few days or so, when they can find a kill). My dog didn’t eat (or, as a result, poo) for a few days after we adopted her. She might start taking to the treats and bones after she feels she can relax. A regular routine will help her feel more at ease.
Don’t throw her in the dog park yet. Like suggested above, find a few friends with dogs and set up some meetings, and go into it slowly, just to make sure she’s okay with other dogs. And in the far future, if you do decide to try that route, I’d go up to the dog park and walk the outside of the perimeter for the first few times you go to it and leave without going in, just to make sure she’s comfortable with it. You always want to make sure you end experiences on a good note for her, even if it’s just baby steps and you don’t quite accomplish the main goal, because the bad experiences tend to have lasting effects and can undo a lot of work.
Something you can try with getting her to walk before entering into hardcore training is to walk her in circles or zigzags. Start walking, get her to follow you by getting her to come or pulling the leash, and once she starts to get in front of you, abruptly turn in the opposite direction and walk that way, pulling her with you. Keep moving, and repeat every time she starts to go in front. It looks silly, but it’s a start in getting her to understand that you are leading her on the walk and that she has to look to you for cues on where to go.
Irony Abounds
She wears shoes?
maye
nothing wrong with short term prednisone for dogs. probably prescribed for her rash.
Louise
Sounds like you’re the perfect person to have adopted Lily. She’s very lucky.
My rescue dog, Mackenzie, didn’t eat for two days after I brought her home and, as I’ve said before, didn’t bark for three months. Patience, obviously, is the key. Also, guster‘s advice is good.
I’m curious (and please don’t answer if you don’t want to) — why do you say you walk like Lurch?
Shinobi
One advantage to her not knowing how to behave on the leash is that you get to shape her behavior from the word go! I’m sure she’ll learn soon enough, just give her some time. The transition from a shelter life to home life is pretty crazy and it will probably take a little while just for her to de stress.
While she’s anxious you’ll have to be her rock. And soon enough she’ll be protecting you from big scary cats.
I also recommend string cheese as a treat. We had to try a bunch of stuff with my dog to se ewhat he liked. Freeze dried liver, no (anybody want a big box?) anything dairy, YES.
Joe
Someone once told me that the animals/pets that you have in your life will greet you when you are at the gates to Heaven. If you were mean, they chase you away. If you were nice, they welcome you and escort you in. You will have no problems.
Trinity
She is just lovely John! Patience is the key. And considering how you put up with us, I imagine you will be just fine.
PurpleGirl
Stacy said: Something you can try with getting her to walk before entering into hardcore training is to walk her in circles or zigzags. Start walking, get her to follow you by getting her to come or pulling the leash, and once she starts to get in front of you, abruptly turn in the opposite direction and walk that way, pulling her with you. Keep moving, and repeat every time she starts to go in front. It looks silly, but it’s a start in getting her to understand that you are leading her on the walk and that she has to look to you for cues on where to go.
Yes! A friend who had a full-sized Doberman Pinscher used this method to train me about how to walk with Hugo (the DP). Hugo would walk along side me and follow where my legs went. It was great because people would see us on the street and see The BIG DP along side me and just part for us. I’d hear comments of “see that dog, it’s big but… she controls it!” (Hugo was a marshmellow with with those humans he considered “his”. Luckily he considered me one of his humans.)
Otherwise John, it sounds like you’ve got a handle on how to handle Lily. Her color is gorgeous.
Pete Butler
@Mousebumples: A dog trainer friend of mine loathes retractable leashes. If I remember correctly, her beef was they exert a small but continuous pressure on the dog’s collar that the dog learns to ignore, which inhibits the dog learning proper leash etiquette.
She knew what she was talking about in general, so I’m inclined to trust her judgment.
The Saff
All of you folks who rescue dogs and cats are heroes.
Roq
Sorry I haven’t read above comments. I may be repetitious.
If she took her medicine, had no accidents, and was generally well behaved, that’s a good temperament sign. What it means is that she’s just scared, not traumatized and/or damaged in some way.
If I were you, I would take her erratic behavior on a leash as a pretty direct sign about what you have to do. She needs structure. As much as you can, normalize your schedule. Try to feed her at the same time every day, take her for walks on the same route, so on and so forth. I think she’ll settle in nicely.
harlana pepper
Bless her lil heart. Just look at that face! Of course, she will need time to acclimate. My best advice is to watch *The Dog Whisperer*. I’m not a dog owner now, but back in the day I adopted a traumatized pup who was brought into triage at the mental health center where I worked at the time. She had been picked up by a truck driver and with her was this very frightened little black spaniel mix whom nobody knew what to do with.
I remember when I got him home he was so terrified, I had to pry him out from underneath the car seat and of course, as you did, give him a bath first thing. He developed a serious “chewing on bottom of doors” problem when I and my boyfriend were at work, and which I could never rectify. We’re talking about something along the lines of trying to chew his way to China. Looking back, I realize this was separation anxiety. After watching a lot of Cesar, I understand now that some of the things I did wrong in dealing with his issues were directly related to my feeling bad about his past. His show has taught me that, while it is natural to feel sorry for the dog’s past, sometimes that type of “energy” can interfere with it’s development into a well-balanced doggie.
I look forward to updates!!
Tim Fuller
T-Touch video does look to me like a hippie dippie new age expression of PETTING YOUR FREAKING DOG. This obviously appeals to some folks who might never had thought of scratching, rubbing and tenderly stroking their dog’s ear or gently playing with their dog’s toes, ankles and knees.
My dogs will get ionized and filtered drinking water, infused with Bach Rescue Remedy (as well as every other doggie based holistic hoohah), just as soon as the city starts delivering it to the toilet bowl they’re so fond of frequenting.
Loving up on Lily is what you need to be doing. That is why she is at your house right now and we both know it. Don’t think she will take that long to figure it out as well.
Enjoy.
lilysmom
John, Lily was so lucky to find you. You have a kind heart and she knows that. She just needs a while to learn to believe in what she thinks she sees. Her past has been pretty awful. You guys will get there.
bago
Prednisone is pretty much your go-to steroid/antihistamine. Still alive today because of that stuff.
Punchy
yer dog walking all crazy in front of you, stopping, circling, etc. is all normal. Dogs will go wherever the damn hell they please, usually where it’s the dirtiest and smelliest. Just wait until they roll around in said filth!
Taking my dog(s) to a lake on Saturday to find out if they can swim. Ought to be interesting.
Mary
@Joe:
I really hope that the hamsters I neglected as a small child won’t hold it against me.
Krista
You mentioned that you introduced her to Samantha yesterday — she’d probably be a good dog for Lily to be around, where she’s small and non-threatening, but obviously very happy.
Anne
@Pete Butler: I’ve heard that, too. It also seems to me that having more freedom on a lead might be confusing to a dog who’s just learning to walk with a leash. Consistency is key with dogs anyway, but I would think especially so in Lily’s case.
You’re good people, John. She’ll learn that before long. Just give her some nice, quiet structure and let her sort things out in her own time, and she’ll come around.
Throwin Stones
Good job John. You’ll do fine.
@Woody: I’ve always said our dogs (Irish Setter in particular) think the cats are candy factories.
The Saff
Cats truly are the most persistent creatures on the planet.
geg6
Sounds like lack of socialization to me. Of my John’s two rescue dogs, Otis is the one who had the most difficulty (and still does) with figuring out how to act like a dog. As someone else mentioned above, Otis cannot be the recipient of too much unsought attention. If you do, he’ll pee. If you wait for him to come to you, everything is fine and dandy. Henry, OTOH, is beyond any trauma he may have experienced. Henry is calm, cool, and collected most of the time. He only acts up when he’s not getting enough attention and his acting up is in the form of acting as if you don’t exist or, if John is out of town on business too long, digging a hole in the drywall in the bedroom.
Speaking of Henry, John and I have decided that should the Pens have any need for an extra goalie, Henry is their man. He couldn’t get enough of the hockey game last night and kept running around and then sliding across the wood floor to land in front of the couch and us, all stretched to his full length. You really haven’t lived until you’ve seen a 10-year-old, 150 pound dog watching hockey and imitating Fleury during the breaks. He had us laughing all night.
Mary
@Pete Butler:
Oh my goodness, yes! Please avoid the retractable leash. Even if you’re dog is friendly and well behaved, there are many that are not and there are many dangerous situations that she can get into if given 20 feet of retractable freedom.
Nick
Lay down on your back in the dog surrender position next to her and see what she does. Odds are she’ll feel safe enough to come lick your face in a mildly confused and concerned way.
It breaks my heart to see an abused animal.
David Hunt
I have no idea if JC’s reading this far down, but I’m going to say something mind-numbingly obvious: call her by name a lot.
Dog Is My Copilot
You have a heart of gold for adopting Lily and giving her a Forever Home. My husband and I have three rescued dogs (two goldens and one Pomeranian). The Pom we’ve had about 1-1/2 years and they think she is a puppy mill survivor. A volunteer at Old Dog Haven plucked her from a shelter (where she was found with a severe ringworm infection and a herniated uterus). She only had three teeth left. ODH got her back on the path to good health. When we adopted her (her name is Millie), she was extremely timid and withdrawn. Every time we so much as looked at her, you could see her go into a sort of anxious state like she just KNEW we were going to do something bad to her. She would not allow herself to even relax – she looked exhausted. The thing that helped her the most was just leaving her be for awhile and letting her be a dog, strange as that sounds. The other dogs helped her tremendously, as well. She was able to observe them coming to us for attention and saw that we meant them no harm. Millie was very erratic on walks when we first starting taking her on jaunts with the other dogs. Now, she does great – they all have their spot in the lineup (the two goldens beside me and Millie follows behind). It’s just the consistency that dogs need. Daily walks are a very good thing. BTW, we’ve gotten a lot of good tips from watching “The Dog Whisperer.” Good luck with Lily – she looks like a sweet dog.
harlana pepper
Can’t wait for an “ears up” pic as I can see she is going to have really cute partially erect, partially “flap-over” ears when she begins to feel secure.
cindy
anxiety was not a problem with either of my 2 dog rescues, but skin irritation was in both cases. my current dog gets prednisone periodically for allergies – small doses, tapered off. it really does help. and it should help with her appetite, once she gets settled in. and the bach rescue remedy should help ease the anxiety. my vet said it’s ok to give with the other medications, but you should check with yours.
for walks, a “gentle leader” headcollar works well for me. it works kind of like a bridle for a horse – where the head goes, the body follows. it is not a muzzle, although people always ask…. my dog is medium sized, but strong, and a harness gives her, not me, control of the center of gravity.
it’s probably not a good idea to let the cat have too many dog treats – i used to break off the corner of a “bone” before giving it to the dog and give the small piece to the cat (he loved them), and the vet thinks it may have contributed to chronic urinary problems that he had for years.
once she can have a bath, there’s a prescription (expensive) shampoo called “malaseb,” once the skin conditions ease up, buddy wash and buddy rinse by cloud star are gentle and effective and smell really good.
i agree with everyone who’s mentioned cesar millan’s show; lots of times what we think will ease a problem actually reinforces it. your shelter should be able to recommend a good trainer.
sounds like you’re doing fine, give her a little time to come out of her shell.
gex
@Mary: Better to be chased away from the pearly gates by hamsters and not dobermans. I think you can deke ’em out and make it through anyhow.
Alex
I agree with the other commenters, it does sound like she will come around, and congrats/kudos on getting her.
I adopted a similarly traumatized dog, but he’d responded by developing the opposite problem — serious, serious separation anxiety. Followed me from room to room, went nuts when I left, even if I left him with someone he knew, couldn’t crate him (even if I remained in the room) without him going crazy — jumping up and down and screaming enough so that the crate would be moved from one end of the bedroom to the other within minutes, peeing in it (very bad sign) and also trying to chew his way out. While I don’t want to diminish your situation, it does sound better than the alternative.
Also, if she doesn’t like treats (mine didn’t) try cheese. String cheese worked great, in my experience, tho some dogs have stomach issues with it.
The Moar You Know
@The Saff: My cat has figured out a new way to annoy me at 4:30 in the morning, when she feels it is time for me to wake up; she climbs on my side (I’m a side-sleeper) and walks up to my head, and meows directly in my ear.
I lie there, ignoring her, and she then turns around and sits on my head.
Fucking cats.
jayackroyd
My beloved Gracie was very nervous for the first month or two. Not as bad as this, but do keep in mind that nervous dogs often chew on things. I lost a not yet worn once pair of suit pants to not realizing this.
Patience, which is what you seem to be showing, is really what it takes.
freelancer
Second what Tim Fuller said,
especially considering that Ms. Tellington’s BIO begins as such.
There’s sure to be some rigorous science and efficacy to her methods. I’m not saying petting your pet doesn’t have a measurable effect, but when you write about the spirituality of your animal, “as a reflection of the Divine Whole”, is empirical data confirming your hypothesis really what you are after?
And as far as the doggy woo-woo supplements to treat a frightened, abused dog with Star of Bethlehem to neutralize the effect of shock or trauma, I would be VERY, VERY careful what you are giving your pets, as “natural” supplements like this are often unregulated, inconsistent, and can contain anything from sawdust, to arsenic. You may just end up poisoning yourself or your pets with these “natural” products.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@Kim:
Everyone here who is surprised, raise your hands . . . anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
@Death By Mosquito Truck:
You sir, win the Internets for today.
John, I’d find a reputable trainer or obedience school in your area and sign up for classes once Lily has had a chance to acclimate to her new situation. It will be good socialization for her, good training for you, and a good bonding experience for you both.
Loneoak
The thing that seems most likely to trip up you and Lily is to make the mistake of rewarding her fear/timidity. As primates, we are used to comforting each other if we are afraid—speaking in higher tones, touching, etc. For a dog, these are rewards, or at the very least confirmations. (I know someone who cemented his dog’s fear of lightening by comforting him during thunderstorms.) If she is cowering, ignore her and do your normal routine and just let her observe. As soon as she comes out of her shell a little bit then you can reward/confirm her. You can’t force her to not be timid, but you can make her happy when she decides not to be. Be especially generous when she both happy and attentive to you. This is how you can best establish yourself as the household alpha, not through the forms of dominance we monkeys prefer.
NormInCO
When I got my VERY shy Border Collie, I picked up a book called “Help for your Shy Dog”, by Deborah Wood. The first thing I got from the book was that Biscuit wasn’t doing too badly–the stories of some dogs in that book will bring tears to your eyes.
When I’d take her to the dog park, two or three people would scare her, so I’d calm her down, and give the scary person a dog treat to give her. It worked very well for socializing her, but now instead of thinking of the dog park as “the place I go to run around off leash and play with other dogs”, it’s “the place where I go for people to pet me”.
Best of luck with Lily!
harlana pepper
@jayackroyd: I second that. One of the first things you need to do is hide your shoes! :)
Michael Carpet
Pete, our rescue dog, has benefited from Cesar Milan’s methods, of course, adapted somewhat to Pete’s ways. It is important to let Lily be for a while — ignoring her sounds mean, but she is nervous in a new place, so give her time. I would walk her with a short leash for a while, so she gets used to being with you. Stop and let her sniff, then back to work. Pete gets walked twice a day, and fed in the evening so he sleeps soundly in his crate. Milan recommends that you tell people meeting her “no talk, no touch, no eye contact.” That is good advice for anyone, especially children, meeting a new dog. Consistency, patience, discipline and affection usually does the trick. Pete (a 17 pound mutt) is a little Napoleon, and wants to challenge dogs when on the leash. Off the leash he is not so brave, and gets along fine. I’m working on that. Anyone have ideas?
Leslie
I know socializing with other dogs has been mentioned. When I look at shelter listings for dogs like Lily, they usually recommend that they be placed in a home where there is already a friendly, well-adjusted dog.
So, I know this wasn’t really on your agenda, but you might consider getting a second rescue dog, maybe an older dog that’s been displaced by the economy or having an owner pass away, etc. Because Lily really does need another dog to teach her how to be one.
Good luck, and bless you for taking her.
Jimbo
Hang in there JC, like the others have said, this is a fairly normal part of the process. We adopted a beat down 8 y/o Golden and it took him about 2-3 weeks to figure out we weren’t going to hit him and he started to come out of his shell finally.
Lily is beautiful and yeah I’ll say it, damn lucky to have you as an owner…
Jimbo
@Anton Sirius: Amen! I’ve had to take it a few times for my UC. It sucks for humans and animals, and when Lily comes off of it, that will help too.
Bad Horse's Filly
@Anton Sirius: yeah, it made my Great Dane snappy and irritable. She snapped at anything and everyone while on it (cats, people, duck). I took her off it almost immediately. So keep an eye on that.
Bad Horse's Filly
@Laura W: I second this suggestion. It works miracles and I’ve used it in every situation, rescue, accidents and trauma of any kind and it really calms everyone down.
CT Voter
She looks intelligent, and very reserved. Which seems reasonable. My dog wasn’t a rescue dot–he was a stray that showed up out of nowhere, in the middle of rural Mississippi. To this day, I don’t know how he survived on his own, but he had fleas, ticks, and two kinds of mange, and looked twice as old as he actually was. He was very reserved around me, and every time I tried to pet him, he’d sort of flinch. Until Erin, the neighbor’s dog, figured out there was a new dog in the ‘hood, and started hanging out at my house. Erin really liked me. Vic (my dog) was clearly on the fence. But he watched her, and if she started jumping around and playing with me, he’d jump around her. But in that slow process, he started to warm up to me.
It took about a month before he seemed pleased to see me, rather than just resigned to me talking to him. (Which I did a lot of).
Now? He’s fine. Aging, getting slower, grayer, deafer and more blind, but fine. And has a lovely and wonderful personality. He also has adjusted to living inside, with a cat bigger than he.
Laura W
@Bad Horse’s Filly: I already knew that about you, BHF.
;-)
Notorious P.A.T.
It sounds like when my mom brought her puppy home. She seemed like she wanted to get away from mom, then realized she would be alone if she did that and came creeping back.
tess
The semi-ignore/don’t-dote method also works with small children. Your lack of focus on them makes you more interesting, especially if they are used to being given lots of attention, and it gives them time to size you up for themselves.
That when out of her crate, Lily chooses to be close to you, is a good sign that she senses you are trustworthy and will protect her. So it sounds like it is all going well.
Lily is just a lovely, perfect name for her–something about her delicate little face. (Though perhaps that bodes poorly for my latest niece, born in April, who is also called Lily. :-)
You’re good people, John.
Common Sense
I saw a few others recommend it, and I concur that taking her to the dog park might be a great way to help Lily get comfortable with her new family and surroundings. Just show her physical affection all the time and help her understand that contact isn’t to be feared. Some creatures are just skittish around strangers of course, and Lily may be one. But you can try to acclimate her to new people in a friendly place like a dog park first, where she will be pet and loved by a thousand new hands.
Congratulations John — this is no easy step for a loner. I’ve always been a dog guy, but hadn’t owned one since my high school pet passed a decade ago. I didn’t want to deal with the responsibility and felt focusing on myself was a bigger priority. Then I found Kona. She is (I think) a boxer/pit mix, a bit on the small side (about 40 lbs). I found her at approx 3 months old on the side of a freeway, hobbling across a feeder. I stopped traffic to pick her up. She was a trembling, terrified mess, whimpering uncontrollably. At first she wanted nothing to do with me, though she did submit to a bath willingly if sullenly. All day she would just quiver in the corner and whine or duck when I tried to pet her.
I took her to the vet and got her shots, but due to the cost was unable to test her for something I had come to suspect: Kona was deaf. She hears nothing, which of course changed everything about her training routine. And in the end Kona has turned out to be the sweetest creature I have ever known. I have never seen her snarl, much less bite anything. She is almost excessively submissive; rolling over on her back, paws up in supplication to 5 lb chihuahuas. This trait still shows up in her disturbing tendency to duck her head when I try to pet it, which makes it look like I beat her or something.
Other commitments mean I have to wrap this up short, but I just wanted to congratulate you on a challenging and incredibly rewarding endeavor. Good luck.
zirconium
She’s cute.
As for whether she has done #2: That’s too much information.
She’ll come around. Give her time.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@tess:
There are lots of dog training methods that work with small children – though sadly, shock collars are still frowned upon.
Brachiator
Naw. You appear to be doing really well. It’s cool to get a sense of your patience and and kindheartedness in making sure that Lily feels comfortable in her new surroundings.
I agree with other posters who think that a full on dog park might be too much, while being introduced to one or two other well-behaved dogs might help with socializing.
OT: Hmm. I’m noticing that Ballon Juice and IE8 do not always play well together. Something about switching to “compatibility mode.”
Krista
I have to say that hearing everybody else’s tales of rescue dogs is very bittersweet. It’s so nice to hear about neglected doggies finding kind, loving forever homes.
But it’s so awful to hear about the fact that people neglect and mistreat doggies in the first place. It’s not just the isolated case of a few people — there are SO many neglected and abused dogs and cats out there. I just do not understand, nor will I ever understand, how anybody could abuse an innocent creature who only wants to be loved and cared for.
I know there are a lot of sickos in the world, who abuse the helpless: kids, dogs, cats, the elderly, what-have-you, but I will never, ever, ever understand that mindset, and it will never cease to make me feel physically ill if I think about it too much.
Mary
@tripletee (formerly tBone):
Sadly, so is crating.
On the whole “reinforcing fear” business: there’s a lot of new research out there debunking the idea that you can reinforce fear by petting your dog. Patricia McConnell has been writing about fear in dogs recently on her blog – it’s fascinating stuff (if you’re a dog geek, like me).
http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/you-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms/
I know people swear by Cesar Milan and the Monks of New Skete, and both definitely have their good points, but a lot of their methods and philosophies are outdated.
Bad Horse's Filly
@Loneoak: @NormInCO:
Slow day at work, so I’ve been reading everyone’s stories. I love both these suggestions and will tuck them away for my next rescue.
and Laura W. probably wouldn’t surprise you to know I know Tarot and Jin Shin and Reiki among other things, either, huh?
And John if you’re reading down this far, what you’re doing is great and I think you’ve got a handle on it.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@Mary:
Not really – a playpen or crib is just a crate without a roof.
Seanly
It sounds like she needs socialization and training classes. Actually, the training classes are more for the people than the dogs.
If there is a dog park near you, go there and look for a group of folks hanging out. Introduce Lily to them and let them know she is a rescue and very nervous. Several of them will likely have a friendly dog and you can work on getting Lily socialized. If you see someone with a friendly dog, don’t be shy to ask if your girl can meet their dog.
For instance, my wife & I have two big but sweet dogs. They can both be very aggressive with the sniffing, so if someone warned us about their dog being nervous, we’d hold one back.
Unfortunately, the only way to socialize a dog is to put them in situations with other dogs. Lily will likely be very submissive – rolling over & exposing her belly or even peeing
No dog park near you? There is usually some place that would be an informal dog park.
Also, unless she is underweight, consider only giving 1/2 or 2/3 of what the food packet says.
Mary
@tripletee (formerly tBone):
Yeah, but you can’t leave ’em there when you run out to the store. At least not LEGALLY.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@Mary:
Really? Oops, gotta go. I, uh, forgot something on the stove at home.
lilysmom
@Krista:
Yes, yes, yes. I stopped working in physical therapy for that reason. After ten years, I couldn’t take it any more. Gross profits over quality of care.
I have tremendous admiration for people who do take care of the vulnerable ones, both people and animals. This is a shout out to you, MichaelD.
wrb
We adopted a dog from the shelter who looked a lot like her and was terrified by all men, including me… until she had a good drug experience.
I brought her home from being spayed still woozy and held her and petted her until she fell asleep.
Afterward she took to launching herself at me when she spotted me, in order to deliver kisses.
It was like she’d liked my aura or something.
Elie
John:
It is wonderful that Lily has you in her life. My heart goes out to her and to you (ya big lug) for lagging her in.
asiangrrlMN
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Hey! I read Tarot cards and runes, and I scry. Neat.
@John Cole, I am not a dog person, but I do think the benign neglect/positive reinforcement for affection path is the way to go. Along with routine. Lily looks like she really wants to love and be loved. Thank you for taking her in, and good luck.
The Saff
@The Moar You Know:
My tortoiseshell cat meows loudly at me when she thinks it’s time for me to get up. And when I don’t, she jumps off the bed and starts gnawing on the coax cable, phone wire, or electrical cord. Of course, I get up — she has me trained properly.
Conversely, my white/orange big guy sits quietly for a minute and then gently touches my chin with his paw while purring loudly. If that doesn’t work, he licks my forehead.
Hannah
John: Dogs sleeping in a crate is a good thing… as explained to us when we got our dog as a puppy, dogs historically lived in caves and so feel safe in a crate. Our dog sleeps in her crate every night, willingly goes into it when told and will even go in there when she’s really tired. She’s got her “blankie” for comfort and we loosely cover the crate with a large towel. So no worries that Lily wants to sleep there; it’s her safe place. Also put Lily in her crate when you travel by car, it’s safer for them, and if they’re crate trained from the start they won’t mind it.
I don’t have much experience with abused dogs, but we once adopted a cat who had been abandoned and when you reached out to pet him he would shrink back as though he had been hit. He wouldn’t sit on our laps, it took years before he was OK with that and finally he decided we were fine for that purpose and then we couldn’t get him off of us! So give Lily some time.
My dog and I are taking an obedience/agility class and there a dog in class who was rescued and is very skittish around everything. The teacher told the owner that he should be kind to the dog but not “baby” her. Maybe that’s the best advice. I would search out a good dog obedience class in your area, you and Lily will both benefit.
Meanwhile, I hope Tunch will be kind and not too abusive towards Lily.
jl
Tunch will rule. With an iron fist (paw). Obviously.
LV-426
@Mary:
I don’t know about the monks but what I like about Ceasar is that his intent is to teach people how to be a dog owner. How to treat them like dogs and not like little people friends for shut ins. I don’t recommend copying all his techniques but you can learn a lot from watching his show. He taught me how to walk my dog. You should see the looks I get when walking my 60lb Pit while holding the leash with my pinkie finger.
BTW if Tunch is anything like my Felix, Tunch will start to enjoy the dogs company over yours. I’m not kidding, whenever I let the cat in he runs over to the dog and does his rubbing on furniture while purring thing. I’m like ‘hey how about some love for the doorman over here’ but nope none for me. Good thing I have two cats. At least Cali likes me.
Trollhattan
@loneoak #98
Yes, this is a little understood but very important point–trying to change a fear trigger to “nothing to see here, business as usual” is challenging, and inadvertently reinforcing the fear response is what we reflexively do instead. (It’s hard not to intervene when your dog is destroying the house in a panic during a thunderstorm.)
Slow and steady will certainly work wonders for little Lilly. I’m sure she has the makings of a fine little companion, it will just take a lot of coaxing for that dog to come forth.
Because of the fleas, be on the lookout for tapeworms. They’re very common, and unremittingly gross.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/dipylidium/factsht_dipylidium.htm
Watch for little dried segments on her bedding and, uh, not dried ones in her stool (once she starts rewarding you with some). If she has them, a one-time dose of the correct worm stuff will get rid of them.
This has been another episode of “Gross Things You Never Thought Your Pet Could Present You.”
Elie
Yikes!
Meant to say “for taking her in” —
(So much for my multitasking – NOT)
ChrisS
The girlfriend’s cats like to play before bed. We go upstairs, they follow, flop on the their backs for belly rubs. We read for a bit and turn off the lights, and one goes to her bed to be tucked in. Meanwhile, the other roams off in search of her fake mice, meows quietly in the dark, and the proceeds to deposit fake mice and toys on the bed about 10 minutes after lights out. Every night.
As for #2, I dunno, I dog sat for a lovely, well-trained, hunting black lab who absolutely refused to go #2 on the leash. I didn’t discover this until the afternoon of the 2nd day when I took her to a ball park to play catch. She had been holding it for more than 24 hours and was visibly relieved when I took her leash off. She dashed to the bushes and I realized what she needed. Privacy.
Dog Is My Copilot
@LV-426:
(I’m new here so I hope I’m doing the quote right. If not, forgive me.)
Cesar’s method for walking works for me, too – I walk two big dogs (golden retrievers, one 85 lbs. and the other about 70) and one small one (Pomeranian). I get asked constantly, “How do you DO that?” Or, “You really look like you have your hands full.” People who usually make these comments to me are ones with their dogs on flexi-leads, and letting their dogs go wherever they want to.
The trick is to not let them walk out ahead of you (which I always used to do). Applying Cesar’s methods, I can walk all three dogs now without getting my arms pulled out of their sockets. I feel like I have more control over them. They are perfectly well-behaved on walks now and all three of them seem to fall into their places beside me.
Mary
@LV-426:
Like I said, Cesar definitely have his positive sides, and teaching people to better understand the relationship between humans and dogs is extremely valuable. But if you ever want to watch a riot break out, get a bunch of dog trainers together and mention his name.
Shinobi
Mary has a good point, Cesar is great for people who don’t really understand dogs. But for actual dog trainers and behaviorists he is following methodologies that have been long debunked.
There are tons of articles and pretty much every dog training board I read is very anti his methods. If you want to watch a TV personality Victoria Stillwell is much better. She uses positive methods and also teaches families about who should be in charge in a household.
TuiMel
Lots of good advice. Glad to hear the prednisone is short term. Her allergy could be to fleas. Keeping those under control will significantly improve the quality of her life. I have a JRT who has allergies, and hopefully your vet will help you figure out if/how this is part of Lily’s life, as well. I feed my Jack a chicken / oat dry food that is recommended for dogs w/allergies. He also loves the Costco chicken jerky (lots of water when feeding these), and I break one up into his dog food and it always gets him eating. Congrats on doing good for yourself and for Lily. Good luck!
bago
@asiangrrlMN: You do realize that I will mock you mercilessly for being a correlation hippie now, right?
Dog Is My Copilot
I may not agree with each and every one of Cesar Milan’s methods. All I know is that walking them now is a heck of a lot more enjoyable when I’m not getting my arms ripped out of the sockets. That does not happen anymore.
I think some of his methods do work. There are other things I see him do on his show, however, that cause me to wince. I take the bits I think can work with our dogs and apply those. So far, so good.
Zuzu's Petals
@Max:
Pill Pockets do the trick here. My cat actually comes looking for his morning medicine…er, treat.
Laura W
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Nope. You made a comment a while back along those very lines when I diagnosed John as a Cancer and offered tarot throws for the house. Witches of BJ unite.
Crowley deck, by chance?
Loneoak
@Mary:
Anything McConnell says is good enough for me, so I’ll retract the claim that you can reinforce fear. I wish that thread wasn’t closed though, because I think she didn’t fully explain ‘fear’, which is both an emotion that is present at a given time (is in ‘I’m afraid right now’) and routinized reaction to a specific stimulus (as in ‘I react with fear every time I hear thunder’). I still think it’s a mistake to use our usual comforting techniques when dogs are really skittish—they are looking to us for cues about what to (not) be afraid of. If you react to their fear by acknowledging that, yes, that stimulus is scary and needs to be reacted to, it might help with the present fear but it won’t change their behaviors over time. What JC wants to think about is offering plenty of comfort to Lilly when she wants it but concentrating on just being normal and not doting when she is feeling timid. That’s not equivalent to ‘withhold all love if she’s afraid’, which is the classic advice that I think McConnell was responding to.
Shinobi
Unfortunately Dog, Not everyone is as responsible of a dog owner as you. And some people will take any excuse to use force to get their dog to be “calm submissive.” For a lot of people it is easier and more satisfying to force a dog to do what you want, than it is to take the time to really help them learn to communicate with their humans.
I have only seen one show where Cesar worked with dogs on walking but he immediately switched the dogs from flat collars to choke chains and yanked on them the whole time. I can’t say I’m particularly surprised that they were doing what he said.
As much as he might do some good, In my opinion one dog getting alpha rolled is one dog too many.
Here is another link full of links.
LV-426
@Mary: Are you daring me? LOL I love causing riots. I will definitely do that first chance I get.
Loneoak
@Shinobi:
Shinobi, that’s a great article. Everyone who talks up Cesar really ought to read that article to see what contemporary behavioral scientists have to say about ‘dominance’ and ‘alpha’ as incoherent concepts in canine ethology.
Kristine Smith
Shelter dog Mickey had apparently never played with toys in the however many years that he was someone else’s dog. It took a few months, but he picked up the fetch thing and the squeaky toy thing from King.
Gaby had apparently never been fed soft food before. That first night, I fed her diced liver as a topper for dry food–she ate the dry food and tried to roll in the liver. When I tried to feed the liver to her by hand, she sat up and gave me her paw, which I learned is her “Mom–help. I’m confused.” response. She did eventually start eating canned food, but it doesn’t always agree with her, so I don’t give it to her often.
You don’t know what they’ve been through before, so it’s hit or miss for a while. Poor Lily girl.
Mary
@Loneoak:
Loneoak, I totally agree. McConnell even acknowledges that you can’t comfort away fear, either. You have to be able to show dogs that scary things really aren’t scary. That can be especially difficult with thunder storms and the like that are completely out of control.
My own dog is pretty much fearless, which can sometimes be hazardous. But sometimes things that seem out of place or weird make her wary and a little skittish. I remember the first time she saw a snowman, she barked at it and gave it a very wide berth. In response, I spoke to her calmly, and walked up to touch the snow man, showing her that it was OK. When she saw that it didn’t eat me she was able to walk up to it, and even jump on it without fear. Of course, she also ended up knocking it’s head off, but that’s neither here nor there. :)
binzinerator
@Mousebumples:
I was on prednisone for just 3 days during a bad allergy/asthma bout while recovering from bronchitis. I was as sick as a, well, a dog by the 3rd day. And jitteriness? Hell it wasn’t the jitters it was a freaking nervousness damn near close to a panic attack.
Helpful drug? Never again. I’d rather wheeze. Seriously.
I hope that doggie has a better time with it than I did. Or it’s really gonna take a long time to develop trust.
Dog Is My Copilot
Shinobi:
Point taken. I have checked out some of the links you provided and I have had similar concerns about some of Cesar’s methods. It’s interesting to note all sides of the debate and to get a different perspective.
binzinerator
@John Cole:
Allergic to cats?
Didn’t you say she came from a crazy cat lady household? Like, surrounded by 32 cats?
I don’t know if dogs can be allergic to cats, but cats are a known human allergen. (actually their dander and saliva are, but you know what I mean)
Tunch may be a problem for her in more ways than one.
Loneoak
To JC and the other dog owners, these are the toys that my dog goes nuts over. She has a squeeky toy obsession that exceeds most dogs’, but all her dog buddies love them too. Not only do you get to cause the small critter a painful, screaming death, you get to pull them out of a log first!
Delia
Pippin got put on prednisone for skin allergies the first winter we were in Oregon. He gained weight, became lethargic, and worst, developed Addison’s Disease. Oh, yeah, and his hair began to fall out in patches. Fortunately all these problems cleared up when he went off that drug. I changed him to a corn and wheat free food. He went on another drug regimen, and by this last year I’ve been able to lower his drug dosages. I think he’s specifically allergic to molds, since he always does a lot better in the summer. But he can’t ever have prednisone again.
DaddyJ
John, you won’t know her true personality for a while. Our shelter-acquired wheaten was a spaz for a week or two.
Crating is an excellent idea. Gives insecure dogs a place to hide.
I’m a big believer in positive reinforcement training (clicker-treat-praise) as opposed to Cesar Millan-style dog-domination.
Of course, I *am* a DFH! But I think it’s b.s. to pretend you can be your dog’s pack leader. You are not in the wild and neither is your dog.
Here’s a story: second day we had our dog, I took him briefly to my office (it was Saturday) to pick something up. I’m a first-time dog owner and I wasn’t yet used to his needs or picking up on his signals. While I was busy, he found a quiet corner of the conference room to poop in. Well, I immediately yelled at him, and moved to “rub his nose in it” which is what I thought real men did with dogs. Naturally, since I was still a relative stranger, he flipped out in fear and ran away from me, losing the contents of his bladder all the way down the hall. Took me 30 seconds to clean up the poop, but an hour to clean up all the urine.
We started positive reinforcement training a couple weeks later and it’s worked well.
Just because you own a dog doesn’t mean you have to act like one!
Jonothan Cullinane
Death By Mosquito’s post (#19) is brilliant!
Go John! You do great work.
MazeDancer
Rescue Remedy just has to be in contact with skin. So you can get the regular alcohol kind at any health food store. Rub in skin exposed in ear tips. (And daddy gets some, too, via fingers that way.) Spray version good for bedding, crate, blanket, or emergencies. Like in car on way to vet.
Also homeopathic remedy Aconite works wonders for trauma. (Which, apologies, posted with directions in previous Lily thread, today. Oops, thought was posting here in this new one. Must be the new modem…)
YogSothoth
DEFINITELY get Chicken Jerky (Costco is the best place to get it, but you can get it elsewhere). Our dogs are absolutely crazy about it, but they are ambivalent at best to other so-called ‘dog treats’.
I would also suggest Comfort Zone. It’s relatively cheap, and it can’t hurt. I would try that before a herbal doggie tranquilizer. We used it for a while with our Bichons and it seemed to help a bit. Anything to make Lily feel more secure would help.
Phoebe
She is just ridiculously adorable and beautiful. More pictures more pictures more pictures! And more pictures, please.
Also.
Hi-5 to my tarot bitchez! I kick it [relatively] old school, with the Rider Waite. Not the pastel colored pencil version, IHTA. Bwa ha ha ha ha!
lawnorder
Whoever was in doubt never had a cat :p
PS: John, just one thing: shy traumatized dogs that weren’t socialized can do “fear biting” so be extra alert when strangers, particularly kids, visit your house.
My rescued mutt is sweet with me, my cat and my 3 kids but she once bit a door to door salesmen and has snapped at a kid who came running into my yard. Thank heavens the kid was quicker than her!
Blue Raven
Man. All the comments I could follow up on in this under normal circumstances, but then I look up at that sweet picture of a scared Lily and I melt. Nothing matters more than the fact she’s where she’s loved when I look at that shot. Pity not everyone did that, but some people’s hobby horses are more impervious to sweet faces than others, I guess.
Anonymous Academic
Tim Fuller’s comment (#2 on the page) is exactly the right question: “She really has no clue what to do on a leash, though. Sometimes she walks right by me, other times she runs around in a circle looking like she is trying to get away from me, other times she acts like a normal dog. ”
This is a classic Cesar MIlan issue that I had with our rescue. Get the dog on a rope-type, dog-show leash, high on her neck/under her ears, and take her for a walk where she stays beside or behind you. Wear her ass out even if it wears yours down doubly. You need to socialize and provide structure/discipline. Stay calm and in-charge while walking. Inside of two weeks, she will be “housebroken” because all other traits will follow this activity if done right.
lovedog
Someone above mentioned Rescue Remedy, a general bach flower remedy which can never hurt.
There’s also a line of flower remedies for pets I’ve used for my dog for a coupla years. Her issue was a sudden and severe anxiety about being left alone when she was almost 9 years old. The vet had nothing to offer but tranq. meds which seemed awful to me, and also her bouts were pretty unpredictable. I ended up using their Senior Formula and it knocked out her anxieties almost immediately. My brother’s dog also responded well (though not as near-miraculously as mine) to the Tranquility formula for noise sensitivity.
They have some formulations for trauma and trust that might be helpful. Highly recommended if you’re open to that stuff.
http://www.anaflora.com/index.htm
Laura W
@Phoebe:
That was the funniest thing I’ve read all day.
Robertdsc-iphone
What makes me laugh is John deciding to give Tunch one of Lily’s treats, then giving him more of them. Now Tunch is hooked! Ha ha ha!
On a more serious note, you’ve earned major karma points for bringing Lily in and taking such strong care of her. Bless you a thousand times, man.
CynDee
I was Cindy yesterday, but I see a “cindy” here, so I will be CynDee from now on.
1. @Joe 69: SPIRITUAL AND MORAL LIFE: I, too, believe that when our days on Earth are over and we arrive at where we’re going, if we get to be with dogs, we’ll know we’re in the Good Place. In this world of complex ideologies and religiosities, an easy solution is to get real and go by the single standard of comporting ourselves in ways that will be good for dogs. This should result in causing little harm in the rest of the world — partly due to being so (a) BUSY and (b) WORN OUT — and we will automatically be Saved (contrary to the subverted phrase “going to the dogs”).
2. @John: FOOD HAZARDS. If you haven’t had a dog before, you may not be aware of the following things to NEVER give your dog. RAISINS and GRAPES, including GRAPE JUICE, or anything with grape juice in it it, are lethal. Even a small amount can destroy a dog’s liver. When we got doggies we had to be extra careful of not dropping any raisins on the floor when making/eating scones and cookies. Also on the list are: CHOCOLATE and MACADAMIA NUTS. This group probably knows of others. I take cookies to my neighbor, whose lab eats what her human mommy does. I had to warn the mommy about the dangers. I now never take any “hazardous” food to neighbors who have animals. See, your life changes in really unexpected ways.
3. @John: PLANT HAZARDS. Our vet kindly gave us several pages of printouts about toxic plants in the environment, too. We had to be real careful, as our Charlie dog made a salad bar out of whatever was growing in our yard; ate a row of hibiscus down to nubbins. Thank God they aren’t harmful. There were some things I wanted to plant that were off limits. If your dog turns out to be a serious veggie dog, you have to be careful about what plants are in your house and yard. Charlie would eat ANY plant material except mushrooms. Also, no chemical fertilizers on the lawn. And, our Skeeter dog loved chasing the lizards on the corner walls behind the rose bed. He got his poor little ears hung up in rose thorns twice. With beautiful little puppy eyes at risk, one day in five minutes I ripped out my gorgeous roses without regrets.
4. @John: DIETING AND SIMILAR DISPLACEMENT-TYPE HAZARDS. Something that isn’t working out right for your animal can trigger compensating activity that could be dangerous. When we had to put Charlie on a diet, he got so hungry he pulled out a poison roach trap from under the furniture and tried to break it open to get an insect snack. To Charlie, a hunger pang always meant that he was never going going to eat again, but would be dying in the next few moments unless he saved himself by procuring food. CRACK, CRAACK, in the middle of the night. Got to him just in time. Had to change how that diet was being managed. Back to bed with a headache emphasizing my thoughtless caretaking (hadn’t considered EVERYTHING.).
4. @ Everybody: OTHER HAZARDS? I would like to hear what everyone else has to say about hazards to dogs and cats.
5. GUIDING PRINCIPLE: The varying effects of crates and different trainers shows the importance of understanding that each dog is very much its own self with an inner life based not only on species and breed, but on personal memory and experience. Observe the animal (and yourself) and don’t use a particular method just because it works great in some families, in a book, or on TV.
R-Jud
@Phoebe:
1: LOL.
2: Same here. I used to use them strictly as a prompt for journaling, believing that there’s nothing to it other than the reactions I have to the symbolism and the ascribed meanings– your mind wants there to be a connection, so you make one up, etc.
Then in February when I was waaaaaaaaaay overdue with my kid I got fed up, asked “When is my baby coming, fer chrissake?” and drew three cards:
III The Empress (motherhood)
III Pentacles (skilled practitioners, a team)
Knight of Wands (haste, possibly bad health)
Baby turned up on 3/3 via emergency c-section after her heart rate crashed. I was officially spooked.
Jager
I turned my international businessman brother in law on to this thread (he grew up on a 30 square mile cattle ranch and spent years on horseback working Angus with Border Collies) his reaction to all this hand wringing…was; “our cattle dogs ate dry food from the feed store, slept on a pile of sacks in the basement, rode in the back of the pick up, we never bathed them, never bought flea powder just ran ’em through the cattle dip a couple of times a year, they were co-workers not pets.” he added, “but what the hell do I know, that goddamned Tucker sleeps on the bed with us!” (Tuck-Tuck is a Highland Terrier)
MDee
We rescued a golden retriever about 9 years ago from a family who didn’t consider a large dog and a toddler might not live in complete harmony. This was her second family at only 8 months old. We are her third.
I have no idea what Avalon’s life was like before us but she was definitely traumatized. Raise your voice for any reason (not an unusual occurrence in a home that once had a total of 8 critters – down to 5 at the moment) and she was on her back looking guilty and terrified. She still reacts that way to some extent but at least she doesn’t shiver uncontrollably any more.
It took this dog 2 weeks to figure out how to climb and go down stairs to get in and out of the house-she’d never been exposed to stairs before. Now she and Chelsea (our other golden) chase each other across the deck up and down the stairs and either end at joyous full speed (making a hell of a racket). She eyed grass as a new experience when she first arrived. Since we have a little less than an acre of land she had trouble accepting that she could go anywhere for a few weeks so she kept looking for permission. She obviously never had that sort of freedom before. It shouldn’t have been surprising since she was living in the with the trash cans on a narrow concrete-covered side yard at her previous home.
It took a month for her to settle after we took her in. Still, even after all these years she retains traces of her former traumatic beginnings.
Patience and love (obviously not a problem in your home) can go a long way to helping Lily to adjust to her new life, but keep in mind some of those early experiences can run very deep in some of the more sensitive dogs. Avalon is very sensitive. Our other golden, OTOH, is the opposite of sensitive–she has perfected her “fuck you” glance to an art form. Probably stems from her early months hanging around cats.
Avalon still has moments when she is unsure of herself and her place in our menagerie. It’s heartbreaking to watch a beloved companion practically walking on eggshells because of something that obviously happened to them long before they came into your life. But I wouldn’t trade her for anything–she’s a magnificent lovable dog, insecurities and all.
I believe you and Lily (and Tunch) will be just fine.
Laura W
Yo! Tarot Bitchez!
I was just fishing around in iPhoto looking for some photos of Baby Sadie for the new Open Thread and found this one!
Walter (RIP) lying right on top of my morning three-card spread with Sadie taking close notes.
Funny timing, no? I see the Knight of Wands in there…
Krista
@R-Jud: Okay, that IS just spooky. I was going to ask if you or Laura would do a long-distance reading for me, but now I’m thinking that maybe I’m better off remaining in ignorance for now.
Anne Laurie
Okay, this made me laugh. Hard.
So did this, because I have an image of being greeted by a motley crew of cats, dogs, the house rabbit I co-owned in college and the late Roger Errol Wombat (a hamster with a HUGE personality), while my husband’s darling papillon Miss Princess Flicker, aka Buta-Hime-Sama, races back and forth yelling “GO AWAY! We don’t want you here! You’re EVIL! Dammit, would you guys quit being such suck-ups… ! ! !”
As for the Tarot… my favorite is a nameless R/W mod (ripoff) I ‘bought’ from a college housemate 30+ years ago. I prefer decks that have Justice at the VIII position and Strength at XI, but most readers don’t even notice that distinction, much less care.
Laura W
@Krista: Why don’t we both do one for you since we use different decks and possibly different methods of interpretation? Then you could compare and contrast and see where we might have some agreement. And then you could totally trash it all, if you didn’t like it, of course. It’d be cool since we are in three different countries, and continents. Also.
Jager
A friend of ours lost his 7 year old German Shepard to cancer a few weeks ago and he just bought a new pup from a litter that will be ready at the end of July. He e-mailed us the pics of the pups last night. Out of the blue, I get an e mail from Mrs Jager at work, she has picked a female from the litter, named her Ava and I needed to call the breeder and discuss the puppy with him. I did and now pending tests and certifacations, Mrs J will be flying to Dallas next month and bringing home little Ava. We are hooked on GSDs like heroin…
I think little Ava is going to be a superstar, her paternal Grandpa was World Champion Sieger and her maternal Grandpa was 2 time German Sieger, both parents are Shutzhund 111’s and champs in their own right. The GSD shows aren’t beauty pageants they are tests of skill, confirmation and working ability…the breeder thinks we should let her have 1 litter…the problem is we’d end up keeping them all! Don’t give me crap about rescue, I donate cash and maintain my 40 plus year GSD jones with a clear consience!
mary
@CynDee:
Onions are another food hazard.
@Jager:
Working dogs have their own special set of high maintenance requirements (like, uh, training and stuff). Companion animals have to be able to co-habitate with humans. I’ll let you decide which job is harder ;)
Facebones
You can get her acclimated to you faster if you take a shirt that
you’ve worn while sweating and put it in her house for her to sleep with. She will learn that your smell is a comforting thing and get used to you faster.
Also when feeding in the morning make sure you feed yourself
first. She needs to see you eat so eat in front of her and feed
anyone else human or animal that you want to keep safe before
you feed her. This will let her know her place in your house
and she will be comfortable because doggie order ( You are the lead dog and then any other human as well , then your kitty – there
won’t be fights because the order of the house will be known- in the dog world the hierarchy is determined by who eats first.
Also who is first out the door when walking
So when taking her for a walk , don’t let her get out the door
before you , gently with your foot block her before she exits
and keep her leash to your side making her follow behind you.
This will also keep her feeling secure because the big dog leads
the way on the leash too. And teaching her to play with a ball is
fun, put the ball in her crate with her, she will learn to chew on it
eventually and playing a game of fetch is easier to teach her that way.
And praise her like crazy when she pees or poops outside,
ignore bad and praise good works well for timid dogs, she
is probably still insecure from not living full time with humans.
She is very cute ! good luck! And congrats on your new furry child!
Facebones
You can get her acclimated to you faster if you take a shirt that
you’ve worn while sweating and put it in her house for her to sleep with. She will learn that your smell is a comforting thing and get used to you faster.
Also when feeding in the morning make sure you feed yourself
first. She needs to see you eat it so eat it in front of her and feed
anyone else human or animal that you want to keep safe before
you feed her. This will let her know her place in your house
and she will be comfortable because doggie order ( You are the lead dog and then any other human as well , then your kitty – there
won’t be fights because the order of the house will be known- in the dog world the hierarchy is determined by who eats first.
Also who is first out the door when walking
So when taking her for a walk , don’t let her get out the door
before you , gently with your foot block her before she exits
and keep her leash to your side making her follow behind you.
This will also keep her feeling secure because the big dog leads
the way on the leash too. And teaching her to play with a ball is
fun, put the ball in her crate with her, she will learn to chew on it
eventually and playing a game of fetch is easier to teach her that way.
And praise her like crazy when she pees or poops outside,
ignore bad and praise good works well for timid dogs, she
is probably still insecure from not living full time with humans.
She is very cute ! good luck! And congrats on your new furry child!
Krista
That’d be cool. Drop me an email. redkitten1975 at gmail dot com.
Jager
Mary,
We work our current GSD pretty hard. Lots of ball work, still jumps pretty well at 10 and his nose has maintained its sensitivity as I can hide a sock at the park and he’ll work his tail off looking for it. He has a top flight background, too. He likes to be kept interested and active and he is a great companion. I think he will be a great role model for little Ava. With my previous GSDs (his distant cousins, actually) I got into the working stuff and tried Schutzhund, too demanding of my time and I learned enough to help the dog become a good citizen, well behaved, obedient and one helluva alot of fun to have around. Our past dogs have well above average GSDs, Ava is a 12 on the 10 scale. I just thought about the fact that when Ava is Straka’s age i will have had hairball GSDs for over 50 years!
Phoebe
I heart the tarot love!
I’m all inspired. I haven’t done a reading in years now, but I think I’ll get back into it. It was fun. Sometimes I’d get something I couldn’t figure out at all, but this one time, the best time, my ex bf’s kid brother, who was notorious for unrealistic harebrained schemes, asked me to do a reading for this plan he had, called “go back to Chicago and steal my friend’s girlfriend because, a long time ago, back when he got her, I really think she liked me better.” So I did the flip flip flip, while rolling my eyes, and there was no way to spin this, it was all two of cups, ten of cups outcome, sun, four of wands, blah blah happy blah, and he went and did it, they formed a band together that is one of my favorite bands, and have an adorable kid.
The band is Puerto Muerto:
http://www.last.fm/music/Puerto+Muerto
R-Jud, that’s freaky, and I’m glad you had the three of pentacles team at the helm. I like those guys. I like them more now, ha!
Laura W
@Phoebe: I do a 3-card throw nearly every morning. Some days I skip if I really like the previous day’s. I totally cheat and let the energies settle in for another day or two, trying to milk the good vibes for all they are worth.
I pull my 3 (physical/emotional/spiritual) cards, and then the 4th is usually something that is prominent on my mind that I need a big clue or some Guidance about. And it can be the very same subject/question for weeks on end. Often it is. Currently it is.
Y’all ever find the same major arcana cards repeat over and over and over and over? For like a year or two?
Me too.
Phoebe
I have to familiarize myself with the cards again, but then I’ll try that.
Now here’s fun for the whole family: Tell Your Future With the Oldies!
Ask a question of the oldies station when you’re in the car. Future or advice, general or specific. The next song that comes on answers it. This can be extremely entertaining. The last time I played it my mom asked “Where should I live?” and got Hotel California. Which I interpreted as a cautionary tale, of course.
R-Jud
@Laura W:
Yep. What I don’t like is that as soon as I got pregnant it was The Tower, The Hanged Man, Tower, Hanged Man, over and over again, and still is. Occasionally the Sun is in there, but mostly it’s all about disruptions and waiting around.
I usually pick two and then a third if I’m not getting a narrative off the first pair. I don’t generally “ask” about specific things, I just sort of zone out, shuffle for a while, and pick. Then write for half an hour. I know that the writing bit is more beneficial than the cards, but the cards give me the nudge to write.
Krista, I will email you later today (Thursday).