Conservatives have legitimate ideological beefs with Obama, rightly expressed in sharp language. But the invective in some quarters has unmistakably amped up. The writer Camille Paglia, a political independent and confessed talk-radio fan, detected a shift toward paranoia in the air waves by mid-May. When “the tone darkens toward a rhetoric of purgation and annihilation,” she observed in Salon, “there is reason for alarm.” She cited a “joke” repeated by a Rush Limbaugh fill-in host, a talk-radio jock from Dallas of all places, about how “any U.S. soldier” who found himself with only two bullets in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden would use both shots to assassinate Pelosi and then strangle Reid and bin Laden.
***It’s typical of this dereliction of responsibility that when the Department of Homeland Security released a plausible (and, tragically, prescient) report about far-right domestic terrorism two months ago, the conservative response was to trash it as “the height of insult,” in the words of the G.O.P. chairman Michael Steele. But as Smith also said last week, Homeland Security was “warning us for a reason.”
No matter. Last week it was business as usual, as Republican leaders nattered ad infinitum over the juvenile rivalry of Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich at the party’s big Washington fund-raiser. Few if any mentioned, let alone questioned, the ominous script delivered by the actor Jon Voight with the G.O.P. imprimatur at that same event. Voight’s devout wish was to “bring an end to this false prophet Obama.”
This kind of rhetoric, with its pseudo-Scriptural call to action, is toxic. It is getting louder each day of the Obama presidency. No one, not even Fox News viewers, can say they weren’t warned.
I’ll tell you what it is- it’s scary. And irresponsible. And shameful. And dangerous.
And if something does happen, I’m not sure I’m going to be able to control myself when the usual suspects start their ass-covering, self-serving bullshit about how Limbaugh et. al aren’t to blame for the actions of one lunatic.
linda
and we’re barely five months into obama’s administration. i fully expect some serious civil disturbances in the coming years, egged on by a political media industry that thrives on political discord and an irresponsible gop that grows more desperate and marginalized each day and a gutless democratic party that fails to address the ugliness.
Emma
Oh, something is going to happen. No doubt about it. The question is just what and when.
Short Bus Bully
I have many friends, my parents included, who were shocked when Obama made it through the campaign without an open attempt on his life. This hatred is no fucking joke, and the talking heads who ramp up these assholes have as much blood on their hands as they accused Dr. George Tiller of having.
I write this as a gun-owner and NRA member. I am not wanting new gun laws enacted by any means, but I DO want the FBI and Dept. of Homeland Security to take these psychos seriously and start spending as much time defending us from domestic terrorists as they do defending us from the foreign ones.
But more than anything I want the weak-kneed Dem lawmakers to grow a sack and start badgering the right about this homegrown terrorist bullshit. They need to start calling these fuckers to the carpet and using the word TERRORIST to describe their actions. Unfortunately Dems have strong rhetoric about as often as Herr Rushbo hits the treadmill.
I would like to personally shake the hand of every Secret Service agent tasked with protecting the President and the First Family. They at least know how tough their job is these days.
cleek
something has already happened. many things, in fact: Adkisson, Poplawski, Roeder, von Brunn.
Richard Bottoms
Still waiting for that apology. :-)
However, I am glad you switched sides to the non-crazy party.
Ed in NJ
I don’t understand why some high-ranking Democrat doesn’t come out swinging against Rupert Murdoch. Here’s a foreigner who practically controls the entire U.S. media and no one says a word about it. Yet someone like George Soros is demonized on the right for making donations to MoveOn and supporting Media Matters.
It’s time to force him to own up to what he’s done. Get him on the defensive so that his media outlets are shamed into showing some balance and restraint.
Too bad there is no one on the left with the balls to do it, since they are so afraid their hold on power is so tenuous.
A Mom Anon
I lost my family to this fucking”movement”. I haven’t had a thing to do with my parents or sister for more than 5 yrs because of it.
It started with Amway and Hal Lindsey(that should give you a clue as to the hell of my childhood),then it moved into the Southern Baptist version of hellfire and damnation. The final straw was my mom actually requesting I remove certain items in my house that she found offensive(books about paganism,most of the horrible evil rock music we listen to,etc)before she would set foot in my house again. In nearly the same breath she said my son(who is autistic)was a punishment from god because I won’t go to church. She’s convinced he’s evil too,he’s going to grow up to be a sociopath and kill someone. (he’s the sweetest 15 yr old boy in the world,honestly,wtf?) The minister of their church,who has never met me or my son btw,reinforced all this crap. I seriously hope he’s found with a wet suit and sex toys someday.
I take this shit personally. These people do not care who they hurt,take advantage of or destroy. What in the hell is it going to take before this crap gets marginalized where it belongs?
Oh,and Lily is freaking awesome,I love the pic of her tail curled over her back. I think she loves you John,bunches.
The Saff
Right.
I can’t help but be afraid for Obama’s safety with this high-pitched angry rhetoric growing louder every day. I mean, OK if you don’t like his policies but that’s no reason to say the kind of hateful, ugly, untrue things the wingnuttery say. I despised Dubya’s policies but that didn’t mean I wanted someone to hurt him. I just wanted him to go back to Texas. Same with Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney, and the rest of the right.
Frank Rich’s columns are always insightful, interesting, and well-documented.
omen
recent events haven’t softened hannity’s rhetoric any. last week he was going on and on, getting louder and louder, about how obama was destroying the country. you could almost hear the subtext suggestion that it’s a patriot’s god given duty to get rid of obama in order to spare the nation.
Cain
My father was saying the same thing. I dismissed it as somewhat paranoid ramblings. I can’t imagine that there would be such a crazy response to this. But thanks to Hannity and others I guess it’s getting pretty bad.
cain
CynDee
DO SOMETHING!
What any of us can do is to write anyone, especially to public officials and to inciters and managers of those who incite to violence and prejudice and call them out on it — ask them if they really want another Holocaust, because that is what this much hate, acted upon, actually leads to. See the letter that Holocaust Museum’s director wrote to members. You can find it on the internet.
Call the inciters out for their cowardice–expose this about them, noticing that they hope others will do the bad deeds. Call them out for fantastically believing that the violence they are calling for will somehow spare them and their families and the future that their own kids will have to grow up in. Call them out when they say that they are not inciting. Ask them what it is they ARE doing? Make them tell why they want violence. Make them actually articulate their goal of hoping for Armageddon or whatever. I’m not saying to confront anybody in person — but demand explanations especially from public figures like Jon Voigt and your own members of Congress.
Call out public officials like Michale Steele for trivializing a dangerous problem, betraying the public trust and neglecting their duties to American citizens and living under the Constitution. Call for boycotts of businesses and media outlets who try to enable violence. Call for better action: enable life and health, not death and destruction. Demand that your own members of Congress take on the calling out of those who enable hatred.
Ask these inciters what they want out of this? Do they really want to find themselves standing in a riot scene with the water and the internet and the TV shut off and not be able to get gas for the SUV?
Ask all this in calls, letters to the offenders, and letters to the editors of the newspapers we still have. If every one of us publicly insists on the haters accounting for what end they exactly want to achieve, we do have a chance to cut it down. If we don’t, each of us do this now, we will desperately wish that we had when the chance was there.
Fulcanelli
Now you’re getting it, John. As their reckless, twisted rhetoric ratchets up the temperature in Wingnuttia(TM), more violence will inevitably occur. Expect wave after wave of “Big Lie” Orwellian doublespeak similar to what’s already begun, such as the ludicrous claims that “Von Braun was a Liberal”, for the purpose of firing up the GOP base and rewriting history.
It used to be that “revisionists” like the Holocaust deniers had to wait for years to see how Historians, Journalists, the Media and the public recorded and weighed in on political events and the ensuing upheaval and change. However, with everything happening and being recorded, judged and disseminated in real time on the Internet and other global electronic media, the Right has wised up to the fact that they’ve got to get their twisted message out fast and hard to keep their momentum after screwing things up so badly over the last 30 years. Especially up against a popular, media savvy President like Obama.
There’s no time for refining their ugly, divisive message to try to reach a wider audience, they’re shooting from the hip and it shows. They know how high the stakes are. Has any one watched any video clips of Rush Limbaugh lately? He looks like he’s about to explode and there’s a good reason for that.
D-Chance.
And if something does happen, I’m not sure I’m going to be able to control myself…
So… just what ARE you going to do about it?
This is a country on the verge of Civil War II. The extremists of one wing are already taking it to the streets and shedding the blood of others. Its more mainstream members are either in denial or throwing their hands up saying “hey, not my fault”.
So, what IS the other wing going to do, other than whine and bitch and moan and complain? More blog posts? Letters to the editor? Appeals for some form of humanity? The continuation of “I’m outraged!” comments with nothing to back it other than the stamping of ones’ feet and crossing of ones’ arms?
It’s going to take more than that, folks, if you wish to not see this country devolve even further. The action has to be swift; it has to be decisive (regardless of how controversial it may be). I’m just not sure anyone has the cojones to do what’s necessary.
JoyceH
I still think the answer is to protest them back. Which really DOESN’T HAPPEN. Why isn’t Randall Terry greeted by picketers every time he makes an appearance? Since the right projects their own violence onto everyone else, just the sight of a few picketers ought to scare the pee out of him – he knows what HIS protesters turn into, and would assume that picketers against him are the same. Picket the clinic protesters, maybe even picket their homes. Why should one side get to choose for themselves the time and the extent they’re engaged in the controversy, while the other side has to live with it 24/7?
I think one of the reasons this movement is growing so rapidly is the assumption that we won’t fight back.
kommrade reproductive vigor
The only thing I find surprising is how tame this shit has been.
Compared to what I was expecting.
And so far as the babbling fuckwits on the right go, I wonder if they realize the danger they’re creating for themselves. Eva Von Brunn wrote them off as all talk and I doubt he’s the only fan who feels disappointed with those loudmouths. When the mentally unstable portion of the audience starts to as though they’ve been personally let down by the voice on the radio or the face on the TV, look out.
Pennypacker
Look how the anti-immigration paranoia is fueling these kinds of crimes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/shawna-forde-minutemen-le_n_215246.html
I suppose right-wing radio has nothing to do with THIS, either…
Barbara
Hannity and Rush et al. have a need to stoke the paranoid fire. Yes, it’s ugly, and it’s even uglier because when you step back and think about it, Obama, like Clinton before him, isn’t even particularly liberal. That’s what kills me: it doesn’t matter what he believes (“every abortion is a tragedy”) or how moderate he is, the players have chosen sides and stopped listening.
But what is it that they want? What affirmative vision are they articulating?
I know racism is at the heart of it, subliminal or unconscious as it might be, but it’s damned frightening that so many are so unthinking about it.
Anton Sirius
Don’t sugar-coat it, John. The right-wing punditocracy are anti-American. They are destroying this country, and it is the duty of every red-blooded patriotic American to do something, anything, to stop them. By any means necessary. Their paranoid, hateful rhetoric is straight out of the Pravda playbook. They have blood on their hands.
Hey, what’s good for the goose, etc.
Anton Sirius
I see D-chance and I are on the same wavelength…
gbear
Terry Randall knows that protesters from our side will never go as far as his anti-choice protesters. WE don’t want to go that far. The anti-choice protesters are willing to go to depths that we’re afraid to flirt with.
That said, it’s hard to mount a counterprotest against the anti-choicers because they absorb any pushback as further proof of their victimhood. They gain strength from it because they feed on hatred from any and every direction. Randall Terry is not going to have the pee scared out of him by our protesters. He’ll just smile.
What Rachel Maddow’s been doing on her show may start scaring the pee out of him, just because it’s scaring the pee out of anyone who’s been watching her coverage of the far-right. Sunlight and truth are what is most needed to combat people like Terry. We need to keep pointing out what their words and deeds actually portend.
CynDee
@Anton Sirius,
What wavelength is that? I haven’t seen you suggest anything you plan to actually DO, and that others of us might DO. What do you recommend?
Brick Oven Bill
Rich is projecting himself again, see also #13, 14, 18, 19, #21 above. Most of the criticism he brings up is legitimate political speech, which pales in comparison to the open suggestions that were made about President Bush. It is not a bad thing to criticize a President, it is a necessary part of a functioning Republic. The only people trying to tie all of these individual statements together to make a case for what Rich is making a case for is the left.
The guys I know on the right are very happy about having a President Obama as the Country will have a chance to live through his policies.
The most significant ‘enabler’ is the President himself, by raising questions about his own legitimacy by not releasing his birth certificate. This is a serious Constitutional issue, and the American people should be made aware of the actual status, transparency and all. If he is hiding it to score cheap political points at some future time, it is irresponsible as it makes Americans wonder. If he falsified documents to get around a technicality and assume the Presidency, it is worse.
I have to point out that the victims of the four ‘hate’ incidents Rich is bemoaning over a long period of time throughout the whole nation number less than the victims of hate in Chicago on some weekends.
Mr Furious
@Brick Oven Bill:
Who on the left is the “equivalent” to Voight? Michael Moore? I don’t recall any thinly veiled calls for Bush’s assassination from Moore or anyone else?
I’ll be eating pie the rest of the day.
erlking
Sorry, BOB, that’s bullshit. Fuck the birth certificate. His mom was a citizen, he’s a citizen and eligible to hold the office. End of fucking story.
Morbo
@Brick Oven Bill: You’re a funny man.
And Jon Voight, WTF, honestly… this is something his character on this last season of “24” would say. Unless that quote was cut off before the phrase “in 2012” how can that be seen as anything besides eliminationist?
Anton Sirius
@CynDee:
I recommend swift, decisive action! Urgently!
Gee, this is a fun game. I get why Beck and O’Reilly and Hannity et al, like playing it.
Redshirt
The only real practical and possibly effective tactic we have at our disposal is advertiser boycotts and concentrated media campaigns. Hit Rush, Hannity, et al where it counts: The pocketbook. Ask the major sponsors if they support the things being said on these programs. In conjunction, publicize the hell out it. ThinkProgress is great in this regard, as obviously, MediaMatters. But more people need to get involved.
Sponsors are key though — we are in a pivotal time for our collective media (print, tv, radio, internet). Applying serious pressure via sponsors could have a serious impact.
Waingro
@D-Chance.:
I agree with your general take on the situation, but I’m puzzled by the above statement. I’m not sure “what’s necessary”. Pelt O’Reilly with rotten fruit? Give Glenn Beck a wedgie? Force Hannity to read a book? These people are disgusting monsters, but they are what they are.
I agree with John, though- if something happens to Obama, people on our side will really flip the fuck out. As in, a mob of pissed off lefties storm Fox studios in Manhattan, and drag their asses into the street….
These cretins have no idea what they’re stirring up.
Brick Oven Bill
Bush assassination movie debuts in Toronto.
If he was to have made the ‘mom was a Citizen’ case he could of. But instead there is, what appears to me, a falsified record of birth. I’ll leave the legal details up to the lawyers, but my limited understanding is that she had to reside in the US for 5 years after her 14th birthday at the time, and gave birth at the age of 18.
But there is also a saying that it is never the crime, it is the cover-up. A Presidential candidate falsifying records is also a no-no.
Tom M
Frank Rich’s columns are always insightful, interesting, and well-documented.
Really? You must have very low standards. How about this one one from 10/07/07
How about when he stayed flipped out about the Clintons:
There’s lots more at the Daily Howler.
Frank Rich helped put Bush in the White House with his lying about Al Gore and the Clintons. How’d that work out for you?
gbear
Bush in the Texas Air National Guard. Just sayin’…
JoyceH
Anyone who still believes this is simply insane, with no qualification whatsoever.
Doug H.
I’m sorry, Klanner Bill, that the President is an uppity negro who doesn’t know his place.
No, wait. I’m not sorry. How about trying that seccession thing again? It worked so well the last time!
matoko_chan
How many people have seen the movie The Fisher King?
I wonder if Beck could see himself in it….Poplawski posted a Beck clip to Stormfront before he killed those cops.
When Ed Morrissey got all puffed up about the DHS report I asked him why he thought the report was describing him and the right.
I asked him a rhetorical question….did he want to see Obama assassinated? Because declaring solidarity with violent extremists would seem to imply that.
I do think if O was assassinated, the collective right would disavow their influence, whisper that O brought it on himself like they do about Dr. Tiller, and secretly rejoice.
Doug H.
And for those calling for action, feel free to actually, y’know, do something. We’ll all line up behind you just like the Klanner Bills are lining up behind Gauleiter von Brunn. Aaaaaany day now.
Brick Oven Bill
You know you’ve made a valid point when they start calling you names.
Belvoir
@Brick Oven Bill:
Yes, your understanding is indeed limited. A US citizen is a US citizen, and I would love to see the law telling her she “had to give birth at 18”, or “reside in the US 5 years after her 14th birthday” for Obama to be a citizen. Seriously, that’s ridiculous.
Also, that “Bush assassination” movie was made in Britain, by British people, a foreign TV movie. But by all means, blame US progressives for that.
bago
D-Chance is a troll, using the very same inflammatory language of incitement to violence that is being decried.
WereBear
Once again, the Far Right gets what they want; mayhem, hatred, and dead bodies.
But they forgot to be careful what they wished for.
The sane segment of the public is horrified. They are turning away from the idiocy of the TV (tv news ratings dropping like rocks in a hot pond, newspapers drowning in their own right-wing swill,) withdrawing their support from ranting candidates (the GOP current and continuing loss of voters) and are starting to view the Right’s pet projects (deregulation, union busting, and destruction of social safety nets) with well-founded, and long overdue, skepticism.
I have been unfortunate enough to live my entire life thus far in conjunction with the rising tide of conservatism that began with Goldwater. This floodwater has destroyed opportunities and supports people didn’t know they had; until they were weakened and ruined.
Now that the tide is going out, the wreckage is clear to all but the most willfully blind.
They had their high water mark. And it will be pointed to for generations; as a warning.
Things will get better; things have already gotten better. It’s just hard to tell right now; but I’m trying to look forward to the rest of my life gradually getting better; just as, without my realizing it, the first half of my life was gradually getting worse.
Brick Oven Bill
OK Belvoir, I’ll be ridiculous, State Department Link:
“Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.”
Montysano
@D-Chance.:
Do tell us what it is that’s necessary, OK? We’re all waiting.
As for myself, I have no clue what to do. It’s tough, in a conflict situation, when one side makes the decision to throw ethics, truth, morals, fair play, etc, overboard. It’s a hard thing to defend/prevent. There’s really no other way to say it: Hannity, Beck, et al, lie and mislead for a living. Rachel Maddow does not.
Doug H.
@Klanner Bill: Should we bring Phil over from ObWi to discuss that point?
If the hood fits, you should be proud to wear it.
Steeplejack
@Brick Oven Bill:
BOB, you [epithet redacted], Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, which was part of the United States of America in 1961. It was not “abroad.”
But thank you for admitting that you are ridiculous.
Punchy
@Brick Oven Bill: What the fuck about Hawaii is being abroad? Take your weak Rand McNally-less troll shit elsewhere.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Brick Oven Bill:
OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE.
Seriously, spoof or not, this is getting tiresome.
Brick Oven Bill
Gee, the argument an hour ago was that it didn’t matter where he was born as long as his mother was a US Citizen. Things that make you go hmmm.
Tell Phil (Mo__ey B_tl_r) I said hi Doug. Also tell him that friction releases that wonderful electricity from Uranium.
My point is that the issue is raising legitimate Constitutional questions and the Administration should be transparent on it, as people are starting to get uneasy, as evidenced by the Frank Rich column.
I will now shut up on this issue.
Elie
Thanks for this post, John.
I commented on a post about the crazies here a few days ago lamenting that rather than funny anymore — noting their inability to use or marshall facts, to support the Palins and Gingriches — that I was figuring that they had actually made a CHOICE. I challenged us to think about what we were going to DO about it — laughing it off no longer seemed adequate…
For the comments upstring criticizing the Democrats — I just think that it is a very difficult thing to do. When you have people making physical threats and acting out — you have to handle it carefully — because Just-Like-That — you can set things in motion that you do not — cannot control.
We have a free society without a lot of structures in place to suppress. That is both good and bad. Once you have crazies acting out — direct police action to actively suppress must be handled very very carefully. In fact, HOW to separate these people from legitimate representation and support in the MEDIA is a key part of this problem. In other times, the media would not have legitimated or encited these extreme points of view. That is no longer true.
I would propose that we START with the crazy supporting media — and even that has to be done very carefully…
I know, I know — we had all wanted them to settle down, and burn out the crazy. But it is instead escalating — not yet catastrophically, but there has been no down side to the FOXes and the like and no way to actually link them to any consequence directly. Until we can find a way to split the core right wing crazies from the oxygen provided by this unseemly and dangerous media support — we are in some ways boxed in.
I do think that it will be necessary for the larger population of our country to silence this. This harkens back to my training in psych nursing. When a patient becomes hostile or violent, the restraints and drugs are the last step. The most effective means of nipping this in the bud was the quiet power of larger group — the quiet support and presense of the other staff. If we get to the point of needing something beyond that — well — we are all going to be in major major hurt…
I am betting not. Maybe at some point, Obama will have another speech — something like that…
Grumpy Code Monkey
@D-Chance.:
Hardly. This country is on the verge of seeing a sharp rise in domestic terrorism, but that’s not quite the same thing.
abo gato
Well, what can we do? I say we make a vow to call the Secret Service EVERY time we see some crazy ass idiot on the Internet or on tv saying shit about Obama. You know the Baptist preacher the other day? Wiley Drake? Was praying for the death of Obama? My husband called the Secret Service about that guy. Had a very nice conversation with an agent there who told him they wanted to hear about these instances. Every time someone tells them that stuff, he said they make a note of it. (Seems to me, some of those file folders are getting mighty big now). The agent even called back after about an hour to tell him that he had talked to headquarters and that they were all over Drake and had been monitoring him for a few months. Told him that they appreciated people taking the time to report this, because “they can’t monitor the whole Internet”…..so, let’s flood them with reports of these nuts.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Brick Oven Bill:
For now. Maybe. But I doubt it.
b-psycho
I’m bored, so I’ll humor B.O.B. for a moment:
Say, hypothetically, the rule about having to be a US citizen by birth were repealed by legislation, and instead holding citizenship for a period — 20-30 years, to throw out a range — made one eligible to run for president. Could you see yourself voting for someone who wasn’t born here in that case? If not, why not?
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
Oh criminey, not again.
How many times have you been corrected on this?
Like here.
And here…read the whole thread.
(Oh, and about that whole “electronic copy” thing? Here’s what the State of Hawaii told someone who, you know, bothered to ask.)
I’d say you were deliberately obtuse, but that would be fancifying your trollishness.
Brick Oven Bill
I would respond b-pyscho, but Grumpy Code Monkey would get me on an ethics violation. I defer to the audience.
Mike P
I await some of the Reason crowd coming back here to let us know that people aren’t responsible for the actions others take because of their words.
Zuzu's Petals
Why did my prior go to moderation?
jshubbub
BOB:
Except your point has one small, but significant, flaw. Obama wasn’t born abroad. He was born in Hawaii. I’ve been to Hawaii a number of times and can confirm that it is, in fact, a US state. That fact, along with the fact that it has been a state since 1959, is cleverly concealed in books so I can understand why you might have had some trouble finding it.
The state of Hawaii has provided a valid, confirmed copy of the birth certificate for all to see, but people such as yourself won’t accept that because it’s not the original. The fact that Hawaii doesn’t release original birth certificates for anybody is just a convenient cover for your position.
You won’t believe Obama was born in the US unless you can see his original birth certificate. Hawaii, by law, cannot release the original. Therefore, your position is correct. That’s a fair representation of your argument, yes?
Unless you want to take the even nuttier position that a US state is engaged in a conspiracy to commit electoral fraud, Hawaii has provided legitimate legal evidence of Obama’s status as a natural born citizen. Why, exactly, can’t you (or any of your compatriots in this quixotic cause) provide a legitimate, confirmed birth record showing the opposite? That’s the way arguments are justified–by evidence. Where’s yours? And if you have such evidence then why isn’t it in front of a federal judge right this minute?
Oh, that’s right. I remember. You people have been laughed out of court, what is it, three times now? Or is it only twice? I don’t want to be uncharitable.
lamh32
here’s what I know. if anyone thought the aftermath of MLK Jr death was bad, you do not want to think about what would happen if anything was to happen to not just President Obama, but ANY of the Obama family, but especially Barack. Back then, cities burned, but today in our gun-obsessed culture alot more than burning could happen.
If these people weren’t crazy, they would think twice before doing anything. What would be scarier for them, an African American president for 4 maybe 8 years, or an actualy non-white minority uprising.
Elie
On an existensial plane…
Part of what I think is driving the right wild, is the change in attitude and perspective that takes or tries to move this country out of fear and reactionary beliefs to positivity and integration with the larger world — and to celebration of science and objective reality. This contrasts with the witchcraft and magical schema on the right — where facts dont link and the world is without logic or consequence beyond their unexamined belief systems…
More than specific policy successes, they probably see that as more of a threat to their long term political fortunes. The threats of violence, the coursening of discussion through name calling and ugly accusations I think are intended to incite us — not really the administration. They want us angry and likey to react. They want fights and skirmishes. They want policemen busting their various demigoguical leaders. They want the ISSUE because they want to take the public mood and our national discourse
AWAY from the positive energy of change and objective, rational governance and existence in a pluralistic society, BACK to fear, extreme opposition and suppression. They NEED Obama and us to try to SUPPRESS them. Without that, their frame for existence weakens and disappears…
What do you all think about that notion?
Turgidson
@matoko_chan:
I don’t think there’d be anything secret about it. Hell, judging from any of Fox’s programming not featuring Shep Smith, they’d be uncorking champagne on the air within minutes of such news.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
Hey, spreading an unfounded rumor that GWB was really an inflatable dummy would’ve “raised legitimate Constitutional questions” but that doesn’t mean they would’ve been worth responding to. Especially after showing he in fact wasn’t inflatable.
Montysano
@b-psycho:
So you’re asking BOB for facts, for his reasoning? Good luck with that. In the past 2-3 years, I’ve probably had 12+ letters to the editor published in our local newspaper. In that time, no one has ever responded with “You’re wrong, and here’s why”. Not. Once. It’s alway just more spittle and bile. It’s almost as if rightwingers have been stricken with some sort of mass psychosis. I used to find it entertaining, but it’s crossed the line into being scary.
WereBear
Zuzu’s Petals @ 59:
Totally awesome comment.
Fact is, without their control of major media outlets, no one would listen. And since all they care about is eyeballs, I think they will continue dumbing down, since the smart eyeballs are leaving their sphere of influence.
Criminy, Fox has, what, a sixty something average age of audience?
If Rupert Murdoch wasn’t even older, he would wake up in a cold sweat every night.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Brick Oven Bill:
Oh, no, don’t let me stop you. I was just expressing my skepticism that you wouldn’t spontaneously bring up the subject in a future thread. By all means, respond to questions in this thread if you wish.
But it is getting tiresome. Your chief flaw as a troll/spoof/whatever is that you keep harping on subjects long after they’ve passed their sell-by date. We’ve long since moved on to Obama turning the US into a worker’s paradise by bailing out GM; do keep up.
The question of Obama’s status as a natural-born citizen has been resolved to my (and a great many other people’s) satisfaction, but you know, some people still honestly believe the Earth is flat, no matter how much evidence you provide to the contrary.
West of the Cascades
@Doug H.: The succession thing isn’t a bad idea, although this time we keep Virginia and North Carolina and let the rest go without a fight. They can take Oklahoma and Kentucky to compensate. Good riddance. Then we build a 20-foot tall wall from New Mexico to the Atlantic Ocean and keep them from ever coming into our country, and selectively deport the BOBs of the world to the new Southeastern Republic of GOPistan (assuming he isn’t already a citizen thereof).
Zuzu's Petals
@Fulcanelli:
Speaking of ugly wingnuts.
Yeah, this is the guy who posted the ridiculous piece. Also has his own blog, where he describes himself as a former Reagan intern, and EPA staffer under Poppy.
Richard Bottoms
Street protests are a waste of time.
Go after the advertisers on Fox about the specific issue of inciting violence against the president. The gold scammers and erection pill purveyors will be all they have left.
Garrigus Carraig
I haven’t seen George W. Bush’s birth certificate. Or Carter’s. I have seen George Romney’s though. Just sayin’.
JoyceH
Hey, not just non-white. I’m a plump, middle-aged white woman who last shot a gun over thirty years ago, but if these jokers harm any Obama, I’d probably be going after them myself.
Pasquinade
@Brick Oven Bill
You join von Brunn, FReepers, and World Nut Daily in your birther status.
Fine company, eh?
iluvsummr
@D-Chance.:
Hey – it isn’t fair for you to call for Rupert Murdoch to be deported back to Australia without a hearing. It would be illegal too.
In all seriousness though, your post is just as disturbing as anything on the Fox news forums. Perhaps engaging the folks there in keyboard battle would help you feel better?
Brick Oven Bill
With Grumpy Code Monkey’s concurrence, here you go b-pyscho:
I would not vote for a foreign-born non-Citizen candidate because the Constitution tells me I can’t, for starters. I suspect that the Founder’s reasoning was that men hold allegiances, conscious or not, to their birthplaces. This is probably evolutionary in nature as childhood acquaintances likely carried similar DNA to the person in question, and it is in the person in question’s biological interest to propagate that particular brand of DNA sequencing, to the potential detriment of the Union.
I, for instance, enjoy going back to my home town. The draw would likely be stronger to a home country.
….
ZuZu’s Petals;
I have reviewed your link. Please explain why the Obama Administration would be willing to release the ‘certificate’ to the Annenberg Foundation, a loony leftist outfit, and refuse to provide a copy to say the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, a man who really needs to have confidence in who his Commander in Chief is?
Why not let the public see it and put these rumors to rest? It makes no rational sense. It seems to be either a political trap or a cover up, neither of which is becoming of the President of the United States, in my opinion.
I suspect he is caught up in a bad fake.
Elie
D-Chance @ 13 —
Man, (or woman) — you are playing right into their hands. The right would love a big fight — to control events from a position down in the ditch of violence and hate with them.
Naw — we are smarter — we will figure it out — use their energy against them in the way that works…
Not play their same war games and exclusion tactics. They win when that happens…
Pasquinade
@Brick Oven Bill
Walter & Leonore Annenberg
Leonore endorsed McCain. McCain Campaign released its list of Ambassadors supporting him. It included, Mrs. Annenberg, a former “chief of protocol” at the State Dep’t under the Reagan Administration.
According to Opensecrets.com, she has donated to Republican candidates over 100 times in the past few elections cycles. Her campaign contributions have gone to George W Bush, Fred Thompson, Arlen Spector, Rick Santorum, Jon Kyle, Elizabeth Dole, Bob Dole, Richard Shelby, John Warner,David Dreier, Olympia Snowe, Jon Fox and Christine Todd Whitman.
Other notable members on the Annenberg Board include:
1. David Kearns – former Deputy Secretary of Education under Bush I; former CEO of Xerox; Chairman of NASDC, a Bush I reform initiative for Education; WORKED FOR & DONATED TO McCAIN’S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IN 2000 AND AGAIN IN 2008.
2. Arnold Weber – former member of Nixon Administration; former President of Northwestern University and U of Colorado. Board Member of Tribune Company. DONATED TO McCAIN’S CAMPAIGN.
bago
Snopes biatch! Now go back to whatever cave you prefer.
Krista
@abo gato: That’s actually a really good idea. If they have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear, right? Besides, it’s not like anybody’s be telling the Secret Service what to do about these lunatics — they’re just pointing out that the lunacy is there, and then it’s up to them to decide if it’s worth monitoring.
When you think about it, the whole thing is damn ludicrous. Natalie Maines got death threats simply for saying that she was ashamed that W. was from Texas. And yet these right-wing lunatics are quite seriously inciting violence and treason, but we’re not allowed to call them on it, because that would be a suppression of their free speech? I know it goes without saying, but their hypocrisy is really breathtaking, isn’t it?
Death By Mosquito Truck
Oh Jesus not Snopes too.
Wile E. Quixote
Jesus BOB, would you just have the fucking balls to come out and admit that you’re a racist shithead and that you’re pissed off because the president is black? Seriously, the amount of contempt I feel for you would decrease slightly if you just came out and said “I hate nigras and the preznit’s a nigra so I hate the preznit!” instead of constantly barfing out all of this conspiratorial birther bullshit.
C’mon BOB, you’d be a lot happier if you admitted that you’re a racist and that you’re also a homosexual submissive who longs to be dominated by men in uniform (hence your constant bloviating about putting Sully Sullenberger in charge of everything).
Brick Oven Bill
Annenberg Foundation (ZuZu’s Fact Check) funds Bill Ayers efforts (ding ding ding, living room, ding ding ding, living room) to the tune of tens of millions. Annenberg is not exactly what one can call an objective third party to inspect birth certificates. He was one of ‘dem Jews’ whose successors in interest are presently keeping the President away from the good Reverend.
mclaren
D-chance shrieked:
Nonsense.
We’ve been through this before during Bill Clinton’s 2 terms as president, and we never got anywhere close to civil war. What we’re seeing today is exactly the same hysterical right-wing reaction, and it’s no more dangerous now than it was back in 1992 or 1994 or 1996.
Moreover, the eliminationist rhetoric has, if anything, decreased. Are you people suffering from Alzheimer’s? Doesn’t anyone else remember Ann Coulter proclaiming that ” … We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. … We don’t need any more” ?
Or how about Coulter’s explicit death threat that the only thing we need to discuss is to “debate the method of execution” of the NYTimes reporters who broke the warrantless wiretapping story?
But Coulter is now persona non grata on TV. After her high-water mark with her odious book “Treason,” in which she accused 50% of Americans of a capital crime, she has crawled back under her rock. Americans have tired of her hate speech.
The United States has got some serious problems, but these lone gun nuts and talk show kooks aren’t one of ’em. Even if every right-wing crackpot radio host in the country grabbed an AK-47 and went on a killing spree, it still wouldn’t threaten the foundations of American democracy.
The real threat to American democracy comes from Obama proposing to rip up the constitution by allowing “preventive detention,” thereby erasing amendments 4, 5, 6, and 8 of the constitution. That threatens America because it subverts the constitutions and destroys the rule of law under colour of authority. However, the way to deal that kind of threat it to discuss it openly, publicize the heinousness of Obama’s very bad idea, and sway public opinion by using reason and facts. In fact, that appears already to have been largely accomplished. I notice we haven’t heard any more about “preventive detention” after Russ Feingold blasted it as completely unconstitutional and the press accurately described Obama’s proposal as something out of the darkest days of Stalin’s Russia.
The way to deal with these far-right kooks screaming hate is to ignore them and let the FBI arrest them. Just as during the early 90s, the FBI is perfectly capable of dealing with domestic white supremists and murderous anti-abortion fanatics. We are nowhere near Civil War II. The more hysterical hate speech the Republican party howls, the more we should welcome it, because it turns more of America away from them.
During the dark days of the previous maladministration, we were in serious danger of another Civil War because we had a president who had not been elected acting with disregard for the rule of law. Today, we have a legitimately elected president acting like the only adult in the room. And when Obama makes ill-advised proposals, the press and public opinion smack him down hard and we move on.
As for the shrieks of violent kooks from the lunatic fringe, who cares? When they commit crimes, the FBI will arrest them — until then, they’re just marginalizing themselves even further.
Wile E. Quixote
@Ed in NJ
Bravo, and while you’re at it point out that Rupert Murdoch doesn’t have any ideology but making money. Sir Rupert was perfectly happy to get down on his knees and suck Chinese Communist dick in order to get permission for BSkyB to broadcast in mainland China and he was a huge booster of Tony Blair’s labor government. I’d love to see someone call Hannity on this, ask him how he likes working for a ChiCom tool who supported Tony Blair.
SFAW
bago –
We really need someone to check the kerning on that alleged Certification of Live Birth. It reminds me of some records I saw regarding George Soros (or maybe it was Michael Moore?) going AWOL from the TANG.
Maybe Dan Rather can investigate this? Or Hinderaker and the other guys at Blog of the Millennium?
Wile E. Quixote
@D Chance
I think that we could start off by pointing out how well Civil War I went for the South. They lost, the Confederacy was burned to the ground and they spent the next 100 years being a fucked up backwater. Admittedly Reconstruction ended too early, it shouldn’t have ended until about 1978, but the last time we had a Civil War it didn’t work out all that well for the people who started it. Maybe it’s time for me to write my rebuttal to Harry Turtledove’s Guns of the South, it’s going to be called Nukes of the North and it’s about a brave and intrepid group of time travellers who travel back to 1863 and give William Tecumseh Sherman tactical nuclear weapons for the March to the Sea.
I also notice McLaren is back, how long before he starts calling for everyone to non-violently storm through a hail of Secret Service bullets so we can drag Obama out of the White House and
lynchyell at him?Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
First of all, trollbreath, they were LINKS, plural. Not “link.”
Second, aside from the fact that the head of the Joint
Chiefs has NOT requested a copy of the birth certificate, he actually doesn’t need to make any such determination. Not only is it not his job to draw a legal conclusion on the eligibility of the POTUS, it IS his job to take orders from him until he is not the POTUS.
But thanks for demonstrating that there’s just no reasoning with a troll, no matter how much accurate information you put out there. He just repeats himself ad naseum.
mclaren
Thanks for telling your usual lies, Coyote. When you tell these kinds of ignorant and foolish lies, it makes it much easier to discredit you.
How long before you call for someone to shoot me down like a dog?
b-psycho
@Brick Oven Bill: So for biological reasons, you wouldn’t vote for someone who wasn’t born here if they were eligible.
What if they happened to be the candidate that lined up the most with your views?
Joseph Miller
Folks, it’s useless to argue with someone like BOB. He’s obviously a mentally unstable right-wing crank who’s veering toward the outright psychopath side of the line. BOB wouldn’t believe that Obama was an American citizen if you magically took him back in time to Honolulu, USA on 4 August 1961 and showed Obama’s mother giving birth to him. It doesn’t matter to BOB that my state (Hawaii) has produced the genuine Obama birth certificate and that it has been deemed valid by neutral observers. It doesn’t matter to BOB about the birth announcement in the Honolulu newspapers. It doesn’t matter that the FBI vets all presidential candidates. It doesn’t matter that trying to “fake” a birth certificate would be a matter of insane stupidity in this day and age. None of it matters. To a loser like BOB the only thing that matters is reducing Obama to an “Other”, someone that no “Real American” could support. BOB is simply a racist demagogue, and believe me, you can’t reason with them and you can’t argue with them. Trust me, I’ve tried.
mclaren
Why on earth are you people even bothering to respond to Brick Oven Bill?
Don’t feed the troll. Ignore him. He’ll go away.
Brick Oven Bill
My reason is the limitations of the Constitution, b-psycho. I was accused of not providing reason, so I included a little science stuff that the Founders might have used as motivation. But your question is a hypothetical as a first-generation American is not allowed to be President, so I cannot answer it.
…
You may be right about the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs ZuZus Petals. But I would argue that it is the job of the CINCs, as their duty to the Country is to only follow lawful orders and they have a fiduciary duty to the Citizens to know their orders are, in fact, lawful. There is enough of a question that this has to be in the back of their minds.
Zuzu's Petals
@SFAW:
Notice that he has no explanation for the link I provided him about the two separate birth announcements that appeared in Honolulu newpapers within ten days of Obama’s birth, and that show the same essentials as the COLB? And that were based not on family info, but on county and state info provided by the hospitals themselves.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
Of course you would argue that. Because you’re a troll.
And all orders given by the POTUS are lawful as to the authority under which they are given. Because he is POTUS. Get it?
(Of course even under your scenario you’d argue that hey, the guy was appointed by Obama…whaddya expect? !
Zuzu's Petals
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Fixing a broken link.
Cached…see Lori’s comment July 22, 2008, 9:36 PM
Scroll down here for similar birth announcement info.
Brick Oven Bill
He very much could have been born in Hawaii ZuZu, and this whole charade could be a political stunt to discredit critics of the Administration.
Or his mother, who was intelligent, could have known the legal status of her son and wanted to establish a paper trail to gain for him American Citizenship. Her family could have placed those birth notices for that purpose.
Neither one of us has any way of knowing one way or the other. Although as Citizens, I believe that we should. This could be accomplished in less than one hour.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
So you really didn’t even bother to follow the links. Which showed that the information for birth announcements was provided NOT by the family, but by the Dept of Vital Records, based on info provided to the registrar by the hospital.
Hint: notice at the top of the birth announcement column, where it says “Health Bureau Statistics”? Naw, that would be too much like actually reading it.
So actually, we DO “have a way of knowing.”
(I love the idea that his mother was “intelligent” enough to worry about his citizenship so much as to send fake information within a week of his birth but not “intelligent” enough to forgo traveling half way around the world to give birth in the first place.)
Grumpy Code Monkey
Of course, BOB remembers that there were similar concerns about McCain’s status as a natural-born citizen since he was born in Panama.
b-psycho
@Brick Oven Bill: I meant if they were no longer disqualified by the Constitution, so obviously it was a hypothetical. That was the point, I wanted to find out whether you’d still oppose a president who wasn’t born here if legally it didn’t matter.
Zuzu's Petals
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
And of course all the questions about GWB being an inflatable dummy could be settled “in less than an hour” too. What was he hiding?
Zuzu's Petals
Now for something really worthwhile.
Christiane Amapour (sp?) asking Achmadinnerjacket about the election (via press conference) on CNN.
Jaquestraw
Flakes,Flakes they lie and they’re lazy,they be driving you crazy.California’s got the most of them,swear they got a host of them…….lighten up people …love one another
Brick Oven Bill
This is where we get back to the Liberal Arts and our God-given Senses (sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste) to acquire knowledge ZuZu. We need to rely on these Arts and our Senses in these goofy times. One of our Senses is not the account of a Hawaiian newspaper employee named Dave Shapiro, who wasn’t there at the time, ‘but remembered how the process worked years later’.
There is no way of knowing who placed those announcements. Thus my simple and reasonable desire that the same certificate that was released for inspection by the Annenberg (Ayers) Group be released for inspection by truly independent agencies.
I have to go, thank you for the exchange of ideas.
Mike's America
@D-Chance.: Sounds to me like the real hatemongers and threats to the security of our freedom and democracy are coming directly from the people like you who simply cannot tolerate the fact that so many people do not share your warped view.
Your attitude is just the kind of lefty loner mentality that has sparked so much violence in the past.
Anyone remember Lee Harvey Oswald?
P.S. Tell ZuZu the “Mulatto” sent me!
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
I am really depressed. I had to order a copy of my birth certificate and instead I was sent a “Certificate of Live Birth”, not the birth certificate I know and love.
My copy of the original was a half-sheet of 8.5 x 11 (8.5 x 5.5), in which the title centered at the top said “State of Idaho” and the line under it said “Birth Certificate”. It was a white piece of paper full of information that could be easily copied and it would look just like the original, sans the notary seal.
Now I have this “Certificate of Live Birth” so I have no idea if I am even an American citizen! It is a very detailed document with all kinds of pretty colors and security features to prevent copying or fraudulent alterations, but it’s not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE! Nowhere on it does it say ‘birth certificate’.
I guess Obama and I are really furriners. How depressing.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Brick Oven Bill:
BoB, you stupid motherfucking fucker. You keep quoting this fucking stupid fucking shit without fucking acknowledging that none of this fucking applies to Obama’s mother, who was NOT a fucking naturalized citizen, with residence requirements to pass on her ACQUIRED citizenship to her son! She was fucking born here!! To parents who were fucking born here!! She HAD no “residence requirements” to pass on her NATURAL-BORN citizenship to her son!! Shut the fuck up, you ignorant, stupid, motherfucking fucking fucker!! JUST SHUT THE FUCKING FUCK UP!! !! !!
Jaquestraw
Arnold should start campaigning for 2012 and force the issue one way or another.I don’t believe that anybody truly believes Obama was born in Hawaii.Why has he not been asked directly were you born in Hawaii…….Or on the record ever saying I was born in Hawaii then we would have the “I did not have sex with that woman”moment all over again…..my toilet went crazy yesterday afternoon ,the plumber he said never flush a tampoon this great information cost me half a weeks pay and the toilet blew up the very next day…
Josh Hueco
When even Camille Paglia is appalled by talk radio, something’s gone wrong.
Little Dreamer
@Brick Oven Bill:
Obama wasn’t born abroad, he was born in Hawaii, a U.S. State since 1959.
Idiot!
TenguPhule
TenguPhule
Because this was a supersecret plan by aliens set up over four decades ago to smuggle a stealth Muslim into the Whitehouse.
If we had that kind of Timetravel ability, how the hell do you explain Bush not ending up as a used condom?
Little Dreamer
@mclaren:
Bullshit, Clinton wasn’t actually black, and his middle name wasn’t Hussein, and 9/11 hadn’t occurred yet. What we are seeing is NOT the same thing at all.
Jaquestraw
how the hell do you explain Bush not ending up as a used condom?
Maybe because the Bush family have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior have you?
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
Proof? Just because George W. Bush claims to be saved by the man who died and rose again 3 days later (yeah, right!) doesn’t mean the rest of his family has. Where is the proof of this? I’ve never heard any proof of this previously.
Zuzu's Petals
@Brick Oven Bill:
Right, and the word of the Dept of Vital Records itself is of no worth. Nor the actual column heading “Health Bureau Statistics.”
How about YOU provide a single shred of evidence that Honolulu newspaper birth announcements in 1961 were ever based on anything but information provided by the Dept of Vital Records.
Zuzu's Petals
@Elie:
And if you needed anymore proof…@100.
Zuzu's Petals
Well if there’s an slight uptick in trolls, it may be because good ol’ Mike backtracked my #65 to his execrable post and mentioned BJ and, get this … “Juan Cole.”
‘ Course given the number of readers over there, it shouldn’t be too bad.
Jaquestraw
Why is it there is not any record of the great ones grandmother,the one in Hawaii who raised him,ever having anything positive to say about Barry.Could it be she recognized some kind of personality defect,or that the guy is just some kind of an asshole a real P.O.S. I dont know but its one of those things that make you think.
Zuzu's Petals
Correction to #113: it wasn’t good ol’ Mike but one of his co-bloggers who left the link to my comment. And who mentioned “Juan” Cole.
Good ol’ Mike instead linked to D-Chance’s # 13, and posted the text along with his keen observation that it was an example of “the more imminent danger of left wing hate on display at that page.”
Talk about “playing into the wingnuts’ hands.”
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
WTF are you talking about? She went on tv and talked about her relationship with Obama and in it she didn’t disparage him at all.
Proof of this, along with proof that the Bushes have all accepted Jesus.
You’re looking like just another troll at this point.
Jaquestraw
Little dreamer are you are trying to become as good a liar as Obama. or just making this up as you go along.I dont get this whole troll thing WTF does that mean.
Anne Laurie
Which brings up an interesting point, Elie: According to his closest associates, James von Brunn “snapped” and attacked the guard at the Holocaust museum because his Social Security checks had been cut. Perhaps some timely assistance from one of the dread community organizers might have deterred him from attempting “suicide by cop”?
According to his family, Scott Roeder has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. If a respectable national health-care program had been available to support Roeder, rather than a handful of bitter anti-choice misogynists eager to encourage him to act out their end-time fantasies, would Dr. Tiller still be alive?
Maybe the best thing we can do to keep the Talibangelicals and fReichtards from destroying this country they hate is to support the social network that keeps the weakest & least stable among us from losing their grip?
Zuzu's Petals
@Jaquestraw:
Ummm, pie.
SFAW
W claimed he had accepted Jesus, but where’s the proof? Other than attending “church” once in awhile as Preznit, and then mostly for show, which denomination does he profess to be? Methodist? Baptist? Seventh Day Adventist? Mormon? (No, wait, that’s Romney – or so Romney claims.) Zoroastrian?
W’s “religion” was about as real as his “service” in TANG, kerning or no kerning.
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
No, I’m not making it up. I saw her on tv. I’m sorry, after more research I find it wasn’t an interview, it was a campaign ad, but she did not speak disparagingly about him at all.
FWIW, the woman spent her hours watching him on TV. She raised him for several years, for Christ’s sake. Barack Obama was her grandson. Your assertion is neither believable, nor can I find proof of it.
Where is your fucking proof that she didn’t support or believe in him?
If you don’t know what a troll is, you probably shouldn’t be here.
Zuzu's Petals
@Little Dreamer:
Well of course there’s this, from back in 2004;
InflatableCommenter
@Jaquestraw:
From what I hear, your grandmother says you are a child molestor and a heroin addict.
So who do I believe? You, or your dear grandmother?
Little Dreamer
@Zuzu’s Petals:
I didn’t see (I should say READ to be more accurate) that interview previously ZP, but, that just proves my point more. Thank you! ;)
jaquestraw is obviously a troll.
Jaquestraw
SFAW,
You should be more concerned with Obamas religousnicity.According to his Kenyan Granmother’s Priest.(yes He is a real Catholic Priest and yes She is the one on video rejoicing in the fact that he was born in her little Kenyan village way back when))Obama in 2005 contributed 1 million dollars to one of his 10 or so half brothers bid to run for President of Kenya.He went there and gave one of his typical hope and change speeches,The funny thing about this is his relative was a devout Muslim campaigning to bring Sharia law to this christian government.Thank God he lost but I am sure They will keep trying.Talk about a civil war.I am sorry if My believing in salvation through Jesus Christ offends you,but I do, and I know the church Obama attended for 20 years does not.
Zuzu's Petals
@Little Dreamer:
I’ll just bet s/he likes pie.
Ellid
To quote President Kennedy on or about November 22nd, 1963:
“We’re heading into nut country now.”
Seriously. If there’s another incident, and it involves the President or any member of his family, Limbaugh, Gingrich, Palin, et al., will ultimately be to blame. The rhetoric against liberals has been escalating from nasty to shrill to poisonous to verging on treason ever since Reagan’s election.
I fear for the future.
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
Get the fuck out of here, troll!
Your only purpose here is to spread lies and hate. Fuck off!
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
If you believe in Jesus Christ, I think he told you “judge not, lest ye be judged also” so why don’t you listen to him?
Zuzu's Petals
@Little Dreamer:
Not doing a very good job, either. I mean, one should try to be just a LITTLE BIT credible, wouldn’t ya think?
InflatableCommenter
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Next to heroin, I think he loves him some pie.
Little Dreamer
@Zuzu’s Petals:
One would think, but trolls don’t think, they just shit all over the place.
Zuzu's Petals
@InflatableCommenter:
Yum…pie!
Little Dreamer
@Zuzu’s Petals:
I’m still thinking of the wonderful seafood TZ and I ate last night and today (we had dinner at a restaurant we discovered a few weeks ago and went back for lunch). Yum! Calamari, Crab cakes, Mussels… the largest and most tender scallops I ever ate. OMG, it was heavenly! The mojitos were pretty good too. ;)
Weren’t they good TZ? Let’s go back soon!
Yutsano
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
lolwut? No really, I’m sitting here eating pizza and laughing. No really. Evidence that sucker or shut the hell up.
Jaquestraw
blah blah blah …inflatable commenter…zuzu and little dreamer i really dont like to be condescending but you 3 a re a bunch of immature,little punk cowards who hurl insults from behind your keyboards,go instigate and agitate someone else.
Bender
Break out the Depends for the Loony Lefties!
I remember when openly wishing for the deaths of the President and VP was the highest form of patriotic dissent.
Wonder what changed?
Now, if you don’t get the knee-pads out for The Zero!, you’re a dangerous potential terrorist who probably, according to Krazy Leon Panetta, wants the US to get attacked again.
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
Where’s your proof? And why are you not adhering to Jesus’ admonitions against judging others if you believe in him and believe he is your personal savior?
Your assertions are not looking very credible at this point, if you want others to believe you, you need to come up with proof.
Yutsano
So growled the troll from underneath his bridge.
Little Dreamer
@Bender:
Lefties are not the “they’re going to take my gun away” party. Think about that.
If people were saying they wished Bush and Cheney would die (or fail), these people were not a majority, or in any position to influence others to go out and kill them (or somehow affect their ability to perform their duties). Limbaugh, Hannity and others on the right have that ability.
Many of us didn’t want Bush or Cheney dead, nor would we say it was a good thing if that had happened. You are equating completely different things.
Yutsano
FWIW I never wished Cheney dead. I figured his bad ticker was gonna end up doing that long before anyone else could.
Little Dreamer
@Bender:
Excuse me for popping your balloon, but, Limbaugh has stated several times that he wants Barack Obama to fail, and even went as far recently as to state that if Al Qaeda wants to bring America down they had better hurry up because Obama is doing a great job of it himself.
If you have a problem with people stating that righties want the country to be attacked again, perhaps you should be writing to Limbaugh.
InflatableCommenter
@Little Dreamer:
Yes let’s. Who imagined such great seafood in a small town in the middle of the Arizona mountains?
Your hunch was gold.
Little Dreamer
@InflatableCommenter:
I seem to have a knack for finding your favorite restaurants. ;)
Jaquestraw
OK non believers here is some great evidence for you to dispute.I believe it.go to you tube and watch this video:Obama – Muslims Admit Cousin’s ‘Islamification’ Pact
InflatableCommenter
@Jaquestraw:
Okay, out of curiosity, I went and looked at your stupid video.
There’s a few minutes of my life I can never get back.
Hey, you know what, I have a half brother who became a Buddhist. Does that make me half Buddhist?
Careful, this is a trick question.
Little Dreamer
I searched that title, I got nothing, link it.
ETA: Nevermind, I got it.
This isn’t about Obama, this is about someone else?
What is your point? What does this have to do with Obama?
InflatableCommenter
@Little Dreamer:
5683 knacks, in fact.
InflatableCommenter
@Little Dreamer:
Here ya go LD.
Jaquestraw
You 3 are either democratic operatives or mindless followers of the antichrist either way you are scary stupid
Kilkee
I sense an infestation of trolls brought here from the link to Mike’s America. Some may be legitimately nuts, based on that site, others simply playing the game. Don’t feed either.
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
So you’re saying you believe in guilt by association? I hope no one in your family or friends has ever gotten so much as a parking ticket, because otherwise, by your standards, you’re just as guilty as they are for whatever infraction may have occurred.
asiangrrlMN
@Elie: I agree with you, Elie. Most of the people who are exhibiting this kind of behavior really can’t grasp that things have changed and the country has moved on. Their reaction is to, yes, cling more desperately to their Bibles and their guns. I think we do, as a society, need to put societal pressure on the far-rightwingnutters to STFU. This is only going to get worse.
@abo gato: This is actually a good idea. The more cases the Secret Service has documented, the better.
@Little Dreamer:
Once again, you said what I was thinking. This is worse. I also was amazed that Obama made it into the White House without any attempt on his life.
InflatableCommenter
Got me, I am a big Antichrist fan.
Now, Jerry Falwell said the Antichrist was alive in America, and that he was a jew.
According to Al Franken, it was surely Marvin Hamlisch. But this was unconfirmed.
Personally, I thought it was Larry King at one point. What do you think?
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
The book of Revelation 22:16 states that Jesus is the bright and morning star (compare to Isaiah’s description of Lucifer in Isaiah 14), so obviously it is YOU who follows the so-called antichrist (and since you insist on not listening to the admonitions Jesus gave you to not judge others, I think we have more proof).
Have a great day now, k? ;)
Jaquestraw
I not a judgmental person in fact the opposite.It upsets me to see people especially Americans not see or ignore the threat to personal freedom sharia law represents.Supporting or being accepting of this kind of ideology concerns me.And to you little dreamer please don’t attempt to tell me what or who I should and shouldn’t listen too.
Little Dreamer
You’re not a judgmental person, you just want to pile on Barack Obama and say he means to institute Sharia law because of some guilt by association that has absolutely NOT A FUCKING THING to do with Barack Obama.
No, you’re not a judgmental person at all… tell me another one.
HRA
This onslaught of trolls has given me a headache.
1. Hospitals forward the vital statistics of newborns to the local Vital Statistics Bureau where the are provided to the local newspapers for printing in the column under Recent Births.
2. Obama was born in the US. (period)
3. The Kenyan grandmother no doubt was speaking of the other Barack Obama being born there to the reporter. The other Barack Obama is our president’s father. What you would need to know is how the question was translated to her.
A few years ago I had misplaced my Canadian birth certificate. TG I found it recently. It’s a plastic card. No doubt it is a copy. I failed in my attempt to get another copy earlier even though I had inquired in Ottawa, the hospital where I was born and the Canadian consul in the US. I finally got a copy of my baptismal certificate from a church in Detroit to prove I was born in Canada. The problem is someone screwed up my proper name and my last name at the bureau and the errors were corrected before my parents and I came to the US as permanent residents.
TenguPhule
It upsets me too. So when does Operation “rescue” get treated as the sharia operation that it is?
Little Dreamer
@HRA:
I know, I really should learn how to stop poking them with sticks, but it’s always so much fun to watch them lie and obfuscate. One of these days I’ll tire of them, perhaps.
Yutsano
It’s more fun when they try. Or when they try to be stealthy like ninja. Spoof trolls are always good for a chuckle.
Jaquestraw
Little dreamer let me get this right you are getting bent out of shape over a corrupt politician who happened to make it all the way to the white house.I dont care what someone does in their personal life, but these scumbag politicians happen to have an impact on my and everyone else’s life so I will pass judgement on them.and since you asked me to tell you another one.Tell me Are you sure you are not jealous of Larry Sinclair.
Yutsano
Dude are you off your meds or something? LARRY FUCKING SINCLAIR??? The guy who couldn’t even pass the lie detector and then got called out? I offically declare you EPIC FAIL and I hope John gets around to banning you sometime after Entourage ends.
Jaquestraw
I believe him Yutsano.and dont get your little undesirable nuts in an uproar I was just passing by said all I wanted to say.I have no desire to spend any more time with you nerds.You can get the moderator to delete all my posts so nobody will discover all these things being alleged about the great one..Have a nice life
Elie
Annie Laurie @ 118
Very true…our absent community and mental health network continues to reveal itself. However, even in its absence we can continue to reach out and document where and when we see this — as you document, Brunn’s(?) /Roeder (?) lifelong paranoid schizophrenia manipulated by others in the absense of adequate treatment…sigh — this is the scourge that is laid upon our failure to have this — to be able to stand as the peaceful community — as the last line states in Romeo and Juliet – “All are punished”…
Zuzu — another sigh @ 100. Its such a trap — so easily set and fallen into by even the most well meaning. They cannot touch our dreams except if we give them the means and then we end up living their nightmare.
But how about those Iranians! Wow! We will see what happens but it is clear that many are not willing to just take it anymore — the first steps..
Yutsano
Ha, you don’t get off that easy. Your buffoonery shall remain intact for all to see. It’s nice to know you believe a mentally ill individual whose store has holes in it the size of Swiss cheese, but hey, you also believe a guy who got nailed to some wood for saying people should be nice to each other for a change.
Little Dreamer
Ummm, didn’t you just tell me you’re not a judgmental person? Hmmm.
Larry who? Sorry, I don’t know who you are talking about. Not sure I should waste my time googling, but perhaps I’ll check it out for a moment.
I’m talking about a corrupt politician? You are now judging Barack Obama as corrupt? Where did this come from? Proof. Let me guess, he’s from Chicago, so obviously he’s guilty by association, right?
Ya know what? My favorite congressman hails from Illinois too, and I don’t see any reason to believe Dick Durbin is corrupt either (that Burris guy on the other hand, he seems to have been bought off by Blago).
Where is your proof that Obama is corrupt? You had better have damned good proof to back that up.
Little Dreamer
It’s very rare for posts to get deleted around here. If you don’t want your words to stand, don’t put them on this blog.
Yutsano
No point, he already confessed to being a drive-by fReeptard. Although maybe he’ll be obsessive enough to return one of these days. Y’know, when he needs his masochism fix or something.
Little Dreamer
OMG, I forgot about that crazy loon.
Conspiracy Theory much Jaquestraw? But you’re not a judgmental person.
You’re a riot. You should take this show on the road, you could get great laughs in comedy houses.
Yutsano
I think he should at least end with, “Thank you, I’ll be here all week, try the veal and don’t forget to tip your waitress!”
Jaquestraw
How come you keep asking me questions.I didnt make this shit up.Everything I stated can be found on you tube.
Have you ever heard of judicial watch the non partisan political watchdog group they only deal with facts. I dont know you guys really seem to have a problem with them.They have numerous cases in court uncovering Obamas corrupt ways and if you want to get some religion go see reverend Manning at the Manning report.What happened to Obamas campaign promise about an administration with no lobby ties.Thats where he lost me and my open mind. With his never ending parade of corrupt scumbags.What makes you believe he is any different then them?yes its guilt by association.Now I have to go I think you guys might actually be starting to like me or something.
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
You really are a riot. Judicial Watch is non-partisan? Are you serious? They get funding from the Scaife foundation. They got involved in the Schiavo situation and took a position that I would not call admirable. (note: the proprietor of this site changed his political stance based on the Republican’s crazy antics in the Terri Schiavo case – you’d do well to not remind him of that).
You’re a troll, and you stink at trying to describe what we on the left should believe in. You also talk out of both sides of your mouth, lie, rely on questionable sources and are an absolute moron about all things democratic.
Go back to your freeper cell. The second season premier of one of my favorite shows is coming on soon and I see much more value in spending time watching that than listening to your nonsense.
The only thing I like about you is how you get even more ridiculous each time I poke the stick.
Jaquestraw
I will be watching the Rev.Manning on you tube.People like you little dreamer turn me off.I guess I should be afraid of you and the proprietor now
Little Dreamer
@Jaquestraw:
Go get your fucking religion from You Tube. Hahaha, you crack me up.
Yutsano
Waitaminute…all this time you’ve been FLIRTING??? You’re more whacked than I thought dude! Lay down the crack pipe, no really.
Little Dreamer
@Yutsano:
Hmmm, is that flirting? I thought it was hatemongering and lying. Didn’t come off as flirting to me.
Zuzu's Petals
Jaquestraw:
Raspberry, strawberry, lemon and lime .. I love me some pie !
Zuzu's Petals
@Kilkee:
Sorry everybody!
And yep, like Anne Laurie says, just starve the little varmits out.
InflatableCommenter
@Jaquestraw:
I liked you better when you were just myiq2xu.
gwangung
Um, why are we rewarding such incompetence in trollery?
Jaquestraw
Because you assholes who think you are so smart might not be so smart after all gwangung.go read a book or something paranoid nerds
Zuzu's Petals
Shorter Jaquestraw.
SFAW
Jacqueoff –
You’ve said (or “sed”, for you) that you were going to leave, and yet here you are.
So, in addition to being incredibly stupid and naive for “believing” the stuff you claim to “believe”, you’re also a liar. (Well, actually, you’ve been lying or delusional most of the time you’ve been here, but so it goes.) But it’s now becoming clear that you’re not a real troll; you’re a parody troll, doing your level best to sound like a caricature of the stupidest and craziest right-wingers out there. And you’ve succeeded! Beyond your wildest dreams.
So, like Rocky Marciano, it’s time for you to retire undefeated. Please don’t let the door hit you in the ass when you leave.
[On the off-chance that you really mean everything you’ve been writing: better toddle off to hear what your drug-addled pederast God-king, Limbaugh, has for today’s Two Minute Hate. That way you’ll have new-and-improved insane talking points with which to bless us.]
SFAW
Unfortunately for you, we ARE so smart – at least when compared with your parody troll persona (PTP). But then again, there’s a rock in my front yard which is smart compared to your PTP, so I guess the bar is set kinda low.
But what book would your PTP like us to read? “The Pet Goat”? One hopes we wouldn’t freeze up, the way your religiousnicity-king W did when we were under attack.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Fix’t.
Jaquestraw don’t know Jaqueshit.
Jaquestraw
I am trying to understand your logic and I am finding it to be a real eye opener.I am curious though little dreamer,SFAW ,DougL Are you perhaps school teachers….. wannabe school teachers or just plan on getting some kind of useless job where you just suck up a taxpayer funded paycheck with a taxpayer funded retirement plan like some kind of parasite.Because you are so smart.
Bender
What — like equating “too bad they didn’t kill Cheney in Iraq” to Limbaugh hoping that Obama doesn’t turn the US into a failed socialist state (as if it’s not already too late)?
I know a place where you can get your irony-meter fixed.
Little Dreamer
@Bender:
People are allowed to have an opinion. People who don’t go on national radio influencing hate for their employment don’t have the kind of pull you think they do.
I find it quite interesting that you didn’t denounce Limbaugh.
Zuzu's Petals
Shorter Bender.
SFAW
Amazingly enough, real trolls DO understand it – they just disagree. Parody trolls keep up the “I’m too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time” facade, as you persist in doing. You just keep on proving my point, bless your tiny little brain.
THAT explains why you are the way you are – you thought teachers were parasites, and you’d be damned if you’d make their lives easier by actually paying attention to anything in class or learning anything. Or reading a book. Or studying – anything. You sure showed ’em – your cunning plan has succeeded beyond your wildest expectations.
Me be a teacher? Not likely – for every TWO students working hard at learning whatever they can, there’s someone like you (well, your PTP) saying “I’m not gonna learn nuthin’, and you can’t make me!” to cancel out those good students. It’s analogous to the old saying: One “awshit” wipes out a million “attaboys”. And you ain’t one of the attaboys.
I would normally write, “Why, thank you! How nice of you to notice!” But since it is obvious your PTP doesn’t really understand the concept of someone being smart, I’ll just sob quietly in a corner. Oh, the shame!
Jaquestraw
@Little wienner,
Dick Durbin should be well on his way to the big house.Martha Stewart did time for way less than what he did.
But I’m sure your Supreme leader will get somebody to quash it.
Zuzu's Petals
Jacquestraw said:
A delicious banana cream pie, topped with sliced bananas and whipped cream or whipped topping.
INGREDIENTS:
* 1/2 cup sugar
* 1/4 cup cornstarch
* 1/4 teaspoon salt
* 2 cups milk
* 3 egg yolks, slightly beaten
* 1 tablespoon butter
* 1 teaspoon vanilla
* 1 baked 9-inch pie pastry shell
* 4 to 5 ripe but firm bananas
* sweetened whipped cream
PREPARATION:
Combine the sugar, cornstarch, and salt in top of double boiler. Gradually add milk, mixing well. Cook over rapidly boiling water until thickened, stirring constantly. Continue cooking and stirring for 10 minutes longer. Stir a small amount of the hot mixture into the beaten egg yolks then return back to the hot mixture in the pan. Cook for 1 minute longer. Remove from heat. Add butter and vanilla to the filling then let cool thoroughly. Cover the bottom of the prepared cooled pie shell with a small amount of cooled filling. Peel bananas and slice into the pie shell. Cover with remaining filling. Garnish top with sliced bananas, arranged overlapped in a circle about an inch in from the edge. Top with a mound of sweetened whipped cream or whipped topping in center of pie.
SFAW
Ah, yes, the old “my argument continues to make no fucking sense, so I’ll just bring up some other random bullshit point, which I’m too stupid to understand anyway” tactic.
Which would be a totally awesome name for a rock band, if it weren’t so f’ing long..
And what the hell does Diana Ross have to do with Dick Durbin?
I have to commend you: every time we think you’ve reached the limit of insanity, you just keep pushing the envelope. Your insanity amp must go up to 11. Kewl!!!
Jaquestraw
cette moi