This sounds like something out of a bad movie, but apparently a load of people in Florida were convicted of crimes and jailed for years on end based on the supernatural powers of a dog and its handler. You know where this is going, don’t you? It was a load of nonsense, and now many of the men are being released three decades later after DNA tests clear them.
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[…] (Via Balloon Juice.) […]
The Moar You Know
Wholly OT: The Pam Anderson ad has finally triggered my threshold of disgust. Godammit, she is gross. What’s it gonna take to get that thing off my screen?
Eric U.
Is the handler going to jail for fraud?
OT: I agree, Pam has to go
Ash
I think we can now confirm that the st00pidest people in Umurika reside in Florida.
The Moar You Know
On topic: Just read the article and that is fucking outrageous. That a jury, even a jury comprised of whatever senile old people could be pried away from their teevees that week, sent people to prison based on the belief that a dog that could supposedly pick up a scent trail six months old is fucking incredible, and makes me weep for America.
My bet: every defendant is black. I’ll be shocked if that’s not the case.
asiangrrlMN
@Eric U.: I highly doubt it. It didn’t sound like anyone in Florida was too concerned about this gross miscarriage of justice.
@The Moar You Know: Yes. This. Stupid. Jury of my peers, my ass.
Phoebe
I hope this is going straight to civil court with tons and tons of publicity, but it probably won’t.
Hey, watch this:
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/murder_sunday/
available on the netflix.
InflatableCommenter
I’ll treat this as an open thread and say …
Barack Obama is making a hell of a speech to the AMA right now. Mighty smackdown of the opposition to healthcare reform.
Take the time to find this speech online later and listen to it, if you aren’t hearing it live.
Skepticat
Justice probably isn’t the word we’re looking for here.
Warren Terra
It’s like the famous Wire interrogation scene, but used on dumb judges and juries instead of suspects – although probably effective against suspects as well; I don’t doubt that some people might have copped a plea when faced with such strong, proven “evidence” against them.
Ash
@InflatableCommenter: He sounds angry. Well…as “angry” as Obama can sound.
jamie
Wow,unbelievable.Glenn Greewald, from Salon,said it best when he commented that there are two systems of justice, one for the rich,and one for everybody else. America is quickly becoming a second rate nation….wait we’re already there,how about a third rate ?
El Cid
Are they going to call the dogs back on the stand for cross examination in the appeal?
sarah
excessively alliterative headlines get under my skin. why does the news have to be so cutsie?
cgp
Bill H
I was on a jury about a year ago, guy accused of bringing drugs across the border hidden in the bed of a pickup truck. He claimed it was a friend’s truck and he didn’t know about the drugs. He was dumber than a sack of rocks, and the prosecutor gave no evidence whatever that he actually knew about the drugs. I personally thought he did, but the prosecuter presented nothing other than, “Oh, come on, how could he not know.”
One of the things in testimony was that he had been hanging out in a tavern in the morning, where he met the friend who asked him to drive the truck.
Ten of us agreed the prosecutor had faild to produce a shred of evidence that the guy knew about the drugs. One person wanted to convist because she agreed with the prosecutor, “How could he not know.” The12th guy was voting guilty because, “The guy was in a bar in the morning, which means he’s an alcoholic. I’m an alcoholic, been sober for almost a year now. I know how alciholics work. They hang out in bars in the morning and they transport drugs.”
If I ever have to stand trial I’m going to waive a jury trial and take my chances on the judge.
Dexter Morgan
@Skepticat:
In the dog’s defense his name was “Harass” not “Justice.”
tavella
Well, one was Cuban (which does not, of course, mean they couldn’t be black.)
On an unrelated note, the NY face-slasher is back with the Democrats.
demimondian
@The Moar You Know: Worse, John, I’m going to need to install an ad-blocker. The ad is NSFW.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
If the dog is cute, then that’s all the evidence your average jury will need to convict. Who’s going to take the word of some slimeball defendant and his sleazeball lawyer against the word of an adorable doggie? Who would do that, who doesn’t hate America?
John Cole
It is the same damned ad that has been there for a month. How did it all of a sudden become NSFW?
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
So was the handler blatantly and consciously in a conspiracy to railroad the accused, or was this Clever Hans all over again?
trojannite90
What is wrong with Florida? Seriously……
The overwhelming majority of screwed up stories come from that state. It is almost like a black hole of bizareness.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
John, I see the ad only at work (IE8, no ad-blockers instead of my home install of FireFox and associated protectors). It is pretty damn gross, and I avoid browsing this site at work any more, even at lunch.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Scruffy McSnufflepuss: Shit! Look what a cute doggie did to Cole and all the drooling going on here in the commentariat at BJ. Jesus Babbling Christ it could have happened right here from among this group after reading the Lily threads.
InflatableCommenter
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Hey, don’t knock it. I have learned a lot here about how to pick up doggie stool.
The Grand Panjandrum
@InflatableCommenter: I wasn’t knocking it so much as pointing out the obvious irony. But, yeah, this is definitely the place to ask a question about almost any topic and get a comprehensive data set and save yourself from a bunch of research.
demimondian
@John Cole: It’s been NSFW for a month, too. What has changed is the platform on which I’m viewing BJuice.
geg6
I’m starting to think that there aren’t enough functioning neurons in the entire Sunshine State to make up a parakeet brain. Juries actually took this shit seriously and convicted people on this? And now that the massive stupidity has been revealed, it’s up to the wrongly convicted to make the case that the magic dog was wrong? I love America, but too many Americans are worthy of nothing but my disdain.
Warren Terra
Didn’t John claim a couple of weeks ago that the horrible Pam Anderson ad had gotten approved without his knowledge and would be disappearing once its contract was up, in a short time?
What happened?
And if the animal rights folks sponsoring the ad want to use a cheesecake picture, I guess that’s a proven advertising strategy, but usually it involves an attractive picture; the Pam Anderson photo they use is just extraordinarily repulsive.
InflatableCommenter
@The Grand Panjandrum:
BJ. It’s the New Google.
The Moar You Know
@John Cole: Others may be having an NSFW issue; since I’m the IT guy here that’s not exactly a problem.
I don’t want to use Adblock because…I can’t, running Opera.
Not to mention that the more widespread AdBlocker becomes, the less willing companies and individuals are going to be to pay for ad space. I’d like to not deprive you of your revenue stream if I can help it, John.
The issue is that Pam Anderson’s basketball-sized hooters have finally crossed the threshold of what I can take. I like breasts and all, but damn, that ad is just disgusting.
The ad refers to the “sexy Pam Anderson video”. I think I’d find a video of open-heart surgery more sexy than that ad.
Captain Goto
Very OT, but more fun:
Penguins’ victory parade, streaming live.
http://www.wpxi.com/video/19755858/index.html
Dexter Morgan
@The Moar You Know: That third arm coming out of her abdomen(?) is pretty f-in’ creepy, too.
Surly Duff
It was that damnable Turner and Hooch movie that made the juries believe in special police canine units. If that dog could save Tom Hank’s life, why couldn’t this other dog track criminals down regardless of time and evidence.
Makes perfect sense to me. If you actually watched “Turner and Hooch” or “K-9” with Jim Belushi, you might be singing a different tune.
jrg
It’s been documented that dogs often share traits with their owners. My dog, for example, has shaggy hair and likes M&Ms. Cop dogs, on the other hand, believe they have superpowers and lie their asses off in court.
Some of you may question this theory, but I’ve tested it. Go home and ask your dog in a high-pitched voice: “Do police doggies lie in court? Who’s my sweet poochie?” If the dog wags it’s tail, you have no choice but to concede that I am correct.
Max Peck
@trojannite90:
It’s full of people that moved there to get away from the rest of the country. Crazy prefers to group with crazy. I bet it’s alot like Phoenix too where the only people who show up to cast votes concerning the future of the city or state are people who will be dead in a few years.
Cap'n Phealy
They should call the dog Shithead. [/thejerk]
NR
Wait. The article says that one person was freed after 27 years in prison. How could this dog possibly still be alive after 27 years?
The Grand Panjandrum
OT: I know it has been mentioned that the MSM should be given credit when due. What about William Kristol:
I am fucking stunned and props to Kristol.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
Only the good die young, NR.
EconWatcher
Bill H.:
As a former criminal defense lawyer, I can tell you that as a defendant, you are almost always better off with a jury than a judge, even if the judge is a purported liberal, and even if the jury is made up of illiterate, knuckle-dragging troglodytes. Why?
Because the problem with judges is, they’re used to it all. They’re much too used to it. From the judge’s point of view, here you have the usual guy sitting in the usual defendant’s chair facing charges that the judge has heard a hundred times before. So the judge is heavily predisposed to the “usual” result, namely conviction.
With a jury–if you have a decent lawyer–you have some chance of getting them to stop and think of you as an individual. Most of them are a little bit nervous and uncomfortable making a momentous decision about someone else’s life (unlike a judge, who does it multiple times per day), and this hesitation is good for a defendant. A lawyer can build upon it to help the jurors come to a reasonable doubt.
The only exception I can think of is when you have a particularly racially charged case, you know the jury pool is likely to be biased, and you have some reason to believe the judge won’t be. I was in such a situation once and waived jury trial, with happy results. But this is the very rare case. (Almost) ironclad rule: go with the jury. And of course, make sure you have a lawyer who has actually tried and won a lot of criminal cases.
Grumpy Code Monkey
Thank God for Florida, otherwise Texas would be the most retarded state in the union.
gnomedad
@John Cole:
Defense fail.
Tsulagi
@The Moar You Know:
Yeah, but I’d like the mystery of the third arm cleared up before she goes. At one point glanced at the ad thinking she looked like a really hung pre-op.
jrg
The linked article to the Orlando Sentinel says the dog has since retired. I assume it is dead by now.
NR
@jrg: Yeah, I think I understand now. The article is a bit confusing; at first glance, it seems to suggest that the defendants were freed soon after the dog was discredited. But apparently that’s not the case–they spent many more years in prison after that, which just makes the whole situation even more fucked up.
jake 4 that 1
This is one step. One very small step. More like a bump in the floor, above poking a defendant with a special retractable pin and saying that if he doesn’t feel a prick, HE’S A WITCH!
Rosali
Hey, just one minute. I resemble those “Floridians are stupid” remarks.
anonevent
@Grumpy Code Monkey: At least here in Dallas the DA is allowing defendants to clear their name through DNA evidence.
anonevent
@The Grand Panjandrum: Frame it, you may not see it again. I suspect Bill was haunted by his dad recently.
Third Eye Open
@geg6: Alright, I get it. Yes, Everyone, Florida is a horrible and disturbing marsh, just languishing from the underbelly of America. It is a horribly frenetic cauldron of culture that is in many ways internally antagonistic. Our bugs grow to the size of your head, and we don’t speek a real good inlish.
This place is such a shit-hole that I think it imperative that you repatriate all your parents and grandparents, immediately.
KTHANx(oxo)
InflatableCommenter
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Damn, somebody call the police. Some reasonable person has hit Kristol over the head, tied him up, thrown him in the closet … and is writing under his name.
Shocking.
(and heartening).
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
@jrg:
Maybe, maybe not. If it’s got super-powers, immortality could be one of them.
Maybe he retired to pursue a career as a beer mascot or taco mascot or something.
The Grand Panjandrum
@anonevent: @InflatableCommenter: Thought I’d post it to get on Jane “The Heater” Coale’s good side. You never know when you might need to cash in a goodwill chit.
JGabriel
The Moar You Know:
Has anyone else ever clicked on it? Sometimes I run through the ads to generate some revenue for John.
Turns out it links to a video calling for a boycott of KFC.
.
Face
Lemmie rewrite this so it jives with reality:
“WHITE juries actually took this shit seriously and convicted Scary Black Negroids on this”.
Welcome to Florida…..likely North Florida.
asiangrrlMN
@The Grand Panjandrum: It is commendable. However, as Steve Brenen points out over at The Washington Monthly, what Kristol wants the president to do is to press for an international review of the election. Read the section entitled, Kristol’s Advice to Conservatives.
Still, at least in writing, Kristol toned it down for once.
P.S. Washington Monthly is a link. Apparently, adding italics to it hides its linkiness.
Brachiator
@trojannite90:
It’s not just Florida. A lot of people on juries assume the following:
1. That if the police arrest a person, he or she must have done something.
2. That evidence collected by police is always valid.
3. That evidence presented by the prosecution is always valid.
4. That defense attorneys only exist to obfuscate and poke holes in the prosecution case. Unless the defendant is a cop.
5. That any nonwhite defendant is probably guilty (especially pre 1960s cases).
Some one asked how many of the defendants were black.
I wonder how many of the juries were all-white, especially since some of the cases go back a number of years.
Tom Betz
Two NYPD drug cops just got arrested after they destroyed two honest Dominican guys’ lives by busting them for cocaine distribution. Unfortunately for the cops, the club where they were busted had video surveillance cameras showing that the narcs’ stories were pure bullshit.
Now the city is facing a ten million dollar lawsuit. The Domincans deserve a hell of a lot more money than that.
Kirk Spencer
The Pamela ad…
OK, I did a bit of research. As I already knew, the ad is a PETA ad – it’s to the ‘they’re killing chickens in an inhumane manner’ ad on which Anderson is the speaker.
The ‘third arm’ picture is from a protest of three or so years ago. Anderson was one of a handful of women, then in the UK, who stripped (down to undies, not total nudity) while behind the banner, using it to hide the bits that get you arrested for exposure. The third arm belongs to another person who, due to cropping, you cannot see.
You can see several pictures at this blogsite. (Possible NSFW warning.)
edited to add: THIS is the picture from which the add is cropped.
AhabTRuler
OTOH, no one could have predicted:
I’m shocked, I say, shocked by this development!
@Kirk Spencer: Sometimes you just gotta keep walking.
jrg
Good point, Mr. McSnufflepuss.
It should also be noted that even if the dog is “dead”, that does not mean it lost all of it’s crime-fighting abilities. It’s body might still be a vessel for justice.
adolphus
I’ve served on three different juries, one criminal (murder) and two civil (car accidents) and have to say that I think all three trials went fairly well and I have a stronger belief in our system than I did before. The jurors were relatively intelligent regardless of education levels and took their tasks very seriously and came to sound conclusions. (In the civil trials that meant that nobody went home happy.)
Of course, that was before I moved to Florida…
Phoebe
PETA! They really ARE terrorists.
asiangrrlMN
@adolphus: I had a different view point after sitting in the jury pool for a crim sex assault trial. It really was appalling what the attorneys were asking, as well as that the defense attorney, himself, was currently charged for a crim sex misdemeanor (I hadn’t remembered that until later). I was disgusted by what the attorneys were looking for–which was sheer ignorance. We were each asked if we’d been the victim of a sex crime, and then we had to describe what it was. One man said yes, and others laughed at him. Laughed! When the attorney got to me, I said yes, but I refused to elaborate. The judge said I didn’t have to answer as, “We are quite clear as to the opinions of Ms. _____.”
It was really, really, really grotesque.
InflatableCommenter
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Good idea. I’ve heard of goodwill chits, but I have never actually had one .
Heh.
Tonal Crow
Um, it’s long past time to put real science into the courtroom. If a prosecutor attempts to introduce “expert evidence” that is not substantiated by peer-reviewed research, she ought to hear the following:
Ms. Defense: Objection, you honor: insufficient foundation because not peer-reviewed.
Judge: Sustained. Ms. Prosecutor, citizens give you great power on the understanding that you will pursue justice, not simply attempt to obtain convictions. “Expert” supposition is not a substitute for real science, and will not be allowed in my courtroom.
Also, judges need to give instructions that clearly communicate that the prosecution must prove every element of its case “beyond a reasonable doubt” — and that clearly communicate what that means.
Deborah
Does this mean Lily can’t work up to being a caped defender of justice, with a mask and a big “L” on her chest?
As for the other thread topic: I’ve been concerned that Pamela appears to have three arms in that ad, but I’m frankly afraid to click through and figure out where the other arms are coming from.
Blue Raven
And I remember seeing complaints about it from day one. If I were the type to spend more bandwidth remarking on the ads here, I’d have been asking why PETA even gets space here when it’s been happening for months. However, I know you’re just in a certain ad network and PETA buys space in said network. It’s the ad network that has the problem.
geg6
Third Eye Open: As is true of almost everything, the exceptions prove the rule. First, I have no parents or grandparents and even when I did, they never moved nor ever had any desire to move to Florida. So I take no blame for the idiots up here who chose to invade you state and amp up the homegrown stupid there. Second, I have actually spent quite a lot of time in FL because my sister lived there 12 years (and has since moved back). In addition, my ex’s parents were from Panama City, so I know that there is a lot of crazy there, having experienced it for about 20 years. And, third, Carl Hiaason agrees with me. So there. ;-)
The Grand Panjandrum
@InflatableCommenter: Neither have I but I thought I’d give it a shot.
Da Bomb
I think this situation is the reason, I sit on the fence about capital punishment. I mean, if this is the basis of evidence that was used to convict innocent people in Florida, how many more innocent people have been convicted on shotty evidence and sent to die?
This is just appalling.
Cyrus
@Tom Betz:
On the bright side, according to the article, the officers have been arrested. Not convicted yet, but my impression is that even getting arrested for wrongdoing on the job is unusual for police officers.
Brachiator
@Kirk Spencer:
The problem is that the PETA morans have outsmarted themselves. They want an ad that is likely to get a click, but are too stoopid to understand NSFW.
They are also too stoopid to understand that the deliberately misleading ad might work better on a sports site or other blog where there are a lot of horny guys, as opposed to a political site, where pearl-clutchers are shocked to have to glance at Anderson’s boobage.
AhabTRuler
Maybe not “L“…
AhabTRuler
However, Tunch has a different disguise altogether.
KCinDC
It also might work better if the photo were of someone people would actually want to see naked rather than someone who made herself into a freak, and a particularly freakish-looking photo at that. Granted, there are fetishists for everything, but if you were trying to get a large number of horny guys to click on an ad, you might use a photo that was sexy to more normal people.
tcolberg
To quote a local radio host: “Florida or Germany?”
Deborah
The news that that’s a PETA ad puts it in a different context. Specifically “I used to like tofu, but haven’t eaten it since that George Clooney sweat infusion thing, so thanks a lot, PETA” context.
“See Anderson, her giant gazoombas, and her three arms in action” would work on a more porn-oriented site. Though I suspect the guys who click through may go eat more chickens in protest.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
@jrg:
Very true. I’d be very respectful of an undead dog’s crime-stopping ability. I imagine a zombie pooch would have a preternatural ability to sniff out the flesh of the living.
Come to think of it, why hasn’t a major religion sprung up around this dog?
drillfork
Floriduh is a special place…
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
While the whole story is no shocker to me (prosecutors using phony evidence to convict dark skinned people), I can’t get past the name of one of the guys in the story.
Maximus Colon? Max Colon? Sounds like the name of a gay pron star.
HyperIon
@Max Peck:
For me it’s just the south. It isn’t the retirees that make it screwed up. You wouldn’t be surprised if it were Alabama or Mississippi or Arkansas. But somehow we think the influx of mostly Northerners will dilute the confederacy lunacy. I do think the retirees don’t give a shit about the native crazies.
I am always appalled by the Orlando Slantenal. It contains no national news (except for crime and sensational stuff). Scary.
IMO the white people there are also scary. The scene from Religulous at the Holy Land attraction was perfect.
JR
Just keep in mind that Voodoo Dogs are still quite commonly employed to “detect accelerants” in burned buildings. They’re about as accurate as Harass, but they’re a nationwide phenomenon and have probably sent hundreds of innocent people to jail and denied hundreds more legitimate insurance claims.
Lancelot Link
My bet: every defendant is black. I’ll be shocked if that’s not the case.
Surprisingly enough, you would lose that bet.
Dillon and Dedge are both white.
Lancelot Link
My bet: every defendant is black. I’ll be shocked if that’s not the case.
Surprisingly enough, you would lose that bet.
Dillon and Dedge are both white.