When I was 14, my aunt gave me a tape of “Thriller” for my confirmation. I know every song on the record and still think that “Billie Jean” may be the best pop R&B song ever, a perfect mix of bravado, anxiety, and danceability. Ta-Nehisi Coates had a great post about Michael Jackson last week with some great video.
When you listen to innocence of the early Jackson 5 stuff and think of how oddly his life ended up, it’s pretty sad.
(link)
Linkmeister
I just saw a comment at Shakesville which summed his career up pretty well, I thought: “The weird overtook the music.”
I was a teenager when the Jackson 5 made it big; I always had trouble connecting the kid in that group to the adult he became.
Cat Lady
Gonna Be Startin’ Somethin’ has always been on every mix tape I’ve ever made. What a talent, and what a weirdo. Perhaps one necessitates the other. What a weird day.
Comrade Stuck
The three pillars of the 1980’s.
RedKitten (formerly Krista - the Canadian one)
My god, at first I thought you were just speaking figuratively, but I just checked CNN, and he really IS dead.
He truly was an astonishingly talented individual. It’s hard not to think about what could have been, had the man not been so tragically messed up.
Condolences to the family.
Man, today we lost an icon of the 70’s and one of the 80’s. I hope Eddie Vedder is taking care of himself…
Edit: I just realized I used the adjective “incredibly” three times in two sentences. Pathetic.
media browski
the SO and I are going to commemorate his passing by practicing the Thriller dance tonight. Check youtube for “how to dance the thriller” for a lesson in getting your zombie funk on.
Polish the Guillotines
When I was a kid, The Jackson 5 was some of my favorite stuff to listen to — there was even a Saturday morning cartoon. I never could get into his post-J5 stuff, and the weirder he got, the less I cared.
Still, there’s no denying the musical legacy he leaves behind.
And 50 is just too damned young. RIP, dude.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
I said my piece about Jackson in the open thread (well, for now), but OMFG:
Jeff Goldblum dead in fall in NZ.
This is just a weird, deathly day. Live your lives, folks. There are no guarantees.
LD50
I also found out that Sky Saxon died today, age 63. So that’s three celebrity deaths in one day.
Should be interesting to see how old the posters here have to be to know who Sky Saxon is.
Betsy
I was shocked when I saw this. I think I thought that he, like Madonna, would just keep on getting weirder. At least for a couple more decades.
Ruem
Wow, first Farrah, now Michael Jackson. Kinda sad to see the icons of my youth pass away. RIP, MJ and that blonde lady from Charlie’s Angels.
OMFG! Jeff Goldblum! dammit, I enjoyed that crazy mofo’s schtick. This is now officially a terrible day.
babieca
The man did not live an easy life. In fact he may be the poster child for “money can’t buy you happiness.”
I’m not a believer in the afterlife, but I hope he’s at peace.
Betsy
@RedKitten (formerly Krista – the Canadian one):
No kidding. Winona Ryder too. (I somehow think of her as a cinematic emblem of the 90s.)
Mayken
Wow! Dead at only 50. I was looking forward to at least another 20 years of eccentricity.
In all seriousness, I’m very sad to hear this. His music was a big part of my childhood. Between this and the loss of Farrah, it’s a sad day.
RIP
asiangrrlMN
@Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse: I just saw him on the Colbert report the other day. No way! I’m hoping it’s not true.
@LD50: I’m thirty-eight, and I have no idea who Sky Saxon was.
Jay in Oregon
@Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse:
The story is a fake. From the bottom of the page:
That’s in really poor taste, given the events of the past couple of days.
(Not you, Comrade Mary: I assume you were taken in.)
michael
Sad day I think. Despite how weird and bizarre his life was, he was and always will be a pop icon.
dude sold 750 million albums, and sold out 50 upcoming london concerts in a couple of minutes. he was still king!
JenJen
As a musician and a music lover, losing Michael Jackson is big, it really is. I’m honestly a bit stunned. Whether you remember him for his music, or his persona, he was, in my opinion, undeniably a cultural touchstone, an entertainment icon, and an enormous influence on the music and dance worlds at large.
To me, it’s kind of like losing a Beatle, it really is.
Colette
When I was in grade school, there were promotional cereal boxes with little 45 rpm Jackson 5 records stuck on the back that you could cut off and that actually played (once or twice, anyway). Getting the one with “ABC” was the highlight of 5th grade.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
Oh, thank goodness, and good catch. I’m just primed to see disaster everywhere right now, I guess.
RedKitten (formerly Krista - the Canadian one)
Are you even serious? That IS really weird. I always really liked him as an actor, and he seemed like a nice, normal guy.
Damn.
asiangrrlMN
@Jay in Oregon: Dang. Thanks for pointing that out. I was a bit freaked.
asiangrrlMN
@RedKitten (formerly Krista – the Canadian one): Krista, you changed your name! Question, how’s the weather where you live?
Digital Amish
My daughter called us from work with the news. I’m wondering if this will be one of those cultural touchstone moments in her generations’ lives like John Lennons death was to mine. I still remember time, place and companions when I heard that news (cold rainy night, Salty Dog Tavern, Lisa, Bill and Karen).
Robin G.
Okay, thank God the Jeff Goldblum thing is a hoax. I had a nearly life-threatening crush on him when I was ten (what can I say — a lifelong predisposition towards geeks).
Sad about Farrah, though it was expected. The Michael Jackson death is bizarre — heart attack at 50?
media browski
How to Dance the Thriller
kth
When I was in grade school,
Almost the opening for “The Love You Save May Be Your Own”, the J5’s best song besides “I Want You Back”.
RedKitten (formerly Krista - the Canadian one)
Whew, glad to hear about Goldblum, anyway.
Joshua Norton
That’s 3 when you count Ed McMahon.
linda
such talent and such a tormented soul. i hope he’s finally at peace.
Dream On
Well, his life had become culturally more than I can handle. Meh. His molestation victims are still very much alive.
Napoleon
@JenJen:
At some point I may get so old I do not recall my name, but I will never forget listening to the radio and hearing them announce John Lennon’s death, and running upstairs to where my parents were watching Monday Night Football just in time to hear Howard Cosell announce the same thing. My brother, the biggest John Lennon fan ever was asleep, and I was the one to tell him in the morning.
jake 4 that 1
Man, he was stranger than all hell and I can’t look at his “natural” pictures without thinking of what he did to himself and wincing but that dude had TALENT.
RedKitten (formerly Krista - the Canadian one)
@asiangrrlMN:
Yeah, I saw another Krista commenting, and felt it was time for a change in handle anyway.
The weather right now is about 25 Celsius, but it’s really, really, really muggy — it feels more like around 30 or so.
Genine
I just found out about MJ and Farah Fawcett a little while ago. What a day. Those are definitely losses, imo.
RIP to them both.
Comrade Stuck
It is a bit uplifting, to discover I’m not the only one who comments without reading threads.
And there will never be another Elvis, thank you, thank you very much.
Colette
@Digital Amish:
So do I (same weather, dorm room at Haverford College, Bob, Jeff, and Joe). I wonder what it says about my generation that both Lennon and Jackson seem like “where were you when…” moments to me?
spudgun
Between this and Farrah I don’t think I can take much more today…the very first album I ever bought with my tiny allowance when I was 5 or 6 years old was “Diana Ross Presents the Jackson 5.” I still have it. I also used to watch their cartoon on Saturday mornings; had a HUGE crush on Michael and Germaine (I’m a girl – hmm, don’t know why I had to qualify that!).
Have to admit, never really got into his music post-Thriller…
It’s silly of me, I know, but I am devastated. Completely gutted.
dewberry
Off the Wall was one of the first albums I ever bought for myself. My girlfriends and I just loved it.
When I went to french school for part of a summer in the early 80s, bonding over MJ was the way I got to know kids from other countries.
I could no longer love him as an adult, but the kid shall reign eternal. Hard to believe he was 50. It just doesn’t seem right.
Tax Analyst
I saw the news about Farrah this morning and I just caught the news about Jackson a few minutes ago. To me Farrah’s death is sadder, maybe because in spite of her fame she seemed fairly well-grounded and ready to live out a long and satisfying life but for her illness. As far as Michael Jackson’s death, well, for me the sadness set in a many, many years ago as I watched the “King of Pop” mutate into a creature that reminded me of an episode of the old sci-fi program “The Outer Limits”. I think it was about a grotesque man from our “future” who traveled back in time to change the past…and in doing so prevented himself from existing in the first place.
Oh…Sky Saxon…sure, leader of the mid-60’s L.A. group “The Seeds”. Let’s see, “Pushin’ Too Hard”, “The Farmer” (not sure if that was actually the title of the song, but the lyrics were about some farmer), maybe “Midnight Confession”, I think.
Even before I heard or read these obit bits I was feeling weirdly out-of-sorts today and just kind of “cancelled” all the various chores and tasks I had planned (and really needed to do) for today. I just decided to veg out, read a book and listen to music.
BDeevDad
@Digital Amish: He was also like my folks’ Elvis. Iconic, talented and odder the older he got.
joe from Lowell
I got Thriller for Christmas the year it came out.
Best. Christmas. Ever.
I heard “Beat It” on the radio a couple months ago. It was the first time in years. It had been so long that I was able to listen to it with fresh ears – instead of hearing “that Michael Jackson song I’ve known since I was a kid,” I was able to hear the song itself.
What a masterpiece. The aggressive bass and rhythm guitar, the snappy percussion, Eddie Van Halen’s solo, and what a tight little song.
Whatever else he was, that man was an enormously gifted musician.
demimondian
The man could dance. He could sing.
And he was creepy — even if the molestation charges weren’t true, the man had a creepy self-multilation fetish.
freelancer
Ugh.
GOLDBLUM NOT DEAD!!!
It’s a hoax template called fakeawish.com
asiangrrlMN
@RedKitten (formerly Krista – the Canadian one): Cool on the name. Yuck on the heat. I was researching the coldest place on earth, and it’s in the northern Canadian territories. -10 as an average, year round. That’s my kind of place.
MikeJ
Off the Wall was a great album, and Jackson’s last as far as I’ve ever cared.
Don’t Stop ’til You Get Enough
Rock with You
Alex Chilton does a great cover of Rock With You, btw.
Dream On
Perhaps this means we can finally hear all the outtakes from “Invincible.”
Michael Jackson has not done anything positive for anybody or anything in over 20 years. He left long ago. I would never compare it with the senseless tragedy of John Lennon, who never stopped giving a lot to so many.
Blue Raven
Spudgun, I am with you. Him and Farrah both have me thinking, “Today is fired; where the fuck is my dandelion patch?”
demimondian
@joe from Lowell: I heard _Thriller_ for the first time in years just the other day — and I was shocked, watching it as an adult, how brilliant the choreography is. From the girl, initially terrified at the thought of her date making a pass at her, to his sudden transformation into a zombie — it’s a brilliant short film.
AhabTRuler
Michael Jackson?
PurpleGirl
When John Lennon was killed and I first heard the story, I cried. I couldn’t sleep at all — I stayed up all night. I just didn’t want to believe it. I was working as a freelance secretary at the time and I called the person I was supposed to work with the following day and canceled the appointment.
Michael Jackson — I hope he finds peace in whatever he believed an afterlife to be. He was so tormented in life by inner demons.
ScottF
Hey, it happens. Same thing happened in 2002 to Jackson’s polar opposite from the early eighties, Joe Strummer, who died at 50 of cardiac arrest due to an undiagnosed heart defect.
Mwangangi
P.Y.T is my favorite Michael Jackson song (the first song I played when twitter crashed and I knew the rumors were true) and it just edges out Workin’ Day and Night.
I will now read the thread.
LD50
At least the news is good here.
JGabriel
Comrade Stuck:
Really. It seems that could apply to anyone from Prince to New Order to REM to The ‘Mats to Husker Du.
And I just realized 3 of those acts are from Minneapolis, which should seem weird but doesn’t.
.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
@Cat Lady:
True dat. America is a weird, nervous place these days.
Rusty Steaknife
Michael Jackson dead…That’s Ignorant.
KRK
Thriller was an iconic album with what seemed like endless great singles, but for me it never compared to the grooviness of Off the Wall.
A sad day. I wonder what’ll happen to his kids.
R-Jud
@LD50:
PHEW!
JGabriel
Between Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson, I guess the 70’s are finally over.
.
Little Dreamer
Why is Al Sharpton on tv? Is this just an opportunistic thing?
Tax Analyst
Not that it matters more than the least, but I believe I incorrectly credited “Midnight Confession” to the Seeds. On further reflection I think that was actually done by the Grass Roots. (Sigh)…thinking about the Seeds has got me thinking about several other mid-60’s psychedelic-oriented groups. Anybody remember “The Electric Prunes”? They did “I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night”, which was actually a pretty rockin’ song and another one called “Get Me To The World On Time”, if my memory serves me (which is by no means any sort of guarantee these days).
Sorry to drift off-topic, but I guess I’d rather reminisce about old songs than dwell on exactly how many cultural touchstones hit the exit door today. I just lost my older brother a little less than two weeks ago and I’ve been struggling with all the various odds and ends of his life that were still pending when he moved on.
Dream On
This should keep Iranian demonstrators and health care out of our minds for a long time. It’s a conspiracy.
A shame about Farrah. Not my idea of an immortal actor, but she seemed well-intentioned enough.
ricardo cabeza
Gay pedophile? Anyone?
Cat Lady
@LD50:
Hilarious. Thanks.
Jon H
@Dream On: “Not my idea of an immortal actor”
Immortally bulbous nipples, however.
asiangrrlMN
@JGabriel: It’s not weird. We have a great music scene here. It just doesn’t get noticed because we’re “flyover” land.
Litlebritdifrnt
Al Sharpton is such a f**king tool, while it is sad that MJ has died his speech outside the Apollo was pathetic. PARTCULARLY when he said (paraphrasing) “We are the World would not have happened without Michael, and Live Aid would not have happened without We are the World. Bullshit, Live Aid came out of “Band Aid” which was begun by Bob Geldoff, Michael Jackson (with all due respect) jumped on the Band Aid bandwagon with “We are the World” AFTER Band Aid. BTW Olbermann is reporting that MJ left the 50% of the Beatles catalogue that he owned to Paul McCartney. Nice if its true.
Dennis-SGMM
@Tax Analyst:
I am an Old Guy and I fondly remember sneaking into various dives on the Sunset Strip (The Sea Witch, among others) to hear the Seeds, the Grass Roots as well as the Isley Brothers featuring a young guitarist named Jimi Hendrix.
These are the memories that make me a wealthy soul.
Dream On
Jon H,
“Immortally bulbous nipples, however.”
That IS a tragedy. Michael what-now?
I shall now play John Lennon’s solo work – as that actually WAS a tragedy. As for the people gathering at UCLA Medical Center – in LA people will line up for almost anything. And I’m still shaken by the image a decade ago of a woman releasing doves of peace from a cage after she heard of Jackson’s acquital. Ah, starfucking LA…
BDeevDad
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I thought he sold it to pay off creditors.
Dream On
The Beatles back-catalogue was sold off 6 months ago, I believe. McCartney’s involvement would have only been through a third party or through his own money. Repeat: Michael Jackson has done nothing good for anybody for decades. Except maybe as “X-Files” jokes.
gbear
@KRK: Ditto that Off The Wall was a far cooler record than Thriller. I worked at a record warehouse when Thriller came out and I just remember sending out thousands and thousands of copies. This was in the days when the stores could return unsold copies so we got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of copies back again.
@LD50: I know who Sky Saxon is (well, was). Lead singer for The Seeds. And I’m getting weirded out by having these two guys die on my 55th birthday.
gopher2b
@BDeevDad:
Doesn’t really matter now. Creditors own it either way. Can’t wait for the Beatles songs appearing in every Super Bowl commercial.
asiangrrlMN
Crap. This is not the best place to say this, but happy birthday, gbear.
Little Dreamer
@BDeevDad:
MSNBC reports he sold HALF of it, the other half is going back to McCartney.
Jay in Oregon
@Dream On:
And I hope that this can bring them some peace.
Michael Jackson’s legacy will be of two public personas: the talented pop singer and the music he left behind, and the tormented soul that he became later and the people he hurt.
He should always be remembered for both, and I don’t think anyone here intends to diminish his sins. I know I don’t.
RedKitten (formerly Krista - the Canadian one)
Right now, that’s sounding about right. I’m always reluctant to bitch about the heat, though. Our summers are so damn short that it feels like the height of ingratitude to complain about being too hot.
However, that will not stop me from vastly enjoying the pool tomorrow when my hubby takes me on a spa weekend as our last hurrah before the baby arrives.
Napoleon
@BDeevDad:
I swear to God this is true, but a few years back when Jackson faced that child molestation charge and was in money trouble my brother in law, who was at a major money center bank now gone, was working on loaning Jackson money which loan was to be secured by the Beatles catalog.
forked tongue
Tax Analyst: The other Seeds tune besides “Pushin’ Too Hard” that got some national play was “Can’t Seem to Make You Mine.”
Sky Saxon is a little bit better remembered (among those who pay any attention to this kind of thing at all) than the headmen of other Nuggets-style one-hit wonders like Count Five or the Chocolate Watch Band because he stayed active and was one of those legendary acid burnouts, like Roky Erikson or Skip Spence, who you’d probably cross the street to avoid passing but whose musical weirdness stayed compelling.
Cat Lady
@Tax Analyst:
Well put. Condolences on your brother, and the odds and ends is the legacy. I loved the Grass Roots and the Turtles and remember the Electric Prunes (jr. high dance parties). Good luck, and thanks for the memories.
Dream On
Well put, Jay in Oregon. Perspective is good and advised.
gopher2b and BDeevDad,
I think under the current contract, as the Beatles own some of the copyright, thankfully the original Beatles recordings still cannot be used in commercials.
Warren Zevon writes about Michael Jackson in his song “Splendid Isolation.” Now THAT’s a cat I miss…
gbear
Is that what they’re calling them these days. She had great intentions.
NPR said that she was most noted for her radiant smile.
Forgive me for being flip about her, but she was known for her T&A. It’s weird listening to the media try to talk about her fame without mentioning that.
Cat Lady
@Comrade Stuck:
4th pillar – shoulderpads. Also.
anonymous
@ricardo cabeza:
how does being gay have any import on pedophilia?
R-Jud
@Tax Analyst:
So sorry to hear that, TA.
gbear
@asiangrrlMN: Thanks AsiangrrlMN. You going to go to Loring Park for pride this weekend? If I go it’ll be on saturday.
AnotherBruce
True dat. America is a weird, nervous place these days.
I think it’s been that way for a long time. The 60s and 70s were certainly weird and nervous.
Johnny B. Guud
I wasn’t a fan, but Michael Jackson was an icon of the 20th century, let alone a single decade.
Neddie Jingo
Lennon: Monday Night Football, Caples Hall common room at Kenyon, bunch of freaks-n-geeks sitting around, Howard Cosell informing me that I would never view life the same way again.
The scar tissue around my heart still hasn’t healed. I don’t think it ever will.
Neddie Jingo
@Little Dreamer:
MSNBC reports he sold HALF of it, the other half is going back to McCartney.
So “I Want to Hold Your Hand” appears in a SB commercial, but “She Loves You” is sacrosanct?
JK
Silver lining in cable news coverage of Michael Jackson’s death
The O’Reilly Factor has been bumped off the air and replaced with Shepard Smith
Ann Coulter’s appearance on Larry King Live has been cancelled
forked tongue
I can’t believe I’m bothering to post this, but I don’t really agree. Look at the famous poster. The T’s look nice, but not really exceptional. The A is hardly in evidence. But that smile was something.
I don’t usually weigh in on this kind of shit though.
Dennis-SGMM
…or Skip Spence, who you’d probably cross the street to avoid passing but whose musical weirdness stayed compelling.
Shit, I remember Skip from when he was the drummer for the then Jefferson Street Airplane. “Omaha” is still on my HD.
PanAmerican
Family spokesman: “the family tried to intervene because of his prescription drug abuse…”
He’s not even cold and they’re already spinning. Sounds like the toxicology report is gonna be a doozy.
Dream On
Back to Lennon,
My wife was born on December 8th. Which worked out great until her 2nd birthday, when all attention went right away from her birthday party to Howard Cosell and the terrible news from NYC.
I doubt that anyone’s birthday party tonight will end in crying and sobbing from adults. Lennon’s murder vs. Jackson burning out? Apples and oranges.
And to have Lennon record a throw-away song called “Life Begins At 40” earlier that fateful night. It was an evil evil day, and I’m more invested in it then a 34-year old rightly should be. But it was such a loss.
rikyrah
Before him, it was still Black Music and Top 40 (i.e., White) Music.
After him, began the ascension of Black Music AS Top 40 music.
Every popular Black artist today owes something to Michael Jackson. He did so many different things, refusing to be pigeonholed, that the multi-hyphenated artist is now commonplace. But, Michael was the one who blew open those doors.
Morfydd
@gbear
well, as a sheltered child born 1972, I remember her for her feathered hair.
(it’s been 30 years, and of all the hairstyles in my life, feathering has been the only one my hair ever cooperated with. So of course it went out of fashion when I was eight years old.)
I heard about MJ on the phone with a mortgage rep tonight. Of all the small talk one might make…
Jager
When “Off the Wall” came out and “Rock with Me” hit, a rock musician friend of mine said, “that little fucker sings 4 part harmony with himself!”…I wonder it he ever looked at the cover picture on “Off the Wall” and wished he was a handsome, young, black man again.
Cat Lady
@LD50:
Felix Cavaliere: alive.
@Tax Analyst:
People Got To Be Free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjX_dV8Qk_M
Xanthippas
Wow. I remember those. That was…a long time ago.
Cat Lady
@Jager:
If he had stayed as a black male, he would be about the same age as Barack Obama. I wonder if he saw himself negatively in that context. OMG, it IS all Barack Obama’s fault!
cmohrnc
If Michael Jackson is a cultural icon, what the hell does that say about the culture? That slick visuals and catchy rythms and dance moves are worthy compensation for depraved sickness, irresponsible self-indulgence, and immature lack of groundedness in the real world (just for starters?)
His premature death does represent the loss and waste of an immense entertainment talent. I am saddened by the death of most people, MJ included. But this has little lasting significance.
People won’t remember where they were when they heard the news of MJ’s death, the way that’s true of John Lennon. MJ in the end is yet another entertainer who dies essentially of poor lifestyle indulgences.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
OK, this finally got me a little tearful.
That poor kid he once was, the poor kids he almost certainly molested, and his own poor kids, who deserve quiet and normal lives.
Cat Lady
@cmohrnc:
People who cared remembered where they were when Elvis died, and he set the all time standard for death by lifestyle.
MJ was a Marilyn, Madonna, Elvis, Princess Diana, Liberace level icon, and his gender/race ambiguity made him completely unique. You may not care for him, but his imprint on American pop, music and movie culture is indelible.
Johnny B. Guud
I disagree. And I’m not a Michael Jackson fan at all. But the man is a cultural and musical icon on the level of the Beatles, Elvis, etc. The man sold 750 million albums! Think about that for one second. That 750 million can’t be just delusional syncophants.
Shorter cmohrnc: “Get off my lawn! You kids and your devil music!”
Johnny B. Guud
Damn block quotes
Johnny B. Guud
Yep
Tom
It’s sad that he died, as he was – in 1983 – the biggest celebrity in my lifetime, by a longshot, but his life since about 1987 was one slow long fade. That situation usually doesn’t end well. And it also proves that when people surround themselves with those who don’t ever say “no”, bad things happen.
Still, the songs are undeniable.
Steeplejack
@Tax Analyst:
With you on the old tunes. I can still remember the two Electric Prunes LPs I shelled out big coin for (at the time).
An excellent roundup of that era is Nuggets. Check it out.
Oh, and you want some Seeds? (Clueless camera work. They keep going to the bass player. Meh.)
P.S. Sorry to hear about your brother. My condolences.
Steeplejack
@Dennis-SGMM:
“Omaha”? Wasn’t that Moby Grape?
Jeez, the geezer whiff is getting strong in here.
Laura W
@Steeplejack: Don’t move over to the latest thread.
You’ll feel compelled to put on a Depends (just for peace of mind, I mean), probably.
leaningtowardundecided
Let’s see. Mr. Jackson had made something of a second career conning people into thinking he would perform/record, take their millions and then skipping out. As the 50 London performances closed in, something he could not possibly pull off or get out of, he took a crap load of pills and turned the lights out on himself. Hope I am wrong, but don’t bet against it. The poor man was mentally ill beyond all hope.
Tom
@leaningtowardundecided
And that’s where the conspiracy theories will begin. Skipping out on monster debt in a way that a move to Brunei couldn’t accomplish.
JGabriel
Steeplejack:
Yep, it was. And there’s also a cover version by the Golden Palominos with Michael Stipe singing lead from 1985’s Visions of Excess.
.
Steeplejack
@rikyrah:
I’m not downplaying Michael Jackson’s achievement, but, sorry, I must disagree. You can look at any Top 40 chart from about 1966 on and be stunned by the diversity of the music in the Top 40–light-years from the mainstream blandness and separate little enclaves of today.
The Billboard archive charts seem to cost money, but here’s the Cash Box list of No. 1 singles for 1968. I see Diana Ross and the Supremes, Marvin Gaye, Gladys Knight and the Pips, the Temptations, Sam and Dave, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Wilson Pickett, Dionne Warwick–even Archie Bell and the Drells. (“Tighten Up”–that was a great one. Warning: this is some scarcy-ass video.) And that’s just the No. 1 songs for each week.
parksideq
@rikyrah:
Hell, MTV owes Michael Jackson.
Steeplejack
@Laura W:
God, now I’m going to have to look. But I will, er, gird my loins first. How ’bout that?
4jkb4ia
@rikyrah:
I hope this is not something Steve Sailer would say, but I thought the best legacy for Michael Jackson would be to have people proud of him as an influence the way people were proud to have Donnie Hathaway and Marvin Gaye as influences. There is enough pure, well-made pop there for that to happen.
In any event, the Billboard magazine came today and the lead story was about Maxwell coming back after 7 years in which he took some time to actually live and make an ambitious three-album project. Would use word “poignant” if it had not been debased to describe conjunction of this and Michael Jackson death.
Sasha
One of my favorite quips was “If you’d told me back in the 80s that twenty-plus years hence, Michael Jackson would be a has-been and Weird Al was still relevant, I would have said you were out of your mind.”
I just don’t have the stomach for that bit of snark anymore.
The King of Pop is dead; long live the King.
4jkb4ia
The “poignancy” is that Michael Jackson couldn’t do that. He was too famous to do that.
mai naem
I always thought Off The Wall was a better album than Thriller. Don’t Stop Till You Get Enough brings up some fond memories from grade school stage shows. I remember sitting watching some talk show in the somewhere in 1980-81 with my sister. They were interviewing Michael Jackson. This was when he had had the initial plastic surgery/skin lightening and whatever he had done with his hair. My sister and I turned to each other and said that wasn’t Michael Jackson. We were really convinced that it was not Michael Jackson. Anyway, the guy was a consummate entertainer. I am not sure people realize that while Americans have a problem with the child molestation charges, he was still extremely popular in Asia and Europe. There’s not a whole lot of musicians who when you hear them, you know its them. You recognize the voice and the style. I hope some non money grubber, non f*d up person takes over the care of the kids.
4jkb4ia
@Steeplejack:
More nuanced version of Top 40 history:
1960s Stax and Motown can have success on pop charts
1970s Radio becomes very segregated. Dave Marsh observes that Earth, Wind, and Fire and Steely Dan are parallel groups for different audiences. Parliament/Funkadelic have huge sales but cannot crack Top 10 on Hot 100.
1980 MTV begins. You almost never see a black person there.
1982 Thriller and 1999 released. Michael Jackson and Prince break color barriers at radio and MTV. Most generic R&B and rap cannot get hearing.
1985 Whitney Houston debut
1986 Run-DMC and Aerosmith come out with “Walk This Way”. Rap gets hearing at radio and MTV.
approx. 1995-2005 Rap and R&B dominate Billboard charts
After approx. 2005 White artists figure out how to incorporate generic hip-hop into bubblegum pop and commercial rap and R&B have become mass of cliches anyhow. Rap and R&B attain less and less ground on Billboard charts
geg6
No question whatsoever, “Off the Wall” was THE pop/dance masterpiece of all time. There is no other and probably never will be. Simply brilliant. I know “Thriller” sold many more units and had all those iconic videos (damn that guy could dance) and some songs that hold up to anything on “Off the Wall” (” Billie Jean” and “Beat It” are tuly awesome cuts) but it isn’t nearly strong as a whole. Some cuts are just embarrassing (I’m talking to you “PYT” and “Ebony and Ivory”). That said, gimme that first Michael Jackson I first fell for. That amazing little boy with the preternatural talent, who sang like he was created for that very thing and to do it with joy and maturity and purity. “The Love You Save” will always be my favorite. I heard it tonight and was boogying in my car, completely not caring that other drivers were staring at me at the red light. Fantastic. I, too, am of an age where I cannot forget every detail of the moment I heard John Lennon had been killed. I was tending bar at King’s Inn with MNF on the tube and Howard Cosell broke the news. I burst into tears and never stopped even while I poured beers, even doing last call and locking up at 2am just sobbing. I was 22. There were only a few guys at the bar, all musicians (it was that sort of musicians hangout) and we turned the sound off the tv and kept feeding quarters in the juke box, playing every song by the Beatles and Lennon. The most emotional night of my life until my dad died. I feel a teeny tiny bit like that, but not much. My feelings about Jackson are too complicated and contradictory. Love a lot of his music and respect his talent, but I find him to personally be pitiful and repellant. But my love and admiration for John Lennon always has been completely pure and crystal clear. The music and lyrics some of the best that will ever be made. And the way he chose to live his life and give it meaning will always inspire me, even the faults and mistakes. He always owned up to them and tried to do better. My true hero.
Instantly Moderated Commenter
[Warning! Young, guitar-rock and symphony orchestra loving, anti-commercialism buttinsky who grew up without a television will now say something mean.]
I really never cared for that Mr. Jackson’s music or public persona. I personally found his beats, his melodies, his dancing, and his on-camera “personality” to be simultaneously mundane and deeply irritating. A pop culture phenomenon that should have inspired as much peans to genius as the committee-written songs of The New Kids On The Block, or Madonna’s latest message-managed recreation of self. Or jingles for dishwasher detergent, for that matter. A lot of time and effort goes into those jingles.
Sure, the music video “Thriller” was well made – so go give John Landis an Oscar already. Give Jackson props for his “co-writing” on it if you want (“Oo! Oo! And then there’ll be zombies John!” – yeah, genius I’m sure).
And the most forgiving thing you can say about Michael Jackson’s life story is that he fought with his personal monsters and lost. Rather badly.
There. Someone had to say it, right?
Little Dreamer
@Neddie Jingo:
Don’t blame me, I didn’t do it, or report it. I just stated what was reported.
Whatever is sacrosant and isn’t, isn’t MY decision or problem.
Steeplejack
@4jkb4ia:
I wasn’t breaking down the entire history of pop music, just objecting to what I detected as a “before Michael there was nothing” vibe.
As to the fragmenting of the radio market in the ’70s and the advent of MTV in 1981, I don’t have any big arguments with your history. I would say that the bifurcation was less the result of racism than of soulless corporate marketing.
And I would quibble with this statement: “Parliament/Funkadelic have huge sales but cannot crack Top 10 on Hot 100.” The Hot 100 is all about sales, and if they didn’t make the Top 10 they didn’t have the sales to do it. I can’t believe Whitey was sitting in a room somewhere saying, “No, P-Funk doesn’t get in.” And I say that as a big P-Funk fan.
Krissed Off
I was a wee bairn of 12 years of age, maybe 13, when first I heard “The Love you Save” on the AM radios in Rio.
There was a sweetness and a swing to that song that made me go totally nuts. I stayed at the ready with my recording gear for days and would always miss it. Until the day that figured the playlist for that station and just let the Uher real-to-real run unattended for an hour or so. And then there it was.
I held on to that recording until the 80’s, then transfered it to cassette. And then gave it up only when I got it on Napster.
I mourn Michael Jackson’s death. We were born only a few days and a single ocean apart.
I was just a kid and he gave me a world of wonder.
gwangung
Um…in a lot of ways, isn’t that two faces of the same coin?
Steeplejack
@gwangung:
Possibly not. One thing I didn’t mention in my previous posts was the death of the 45 rpm single sometime in the ’70s. The market changed significantly. In the ’60s the Top 40 was driven by sales of 45 rpm singles. I can remember a time when it was a big deal for me or one of my friends to make the commitment to buy an LP rather than just one or two songs on 45s. (Probably the way it is now–or is becoming, or is reverting to–with iTune and MP3 downloads.)
In the ’70s singles became much less important and albums became much more important. Bands like the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac were tremendously successful–and, as “brands,” were much easier to market than a bunch of single songs. (And you make much more money getting someone to buy the follow-on album to a previously liked album rather than a follow-on single to a previously liked single.) Where I see soulless corporate marketing rather than racism is in the fact that the “supergroups” crushed a lot of small white groups as well as black groups.
When black artists came along that successfully created a brand, like Michael Jackson and Prince, they got the same soulless corporate marketing treatment (see: Thriller) and made bazillions of dollars. Instead of blaming the Man, blame P-Funk for not being good businessmen. Or for not creating an album that is within miles of Off the Wall or Thriller. P-Funk had a lot of great songs. Great albums? Not so much.
Note: I am not saying that sales = quality.
Edit: I have no idea how I got to this place after simply wanting to make the point that Michael Jackson was not some black Moses who parted the waters and led teh blacks into the promised land of Top 40.
Gwangung
Yah, but it’s a very informative place….
Steeplejack
@Gwangung:
Don’t mock me.
Okay, Grandpa Steep is going to have some warm milk and totter off to bed.
asiangrrlMN
@gbear: Depends on how hot it is. As you may know, I don’t do heat. But yeah, I am feeling particularly pride-filled these days. What will you be wearing? Oh, and I gave you a shout-out on my blog a few days ago.
@Tax Analyst: Really sorry to hear about your brother. May he fly swiftly to the other side. My condolences to you and your family.
ken adler
The Jackson 5 stuff was hardly innocent. Listen to the ending of “Who’s loving you?”
He was abused from day 1. After everything that happened to him over the past 20 years, it still amazes me that we allow children to become stars. Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan are following the same exact route as Michael Jackson.
Sad really sad.
Chinn Romney
Let’s get the “he’s not really dead” rumor rolling. I was in Paris last week and I saw Jacko and some paunchy old guy with a DA and white jumpsuit laying flowers on Jim Morrison’s grave. They were both smirking and laughing it up.
Cassidy
The children in this world are just a little bit safer today. Pardon me if I don’t weep for a dead pedophile.