Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

T R E 4 5 O N

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

The revolution will be supervised.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

Cole is on a roll !

Biden: Oh no. We’ve upset Big Pharma again.

“woke” is the new caravan.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

The problem people have with Biden’s age is the color of the VPs skin.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Saturday Night Open Thread

Reader Interactions

154Comments

  1. 1.

    Steeplejack

    Late shift reporting early tonight. I covered someone’s opening shift at the part-time job today and got home a while ago. Not used to it being light outside.

    Catching up on Balloon Juice, sucking on a Samuel Adams Boston Ale, got the Cubs and Nats on the TV in the background. And the weather is ridiculous for July. High of 82° today, low humidity, low in the 60s tonight. Same tomorrow. I could take this all summer.

  3. 3.

    HRA

    Oh, great! Especially now that I have the worst headache after reading the comments in Politico about Sarah and Trig Palin (the baby) Yeah, I do get confused over their names.

    I really needed some Tunch and Lily. (sigh)

    I now vow to not get ensnared by a lead in Memeorandum for Politico.

  4. 4.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Imagine a picture of Tunch or Lily.

    This cruelty will get you on the Jerry Springer show, for eternity.

  5. 5.

    ronin122

    Can I imagine a picture of both of them prepping to get you in your sleep (as you so imagine them doing one day, with Tunch leading the initiative)?

    Off topic and not sure if it was brought up in another thread but if you thought Jake Tapper was bad with the whole Sanford affair, David Gregory…well frankly it’s no surprise since it pretty much confirms what we already knew of MTP http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/17/754678/-Meet-the-Press-More-Like-Stroke-the-Guest

  6. 6.

    Laura W

    @Steeplejack:

    And the weather is ridiculous for July. High of 82° today, low humidity, low in the 60s tonight.

    [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0ZWbMh]Is there anything more boring than talking about the weather?[/url]

  8. 8.

    Laura W

    @Steeplejack:
    I think talking about the weather is one of the most boring things ever. I once lived with a man who was obsessed with precipitation levels. In FRESNO, CA.
    Needless to say, we weren’t really meant for each other. (Sorry, until the cheat link buttons come back, I can’t be bothered with all of that html coding stuff)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0ZWbMhWrE

  9. 9.

    shelley matheis

    Listening to Danny Stiles old time radio show on NPR tonight. They just played Tony Bennett’s “I Left My Heart In San Francisco.’
    Sigh. I’ve loved that song since the first time I heard it, all the way back , geez, I was five or six.

  10. 10.

    ninerdave

    @MTmofo:

    I’m not a big Tapper fan, but I’ll give him props for this. Although I think he wussed out by choosing TownHall over RedState. Or maybe, RedState isn’t as important as Erick leads us to believe. haha

  11. 11.

    Sasha

    You clearly don’t know how much actual (as opposed to hypothetical) pictures of Lily lighten my day. I love watching her become a joyful, secure dog. There is something really wonderful about the happiness of a dog. They ask for so little and give everything they can. In the midst of all the stress and frustration of the political situation, pictures of Lily are like an island of calm.

  14. 14.

    CynDee

    That’s not so hard. You’ve treated us so often and so well. Thank you!

    Ohhhh, Lily’s so cuute when she’s passed out on her back hanging her head off the edge of the futon. And there’s that Tunchy stare right behind her.

  15. 15.

    Brachiator

    @ronin122:

    Off topic and not sure if it was brought up in another thread but if you thought Jake Tapper was bad with the whole Sanford affair, David Gregory…well frankly it’s no surprise since it pretty much confirms what we already knew of MTP….

    In the context of the death of Walter Cronkite, Gregory’s groveling is especially slimy, for example, this:

    … So coming on Meet The Press allows you to frame the conversation how you really want to…and then move on. You can see (sic) you have done your interview and then move on. Consider it.

    This chasing for noteworthy celebrities by the pundit shows is as creepy as the checkbook journalism you see when Dateline or the Today Show try to wrangle an interview with a “hot get” like the Octomom.

    They might as well hold a Washington Post salon.

    It seems to me that the average politician is so arrogant at worst, or eager to get his or her ideas or programs before the public at best, that the pundit shows could offer nothing but a chair of nails and most of them would still be eager to appear on their shows.

    And the ones who didn’t want to appear would fear that reporters would unleash un-spun facts, and make them look like cowards who were afraid to show their faces in public.

    But apparently Gregory has forgot that a reporter’s first job is to kick ass not kiss it.

  19. 19.

    gwangung

    @Brachiator: THis is the inevitable result of the constant pressure to have profits from the news division. With profits irrelevant, you can press for answers; with profits hanging over the head, you need visibly decent relations with politicians. Without the need for profits, you can wait the bastards out as you dig for info; with the need, the pols can freeze you out, and the ONLY source of info is the granted access that reporters are whoring themselves out for.

  21. 21.

    The next-to-last samurai

    Real pictures, please? Some of us have no imagination. 71 degrees here & raining. John, make sure to get Lily some dog booties for this winter, de-icers make dogs’ feet sore. I would like to meet lily someday, would anyone else? John could tag along if he kept quiet.

  22. 22.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Alright, Steep, yer totally fucking with my schedule. I’m sitting here yawning now

  24. 24.

    shelley matheis

    Damn you’re old

    And getting older every damn day, ninerdave. As they say, better than the alternative.

  26. 26.

    Eric U.

    I was trying to take pictures of my dog and he acted like I was trying to beat him. Screwed up rescue dogs are the best.

  27. 27.

    Demo Woman

    Tonight I’m watching an old movie “Next Stop Wonderland” and relaxing. I’ll probably pour a glass of wine and unwind from the toils of the day.
    Tis my birthday and I have already had a shattering day. My son came over to help me install a shower door, the last step of my bathroom renovation and unfortunately, the door shattered. We are not sure what happened because the door did not have apparent cracks and was just leaning against a wall in my bedroom, adjacent to the bath and he simply picked it up. Imagine a 70 lb pieced of glass exploding and dissolving into thousands of pieces. Fortunately, he is okay except for several cuts and glass embedded all over his body.
    I had done research on doors and know that glass can shatter so I spent twice as much just to make sure that the glass was thick enough to handle the height. It was a special order from Home Depot and they could not have been nicer, but duh!, I would be nice too.
    Anyway it has been a shattering birthday. I tried to convince the son that maybe a tetanus shot would be okay but to no avail.
    Time for that wine.

  28. 28.

    The next-to-last samurai

    P.s. What is the latest on Tunch’s diet? Is he still losing? Well, I must get up at 0-dark-thirty tomorrow so I will leave you all for now. Have a Juicy weekend!

  29. 29.

    shelley matheis

    oh, I’ve been meaning to ask. Has Lily learned the ‘S’ word yet?
    You know, (whispering) ‘Squirrel.’
    With Miss Kate it took only one repetition, at the appropriate time, and she had it down ever after.

  34. 34.

    ninerdave

    @shelley matheis:

    You know, (whispering) ‘Squirrel.’
    With Miss Kate it took only one repetition, at the appropriate time, and she had it down ever after.

    Oh man, I had a cocker spaniel growing up that, at the mere mention of the “S” word would go bolting to the door, wait for someone to open it, then bolt out into the yard. Sometimes there was a squirrel out there, sometime we did it for fun. Eventually she learned to look out the window first, before bolting to the door.

  35. 35.

    ninerdave

    @JenJen:

    Everyone see that the founder of Free Republic has posted his US Government Overthrow Manifesto?

    That is all sorts of awesome.

    Perspective? I haz it, I tink. Err no not really.

    I see one flaw in his plan:

    The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.

    Um, that would make Hillary Prez. Wouldn’t that be a bad thing? I mean Clinton got a BJ and all, who KNOWS what sort of sexual escapades Hillary might be up too. Then again maybe he’s a closet PUMA.

  37. 37.

    Fern

    @ninerdave:

    I guess in the great heirarchy of things to hate, an african-american president rates higher than a female president.

  38. 38.

    geg6

    I have decided to channel Laura W tonight. I have consumed a relatively inexpensive but quite tasty pinot noir and am immensely enjoying watching and listening to Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan singing and dancing badly but with great enjoyment and enthusiasm to the great cheesefest that is the ABBA songbook. Even my John is dancing around with Henry and Otis and me.

  39. 39.

    ninerdave

    @Fern:

    I guess in the great heirarchy of things to hate, an african-american president rates higher than a female president.

    But higher than a Clinton? I’m not so sure….

  40. 40.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Getting ready to watch the movie Snow Walker, a stranded film set in Alaskan wilderness, no Sarah though.

    If you like Hummingbirds here are some of my recent photos on flickr. If you don’t like small birds, shouldn’t click.

    Also downloading Windows Live to set up a live Web Cam of the little guys fighting over a feeder just outside the window about 5 feet away from the computer. Don’t know much about webcams and can’t afford an expensive one, but if things work out will have a live Hummer Cam set up on Livestream in about a week or so. There are about 30 of the colorful flying wizards out there right now. Pretty good anti-depressant for moi, anyway.

  42. 42.

    Demo Woman

    @Indylib: Thanks, I think he’s okay and he is now out with his special friend who I hope is nagging him about making sure he doesn’t have embedded glass. It was just a giant waterfall of small pieces of glass. My mutt Moxie was the only one that had enough sense to run.
    “Next Stop Wonderland” is great! One of the reasons I like Neflix is that they recommend movies that you might like.

  43. 43.

    Brachiator

    @gwangung:

    THis is the inevitable result of the constant pressure to have profits from the news division. With profits irrelevant, you can press for answers; with profits hanging over the head, you need visibly decent relations with politicians.

    I think that profits is part of it, but it doesn’t fully explain how news divisions pick up a false conventional wisdom that you need to curry favor with politicians in order to get them to appear on their programs.

    Very few politicians have any built-in star power that compels viewers to want to see them. And most politicians are constrained by events: they are running for office, they have a bill they want passed, they oppose a Supreme Court nominee and need to get on to send a message to their constituents.

    And in the case of someone like Sanford, why in the world would anyone try hard to get him when he showed that he had an almost self-destructive need to explain himself in public?

    The worst part of the Gregory memo is that it demonstrates that news organizations are willing to undermine the reason for their existence in order to fill airtime with someone they believe is a “hot get.” But from a news perspective, what is the point — besides ratings — of getting Sanford on the air if you then promise to do a soft puff piece on the guy.

    On the other hand, 60 Minutes pulled its best ratings during a time when they had the reputation of springing traps on their subjects.

    Somebody like Sanford doesn’t want to appear? Give his time to his enemies. Or to his wife.

    It’s not just profits. They want the ratings win, the exclusive, and most of all, anchors and reporters want to belong to the Club, to be recognized as a celebrity in their own right.

    It’s about ego as much as it is about money.

    ninerdave — The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.

    How did Biden lose his slot in the line of succession? Or do I really not want to know?

  45. 45.

    JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN's Official Stalker

    and getting older every damn day, ninerdave. As they say, better than the alternative.

    I disagree. I find a unidirectional arrow of time to be oppressive and stultifying. I want the alternative.

    I just got back from seeing the first great film of the Iraq War: The Hurt Locker. There is one scene that defeated my sense of disbelief, but, beyond that, it was amazing. Everyone should see it.

    One thing I loved about it was that it felt no need to explain everything that was going on. There are a number of sequences after which, you have no idea what significant figures (typically Iraqis) were actually doing. It provides an air of confusion that is essential to capturing the environment.

    It also develops its characters without exposition and backstory. We learn who they are through what they say and the actions they take in the present. With the exception of one bit, they don’t ever talk about who they were before the story begins. They don’t have to. We know who they are without it. All of the pieces don’t fall together about a couple of them until the very end, but that is what it is about. It’s a character study, and isn’t in a hurry to reveal everything.

    I can’t recommend it highly enough.

  46. 46.

    WereBear

    Somebody like Sanford doesn’t want to appear? Give his time to his enemies. Or to his wife.

    I would be interested in what his wife has to say. But she has more sense than to spout off in public, it seems.

    Besides, what can one say in such an instance? “I have a Mason jar with his name on it.”

  48. 48.

    gnomedad

    @Brachiator:

    How did Biden lose his slot in the line of succession? Or do I really not want to know?

    Hillary was once a Young Republican or something, so perhaps her birth certificate can be considered valid.

    Whatever grudge she may hold against Obama, somehow I don’t think she will find this an Excellent Idea.

  50. 50.

    Steeplejack

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Believe me, I am painfully aware of my mutant thread-killing power. I just don’t know what causes it. I even managed to kill the thread where everyone was talking arguingwithsignposts off the window ledge.

    If only I could harness this power for mankind. I have a draft proposal up at GOS to drop me in-country at Free Republic, but I don’t have the fine-tuned control yet. I do have an appointment at Dr. Xavier’s institute next month to see what’s what.

  52. 52.

    JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN's Official Stalker

    how is that not treason? What would it take for something to be considered treason?

    US Constitution, Article III, Section 3: “Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.”

    The crime of treason in the US was defined very narrowly in our founding document. It is literally the case that nothing anyone could write meets the definition. Nothing anyone might do as an act of terrorism would constitute treason. It requires an overt act of warring against the country. That’s what it would take. The clowns at Free Republic won’t ever manage to do that.

  53. 53.

    passerby

    @Demo Woman:

    Happy Birthday Demo Woman–go sistah.

    Well, did you decide on steaks or what for that “free” demo labor provided by your son’s friends?

    And speaking of Netflix, my Coen brothers festival draws to an end tonight with the viewing of No Country for Old Men. Earlier this week it was Barton Fink (3 and half stars–outstanding sets), Miller’s Crossing (4 stars–c’mon it was filmed in NO) and Fargo (4 and a half stars). As always, their characters are…pointed and their selection of actors never disappoints.

    And, I hereby fully retract any misgivings I had about John Goodman as an actor. I guess some of it was seeing him commandeer attention by participating in some of the great New Orleans traditions like Mardi Gras. Guess I kinda resented his being a scene stealer–I regarded him as an interloper. But damn, he rocks as an actor. I won’t miss another of his films. (Oh, but I still hate O Brother Where Art Thou.)

  54. 54.

    geg6

    Laura W: I beg to differ! You’ll notice that said channeling included a lovely juice of the grape, fun music, dancing with animals, and a generally happy and light hearted air. Just how I picture you. Meanwhile, I’m singing: “Take a Chance on Meeeeee!”

  57. 57.

    Steeplejack

    @Laura W:

    Nice song. I like Natalie Merchant. And a nice guitar hook there. I just came from a Web site where I was lusting over gigantic Gretsch guitars.

    I think talking about the weather is one of the most boring things ever.

    That’s a cold shot.

    Currently I don’t have a car and am living the urban hiker lifestyle, so when I leave the man-cave the weather is of interest to me. Oops, sorry, more weather talk. I’ll just fuck off again, then, shall I?

  61. 61.

    ninerdave

    @JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN’s Official Stalker:

    The crime of treason in the US was defined very narrowly in our founding document. It is literally the case that nothing anyone could write meets the definition. Nothing anyone might do as an act of terrorism would constitute treason. It requires an overt act of warring against the country. That’s what it would take. The clowns at Free Republic won’t ever manage to do that.

    Oh but you failed to mention that you can twist “aid and comfort to the enemy” all sorts of interesting ways. Like, say reporting from Iraq, saying the Iraq war was a bad idea, being pro-choice.

    The wingnuts made an art out of that during BushCo’s reign of terror.

  62. 62.

    Demo Woman

    @PeakVT: I think so.. It was a slider and I still have the other piece of glass but I’m hesitant to touch it. I’m pretty sure that the way it shattered, it was tempered. The glass was close to 6′ and 10mm thick.
    I had read that some lower end Maax doors had problems but their upper end seemed fine. The door originally was 750.00 which is not much less that I could have bought a custom slider for.

  63. 63.

    wonkie

    My glass firescreen exploded one afgternoon for no apparent reason. Scared the hell out of the cats. For days afterwards they avoided what had previously been a favorite spot, the soft area rug in front of the fire.

    I hope everyone in the Demowoman household survived with no embedded glass shards.

    I would like to wander into the kitchen for a glass of wine but I am going to head to the bathroom for a vicoden instead. I’m having a full body scalp to ankles poison oak experience.

  64. 64.

    Laura W

    @Demo Woman: Happiest Birthday Ever, JL/DW!
    You were such a kind and welcoming presence for me since the first day I posted here, IIRC.
    You truly deserve All Good Things.
    Laura

  65. 65.

    ninerdave

    How did Biden lose his slot in the line of succession? Or do I really not want to know?

    I’m guessing it went something like this. He googled chain of succession and started checking off people:

    President: Obama, Evil
    VP: Biden, Evil
    Speaker of the House: Pelosi, Satan incarnate
    President Pro Tem of the Senate: Byrd, he’s dead.
    Secretary of State: Condi Rice. She’s cool. She should be prez.

  66. 66.

    Steeplejack

    @Demo Woman:

    I love that movie. Incongruous but great Brazilian music, good performances all around (whatever happened to Cara Buono?), and what is the ongoing joke with all the lunk-headed dates–oh, yeah, “a foolish consistency . . .”

    A good bookend to that movie would be either of Whit Stillman’s movies, Metropolitan or Barcelona.

    Edit: Oops, should have read your post all the way through. I hope your son is all right.

  67. 67.

    JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN's Official Stalker

    Oh but you failed to mention that you can twist “aid and comfort to the enemy” all sorts of interesting ways. Like, say reporting from Iraq, saying the Iraq war was a bad idea, being pro-choice.

    Sure, but the original question wasn’t about what it would take for intellectually dishonest ideologues to accuse someone of treason. It was what it would take to actually *be* treason. The answer to the latter is much, much narrower than the answer to the former.

  68. 68.

    Steeplejack

    @ninerdave:

    Great line I heard from a bus driver a few months ago: “You ain’t old until you’re cold.” Words to live by.

  69. 69.

    burnspbesq

    Just got back from seeing the American Ballet Theater perform “Romeo & Juliet.” Very well done. My kid, the dancer, was in hawg hev’n. And I do loves me some Prokofiev.

    On a completely different subject, I finally got around to listening to the new Wilco album last night. Killer. Probably the best work they’ve ever done.

  70. 70.

    ninerdave

    Side note to my above comment:

    In looking at the Chain of succession on Wikipedia

    Link

    I found the whole thing rather interesting. I knew the top three…but did not know that Byrd was in there. I’d think that SoS would be higher than him.

    Also I think we are safe as the Wolverines would have to knock off 5 people before we get to the first GOPer: Gates.

  71. 71.

    jeffreyw

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Thanks, been off and on looking for a replacement for my Olympus pocket camera, a 300Z that works fine enough for what it is, doesn’t do a very good job on the colors.

  73. 73.

    jl

    Not sure I like this ineffable Tunch and Lily business. Is Mr. Cole so in the thrall of cat and dog that he cannot sully their dignity with mere images anymore? And I remember Mr. Cole recently, in that rather touchingly naive human way, trying to convince himself that the Tunchinator ‘loved’ him -whatever that can mean to a cat.

    Clearly we know that T and L are alpha and beta mammals (not sure which is which). Some one needs to check on Cole and see whether his owners are treating him well.

    Oh well, Cole is lucky in his pets. I hope T and L have fun with him tonight, and do not give him a hard time.

  74. 74.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @geg6:

    Even my John is dancing around with Henry and Otis and me.

    Do you charge extra for that?

  77. 77.

    Laura W

    @geg6: You forgot to mention that I look like Gillian Anderson in your fantasies of me.
    And every single thing you imagine about me is TOTALLY TRUE.
    Until someone here meets me in person and proves otherwise.
    “Respect the delicate ecology of your delusions.”
    ~Angels in America

  80. 80.

    Tim F.

    Clearly we know that T and L are alpha and beta mammals (not sure which is which).

    You must be new. Tunch is so obviously in charge of that household it is not even funny.

  83. 83.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Thanks. Crested Flycatcher may well be right. It is certainly crested and I’ve watched several of them catching insects of some kind/

  84. 84.

    gwangung

    @burnspbesq:
    Hell yeah. First ballot HOFer.

    Maddux and Randy Johnson are the two dominant pictures of recent memory (one righty, one lefty).

  85. 85.

    PeakVT

    @Demo Woman: If it shattered into small, roughly equal pieces it was tempered. It might have been guaranteed to some degree, so look for a warranty.

  86. 86.

    Demo Woman

    @Just Some Fuckhead: John and I have that in common. My bias was based on the local paper, not sure about John’s. @Steeplejack: The movie is great. What a pleasant surprise. The scene where she is reviewing responses in the personal ads is hilarious.

  87. 87.

    burnspbesq

    @Laura W:

    That’s interesting … in my fantasies, you look like Dana Delaney and sound like Emily Watson. A potent combination.

  90. 90.

    Laura W

    @burnspbesq: Wow.
    Can I just say how exhilarated I am tonight to learn that so many of you fantasize about me?
    I might have to touch myself just thinking about you thinking about myself!

  91. 91.

    arguingwithsignposts

    Jumpin thread agin, but:

    and there is the flip side of the coin, in which the person asks “why did I have to be the one who was so fucked up?”

    Seriously, there are people who are so screwed on tight that they can get through dark times with the optimistic outlook. Why am I the person who goes to the dark corner? if i’m supposedly smart enough to graduate from grad school, why can’t I be the person who soldiers on?

    Why do I have to be the person who wishes he could believe in a God?

    Why did my brain have to be the one that was fucked up?

    Wheee! :(

  92. 92.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Litlebritdefrint

    they said probably to a raptor). It looks remarkably like your shot.

    i just googled some Great Crested Flycatcher images, and I think my bird and yours are this/ It’s not a raptor, I’m sure/

  95. 95.

    Demo Woman

    “Next stop Wonderland” is a great Saturday flick. It’s light, sweet, fun and has a wonderful soundtrack. My normal viewing habits tend to be more serious such as “The Visitor”, “Frozen River”, “Rachel gets Married” and an array of foreign films. All of them have excellent acting as well as an interesting story line but an untidy ending. “Next Stop Wonderland” has all of that plus the tidy ending. Philip Seymour Hoffman is outstanding and his limited role makes up for the weaknesses in the rest of the actors. The movie is 11 years old but is timeless.
    Definitely a good birthday movie.

  97. 97.

    Yutsano

    Also I think we are safe as the Wolverines would have to knock off 5 people before we get to the first GOPer: Gates.

    Umm…nope. He works for the Great Soshulist now, he’s tainted. Anyone else notice Gates is doing all kinds of rather neat stuff under Obama whereas under Dubya he just kinda sat there?

  98. 98.

    Fulcanelli

    @arguingwithsignposts: I’m listening. I’ve been there or somewhere close enough, and I made up my mind I wasn’t staying there. Hard to describe how much it sucks, I’ll admit.

  100. 100.

    AnotherBruce

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I got back to Seattle from a trip to the midwest and spotted this flycatcher. It confused the heck out of me because it had two white stripes across the back of the head. I don’t know if this was caused by some transition to maturity causing the feathers to mottle. But that is definitely the bird I saw.

  101. 101.

    robertdsc

    /imagines Tunch at the keyboard and mouse, meowing to himself as he ruins the site’s layout.

  103. 103.

    Demo Woman

    @arguingwithsignposts: I don’t know anyone who can just trod on their own. Even animals need other folks. When I hit a rough patch in my life, I sought help. Now for some good old fashion mom advice, you are sleeping very few hours which only adds to your turmoil. There were several nights that I would read Brad Delong’s site for two reasons, one I love economics and two at three or four in the morning it will put you to sleep.
    If your brain is fucked up then so is mine and I can guarantee you that several more of the posters are also.
    It’s time for you to take action. Keep track of your sugar and caffeine intake as well as any late night stimulus that you might have. Call and schedule an appt. with either your family doctor or a therapist and the most important check in often with us. We love you.
    Now I definitely sound like a mom.

  105. 105.

    Betsy

    @Laura W:
    OMG You have no idea how much I love a woman (or man) who can quote Angels in America off the cuff. “Catholics believe in forgiveness. Jews believe in Guilt.”

    @arguingwithsignposts:
    I didn’t read all of the other thread, so I’m sure I have nothing new to contribute. But – I hear you. I’ve had mild depression; my partner has been struggling with *severe* depression for years, to the point that I think it might mean he doesn’t finish his PhD, despite being brilliant, insightful, and a wonderful teacher. Smart ain’t got nothin’ to do with it. Depression is a stone bitch, and hard-to-treat depression is worse.
    So, you’ve probably heard all this a million times and I’m sorry if so, but I thought I’d share some things that have worked for me or people I know. I apologize if it seems like piling on; I’m well aware of how often things that work for one person don’t work for others. That said:
    Guided meditation. They have classes. If you don’t live in a populous enough area, there are lots of resources on the web.
    Yoga.
    Exercise.
    Sunshine (really.)
    Eating reasonably well.
    An excellent therapist, either alone or in combination with drugs that work for you. I wouldn’t recommend drugs alone; I think having a good therapist (preferably one who uses cognitive behavioral therapy, at least in part, which has been shown to be more effective than other methods) is key.
    Finally, making the effort (which can be herculean, I know) to stay in regular touch with close friends. Call, email, see face-to-face if they’re local. Don’t let the depression keep you from the people who’ve got your back.

  106. 106.

    Betsy

    @arguingwithsignposts:
    p.s. One thing that I’ve learned from living with someone with severe, debilitating depression is that it can seem overwhelming or impossible to do things that, to others, seem simple: making a phone call. Washing the dishes. Going for a walk. Talking to a friend. But my partner has found that one of the only things that helps him is when he forces himself past that inertia and actually does those things. Often that’s not possible. But if it is for you, I recommend it.

  108. 108.

    mcd410x

    grocery, a lil cooking, beach for some reading and sunset, mad men season 2 — need a suga momma so i can do this evryday

  109. 109.

    Laura W

    @Steeplejack:

    Although . . . linked in my mind with the above but somehow much better.

    That was very, very nice.
    I’m gonna have to sit here and drink some La Croix Cranberry/Raspberry to sober up to try to top that. Wow.

  110. 110.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Sorry I did not make myself clear they said the Crested Flycatcher had probably lost his tail feathers to a raptor.

    I don’t read to good neither:)

  112. 112.

    Laura W

    @Betsy:

    OMG You have no idea how much I love a woman (or man) who can quote Angels in America off the cuff.

    Well, it wasn’t really “off the cuff” since I’ve used it in other online venues since I first heard it. It just hit me as one of the most blindingly honest statements ever.
    Also, I have the DVDs here and plan to watch it all over again once I get settled in my new home. Angels in America, and Six Feet Under, are the best things HBO ever did, IMO (yeah yeah, Sopranos rocked too, but I would not watch that all over again.)

  114. 114.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Betsy:

    One thing that I’ve learned from living with someone with severe, debilitating depression is that it can seem overwhelming or impossible to do things that, to others, seem simple: making a phone call. Washing the dishes. Going for a walk. Talking to a friend.

    yeah, i know that feeling. right now, i wish someone would just come and sweep me up like i was an invalid. that’s how i feel. it’s a f**ked up feeling, because I know I’m better than that (not to denigrate). I don’t “look” like someone with a severe sickness, according to the winguttia, or even the regular business types.

    Like I mentioned before, would have been nice if i’d had a “read” illness that people would pitty me for. like back pain – it’s not something that shows up on a scan or elsewhere on your body, so you’re f**ked if it manifests.

    so i hurt. doesn’t show up on a scan, so what? right?

  115. 115.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    I think most people would disagree with you there, most people (on this board at least) would understand that there are some illnesses that don’t show up on scans, are rarely diagnosed properly, and are generally suffered in painful silence. Hang in there pal, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and nope it is not a train coming the other way.

  116. 116.

    Demo Woman

    @arguingwithsignposts: For me it was different, I did not realize what it felt like to live with out a knot in my stomach. Although I did not take medicine, after a year plus of talking to someone, I realized that it was gone.. It was like having an ulcer healed. You can do that also. Mine was invisible but now I have actually gained some weight which is a good thing.

  118. 118.

    Betsy

    @Laura W:
    Well, still. It is a fabulous line, and well-deployed by you, and you both know the line and that the play itself exists, etc. So I remain delighted. :)

  119. 119.

    Fulcanelli

    @Laura W: Six Feet Under was the most amazing series. A friend loaned me the DVD’s of the first two seasons and we were hooked. Went out and rented the rest and watched them in a matter of a few weeks. Totally addictive. The final episode left me dumbstruck and teary eyed like a fool. Never got hooked on a series like that before or since, with the possibility of Twin Peaks, which was good, and weird, and although we couldn’t wait for every episode, it was nowhere near the same caliber.

  120. 120.

    JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN's Official Stalker

    Ted Berg, baseball writer for Sports New York, outlined the manifesto for the artistic doctrine of Awesomeism yesterday. He really needs to complete the full version. It includes an image of the seminal Awesomeist painting “Vin Diesel and Usher Riding Into Battle on a Chariot Pulled by White Tigers.”

  121. 121.

    Betsy

    @Laura W:
    I was lucky enough to see it when it first opened on Broadway back in…94 was it? I was 14, and my dad took me to NYC for a short vacation. I’d read the play already and persuaded him to buy tickets (to both parts!!). It was amazing. Although I think my dad probably would not have been so willing if he’d known there was going to be full frontal. Sometimes there’s something to be said for parental ignorance.

  122. 122.

    arguingwithsignposts

    do everyone live with a dying pain/knot in their stomach? i’m continually amazed at this commentariat. i just had a gf leave that i really felt like is a death in my heart. it’s a continual knot in my stomach. how do you overcome? mhp don’t comprehend the loss. i’m not talking 20-yo mtv smiths stuff, but 40-yo stuff. ( or is that the same thing – i don’t feel like it is). again, just wondering.

  123. 123.

    gwangung

    @Betsy:

    I think that it’s impressive that you recognized it’s awesomeness at such an early age. I saw it on the early regional tours, and Part I really knocked me out (Part II somewhat less so).

    I recently did a production of Part II, and I think I appreciate its craft even more. It still stands up and still have things to say, even now (and perhaps more so, after the past eight years, if we had the wit to realize it).

  124. 124.

    Anne Laurie

    My son came over to help me install a shower door, the last step of my bathroom renovation and unfortunately, the door shattered. We are not sure what happened because the door did not have apparent cracks and was just leaning against a wall in my bedroom, adjacent to the bath and he simply picked it up. Imagine a 70 lb pieced of glass exploding and dissolving into thousands of pieces. Fortunately, he is okay except for several cuts and glass embedded all over his body.

    I was working on the sixtieth floor of a skyscraper with full floor-to-ceiling windows when one of them… cracked. The department’s acrophobe freaked out pretty thoroughly. But it was quite the learning experience for all of us — the panes were nearly an inch thick, and coated on both sides with some kind of polymer so resistant that the maintenance guys needed parrot-nosed pliers to cut the shards free. Dramatic as it looks on film, I can attest that nobody’s going through one of those windows unless they’ve got a pickup truck stashed in the men’s room.

  125. 125.

    Laura W

    @Fulcanelli:

    The final episode left me dumbstruck and teary eyed like a fool.

    I have the final season here to watch. I keep delaying it, for reasons I can’t articulate. Prolonging the anticipation and sweet reliving of it all? Not wanting it to be over again?
    I have never been more fully satisfied by a finale than I was by the final episode of 6FU. I thought it was beautiful, and perfect, and sublime. I can’t imagine a more fulfilling way to have ended that entire masterpiece.

  128. 128.

    Laura W

    @Steeplejack: No you didn’t! I linked that to you months ago! (or JSF? I thought it was you, though.)
    I love that song. Probably my top 3 Elton of all time song.

  129. 129.

    Demo Woman

    @arguingwithsignposts: Somethings only you can answer. I did not realize how bad I felt until one day I woke up feeling better. It’s been over a year and that feeling has not reappeared. Personally therapy was invaluable to me. I do feel for you because that knot is not describable for folks who have not experienced it.
    What did you major in? Decades and decades ago, I wanted to get my master in accounting but life got in the way.

  130. 130.

    Demo Woman

    @Laura W: Not in response to this post but I did want to mention how much I enjoyed the site with the fun prints that you linked on last night. I think you should get the sail boats though.

  131. 131.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Ah now we get to the point of it. When I discovered that my ex-husband was having an affair I had a permanent knot in my stomach. I gave him the opportunity to end the affair and work on the marriage. He chose not to. I then chose to walk away, literally, packing up all my belongings (and the dog) into my father’s car one Saturday, while my husband was on the golf course (as always, he was after all screwing the daughter of the manager of the golf course). I woke the next morning to the slap of my brother’s hand on my arse with a “did he ever hit you? cause you know if he did we are gonna have to kill him” I assured my brother that he did not ever hit me. He left satisfied that family honor was not needed to be revenged. However, I will say this, IT IS A HILL, and I have said this to many others over the years, the breakup of a relationship or a divorce is a hill, which needs to be climbed, you will never see the top, but one day, one glorious day you will reach the top and you will look over the other side and you will say “damn I am going to make it” you will look down the other side of the hill and know that you can run down there. I speak from someone who met their mate because we both agreed “we would never get married again”, just this last week we celebrated our 18th wedding anniversary, 19th of meeting. July 14, 1990. It does get better, it does turn a corner, you WILL get over that hill.

  132. 132.

    Steeplejack

    @Laura W:

    On the way out the door, I swear.

    This connects to the other: “Coconut Grove”.

    It’s all from havin’ someone knowin’
    just which way your head is blowin’
    . . .
    It’s really true how nothing matters
    No mad, mad world and no mad hatters

  133. 133.

    Doctor Science

    General Winfield Stuck:

    I believe your bird is probably an Ash-throated Flycatcher, though the colors look a bit off. Listen to the call there to confirm. It certainly appears to be in the genus Myiarchus.

    In your hummers, you have Black-chinned, Rufous, Calliope, at least.

    Meanwhile in NJ, the Red-Tailed Hawk chick has fledged. How do we know? Because it’s started YELLING for FOOD, and will do so during all daylight hours for at least 3 weeks.

    Teenagers.

  135. 135.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Doctor Science:

    I have teenage Bluejays (boy are they loud), teenage Cardinals, (wing flappy thingy) and teenage Chickadees, all following their parents begging for food (despite the fact that they are more than capable of getting their own) I LOVE this time of year.

  137. 137.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Doctor Science:

    Sorry forgot to add I was at a particular wildlife spot a couple of years ago and another fellow traveller said “have you been to so and so they have a Hawk nest” I had not heard of the spot so I drove there and while I could not see the nest I heard this most incredible squawking, like you would not believe, I kept looking around and then I saw it, one large very vocal chick in the nest while Mom and Dad flew above him, man that was one loud baby! I can imagine what you are hearing.

  139. 139.

    Mary G

    arguing with signposts:

    Not sure what to say, except keep hijacking threads as much as you need to.

    Pain in your soul might not show up on a scan, but it’s none the less real. In fact, I’d much rather have a broken leg than the blues because you do get help and sympathy without having to ask for it, you can get a cast put on and it heals up and goes away in a month or two. Depression just doesn’t work like that. It’s two steps forward, three steps back, six steps forward, four back, so you have to expend a ton of energy just to end up one step ahead.

    I posted the other day about finally getting on three anti-depressants and being liberated from the black dog that had ridden me for years and after reading it again I sound like I’m saying “That fixed me, I’ve never had any problems again.”

    So wrong. I still have to do all the other things like meditate and exercise and talk to people and fall off the wagon, as it were, all the time. It just sucks big time.

    It helps me to imagine that I am two people, one the sick sad person and one the public functional Mary who gets out of bed and goes to the grocery store and takes out the trash, etc. I sort of use that part of myself to “sweep me up as if I was an invalid.” Today I was going to a meeting that I really, really didn’t want to and feeling so blue and useless, because it’s a good volunteer cause, I should want to go, blah blah blah. Finally Public Mary said, “Well, what do you want to do instead?” and it came to me immediately that I wanted to go see the new Harry Potter movie (insert all the snark you want here, I love me some Harry Potter) and go to the beach. I decided to give myself permission to do that. I was driving up the 405 freeway, there were movie theaters coming up, and the world isn’t going to come to an end if I miss a meeting.

    I felt so much better that I just kept going, went to the meeting, stayed the absolute minimum time I had to, and came home happy planning to see the movie sometime next week and go to the beach tomorrow.

    A therapist told me once that instead of trying to fight my depression, I should just relax and embrace it. At the time that sounded like the single stupidest thing anyone had ever told me. But today, I realized that my depression was a symptom, it was trying to tell me that I was spending too much time taking care of other people and not enough time taking care of Mary. Tonight I was going to do paperwork and stuff on my desk, but I am instead reading blogs I love and listening to Vin Scully broadcast the Dodgers game. After listening to Tim McCarver and the other yahoos at the All Star game, it’s like getting a promotion from heaven to hell.

    So, signposts, I’m hearing that you had your friend come for a day or two and talked to Chuck & John and others and feel like you should be fixed and all better already. In the immortal words of Dana Carvey “Na gonna happen.”

    I have gone on and on and I’m not sure moderation will post something this long, but while I’m at it, here’s one more thing:

    Autobiography in five chapters

    1) I walk down the street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
    I fall in.
    I am lost… I am hopeless.
    It isn’t my fault.
    It takes forever to find a way out.

    2) I walk down the same street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
    I pretend I don’t see it.
    I fall in again.
    I can’t believe I’m in the same place.
    But it isn’t my fault.
    It still takes a long time to get out.

    3) I walk down the same street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
    I see it is there.
    I still fall in… it’s a habit
    My eyes are open
    I know where I am
    it is my fault.
    I get out immediately.

    4) I walk down the same street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
    I walk around it.

    5) I walk down another street.

    You are only on the first page of Chapter 1. Relax, tilt your head back and admire the stars for a minute then figure out what you’re going to try first to get out.

  140. 140.

    Demo Woman

    @Litlebritdifrnt: When I was going through a difficult time two baby great horned owls perched outside my kitchen window. I lived on a hillside so the kitchen was pretty high up. They stared trying to figure out what I was. It happened several days in a row and one time the mutt and I went outside. Over head appeared a great shadow and both mom and pop watched us intently. The owls must have been pretty young because most great horned owls are let loose pretty early. Moxie would have been mince meat for these birds since she’s only 18 lbs
    I always thought that it was a sign, but I could never figure what kind.
    Well it’s after midnight and the birthday is over, so I’m off to sleep…

  141. 141.

    Anne Laurie

    Like I mentioned before, would have been nice if i’d had a “real” illness that people would pitty me for. like back pain – it’s not something that shows up on a scan or elsewhere on your body, so you’re f**ked if it manifests.

    Bitter laughter from the back-pain sufferer. Believe me, there are plenty of people who think all back-pain sufferers are (at best) malingers milking their laziness & bad character for undeserved sympathy. There are those who assume that people in electric wheelchairs are just lazy pigs who can’t be bothered going to the gym. (I have a friend waiting on a heart transplant, and the not-quite-stage-whispers from misguided strangers who believe that only a lack of moral fiber ties her to a scooter & an oxygen tank would sour the Dalai Lama.)

    Bottom line: A predictable percentage of the human population are just giant, honking arseholes. What these arseholes choose to believe is not your problem. Your problem is giving yourself the tools and the time to get yourself well; all else is commentary. The whole what-will-people-think monologue is one more tool in the Logic Robot’s armoury, and right now the Logic Robot is not your friend.

    A small thing, one tool that has helped me and others when we feel like we’re racing down the dark corridor with all the escape doors slamming shut: Make a written note of every task you accomplish. Keep this list where you can read it first thing in the morning & last thing at night. Sure, it may seem accomplishments like ‘got completely dressed today’ or ‘washed the dishes’ or ‘read a whole chapter & remembered what I was reading’ are hardly worth memorializing… but it really *can* be inspirational to note the tiny markers of improvement, and to see (as you *will* see, someday) that the list is getting longer and the tasks harder.

  143. 143.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Doctor Science:

    You know your Hummers. We also have Broad Tailed but they have been absent recently. And I think your right about the Ash Colored Flycatcher/ The Geographic distribution is right for the desert SW, where I’m at. Great Crested doesn’t match up for here/

  144. 144.

    Anne Laurie

    Iam completely serious when I say this: sometimes country music is the only way to process the pain.

    Many years ago, I went to an Ann Hill (folkie) concert where she said, “Everybody makes fun of country music until the go through their first divorce.” Or, I would add, their first depression.

  145. 145.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Demo Woman:

    It was a sign that you are a really good person, who the Owls chose to leave their babies with, for a time, until they knew how to fly. Birds are smart, Owls are the mensa candidates of birds, they knew. You is good people.

  147. 147.

    Fulcanelli

    @Laura W: I think that episode was the reason someone coined the word ‘bittersweet’. I think it won a few awards.

    I do have a few DVD’s, but I’m not one to buy movies and watch them over and over again. I’ve thought of watching the whole series all over again, but I’m almost afraid to for the same reasons you mentioned. I don’t want to possibly spoil the imprint it left on me. I remember it like it was last night.

  148. 148.

    stibbert

    a sheet of tempered glass can be weird stuff – the tempering process adds internal stress to the sheet – when a small scratch or imperfection occurs, you get surprising results!

    the tempering process heats the outside surfaces of the glass, which is then allowed to cool. this puts the sheet into tension-stress – when this internal stress is released, the whole sheet collapses ‘explosively’ as the stress is released.

    this self-destruction is better, ‘cos it collapses into little sharp pebbles instead of large sword-shards. Still, ya gotta comb the remnants outta your hair, & dig them outta your skin (where the wounds can get infected, ‘specially if a bit of glass remains). Possible wounds to eyeballs don’t bear thinking about.

    ‘automotive’ safety-glass is tempered, but it’s layered w/ a plastic sheet. When it breaks, the pebbles stay adhered to the plastic-layer instead of flying out into space or into your face.

    after a tempered-glass accident, y’all need to vacuum the area thoroughly (not all the pebbles will be large enough to see), then you’ve gotta take a comprehensive shower.

  149. 149.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Demo Woman: Happy birthday. Sorry about the shattering experience, but I’m glad to hear that your son is OK.

    @arguingwithsignposts: Do not apologize. If this is what you need to do to hang on, then keep posting. You want some honest truth? Sometimes, the knot doesn’t go away. Not completely. Sometimes, the best you can do is learn how to manage the knot and how to get around it.

    I really have no advice for you in how to beat this insidious thing called depression except try to do one thing a day that makes you feel good. Whether it’s taking a shower or playing your guitar or watching a movie. Do something to boost your pleasure sensors.

    In addition, reach out to the people in your life. You don’t have to tell them you are depressed (though it can help). Just talk to them and arrange to get together with them. One of the worst things about being depressed is the accompanying isolation. That’s when the voices in your brain can really focus their attacks on you.

    I hope you are sleeping. I am a big fat hypocrite to be talking about sleep, but it really is important for a stable mood (thus, the reason I am on perma-crank).

    Different subject. I saw the newest Harry Potter tonight, and it’s the best yet. There is MUCH MORE Snape. Oh, the hotness. Oh, the perfect diction. Oh, the black clothing goodness. Plus, there are a few scenes with Lupin (though not enough), and Bellatrix LaStrange is so damn sexy. Sure, she is crazy as hell, but sexy, nonetheless.

    I highly recommend the movie!

  152. 152.

    Maude

    @arguingwithsignposts:
    I’m way at the end of this thread.
    I heard on the radio that they have seen depression on a brain scan.
    I don’t have depression, but I have suffered the knot in gut a lot in my life.
    You have people on this blog who think about you and wonder how you are doing.
    You do soldier on, you keep going when it’s hard.
    I have found that yelling does help. It has to be where no one can hear me.
    I have chronic pain. I was called three kinds of crazy until it became evident that the pain was indeed there. Took about 2 and a half years. I ranted to myself and it helped.
    I don’t don’t look bad, unless my looks were compared to when I was well.
    The “why me” is not off base. You don’t deserve this.
    I’ll look around for the information on the scans.

  153. 153.

    CynDee

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    I went for counseling for depression, had to shop for a good one. Finally had a succession of people and each had something that helped some.

    At one point I was ashamed because all I was doing was lying on the couch; I just couldn’t seem to rouse myself to do ANYTHING.

    The counselor said, “You were preserving yourself. That’s what animals do; they retreat and preserve themselves. Never be ashamed of doing what you need to, even if it means NOT doing.

    When you can, just do ANYTHING. Even if it’s walking across the room and coming back.

    There’s a reason for what’s going on, and you don’t have to try to explain to anyone, and you don’t deserve it. Try letting yourself rest more. At one point I was told that I never had any enjoyment, just DO DO DO for others. I learned to say No more often to others and Yes more often to me. I was given an affirmation, “It is most important to please ME.” Not saying this is for everyone, or that I am judging anyone, but the best thing for me was when I realized how very bad the religiosity in my church was; have been so much better since giving up the cult that passes for organized religion. I don’t need anybody getting between God and me. Just saying.

  154. 154.

    cliff

    tempered glass = Don’t scratch it!

    Its Very strong until it finds that critical weakness (scratch) + heat differential, sudden shock, uneven clamping force .. its all about the balance of tension in the glass.

    for a fireplace door, it might have been a screw that was tighter than the rest holding the glass in.

Comments are closed.