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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Then they came for Ben Smith

Then they came for Ben Smith

by | 120 Comments

This post is in: 

A birfer BJ commenter calling himself Details about Ben Smith links back to a crazy birfer website. It’s good stuff:

1. He only “produced” it to FactCheck, and the same page where they have pictures of the cert – pictures that they later compressed and removed EXIF data from – contains the blatant lie that Hawaii verified where Obama was born.

A couple other questions: are there a lot of birfers in the Politico comments? Has Drudge gotten on the birfer bandwagon?

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  1. 1.

    HyperIon

    you asked: Has Drudge gotten on the birfer bandwagon?

    i ask: Have you guys gotten on that bandwagon? Please, enough. They are crazy. We knew that last week. Have you forgotten? They will still be crazy next week.

  2. 2.

    Zandar

    Dude, I’m not going in there without a full level 4 biohazard suit, 300+ points of energy shielding and that gun that shoots saw blades from Dead Space. No way.

    There’s birthers in there.

  3. 3.

    J.D. Rhoades

    It’s the hallmark of the true loony conspiracy theory: every fact produced to refute it is cited as further proof of just how fiendish the conspiracy is and how far its tentacles extend. You could call it the Loon Event Horizon.

  4. 4.

    MikeJ

    Bwahahaha! You linked to lonewacko. He’s been trolling mig media matt for years, begging people to link to him. I don’t know if he’s really as deranged as he seems or just a kink whore.

  5. 5.

    Keith

    I wouldn’t say that Drudge has jumped onto the bandwagon, as he’s still posting links to WH responses, but the Politico does have a significant percentage of comments that are pro-birfer (I’d place it at about 10-15% myself, but I can only stand about 20 or so Politico comments before I go insane by the repetition of pro-birfer, anti-birfer, and “Why aren’t you covering the REAL story…Obama bringing about socialism?”

  6. 6.

    steve s

    HARKEN
    Birfers?

    MAL
    That’s what I said.

    HARKEN
    Can’t imagine how many times men in my
    position hear that excuse. “Birfers did it.”

    MAL
    It’s the truth.

    HARKEN
    You saw them, did you?

    MAL
    Wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you
    if I had.

    HARKEN
    No. Of course not.

    MAL
    But I’ll tell you who did — that poor bastard
    you took off my ship. He looked right into the
    face of it. Was made to stare.

    HARKEN
    “It?”

    MAL
    The tardness. Kinda tardness you can’t even
    imagine. Tarder than the GOP space it moves in.

    HARKEN
    Very poetic.

    MAL
    They made him watch. He probably tried to
    turn away — they wouldn’t let him. You call
    him a “survivor?” He’s not. A man comes up
    against that kind of will, only way to deal with
    it, I suspect… is to become it. He’s following
    the only course that’s left to him. First he’ll
    try to make himself look like one… cut on himself,
    desecrate his own flesh… then he’ll start acting
    like one.

  8. 8.

    MikeJ

    The darkness. Kinda darkness you can’t even
    imagine. Blacker than the space it moves in.

    Evil? You want to see evil? I went hiking today. Blackberries are evil.

  9. 9.

    wilfred

    @J.D. Rhoades:

    It’s fun, too. This is from Snopes:

    When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.
    “I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone,” said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98.

    All. Dead. The odds on that happening are 329,076,452,999.200,178 to 1. How did they die, where are the death reports, the dental records, the gas bills?

  10. 10.

    Keith G

    Doug, the times I’ve checked out Politico’s comments, my eyes were burned by the craziness. Full of brick bag stupid.

    So, yeah, Birthers and many other critters.

  11. 11.

    David

    It’s my understanding that the idea for the original Fake Birth Certificate rumor started out as a scam on a fake African news site and has now morphed into a cottage industry for World Nut Daily and assorted societal parasites.

    Birthers, if you feel this is an important issue, please send Orlytaitz® some money. Mortgage your house and send her the proceeds. Go for it.

  12. 12.

    SpotWeld

    You would have thought, that the Repbulican Gov. of Hawaii stating, *while campaigning for McCain*, that Obama was born in Hawaii would have pretty much put this all to rest by now.

  14. 14.

    Brick Oven Bill

    The doubters don’t need that stuff Wilfred. Just the same access that Barack gave Joe Miller, of Fact Check, as funded by Annenberg. We are assuagable, transparency and all.

    It is irresponsible to let this keep going. It even appears that Balloon Juice is getting more concerned about the birth certificate than Sarah Palin.

    That tells you something.

  16. 16.

    geg6

    Oh, Doug. Please save yourself and never, never, never wade into Politico’s comments. If you value your eyes or sanity, that is. Just consider them perpetually tagged as “I Read This Shit So You Don’t Have To,” mkay?

  17. 17.

    Walker

    Doug:

    “Details about Ben Smith” is a well known link-whore from Matt Yglesias’ site (Where he goes by his site name 24AheadDotCom — but the locals call him LoneWacko). Please don’t give him traffic.

  19. 19.

    Ben

    Is that really five Birther posts today? You can, of course, write about whatever you want, but why the sudden interest? Is it just the Inhofe thing?

    And yes, Politico’s comment sections make me want to gouge out my eyes.

  20. 20.

    Ailuridae

    @Tiparillo:

    The American citizenry could use more Neil Abercrombiess in Washington. He’s a pile of shit-kicking progressive awesome.

  21. 21.

    wilfred

    I never got over the end of Blogs for Brownback and have longed for a crackpot site to replace it. I’m going to be a regular on the birfer sites.

    I fucking love conspiracy theory; it’s like the expanding universe. Periodically I dust off a paper I’ve been working on for years – The Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory. I even got the Knights Templars into Marilyn Monroe’s bedroom (holy grail was involved but I don’t want to go into moderation).

    Raised seals, the seal of the prophets, birth, death, Hawaii, Atlantis.

    Leave it to me.

  23. 23.

    joes527

    @SpotWeld:

    You would have thought, that the Repbulican Gov. of Hawaii stating, while campaigning for McCain, that Obama was born in Hawaii would have pretty much put this all to rest by now.

    Bah. The McCain campaign was an elaborate false flag operation intent on:

    1) Getting Barry Soweto elected.

    2) Bringing down an actual true real American by putting her in the #2 slot and then turning lose the gotcha-media on her.

  24. 24.

    geg6

    lotus: Much as I find great entertainment in the birther nonsense, I must agree. Baucus frightens and pisses me off more than any birther garbage.

  25. 25.

    SpotWeld

    Considering that Joe Miller has passed on all the information he gathered then everyone reading FactCheck has, but communicative propertive, gained the same level of access.

    Ergo BOB should shut up.

    QED.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MikeJ: I really wish I had thought to take a photo back in 1999 when blackflies in northern Ontario drilled inch-deep HOLES in my calves. I bled so much my white socks were soaked through with gore. The scars have faded now but there are still little dents to remind me. Blackberries might be evil, but blackflies are eviller.

  30. 30.

    DougJ

    The link is to Lonewhacko reborn as 24Ahead. He has a storied history on the intertrons.

    Apparently I am not familiar with all internet traditions.

  32. 32.

    jl

    As I mentioned in a previous thread, they are already talking in an incomprehensible code language. I think that is a positive development. For one it is a reliable signal identifying ‘total nutso’ that can be immediately identified byt the average person. For two, it will be fun to make fun of their codes.

  33. 33.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Sully, with all of his influence and contacts, has had a year to look at this issue and make his judgment. Shortly after he publishes his opinion, he does a 180. This 180 does not address the fact that there is a paper copy on file in Chicago, as documented by Fact Check, that nobody is allowed to view.

    Not a good day for Sully.

  36. 36.

    Lowkey

    Actually, Lotus, a thought has been forming in my mind. I will agree that this doesn’t matter, matter, the way policy matters, but one of the biggest hurdles progressive policy faces is the noise machine. Look at the reaction to the President’s recent health care address. Was it dry? Sure, but loaded with policy talk. Villagers hate, Hate, HATE policy talk, because it’s awful TV. So what was the story? “President Obama Dares Bore White House Press Corps, Dooms Reform, Also Hates Heroic Cops.”

    What if we can change the story? Play it the other way? Let the Birfers and GOP and Village scream at each other a while. Let it really and truly get out of hand in the media, while 75% of the country sits there watching the screen, wondering what the heck these loons are going on about. Then, we have a message that can work. “Can you truly be fiscally responsible/strong on defense/morally superior if you are batshit bonkers? Would you trust someone who’s barking mad to balance your checkbook, never mind fix the economy?” Let’s give these people a chance to eat each other.

  37. 37.

    geg6

    BOB: You’ve really lost it now, dude. Seriously, you need help. A secret copy in Chicago now??

  38. 38.

    jl

    @Brick Oven Bill: From what I have seen, the Balloon Juice Community is also obsessively concerned with Tunch the Cat’s bedtime snacks and weight, Lily the Dog’s grooming supplies, filthy rolling on the ground habits,and every detail of her psychological adjustment to pampered pet-hood. There is also frequent speculation on when Tunch will have had enough and gets rid of John Cole.

    That, should tell you something, my friend.

  43. 43.

    David

    Please note that no one had thought to look into Barack Obama’s background before The Birthers did.

  44. 44.

    Thlayli

    BOB:

    Given that the governmental agency responsible in this case has confirmed that the COLB from the Obama website/FactCheck story is genuine, why do you need to physically handle it?

  45. 45.

    jl

    @geg6: Who me? None, no problem at all. Didn’t say a thing.

    I probably should have mentioned the obsessive food trivia and recipes here, but I do not pay that much attention to them… except for RAMPS!
    and
    the raucus debate on the history of ketchup (which was a real knock-down drag-out free-for-all obsessive fest one night).

  46. 46.

    DougJ

    What Max Baucus is trying to pull matters.

    I don’t trust the AP enough as a source. I’ll wait til I see something about that in the Times or Post.

  47. 47.

    MikeJ

    I probably should have mentioned the obsessive food trivia and recipes here,

    I’m going to have lemon quinoa risotto tonight. Preserved lemons…..mmmmmm.

  49. 49.

    wilfred

    A secret copy in Chicago now??

    Yes, known as CC2a (Chicago Codex 2 a). Purportedly engraved with rhincoceros blood over the stretched out skin taken from a white Christian infant sacrificed by Jomo Kenyatta and the Mau-Mau and exchanged for Captain Cook’s scrotum, itself used as a wampum belt, or sack, by Hawaiian islanders who killed the famed English explorer shortly before the American Revolution.

  50. 50.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Annenberg’s Bob Miller got to physically handle it Thlayli. The legitimate concern is that the President may be a compromised man. The Columbia records are out there too, hidden for now. I suspect that the Wall Street crowd has access to the Columbia records.

    He has a responsibility, in my opinion, to be transparent.

  51. 51.

    jcricket

    Doug, the times I’ve checked out Politico comments, my eyes were burned by the craziness. Full of brick bag stupid.

    Fixed.

  53. 53.

    MikeJ

    this is an access violation waiting to happen.

    Not nearly enough jokes about race conditions and hanging pointers here. Bravo cleek.

  55. 55.

    kay

    @geg6:

    There is an electronic record. There is a capability to produce a paper copy from that electronic record. There is a paper copy, with a raised seal. That’s a birth certificate. It doesn’t matter if it’s a “long form” or the original birth certificate. I don’t have my original birth certificate, and I have never had a single person challenge the copy with the raised seal, nor have I ever heard of that happening.
    They continue to insist that “no one” may view and handle this paper copy. What they mean is all 15 million birthers cannot view and handle this paper copy.
    They want to see the birth certificate, and by “see” I mean one of the lunatics has to handle it, physically, or they will not accept that it exists.

  56. 56.

    SpotWeld

    If it’s a copy that has been seen, touched and photographed… and everyone knows about it..

    How The Heck is it a “Secret Copy”

    BOB… seriously. Go away

  57. 57.

    Thlayli

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Annenberg’s Bob Miller got to physically handle it

    So?

    Why do you have to physically handle it? What do you think you’re going to learn?

  58. 58.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Glenn Beck sucks Spotweld. Gibbs is very smart. And with that, I’m going away.

  59. 59.

    Josh Huaco

    Dear Birthers,

    Please produce proof that Saddam did 9/11. I want to touch it, hold it, kiss it, squeeze it and call it George. In actuality, just shut up about Obama’s birth certificate. It’s laughable that you didn’t need proof of wrongdoing prior to supporting a war that killed thousands.

  61. 61.

    geg6

    Kay: Oh, I’m well aware of how birth certificates work and the history of this particular one. BOB has frequently stated here ad infinitum that he would only be satisfied with the “original” or “vault copy.”. Which all sane people know is now just an electronic record that resides in Hawaii and is accessible to only the certifying official. This typical official copy, just like the one I have from the state of PA, would not fit his previous demands. Though perhaps he’s giving up on the impossible and is finally willing to settle for the same proof that the Department of State does.

  63. 63.

    MikeJ

    All birth certificates from Hawai’i taste like mangoes. Really, getting to lick the original is the only way to be sure.

  64. 64.

    Comrade Jake

    @Walker:

    LMAO at 24AHeaddotcom! That dude is always trolling Yglesias’ page. He’s one raw, unadulterated, certified, grade-A, batshit-crazy wingnut.

  65. 65.

    kay

    @SpotWeld:

    They want a federal judge to verify that the paper copy produced from the electronic record actually exists.
    They have the verification from the custodian of the record, and any court in the country would accept that, but they think she’s lying, so they want the judge to verify that the custodian of the record is telling the truth.
    It’s circular. The judge would ask the custodian of the record to verify the record, actually. He can handle the birth certificate, I guess, but he’s a federal judge. He doesn’t authenticate Hawaii birth certificates. She does, and she did.

  66. 66.

    geg6

    SpotWeld: Ewwww, dude. I had no idea. Well, at least YOU’RE not sucking HIM. I’d lose all respect for you in that case.

  67. 67.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @DougJ:

    I don’t trust the AP enough as a source. I’ll wait til I see something about that in the Times or Post.

    That made me laugh.

  68. 68.

    cosanostradamus

    .
    The whole “birfer” thing makes an excellent diversion, for both sides. They’re all hoping maybe nobody will notice that healthcare is being scuttled, or that we’re taking yet another step in the Vietnamization of the Afghan war. So far, it’s working.

    BTW, in Hawaii, a birth certificate is called a “Certificate Of Live Birth.” The other option is a certificate of dead birth, I guess. Obama does not have the latter, only the former. So we know he’s alive, and an American. Sorry, birfers. You lose AGAIN! Get used to it.
    .

  70. 70.

    kay

    @geg6:

    I just can’t get over that someone would look at their birth certificate, an original, and from that conclude that Obama’s copy is invalid. That’s what the crazy lady in the tape does.
    I can’t imagine the confusion over driver’s licenses. Yours probably doesn’t look like mine. From that I conclude yours is suspect? This is a mental illness.

  72. 72.

    MikeJ

    …and Michele Bachmann just blocked the resolution.

    Dec 7 is gonna be fun this year.

  73. 73.

    Jon H

    @Walker: ““Details about Ben Smith” is a well known link-whore from Matt Yglesias’ site (Where he goes by his site name 24AheadDotCom—but the locals call him LoneWacko). Please don’t give him traffic.”

    I first saw him at Hit & Run. He followed Weigel over to the Washington Independent, too.

    But no matter where he goes, he’s still mocked and ridiculed. Not that it stops him.

  74. 74.

    The Cat Who Would Be Tunch

    @MikeJ:

    Excuse my ignorance but what’s the relationship with December 7? There’s Pearl Harbor but I’m not sure how Bachmann blocking the bill has anything to do that with that.

  75. 75.

    me

    FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate.
    Bad day for Sully.

    Sully’s post and Factcheck do not contradict. If you read them, you’d know why.

  76. 76.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    No new birther threads in over an hour? Is the site experiencing technical difficulties?

  78. 78.

    MikeJ

    Excuse my ignorance but what’s the relationship with December 7? There’s Pearl Harbor but I’m not sure how Bachmann blocking the bill has anything to do that with that.

    Pearl Harbor. Congress will make a resolution about Pearl Harbor, and how wonderful Hawai’i is, and how they gave us a president. And the wingnuts will have to block a salute to the brave men in uniform who died to protect our freedom.

  79. 79.

    Montysano

    OK, I’ll bite: what’s the deal with Obama’s school records? Yeah, I know, I can Google it, but I don’t wanna go…. out there. The crazy is startin’ to concern me.

  80. 80.

    Tonal Crow

    @wilfred: And why did Vince Foster, Hillary Clinton, and Tunch O’Cole commission the sociàlist Black Helicopter Brigades to do the dastardly deed?

  81. 81.

    steve s

    @kay:

    Approximately 14% of the US population have IQs below 85. That works out to about 42 million people.

  83. 83.

    JasonF

    Rep. Bachman didn’t block it — she just objected to a voice vote, which means there will have to be a quorum and then everybody will have to go on record as voting for or against the resolution. How many Republicans do you think are happy about that? I swear, that woman must be a secret Democratic operative for all the harm she causes the GOP.

  84. 84.

    burnspbesq

    OT, a DVR alert:

    Howard Dean is guest-hosting Olbermann’s show tomorrow and Wednesday.

  85. 85.

    WingNutz

    @MikeJ: And now it’s gonna be a roll call. So all the great and proud patriots can voice, one at a time, their support for our nation’s elected leader.

    @Montysano: Something about his grades not being up to snuff. Gentlemen’s Cs are solely reserved for sons of rich white folk.

  87. 87.

    robertdsc

    What Max Baucus is trying to pull matters.

    I called it the other day. Baucus went with the co-op plan.

    Now if only the President would lock the Senate in a vise by saying he will veto a co-op plan, with the White House on one side, the House of Reps on the other, and the Senate in the middle. But he won’t because the Senate plan has “bipartisan” support.

    My take is that he’ll support that instead of a public option precisely because it’s “bipartisan”. Commence the screwing, Mr. President. Just as you’ve done for everything else.

  88. 88.

    ppcli

    “..and Michele Bachmann just blocked the resolution.
    This is getting more fun by the hour”
    .
    Sweet: She blocked it *for lack of a quorum* when it was about to pass by voice vote. Does she realize this may force her fellow repubs to actually go on record voting yes or no when the bill is reintroduced to a packed house? This will make her popular I’m sure.

  89. 89.

    Martin

    Approximately 14% of the US population have IQs below 85.

    That doesn’t add up. At least 27% of the population are Republicans.

  90. 90.

    HumboldtBlue

    He has a responsibility, in my opinion, to be transparent.

    BOB just wants to see Obamas cock to determine if it’s … well .. umm .. to determine if it’s really, really true. What they say. And stuff.

  92. 92.

    geg6

    Michelle Bachman…the gift that keeps on giving. Gawd, I love that woman! Oh, and my apologies to all sane Minnesotans.

  96. 96.

    Cyrus

    @Walker:

    “Details about Ben Smith” is a well known link-whore from Matt Yglesias’ site (Where he goes by his site name 24AheadDotCom—but the locals call him LoneWacko). Please don’t give him traffic.

    They (we, I guess) call him LoneWacko because that’s what he used to call himself. Let’s be clear, here. This is not a case of people giving a mean nickname to someone they’re familiar with but don’t like; this is a case of a nutty person who nonetheless has the veneer of sanity needed to poke fun at himself, losing that veneer.

  97. 97.

    mai naem

    I am one who never believed the birther crap but having my very liberal sister, yesterday, making a comment about it – “well, maybe you never know” forced me to look it up. The point I am making is that if I can be convinced to even look it up is not exactly saying something positive about the WH’s dealing with the issue.
    As far as the actual issue – I’ve lived in Kenya. First, there’s not a whole lot of white people there. There were more these in the early 60s but trust me, a white American woman would have stood out. And a white woman married to a black guy would have stood out more in Kenya than here. And surely a heavily pregnant woman would have stood out even more. And oh yeah, Kenya’s independence was in 1963 and the violent Mau Mau revolution would have been going on there. And do remember the Mau Mau revolution was partly about white farmers and native black Kenyans. Was Ann Dunham so stupid that she would take her pregnant self there at that time? BTW remember this is in the 60s when you were thought to be “fragile” while you are pregnant. I can’t believe there were a whole lot of Americans who went to Kenya in the early sixties and I find it hard to believe that somebody wouldn’t have some kind of paperwork showing that Ann Dunham had been there. Forget all that though. They claim Obama was born in Mombasa. Mombasa is on the eastern coast of Kenya off the Indian ocean. Kisumu where his Dad was from is in western Kenya. Nairobi,the capital, where the dad worked was is in central Kenya. I haven’t read anywhere that the dad was in Mombasa for work or family. Even after he went back, he lived in Nairobi and around Kisumu. This is a third world country where the roads are still rough. A road trip from Nairobi to Mombasa is a rough whole day trip. Keep in mind this woman would have to be several months pregnant at this time. None of this makes sense. Why do these Repub officials believe this crap?

  98. 98.

    Hob

    @Jon H: Lonewacko’s been around for quite a while. I’m pretty sure I used to see him on Usenet, more than 10 years ago – some time after the coining of “blog”, since he signed himself “The Lonewacko Blog” – peddling virtually identical crap about Clinton. Same condescending obliviousness, same indefatigable self-linking, just depressingly unchangingly insane.

  99. 99.

    Martin

    Why do these Repub officials believe this crap?

    They’ll choose to believe anything that serves to discredit the black guy in the White House. They don’t honestly believe a word of it, but that’s their thinking.

  100. 100.

    ricky

    You people are so full of moonpies you are a threat to the National Sewer System.

    Obama’s mother aborted him in Kenya. Doncha watch C-Spanned?

    Does this make me a partial birther or a bipartisamarian?

  101. 101.

    Montysano

    From lonewacko:

    For Hawaiian officials to “repeatedly insist[]” that Obama was born there, they’d have to break that law. The fact is that they haven’t broken that law, because they haven’t “repeatedly insisted” that Obama was born there. Instead, they’ve simply stated that Obama has a valid certificate on file.

    Don’t you see what’s going on here? Those treacherous Hawaiians! Wake up, people!1@

  102. 102.

    ricky

    “This is a third world country where the roads are still rough. A road trip from Nairobi to Mombasa is a rough whole day trip. Keep in mind this woman would have to be several months pregnant at this time. None of this makes sense. Why do these Repub officials believe this crap?”

    The miracle of Trig.

  103. 103.

    jl

    @ricky: Omigod omigod omigod!!! Obama was aborted!!!!!

    We are being ruled by a soulless, zombie, aborted President!!!!! Sheeeeples, wake uuuuup!!!

  105. 105.

    Kirk Spencer

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate.”

    No, they haven’t. Oh, they SAY it was original, but it wasn’t. Go look – one of the pictures is of the 2007 stamp that says it’s a certified copy.

  106. 106.

    Brachiator

    @geg6:

    A secret copy in Chicago now??

    Yep. More of this to be found in the upcoming movie, National Treasure 3: The Search for the Birth Certificate, starring Nicholas Cage.

    Let the Birfers and GOP and Village scream at each other a while. Let it really and truly get out of hand in the media … Then, we have a message that can work.

    No good can come of this crap. The uber-cynical Republicans will allow this to fester along with the other “Obama is a Muslim, not a real American” pile of manure, hoping that they can get some kind of electoral edge out of it somewhere.

  107. 107.

    PurpleGirl

    Wilfred @ #49 — LOL, so much so that I had a coughing fit. Good thing I wasn’t eating when I read that.

  108. 108.

    OriGuy

    @BDeevDad: This is the best yet:

    But as Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle point out in their tome Fallen Angels, preventing the greenhouse effect would lead the Earth into a devastating ice age. In other words, Obama’s Cap and Trade Agenda will directly lead to Fimbulvetr. As no real American would sponsor legislation that would lead to the Twilight of the Gods, it was necessary for Loki to use his powers to make Obama appear to be an American citizen so that Obama’s election to the Presidency would be assured.

  109. 109.

    Original Lee

    BTW, I think I’ve finally figured out what all of the birther “long form” nonsense is about. According to a friend who is an amateur genealogist (so take it with as many grains of salt as you need), back in the day when home births were common, the doctor/nurse/midwife would fill out a form called a birth record, which would be submitted to the health department/department of vital statistics/other appropriate department. The birth record would have a lot of detail, depending on the state requirements – things like who was present, estimated gestational age, occupation of father, and so on. The Vital Statistics people would keep this birth record on file and use it to generate a certificate of live birth/birth certificate, which is what most of us are familiar with. But back in the olden days, depending on the doctor and the state requirements, the mother would sometimes be given a duplicate birth record to hold on to. Hence, the “long form”. So my theory is that when birthers of a certain age babble about the “long form” birth certificate, they are really talking about the birth record. I don’t think anybody gets to look at the birth record, but everything I know about birth records I got from my friend and have written down here. Hopefully somebody on this thread knows more and can enlighten me (and anybody else who cares to tag along).

  111. 111.

    jl

    @OriGuy: The Obamadamarung!! The Bidenstod!! We humanity-hating lefties will immolate ourselves on Politicakkorectnessrechnung!! Booooyahhh!

    PS: Lee @109: Interesting perspective. But many birfers are youngins, and I think they have no idea what they are talking about, or just need more straw. I mean, come on ‘vault copy’ of a birth certificate? I never heard of that. I had to get double super duper top secret clearances for a job once, I went and got me a passport so I could travel to the Godless Outer Lands. I never ever had any one ask me for a ‘vault copy’ of a birth certificate, and nothing like that came up in my super duper top secret clearance records neither.

  112. 112.

    oh really

    Has anyone ever asked the birthers how Obama managed to get a passport?

    I’m assuming Obama got his first passport long before he was a presidential candidate. Didn’t the State Department require proof of citizenship? Or do Kenyan nationals automatically qualify for US passports?

    The Wingers have spent a lot of time on some incredibly stupid stuff in the last couple of decades, but this may be the dumbest thing ever.

  114. 114.

    wilfred

    @oh really:

    Or do Kenyan nationals automatically qualify for US passports?

    Only when the Kenyan in question is the Mahdi, because that’s what this whole thing is about, baby. They say the passport includes the imprimatur of the Grand Mufti of Mecca acknowledging Obama’s direct lineal descent from the Black Stone.

    Let’s check it out.

  115. 115.

    media browski

    Oh really,

    They have a whole fascinating theory that obama has been using an indonesian or perhaps kenyan passport. To support this they claim that Americans were not allowed to travel to Pakistan (notice how this one incorporates all of his suspicious travel to foreign lands?) in 81. The big problem with this theory is that there was no such travel ban between the US and Pakistan in 81.

    As for those of you kvetching about the interest in this:

    1. It’s the silly season. This time last year it was wall to wall puma coverage (essentially the same people as birthers I think).

    2. This is another nail in the coffin for the GOP. They have been completely infiltrated and overrun by the very unwashed masses they have been cynically manipulating for years. It’s a comeuppance, and rich w/ irony.

    3. It’s hilarious.

  116. 116.

    Original Lee

    @jl: I think the vault copy they keep asking for may be the birth record. According to my friend, the birth records used to be kept in a vault, and only certain Vital Statistics people were allowed to go in there, when they had to look up the information to generate the birth certificate. So I really think the birthers are asking for the birth record. I know many of them are young, but I think some of this stuff is coming from older people somehow. You know, Grandma says, “Here’s the birth certificate the doctor gave my mama when I was born.” And they look at it, and by golly, it’s longer than that piece of paper we get from the government when we need one. And then they talk to somebody who is interested in genealogy (like maybe a Mormon, perhaps), and they find out about the birth records being kept in a vault, and now they’re all lathered up about the vault copy.

    I do think a lot of this hysteria is deliberately being fed by people who know better, but I also think there’s a fair helping of the usual idiots who don’t grok the explanation they got the first time and turn it into something that makes more sense for them. Unfortunately.

  117. 117.

    Bill Jones

    I used to ignore the birther stuff, until Tweety Mattews on Puffball delivered himself of a frenetic tirade against it and the extremists and psycho’s traitors who promulgate it. That made me think that there may be something in it. President Biden anyone?

  119. 119.

    Cyrus

    Re: long form birth records or whatever these neo-Birchers assholes are asking for, as far as I know, I don’t have one. I’ve applied for a passport (twice, actually; lost the first one, but I think it would have been expired by the time I needed it again anyway) and driver’s license, and I now work in a DHS office, and no one has ever asked for a “long form birth certificate” in my life. I’ve got by just fine with a sheet of paper with just basic stats on it – date, location, full name and I’ve called that my birth certificate for all these years. But then, I’m white, so it’s safe to assume that I’m American.

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