If you’d told me someone named Lou had used the phrase “tea-bagging queen”, I would have guessed it was Lou Reed, circa 1970. Turns out I was wrong:
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?
I was promised a recession.
Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.
Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.
In my day, never was longer.
“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”
Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.
“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”
He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.
Let me file that under fuck it.
Joe Biden can go out like FDR, not by dying in office, but by crushing the fascists.
Technically true, but collectively nonsense
How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?
Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.
This fight is for everything.
We’re not going back!
Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.
Everything is totally normal and fine!!!
Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.
Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?
Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.
Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?
Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.
You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.
Kryptik
Poor Lou. It must be hard being such a stalwart defender of our southern border when he has such thin skin. I’d hate to see the sunburn scars he’s accumulated.
General Winfield Stuck
Miss Orly — Dentist/Real Estate Agent/Birther Conssiracy Nut.
Not a combo you see everyday. Except maybe The Grifter Circuit.
IndieTarheel
What a tool. And a dull one at that.
calipygian
I don’t think “tea-bagging queen” means what Lou Dobbs thinks it means if he’s calling HER a “tea-bagging queen”.
TR
So Lou Dobbs isn’t a birther. He’s just demanding that Obama release his birth certificate. OK, then.
This is like watching the meltdown of Kent Brockman.
jurassicpork
Where does a Republican bag of stale, second-hand wind like Dobbs get off calling a liberal like Maddow a “teabagging queen”? And Maddow’s right when she says that CNN’s not he;ping matters any by fanning the flames of this nonstarter of an issue.
But she could’ve also mentioned Jim Inhofe, who told Politico recently that he doesn’t “discourage” the birthers’ claims. How irresponsible is that, coming from a senior US senator?
Just to get offtopic for a minute, I’ve run into a bit of trouble lately. Actually, I’m in a lot of trouble and on the eve of my fiancee’s arrival. Could someone please help me out? Any small amount would make a difference. TIA.
Cat Lady
Loud Obbs. Flailing FAIL.
Tongue of Groucho Marx
“What a tool. And a dull one at that.”
Agreed. He’s certainly not a power tool, and that will turn most of the 35-49 male and 49-65 male demographics off. Therefore, his only appeal is to the 65+ male demographic. (I leave the discussion of the female demographic up to those that are better schooled in such issues.)
The Grand Panjandrum
This race baiting fucker still has a show … he and Scarborough as two of the most disingenuous bastards on TV right now. Wait a minute? Is that David Gregory on line 2? Jesus! So many ratfucking dickless half-wits to deal with, and so little time. Back to you DougJ.
geg6
Umm…Lou is aware that she’s a lesbian, right? Or alternatively, Lou is aware that tea bagging isn’t saying those words and laughing a lot, right?
The Grand Panjandrum
OT: I think Matt Taibbi wins the internets today for this line:
That about sums up my feelings about our government for the past … well since I’ve been alive.
General Winfield Stuck
Unfortunately for wingnuts, this caper only demonstrates Obama’s pure magnifico genius. He knew he was going to run for Presnit and at the moment of conception instructed his mamma to falsely plant a notice of his birth in the Honolulu newspaper in 1961. and he did it from the freakin’ womb fer gawd’s sake. In the blackwater ville of Mobooglboo, Kenya, where they’re weren’t a single goddamn telephone.
Zifnab
@calipygian: No, that’s the new thing now. Or, at least it was, for a little while.
The Tea Baggers decided to pull the, “I know you are but what am I” trick and decided anyone that talked about tea bagging was himself a tea bagger of the balls in your mouth variety.
I’m not sure how the logic works, but the wingnut fringe of the blog’o’sphere was all a-twitter about liberals being into gay sex because they knew what tea bagging was. Or something. I don’t know.
Fencedude
@Zifnab:
Shocking, Rachel Maddow knows about gay sex! Imagine that.
dmsilev
@TR:
And I, for one, welcome our new Obamalamist overlords.
-dms
SpotWeld
Irony is no longer just dead.. it’s been reanimated and blown apart by shotguns.
MikeJ
The same logic that called Obama the Manchurian candidate and the guy who had been tortured in a southeast Asian prison a regular guy.
beltane
A hustle here and a hustle there, New York City is the place where…
Help, we’re being attacked by crazy people who have been living under a rock for the past forty years. Can we at least get some cool crazy people, like ones who would never utter the phrase “tea-bagging queen” with a straight face?
lamh31
I think Lou was trying to reference Rachel & Ana Marie Cox’s complete and utter takedown & mockery of the Tea-Bagger movement. It was HELLA funny.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/orlando/2009/04/rachel-maddow-and-ana-marie-co.php
Litlebritdifrnt
THIS! THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.
Watch this vid.
http://www.vimeo.com/753559
The Moar You Know
I’m enjoying watching Lou come unglued. It’s been a long time in coming but I think it’s going to be fairly rapid and a lot of fun to watch.
arguingwithsignposts
“isn’t that cute?” F**k lou dobbs. Seriously, he needs to be canned. I cannot believe that major networks who make millions of dollars put up with this shite. of course, they put up with Glenn Beck for quite a while too, so I don’t know that I should expect any better.
I have kids. three of them. i honestly fear for their futures with nutjobs like this running around spouting their bullshite (and that includes all his anti-immigrant crap). What the F**K is wrong with our country?
kay
@General Winfield Stuck:
From your link: “and I remember Dr. West saying: ‘Barack Hussein Obama. Now that’s a musical name”
Were people just nicer in 1961? Maybe everyone’s nice in Hawaii?
DougJ
What the F**K is wrong with our country?
Something’s gone very wrong with airwaves. I don’t know how it happened.
Anne Laurie
I’m not saying Lou Dobbs is an idiot, I’m just asking why he won’t release the results of his latest IQ test. Okay, and maybe a long-form certificate from his physician indicating that he’s not suffering from Alzheimers. Concerned citizens have the right to know, Lou!
gex
i can haz style sheetz now? kthxbye
General Winfield Stuck
@DougJ:
It happened when Fox News was born and all the mouthbreathing wingnuts glued they’re beady little eyeballs only to them, which shot up FN’S rating and made all the other airwave pundits lose their fucking minds trying to keep up/
arguingwithsignposts
I should post an update. I’ve been doing better, but today I fell into something of a funk, and it’s showing in these comments. i honestly hate these f**ks who think we don’t need health care reform, and who pull out the birther shite, and who laud sarah f**kin’ word-salad palin. we’re talking about human lives here, and they just go “oh, well.” John Boehner rocks for special scorn. he deserves a melanoma for his bullshite. and Mitch McConnell too – he looks like a sesame street character.
I am the vengeance of the lord tonite. goddammit, these people are so totally full of it.
parksideq
@General Winfield Stuck: OT, but apparently O RLY Taintz is going to be on the Colbert Report sometime this week (unfortunately, in a taped segment, not as a guest). Don’t quote me on that, that’s just what I’ve been hearing on the intertubes.
Back on topic: Lou Dobbs saying that he believes Obama’s a citizen and therefore he needs to produce a birth certificate is akin to him saying “parksideq went to college: why won’t he release his transcript?”, while ignoring the framed diploma I have hanging on my wall. Fucking a.
MikeJ
Father Coughlin. Or probably before him. There’s absolutely nothing new with insane people on broadcast medial.
kay
It’s just unceasing. The lunatics are starting a new one. That Obama is sending government workers to kill old people.
Josh Huaco
@arguingwithsignposts:
Teh Souf dunn rizz a’ginn.
Josh Huaco
What happened to the edit function?
TR
Something’s gone very wrong with airwaves. I don’t know how it happened.
Death of the Fairness Doctrine. 1987.
It wasn’t perfect, but the knowledge that someone would be on right after you to beat down your bullshit with cold hard facts tended to keep people from going far off the deep end.
Montysano
Tonight’s Fresh Air was a discussion of health care reform between Prof. Krugman and Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation. Yeah, that’s right…. the Heritage Foundation. Guess what? Yes, they disagreed (politely) on details, but on the urgent need to do something, they were very close together. It was an excellent show.
So I have to wonder: is it possible that the insufferable turdknuckle Hannity has been ginning up conflict just to drive his ratings? Will that useless shitweasel Blitzer!® say anything for a paycheck? Has the Heritage Foundation gone soft on us?
General Winfield Stuck
@Josh Huaco:
Cookie Monster ate it.
Legalize
I couldn’t even make it through half of that fuck-wit’s whining.
Throwin Stones
Need a cookie.
Nellcote
@SpotWeld:
>Irony is no longer just dead.. it’s been reanimated and blown apart by shotguns.
shot from helicopters?
geg6
arguingwithsignposts: The only thing to do with anger is channel it, which is also helpful with depression. Get involved on the health care issue. The last year and a half, being involved has made my life much richer and I feel I’ve accomplished something in the battle against these fuckers. Not enough; it’s never enough. But contact MoveOn or your local party HQ or do the email/phone campaigns at FDL or GOS and find out a way to channel that righteous anger. You won’t regret it.
Litlebritdifrnt
What is wrong with you people? We (and I mean that collectively we as a community) need to slam the ever loving treacle out of our elected representatives to get health care done, the blue dog democrats need to be told that they are fucking toast if they do not support this, I am sick of this bipartisan shit, I am fucking sick of it. Watch this video, tell me we do not need a public option, people are willing to get up at 3am and line up to get basic fucking health care people! Basic fucking health care. Ya know what Mr. Congresscritter you are toast if you do not get this done. I busted my arse to get Obama in the Whitehouse, if he caves on this, if he caves on the public option, I am done. He has lost me in 2012, and he can get his damn self elected without my help.
http://www.vimeo.com/753559
The Other Steve
I love the Dobbs position. “I don’t believe Obama isn’t a citizen, but why doesn’t he release his birth certificate?”
Can John Cole please explain to me how this works, cause this is exactly how the Clinton attacks worked too.
jibeaux
So why is it all day long at work the site looks fine, there’s a post about the site that gets like 438 comments and I’m thinking, whoa, looks fine to me and there’s even free cookies, then I get home and hello, it’s formatting hell. I guess I have to wade through the weird formatting to the older post and find out what is the what, what?
jibeaux
Oh, man. Then I publish a comment and the refresh page looks normal. Wee-yerd.
Nellcote
@TR:
>Something’s gone very wrong with airwaves. I don’t know how it happened.
>Death of the Fairness Doctrine. 1987.
and Media consolidation.
demkat620
@General Winfield Stuck: Nope, it happened when the news became a for profit business.
steve s
Or is media fragmentation more to blame? When it was just the networks trying to get big mainstream audiences they couldn’t go all Birfer now, could they?
Karatist Preacher
Lou Dobbs:
Some say you beat your wife. How do you answer these critics?
Normal Person:
What the hell are you talking about?
Lou Dobbs:
Well some people are saying it! Why won’t you respond to these serious charges?
steve s
FWIW, I think the empowerment of smaller groups and the Rise of the Wingnut is a result of talk radio, cable news, and the internet. The wingers got the ability to drive messages that never would have gotten much time on the 6:30 news with Peter Jennings or Dan Rather. Couple that with a GOP machine which whipped up their outrage for years and years, and you got yourself a movement.
geg6
Media consolidation and the Fairness Doctrine are just more casualties to the second Holy Grail of the GOP (right after Tax Cuts): deregulation. If your goal is to create monopolies that vomit out crappy product, then deregulation is your strategy. Media is a perfect example but not the only one that is timely. Look at our credit and banking system. Or Wall Street. Or the airline industry. Or the privatization of our military. Or the student loan system. Pick something that is a disgrace and usually makes scads of money for the Masters of the Universe, and I guarantee you, it’s something that’s been deregulated in the last 20 or years, the glorious legacy of Saint Ronnie. That ratfucker. I hate that fucker so much, I want to dig up his smelly, rotting corpse so I can kick the shit out of it.
Patton
I firmly maintain that Lou Dobbs does not touch children inappropriately or eat the still-beating hearts of cute puppies. I just want him to prove that he doesn’t.
General Winfield Stuck
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Yes, saw the show on 60 minutes and it highlighted the need for basic health care for a lot of people.
Actually, things are happening pretty much as I expected, no GOP support for PO, or any real reform for that matter. And a group of dems are causing trouble as expected, some because they come from conservative districts, others cause they depend on HC industry money, or have concentrations of insurance companies in their districts or states.
A lot of CC’rs runnin their mouths about cost and bipartisanship is par for course at this stage. There are three bills in the Senate, and the last and most difficult is the S. Finance committee, one where Mr. Baucus was fully expected to go against the dem majority.
There is still a long way to go, and the final two steps will be where the screaming needs to be done, and that won’t happen till September. The first is Senate/House Conference Committee, where I fully expect either a PO will prevail, even if the Senate provides a bill without one. We will have the progressive votes there to get a decent conference report. It will pass the HOuse with some favoring to Blue Dogs on insurance reforms, specially Medicare pay rates to docs in rural areas, and other stuff.
Then, where the final battle will be drawn in the Senate, will be defeating efforts to strip out a PO, then when 60 votes for cloture cannot be attained, which it won’t be. The question of passage will be the Senate Dems moment of truth, or will they have the gumption to invoke the reconciliation process, Or pass a bill with just 51 votes.
If they don’t, then dems and especially Obama will be damaged greatly, politically. My little voice inside says they will take the plunge and do it, for no other reason than electoral viability or self preservation. They know that people like you will no longer support them in droves and it will be downhill for sometime to come.
steve s
Do you really want the Fairness Doctrine reinstated? Do you want the government insisting that Brick Head Bill be given front-page posting status here? I sure as shit don’t.
burnspbesq
@demkat620:
“it happened when the news became a for profit business.”
Umm, when was news ever not a for-profit business in this country?
Nellcote
@geg6:
>glorious legacy of Saint Ronnie. That ratfucker. I hate that fucker so much, I want to dig up his smelly, rotting corpse so I can kick the shit out of it.
I’ve felt that way since he famously said “If you’ve seen one redwood tree you’ve seen them all.”
geg6
burnspbesq: Only on teevee. For years, broadcast news was a loss leader for networks and considered public service in exchange for the airwaves. All other news media have always been for profit.
Andy K
@Karatist Preacher:
FIFY
General Winfield Stuck
@demkat620:
Well yea, but Fox News coming along poured jet fuel on that for profit business model by being the first major news network that was a Pravda wing of a major political party. Naturally, wingnuts being wingnuts, flocked there to hear the news they approved of, and the others have been jumping around in agony feeling the need to ape what Fox was doing one minute, and the next recoiling from doing partisan subjective news. The end result is CNN having the Glenn Beck show, and lately MSNBC saying fuck it and going with an all left primetime lineup. Keith, Rachel, Ed, and even Tweety much of the time. Makes for a lot of crazy ass shit that really isn’t objective news reporting.
Andy K
@burnspbesq:
Until the time that Roone Arledge, who became the head of ABC’s news division in ’77, decided that it was time for his division to turn a profit. Early ’80’s, I think. Until that point, the networks took a hit in their profits due to the news divisions that operated in the red.
geg6
Andy K: Again, wouldn’t have happened without deregulation. That there’s your handy dandy, all purpose villian. Fucks up everything it touches. Yes, too much is bad, but not nearly as bad as none at all. That’s how we get from 1980 to the USofA in 2009.
Jon H
Dobbs lost his shit when he failed in his attempt to become a web gazillionaire.
Now he’s all butthurt and “If I can’t have an IPO, then fuck it, fuck principles, I’m gonna sell my ass and make some money.”
jwb
@TR
Actually, I’m guessing a straight demographic explanation would go a long way (not sure how to find data on this). Fox came on and staked out the wingnut demographic as their base. But their tax cut crusade also appealed to an upper income demographic that watches lots of political programming. CNN and the networks began chasing that demographic—because, like, what were the rest of us going to do as they moved right to shave a demographic point or two off of Fox? But, then, the internet grew up and the progressives began to abandon the traditional big media sources. (Who watches network or cable news programming any more except as YouTube clips to mock?) The result: the television audience has become ever smaller, but also more conservative, so the shows play to that—really at this point they have to play to that, since that is their audience.
General Winfield Stuck
@Jon H:
I can visualize Dobb’s pairing up with the Wasilla Wingnut for some kind of ornery hour of crazy.
Like Howard Bealle meets Lady Godiva riding naked on a Moose to protest the Obama Blue Meany Tax Movement .
Jon H
@jwb: “The result: the television audience has become ever smaller, but also more conservative, so the shows play to that—really at this point they have to play to that, since that is their audience.”
Note also that Dobbs, like his former network-mate Glenn Beck, has a talk-radio show. Just like Hannity and O’Reilly, etc.
I think that’s a big part of it – trying to attract the mouthbreathing hordes of wingnut talk radio listeners.
Andy K
@geg6:
I don’t think the news was regulated. It was just something that the networks- well NBC and CBS, anyway, ABC going to the airwaves a decade late- just decided was the right thing to do.
Hell, there are two ABC stations that overlap coverage in West Michigan (one out of Battle Creek and one out of Grand Rapids), and when I was a kid in the ’70’s, the Battle Creek station didn’t air any news programming.
Litlebritdifrnt
@General Winfield Stuck:
Absolutely, he campaigned on this, it was his signature issue, if he does not get it done then he can forget using my office as campaign HQ for 2012, damn him. (I initially typed something else)
Turgidson
To study mid-bar, or not to study? Blarghblargh.
and Dobbs is a colossal douchebag, always has been, but has descended further and further into utter lunacy in the last 3 years or so in particular. To think, some nutjobs (ie Dobbs himself) floated his name as a possible Indie presidential candidate. HAA HAA.
…Just so I’m on topic here.
jwb
@Jon H
And you have to admit that they are very good at keeping their audience riled up, listening, and (I don’t doubt) buying the things they advertise (I understand Limbaugh is particular good at getting his audience to buy not just his political lines but also his sponsors’ products). Actually, if you look at the numbers, they don’t need an overly large audience so long as it is a loyal audience.
geg6
Andy K: What networks could air, how much time each viewpoint got, how much public service was required for licensing, how many stations a network could own and limits on how many within a market…all of that was regulated. Slack was given for those on the weaker frequencies and tiny markets but major stations had many hurdles to run. That all ended in the Reagan era.
SIA aka ScreamingInAtlanta
@The Moar You Know: Yeah but it’s like cockroaches. Get rid of one, and a hundred take it’s place.
Andy K
I think someone touched on it, but I think that as far as tv news goes, it’s been effected by cable. Not the presence of 24 hour cable news, but ALL of the alternate programming that just wasn’t available until the ’70’s. Instead of having the limited choice between three network news programs, Zoom! and syndicated sitcoms in that hour, now there’s ESPN, Law & Order on TNT, Saved By The Bell. whatever movies are on…
Comrade Jake
@Litlebritdifrnt:
But why would you hold Obama responsible? Sure, he campaigned on this, but you really think the blame for this likely shitpile of a bill is going to rest on his shoulders?
If you’re going to fault someone, fault the Blue Dogs and the people who are owned by the insurance industry. They’re the fucking crooks, not Obama. That Obama does not actually walk on water shouldn’t be a shock to us.
Andy K
@geg6:
But that public service quota was met, far too often, in the wee small hours of a Sunday morning. And that was a regulation for the stations, not the networks.
Comrade Jake
The real issue here is not people like Dobbs. Who watches Dobbs for news? Nobody with half a brain. Nobody with a job and kids.
The problem, IMO, is the morning shows on the major networks, where you will routinely see stupid-lite on display. That’s where a lot of people find out about what’s going on, in that 10-25 minutes in the morning before they rush out the door to work or to take the kids to school. And the stupid is strong on those morning shows, my friends.
SIA aka ScreamingInAtlanta
@arguingwithsignposts: I had to step away from the computer for a bit the last day or so – the bitter rage was spilling over. Once I got away from the PC, things felt more in balance. But I know the feeling you’re describing. Also, as geg6 says, activisim does help channel the fury. I had never worked on a campaign before but I got so angry at the lies and the media (same thing) during the primaries I volunteered for the O campaign and it felt great.
General Winfield Stuck
@Litlebritdifrnt:
It won’t really be all his fault, or even mostly his fault. But I understand how you feel, cause this is my #1 issue as well. And I will be greatly disappointed, maybe to the point of dropping politics for a time, if I’m not already thoroughly addicted.
I was just trying to give you some comfort on how messy the process is. Some people read a lot of papers and blogs, I’ve been a cspan junkie for 10 years now, watching the sausage get made, and this time it’s some hi powered sausage and it stinks to hi heaven. But it’s not abnormal with this big an issue having setbacks and bleak outlooks at certain points. If they don’t get this done, the dem star will go very low in the political sky. and they know it.
Comrade Jake
@General Winfield Stuck:
Let’s assume for the moment (and I know it sucks) that Obama does not succeed in signing a bill with real health care reform. I think many people are assuming that’s basically it for the guy. He may only serve one term, or if he serves two he won’t be that strong politically.
I’m not convinced the CW is right on that score. I think it’s possible the GOP really has no idea just how much they’re in the shit.
Ben Richards
@jwb: This.
I belong to an athletic club in downtown Houston that caters to professionals. The TVs in the locker room in the morning are invariably tuned to Fox News and CNBC. There is a bank of TVs in the main exercise area. Nearly half are tuned to Fox News or CNBC regardless of the time of day. It is definitely more of the tax cut “I got mine crowd” than the true wingnuts who believe in the birther stuff, although there is some overlap based on some conversations (arguments) I have been party to or overheard in the past year.
It is funny to hear the same people in locker room (white naked older men usually), who on some level are objectively smart, yelling “socialist” back in January and then “fascist” a few months later about the same politician…
Anne Laurie
I’m hoping that every recalcitrant Congresscritter gets slammed when they go “home” in August. Okay, I know the biggest tools only visit their nominal districts for photo-ops during campaign season, but we need to grassroot the heck out of all the home-town interns and assistant press secretaries. Stuff like booths at all the county / state fairs, Labor Day parades, etc., during the “slow news season” when local media are pining for something to show on the evening news.
Ben Richards
@Comrade Jake: Agreed and they give people validation by pandering to them… It is easy to do that without content or fact-checking.
Scott H
The long decline of Lou Dobbs is really too sad for comment — but I need the cookie.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
Oh, come on. We’ve been playing the “he said ‘tea-bagging’ tee-hee!” game with the right for at least six months now.
Hardly a reason to get outraged, a fright-winger using the term “tea-bagger.”
IndieTarheel
@General Winfield Stuck:
THAT’s one hell of a visual right there…
kay
@Comrade Jake:
Obama’s going to have to make a decision, though. The Senate finance bill is truly a work of art, in that is shifts costs (incredibly) from better-off people with health insurance to the uninsured middle class.
Poor people get Medicaid. Old people get Medicare. The group who don’t have health insurance are mostly lower middle class, and that’s where the Senate finance bill and their lobbyists masters see fresh sheep for slaughter. 45 million new customers, with no real competition, and a mandated sale. They may as well knock lower middle class over the head and steal their wallets.
If he doesn’t stand up, and this gets to be The Bill, it’s his.
jenniebee
Anybody else catch Maddow tonight, the clip from Obama’s presser where he answers a question from a caller who asked if it’s true that the health care reform bill has a provision to send a government employee to every elderly person in America to ask them (the elderly) how they want to die?
I don’t know if this visibility of wingnuttia is something we should be glad of in a sunlight-as-antiseptic way, or something that we should fear for its movement of the Overton Window.
General Winfield Stuck
@IndieTarheel:
Sometimes I flash back to my Psychedelic days, wal la Billy Pilgrim.
williamc
@Annie Laurie
Hells yeah, lady! As soon as my Congressman (the actually Honorable John Lewis) gets back here to Atlanta at recess, I’m calling him twice a day, and on his first weekend back, I’m finding out his event schedule, tracking him down, and pestering him to get the recess ended earlier so they can get back to work and fix health care. This has to happen now. If we can’t do it with all the bad stuff going on right now and everyone knowing that healthcare needs to be done now or else it will bankrupt us, well…that’s just irredeemable. I don’t think that we as country can survive Obama failing at this. If we can’t cripple one of the monsters that we know is slowly eating us alive (hello, climate change!, potable water!), how are our sick, fat, uneducated, uncultured, iOffspring going to ever be able to solve any of it? More than half the country knows that O has huge problems to try to convince us to solve and enemies on all sides (including, lots of times, we the people that consider ourselves his supporters attacking him and rightly so); the other sizable minority of the people that want the President to fail are insane.
There is no way to be nice about it. These people believe really far out wacky things not based in any way on observable behavior, reason, or logic. They held unchallenged sway over all the levels of power in a 9/11-wounded Superpower for 4 long years, torturing people, listening to all of our phone calls, snatching innocent people off of streets around the world, indefinitely detaining American citizens, exposing the sham of financial capitalism, and personally making me one mean bitch to everyone I knew or ever met the past 14 years that voted for these nitwits. You know why your streets are dirty and crime-filled and your government offices are full of forms and take hours to navigate? BECAUSE WHEN YOU CUT TAXES ALL THE TIME THERE’S NO MONEY TO PAY FOR GARBAGEMEN OR POLICEMEN OR OFFICE DRONES WORKING IN GOVERNMENT OFFICES!
Annie Laurie is right, bother the hell out of your Congressfolks. If Dems don’t get this done, they go down, and I really don’t know how I (or the world!) could survive a Speaker Bohner or Majority Leader Swedish Chef (R-Kentucky), President Romney or Palin or Gingrich or The-next-right-wing-nutbag.
We have to get this done. Now that the Repubs have been unmasked as lunatics, we can’t let them run the asylum again.
General Winfield Stuck
@Comrade Jake:
The House is going to be the stalwart in this game, once enough Blue Dogs have been tamed, and on a final vote they will be. It will be the House that insists any CR has to have a PO and real reform. If it gets stripped out in the Senate, then it’s dead, and Obama won’t have a bill to sign. As long as he goes to the wall to prevent this from happening, the damage won’t be lasting, and he can still work on the Senate to get it right, which may take awhile.
People give N/ Pelosi a lot of shit from the left, but she is the toughest of them all when committed, and she is with this, and she has not wavered toward getting a good bill out of the House, and won’t with a conference report. If the Senate doesn’t get it done, they will take the blame.. Deservedly so.
Nancy Irving
OT but here is an even better clip, of Bill O’Reilly saying something so stupid (even for him) that my jaw just dropped:
http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=3060320&ref=fpblg
jenniebee
Maddow does her version of “I track down clips of these nuts so you don’t have to” – health care reform = euthanasia version
LD50
He’s a lot less lovable than Kent Brockman.
Comrade Jake
Holy Christ Colbert has Orly Taitz on!
mai naem
General Winfield Stuck – I hope you’re wrong but I think you’re being awfully optimistic. Tweety had on John Kerry talking about how “there has to be a compromise.” The context was that there would be no public option. This is John Kerry who could be sitting there holding out for single payer and still would have no problem getting reelected even if he had an affair a la Mark Sanford. I think the Dems think they can fool the public while not most of the time, at least until 2012 where they think Obama and the Congressional Dems will hang on based on Senatorial electoral cycles and sheer numbers in the House. I think a good bunch of the Dems have no clue about the anger out here. I have two straight ticket Dem friends who will vote Republican if there is no real public option in this bill. I’ll do the same.
Fulcanelli
If Obama gets a poison pill of a Health Care Reform bill I hope he’s smart enough to tell Congress to wipe their asses with it on the evening news.
Signing a bill that will disappoint the public AND give the GOP something to tar and feather him with at this point is a really bad idea after all the the back pedaling he’s done on lobbyists in his administration and government transparency, the Budget, Wall Street bailouts, and on and on. He’d be better off taking it on the chin, shelving it and sending all the Blue Dog Senators hunting with Dick Cheney.
I never expected miracles from Obama in just 6 months, hell, I’d be happy if he could just slow the rate of decay after his first term. But he better toughen up and start drinking somebody’s fucking milkshake or this will be his one and only term at this rate.
valdivia
just a week ago weren’t we all laughing at the Republicans claiming Obama was just like Carter, a one termer, etc? Now I see a lot of comenters here indulging in the same. Come on guys–work your congress people in August to make sure the bill that passes is good. oh and read ezra klein on why getting a bill is actually better than getting no bill at all.
burnspbesq
@mai naem:
“I have two straight ticket Dem friends who will vote Republican if there is no real public option in this bill. I’ll do the same.”
I call. You won’t, and neither will your friends. No one who truly cares about this country could ever do that. You’re not that stupid or that evil.
General Winfield Stuck
@mai naem:
LOL. Shouldn’t that be I hope you’re right but,…../ The reason I’m optimistic on this is because of the political stakes for democrats if they fail. There are only about 6 or 8 senate dems who are against a PO, but right now they are the loudest. The others are keeping their powder dry for now, but they have a majority vote, though not a filibuster proof one. And will have to decide on taking the RP route.
And in the HOuse, most of the Blue Dog resistance isn’t about a PO, it’s details about taking care of their rural constituencies that can be worked out, and about paying for the bill, which is the most potent ammunition opponents have right now. Obama could, and I think should, break his promise about not taxing middle class persons to pay for it, and declare he’s letting the bush tax cuts sunset, all of them. It would blow the skeptics out of the water and get the revenue for deficit neutrality. It won’t hurt him with his base that much and would easily (IMO) be sold as everyone antying up for something this big. And the people who would be outraged aren’t going to support anything he does anyhow.
He may have needed to make that pledge to get elected, (though I don’t think so) but reality bites sometimes. And this is one of those times.
Gregory
@TR:
My apologies if someone’s already made this point, but Dobbs can insist he admits Obama is a citizen without contradicting the birthers — their beef is they allege Obama isn’t a natural born citizen.
Dobbs wants to have it both ways — and he accuses Maddow of intellectual dishonesty? Yeesh.
FarWest
For better or worse, Obama owns health care reform. He chose to make it his signature issue and he has laid most of the groundwork for creating and passing legislation.
Millions of people’s futures are on the line; if Obama is not willing to put his future on the line — in the form of fighting much more strenuously for meaningful reform than he has so far — he should be held responsible and accountable for a lousy final bill (assuming he doesn’t veto it).
He has repeatedly weakened his own position by making unnecessary concessions. By taking single payer off the table during the campaign, instead of saying we should look seriously at all the possible reform options, he made the public option the far left proposal from which compromise would begin. That’s a terrible way to try to get a strong public option, but no one forced Obama to do that. I believe he did it to try to appear moderate, without understanding or accepting the consequences of voluntarily collapsing the discussion spectrum. The only real line in the sand he’s drawn has been to say the bill can’t increase the deficit. That, too, plays into the hands of conservatives. When conservative Democrats get the idea that they can pass a bill without a strong public option, they’re going to try to pass exactly that kind of bill. Obama has never said he would veto a bill without a public option, which is nothing less than an open invitation for the allies of the insurance companies to produce a bill without a public option. Further, Obama has said he’d rather get a bipartisan bill with 85% of what he wants, than a bill that delivers 100% with a party line vote. That is pure insanity, especially since the 15% that is most likely to go will include the public option and adequate subsidies for the poor to buy insurance — not surprisingly, that is exactly the bill Baucus and friends are said to be crafting.
I’m a little mystified by the theory that the time to shout is after the damage has already been done, i.e., the (bad) bills have already been assembled and all that’s left is reconciliation.
I continue to hope that Obama will draw a line in the sand and define mandatory components of adequate reform — and that has to include the public option and generous subsidies for the poor. Otherwise, like most “reform” in this country, this reform will favor corporations and those who already have, while excluding those who are most vulnerable. If a Democratic president and Congress can’t represent those people, I have a difficult time justifying support for Democrats. After all, we already have the Republicans to represent the Haves and the corporations.
Several weeks ago, Jim McDermott described how we should be going about health care reform. First, we need to define what kind of coverage we want to provide and to whom. If we are serious about universal coverage then the reform legislation is built around that. Then, having determined what the program should look like, we go about figuring out how to pay for it. There is plenty of money available to create and sustain a single payer universal health care system, but we have to decide we’re willing to pay for it. Doing so will include cost savings from reform as well as the possibility of some tax increases to get the program started. In the long run, that system should save money and make all of the concerns about cost irrelevant. This approach applies to a public option as well as to single payer, although I firmly believe that the only reform that will really solve our cost and availability problems is a universal single payer system. I think the bills being considered now are not going to fix the mess we have and we’ll be right back here again a few years down the road – and in the meantime their will be lots of casualties.
With everyone covered by insurance, we’re likely to face a shortage of doctors and other health care professionals, so planning for that should begin immediately. Yet, I’ve heard virtually no discussion of this, perhaps because no one seriously believes the final bill is going to even approach universal coverage. Let’s be honest, everyone knows that some form of rationing is necessary, and the form Republicans favor is denial of care in the form of uninsured people.
In the present case, it seems that the single most important underlying premise of so-called reform is that we do no harm to the private insurance companies, who are, unremarkably, the root of our current problem. So, our basic tenet, adopted voluntarily by Obama, is that we can’t do anything to eliminate one of most significant problems of our current system. (I think it is THE most significant problem.) In fact, we have to build reform around perpetuating that problem, i.e., private, for-profit, insurance. Talk about tying your own hands.
In the end, if Obama and the Democrats don’t produce real, meaningful reform that insures everyone, then it seems perfectly fair and rational to me for at least some Democratic voters to decide to abandon the party (which has, after all, abandoned them on a life and death issue). Others will continue to support Obama as better than the Republicans, which he undoubtedly is. However, continuing to support politicians who at best represent your interests half-heartedly will never lead to any real improvement in the system. Renouncing support for current Democratic incumbents could lead to the return of Republican majorities and the inevitable damage those will entail. I think that is an issue for people’s individual value systems and consciences to decide. But, in the end, if it costs Obama the White House in 2012, I think that would be fair.
Ripley
Informative dialogue on healthcare; I appreciate the viewpoints.
I’m in the Ezra/Drum camp on this – a not-perfect bill that shifts the momentum is better than no bill at all – and with General Winfield Stuck, in that the process is long, messy, and easy to misunderstand. And yeah, of course it matters in terms of 2012: one way or another, things started mattering for 2012 in November of last year. Our systemic burden, it seems.
I do recall, though, that the broad rhetoric of Obama’s campaign was ‘hope’ and not ‘you’ll come in your pants every day I’m in office.’ I think we can probably be disappointed and hope at the same time.
DonnaInMichigan
I left the Republican party, 1 yr ago today. I don’t recognize the party that I once was proud to be part of, voted for, donated to, for 31 yrs of my life. When I die, I will die a proud Democrat.
Darkrose
@Ripley: I do recall, though, that the broad rhetoric of Obama’s campaign was ‘hope’ and not ‘you’ll come in your pants every day I’m in office.’
Wait…it wasn’t?
Damn! I knew I should have voted for Palin!
Santiago
test
Aaron
@FarWest:
I guess one thing is we really don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. Who has been threatened with primaries, what deals have been made. I want to see what this thing looks like at the end of the process before I get too crazy with jumping to conclusions.
On the other hand, I hope we can all agree that Max Baucus is an asshole
valdivia
@Ripley:
what i wanted to say and tried but you put it ten times better.
Hunter Gathers
Lou better watch it, or he’ll be put on Obama’s euthanasia list.
rs
@FarWest:
Unfortunately, while Obama understands that single-payer is the only cost efficient solution to insuring all Americans (reform of the system is a different problem entirely), he is ultimately beholden to the financial/insurance/real estate (FIRE) interests who paid to put him where he is, which also explains his non-solutions to the banking and foreclosure problems.
No one is as responsible for obfuscating this issue as Obama himself. I follow this shit and I still have trouble understanding what the hell the administration is trying to sell. So does the average citizen, making them easy prey for the ‘socialized medicine’ rhetoric of the insurance industry/RepubliKlans/Blue Dogs.
Single-payer is easily encapsulated as ‘Medicare for all’, which pretty much immunizes it from 90% of the bullshit attacks from the right. I can sit down with any non-ideologue and within 10 minutes have them appreciating the logic of extending Medicare to the entire population. A campaign orchestrated by the White House could have easily created the critical mass of the American public that would have steamrolled any obstacles.
That is, of course, had Obama himself not been put into ofice to dance to the tune being played by FIRE.
slippytoad
Wow. Who would have thunk that the guy who put permanent clown shoes on CNN would be Lou Dobbs?
As far as I’m concerned, the network has ZERO credibility from this point forward. They are Faux Neaux Part Deux.
joe from Lowell
Damn, talk about barking up the wrong tree…
General Winfield Stuck
Really Stupid?
harlana pepper
Not sure how Rachel Maddow is a tea-bagger. Somebody pls splain to me how that works.
harlana pepper
Also, everything looks fine on here now — It’s funny how Dobbs has to accuse adorable Rachel of sounding like a something out of a horror movie. It’s so Hannity-esque (“Al Gore is unhinged” type of shit). The real problem is that she is so darned appealing, brilliant and well-informed, unlike Dobbs, so he has to make her into a monster! He’s is really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, even birferness notwithstanding.
harlana pepper
Hmmm, I suppose if we circulate the original birth certificate to every single nutjob who can read, and they can hold it in their grubby little hands, that should satisfy them, right? Eh, okay, never mind.
jrosen
If I don’t get to the remote in time and get over to Law and Order at 7, seeing Lou Dobbs fatuous face puts my TV at risk. He should follow Glenn Beck into Fox’s Black Hole for Truth and never be seen in the real universe again.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck:
Not my first experience with an Obama sycophant pouting when it’s suggested the investment theory of politics (you won’t learn about that watching C-Span Theater) holds true for Saint Barack.
I’ll be sure to issue a spoiler alert whenever commenting on Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or professional wrestling to avoid adding to your discomfort.
gocart mozart
Oily Taint was on Colbert and compared Obama to both Hitler And Stalin. She also said something about him having a 180 year old Connecticut social security #. Very odd.
General Winfield Stuck
@rs:
Just tag your comment with “idiot” and I’ll know it’s from you.
pseudonymous in nc
It’s an interesting progression: he had a lot of cheerleaders when he was talking about outsourcing, and while his “all dirty Mexicans, all the time” format switch alienated some people, it attracted a whole lot more. Now he’s gone down the path to birtherism — and he clearly despises Obama.
While all that was happening, he was still a rich fuck who made his money out of Wall Street journalism and sucking up to CEOs, even while he was playing populist dress-up. Funnily enough, this profile from the AEI, focusing on the farming town in Idaho where LoudObbs grew up, gives a decent insight to what has driven him off the cliff. It also explains why he has his own little CNN fiefdom: his team doesn’t play with the other hosts and producers, and the senior executives have little control over the show’s content.
Original Lee
@gocart mozart: She’s deliberately misunderstanding that SSNs can be recycled. Plus, it used to be that the middle 2 digits showed when the holder would turn/had turned 18 years old, and I believe she’s calling it a birth year and subtracting wrong. Our public school system at work.
R-Jud
@gocart mozart: His Social Security number is 180 years old?
*brain explodes*
Corner Stone
@General Winfield Stuck: Not sure why you’re arguing with rs. Everything s/he said @ 107 is exactly right. The presser on July 22nd was absolutely devoid of any substance Obama’s supporters could get behind and sell. He didn’t have to lay out a detailed map, just draw in the boundaries of what he would or wouldn’t sign. I’ve heard so many flips and flops regarding if Obama would or wouldn’t sign a bill with no public option that I can’t tell you the answer. And I follow this issue and politics in general pretty closely.
It’s obvious Obama is partial to the financial industry specifically, and other moneyed interests more generally.
Don’t you recall how he whipped for votes on TARP before he was the President? Why can’t he now whip for votes to achieve the outcome he wants?
IMO, it’s because there is not an outcome he wants, but rather a bill he can sign that isn’t too obviously a give away to private insurers.
gocart mozart
His Social Security number is 180 years old?
I swear she said that at the end of the interview. Colbert quipped “Obama is a vampire from Connecticut?”
Does anyone have a LINK?
General Winfield Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Spare me your insightful political analysis CS. It is shot thru with PUMA horseshit, as is rs. That’s right, Obama is just throwing the health care bill which is his signature issue, in favor of industry favors he planned on taking all along while leading us down the primrose path. And because he wants businesses to succeed it is a sign of corruption. Go soak your head dude.
tea
It must be hard being such a stalwart defender of our southern border when he has such thin skin. I’d hate to see the sunburn scars he’s accumulated , It’s an interesting progression: he had a lot of cheerleaders when he was talking about outsourcing, and while his “all dirty Mexicans, all the time” format switch alienated some people, it attracted a whole lot more. Now he’s gone down the path to birtherism—and he clearly despises Obama.