Fine work, Senator Baucus.
[R]emember the big deal reached in the Senate by Max Baucus and those GOP Senators? Not true say those GOP Senators, Grassley (IA) and Enzi (WY).Even better (or worse), Enzi said there will be no deal unless he gets everything he wants in the final bill.
“I also need commitments from Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi, as well as the Administration, that the bipartisan agreements reached in the Finance Committee will survive in a final bill that goes to the President.”
If you live in Montana, call one of these regional offices to let them know how you feel about your Senator killing off health care in rural America. Baucus’s DC office is understandably socked. Also, Senate offices do not care much about email so don’t bother sending it.
(*) I use “chump seat” to describe the members of a political coalition whose perceived importance contrasts most sharply with how much influence they actually have. Republicans traditionally kept this seat warm for the religious right, but at least since Schiavo that isn’t true any more. Baucus takes the chump position here because his Republican ‘partners’ are just using his desperate need for a GOP fig leaf to humiliate him and kill the bill.
Zandar
Charlie Brown, meet Lucy and her football.
Darius
Yeah, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that Baucus got completely and thoroughly played here.
Punchy
I guess I’ll just never understand our gov’t. For a member of a minority party to be able to tell the majorities exactly what the bill should say, or else they’ll use some unknown secret power to kill the thing, is somewhat unfathomable.
ellaesther
I am enough of a student of history to know that the behavior of the 21st century GOP is not actually no more outrageous than that of politicians in the past. Lies, lies, and damn lies can be seen scattered liberally through the entire chronology of American politics — whole newspapers were founded in order to spread half-truths and blatant falsehoods about decent people, and indecent people have ever been happy to spread the shit yet further. In fact, if you were to do a thorough-going compare n’ contrast of today’s Republican behavior with that of politicians of yesteryear, I would even guess that things are BETTER than they used to be (better laws have a way of helping folks achieve their better angels, if nothing else).
And yet.
One wishes that today’s GOP would just fucking be people. Be a person, Sen. Baucus! Just fucking be a person.
Sentient Puddle
Nate Silver raised an important point this morning: why the hell is Baucus negotiating with Grassley and Enzi in the first place? If you have these guys, then you already have Nelson or Snowe, and if you have Nelson or Snowe, you already have cloture.
I mean Christ, if you’re still going to try for bipartisanship after the stimulus fiasco in the House, at least try for bipartisanship with people who at least might work with you in good faith…
asiangrrlMN
@Zandar: Aaaaargh!
@Punchy: Because the Democrats are a bunch of weak-assed wimps. I know it’s a big tent, but the Democrats might as well not have a majority at all. In fact, it would be less frustrating because then they would at least have a plausible excuse for not getting anything they fucking want. In the current scenario, it’s a fucking joke.
General Winfield Stuck
The sorry ass legacy of GWB lives on. Or, We’ll negotiate after I get everything I want. Fuck Enzi and his arrogant hypocritical amigos, to include Baucus and the other bought and paid for dems who feed us this bi-partisan horseshit. And that goes double for Harry Reid, who I’ve supported way past when I should have stopped.
Time to shut these motherfuckers out of the process, as they are not part of the solution, and are the problem.
Time to
Morbo
I’d like to buy Senator Baucus a watermelon with a small hole in it named “bipartisanship.” If he could just spend a few hours a day alone in his office with the watermelon it would be a better use of his time than doing the Senate’s business.
kth
It looks like the takeaway from this is that Baucus can’t deliver. If so, not sure why that’s bad news.
John Cole
Can someone explain to me why Republicans even want to be in the majority? They get everything they want in the minority, get to act the victim, and never have to be responsible for anything.
Keith
They get thrashed in 2 consecutive elections, yet still refuse to accept any compromise and insist on getting everything they want. Lovely…
flounder
I wish someone would send Enzi’s fiscally terrible “Ten Steps” corporate welfare health plan over to the CBO for scoring, just to establish who is full of shit on saving the government money and who is not.
Gus
I’m guessing his response would be something along the lines of “suck it. You don’t pay for my reelection, the health care and insurance industries do.”
General Winfield Stuck
@John Cole:
It’s a losers paradise they inhabit, with democrats paying the rent.
Zifnab
@Sentient Puddle: That’s the real joke here. Baucus is basically handing the GOP fund raising dollars here. By engaging with the hard right Republicans, he validates the GOP as a political party. Snowne is already inches from getting kicked out the back door of the GOP for being a RINO. Nelson is Blue Dog conservative, and will bicker to his dying breath over money, but won’t be quite as asinine as Grassley in demanding every little thing out of the bill.
At the end of the day, I question what the whole point of the Senate bill even is. You’re going to have three House bills coming out for various votes, and then a big reconciliation process. If the Senate bill strays too far from the House bills, and the Senate bill doesn’t have support of the Senators pushing health care, why do we think the Finance Bill won’t just get gutted out and tossed in favor of House provisions?
This all just seems like a time play. The Senate sits on its bill and runs out the clock, dragging the process to death while the wingnut media builds up steam against the proposal. But as the clock counts down, the Dems are going to get more hasty, and we’re going to see people more inclined to push for the quick fix through the reconciliation process.
I don’t know. I think Obama is going to get a bill out of Congress one way or another. I don’t see this tactic doing very much good, because the conservative provisions from the tightly controlled committee vote are going to get torn apart in the larger, more liberal, general Senate.
Comrade Jake
I appreciate the fact that Republicans have been given an opportunity to provide input to this bill. I’m sure there exist a handful who, even if they don’t vote for it, will have negotiated in good faith.
But the fact that any Republican is unlikely to vote for this bill in the end is a reality anyone and his brother could have seen coming. Given that, Baucus has provided them with way more input than they possibly deserve.
He has done so because he’s a chump, or because he’s not actually interested in reform himself. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest it’s a healthy mix of both.
John S.
Judging from their actions, I’m not entirely sure they DO.
After all, what incentive do they have? They get to embrace the crazies in their party, do whatever the fuck they want without any consequences, and go on FOX News (whose ratings are through the roof) and openly question the President’s patriotism and citizenship.
Life is good for them.
wilfred
Our political system is a relic that stopped functioning about 30 years ago. If the Senate is to continue as a representative body it has to be modified to reflect population, not the late 18th century.
What if, for example, everybody except for, say, 10 people, decided to leave Montana. How long would we continue to give it 2 Senate seats? The current situation is almost as stupid.
The situation is absurd. Senate seats should be apportioned the same way Representatives are. The current situation isn’t the will of the people, it’s the will of whoever was the last person to talk to Baucus, or, gasp!, grease his pockets.
Anonymously Anonymous
Don’t the Democrats realize that even if they give Republicans everything they want, they STILL won’t vote for the bill? Are they that dense (that’s a rhetorical question)?
They’d rather pass a shitty “bi-partisan” bill that gets 2 Republican votes than a good bill that gets none. And lets face it, those are the only two possible outcomes here. It’s just depressing we already know which choice we’re going to get.
cleek
from the immortal words of the Beastie Boys’ “Hey Fuck You”, to Mr Baucus:
Englischlehrer on vacation
What the fuck, man, this such a huge insult. Why is the finance committee writing a health bill? Why is Enzi allowed to demand everything he wants? When the dems were the minority, they were barely even allowed to find out where the bills were being hashed out. I am fucking pissed about this, here I am on vacation in california and I am shocked at how Baucus is suddenly the most important man in the country on health care…
Napoleon
Honest to God, if I had someone working at my office that was as gullible as Baucus I would fire him.
Baucus’ buddy Kent Conrad was on NPR this morning talking about how the Dems will never get the public option through the Senate. He was a complete dick. Even if it means health care reform ends up not passing this year Reid and Pelosi, strongly backed up by Obama, have to bring a strong bill, with a public option, to the floor and absolutely dare assholes like Baucus and Conrad to vote against it.
By the way there is a move afoot to put in place a mechanism to strip people like Baucus of their chairmanship.
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dems-warn-baucus-with-gavel-threat-2009-07-29.html
Comrade Jake
@John Cole:
Don’t you think there are a good number of Democrats who would also prefer their party to be the minority? They certainly don’t act like a party that just crushed the other side in an election.
The Moar You Know
HA HA HA. Time’s up, Baucus. Pick sides. You can do the right thing for America and leave the public option in, or you can not do that, and enjoy the horse’s head that Rahm leaves in your bed. Not to mention the millions of genuinely progressive Dems who will do the math, realize that having 60 isn’t doing them squat for good, and fund your challenger. Time is up, motherfucker. Choose and choose right or lose.
Betsy
Sometimes I’m amazed that I still have the capacity to be disappointed or enraged by our politicians.
But this does it. I just pounded my desk so hard the pencils jumped. This makes me SO FUCKING ANGRY. And makes me feel so fucking helpless. I hate it.
General Winfield Stuck
@Zifnab:
I think your analysis is accurate. It will fall to the House to pass a uncompromised bill and drop in Senate dems lap with a note that says, It’s on you dudes, you want to kill Healthcare reform, then have at it. America will be watching.
malta
ack! cookie
burnspbesq
@flounder:
Umm, yeah … But you’re assuming that the CBO can be trusted to not fudge the data. There is a recent post by Frank Pasquale over at Balkinization that makes a pretty compelling case that such trust is
misplaced.
mistermix
Ezra Klein reports about a possible (and good) solution to the problem: a secret vote by the Dem caucus on committee chairs every two years:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/give_congress_a_fish_and_it_wi.html
This would allow Dems to oust Blue Dogs like Baucus who are committee chairmen solely out of seniority. It would also scare the shit out of Baucus because he exists on the donations from lobbyists who come before his committee.
ellaesther
@ellaesther: ARGH!
I meant: “Be fucking people, Grassley and Enzi” — and I also meant to close my italics tag.
And I’ve even had my coffee today! I have no reasonable explanation.
flounder
@Napoleon, I was listening to Conrad on NPR and was half asleep, but through my grogginess, I swear there was one point when Conrad was whining about how much he hated any healthcare reform that would be an improvement, and Steve Inskeep just busted out in this mocking laughter and was like “why even [fucking] do it then”. Maybe I’ll have to listen to the segment again to see if I was dreaming or not.
Ash Can
If Baucus thought enough of himself to believe that he could save the day by negotiating a bipartisan agreement on health care, then hopefully he thinks enough of himself to feel humiliated and betrayed by these two-faced assholes, and will have learned an important lesson about trusting his Republican colleagues.
As for Enzi, I can’t imagine him wording his statement to the press more provocatively. Lawyers are trained to speak in this manner because being a trial lawyer is all about persuading a jury, but I have to wonder about him essentially issuing orders in this manner and under these circumstances. I can envision Reid being deferential to him, because Reid sees his job as keeping the members of his club (viz. the Senate) happy and protecting them from those mean people out there who want to keep them honest and make them do their jobs. However, I can’t envision Nancy Pelosi reacting the same way to a statement like this, and I can just imagine what Barack Obama and Rahm Emanuel would have to say about it.
Moreover, based on what Obama has been saying, over and over, I don’t envision him being bashful about vetoing a bill that he doesn’t think will accomplish what he wants. I do envision him signing something that he thinks is less than perfect, because he’s pragmatic. (I also don’t think it would be the end of the world, since I see something as far-reaching as health care reform as a marathon rather than a sprint.) But I don’t see him acquiescing to something he truly believes is a piece of shit — especially with Michael Fucking Enzi telling him he has to.
Napoleon
@flounder:
I always am only halfway listening to it at that time in the morning and I came away with this distinct impression from how Conrad was handling himself, the inflection of his voice, etc. that he feels he knows better (and my guess is this also extents to the entire group of 6) then everyone else on this subject and that he is going to simply shove what he thinks down Congress’, the President’s and the public’s troat and we are simply going to have to take it and even if we don’t realize it now someday we will thank them for it..
flounder
So Mike Enzi was a draft dodger during Vietnam. In 2006 he had the balls to tell the Casper Star Tribune that we lost in Vietnam because whatever poor schlep got sent in his place didn’t fight long enough.
http://is.gd/1UGky
When I lived in Wyoming, I used to call Enzi’s office every so often just to remind them that their boss not only dodged the draft, but blamed someone else for losing the war, and his children are total losers for not fighting his new war in Iraq. Now that he is acting all uppity maybe I’ll give them a call again.
El Cid
Wait — what is the evidence again that Baucus is opposed to this outcome?
Once again, grassroots Democrats and liberals are stunningly generous in attributing conservative Democrats’ actions to stupidity.
Why does it just never occur to people to conclude that politicians do what they do because they intentonally desire those outcomes?
My god, must we continue, decade after decade, to allege that any politician from the ostensibly desired political party only disappoints you due to un-intended consequences? If you and I can predict the likely outcome of a Baucus’ actions, why is it unwritten law that Baucus cannot?
Is it just so unimaginable that many Democrats support Republican or conservative or hawkish goals and policies because that is, in fact, what they want to do, even if the have to weakly attempt to hide that clear fact?
General Winfield Stuck
@Ash Can:
Further, I think Obama has been using the “Must control costs” requirement as code that the bill must have a public option, which is the only thing he has ever mentioned that would accomplish that. He’s been little squishy of the idea of co-ops, but has not endorsed that. I don’t understand the co-op thing that well, but it seems to me it would be wide open to being, er, co-opted by the health care industry with the kind of financial clout they have. A government run insurance company would be largely devoid from tampering from without, though the next GOP administration would certainly do it’s best to ruin it from within.
Sentient Puddle
@El Cid:
So…he’s not stupid, just a fucking tool? Not sure that’s much better, but OK.
Zifnab
@wilfred:
Well, by that logic one could argue that our political system has never worked, with some intermittent exceptions of a few decades scattered through our 240 year history.
After all, the Constitution has slavery written into it, while giving slave-owning states constituency counts for non-citizens. The First Amendment has been under assault since our 2nd President launched in with the Alien & Sedition Acts. We’ve seen corruption under virtually every administration from Washington to Obama. Universal suffrage wasn’t even really on the table until the 19th amendment, and even then it wasn’t REALLY on the table until the Voting Rights Act, and even then it STILL isn’t REALLY on the table if you look at the massive gerrymandering and vote rigging in the last half dozen elections.
I mean, if you want to play the “We’re all fucked now” card, you’ve got to concede that we’ve been well and truly fucked since the American Revolution, because things only get worse as you crawl back through the pages of history.
Assuming you want to hold up the 50s and 60s as some idealistic halcyon day of yor when Democracy Really Worked ™, you’re going to have to tell me how McCarythism and the Red Scare factor into your Real Democracy(tm) calculus.
As far as I can tell, we’ve elected a black man as President and completely flipped the balance of power in the legislative branch over the course of six years and in the face of the former Imperial Administration and ruthlessly amoral political opposition. From where I stand, we’re doing pret-ty fuc-king good thank you very much.
If a single body of the Legislative Branch isn’t functioning exactly as you’d envisioned it, and this is your sole complaint, I think the Failed Democracy we’ve been living in for the past 30 years has spoiled you fucking rotten. One committee, in one House, of one branch of government doesn’t go your way and you’re ready toss in the towel on the entire American Experiment? Fuck you buddy.
Kryptik
So another Dem prays at the altar of the sacred bipartisanship, and gets played for it. What a goddamn surprise.
Remember kids: Bipartisanship when Republicans are in control means Democrats have to cater to Republicans or else.
Bipartisanship when Democrats are in control means Democrats have to cater to Republicans or else.
Napoleon
@El Cid:
I don’t, I think he is trying to kill reform. Reid needs to pull the bill from his committee and simple send it to the floor and under no circumstances promise them anything as to changes in reconciliation (and none of the gang of 6 should be allowed to be in on the reconciliation).
Flanders
Getting a cookie. Will delete soon.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
So apparently the
BaucusWooden Rabbit plan for breaking into Castle Health Care (despite the ferociousGOPFrench taunting) didn’t work out quite as planned. Senator Baucus’ next brilliant plan will be to sneak off into the woods and build a giant Wooden Badger…Ash Can
@El Cid:
I think you have a perfectly good point, and I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if this were the case. I’m only guessing that Baucus isn’t on exactly the same page as these two twits because their statements to CNN seemed sufficiently sudden and contrary to cause Baucus some embarrassment. Even if they made these statements with Baucus’s full knowledge and consent, it still makes Baucus look as though he’s been hung out to dry. It’s possible that Baucus doesn’t care how he looks, if the insurance industry and/or big pharma are handing him enough of a payola. Based on how prima-donna-ish senators are in general, though, my guess (and I emphasize that it’s only a guess) is that he isn’t willingly making himself look like this much of a chump.
ericvsthem
@John Cole: when the GOP is in the majority, they can more easily enrich themselves and their friends, further wreaking the gov’t and proving their own argument that gov’t doesn’t work.
that’s why.
gbear
Just made lunchtime phone calls to Betty McCollum and Amy Klobuchar’s DC offices to tell them to kick blue-dog butt and not accept any bill that doesn’t include a functional public option. They’re already on board with it so it’s not a call that’s going to change anything, but they appreciate the calls in a bean-counting way. My call is another reason they can tell the blue-dogs to go stuff it.
I tried to call Franken’s office too but no one answered the call. I probably let it ring for two minutes. Last time I called his DC office, they told me that he doesn’t have a local phone number yet. I can appreciate the fact that his phone must ring off the hook just with calls from people who call to tell him how much they hate him, but c’mon Al, you need a MN office with a phone.
wilfred
@Zifnab:
Oh dear, rallying around the fucking flag, are we? You forgot to say: Homeland, love it or leave it.
I chose 30 years because that was more or less the last time a Senator from an obscure state with a small population did anything good for this country. Of course, minus 18 point bold-faced caps and a goddamned historical GPS system you have no idea what or who I was referring to.
The system has failed, repeatedly. Most recently, this body has given us Iraq, Afghanistan, Presidential power that exceeds anything we have ever know, and blank checks for the worst conduct I can remember as a country since Vietnam.
The living should not be bound by the will of the dead.
catclub
Zifnab @38
That’s tellin’ em.
As I stated in another thread when JCole decided we are fucked.
Untwist your knickers.
fimo
cookie time agn
Bobby Thomson
I see no evidence that Baucus was played and every reason to think he is just as corrupt as Grassley and Enzi and united with them on the same outcome: more profits for carriers.
mcc
But if you have Grassley and Enzi, do you have Schumer? The impression I got all along was that Baucus was heading toward a “compromise” that the Republicans on the panel could vote for and the Democrats would mostly vote against.
Bobby Thomson
Didn’t see that El Cid had already made the same point and did a better job of it. Kudos.
Sentient Puddle
I’m actually tempted to believe Baucus is in the pockets of the insurance lobby too, now that I think about it. I remember shortly after the election, when he took the initiative to spearhead health care reform while the rest of us were going “Huh? Of all people, Baucus?” I bet I know why now!
KC
@El Cid
I’ve come to the same conclusion. Baucus is as eager to kill healthcare reform as the GOP. “Bipartisanship” is his cover to do it.
Beeb
@Ash Can 38 — CNN reported that Grassley and Enzi made their statements right after a meeting of the Republican Caucus at which they reportedly were ordered to get back on the reservation. No compromises, none, zero, zilch. So yes, I suspect Baucus feels sandbagged if he was fool enough to think they were negotiating in good faith.
In related news, there is no truth to the rumors that Nancy Pelosi sent Enzi a telegram reading “Fuck you, strong letter to follow” while Harry Reid sent Baucus a cookie bouquet and a “Hang In There” stuffed toy to cheer him up.
mcc
So it still seems to me like the finance committee bill, awful as it is, would have been worth it so long as it had actually passed out of committee. This was always a pretty inhospitable panel, wasn’t it? So it might have been very hard to get out a bill that someone like me would have been happy with. Baucus really doesn’t seem to have even tried to put out a bill that someone like me could have been happy with, but so long as he could have passed something he still would have done a good thing, because once the bill passes out of Baucus’s committee the process can move forward again and we can concentrate on getting the four good committee bills to override the one bad committee bill.
But this assumes he can actually get something passed! And apparently he can’t even do that. Every other committee is going to be done this week, isn’t it? If Baucus’s poor negotiation skill (and/or his Republican complicity) manages to singlehandedly prevent us from going to the August recess with the committee work done on health care, that’s unforgivable.
Beeb
Oops. That should have been Ash Can 43. Memo to self: Remember the edit function is gone.
Joey Maloney
@Morbo:
s/watermelon/gigantic spiky motorized ass-dildo
KDP
A proposal I saw elsewhere for those of us who do not have a representative on the Finance Committee is to call the offices of the committee to provide our input as concerned citizens. That number is:
Committee On Finance
219 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510-6200
(202) 224-4515
wilfred
What? Why, you’re talking about the Greatest Deliberative Body in the History of the World. It was designed to function like that, lest the people elect a majority of Senators from one party to implement the wishes of a great majority of the population.
It’s one man against the Machine, it is. Thank heavens for Max Baucus.
Beeb
Baucus doesn’t need Republican votes to get something passed out of committee. He and Conrad are the ones insisting that it be bipartisan. This is on them.
CynDee
“If you live in Montana, call one of these regional offices to let them know how you feel about your Senator killing off health care in rural America.”
No matter WHERE you live, call them or e-mail the person’s site on house.gov or senate.gov. You don’t have to live in their state. Many days I call out creeps for what they are doing or saying and remind them that this action is unworthy of their office and many, many people are noticing, not just their constituents. Their salaries and nice health care don’t come from their state, but from the U.S Treasury. They owe it to every U.S. citizen to:
1. Keep the oath they swore to uphold the Constitution
2. Be proper stewards of their offices and represent U.S. citizens, not special interests
3. Give up their own health care until everybody has the same amount and quality of health care that they do.
4. Not waste time, money, or other common resources
Call them out for every bit of wrongdoing you see. Always be civil in your messages, so you don’t get shut out of their site. That might not work, because after my third or so message to Nancy Pelosi during the Bush years, I got shut out of her site despite my brief.
respectful opinions.
Like Michael Moore says, Psst, DO something. Put these great ideas you’re expressing here out in front of those guilty of the deeds.
Napoleon
@Sentient Puddle:
SP said :”I remember shortly after the election, when he took the initiative to spearhead health care reform while the rest of us were going “Huh? Of all people, Baucus?” I bet I know why now!”
For some reason this made me think of the scene from the movie Battle of the Bulge where the Germans get American English speakers behind the Allied lines in American uniforms where they then mis-direct American units.
aimai
Well, I’ve got a representative on the Finance Committee, as it turns out, Kerry–and I just called. They bleated at me plaintively and said he had so said something stern to baucus but that they “couldn’t stop anyone from holding meetings.” Somewhat incoherently, but I was in a rage and its what I really think, I said “Look, I’m a jew, and Kerry’s not, and I’m political, and he’s not but I think there was something else he could do than issue a god damned statement. And he could keep doing it until it worked.” What I was really thinking about was that Kerry is too much of a lazy, upper class twit to have enjoyed doing a little guerilla theater–which I would totally have done–and gone and positioned himself outside that little room where the six of them were meeting and held a stand up routine for the press dictating the statements each were presumably making to the others as they wasted all our time pretending to negotiate in good faith. And I’d have done the voices, too, and with obscene gestures. Baucus wants to destroy health care reform–he’s being paid to do that–but like the rest of the Senators he’s also arrogant and insulated from public contempt. He’s sensitive to that, if not to the requirements of humanity and good government. Humiliate him enough and he’ll do what he’s told. Treat him respectfully and he won’t.
aimai
The Raven
Convered this a few months ago:
Why is the Senate this way? This is a result of customs put in place to protect the practice of slavery in the pre-civil-war era. Due for reform, is the Senate.
Ed in NJ
I’m so tired of hearing how the Republicans are trying to kill health reform. That’s the last thing they want to do, because they know there really is a mandate to reform healthcare in this country, and they can’t be held responsible for nothing getting done.
The goal is to extend the process for as long as possible so they can continue screaming so cial ism and government takeover, and then vote against whatever bill comes out, even with all their input and concessions to them. Watering down the bill so much that nothing changes in terms of coverage and costs, but costs the taxpayers a fortune, is their ticket to regaining control of Congress and the White House.
Zifnab
@wilfred:
Blah blah blah, worst political system ever, blah blah blah, don’t mention for all the others. Gotcha.
I have no idea which small state Senator you are referring to that – 30 years ago – did something good for the country. Since 1979, I like to think Russ Feingold of Wisconsin has done any able job for his years in the Senate, and the late great Paul Wellstone of Minnesota was an anti-war bastion going back to the original Gulf War. Jon Tester, of Montana, has been a major backer of Green Energy, and – in fact – the Green Energy initiatives have seen a great deal of support across the liberal Senate floor.
John Kerry and Barbara Boxer have lead the charge on the green movement in the Senate, but there have been numerous small state Senators backing them up. If you consider global warming a serious threat to the country’s environmental and economic future, the modern US Senate seems like it would deserve a bit more of your esteem.
Again, I’m just not sure where you’re getting this nihilism from.
CynDee
P.S. to #61:
And also thank the people who have made an effort to help.
Richard Bottoms
Dude, fix your freaking site already.
arguingwithsignposts
@Betsy:
Amen.
wilfred
@Zifnab:
Frank Church (Dem-Id). I’m more concerned with the process that always ends up in the quid pro quo of Vietnam for the Great Society, or greenhouse gas controls in exchange for not investigating CIA abuses, or any one of the dozens of other reach arounds that constitute the function of the Senate that are dignified with the name of deliberative politics.
Nihilism? Come on, arguing legislative structural reform on Jeffersonian principles is hardly the same as being some species of Russian bomb thrower.
RedKitten
Completely and utterly OT, but we haven’t had an open thread in awhile, so I don’t care:
I am absolutely fracking dying from this heat. It’s 24 degrees, but with the humidity, it feels like 34 degrees (that’s 75 and 93 degrees for you folks.) And I am now officially tired of being pregnant. I sat on the floor awhile ago to put felt pads under my computer CPU, and it took me a good 15 minutes to muster up the effort to hoist myself back up again.
That is all. You may now return to your regularly scheduled political discussion.
aimai
Redkitten,
I feel for you. How far along are you? The end is just grueling. I busted the edges of my ribs coughing during my second pregnancy and every breath I took was agony, also couldn’t bend or lift anything without pain. If you can, and if it wouldn’t stress you out to get over there, try to find a nice, clean, spa type pool to float in. It takes the weight off and you will finally be able to relax a bit.
aimai
Cat Lady
@RedKitten:
Amen sister. My first was born at the end of August. By the end I was lying on my back on the bed with my legs and feet, wrapped in cold facecloths, on the wall. The coolest place was the kitchen floor, where I spent a good amount of time with a pillow under my hip. It was all so completely totally worth it.
RedKitten
@aimai: I’m due two weeks from yesterday, so I’m pretty far along.
The idea of a pool sounds absolutely heavenly. Unfortunately, the only pool nearby belongs to an exclusive, fancy-schmancy resort/gated community owned by Ron Joyce. They’ve got a great pool, a spa that offers pregnancy massage, and everything. But, if you’re not a guest at the resort, there’s a resort fee of $100 on top of your spa services fees. So as much as I’d love to partake, paying a total of $160 for a half-hour massage and a dip in the pool is a bit beyond my means. (Besides, even if it wasn’t beyond my means, my thrifty side really chafes at paying $100 just to be allowed onto the property.)
Terri
Redkitten
Thank whatever diety you choose, that you don’t live in Fla. The heat index here is around 100 last I checked, with 80% humidity. Not good for pregnant women. Or anybody.
John S.
I was thinking nihilism in the Big Lebowski sense of the term, as in, whereas effective government is concerned – like Uli Kunkel (aka “Karl Hungus”) – you believe in nothing.
I don’t think bombs or Russians had anything to do with it.
CynDee
@RedKitten:
Forgive me if you already know about this, but it is instantly cooling and calming to run cold water over your forearms, especially the underside where the large veins are.
It can be quite a relief both physically and emotionally. I also found that washing my face and neck several times a day a lot really helped.
My little guy was born at the end of a VERY long, hot summer. I’ll never forget that the last month seemed endless.
He’s 45 years old now and has always been a wonderful person. He introduced me to trigonometry, and became a pilot and took me up in a plane when he got his license at age 16. When he was a little kid and once in a (great) while on the outs with things, he’d say, “I guess I’m a lot of trouble.” And I’d reply from the heart, “Yes you are; but you’re WORTH it.”
Jim Wilson
I think it’s time to borrow the English term, “rotten borough,” to describe the undue influence of small-population states on the Senate. Here’s the Wikipedia definition:
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Demo Woman
@RedKitten: When I delivered my baby 30 years ago, I was fortunate to have a mid wife although I did deliver in a hospital. At the time we were living in CT and if you used a licensed mid wife, you had to deliver in a hospital. Sounds strange I know.
Just Some Fuckhead
@John Cole:
David “The Dean” Broder would like a private word with you.
(BTW, kudos to the fucker that edited his wiki entry to include the phrase He is the quintessential Beltway hack. Good stuff.)
Corner Stone
@Ash Can:
I’m just baffled as to why people keep saying things along these lines.
Obama will sign whatever POS bill makes it to his desk, period. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Doesn’t matter if it does or does not have a “robust” public option, or any public option at all for that matter. The parameters are irrelevant to him, as is obvious by all the varied floaters he and his admin officials have pushed out there, all of wildly varying specifics. He’ll sign the bill, it won’t be phased in or significantly implemented until 2013, and so he’ll use it as a shield to run again in 2012 since no one will actually know what the hell it’s supposed to change or do.
gex
@ericvsthem: Agreed. Everything John said about the benefits of the GOP being the minority is true, but he forgets one thing. Their greed and lust for power knows no bounds. When they were in charge they got their shiny Iraq war, escalating expenditures on missile defense, and they even to to hand pick their buddies to go to the Green Zone and receive those pallets of cash that no one seems to be able to account for.
Svensker
@RedKitten:
Relating totally. Mine was born in the middle of a very humid NJ August — the last few weeks I just felt like a giant swollen cow with a sweaty red face and huge ankles. Horrid. But it does end. And you get a kid out of it! Walla! (as the intertrons folks say, these days).
Ditto what CinDee said about the cool on the inside of your wrists. Also, get a bowl full of ice water, mix in some SeaBreeze (or whatever cooling, minty skin “toner” they have in Canada”), dip a small cloth or towel in, wring out a bit and put it on the back of your neck. Aaaaaah. Renew as wanted. Trick a nurse from Savannah, GA, taught me.
Kirk Spencer
I begin to think we’re not seeing what is really happening.
Baucus knows there’s a deadline. At a point that’s closing rapidly, new rules take over for getting a health care bill passed.
There is a Senate bill out and in the works. There is a House bill on the edge of being complete. There is nothing that says the Finance bill HAS to be The One.
Try this scenario. The Gang of Six make a completely Republican health care bill. At that point the Finance committee has to vote on it. There are 13 Democrats and 10 Republicans on that committee, and for it to pass it has to get 12 votes. For it to leave the committee, all 10 Republicans, Baucus, and one other Democrat have to agree it’s a good bill. Based on what I’m hearing, the other two Democrats on the subcommittee aren’t happy with what’s happening, and the other Democrats in Finance are REAL unhappy with the compromises. What are odds it dies, leaving two (well, three counting Wyden-Bennett) health care bills in the running?
Phoenix Woman
There’s absolutely no need to get any Republicans on board to pass health care reform that includes a public option. None.
So what if the Dems don’t get a filibuster-proof margin? Let the Republicans filibuster something three-quarters of Americans want. Please.
Anne Laurie
We need to initiate the Trillin Option: make those whores wear a patch on their jackets for every one of their corporate sponsors, the way NASCAR racers wear them on their jumpsuits. With the supercomputing power we’ve got available today, we should even be able to calibrate the size of the patch to the generosity of each sponsor. If Baucus is going to be out their as a mouthpiece for the insurance industry, I want his “branding” clearly visible to every low-information eyeball that sees him whining on the teevee about bipartisanship.
Betsy
@RedKitten and all the other ladies commenting on summer births:
Having never been pregnant, I can only offer my sympathy. And make a note to, at all costs, avoid conceiving in November or December.
Betsy
@RedKitten:
My theory is that this is nature’s way of making mothers actually look forward to the most painful (and, for most of history, most dangerous) thing they’ve ever done in their lives.
Napoleon
@Kirk Spencer:
There is always the argument that no matter what comes out of the Finance Committee it may end up having zero relevance to what ultimately gets past. That fact is the sole thing keeping me from going insane with what is going on in the Senate with this bill. Once the Finance Committee passes something, anything, it then needs to be reconciled with the other bills in the Senate. I think the important thing here is that the people doing to reconciling can not include Baucus, Conrad, Nelson, Bayh, etc. In any event once they come up with a bill and pass it it will almost certainly be different then the Houses, so it goes to another reconciliation mark up. Again they got to keep the wrong people out of the room when that happens.
My biggest fear is that committee simply does not pass something, and Reid, being the chickenshit that he is, does not simply run an end around that fact, or once it is passed out of committee he lets the people most likely to destroy a good bill back in the room.
aimai
Anne Laurie,
What a great idea. And you know, with photoshop, it would be easy to do to every picture we show online of a given senator on congressman. It would substantially diminish their ability to be taken seriously as statesmen to have them emblazoned with, in David Vitter’s case, a Depends logo.
aimai
Ye Cats
I like “Chump Seat”, maybe it could be a tag if there’s likely to be enough call for it.
RedKitten
True. I wish I could post a photo here of my feet — Fred Flintstone would be jealous of these puppies. They’re absolutely ludicrous.
Ah well, it’s pouring rain right now, so hopefully that’ll make the next few days a bit cooler. And I’m thanking whatever gods there are that when building the house, we had the foresight to put a ceiling fan in our bedroom. I just got a bunch of housework done, so I think the occasion now calls for a cool shower + ceiling fan + tall glass of lemonade combo.
General Winfield Stuck
@RedKitten:
While I have never had of summer birth, I have been uncomfortably hot. This is Dr. Stuck prescription. Go over to your kitchen sink and turn on just the cold water. Let the water run over your wrists, one then the other, for as long as you can stand it. It will cool down your core temp quickly, and little baby will also giggle with delight, cause momma is feeling better.. That is all.
lol
@61: Calling Senators and Representatives who do *not* represent your state/district accomplishes jackshit. Even worse, it makes it more difficult for *actual* constituents to get their opinion heard.
Whine all you want about how his actions affect everyone – he. does. not. care.
Hippies calling Baucus from the East Coast is only going to make him dig in his heels. Hippies calling their friends in Montana to get them to call Baucus, OTOH… that’s actually productive.
kay
“I am still cautiously optimistic that we will get something out of the committee before this work period ends,” Reid told reporters.
What to do with him. Is there any chance he’d go home early?
Xenos
@Phoenix Woman: So what if the Dems don’t get a filibuster-proof margin? Let the Republicans filibuster something three-quarters of Americans want. Please.
And if it fails, wait a few months, get the regular congressional work done, and then start the process over again. We only have to win once. Each iteration will further expend the insurance industry’s assets, further outrage the general public, further put the corruption of late-stage crony capitalism in the center of public discourse.
We need to do what the Clintons failed to do – never give up.
ronin122
O/T but Arizona is thinking of selling the Capitol buildings. No joke: here. And I thought shit was bad in Illinois
ericvsthem
@RedKitten: My wife is due with our first child 2 weeks from today. She’s delivering her baby at the birth center in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, with a midwife and a doula (and me, of course).
For any prospective parents out there, it is worth visiting a birth center just to see what other options are out there.
My wife (Monica) has had a very easy pregnancy. No serious complications, just some usual discomforts (kicks from the baby, difficulty finding comfortable sleeping positions). Her boss told her this week that she’s the best pregnant lady she’s ever seen. Yet another reason why I love her more every day.
Anyway, definitely spend some time in a pool, as recommended above. Huge relief for Monica. She also got a lot of relief at her prenatal yoga class. And, as advertised, sitting on those large exercise balls have taken a lot of pressure off her lower back.
Napoleon
For the women who are discussing your pregnancies, none of them sound as bad as my sister-in-laws a few years ago. Not only did she develop the cracked rib(s) someone mentions up-thread, but morning sickness never went away for her (it just slightly abated, something like 3 out of every 5 days instead of 3 out of every 4 the first few months – there was even an incident where at a restaurant with my brother she suddenly threw up on him across the table).
That would have been bad enough but while she was running to the bathroom to throw up once she broke some toes on the bathroom door jamb. So then she was basically immobilized and had to carry a bucket with her everywhere in case she became sick. I never saw her happier then the day she had the kid, and I think at least half of it was just feeling so much better at that point.
On the plus side their daughter sure is the cutest most radiant child.
RememberNovember
The sad thing is, most in those rural areas don’t have wifi access and laptops and get their news at the local diner with their eggs over easy chatting it up with the locals. So they won’t even know that budgetary shredding has disabled people to get RAM- style care.
Xenos
While July is a tough time to be very, very pregnant, August is perfect for bringing the newborn home. Little guys like to keep warm. And he/she will be old enough to crawl by the time spring comes around, and will be running and giggling under the sprinkler a year from now. So the timing should work well in the whole.
RedKitten
@Napoleon: Yikes! That sounds absolutely AWFUL! I hope your brother pampered her silly during that time.
Honestly, things haven’t been that bad. For the most part, I’ve had a super-easy pregnancy: just a bit of queasiness in the first trimester, the swollen feet, the gestational diabetes, and the current feeling like I’m sitting in an oven. But all of those have been more than manageable, and overall, I’ve really enjoyed being preggers.
But I still reserve the right to complain. ;)
Martin
I don’t think he’ll veto, but I do think he’ll tell Reid to do the deed as part of reconciliation so the Dems only need 50 votes. If the Dems are going to take a bullet here, they’ll take it over bullshit procedural tricks than over a veto that every Republican will remind the public of over the next 50 years.
The landscape strongly favors a good Democratic bill here, even if they wind up driving guys like Baucus out of the party. Dems still have a lot of other cards to play.
Ailuridae
@Zifnab:
I think when most people use small state in this context they mean it to include those states that only have an at-large representative. I still disagree with the larger point – DE and VT have produced no shortage of highly effective legislators.
When people are talking about this phenomenon it seems to be directed at the the rural western states – WY, MT, SD, ND, AK – and they likely include Idaho so its more “small and rural” than anything else.
CynDee
@Red Kitten:
When I was born my parents lived in south Texas (no AC then). She hung a damp sheet next to my crib and put the fan on it.
Thoughcrime
Our economy already is one great Ponzi Scheme. Our healthcare will now be one great Enzi Scheme.
General Winfield Stuck
All we have to do is turn our boys loose, then it’s back to the football game.
Napoleon
@RedKitten:
Well she didn’t leave him after she had the child, so I assume he did.
She is a really nice person but as she neared the end of the 9 months she was hard to be around.
RedKitten
She actually managed to be pleasant up until almost the very end, even suffering like she was? That woman is a goddamn saint.
Napoleon
@RedKitten:
No, I think around the time of the broke toe(s) she became insufferable.
harlana pepper
Highlighting the frenetic activity the overhaul has spurred in Washington, health interests have reported spending *$262 million* lobbying in the first six months of 2009, more than any other portion of the economy, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.
That was $23 million more than health-related companies and groups spent lobbying during the first half of 2008.
AP News
RedKitten
@ Napoleon: can you blame her? In her position, I would have felt perfectly justified in stabbing random people with a rusty fork. Poor thing.
harlana pepper
@kay: The other day, I heard a talk-show caller refer to Reid as “the flaccid bridegroom” which seems appropriate.
harlana pepper
Redkitten, when is your due date?
anonevent
@Napoleon: Which is why Enzi wanted the leadership to promise that what came out of Finance would be what was sent to the president. He knows what he passes won’t mean anything otherwise.
bob h
The Founding Fathers both founded and condemned our nation via the institution of the Senate.
RedKitten
@harlana pepper: August 13th.
schrodinger's cat
I can has cookie?
ericvsthem
@RedKitten: very cool, my wife has the same due date.
Anon
Baucus doesn’t need any Republicans. Bipartisanship is a cover for his own choices. I think the problem he’s facing is that as Republicans won’t even go for the weak tea he’s trying to serve he looks more and more stupid mewing about bipartisanship and it’s more and more obvious what his game is, as if it wasn’t obvious enough to begin with.
Batocchio
I think it’s inaccurate to say Baucus got played. He’s been shilling for the insurance companies the whole time. It’s a fair assumption that the outcome is pretty much what he wanted. Kennedy would have fought these bastards – Baucus is one of the bastards.
mai naem
Late to the thread as usual. Baucus who wants to Fuckus has not been played. I think he’s going to pull a Billy Tauzin and get a spectacular gazillion dollar deal next year with some healthcare lobby organization. I keep on meaning to go to Intrade and see if they will put up a bet on that. He’s 67 and probably thinks he needs to make money for retirement and his kids. Also too, he divorced last year. It was a pretty long marriage so you figure the ex probably got a good chunk of change from the divorce.