We may have to wait longer than I thought for the WaPo Bolton/Wolfowitz/Kristol/Kagan piece calling Clinton an appeaser, since Bolton lauched a pre-emptive appeasement accusation in today’s paper, but Instaputz finds PJ luminary Claudia Rosett is fast out of the gate with the a-word:
What will be the real costs of this high-profile brand of ransom payment? It’s not only the tyrant regime of Pyongyang that’s noting the rewards of hostage politics – which is becoming hard to distinguish from Obama’s broad efforts in any event to engage with the world’s most ruthless and manipulative tyrannies. Iran has just picked up three Americans accused by Iranian authorities of straying over the border from Iraq. Which ex-president should Iran now expect to come calling? Or, given the current calculus of hostage politics, and appeasement whatever the cost, should we expect that Obama will do it himself?
ppcli
“Iran has just picked up three Americans accused by Iranian authorities of straying over the border from Iraq. Which ex-president should Iran now expect to come calling?”
Oooh! Oooh! Send Bush! Send Bush! Pleasepleaseplease!
El Cruzado
Instead, we should do like St. Ronnie: sell weapons to them.
General Winfield Stuck
My guess is Bolton would be pleased as punch if Obama had just traded some big guns for hostages, like Saint Ronnie Roo. You can never go wrong with guns, when you have bigger guns and a better excuse now to use them.
What’s to be gained by just asking for their release.
Neocon answer – Nothing but flowers :(.
AhabTRuler
but, but, but…Neville Chamberlain, that’s what!
Cat Lady
They just can’t stand success. There must only always be failure, because they are failures, with the most tightly clenched butts ever clenched.
Lavocat
It’s called respect. It’s amazing the things one can accomplish when one actually respects people.
It’s like how I was taught manners as a child: saying “thank you” and “please” costs you nothing and wins you respect.
Think of the same thing on a grander scale. Clinton goes to North Korea. Merely GOING to North Korea acknowledges them and, by its very nature, grants them a modicum of respect.
Clinton merely said “please”.
And, because of his nice manners, he has won the respect of his host, who has repaid him in kind.
Two women have literally been saved in the process.
I call that a damned fine day’s work. All bought and paid for with the price (free!) of good manners.
In turn, I have newfound respect for a man I did not think I could respect any less. He is a deeply-flawed man with a good heart.
Besides, life is full of second acts.
gex
Why can’t these guys ever take people like Claudia hostage? Let’s see what she thinks about hostage negotiations then. Does the right wing wish that American hostages get murdered by their captors like that douche from the military does?
r€nato
Well, Reagan’s dead so he’s out. But Poindexter and Ollie North are still around and they know a thing or two about “appeasing” Iran to obtain hostages.
Now, if only they can figure out a way to get Iran to keep the American hostages until the next presidential election…
r€nato
@gex:
Yes, so long as it’s not anybody they know or nobody who is on their side of the ideological divide.
This has been another edition of…
ppcli
Among the dimensions of dumb is the idea that Iran is somehow offending decency by detaining Americans who are wandering around on their territory without visas.
.
(Oh, no! Undocumented aliens! Ooops – wrong wingnut topic.)
.
Is the suggestion that if we respond with simple diplomatic overtures to obtain their release we are acting weakly, while if we just act in a threatening, uncommunicative and relentlessly bellicose manner then Iran will be more inclined to allow American nationals to freely wander around Iranian terrain unmolested?
The Dangerman
So, the Right complained about Obama when the 3 Somali pirates got popped (should have just talked)….
…and now that we’ve just talked, well, that’s bad, too.
They should just go grab some of their dirty po(r)n (I think it’s written by Michelle Malkin for them) and just go the fuck away.
r€nato
@The Dangerman:
now you get it.
Cash For Clunkers was an utter failure, because the response was overwhelming.
But if Cash for Clunkers had been appropriated $2 billion or $3 billion, it would have been a government welfare boondoggle.
Heads they win, tails you lose.
PaulW
I was right! I was right! Clinton appeased the North Koreans by upgrading their cable to FiOS! DAMN HIM!
JD Rhoades
Wingnut Logic:
Clinton is a drug dealing murdering impeached rapist who was a disgrace not only to the Presidency but to the country as a whole…
But his visiting North Korea was a huge boon and concession to that country….
Ooooh…kay.
burnspbesq
@PaulW:
And I heard he brought them FIVE CASES of Cheetos, and a copy of Season 2 of Mad Men.
Now they’re fucking doomed.
There’s yer Soft Power.
JGabriel
Claudia Rosett:
Ooh, I recommend Dubya! No security detail.
.
ellaesther
@r€nato: Maybe if they bring birthday cake…?
No wait, that didn’t actually work when McFarlane did that at Reagan’s behest… http://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/11/us/mcfarlane-took-cake-and-bible-to-teheran-ex-cia-man-says.html
Ah, hypocrisy. You’re my favority -isy!
Phoenician in a time of Romans
Iran has just picked up three Americans accused by Iranian authorities of straying over the border from Iraq.
Lessee – you’ve invaded the country to the right of them, and you’ve invaded the country to the left of them. Do you think that might be colouring their perceptions on these matters?
ellaesther
I am fascinated by the fact that people keep talking like the cases of Iran and North Korea are in any way comparable.
Iran: Limited democracy with a recently-proven vibrant underground civil society, which turned out in millions when an election was stolen, in part because of the horrible economic down-turn in that country, during which upheaval the civil society managed to thoroughly undermine the legitimacy of the regime and is likely to see a new system in its lifetime, as a result of its actions. Also: Has regular, if under the table, contact with the United States, via intermediaries. A theocracy, based in a 1,400 year old religion adhered to by millions.
North Korea: (about which I, admittedly, know less): A crazy man’s one-man dictatorship in which the vast majority of people are on the brink of starvation and have no say, in any form — not even via leaflets left for them by other countries, which, if found in their possession, could lead to their arrest. Also: Has no contact, of any kind, with any outside power. Country’s leader a self-proclaimed divine, whose “powers” are taught as fact in North Korean schools.
Getting Americans — any Americans — out of Iran, and getting Americans out of North Korea are two very different tasks.
But they’re all vaguely brown, right? And want nuclear weapons? And read in a weird alphabet? So they must be all the same.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
Bubba goes home with two ladies. That’s news the Right can use!
stibbert
heh, remember when Jesse Jackson flew into Damascus in 1984 & managed the release of a captured pilot, Lt. Goodman?
i don’t think the Lt’s family & friends were all “send him back, no appeasement, we don’t want him ’til after we’ve achieved FINAL VICTORY!”
ntm the added fillip of ‘private citizen Jackson’ pulling that off in the face of the Raygunner’s Dept. of Eternal War ‘Gainst the Evil Empire. IIRC, Reagan’s State Dept. couldn’t do anything but applaud listlessly from the sidelines.
today’s wonderful news underscores Pres. Obama’s genius in tapping Hillary Clinton as SecState. When her husband can act as an ‘unofficial emissary’, we all win & can rejoice in the 2 journalists’ release.
an episode like this gives both sides the ability to reduce current tensions & work forward.
Robertdsc-iphone
Speaking of ex-Presidents, I wouldn’t mind seeing Jimmy Carter making the moral case here at home for a national health plan. In fact, bringing the Big Dog in on that too would be a strong force.
Robert Waldmann
I strongly doubt that Khameini or Ahmedinejad would want Clinton in Iran. I’d guess he’s a bit more popular over there than they are at the moment and you know he wants to do a Bobby Kennedy on a car in South Africa immitation.
What about the hikers you say ? Would they trust Clinton not to put his ego first ? I sure wouldn’t.
Morbo
Hermes: “What do we do if we break somebody’s window?” Dwight: “Pay for it?” Hermes: “O hohoho, heavens no. We apologize. With nice cheap words.”
Brachiator
@gex:
Unfortunately, kinda yes. I just listened to a couple of conservative talk show goons claim that the two released reporters, as well as the people currently being detained by Iran, are all from San Franciso.
The implication was that these people were so insulated by a tyrant-appeasing, touchy-feely world view that they don’t understand how dangerous the world is and unnecessarily put themselves in jeopardy.
-For the sake of reference, because I don’t slam fools like this without the possibility of corroboration, it was the Kennedy and Suits radio show, 7pm segment on AM 640 KFI in Los Angeles.
Even more amazing, while talking to a friend of the journalists, one of the hosts fired off a tasteless and sexist (though somewhat funny) joke about the journalists and Bill Clinton. And of course, the talk show hosts had previously been among those whining about the supposedly mean-spirited jokes aimed at Sarah Palin.
Allan
It’s a damn shame that the North Koreans didn’t behead Ling and Lee on videotape. Maybe we’ll get lucky with the kids in Iran.
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OriGuy
Back in February, National Geographic had an article about Christian missionaries smuggling people out of North Korea. While their actions are undeniably brave and noble, I wonder what the right-wingers’ attitude would be if some of them had been the hostages.
Bootlegger
@r€nato: A false liberal moral equivalent! The Iranian hostages Ronnie and Ollie freed were innocent embassy staffers, the new Iranian hostages are evil members of the librul media. Duh.
Bootlegger
@ellaesther:
Axis of Weird Alphabets (includes Russian and Chinese)
Nazgul35
Do you think if the Iranians produce Ronnie Raygun’s autographed Bible to the Ayatollah will make their heads explode?
dadanarchist
The best part is that the PJ wingnut is taking as truthful a report about the meetings put out by the North Korean press.
The North Korean press! – even more “fair and balanced” than Fox Noise.
Doug
I believe that “w” would be just the former president to volunteer go to Iran.