My friend Rottenchester, who maintains the blog FIghting29th, just returned from a town hall meeting near Rochester, NY, held by my Congressman, Eric Massa (NY-29).
The crowd seemed equally divided between supporters of single-payer health care, and those opposed to government-run health care. Some of the supporters of government health care were identified by signs supporting HR 676. A few of the opponents sported yellow t-shirts and caps emblazoned with wesurroundrochester.com, which marked them as Glenn Beck followers. Why anyone would want to be identified as such is yet another mystery of the evening.
[…..]Massa, who had to remind the crowd to be polite a number of times, took the heckling in stride. He began the meeting by displaying the current healthcare bill, HR 3200, and pointed out that he had read the whole thing. Unfortunately, the same could not be said of most of those in attendance. Instead, many had to make do with emails from right wing organizations eager to spread falsehoods about the bill.
Perhaps the most glaring example of that was a gentleman who was actually crying by the time he was done asking his question. He believed, wrongly, that some language had been added to the bill that would allow government funds to pay for abortions. Massa repeatedly and patiently explained that this was impossible, because the Hyde Amendment prohibits the use of government funds to pay for abortions. This has been true since 1976, and, unfortunately, will be true for years to come, but green polo shirt in the front row wasn’t going to accept Massa’s answer. He thought government funds were going to be used to “kill babies”.
Politico has an interesting story about the pressure Massa has been getting from health care reform advocates as well.
beltane
Why are these people fighting for the right of insurance companies to rob us, deny us care, and drive us into bankruptcy?
Gravenstone
How to lose the message war. Listening to the WGN susperstation news broadcast just now and their evening poll was whether viewers believed the Town Hall protests were staged or not – only 29% believe them staged. This is a station that reaches large swathes of the midwest and while the poll was clearly non-scientific, it is not a positive sign.
Third Eye Open
I want in on all the fun, but our Rep. Allen Boyd has no scheduled meetings so far. His office is giving me the run around on any questions about his proposed meetings this month, or where he stands on some of the more contentious issues with HCR.
For the record, Beck and his merry-pranksters can surround my puckered ass-h*le with their wagging tongues.
rob!
What do you do, how do you run a country, when a solid percentage of its citizenry are stupid to the point of near retardation?
ominira
Would be nice if someone polled people about whether or not they realize medicare is “government run healthcare.” That’d be a good place to start. We could then have follow-up polls asking how many would like to see all “government run healthcare” (including medicare and the VA) eliminated, breaking it down by age. I think that would really help focus the healthcare debate.
Legalize
“What do you do, how do you run a country, when a solid percentage of its citizenry are stupid to the point of near retardation?”
Ram reform down their throats like you force a child to brush its teeth when it’s 4 years old.
Incertus
Sounds pretty tame. Tampa had some physical altercations, apparently. How long before someone pulls out a gun at one of these things? A month? A week?
Chuck Butcher
I begin to wonder if from here on out the entire reform will consist of window dressing designed to indicate something has been done and leaving the status quo in effect other than putting larger piles of cash into HealtInc’s hands and enabling larger contributions to the wholly owned subsidiary of investment banking and healthinc (once known as Congress).
I’ll reserve total cynicism for seeing the final version and complete fury for the fulfillment of my fears. Once single payer was removed as the complete opposition to the taxbreak for status quo position the bargining shifted to that side and the fact that bargining is even happening once single payer was gone is alarming.
Just Some Fuckhead
@ominira:
I’d still feel a little better about things if we could somehow prove we aren’t paying for the abortions of Medicare’s 40 million seniors over the age of 65.
kay
The Washington Post has “Health-Care Reform” The GOP is Propogating Falsehoods”.
It’s Pearlstein, so a “column”, but the first paragraph uses the word “lie”.
I almost fell off my chair. Really. Right there in the middle of the page. “Propagating falsehoods” and “lie”. Maybe we’ve reached our bullshit tolerance on this, placated and coddled the GOP base sufficiently, and now we can have a grown-up debate.
PeakVT
He thought government funds were going to be used to “kill babies”.
Never mind that the lack of funds is killing adults and children right now.
I’m really tired of the fetishization of the fetus.
madmommy
@beltane:
Because they are as dumb as a bag of hammers. Willfully ignorant, and criminally obtuse.
If I see one more Medicare codger screeching about how government healthcare will be the ruin of us all I’m going to snap.
ominira
@Just Some Fuckhead: I fully share your concern. I’ll wear my “abstinence for seniors” t-shirt & stand beside you at a townhall weeping copious tears as you put that question to an unsuspecting congressperson.
rob!
@Legalize:
A four year old can’t drive himself to a town hall, or call a congressman and threaten his life. These knuckle-draggers are eventually going to shoot someone.
Michael
Those goat humping geezers better hope that there isn’t a townhall in my neck of the woods. I will show up, and I will collect some teeth for their rude behavior, fuck the consequences.
SpotWeld
Two things
1. “….the supporters of government health care were identified by signs supporting HR 676.”
&
2. “…the opponents sported yellow t-shirts and caps … which marked them as Glenn Beck followers”
And that’s pretty much the situation in a nutshell.
Mike G
Would be nice if someone polled people about whether or not they realize medicare is “government run healthcare.”
Olbermann had a good clip from one of these clown-hall meetings. An astute woman asked the audience how many in the room opposed ‘government-run healthcare’ and about 3/4 of the room put their hands up. Then she asked how many people were on Medicare and about 3/4 of the room, mostly the same people, put their hands up again.
This kind of King Stupid makes me wish we could kick people off Medicare for the pre-existing condition of chronic assholishness.
Montysano
@madmommy:
The video from Arkansas sent me over the edge… and I was at work at the time, ranting and snarling like a crazy man. But Jeebus: a woman who looked to be pushing 80 years old, screeching “Why do we have ta chayyynnnnnnnge? The govt don’t need to be messin’ around with insurance!1”. And of course “Ah want ma country back! I’ze skeeered”
Gold Star for Robot Boy
but green polo shirt in the front row wasn’t going to accept Massa’s answer.
And that’s the problem – these people never will accept facts that go against their beliefs. They can’t be wrong, so reality must be!
Indylib
@Montysano: I showed that clip to my husband and he asked me what the hell she was talking about, wanting HER America back, and I told him that I was pretty sure “her” America was the one who would never elect a black man as President. Douchebag racist bat.
Ash
@Mike G: I just seriously don’t understand these old folks who don’t understand that Medicare is government run. What is it that makes them so stupid? It’s not just because they’re old. I hope.
kay
@Mike G:
It’s because they were lied to. They were told the government would be employing the doctors and running the hospitals.
They know how Medicare works. They know they pick a doctor and that doctor bills the Medicare program a fee for services. They think this will change, and that lie was deliberately and carefully spread, so they wouldn’t make the connection to Medicare.
Michael
She embarrassed me to be white. Were we always that chickenshittedly fearful?
Gold Star for Robot Boy
No, we definitely were not that chickenshittedly fearful.
Which is what I don’t understand about Glen Beck’s 9-12 thingie. He wants us all to go back to that day’s mindset. But, Glen, America was scared, confused, angry and – most of all – not thinking with a clear head. We should look back at that day and declare it to be our preferred default, why?
kay
@Ash:
I just have to defend them a little. It’s a profound and deliberate deception. They’re being told that we will have a system where the government actually runs the works, and the independent entities like “doctors” and “hospitals” will be directly employed by the government and government run. That isn’t like Medicare. They think that will happen to Medicare.
And the Washington Post, just today, got around to pointing that out.
mcd410x
scenes from Tampa tonight. there’s pics and video… http://is.gd/25OiU
best pic is on the frontpage http://tbo.com
Montysano
@Indylib:
Precisely. This is about race. What else could it be? Sadly, in a time when we could use some radical change, there is nothing radical about Obama.
I’m sensing an ominous shift in the dialogue. Rachel Maddow interviewed Tim Phillips, founder of Americans for Prosperity. If I heard him correctly, he essentially said “Yeah, we’re plugging the corporate line because that’s what’s best for the average American” and “If a mob is what it takes to win, so be it”. IOW, they’re operating right out in the open now, testing the limits of American stupidity/gullibility. And guess what? Far too many Americans can be made to believe virtually anything.
mcd410x
several of the protesters were from tampa glenn beck 9-12.
it was crazy.
bago
I think this is rather sublime. I should print up a bunch of copies and hand them out to old people at rallies and town-halls.
shoutingattherain
@Montysano:
I’m sittin’ here watching “Squidbillies” and I swear that sounds like something Early Cuyler just said. Life/art etc.
Ganbare Gincun
@Michael:
You, sir, are not a student of history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba18U3Fx1pE
ominira
@Mike G: Wish I’d seen this. Is there a clip online?
Ash Can
Someone posted at DKos this evening about John Dingell’s town hall meeting being a mess as well.
This is getting out of hand, people. Sane folks need to take back this dialogue. We all need to be checking if our congresspeople are having meetings, and we need to show the hell up at them — or at least contact our representatives and tell them that, despite the manufactured histrionics at their meetings, we’re in favor of catching up to the rest of the civilized world in terms of health care for our nation’s citizens.
Mark S.
Jesus, where do people get these ideas?
@Ash Can: That sounded freaking insane. I was especially touched by the guy who pushed his handicapped son up to the podium and told the congressman, “your healthcare plan is going to take healthcare away from my son and kill him.” I really hope there are medical detectors at these events.
This country is totally fucked.
Mark S.
“Metal detectors,” not “medical detectors.”
jcricket
@Ash:
Exactly right. When your opponents are filthy rich, connected to titans of industry and willing to lie with complete and uter abandon, it’s very difficult to fight back.
You have to have the patience of Job and the fighting skills of Batman.
Democrats suck on both counts. We back down too easily, we are afraid to come even close to demonizing the other side, and too often we accept their framing of the situation (so we’re always on the defensive, like the abortion issue).
This despite the fact that, scare-mongering induced-polls notwithstanding, the public is totally on the side of Democratic policies and politics.
Sure, the inevitability of the GOP wingnut brigade dragging their party into completely fucking the economy and overall into KKK territory is blunting the impact of this, but only barely.
I always say I blame the Republicans for being lying assholes and wrong about everything. But I also blame Democrats for failing to succeed when we’re so right.
Martin
My congressman is a birfer that hands out Ayn Rand books. I’m not going to one of his meetings. I’d rather drink bleach.
Martin
Talk radio and email lists.
parksideq
Another altercation in St. Louis, via TPM. Jeezus, this is starting to get out of hand/irritating. It’s ok to protest, but the vitriol that’s being hurled is just unreal.
It’s gonna be a long, hot August.
Janet Strange
@Martin: Yep. Here’s a short excerpt from ONE of the ones I’ve gotten so far (not even going to try to blockquote):
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill – HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Pg 58 HC Bill – Govt will have real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! [Mark of the Beast? Rev 13]
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in labor unions & community organizations [such as ACORN].
Etc. Etc. It goes on. There’s much much more. I should add that one of the emails I got (not as obviously wingnutty – no “mark of the beast” crap, but just as filled with lies) – was forwarded from a retired biology professor, who has a Ph.D. and is not “stupid” in the usual sense of the word.
srv
@bago: Finally, someone getting a clue. We really need a stop TriCare version too.
Viva BrisVegas
Have a look at Sully for a birds eye view of a town hall meeting in Florida.
The “don’t tase me bro” guy must be wondering what he did wrong. Compared to these fine examples he was very low key.
The beckbots can run riot through these meetings and all they seem to get is an indulgent nod from the MSM.
How come those rogue cops with tasers are never where you need them?
Das Internetkommissariat
@Viva BrisVegas:
A black professor gets arrested, in his own house no less, for disorderly conduct and these hooligans are free to do as they please?
No, this is not racism. Move along, nothing to see here.
someguy
I think they have the right idea in St. Louis. Bring out the union goons and have them kick the fuck out of the Beck goons. I particularly like the panic coming from the one of the Beck fans at the Tampa town hall meeting. “Oooooh nooeess, they gots guns.” The cops responded to that by reminding the winger that it’s America, anybody who wants to can carry a gun. I guess the Becksters are okay with intimidating people, but they don’t like when their targets intimidate back.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Christ, I hope they’re searching the people who attend these things. I really don’t want to be treated to another rerun of Confederate Wankee’s “If only everyone at the town hall had a gun, they could have stopped the crazed shooter.”
@ominira: And Medicaid and SCHIP and TRICARE and CHAMPUS…
drillfork
@Chuck Butcher:
Ding, ding, ding…
drillfork
@Mark S.:
I thought the PATRIOT Act took care of that…
someguy
@ Janet Strange
Pretty much everything they claim about what the health care bill would do is a flat out lie of the highest order.
You are correct in asserting that some of the Republican dead-enders opposing the bill are not stupid in the usual sense of the word.
The fact is, that they are *unusually* stupid. Though “extraordinarily” might be a better descriptor their, because somebody might read “unusually” to mean “not all the time.” Trust me, they are this stupid all the time.
Janet Strange
@someguy: Nope, the retired professor is not “unusually stupid” – he’s not even a Republican dead-ender. He voted straight Democratic ticket last election.
He’s like our host a few years ago. A lifelong Republican who has become disgusted by what the R’s have become, but hasn’t yet realized how dishonest and manipulative they have been for decades – and how much his own perceptions have been shaped by the lies.
So he still falls for disinformation campaigns. In my experience, people who see themselves as “smart” are more vulnerable to manipulation than they realize – they think they’re too smart to fall for it.
NonWonderDog
@Ash Can:
That’s insane. I live in Dingell’s district (west Dearborn), and from all appearances he’s one of the most popular politicians in the state. Romulus is full of racist fucks, though, being right in the middle of the “white flight” ring around Detroit, so that might have everything to do with the opposition to the president’s plan.
There’s also the fact that Romulus wasn’t part of Dingell’s district until the 2003 Republican gerrymandering deleted Lynn Rivers’ seat, so maybe Dingell isn’t as popular out there as in the rest of his district.
WereBear
Montysano@ 27:
Yes, I would like our President to more far more liberal.
But this President cannot be that President.
Look how whacked the wingnuts are over a basic centrist in a nice suit.
One step to the left, and they’d lose it completely. You’d have to wear slickers to the town halls, there would be so much unhinged shrieking.
internetjoe
First on 9-12 i was fighting this right wing on the front lines – Our system admin in Arizona decided to use the front page of a national magazines web site to practice hate speech and take control away from our editorial offices in NYC.
I had to steal the site back for the company.
What is happening today should not be a surprise, GOP is Evil.
Second, why link to politico …..it just encourages there press release journalism. They are Fox in 8-bit , a lower form of life.
someguy
The that would make him unusually stupid, Janet. A lot of book smart people are unusually stupid, easily duped and susceptible to the most ridiculous arguments. Take the National Review crowd, for instance. Tons of grad degrees between them… and still dumber than fenceposts; the conversation picks up 25 IQ points when they stop speaking.
Most people, on the other hand, seem to be usually stupid. That is they are dumb and not particularly well educated, easily duped, and susceptible to the most ridiculous arguments.
zoe kentucky
This movement is a lot of Glenn Beck followers– they are the original teabaggers. Full of anger, hysteria, lies and fear and led by a man who is quite possibly the craziest winger around who has a 3 hours radio show and a tv show on FoxNews. I tune into his radio show every once in a while and it’s about 10x more inflammatory than his tv show– just last week he said that the push for health care refrom was “just like what Pol Pot did, just like Stalin and Hitler.” He also goes on end-of-the-world tirades frequently and tells people they need to be prepared by stocking up on guns and food. Seriously. Not exaggerating. This is dangerous stuff.
Anyone who listens to Glenn Beck and thinks he’s sane and credible is someone we need to collectively worry about. These are not stable people. Beck makes Limbaugh look like a kitten playing with a ball of yarn.
reid
@WereBear:
I just finished watching the McLaughlin Group from last week. The right-wing loon (Monica Crowley) consistently refers to Obama and leaders of Congress as “far left”, and even regurgitated the “Obama #1 most liberal senator” line. Eleanor Clift has a full-time job whacking sense into her, John, and Pat.
I need to stop watching that show, it’s been supremely idiotic for at least 1.5 years….
Elie
There is a lot of pus in the wound. It will take patience and a lot of painful work to clean it and help it heal.
This was always going to be hard. Always.
Maybe its more difficult because Obama is black, but I doubt it.. this change would always generate the most ruthless and vocal opposition.
Please do not be overly impressed by the mob. They want us to back down. We cannot…
We have to pass health reform even if only 5% of the people so called support it. Medicare almost did not make in back in the 60’s and the political atmosphere was much less poisonous…
We have to keep pushing our leaders to do the right thing and hope that we stay brave and resolute..
Martian Buddy
@WereBear: They’ve already lost it completely; short of violence, how can they escalate from “Secret Muslim CommieNazi?” Indeed, I’d argue that a centrist Democrat is exactly what we needed right now. By tagging all the president’s policies as “extreme,” “sociałist,” “Marxist,” and so forth, the loony mob of wingnuts is just wasting ammunition–and might even end up inadvertently restoring liberalism to respectability with the American public.
latts
@Third Eye Open:
I stopped by Jim Cooper’s office today to ask if there were any public meetings scheduled, and the pleasant young man at the front desk was really evasive until I told him that I didn’t really need much information at this point but wanted to be sure to show up to oppose the troublemakers. I’m white and a Gen-Xer in the South, so I guess the default assumption about me is Republican, even in an urban area. Anyway, the office has my contact info and I’m on several local mailing lists, so if Cooper decides to face the crazies, I’m there too.