ABC news runs down the source of the death panels nonsense:
It seems that it started with some remarks by former New York Lt. Gov. Betsy McCaughey on “The Fred Thompson Show” radio program July 16.
“This is a vicious assault on elderly people, all to do what’s in society’s best interest, or your family’s best, and cut your life short,” she said.
Her comments had spread online and seniors started asking pointed questions.
And then the Wasilla wingnut chimed in on her facebook page, and here we are today. And back to my point from a previous post- being an outright liar has been very lucrative for McCaughey- she’s been spreading the same lies for decades. And she probably makes a pretty penny doing it.
It is worth noting that we have the always execrable Marty Peretz to thank for McCaughey’s rise in the 90’s during the Clinton health care reform efforts. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
Hunter Gathers
Lying is a very lucrative venture.
Ash
Fred Thompson has a radio show? Jesus Christ on a frickin’ cracker.
General Winfield Stuck
@Hunter Gathers:
Barnum and Bailey built a whole Circus with it.
harlana pepper
For anyone who has received the e-mail listing all the scareh things the initial House bill/Obama health care is gonna do, you might want to counter with this: pleasecutthecrap.com.
Zach
Andrew Sullivan’s more to blame than Peretz on that score.
Pasquinade
Rightwing continuum of crazy: birthers…….deathers
Joe Lisboa
NCTing (not concern trolling), but: anyone else a little, uh, concerned about the President’s town hall scheduled in NH today? Between the guns dropping out of protestors’ pants and the sheer unhinged lunacy at the congress critters’ town halls, I shudder to think what some nut will say or do today. I guess I’m not really sweating the physical safety angle (the Secret Service crew are bad assess for good reason) so much as the framing angle: how in the world do you keep your cool when some nutter starts screaming that you’re going to kill their baby with a death panel? What I wouldn’t give for a “Everybody chill the fuck out, I got this” moment from the Prez today.
General Winfield Stuck
@Joe Lisboa:
I think Obama should let in the nuttiest of the nutters, hand the mic to them and turn on the cameras. Then sit back and sigh easy.
Bernie
Zach’s right. Sully deserves the blame for foisting Betsy onto the stage when he “edited” her fact challenged No Exit article in The New Republic back in the 1990’s.
Deborah
So from McCaughey to Bachmann to Palin to this crazy woman on the Post’s op-ed pages today (the point is that the health care bill feels like it might lead people to rip your baby from your arms and turn it into a nutritional supplement, so the people who talk about “death panels” are correct, even if there are no “death panels” per se in the bill), the female side of wingnuttia is out in force on this. I’m embarrassed.
Yes, I know Gingrich doubled down on Palin’s claim (can’t have her outbasing him). But between this crew and Orly Taitz, face of the birthers–don’t the wingnuts have some female members who are not deeply stupid?
JGabriel
I keep hearing about Obama’s Health Care Man-Dates. I’m straight! I don’t want Obama’s Death Panels making me gay!
.
Ash
@Joe Lisboa: Not really. When Obama’s one on one with people he does a pretty good job of exposing teh crazeeeeeee.
Deborah
@Joe Lisboa:
A few posts down is Pareilla (sp?) facing down sputterers with calm good sense, leading to the priceless “Well, you’re just trying to get me to agree with you!” from his questioner. Mostly the CongressCritters have kept their cool in the attack of untrue talking points. (No death panels. Really.) And it makes their attackers look more and more silly and uninformed.
Obama is known for keeping his cool and tactical judo. And he had the recent Gates thing to remind him to think twice about speaking off the cuff. I really think there’s nothing to worry about.
Halteclere
Every time I hear or read the name Fred Thompson I have a hearty laugh at all the star-struck conservatives who looked deep into Fred’s Law and Order eyes and knew he was The One to answer their presidential prayers.
What a spectacular bust, whose only saving grace was Giuliani’s even more spectacular bust.
kansi
This ABC piece is encouraging, but the push back has to be more pointed and much more frequent. Matthews had a GOP congressman on last night who was loudly booed at a town hall for telling folks to turn off Glenn Beck whenever he comes on the TV. Seriously folks, what sane person thinks it would be a successful campaign pledge for Congressional candidates to say “Vote for me and I’ll kill your Grandma.”
Rosali
What’s really scary is that NY Gov. David Paterson has low poll numbers and many NY Dems are concerned that it it could lead to repugs gaining seats.
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
Many of these people are the same people who believe we found WMD’s in Iraq. Watcha gonna do? They believe anything that fits into their world view. They look for anything that validates what they believe to be true. The rest is just noise, or liberal bias, or both. The people telling the lies know that and provide the fodder accordingly.
kay
“As a result of these consultations, LaCrosse resident Ann Kottnaur said she now knows that her mother Margaret, who has Parkinson’s disease and dementia, would rather die at home than in a nursing home. ”
Think about that for a minute. Her mother has dementia, and it’s advancing. The LaCrosse hospital gave them an opportunity to straighten it out and put it in writing before her mother could NOT express an opinion. It is the polar opposite of what they’re portraying it as.
You know, it occurs to me that most people who actually draft an advanced directive opt for less medical or state intervention, not more. Less intervention is less profitable than more intervention. How much of this ridiculous lie is driven by a profit motive?
Punchy
Just how long can The Crazies keep up this white-hot rage at Obama? They’ve already burned through the “NObama iz a Natsee” meme. That’s a pretty strong card to play, and they’ve already showed it 6 months in. They LONG ago flamed out “social’ist”, “fascist”, “muslim”, and “liberal”. So it’s only August 2009 and they’ve used up their worstest, most disgusting, most vile insult with the “Obama = Hilter” shit.
So here’s my question — since they really cant crank it up much more past Hilter (honestly, is there anyone worse?), how in hell are they going to maintain this rage in a year or two? This is as bad as it’ll ever be, right?
Brandon
@Zach:
I too think that we should not let Andrew Sullivan off so easy on this score.
JGabriel
Betsy McCaughey and Sarah Palin. What a pair.
That’s the gaffe that keeps on gaffing.
.
kay
@Brandon:
You can blame him for a lot more than that. He thinks tort reform and deregulation will solve our health care problems.
Christ. That’s just lazy. He’s not even bothering to dress up the 1990’s conservative arguments. Did he miss the financial collapse? He wants to deregulate?
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
Atrios:
If only.
R-Jud
@Punchy: My prediction is that it will abate slightly and then re-run through all the phases you’ve mentioned every few seasons. The Wingnut El Nino, sorta.
Poopyman
Yep. It’s on the Mutual Network, right after Lum and Abner.
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
@The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America: OOOOooooooppppppssssss! Meant to link this:
http://twitter.com/Atrios/status/3245963226
Napoleon
@General Winfield Stuck:
Bingo, those people are gold to the Dems. Like someone else said in another thread, they are scoring on their own goal.
GregB
I’m more worried about President Obama’s the forced gender assignments.
Will Ru Paul sit on that panel?
-G
PeakVT
if only “crazy” single payer advocates got this much attention
If they aren’t advocating more unnecessary deaths, they can’t be Serious People™.
/Villager
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Ash:
How does he get his red pickup truck to come out thru the radio, I wonder?
Ash
Lots off conservatards like to say Stalin was worse, since he killed millions of people AND was a godless communist.
Zifnab
@Poopyman: The Mutual Network? Sounds like a bunch of pot-smoking commie-loving hippies to me.
Brick Oven Bill
1. The public health care system is broke.
2. The most valuable people in any society are those aged 15-40.
3. Health care costs for this group are small.
4. The majority of people older than 65 have negative net value due to public entitlements.
5. Health care costs for this group are large.
When the money runs out, of course old people will have public health care denied to them. I wish the Administration would have the guts to come out and say it. Instead, more misrepresentations. Courage Barack, courage.
Punchy
@Napoleon: What newscast are you watching? All I see are Repub talking points being repeated and endowed with veracity by Couric, Williams, Gregory, and their ilk.
We aint winning this battle. It aint even close.
Ash
@Punchy: If the last year has taught us anything at all, it’s that battles aren’t won in the media.
Litlebritdifrnt
When it comes down to it lying is pretty much all they’ve got these days. If you can’t fight the bill or proposal on its merits and have to down right lie about it what does it say about your alternative? Carville was on GMA this morning (with Coulter as a foil) and said something to the effect of “when you’ve got idiots screaming keep the government out of my medicaid you can’t fight that level of stupidity” (and I’ve probably really mangled the quote). There was a rally here last week, I think I mentioned it, and they were all screaming “keep government out of my healthcare” when in reality every one of the “protesters” (this being a military town) are more than likely covered by the VA/ medicaid/tricare etc, and routinely get treated at the government owned and run Naval Hospital on base. The stupid really does burn.
crack
I have to agree with Zach that Sullivan is as much to blame as anyone, and he’s still proud of it.
Napoleon
@Punchy:
I will guarantee you that 75% of the country sees those wack jobs and are totally turned off by them. They are sinking their own side.
Zifnab
@Ash: They could scream Hitler more loudly.
Seriously, if some hobo ninja can put up a “Where’s the Birth Certificate” billboard, why not up the volume further? “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” media ad campaign. Birfer documentaries. They could do a full blown weekly (daily?!) show staring Orly Taitz.
Just get louder and louder. Start a fucking “Church of Conservative Values” and write you’re own god damn Holy Book declaring personal responsibility, free market capitalism, and an end to the repression of white Americans as fundamental theistic beliefs.
JGabriel
Ash:
You should hear the remix, Brian Eno & Harold Budd’s Ambient Snore: Music for Retirement Homes.
.
El Cid
The Sandinistas are only 2 days’ drive from Harlingen, Texas. If we free up our Savings & Loan institutions from the burden of regulation, they can compete. If we sign trade deals allowing Chinese imports free of tariffs then economic logic will force them to do the same for our products. Wall Street would not take risks which might threaten the entire system because this might put them at risk too.
Napoleon
@Napoleon:
And a PS to my post, what you see the right doing now is so poisoning the Republican brand that Democrats are going to be able to run against the Republicans as the party of nuts for the next 30-40 years, just like the Rep. have been doing since 1968 with the DFH.
The Moar You Know
@Punchy: Hell hath no fury like a white guy with a black boss. The idiots can keep this up for decades.
Zifnab
@Brick Oven Bill:
Medicare is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED! There is no hope! Costs cannot be contained! The end is nigh! Nigh dammit!
America will FAIL! FAIL I TELL YOU! If only we’d embraced free market thinking and told all those old people to just die of cancer already because medical coverage is just too damn expensive, we might be saved. Damn you weak kneed politicians and your talk of “Reducing costs without reducing care” and “Making the system more efficient”. Don’t you realize IT CAN’T BE DONE?!
Some might suggest that a single payer program reaping the massive profits of the private insurance industry could help fill the Medicare gap more quickly and easily. But they’re stinking cheese eating French Communists, or Canadian medical fail scum, or the English walking dead. So i wouldn’t listen to them.
MikeJ
But after that many of them will be dead. Not that we’ll ever be completely rid of the mouthbreathers, but with any luck they’ll be an even tinier minority.
kay
@Napoleon:
It’s infuriating. There’s one sector of the Democratic Party that acts completely without a profit motive, uphill, always, and it’s the incredibly tenacious people who advocate for disabled people, who, let’s face it, have no clout and no money. They’re not even a majority. That’s who she chooses to go after. The people who busted ass to ensure her disabled kid who have a decent shot, for years, well before she appeared on television. As you know. Trig, all by himself, is eligible for SSI disability, and Medicaid. Who did that? It wasn’t Sarah Palin. She was playing basketball.
Jackie
@kay: Who’s profit motive? These people seem mostly linked to the insurance industry and they lose money when you die after two months of futile care in the icu.
I think this just taps into peoples deep seated avoidance of the idea of mortality and the pull of a conspiracy theory that the paranoids can’t ever resist. You’d be suprised at the number of people who resist being an organ donor and signing a living will because they are suspicious that will get them killed the next time they need 3 stitches and a tetanus shot at the er. Don’t get me started on the “going hospice means you are a quitter” brigade. It’s a deep well that the anti reform crowd are happy to tap into to stop the effort.
kay
@Jackie:
Well, someone gets paid, right? Nursing homes get paid, and hospitals get paid, and equipment manufacturers get paid.
I’m not blaming medical people. If there’s no order, they go by state law, and they provide and provide and provide. But even uninsured medical expenditures don’t go unpaid. The money’s spent, and it’s gotta be collected. If not from the bankrupt family, from someone else. Someone pays. They just spread it around.
General Winfield Stuck
@The Moar You Know:
Next up. Peak Wingnut sub-division. At least till the cows come home. Also.
Brick Oven Bill
Glenn Beck is wrong on this one. Society is an aggregation of Citizens. A society made up of strong, smart, and industrious Citizens will outperform and eventually overwhelm a society of similar energy resources that consists of weak, dumb, and lazy Citizens. Emmanuel’s brother recognizes this to some degree and his plan in theory reflects it. What I do not yet understand is his motivations.
Hilter’s plan was to strengthen society by eliminating weak, dumb, and lazy Citizens. His motivation was a master race, which would govern the German state and then subjugate the world and eventually replace what he perceived to be weaker DNA with stronger DNA.
What are Emmanuel’s brother’s motivations? A strong state has historically been very bad for the propagation of Jewish genes. Is Emmanuel ‘s brother a self-hater? I do not believe so as he is very pro-Israel. So I cannot figure out what is going on. Perhaps he is attempting to engineer a race of people that is less threatening to Jews.
But this would be paranoid delusion as white people are very accommodating of Jews in the current America. The Germanic populations of Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and Pennsylvania regularly elect Jewish Senators. This is in contrast to Al Sharpton, who calls Jews interlopers and facilitates their murder. I think Emmanuel’s brother is thinking too much for his own good.
Michael
Don’t forget his “tough as nails” admiral in “Hunt for Red October” saying “this shit is going to get out of hand”.
There’s some Presidential mettle, there. WOLVERINES!
David Hunt
@Punchy:
“So here’s my question—since they really cant crank it up much more past Hilter (honestly, is there anyone worse?), how in hell are they going to maintain this rage in a year or two? This is as bad as it’ll ever be, right?”
Peak Wingnut is a misnomer. Wingnut is not a resource that runs out, but a Platonic Ideal. It’s like the speed of light or Zeno’s paradox. You get closer and closer to it, but you never actually reach it.
So yes, it can get worse and it will. The further steps that I can clearly see are mostly things that have been hinted already, but I expect to happen openly with the intent of people taking them seriously.
First, beyond Hitler, Obama can be openly denounced as the Anti-Christ. I’ve seen the Limbaugh laying the groundwork for whoever wants to pick this up by calling Obama “The Messiah” in an effort dupe people into thinking Obama himself is trying to project that image.
Also, we can have people openly accusing him of actively working against America to deliver her to our Enemies. We can already see beginnings of this in all the personalities who claim that he is a full-blown soci_alist/communist who is out to transform the U.S. into his twisted view of life. It’s just a short jump to open accusations of overt treason.
Finally, there’s the option of openly calling for armed revolt, secession, a coup (probably a call for a military coup), or even calls for assassination. These are the most dangerous as I believe that calling for any of those is a crime. I expect that the Serious People would not openly say call for this, but make clearer and clearer hints, secure in their privilege to protect them from anything that is not overt. Unless they actually managed to foment a military coup, that is. I expect we’d see some interesting writing then…
To make a long rant short (too late, I know), yes it can get worse and it will.
gex
@Punchy: Bullets and bombs. Expecting there to be a natural bound on their crazy is pretty much like stating we’ve reached peak wingnut.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@Brick Oven Bill:
You’re a fucking retard. And a bigot. Too, also.
General Winfield Stuck
Well this is just peachy. MSNBC is showing a protester with a gun strapped to his hip along the route Obama will take to his townhall in NH.
They have NM type laws apparently, where anyone can carry a non-concealed weapon in public. I’m sure the SS may well disagree on National Security grounds, that trump any state law. Nice image to project wingnuts. Keep up the good work.
Punchy
@Napoleon: We’ll have to agree to disagree, cuz I foresee the exact opposite. After November 2004, I’ve learned what a gargantuan mistake it is to overestimate the collective intelligence of our fellow citizens. I hope you’re right and I’m not, but I have too much documented evidence to dismiss my concerns so easily as you did.
Roger Moore
@Punchy:
The only obvious step past Hitler is the Antichrist, which the wingnuts have already started to deploy. Don’t be surprised when somebody compares the public option to being stamped with the number of the beast. It’s got to be coming.
Perry Como
I prefer Abiotic Wingnut, but YMMV.
Perry Como
Even better was the sign he was holding. It said something along the lines of, “It’s time to refresh the tree of liberty.” That’s a none too subtle threat.
RememberNovember
Sully went Galt and is hiding behind a rainbow colored force field.
jwb
@General Winfield Stuck: Personally, besides making sure the facts are getting out, I think we should just more or less ignore the nutters. Really, I’m beginning to think that the problem is not just the MSM’s willingness to cover these nutjobs but the left blogosphere’s obsession with them, which gives the MSM the cover of “well, the nutters will love that we’re covering them and the left will link to us either to dispute or make fun of the nutters. Sounds like win-win to me.” I actually think Obama and the Dems have been trying to ignore the wingnuts, but it’s our obsession with the wingnuts rather than wingnuts themselves that is forcing Obama and the Dems to respond.
Pockmark Notorious
So we have:
Birthers: People who dispute the fact that President Obama was born in the United States.
Deathers: People who believe that health care reform will lead to eldery and disabled to be euthanized.
Dirthers: People who believe that President Obama wasn’t born in the United States AND that he wants to kill off Old and Sick people.
And finally,
Mirthers: People who mock the above mentioned groups?
So what are you?
Scottofny
@Zifnab:
From out of the past comes the voice of a lone listener.
Old enough to grow up with Superman, the Lone Ranger and to know the answer to “…..what evil lurks in the hearts of men?” The Shadow knows…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Broadcasting_System
Hi Yo, Silver, Awaaaaaay
Cheers,
S
Halteclere
@Michael:
Just in time for the remake of Red Dawn, too.
Mike in NC
It’s good to know that there are employment options for people that are too damn ugly to appear on TV.
RandomChick
@jwb:
While I’m personally bored to tears by the nut jobs, I think it would be a missed opportunity to ignore them.
I think it was the attention of the blogs and MSM (and one clever forger) that caused the birther movement to explode so spectacularly lately.
Hopefully the same will happen with the death squad lies.
Personally, I can’t watch one more video of the crazies, but I say carry on with the good work.
Scott
My prediction for the next derangement level: Sometime in the next 12 months, Lou Dobbs will drop the N-word when referring to the president. (Haven’t decided yet whether Beck will beat him to it or not.)
Xenos
I am waiting for Obama=Tamurlane. Or maybe Obama=Sultan Mehmed II (fall of Constantinople). It would be too much of a compliment for the wingnuts to compare Obama to Saladin.
Sigh. I guess it will most likely be a lot more antichrist talk, as that is all the wingnuts are going to relate to.
Da Bomb
@Pockmark Notorious: I am a mirther.
But truly on the inside, I feel like I am a closeted wingnut, who wants to euthanized my mother and grandmother, so I can really feel like a motherless and grannyless child.
Also. You betcha!
Dork
I would love to see a lefty ratfuck a teabagging with large signs that say this, just to see if the dumb-as-fuck wingtards knew whether to agree with ’em or to boo them down. They would have no idea what to do.
Xenos
Ah! here it is. Apologies to E.A.P.
Look ’round thee now on Washington!
Is not she queen of Earth? her pride
Above all cities? in her hand
Their destinies? in all beside
Of glory which the world hath known
Stands she not nobly and alone?
Falling- her veriest stepping-stone
Shall form the pedestal of a throne-
And who her sovereign? Obama- he
Whom the astonished people saw
Striding o’er empires haughtily
A diadem’d outlaw!
I would not try it with Mehmed II. My Greek in-laws would NOT be amused.
Ash Can
Right now, MSNBC.com has the headline up, “How Obama Lost Control of Health Message.” The article itself is long and windy, especially since the actual response to why he lost control of the message — assuming that he in fact did in the first place — is simply that the circle-jerkoffs of corporate media have been treating the pathetic screamers and their ethically-challenged inciters as a legitimate opposition to the current health care reform efforts, and not as the noisy distraction they are.
Brick Oven Bill
Hey Dork; Just as a datapoint, most of the people going to these meetings that I have run into are really not ‘dumb-as-fuck’. Many, I’d even say most, are small businessmen and professionals. It would be nice for DougJ to go to Bathtub Billy’s on the 22nd and get his take on the demographics of those who are taking a stand for the Constitution.
It takes a fairly sophisticated mind to appreciate limited government. The dumber members of society are those who vote themselves short-term benefits.
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
Watch the Portsmouth NH Townhall live via this video feed.
Xenos
@Brick Oven Bill: It takes a fairly sophisticated mind to appreciate limited government.
It takes a fairly weak intellect to consider the ‘limited government’ expounded by you birchers to be a coherent philosophy.
colleeniem
@Rosali: I wouldn’t worry to much about it on a national scale–state wise, though, NY is one big @#%^-up, and has been for years. And the central NY gerry-mandering is the purtyest thing you ever did see, from a Republican perspective, so much so that I was shocked that we got Democratic representative in the Syracuse area, and a fairly progressive one at that.
I’ll start to worry when there is real reason to worry.
Trinity
@The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America: Thanks!
General Winfield Stuck
@jwb:
For the longest time before GWB, I was in the camp of ignore them because no ones listens to their crazy. But not so much anymore, especially in the youtube era. They are expert liars and narrative promoters out of repetition and sheer tenacity of message discipline. Plus they have the Chameleon like ability to believe their own lies. This can be persuasive and has been in their ability to get themselves addicted.
The cable news I watch are doing a pretty good job of pointing out the insanity of some of their claims. Not 100 percent of the time, but well enough. Specially tweety.
They are loud enough and organized enough to not be ignored IMHO. We should mercilessly mock them with prejudice, and just as relentlessly as they lie and shout.
WereBear
To me, the abject lawlessness of the Bush regime contributed to the hysteria.
After all, it’s been shown that Our Government did scoop up innocent people to torture and kill them.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, they will somewhat believe the same sick applications will be run on them.
I say somewhat because it’s a reply of the classic study of some UFO group in the Midwest who waited on a hilltop for the aliens to come and take them away. They carefully divested themselves of all metal to ensure that they would not mess up the alien’s plans, except:
They all had fillings, and none of them tried to replace or remove them.
Thus showing that, deep down, they knew they were deluding themselves.
Thus it is with the Nutters on display now.
General Winfield Stuck
elected — smacks forehead
Brick Oven Bill
I disagree Zenos. The limited government advocated for in the Federalist Papers and codified in the Constitution is elegant. It establishes the individual as the foundation of the system, with only as much power granted to authority as is necessary to hold things together.
This system of government requires an active and engaged Citizenry, and unleashes the power of individuals. These individuals then might come up with things like airplanes, rocket ships, and the Internet. It was proven to work for one hundred and fifty years, and has generated enough momentum and wealth to have kept the country going for another eighty years, even in the presence of female voters whose nature is to nurture, instead of govern.
The alternate government system of authoritarianism, either in a modern Neolithic setting like Africa or Central America, or in a 1930s Germany, Soviet Russia, or Middle Age kingdom, requires little input from the Citizen.
These Citizens can be much dumber than those of a functioning Constitutional Republic. You can even have them be stupid to the point where they think a certain leader will provide them with free gasoline, free health care, and free cigarettes for an extended period of time in exchange for their support. That’s pretty dumb.
slippytoad
@Brick Oven Bill: I’m waving goodbye to the last shredded vestiges of your credibility.
You are now in full-on “let’s put ’em in toxic gas showers and get rid of the bodies in brick ovens” mode.
I’m pleased to inform you that you cannot step back from that precipice. You’re done. From now on, all your posts have Seig Heil attached to them whether you intended to or not.
Goodbye, Brick Oven Bill’s credibility.
Corner Stone
@Zifnab:
Damn but that is pure gold! Gold I tells ya!
“An entity, either homeless or appearing so, that practices the stealthy fictional arts of Karatsu, Tae Kung, etc. Usually carry at least one eating utensil as a weapon. You can find at least one of these in Grand Central.”
Brick Oven Bill
I’m not the one advocating a strong state slippytoad. Obama is setting the stage for what you describe.
This is the history of man. Here’s your cigarette, free gasoline is next week.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Brick Oven Bill: Never go full retard, Bill.
Corner Stone
@Dork: They would absolutely have no idea. It would be kind of like that Onion skit where the pundits are watching real time approval ratings from viewers. They’d applaud and scream out chants with you, then they’d like furtively around to see what the others were doing. It could really go either way actually.
Cat Lady
Mocking is the most effective means – there’s something really really effective about making them into fools, instead of trying to rebut arguments. It just happened with the birthers – the kenyanbirthcertificate generator was the killer app for that nonsense. Mocking may not change the minds of the true believers, but it makes the media people pay attention – they won’t help catapult the propaganda if they’re in danger of being mocked as a credulous idiot too. See: Obbs, Loud.
Corner Stone
Damn it! Will whoever’s playing with the BoB Button please back the F off! This is not even close to 50% the style of the real spoof BoB. Whoever you are, you’re not even trying anymore.
Perry Como
HAHAhAHAAHAHAHAHAHA. AHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHA. BWAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA.
Demo Woman
Are the cable channels covering the lady speaking about her pre existing condition in NH?
Dork
@WereBear: Ah. So no metal = more mettle?
Perry Como
@Demo Woman: MSNBC didn’t.
Demo Woman
The first section of President Obama’s speech has to do with the economy. He is now talking about health insurance reform. He does not believe in government bureaucrats meddling but he also does not want insurance company bureaucrats meddling. Good applause.
good stuff and you can watch it online
cbear
Very informative leadup to the Obama health care town hall on MSNBC right now—
–car chase in LA: looks like the guy is/was running in a 1972 Dodge Colt. Good luck with that.
–illuminating discussion of the Jon & Kate + 8 situation and how it might impact the children. THE CHILDREN!
— Andrea Mitchell and Gov Rendell discussing Hillary’s “meltdown” over mis-translated Big Dog question. Fascinating.
Ah, here’s the town hall….
Demo Woman
@Perry Como: It was short and to the point. A former business owner can no longer get coverage because she has hepatitis C. She has done everything right and paid premiums for her employees but can no longer.
The audience is really receptive to President Obama, I guess Fox won’t cover this.
ellaesther
I may be hunted down by McCaughey or Palin (from an airplane, perhaps?) for saying this, but is anyone else reminded of that one episode of Next Gen where Troy’s mother fell in love with someone from a planet where they, in fact, practiced assisted suicide as a society-wide ritual act, “all to do what’s in society’s best interest, or your family’s best, and cut your life short”?
Man I loved Next Gen.
Sorry. Carry on.
Demo Woman
Head line for the news tonight.. Obama wants to block negative ads.
Is this an infringement on Free Speech?
kay
@Ash Can:
He’s never controlled any message, though. He lost control of the stimulus message, if you’ll recall, and the bank bailouts, and the auto bankruptcies, remember the screaming over the mortgage program? Does anyone even remember the mortgage program? It was famous.
All of that is in place. He lost the “message war” on all of those things and they’re all in place.
I’m not a three dimensional chess believer, I don’t know if this approach is deliberate, he may have screwed up health care “messaging” for all I know, but there’s a lot of screaming for two weeks, he sits back, and then he gets pretty much what he said he needed the first day.
Brick Oven Bill
In a country where the majority of people oppose this legislation, Obama gets a standing ovation from every one in his audience. This is, of course, because he incapable of facing criticism, and his audience is carefully screened.
This guy lives in a bubble. The question is; does he know he is lying to these people? My handicap:
Knows he is lying: 60%
Believes Rahm: 40%
Demo Woman
Obama is now saying that Grassley and Enzi are working in a bi-partisan manner. Yeah right, he hopes that it will done in a bi-partisan fashion but the important to get it done.
Demo Woman
@Brick Oven Bill: That was Bush, you forgot that he lost the election. Remember the old day when there were free zone areas two miles away from the President. Wow they were really good old days.
Balconesfault
@Brick Oven Bill:
They might even come up with many of these things – particularly rocket ships and the internet – without massive investments from the federal government.
Of course, they’ll end up coming up with them decades behind those nations which do invest a lot of money in publicly funded research, and never obtain patents for anything more sophisticated than a glow in the dark flashlight, and slip more and more into an economy based on extraction of mineral resources and unskilled manual labor. But that’s the price you pay for fealty to the agrarian ethos.
kay
Goof for him. Going after Medicare Advantage. Bravo. About time.
Demo Woman
@kay: I’m in love with him at this moment. I think your comment about the chess game is accurate.
Joe Lisboa
He’s cleaning up. This is great.
Perry Como
Yes, they are keeping the people with guns out.
Trinity
He is not perfect but thank the FSM that he is our President! The NH townhall is making my day.
Perry Como
Epic: http://obamaisliterallyhitler.tumblr.com/
kay
@Demo Woman:
Well, thanks, and I’m glad you are in love, but I don’t know if I buy the chess game thing. I think it probably has more to do with his personality than anything else. There are negotiators that jump out front and those that sit back. The advantage to sitting back is he knows the objections. He doesn’t guess. Did you anticipate that the strongest opposition to this would come from those who HAD a public option? I didn’t.
Demo Woman
@Perry Como:
According to TPM they are not keeping folks with guns out. They are being watched though. Good to know.
Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)
@Cat Lady:
Out of frustration after repeatedly debunking the ‘Obama’s death panels’ and ‘euthanasia’ memes on my local paper’s site, I finally resorted to being mocking and suggesting that people who still believe the tripe after examining all of the evidence needed to head to a local grocery and stock up on Reynolds Wrap Heavy Duty Hat Liner.
I suggested the heavy duty liner because the Obama Orbital Mind Control Lasers are strong enough to punch right through regular beanie shielding.
A few days later at work I was laughing about this and one of my co-workers became really angry and said that I didn’t know what I was talking about.
After recovering from the initial shock, I proceeded to demolish the idea and yet she still clung to it, literally sputtering ‘but there’s nothing in the bill that prohibits euthanasia’ and that the bill is bad because future administrations might try and kill off her parents.
At that point I ceased being polite and started mocking her even more ruthlessly than I did the idiots at the C&P website.
I’ve probably made an enemy for life, but I can only deal with so much idiocy at one time and she exceeded my load capacity.
Demo Woman
@kay: Early dementia is my guess. I love the medicare crowd with the signs saying “don’t let the government touch my insurance”
Legalize
A man at Obama’s townhall expressed his concern that the public option could lead to government run health care, effectively putting the insurance companies out of business. The man, a republican, is a Medicaid recipient. How can the president address this man without slapping him in the face?
Balconesfault
@Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman):
Precious. Has anyone gone back and checked Bush’s Medicare Drug bill to see if there was language against 1 in 3 drug recipients being given placebos in order to reduce program costs? I’ll bet that language isn’t there.
Nothing about prohibiting euthanasia, either…
gwangung
Far more likely to be Republican than Democrats; who passed Medicare and other senior initiatives in the first place?
Corner Stone
Ack! And Double Ack!
My nutter Congressman is providing the GOP response. TX CD 22. Fuck me.
kay
@Demo Woman:
Old people love Medicare. I’m a teeny bit sympathetic. It’s THEIRS, goddamnit!
Plus, they always think we’re trying to get rid of them. I think it says something about your own value system if “productivity” is how you assume others will value your worth. I actually do not value people on “productivity”, so I never think anyone else is going to knock me off once I can’t make any money.
I think they should ponder that :)
Balconesfault
@Corner Stone:
You could just make that more userfriendly by calling it “Delay-land, USA”.
Ash
By kicking him in the balls instead.
Demo Woman
Since I don’t have cable can someone let me know whether or not FOX TV is covering this.
Ash
@Demo Woman: CNN and MSNBC are both showing it live. Fox is in a commercial break…
kay
@kay:
Sarah Palin thinks other people look at her baby and say “not productive”. Now, where the hell did that come from? I don’t think anything like that.
It came from her. That’s her measure of worth. I don’t want her shifting it to me. It’s hers. Why does she think that?
Ash
@Demo Woman: Oh wait, now they’re back….apparently they were showing it before but not anymore. Now they have some blonde bobble head anchor lady and douchebag guy talking about approval for the plan being only 42%, according to Rassmussen, of course.
Par for the course.
DBrown
@WereBear: Perfect
Demo Woman
@Ash: If they showed it, how could they spin it later? It’s better for their ratings to just make shit up.
Joshua Norton
Mr. President, I’d like to read from my prepared statement.
“AAAAGAGGGGAGAGGAGG BLAALAALRG SOCIALISM FORRINER ARRGR NAZI DEATH PANALES BLAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!”
Punchy
While disagreeing with your choice of spelling it, Dave Mustaine somewhere just nodded in complete agreement.
Demo Woman
Good town hall meeting. He is now going through the audience which makes me uneasy.
Napoleon
“but there’s nothing in the bill that prohibits euthanasia”
I would have torn her apart if she had said that to me. I bet the bill says nothing about not counterfeiting Japanese Yen to pay for medical cost, drowning cute little puppies and forcing you to gay marry a duck.
Ash
@Corner Stone: I’m sorry, just looking at this putz is grating. His face is annoying.
cbear
Andrea Mitchell: Obama didn’t take tough questions. White House “claims” town hall questioners were not “plants”. etc, etc, etc.
My question: is she a stupid fuck, a lying fuck, or a stupid lying fuck?
burnspbesq
Hey, Mr. Cole, in the site redesign can we have an “ignore” button? I’d like to not have to read any more of BOB’s ignorant twaddle, ever again.
We can haz pleez? Kthxbai.
Indylib
@cbear: The media is just pissed off that their weren’t any ranting whackadoodles questioning Obama, imagine the ratings that would have generated. I have a sneaking suspicion that there were a good number of above mentioned whackadoodles in the crowd that decided not to make a spectacle of themselves in front of the Secret Service.
Tax Analyst
(Re: the following nutter remark)
‘but there’s nothing in the bill that prohibits euthanasia’
Napoleon said:
“I would have torn her apart if she had said that to me. I bet the bill says nothing about not counterfeiting Japanese Yen to pay for medical cost, drowning cute little puppies and forcing you to gay marry a duck.”
You forgot “the mandatory skull-fucking of cute kittens”
WereBear
I do believe President Obama hit all the important points and manfully refrained from interjecting “WTF!” at any time.
Dunno if I could do that. But that’s why he’s the President, and I’m, not.
What we are seeing is, deliberately or not, a 180 from the way the Clintons tried it. This time, they let us see the sausage get made, so there wouldn’t be any “But it was all done behind closed doors!” complaints. They let everyone “discuss” it, even though it led to crazy lies. And the town halls let them explain it over and over and over for the Dim.
Probably a better way, all told.
I see signs waving, with Acorns drawn on them. I am ready to support small government subsidies for these people to Get a Clue.
SGEW
@burnspbesq: Have you tried Cleek’s pie filter?
Fern
@burnspbesq:
Now that would be an attractive option.
Xenos
@burnspbesq: While the pie filter works fine (should you use Firefox), I like the idea of a site-based ignore feature that can make ignoring someone a public act. Back in the Usenet days when putting a troll on an ignore list a commenter would post a response such as “PLONK” to show they were being deprived of attention. That could be a good tradition to revive.
SGEW
@WereBear:
The closest he came was (when addressing the “Obama’s Enemy List” nonsense) he had to resort to “Now, come on guys . . .”
The classy way to say, “I mean, what the fuck?”
Joshua Norton
@cbear:
CNN just said that the people ‘were NOT hand-picked by the WH, by the way’….
Wow, CNN stopped sucking for a minute there.
Corner Stone
@Ash: Well, we briefly had Nick Lampson in there, right after Delay. Nick is a really good guy, focused on children’s education/protection and NASA but man did it grate to see him go to the Blue Dog extraodinaire just to try and get re-elected. He’s always been conservative, and that’s cool, I understand but sweet jeebus it grated. This is one of those cases where it just makes sense to have a real wingnut Rep elected, and not fiddle round with trying to pander to the insane.
Fuck you Rahm! Fuck you straight up your stupid ass!
HRA
Rosali: “What’s really scary is that NY Gov. David Paterson has low poll numbers and many NY Dems are concerned that it it could lead to repugs gaining seats.”
The consensus from many who have watched Paterson is we would rather have had Spitzer stay in office and I heartily agree. The only other fear we have is having McCaughey run for office. Personally I don’t care about party affiliation if the person who wins is capable. Paterson is not capable.
I watched President Obama’s NH townhall. In fact I learned more about healthcare reform from him than those stupid idiots all over the web and those on cable. It was a very good meeting.
A guy with a gun strapped to his leg was outside being watched by many law officers on the sly and that included the news reporter from MSNBC.
YellowJournalism
My favorite part was the guy who stood up and told Obama that he had turned himself in on the White House site. For a second, I thought BOB had gone to the NH town hall meeting.
Obama handled the situation well. A lot better than I would have. (“Did you also turn yourself in for being a massive idiot?”) I don’t understand how people can go to the White House page, read it, and think that it’s some kind of McCarthyesque forum for turning your neighbor in. I think they need to do a good debunking page like they did when Obama was running for president, complete with actual links to parts of the bill that are being lied about.
Corner Stone
@Balconesfault: Funny that. Even though it’s clearly still Bugman-fuck insane round here (some say +15R, some say +22R), that little weasel really fucked over all his constituents. Quelle surprise, right? If he had dropped in time the R’s could’ve nominated a pet rock and got it elected that cycle. By waiting, and waiting, Delay let Lampson take the seat. And even though he subsequently lost to nutter Olson, it still made my balls tingle to no end to have contributed campaign cash, time and effort to Nick when he won Tom’s old seat.
YellowJournalism
@SGEW: I thought he was going to do a spit-take since he was drinking as the guy started talking.
handy
@Perry Como:
Hey don’t laugh too hard, Perry. After all, as BOB will tell you, one individual did create the internet, Al Gore.
HRA
Huh? How do we know it wasn’t BOB?
eric k
Remember how a few years ago The Patriots DBs beat the crap out of the Colts WRs on every play during the AFC title game? They basically figured out that if they did it on every play the refs couldn’t call pass interference every time. It wa so bad the league changed the rules the next season and now we have the no contact at all rules.
That is how the Right is operating, they figured out that you can lie about everything all the time and the media never calls you on it. They are so paranoid about being called liberal biased that they couch everything in “some say, while others say” terms. No one will call a lie a flat out lie.
Corner Stone
@eric k: Patriot scum.
Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)
@Corner Stone:
As a second string Colts fan*, I agree. :)
*My primary loyalty has been to the Steelers since 1974, when as a young ‘un of 7 years of age, I learned to love the Stillers and hate the Dolphins. :)
That said, you’ll earn serious football geek points if you can tell my why, without looking it up, that it would have been odd for a kid in Evansville, Indiana to not have been a diehard ‘Phins fan.