Boomer pundits, like Ruth Marcus and Maureen Dowd, seem inclined to think that the town hall tea-ruptions bode ill for Obama. Younger pundits, like Ambinder (who is actually on target for once), seem to think differently:
President Obama is on his way to Portsmouth, New Hampshire at this hour for a town hall meeting on health care. At this same hour last week, several of the President’s top political advisers were meeting in a White House conference room to discuss the appearance, over the first weekend in August, of a coordinated effort to scare Democratic lawmakers who planned to attend town hall meetings into a state of panic. A week later, and the Atlantic’s tricorder readings are picking up much calmer electromagnetic energy from the White House. Getting Democrats to attend the town hall meetings was really an intermediate goal. But Democrats are beginning to notice that opponents of health care reform have discredited themselves.
For a lot of older political reporters, it will always be 1970, the hard-hat riots will always be raging, and Nixonian class and race resentment will always benefit Republicans. But it’s not 1970 anymore. McCain lost in 2008 primarily because of weakness with non-white voters, younger voters, voters with post-graduate degrees, and voters whose incomes are in the top 5%. Obama won two-thirds of the Latino vote, two-thirds of the 18-29 vote (a staggering figure — Obama’s 66% among 18-29 is the highest ever recorded by a president in a single age group since this statistic has been kept), 58% among voters with post-graduate degrees, and 52% among voters in the top 5% in terms of income. This last percentage is lower than the 53% he won among the general population but is remarkably high for a Democrat by historial standards — Jimmy Carter won only 26% of this vote in 1980; note that Republicans’ relative weakness in this group probably partly accounts for their newfound fundraising woes.
Did you see a lot of town hall screamers who are under 30? Any who aren’t white? Any who look like they have post-graduate degrees? Any who make over 200K a year (even Rick Santelli hasn’t been talking about death panels)?
Of course not. The teabaggers are old, white, uneducated, and not particularly well-off. In short, they’re part of a demographic where Republicans are already maxed out. The presence of unions and the fact that Republican policies are not economically advantageous to lower and middle-income voters put a ceiling on how much of this demographic Republicans will ever capture. And they’re pretty close to that ceiling right now.
Tom Edsall has more about the futility of going totally white and old here. Kos notes that Republican approval among Latinos has cratered completely. He blames Sotomayor opposition, but I’ve got to think that birtherism has something to do with it. It has to be alienating to see that, even if you’re born in this country and get to be president, the right will still insist that you are an illegal alien.
SpotWeld
The teabaggers are old, white, uneducated, and not particularly well-off.
There is some sort of irony at work when you compare that deomgraphic with that of the largest segment of Medicare recipients.
joes527
That dude who was tripped in a scuffle and showed up the next day in a wheelchair had a pretty good tan going.
Dreggas
Graeme Frost 2 – Electric bugaloo: Here
Bernie
It never ceases to amaze me that the “old, white, uneducated, and not particularly well-off” are the ones who most benefit from “socialist” government programs (social security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA) yet they are the most likely to support a political party that wants to either abolish or privatize those programs they love so much. I don’t know if it is because they are just jaw-droppingly ignorant, bigoted toward anyone different from them, sense of white entitlement, or a some combination of all three.
SGEW
I think you meant to say “real Americans.”
cervantes
Not 100% old — there are some young white men among them. But point taken.
lotus
At this point I’m a lot less worried about the legislation than I am about whether everybody who’s supposed to be in the chamber at next year’s State of the Union will safely get there.
Know what I mean, Vern?
erlking
My dad is as white as they come, 81, never finished high school and if he ever made more than 50K in a year, I’d be very surprised.–and he thinks the teabaggers are “fucking crazy.” (His characterization.) Of course, he has socialized medicine courtesy of the VA, so he would say that.
[marie]
Did yall see this..?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7zfawMm-So
General Winfield Stuck
As a Boomer of sorts, I agree with you and Armbinder. It isn’t 1970 anymore and moderates and independents are wiser from suffering 15 years of GOP congress control and the past eight of Bushism. No going back to the old race baiting, God, Guns and Gays, at least for the foreseeable future.
Economic destitution wrought by the goopers still trumps faux patriotism wedge plays and hate mongering has permanently turned off NE fiscal conservatives. And young people are having none of the old bullshit. Throw in thoroughly alienated Hispanics from the RW Xenophobes and the gettable vote contracts even more.
The only viable card in the winger deck is spending/deficit concerns that are at least legitimate. But the racial fears, anxiety, and outright hatred are mussing up any message on spending trepidations of the center. Welcome to the GOP entrenched southern base and the blood curdling Rebel Yell serving as political debate for hope and prosperity. You bought it wingnuts, now you own it.
JK
CNBC Asks Teabaggers to Provide a Riot
http://gawker.com/5336010/cnbc-asks-teabaggers-to-provide-a-riot
CNBC also asked for more cowbell.
mcc
Any who arenât white?
There was that one guy.
Incidentally, I wish the left blogosphere could decide whether the tea partiers are wearing Brooks Brothers or are economically despondent or what. People seem to be switching back and forth on this.
DougJ
My dad is as white as they come, 81, never finished high school and if he ever made more than 50K in a year, Iâd be very surprised.âand he thinks the teabaggers are âfucking crazy.â
This is why I don’t think that Republicans can ever dominate the older white demo. There’s too many sane people like your father who think the party is crazy.
Comrade Darkness
@mcc: You are conflating discussions of participant class with discussions of tactics.
Sentient Puddle
Small problem I got with this critique. While they’re certainly no longer the dominant voice in the movement, the glibertarian crowd are teabaggers too. Obviously they’re not the ones going to town hall meetings, but they’re pretty damn opposed to health care reform too, and unlike the screamers, they do have the ability to express their views while sounding smart (even if they aren’t really smart). That and the fact that while the youth may not be gravitating towards the screamers, a non-trivial amount are going glibertarian.
So for my money, I’m still concerned about health care reform.
HumboldtBlue
How about just a bunch of willfully ignorant assholes. That pretty much describes what’s left of the Republican base.
freelancer
@erlking:
You forget, your dad may share some general qualities of the tea-bagging demo, but if he’s a Vet, that’s a whole ‘nother story. Most of these idiots like to fantasize they were in the military, but never sacked up and joined. That’s where you get a lot of the militia/minuteman verbiage from.
Important distinction.
Damned Good Post DougJ, Also.
The Saff
When you actually hear what these folks are asking and saying at these town halls, it’s clear they don’t know what they’re talking about. They spew the talking points that they hear on Rush or Fox Gnus but they wouldn’t know what’s in one of the health care bills if something jumped out and bit them on the arse.
KO and Jonathan Alter took three examples of rightwinger hysteria last week and refuted each point.
EnderWiggin
DougJ,
Not one thing you are pointing out here hasn’t been said a hundred times before. No original idea.
And this is easily one of the best blog posts I have seen since this mess started. Perfect summary of the crux of the issue with the Republican Party and why we can’t have a civil conversation about anything in this country.
I just forwarded it all of my friends that still call themselves Republicans. All three of them :)
The Moar You Know
The protestors have shot themselves in the foot, or to be more accurate, the face. It’s obvious to everyone who is not mainlining the Kool-Aid that these people are assholes, and I suspect that their ranting and raving is not going to get them what they want.
Of course, such a loss will ratchet them up yet another level, and I would say that anyone that thinks that these people won’t resort to violence is a deluded fool, but that’s part of dealing with the mess that these spoiled children have left behind since 1980. The alternative, as with spoiled children everywhere, is to give them everything they ask for immediately, and tell them that they are the bestest and smartest people ever.
This is not going to happen.
Mark S.
My brilliant comment is gone. You bastards! I’ll try again:
Wow, I knew GOP numbers with Latinos were low, but 3%? I harp on this a lot, but if the GOP doesn’t at least have respectable numbers with Latinos, the party will be dead in a decade.
JK
OT
Evan Bayh, Blue Dog Senators Becoming More Conservative
h/t http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/08/shifts-in-voting-patterns-in-senate.html
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
So what do people with post-graduate degrees look like? The Unabomer had post-graduate degree. So does noted evolution denialist William Dembski. What’s your point?
NickM
I said at the end of a thread below.
The teabaggers: more moob than mob.
MattF
My brother-in-law, who is in his late 60’s and voted for Obama, was certain that Obama would lose– because of that ‘hard-hat’ vote. But the 70’s coalition that Nixon created is simply outnumbered.
freelancer
@Mark S.:
Frito Pendejo’s Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather predicts at least 500 years:
http://cheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=4937818
Bill H
I’m 66, white, have silver hair (my wife’s description, not mine) and a white beard. I am becoming rather nervous about going out in public, as I live in Susan Davis’ district. In case you don’t know her, she’s a Democrat, votes 175% Delocrat/liberal, and gets reelected with 85% of the vote. I vote for her every time and have an Obama sticker on my car, but, with my appearance, I may need to start wearing Obama tee shirts all the time.
NickM
A friend of mine, Vietnam vet, long-time union official, told me in early 2008 that if Obama rather than Hillary was the nominee, it was over for the Dems in the general. He thought it would put Ohio and Indiana out of reach. I argued somewhat but who was sure what was going to happen? Now we know – he was applying an old demographic model. The media still is – hell the media IS the old demographic model.
steve s
The production of new young republicans has collapsed. People in their teens/early twenties are now appx 4x more likely to be Dem or Independent than GOP.
http://www.openleft.com/diary/13242/the-future-of-the-electorate-age-and-party-id
DougJ
I vote for her every time and have an Obama sticker on my car, but, with my appearance,
Nah, the white beard should mark you as a DFH.
Sarcastro
Byebye Lardass!
BC
Then there’s ol’ Johnny Isakson of Georgia, sounding pretty sane in an interview with Ezra Klein and then going townhally on us. This is a Republican mantra now – all this screaming shit that makes no sense to anyone (not even themselves). This will be the final nail in their coffin – who can trust such delusional SOBs with the reins of power again. Today it’s health insurance reform, tomorrow it’s any other piece of legislation that Obama is pushing. Won’t make any difference what the legislation is, the Republians will oppose it and have their little screaming fit about it, and the rest of the country will shudder and avert their eyes, as if they see something obscene. Way to go, GOP, solidifying your 20-25% base and losing the other 75%.
bob h
“The teabaggers are old, white, uneducated, and not particularly well-off. In short, theyâre part of a demographic where Republicans are already maxed out.”
A demographic which, at the end of the day, does not cut much ice in this country anymore. So why should we let them destroy our President?
beltane
In short, the teabaggers’ screamfests are not where the future is to be found. They are gatherings of social outcasts, and they are all the Republican party has left. Any party that attracts these folks, is not going to attract anyone else.
This is one of the reasons I supported Obama over Clinton in the primary. History has made boomer Democrats afraid of Republicans and ashamed of their own beliefs. We who are younger see the Republican base as objects of ridicule.
Bubblegum Tate
@freelancer:
Jebus, that picture is great.
Just Some Fuckhead
Good post.
General Winfield Stuck
@BC:
Isakson is a lying stack of shit. I’m listening to Claire MCcaskill on Hardball right now explaining how it has been a major cause of his to have Medicare pay for end of life counseling, and end of life issues in general.
lamh31
Man With Gun Arrested At Obama Event Yesterday
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@lamh31:
Oh, I see: You can carry a gun into a presidential event as long as it’s licensed, like that other gomer in New Hampshire. Anybody ever try this thory out with Bush?
mcc
One assumes they could be identified by their signs, which would feature correct spelling and grammar.
Unless their degrees are in engineering I guess.
Llelldorin
@mcc:
Actually, the term “Brooks Brothers Riot” is a case of the left blogosphere falling into the right blogosphere’s usual bad habit of lapsing into a private language that’s incomprehensible to everyone else.
The original “Brooks Brothers Riot” was in the aftermath of the 2000 election. A group of suspiciously well-dressed people threw an angry protest outside the Miami-Dade election canvassing board conducting that county’s recount. The protest was reported as a genuine local protest, but it was later uncovered that a large number of them were Republican staffers.
Thus, when people call the protests at the health care town hall meetings “Brooks Brothers Riots”, they’re arguing that the protests are not genuine outbursts by upset citizens but rather Republicans disrupting the meetings as a tactic.
Llelldorin
@mcc:
Actually, the term “Brooks Brothers Riot” is a case of the left blogosphere falling into the right blogosphere’s usual bad habit of lapsing into a private language that’s incomprehensible to everyone else.
The original “Brooks Brothers Riot” was in the aftermath of the 2000 election. A group of suspiciously well-dressed people threw an angry protest outside the Miami-Dade election canvassing board conducting that county’s recount. The protest was reported as a genuine local protest, but it was later uncovered that a large number of them were Republican staffers.
Thus, when people call the protests at the health care town hall meetings “Brooks Brothers Riots”, they’re arguing that the protests are not genuine outbursts by upset citizens but rather Republicans disrupting the meetings as a tactic.
freelancer
@Bubblegum Tate:
It was The Dish’s Face of the Day, yesterday.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/08/fa.html
I just made it a little more recognizable for what it truly was.
Political Pragmatist
Ha! I blogged last week that few of the protesters were young, and I’ve been writing all along that the ones who have been screwed the most by the conservative cabal are those who form the base.
As Carlin stole from me, “Think of how dumb the average person is and realize half of all people are dumber than that.”
That’s how the cabal has managed to hold power for thirty years, that and they are better at being evil.
http://blogs.reviewjournal.com/author/waynelively/
gex
@General Winfield Stuck:
And I’d stick a big asterisk on that platform issue as well. From the Medicare prescription plan written so there can be no price negotiations, to permanent land wars in Asia, to having to bail out Wall Street due to fiscal conservative policies, it is very hard to take spending/deficit concerns seriously from the party of “Reagan showed that deficits don’t matter”. Especially if you contrast that with Al Gore (let’s use the surplus to pay down the deficit) and Bill Clinton (let’s run budget surplusses).
Republicans can only run as fiscal conservatives if people forget their actual record.
Calouste
A lot of damage has been done by Boomers extending their college day quarrels for another four decades. One of the great things about the election of Obama was that he isn’t a Boomer so we didn’t have to hear anything more about the Woodstock/Vietnam era like we would have with either Clinton or McCain.
Comrade Darkness
@Llelldorin: the key tactic they used was chanting so much noise it drove the process to a halt. Sound familiar?
Indylib
@Bill H: I would think that would depend on which part of good ol’ San Diego you are in at any given time. I lived in Davis’s district in PB, but right across the street the gerrymandering had created the wingnut haven represented by Bilbray.
I miss her as my Rep., now I’m stuck with Paul Ryan.
Nellcote
Just curious, but if I’ve been a DFH all my life can I get a pass on the Boomer Bashing?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/05/02/notes050207.DTL&type=printable
jcricket
You forgot to mention little gov’t functions like libraries, roads, police and fire (90% of fire dept calls are emergency aid, not fires). Hmm, also things like water, sewer, garbage pickup, etc.
The magical free market would let all these people wallow in their own filth living/dying in shantytowns, and yet here they are bitching and moaning about their free will being trampled by the mean old government.
Honestly, I blame the Democrats for this situation as much as anyone else (over the long-term). Republicans are at fault for lying about everything and fanning the flames of government hatred. Democrats are at fault for failing to articulate the positive case for government and taxation (or at least offer an affirmative defense). We will never win if we cede the high ground before the battle even starts.
Chad N Freude
“Itâs obvious to everyone but members of Congress who is not mainlining the Kool-Aid that these people are assholes”
Fixed.
I’ve been out of this loop for some time. What happened to the buttons and the preview?
PanAmerican
There is a misconception that elderly still equates with the “greatest generation”. In fact they’ve mostly met their maker.
As I pointed out the other day the current over 65 set is the relatively small cohort of Depression and WWII babies.
Which means they represent a relatively small political force, no matter how many “old voters matter” stories Politico posts.
RJ
There was a strange (to me at the time) bit in Chinamen by
Maxime Hong Kingston worrying that Chinese people having been sent away once might be sent away again if the Supreme Court suddenly decided that they are not legitimate citizens.
At the time I thought that was an incredible possibility.
Dr. Loveless
@jcricket:
It never ceases to amaze me that the âold, white, uneducated, and not particularly well-offâ are the ones who most benefit from âsocialistâ government programs (social security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA)
You forgot to mention little govât functions like libraries, roads, police and fire (90% of fire dept calls are emergency aid, not fires). Hmm, also things like water, sewer, garbage pickup, etc.
Seriously, if you listen to these folks long enough, they end up sounding like the “What have the Romans ever done for us?” scene in Life of Brian,
Anne Laurie
Throw in young white men with inadequate social skills (the kind who think it’s politically astute to show up at a Presidential event with a loaded gun) and you’ve got the Spammers’ Wet Dream target market.
Max Peck
If it hasn’t been said already…..
They’re simply scaring the only group that votes reliably, the elderly.
nellodee
thank you for the shot of sanity. that’s just what i needed.
Bender
But Democrats are beginning to notice that opponents of health care reform have discredited themselves.
As usual, those wacky Democrats are living in a world of make-believe…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-12-poll-12_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
Money Quote:
Spin away, delusion-oids!
Chad N Freude
Chad N Freude
Well, that went well.
“Among key findings:
⢠A 57% majority of those surveyed, including 6 in 10 independents, say a major factor behind the protests are concerns that average citizens had well before the meetings took place; 48% say efforts by activists to create organized opposition to the health care bills are a major factor.
⢠There’s some tolerance for noisy disputes at town hall meetings. By 51%-41%, those surveyed say individuals making “angry attacks” on a health care bill reflected “democracy in action” rather than “abuse of democracy.” However, by 59%-33% they say “shouting down supporters” of a health care bill was an abuse of democracy.”
Read the whole thing, Bender. There’s a bit of nuance there.
Chad N Freude
John, is there a manual somewhere on the correct use of these XHTML tags? I suppose I’ll have to go to a dead thread to experiment.
I want my buttons back.
chopper
@Bender:
wow, two-to-one think what the teabaggers are doing is an abuse of democracy. score one for bender!
Evolved Deep Southerner
Good post, DougJ. Got right to the nuts of it. I still don’t look forward to the ugly few years we still have ahead of us, though.
chopper
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
between global warming, depleting oil stocks, fighting over dwindling water supplies and the thrashing of a dying GOP’s stinking corpse i fear for our future.
of course, one of those things is still gonna be fun to watch.
Bill D.
Actually, Obama *is* a boomer, as he was born in 1961 and the Baby Boom extended from 1946 through 1964. What he is not is an early Boomer, the ones who were so radically divided in the 1960s. Obama is a late Bloomer, which while very numerous* were only children during the 1960s. We came of age in the 1970s and early 80s in a very different social and political environment from the early Boomers.
This shows the folly of assuming that a demographic generation must also be a cultural generation. Late Boomers, also known as Generation Jones, tend more towards being practical idealists. We’re not as interested in conflict.
*The peak of the Baby Boom was in 1957, only four years before Obama was born.
Steeplejack
@Chad N Freude:
Iâve been out of this loop for some time. What happened to the buttons and the preview?
Er, um . . .
Bender
Riiiiight, see the little problem with your “logic” is: People obviously believe the “shouting down” is largely a concoction of the media and the Democrats (redundant).
So while they believe that “shouting down” is bad, they don’t believe that’s what most of the protesters are doing, because it isn’t.
It’s so obvious. Why is it so hard for you… oh, right, this is BJ-land.
Bender
Bottom line, the protesters are winning independents by 2-to-1.
But keep calling them by homosexual slurs. It shows that you are adults, not homophobic, and it’s working!
Bender
Spin away, delusion-oids!
Come on, keep it coming! Keep whistling in the dark, quoting idiots from The Atlantic (“America’s foremost Trig Truther and Gay Rumour Magazine!”) telling me how you’re winning the health care argument as the poll numbers go through the floor.
It’s really some top-class dementia on display…
General Winfield Stuck
LOL Bender, that’s some pretty solid wingnut logic. Or bad spoof. It’s so hard to tell these days. But you wank on.
Ash Can
::yawn::
Geez, Bender, are you still at it? Go to bed, already.
FlipYrWhig
This is more USA Today’s problem than Bender’s, but I don’t know if a survey finding that independents answered
35% more sympathetic
16% less sympathetic
and (if I’m deducing correctly)
_49% no change_
should really be characterized as “2-1.”
HyperIon
DougJ wrote: Any who look like they have post-graduate degrees?
This is complete and utter bullshit.
Get a grip.
@EnderWiggin: Not one thing you are pointing out here hasnât been said a hundred times before. No original idea.
And yet you seem to consider that a feature, not a bug.
Scott
In other related news, Sen. Specter has turned an 11-point advantage in June into a 9-point deficit in August.
Make of that what you will. Denial, they say, is not just a river in Egypt.