Lawrence O’Donnell:
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Please, please, please, keep calling these people liars. They are simply incapable of being confronted with being called a liar, because they are so used to folks like Candy Crowley running cover for them. Check out this outrageous clip from yesterday morning (I never found video of it, so the transcript will have to do):
SANCHEZ: I cannot believe what I just heard in your report. I was — my jaw dropped when I heard it. So let me just ask you a very direct question. I wrote it down here as I heard it.
When he says, “We should not have a government program that pulls the plug on grandma,” is he implying that there is now a proposal in Congress to have a government program to pull the plug on grandma?
CROWLEY: Certainly that’s how critics of that particular remark took it. And it certainly sounds that way. I will tell you that the senator was asked about it afterwards and he said, listen, what I’m saying is I understand that there is fear when people read this that that might happen, but that he personally didn’t necessarily translate that provision, as you know, of AARP and the AMA, American Medical Association, all support this particular passage, which is in one of four bills that are up there.
So Senator Grassley said that he doesn’t personally think you could translate it that way. But he understands why people look at it and come to that conclusion.
SANCHEZ: Isn’t it incumbent among people like Senator Grassley who are the leaders of this government and of this country to set the record straight and be telling people the truth like the truth as we know it here at CNN, that there is absolutely no proposal out there for death panels or for proposals that would actually plan to decide when people die?
CROWLEY: Yes. And here’s what I would tell you. That first of all, critics of those — and this didn’t come from Senator Grassley, but critics of that particular provision say that in the end, certainly as people get older, that that sort of counseling could be seen by those patients as coercive.
Having said that, I will bet you almost anything that if this question comes up in the next 16 town hall meetings that Senator Grassley has here, you will hear a different take on this, a more clarified version of what he told reporters than what he said on the stump.
Chuck Grassley was lying. Period. Rick Sanchez knew he was lying, and pointed out clearly that he was lying. And even then, Candy Crowley’s gut instinct was to defend, to do the he-said she-said faux even-handedness, when a reporter is just supposed to present the facts- not both sets of spin on a straight-forward issue. She had to be dragged across the line to admit that “Yes,” Chuck Grassley was lying. Candy Crowley was given a test, a no-brainer of a test, and she failed. Miserably.
Media Whores Online, RIP.
MikeJ
I miss the horse.
jenniebee
I was watching that guy squirm tonight, wishing that MSNBC was running a chess clock on each side of the screen. I only watch Hardball when O’Donnell is guest hosting now. Brilliant!
cleek
golly, why don’t i watch more cable news… could it be that i get my fill of dipshits and liars on the internet ?
why yes, i believe that’s it exactly.
WyldPirate
Lawernce O’Donnell deserves a show. Just watch him eviscerate some sack 0f shit Rethug Congressman from Texas.
He’s light years better than Tweety is now.
Darius
Yeah, Rick Sanchez is one of the few guys worth watching on CNN. (Fareed Zakaria is another.)
joe from Lowell
She had to be dragged across the line to admit that “Yes,” Chuck Grassley was lying.
…and then immediately told us it was ok, because he’d do better next time.
eric
i for one welcome our Ant Overlords …. and wish they would hurry up already.
he said “she is my hero!”
eric
donovong
Jesus fucking christ, I can’t keep up with the sudden blizzard of posts! Somebody’s been sandbagging.
JK
Absolutely yes give Lawrence O’Donnell his own show. In addition, Sanchez should replace the smarmy Campbell Brown.
Candy Crowley is a coward. She could be standing alongside 2 people looking out of a window observing a rainstorm – one person claims it’s raining and the other person claims it’s not raining. Candy would simply report one person says it’s raining while the other person says it’s not raining. She is a poster child for he said she said journalism.
cleek
holy shit, even the Ass Press is starting to catch on :
——- blockquote
Until last week, Republican Sen. Johnny Isakson was among the most enthusiastic backers of end-of-life counseling in government health care programs like Medicare.
That was before conservatives called it a step toward euthanasia and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin likened the idea to a bureaucratic “death panel” that would decide whether sick people get to live. And even though those claims have been widely discredited, the issue remains a political weapon in the increasingly bitter health care debate.
Now, Isakson and other Republicans who eagerly backed the idea are distancing themselves from it or lying low in the face of a backlash from the right.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here
“Until last week this was basically a nonpartisan issue,” said John Rother, executive vice president for policy at AARP, the seniors lobbying group. “People across the political spectrum recognize that far too often people’s wishes aren’t respected at the end of life and there is a lot of unnecessary suffering.”
——- /blockquote
Just Some Fuckhead
I could get used to Hardball with Lawrence O’Donnell. Wow. Whatever the hell Tweety is doin, it ain’t hardball.
oh really
…It’s not about TARP; it’s not about left and right…
Nope, it’s about really, really stupid, ignorant people being manipulated by thoroughly dishonest Wingers. It’s about the death of sanity in this country. It’s about Katy’s fifteen minutes of fame and why the entire country would be better off if she just went back to sleep.
eric
I am not sure who would cry harder if he came back: jesus or Jefferson.
eric
Shabbazz
I dunno — Lawrence was kind of a douchebag in that interview. It’s one thing to be forceful with your guest, but quite another to be openly hostile. I tend to agree with the ridicule of “ZOMGSOC1@LISM!”, but the delivery leaves a bit to be desired.
Mike in NC
That shitbird probably imagines himself to be the next Newt Gingrich and is auditioning to be Speaker by 2012.
General Winfield Stuck
Lawrence missed a big softball though when the guy was saying his father said SS was necessary back in the 30’s because people were dying, and why he would have voted for SS, unlike healthcare reform today.
John Cole
@Shabbazz: Bullshit. What we need right now is outright hostility to lies and bullshit.
Spare me the vapors.
Brick Oven Bill
You guys are crazy if you think that society can keep paying $400,000 for end-of-life treatment out of the public till, under this, or any other system. Health care will be rationed for the elderly shortly.
Obama gets credit for proposing rationing, but loses credit for chickening out and removing the applicable sections of the bill under criticism. Barry’s college friends did him no favors by the coddling. He looks weak under pressure.
This is why we should encourage smoking. Smoking can be fun, and it reduces life-cycle costs to society.
Xenos
The Horse! God I miss it.
That was when I realized something fundamentally new could be happening with the blogging thing, and when I became addicted to following blogs and occasionally making inane comments on them.
I would love to find out, conclusively, who was behind mediawhoresonline.com. Other than the crazy guy from Bartcop, I mean.
MBSS
why did L.O.D. freak out yesterday about h. clinton saying the 2000 election was bullshit, and was not the best example of democracy in action? he seemed to get worked up about it.
joe from Lowell
Obama gets credit for proposing rationing, but loses credit for chickening out and removing the applicable sections of the bill under criticism.
You mean the part that Max Baucus removed from the bill? That Obama continues to support and defend publicly? That has nothing to do with rationing?
freelancer
Excuse me, Congressman.
May I borrow a cup of Smug?
eric
@Xenos: It took a lot to knock the Horse from its pedestal, but during the latter portion of last year through the election, I never hit the refresh button more than I did over at Nate’s place (538). After that, I gotta say I refresh here and Benen’s most during the day.
eric
JK
@Shabbazz:
More power to Lawrence O’Donnell.
It’s generally not a good idea to bring a penknife to a gunfight.
CynDee
It’s 8 p.m. and we have no animal pictures.
General Winfield Stuck
@CynDee:
Here’s one. A newby for sweet Libby.
smiley
Just the other day I was wondering what was the first blog I started reading. I think it was Alterman via MSNBC. I stopped reading that sanctimonious, self-satisfied, snob after about two months. However, he did turn me on to the Horse – and, actually, led me to every other blog I read now. So for that, Eric, you asshole, I thank you.
General Winfield Stuck
Let’s try that again.
JenJen
How I miss the old Media Horse.
Lawrence O’D is so kick-ass. He’s been on so lately, at all times of the day, that I figure they have to be testing him for his own show. Same thing that happened to Ed Schultz before MSNBC gave him “The Ed Show.”
That was a jaw-dropping segment. Loved how the Congressman started sputtering, “But…but… MSNBC is ugly and smells funny and nobody likes you!!”
HumboldtBlue
At least we don’t have that damn photo of the dog with a fork stuck in its head. Now we have old horses saved by young girl.
Max
There is a Twitter group formed for Larry… follow and RT @draftodonnell.
oh really
O’Donnell really exaggerates the nature of Medicare. His claim that it is a totally socialistic program is nonsense. That would leave nothing to left of Medicare. Doctors do not work for the government and hospitals and clinics are not government owned and operated. If that were the situation, then O’Donnell could speak accurately of Medicare being socialism.
I agree emphatically that all of politicians who lie habitually to the American people should be confronted directly with their lies. They should be called liars. However, O’Donnell is so overbearing in this exchange that I’m afraid he is likely to alienate many of the people who most need to hear what he has to say.
jenniebee
See, this is why I think there may be something to the Rethug argument that if we give ourselves health insurance through the government, we may be looking at the possibility of death panels down the road. @Brick Oven Bill tips his hand, we have it to fear because the very people who are warning us about it think it’s absolutely reasonable and rational that there should be “death panels” pulling the plug on the elderly if it saves a few bucks.
The only way to get health care and have it run decently and well is to never let wingnuts get their hands on the keys of power again. Of course, the same can be said for every other function of government up to and including defense…
angulimala
Look, you dummy. When you say that you’re number one concern is your fear that people are trying to turn this country into the USSR, then you are MAKING it about “Left” and “Right”.
Don’t say this isn’t about “Left” and “Right” and then go on a rant about how “Teh Left” is ruining this country”.
Jody
I was all set to come in and talk about how much I enjoyed watching that delicious hunk of red meat, and then you had to remind me how much the Media Horse ruled my world.
I miss the Horse too.
ericvsthem
That clip is full of win.
Fiscal conservatives! Entitlement reforms! Pretty ponies!
tammanycall
@oh really:
“It’s about Katy’s fifteen minutes of fame and why the entire country would be better off if she just went back to sleep.”
I seem to recall that in her post-tirade interview with Sean Hannity, she admitted that she couldn’t remember Specter’s answer to her question because she wasn’t even listening.
Maude
@MBSS:
From what I read, the implication was that Jeb Bush helped steal the election. Also, it’s not cool to compare US elections to despotic elections in other countries.
I didn’t read what HRC said about 2000.
I read her response to the student. Not good.
I think she’s drinking in the evenings and her self control slips once in a while.
MBSS
here’s o’donnell basically saying that hillary was full of shit when she was talking about the 2000 election in africa.
o’donnell is basically reiterating was scarborough said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc_tv-hardball_with_chris_matthews#32409262
Just Some Fuckhead
@oh really:
I think O’Donnell is simply pointing out that what Republicans call socialism is something they’d otherwise support and (as dumbass from Texas admitted) vote for.
I don’t think it was forum designed to explore the many facets of social policy.
jenniebee
I should add – that’s why they don’t think there’s anything wrong with the privately run death panels. They only object when they aren’t being run for a profit.
MBSS
i dunno maude.
o’ donnell is right of politico on this one. scary thought.
i have no problem with what hillary said. i see a conflict of interest there as well. maybe dynasties aren’t that great of an idea outside of historical china.
MBSS
here’s all the commas i’ve missed today:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
o.k., that’s better.
bvac
I remember O’Donnell screaming “Liar!” at John O’Neil, the swiftboat guy and John Kerry nemesis, while sitting about 6 inches from him. It was kinda lulz, but I’ve also seen him do the same thing to other people and it came off as clueless and idiotic. So, whatever.
General Winfield Stuck
Oh, I don’t know if it was an exaggeration. We have all been taught from an early age to equate socialism with communism. And to extend socialistic to a governing system.
It is classically socialistic IMO. SS and Medicare. It is not a governing system that wingnuts try to scare people with. Anything the government does collectively with collectively collected taxes could be termed socialistic.
Of course your point is taken that most people don’t think it through to that degree, and in the middle of a legislative brawl it might not be the best time for teachable moments. I still enjoyed it however.
JenJen
By the way, if anyone ever feels like taking a drive down Memory Lane, here is where most of the Horse’s archive can be found:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/
No idea why most of 2003 (the important parts!) are missing.
John Cole
Look- Florida 2000 was not the same as the violence in recent African elections. Period.
That having been said, LOD does seem to hate the Clintons- he trashed Bill tonight on DADT and DOMA from his response at Netroots Nation, which, I will note, Jim Newell is referring to as AIPAC FOR LIBTARDS.
Regardless, I’ll take LOD over Matthews.
MBSS
oh, john cole, don’t get worked up. i really like LOD too. he has a great style of debate, and him trashing pat buchanan is worth it’s weight in gold.
but i had to call him out on that, or i wouldn’t feel good about myself.
let’s take a sip of scotch. (i only have water but i’ll pretend it’s glenfiddich.
chuck
“This is why blathermumble is moving to Facebook”.
Don’t know which name he mentioned, but he does have a page on facebook. So I asked him on his facebook page.
I also let him know that our founding fathers didn’t allow his hero to vote.
http://www.hs.facebook.com/johnculberson
Leelee for Obama
@Brick Oven Bill: BOB, both my parents smoked like chimneys. Pop made 89, my Mom is almost 90. It’s no guarantee, believe me.
demkat620
@angulimala: And I don’t know that I would call Russia a socialistic country. Now Sweden, that’s another story.
Bad Horse's Filly
Hmmm, I might be developing a little crush on Conan O’Brien’s cousin there. He’s got flair, I’ll say that. I’m not much for the screaming, but if that’s what it takes to make these rethugs (gawd how I love that term) look the fools they are, bring it on.
Notorious P.A.T.
Waah! Waah! I don’t want to live in Russia!
sheesh.
MikeJ
It’s just so fucking tiresome that when anybody is praised for doing anything good somebody has to spring up and tell us that once he was seen using a serviette with a post recycled content of less than 70% therefore O’Donnell IS WORSE THAN HITLER OMG WHY DOESN’T OBAMA JUST IMPLEMENT ALL MY IDEAS!!!!!
Martin
If Terri Schiavo had a living will, we wouldn’t have spent how many hundreds of thousands of dollars on her care.
Before we talk about knocking off grandma, why don’t we just ask grandma if she wants heroic measures taken? In my experience, most people *don’t* want heroic measures and want doctors to pull the plug. That little piece of paper can only save money, not cost it.
The whole argument is awesomely dishonest because the Democrats are trying to put control in the hands of the patient and Republicans are trying to deny that, but claim the opposite.
Demo Woman
Medicare is not soc ial ism but neither is a public option but the repubs equate it as such. I do agree that he missed a soft ball question by not asking how many people are now dying because of a lack of health care and then when the texas ass hmm, Lawrence could have hit him with facts. Because of that I only give him a grade of 90%.
Demo Woman
@Brick Oven Bill: Check out the health costs of diabetes. Maybe we should eat chips and smoke at the same time. Encourage a diet of Value Meals at McD’s and then no problem.
I have a fantasy that Tunch eats you for lunch.
Lesley
Aw, O’Donnell wouldn’t let him dodge and spin so he’s going to Facebook. Boo hoo.
Tsulagi
O’Donnell showed exactly how you handle lying, spinning sacks of shit. Call them on their shit and make them own it. Keep it focused, and don’t let them lead you by the nose running off the mouth on their tangential talking points. Liked how Culberson kept whining “See, this is why MSNBC’s ratings are low, you’re not letting me spin my shit,” but O’Donnell wouldn’t bite.
If more did that, you wouldn’t see situations like the health care debate devolve into bullshit like listening for three weeks the Dems are gonna kill granny. But Dem pols will learn that and grow the spine to put it into practice about the same time Cheney grows a new heart and makes a pilgrimage to Mecca.
Whispers
@BrickOvenBill
“Health care will be rationed for the elderly shortly”.
Oh really? Care to elaborate, or have you just been watching Logan’s Run on late-night TV again?
Complaints like this one, like the one that says that the US couldn’t possibly add x million people to the health care rolls because there are not enough doctors, seem to be of the form “Isn’t it delicious how Obama is going to fail”. They don’t address at all that these problems – the shortage of doctors and the cost of health care, exist regardless of whether a bill is passed or not. “Doing nothing” has been the approach since 1994 and it has contributed to the general situation getting much worse.
If you think there aren’t enough doctors, then steps need to be taken to address that issue – either by letting nurse practitioners do more kinds of medical treatment or somehow encouraging more people to go into the field. And if you think that health care costs for the elderly are spiraling out of control, it seems you could
a) propose rationing
b) snicker and say that Obama won’t admit it, but he is proposing rationing
c) seek some method, such as a public option to bring down the costs of health care.
Kathy in St. Louis
Candy Crowley is, in my humble opinion, one of the laziest, in-the-tank reporters in media today. She never reported any of the crap McCain was putting out there in anything but a positive light. She was on the bus, got the day’s press handout and never questioned anything. What would we expect of this woman? She’s not willing to do the tough work of journalism. She phones it in, for the GOP.
jenniebee
@MBSS: he missed that one. The other shenanigans that happened in FL, with the butterfly ballots and the undervoting from hanging chad, never came close to the number of legit voters who were turned away from the polls because they’d been erroneously struck from the voter rolls at the request of… Jeb Bush. He used his responsibility to purge voter rolls of felons to also (,too) purge it of anybody else whose name sorta kinda matched a felon using fuzzy logic matching. And that is how governors can swing a state…
Shabbazz
@John Cole:
Alls I’m sayin’ is you should at least let the guy state his argument (however batshit crazy it may be) BEFORE tearing it to shreds. It’s the same thing that drives me crazy about Charlie Rose — he (CR) never lets the interviewee finish a thought before either (a) completing the thought for him or (b) steering the conversation in a completely different direction.
Compare that interview with, say, Jon Stewart interviewing Bill Kristol. The style of the latter, in my opinion, resonates much louder with the rational masses. The former is just more cable-news yelling and screaming. No matter how much I agree with Lawrence O’Donell’s underlying message, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s just another talking-head on cable-TV reducing the national discourse to a shouting match.
Fulcanelli
Tweety should stay out on Nantucket. For good.
O’Donnell held that douche nozzle by the back of the head and repeatedly kicked him in the teeth. I want to have his babies. That fucking R tool simply could not keep from lying or spinning and LOD called him on it point plank repeatedly.
Can I haz moar, plz? Lyke evry day, Mr O’Donnell? Plz?
My ankle hurts from pounding the living room floor in joy, watching that. Good start to the weekend.
gocart mozart
Katie is “his hero”. Of course she is. She is pig ignorant. The congressman could never hope to be reelected without dumbass pig ignorant voters.
ericvsthem
Funny how that wingnut kept trying to take shots at O’Donnell about MSNBC’s ratings. Kind of underlines the point that cable news is fucked EXACTLY because they are worried about ratings instead of, you know, reporting the news and holding elected officials accountable.
Bad Horse's Filly
And as a side note, since the Dems in congress have an excellent health plan and seem completely incapable of growing their own spines, could we get them all spine transplants – maybe we could get a discount for volume.
Then I could go back to enjoying my remaining summer days w/o having to wonder what else they’re going to give away while in the majority.
Also.
Demo Woman
@Kathy in St. Louis: I think it’s the only way she can have sex.
asiangrrlMN
I can’t watch two seconds of that lying shack of shit, even with the temptingly yummy Larry O. doing the interviewing. Lordy, lordy, lordy, is Mr. O’Donnell mighty tasty.
Montysano
@oh really:
What was LOD supposed to do? Let that moron filibuster for 11 minutes? I guarantee that guy could go for an hour and never say a fucking thing.
If we’re so far gone as a culture that asking for a straight answer from a politician is “overbearing”, then we’re beyond hope. More, plz.
jenniebee
@Shabbazz: I can sort of see your point, but when I watched, what I saw was that Culberson wanted to drive the conversation his special project to gut Medicaid and road construction by referring to them as “expensive government grants” and O’Donnell just didn’t let Culberson take control.
I thought Culberson was the one being rude. Everybody knows that when you go on a show to talk about something other than your new book/bill/movie that you talk about the something else and then the host invites you to plug your personal schtick at the end.
The Grand Panjandrum
Whoa! Can you say bitch slap?
I can’t wait to see Meet The Press this Sunday.
Meet the Press panel for August 16, 2009:
In light of the fact Dick Armey resigned his high paying lobbying job this should be great stuff!
Via TPM:
File it under Must See TV!
TuiMel
@General Winfield Stuck:
That is one precious pooch.
Re: LOD
It would be interesting to see where the train he is driving would end up if he had more track. He has been working to expose the hypocrisy and ignorance that underlies the fears of nitwits like Katy Abram. I have to admit that I find his style distracting – even while I agree that the fools he is interviewing should not be suffered. It would be interesting to watch this line play out over time. Tweety should spend a couple more weeks on the Vineyard.
Comrade Mary
@Shabbazz: Nope. O’Donnell asked him a couple of simple, direct questions, and the guy wanted to spin off and give his views on life, the universe and everything except his answers to “Would you have voted for Social Security or Medicare?”. Fair questions, posed politely, then not so politely as he evaded and played the victim.
Indylib
Just for info – newest post has a pic of Krista’s babykitteh.
MBSS
culberson is full of shit.
i don’t blame LOD for that. come up with a real complaint.
parksideq
To quote the eloquent, timeless prose of rapper Fabolous (not a typo, btw):
“da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da-da DAMN!”
Fulcanelli
@The Grand Panjandrum: Rachel’s going on MTP with that crew?
David Gregory will be under heavy sedation all weekend before that taping…
geg6
The concern trolling of LO is exactly the same attitude that causes the Dems to rarely display any backbone. Let everyone make their point even if it’s a huge lie and distortion and distraction that takes the focus off the actual topic at hand. Fuck that. LO, that now even more devastatingly attractive, held that asshole’s feet to the fire, refusing to let him spin. That’s how it’s done with these people. You don’t let them do it. Period. Ever. Make them reveal themselves. It’s so awesome, it’s orgasmic.
Warren Terra
@ MikeJ, #1
I know the feeling – his (hers?) was the first blog I read, back in 2001 or 2002, and is probably where I first commented using this handle (well, there or at Atrios’s place, back when the comment threads were merely overly large instead of absurd). I still remember all the great, absurd speculation about his (her?) identity; I seem to recall some second-tier Clinton official (Blumenthal, perhaps?) getting tipped at lot, perhaps even Bill (AKA TBD, in Horse-speak, iirc) himself.
@ Smiley, #27
I read a bit of Alterman, especially back around the time he published What Liberal Media, because at the time he was something of a voice in the wilderness, and he was less lazy about the blogging (although he was probably being paid more for it, when it was Big Media money in the late Dot-Com boom). You’re not wrong, his smugness and insufferability, always considerable, have only increased (or simply become more grating) with time – but you’re wrong not to read his blog, because he barely writes anything for it these days and it’s your only source for the weekly letters from the irreplaceable Charles P Pierce.
@ Brick Oven Bill, #18
See, this sort of nonsense is exactly why it was inconceivably stupid to remove the completely sensible end-of-life-counseling reimbursement from the bill, because it lets lying sacks of refuse like our beloved BOB make this insane claim that the measure in question, now removed, must have provided some sort of factual basis for the lies of Sarah Palin and friends, and that its removal is an admission of this.
All i can say on the actual content of the removed measure is that my Grandfather died about a year ago, after well over half a century of serving as a neighborhood doctor to a poor and underserved community and teaching medical students to actually listen to their patients, and that while his death was slow and painful and tragic and awful, the one good thing was that we knew precisely what his wishes about treatment were at all times, and that they were being followed, because he (being, after all, a doctor) had thought them through and had communicated them to the hospital. I find genuinely painful the idea that the lies of Palin and her ilk will prevent other families with a member on the same trajectory from getting this same security.
ChrisB
@JK: Would it be wrong to say that she was standing alongside eight people and you could only see the ones at each end?
Yes it would. I take it back.
But she is gutless.
Well, actually kinda the opposite.
Sorry. I take that back too.
Trinity
Fantastic clip! I’m sorry but a lie, is a lie, is a lie. Period. Why the hell is it bad to call it out immediately? I mean, it is not as if most people haven’t already heard these wingnut lies repeated a million times. Good for LOD puttin the smackdown on such b.s.
I’m sick of being polite and kicking truth to the wayside. F that. Our M$M, for the most part, is full of sh** in the name of “objectivity”. It just pisses me off.
Ailuridae
@Bad Horse’s Filly:
Not all of them need spine transplants.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/archives/176487.asp
Rick Larsen on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Larsen
Granted its a lot easier to say that representing the Washington 2nd CD than some other places.
Shabbazz
@Comrade Mary:
I just think it’s a dumb question to begin with. “Would you have voted X when it came to vote 75 years ago” is seldom an effective interviewing tactic.
ChrisB
@bvac:
Yes, that’s what I was going to say. I was happy about it because almost nobody else was calling them out.
Michael #2
I guess I’m in the minority – but I found O’Donnell argumentative and rude. He seems like a smart enough guy to give Culberson enough rope to hang himself (the “I’m a Jeffersonian” would have been perfect ammunition to make himself look foolish). I definitely like his tack – force Culberson to admit that there are essential services that the government provides – but O’Donnell just seems like a bit of a jerk at times. Culberson’s right – he won’t let Culberson answer his questions. Though I did like when he said “If you give me a yes or no on Medicare, I’ll let you talk the rest of the time” – and Culberson couldn’t.
Plus, I saw somebody comment somewhere, that all these people that want to return to the “Founding Fathers’ intent in the Constitution,” should be reminded that that would mean that Katy, Sarah Palin, Lynne Cheney and every other female in the country would be stripped of their political rights, and would be, in essence, subservient to the will of their husbands or fathers. Native-born persons of African descent would, of course, have no legal federal standing whatsoever. (Which is the part that probably appeals to them!)
General Winfield Stuck
@Shabbazz:
No it’s not. It is question that goes straight to the heart of Right Wing hypocrisy and completely fair. It doesn’t matter that it was 75 years ago. The point is being honest about what the debate is about. This guy is about “fuck you ” to those without, but knows social safety nets are very popular and is distorting the health care bill because ideologically he is against it. He lied that he would have voted for SS because of that basic belief, not because of what is in the bill.
You’re just not used to people asking smart tough questions that cut thru the BS, and neither was this dipshit congressmen.
El Cid
All I got to say re Larry O’Donnell is, “Hell f***ing yeah.”
Anyone hear Randi Rhodes playing clips from Frank Luntz’ FOXNOOZ viewer panel after Obama’s MT town hall?
It’s AWESOME. One of the panelists calls out FOXNOOZ and Sean Hannity as bullshitters with Sean Hannity right there.
Shabbazz
@General Winfield Stuck
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@General Winfield Stuck: Oooohh! Can I haz puppeh?
eric k
Shabbaz,
It was a perfectly legit question. When Reps say they are against government being involved the obvious question is “then what about Medicare”
As to whether Medicare is socialism or not, it is certainly socialized health insurance, it isn’t socialized health care, that would be the VA or the British and Canadian Systems. LO’s framing was correct he was just calling it a socialized program which it is, since the congressman wouldn’t ever answer the question about why he supports it there really wasn’t a chance to get into the nuanced definitions of socialized health insurance vs health care.
jamie
I guess it’s sortof a dumb question, the problem was that Culbreson was never going to be straight about the real issue, namely, “Why won’t you introduce a bill to repeal Social Security and Medicare?” Even Ron Paul hasn’t done that. Hence all the tacitcs over “block grants” and “pork” etc.
I like Lawrence O’Donnell, or at least I agree with his politics, but I’m pretty sure that’s not enough to recommend him for a reporting job — he’s a weird cat. I remember once on the McLaughin Group someone got him started on mormons and you would have thought a mormon had shot his dog or something (thanks John McCain). Maddow has the same killer instinct but she’s profoundly more artful about turning the knife.
CynDee
@General Winfield Stuck: Awww. What a faaace. Beautiful.
JK
@smiley: @Warren Terra:
More often than not, I find Alterman to be right on the mark. I don’t find him to be a sanctimonious, self satisfied snob at all. I’d reserve that description for Bob Somerby of the Daily Howler.
mai naem
LOD was kind of rude but at the same time the Repug was fillibustering so what was LOD to do? You can move on but it pisses me off when they do move on and they pretty much all do it esp. on the Sunday AM shows. BTW the rightwingers on Fox act like this quite often. I personally would like to see ODonnell take over for Scarbo in the AM but I don’t see that happening since Scarbo is the only wingnut with a show on MSNBC. Not only do I not like Scarbo’s wingnuttiness but he’s so freaking smarmy and holier than thou. I figure/hope at some point the true story behind Lori Klausitis implicating him.
Slaney Black
Bye Bye, Eddy boy.
I love ya on the radio, but we got the best guy for 6 right here.
Ailuridae
@mai naem:
Scarborough’s also not getting moved out of that AM slot because Morning Joe has been a success for them. The show, however, is really disappointing and Joe often (deliberately) misstates very basic facts to advance an agenda. Early on in the show Mika and even Barnicle would occasionally try and call BS but now its largely just them echoing Scarborough’s concern trolling.
Once Joe’s book came out he started hammering on “how can spending get us out of a problem that spending caused?” tomfoolery and said nobody in the administration had an answer for that. Interestingly, Goolsbee or Orszag could answer that question without a problem – they have just neglected to book anyone from the Obama economic team for months precisely because its a takedown anyone familiar with macroeconomics could do it ten minutes. Its a really pernicious lie that is driving (along with people’s ignorant conflation of personal finance and economics) the “deficit is a big problem” meme.
PeakVT
This exchange is like the interview of Bush by Carol Coleman of Radio Television Ireland. Was she rude, or was she trying to break through the bullsh*t?
Personally, I think it’s perfectly okay for an interviewer to dispense with a smallish amount of civility when they’re not getting a straight answer.
Shabbazz
@General Winfield Stuck
Except, of course, that it does. The country, and the world, in 1935 were (obviously) drastically different than the year 2009. One can not hypothetically answer the question “Would you have done X in 1935” with any kind of honesty unless you were an active participant in the year 1935. Ergo—it’s a dumb question to ask any middle-aged person.
“Why do you support MediCare or S0cial Security despite the fact that they are socialist programs?”—Fair question (and I’m pretty sure he did ask that one and made the Congressman squirm which was entertaining).
“Would you have voted X in 1935 despite the fact that you were born in 1962”—dumb question. No reasonable person should take it seriously.
Shabbazz
Out of curiosity, what, exactly triggers a response to require moderation?
rikyrah
Lawrence O’Donnell had me LMAO. I rewound it a couple of times and smiled each time.
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@Slaney Black: yes good idea. I like Schultz but his voice drains the life force out of my body.
kay
I loved this, but I have no earthly idea if it’s “effective”.
Lawrence O’Donnell is where I am. He’s had it. I’m afraid he’s going to have a stroke.
I watched part of Obama’s town hall. I know we’re supposed to think the NRA guy was a reasonable conservative, and he was, on spending, but the “I believe in the Constitution” line, bothered me, as if that’s rare and sets him apart from the other non-believers.
I really like that Obama said “I believe in the Constitution too”, and I think that was quietly very effective, as a comeback.
Zuzu's Petals
Oh lordy, I can’t wait to see the “legislation” this guy is talking about.
He wants to make federal grants “optional” with the states? Uhm, I’m pretty sure most of ’em are … that’s why they’re called grants.
What I’m getting is that he hates the idea that if the federal government gives the state or local govs money, they can tell them how to spend it. Yeah, he actually objects to the idea of fiscal oversight.
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
WTF why is Chuck Todd saying Obama is going with the bill out of the finance committee?
kay
@SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta:
Chuck Todd thought John McCain was going to carry Pennsylvania.
Because Chuck Todd is an expert on Pennsylvania.
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@kay: Deep breath. Thanks Kay.
Aunt Moe
I miss the horse too. Was my first stop every day.
Montysano
Obviously, I’m not aware of all internet traditions. What is “the horse”?
General Winfield Stuck
@Shabbazz:
You miss the entire point. The question of whether this congressmen supports any social programs is the issue and what LO was trying to get to. The conditions of the world is irrelevant in that sense. There are people dying now by the thousands for lack of health care coverage.
But he didn’t ask about x. He asked about an ideological concept that is the same today as it was in 1935.
General Winfield Stuck
@Shabbazz:
using the S word. or so(c ial is)m. Spam filter/
Chris Johnson
It occurs to me that the guy’s primary attack on O’Donnell was this: the corporation ought to shut you down because you’re costing them money.
Anybody in a position to offer to buy advertising on a show O’Donnell is on, perhaps on the grounds that he is sexy and honest?
I’m thinking we had better figure out a way to operate in a world where corporations are way more powerful than people and capable of overriding our desires for our country.
Ash
LMFAO. When dipshits start saying bitches that talk about toilet paper rationing are their heroes, someone needs their face bashed the hell in.
I HATE ALL THESE ASSHOLES.
BDeevDad
Someone should show the Congressman this. It might explain the ratings.
Demo Woman
@Shabbazz: There are several words that get caught in moderation and they don’t necessarily make sense. One is s.h.o.e and another is c.ia.l i s. It is not necessary that those words be used alone. For example c. i a lism is actually in the word soc ial ism …
Shabbazz
Bullocks. “Ideological Concepts” are to be viewed through the lens of time. The “Ideological Concept” that “All men are created equal” isn’t quite the same in 2009 as is was in 1776, now, is it? In 1776, I’m pretty sure “All men” meant “All white male landowners”.
But we’re arguing semantics which is a crappy way to spend a Friday evening. Catch you all on the flip-flop. I’m heading out to have me some cold barley soup.
Shabbazz
Demo — thanks for the heads up!
Shabbazz
(And General Winfield Stuck, too, — thanks for the heads up)
General Winfield Stuck
@Shabbazz:
I agree. The question is why?
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
Ha! Bill Maher:”The Death Panel Game”. Love it.
Warren Terra
@ Montysano, #110
“The horse” was the mysterious proprietor or proprietors of one of the earliest political blogs, Media Whores Online.
Wile E. Quixote
@oh really
Fixt.
Kyle
What a smarmy prick that Texas Repig congressman is. I’ll bet he considers himself a super-duper superior Christian too as he pockets corporate loot.
The argument against these assholes is very simple —
Do you oppose a single-payer government health care system?
Yes? So you want to abolish Medicare?
What the fuck makes it evil soshulism for people under 65 but not for people over 65? Since when does soshulism have an age limit?
Kiril
I have a lot of sympathy for the commenters who would rather LOD had been less screamy. They are right that it is a shame that it comes to this, that this is what needs to be done. But as long as it is honest, I’m with it.
John O
Just for the record, Larry O’ seems a bit more emotionally relatable to me than most of the rich effing a-holes I see everywhere I look on national TV.
Just a guess, but Larry O has decided he has enough dough to be indifferent about being fired.
I could live and provide for several of my progeny on what LO’D is worth as of 8-15-09.
He’s the only person I’m compelled to watch on Infotainment TV anymore. (I like Rachel, too.)
oh really
@Just Some Fuckhead:
JSF, I think O’Donnell may have been exaggerating for effect. For better or worse, I try to be a stickler for accuracy when possible. It was great of O’Donnell to try to get this Bozo on the record either in support of Social Security and Medicare — which, even if I wouldn’t call them true socialism, Republicans have been doing so for years — or in support of eliminating them. Representative Bozo’s squirming was delightful.
I think it is high time for public officials to face being called out for lies — in those terms. I was listening to the radio tonight and several reporters were discussing “death panels.” More than one caller said that the media should stop the stenography and point out lies — as lies — when they exist. The right winger in the group was strenuously against using the word lie, because, according to him, lying is a totally subjective issue. So, when a winger gets up and claims that legislation will create panels of government bureaucrats who will decide when granny should die, that can’t be called a lie, even if the legislation says no such thing. To this fool, calling a lie a lie is really just a reporter taking sides. It was a familiar argument, but no less maddening by virtue of its ubiquity.
It was ironic listening to the conservative reporter, because it was so obvious his position was really just him taking a favoring the (current) liars because he favored their politics.
oh really
@Wile E. Quixote:
Damn, there really are death panels!!!
Meadow Lark
Kinda nice to see the right get “Hannitized” but it’s not at all civil. About damn time!
No one wants to “pull the plug on Grandma.”
Republicans do want to “pull the plug” on her healthcare.
Chris Johnson
I was just reading an earlier comment about Obama saying ‘I believe in the Constitution too’ and had a bit of a reverie.
Wouldn’t this be awesome?
“I believe in it too. In fact, I was a constitutional law professor- a senior lecturer alongside Judge Richard Posner. I can repeat the Constitution to you, from memory. Hey, it was my day job for twelve years!”
“Now, this is a bit of a party trick, so forgive me if I leave out some of the commas… We the people of the United States..”
Bobby Thomson
Candy Crowley is not a coward. She is a hard core conservative Republican. She is a true believer in Junior Bush and couldn’t have a more obvious Platonic crush on him if she tried.
Hedley Lamarr
Please: Just as we learn to write “John Boener” or better yet, “John Boner”, we should also observe the lady’s name is “Creepy Crowley”
Patriot 3
@John Cole August 14, 7:51 p.m.
@Shabbazz: Bullshit. What we need right now is outright hostility to lies and bullshit.
Spare me the vapors.
——————
Amen. But should we maybe feel compassion for the conservative Republicans for they are pathological liars and know not what to do for themselves.
Never mind, we all know they know what to do for themselves and that they are pathological liars and proud of it.
And yes, why doesn’t O’Donnell have his own show?
In honor of one of our country’s immortal statesmen, the title of the show could be:
“Go ***k Yourself!”
Ella in NM
Candy Crowley is the “national correspondent” version of a fat girl in high school who sells out because she’s worried that no one will ask her to the prom.
The Saff
@Chris Johnson: Perfect. When I saw this clip last night on the news, I was like, “Um, NRA guy, the president taught constitutional law at the friggin University of Chicago for 12 years. He can recite the damned text chapter and verse.” I wonder how many of these people who claim they are concerned about the Constitution have actually read it. I have a copy on my desk at work and the iPhone app.
rs
I enjoyed that. Maybe they could change the show’s name to “Brushback” when O’Donnell hosts. Unlike the batting practice pitches by Matthews.
liberal
The funny thing is people occasionally talking about Grassley as a “moderate” or “centrist”.
I grew up in Iowa—voted for McGovern at age 7 in 1972! (Dad held me up in the voting booth and I pulled the lever for the Dem slate)—and I’ve always thought Grassley was a right-winger.
When people talk about so-and-so being a moderate or whatever, do they _ever_ look up their voting scores? I looked up Grassley for a sample year in American’s for Democratic Action’s voting records, and his score was pretty right-wing.
(During the primaries—I voted for Obama—a similar exercise would have shown that Obama and Hillary weren’t all that different.)
Surreal American (One time, at FEMA camp)
I’ll admit it was cathartic to see Rep. Shitbag get eviscerated by O’Donnell. Rep. Shitbag has no fear of confronting townhall teabaggers because he mouths the same mindless platitudes of standing up against “socialism” or whatever teabaggers are against at the moment. So long as rudeness passes for political discourse nowadays, politicians like Rep. Shitbag need to have their fair share of it.
That said, O’Donnell shouldn’t have a regular talk show host gig. He has difficulty taking off his talk show panel hat, which requires you to talk over and louder than the other guests.
Paul L.
Please, please, please, keep calling these people liars.
But for some reason progressives get upset when I point out Howard dean is a Liar.
Screaming LIAR is nothing new for Lawrence O’Donnell as that was how he debated John O’Neill.
I wonder if O’Donnell believes Kerry’s “Christmas in Cambodia” as it was “seared” into his memory.
Yes give a show to the guy who claimed the US performed war crimes prosecutions for waterboarding and could not name who and when.
oh really
@Montysano:
I don’t entirely disagree, but sometimes a lighter touch is more effective.
In a sense one could argue that there are at least three audiences out there (though how many actually watch any specific program is something else again).
1st Audience: Hard core and devoted lefties. For good reason they want someone like O’Donnell to shove a guest’s lies right back down his throat. It’s great to see that, because our elected officials are, for the most part, so spineless.
2nd Audience: Hard core and devoted wingers. Anything O’Donnell does will offend them. Who cares?
3rd Audience: The non-hardcore and un-devoted. They are going to respond differently. If a host seems to refuse to give a guest a chance to say his or her piece, even if that piece is a tissue of lies, the host may come off badly and the impact of confronting a guest with his lies may be diluted. A softer touch here may accomplish more. O’Donnell could still call the guy a liar, at the same time he let the guy finish a sentence. There’s nothing wrong with any host cutting off a guest who is spinning out an appearance with rehearsed talking points.
I wholeheartedly endorse the use of the words lie, liar, and lying POS. I don’t support falsehood, prevarication, or any other weasel word for what is lying.
Actually, I think we already are way, way beyond hope.
Caravelle
Shabbazz :
In theory I agree with you, but it doesn’t always work in practice, and in this case at least I’m more with O’Donnell. The problem is that those are people who are trained to “answer” a question by “going back to the message”, i.e. spouting of their talking points at length whether it’s related to the question or not. If you don’t interrupt them they could go on until the end of the segment, make a rousing speech of it. The interviewer has limited time after all.
And in that vein, notice that Jon Steward (these days) isn’t afraid to have an interview go overtime and edit it afterwards. That gives him more leeway to let the interviewee go on at length while not letting them off the hook.
gizmo
O’Donnell was just being pugnacious and inconsiderate and nasty. I wouldn’t want to see a progressive politician treated that way, and O’Donnell shouldn’t treat his guest that way. This is not intelligent and productive discourse. The GOP Congressman is a nitwit, but this kind of juvenile food fight demeans our political culture. This is simply FOX News in reverse.
gizmo
O’Donnell was just being pugnacious and inconsiderate and nasty. I wouldn’t want to see a progressive politician treated that way, and O’Donnell shouldn’t treat his guest that way. This is not intelligent and productive discourse. The GOP Congressman is a nitwit, but this kind of juvenile food fight demeans our political culture. This is simply FOX News in reverse.
Neel
Wow. We need more network news hosts like Lawrence O’Donnell. He really cut through the BS and exposed the lies and hypocrisy of the congressman from Texas.
bvac
Now that I think of it, it might have been Barnicle that shouted O’Neill down. Oh well, either way.