Open Thread by Tim F| August 16, 200910:11 am| 89 CommentsThis post is in: Open ThreadsFacebookTweetEmailGo!
General Winfield Stuck
Watching Conrad on FNS, he is officially on my DINO list. Says not the votes in the Senate to pass a PO, and that Obama should drop it instead of beating a dead horse, or something to that effect.
Sibelius said almost the same thing, PO is not a stopper.
Ok. I put this in the last thread, but it belongs here rather than there, though it was tangentially related:
My niece just told me she doesn’t like Obama because he will make it so that if parents don’t want their baby, the nurses will starve said baby. She’s eleven.
That thunking sound you hear is the repeated intersection of my head and my desk.
I usually try to say, “Oh, really? That’s interesting. Tell me more,” but not this time. I said, “That just isn’t true.” Sigh. From the mouth of babes.
General Winfield Stuck
We need to hear from the Senate Libs who are the majority in the Senate. If not, then no recon. process or 51 vote vote, and no PO.
Most annoying thing I’ve seen this morning was Howie “the douche” Kurtz being perplexed by Keith Olbermann’s anger at Sarah Palin for her outrageous bullshit comments about death panels.
@asiangrrlMN: Wow, Palin got to her too.
Does anyone else think it’s particularly horrifying that the person suggesting that a handicapped baby could be killed is his own mother?
Palin has more issues than the National Geographic.
gregory giving a boost to the assassins in the audience, talking in great detail about the tone and some of the participants of the town halls.
‘violence against the government’ … then turns it over to tom coburn to
and he just shut down rachel’s attempt to correct dick armey’s first lie of the morning.
Dick Armey is an ass. I’m not sure that I can sit through any more of MTP. Rachel and Tom Daschle are doing okay but someone needs to stuff a sock in Armey’s mouth.
her exploitation of that baby is beyond contempt.
Specter rather good at demolishing Hatch on ABC this morning. I am one of those Dems happy to have the forceful Specter on our side.
@asiangrrlMN: Wow. Did she pick that up from her parents or come up with that take on her own?
South of I-10
Hello Ana, Bill and tropical depression 4?! I hate hurricane season.
@jwb: I suspect asiangrrlMN would want to blame the in-law side of the family. Still, kids pick these things up at school too. I remember my fair share of teachers in small-town Iowa who would rant about politics to kids not well equipped to debate the issue.
A Mom Anon
Dick Armey can DIAF. What a smarmy piece of crap. Ack. I gotta do something else,I can feel my BP rising.
Quick! Help her prepare! Tell her to run, run, run! Give her a map — the fedral gubmit can track her through a GPS or cellphone — and some dried sausage and cheeses and water bottles, and tell her to run, run, run to the forest so she may survive the coming wave of Obama’s Kenyan witchcraft Sangria-law killing! Run!!!
“Sibelius said almost the same thing, PO is not a stopper.”
She regulated health insurance in Kansas, as governor, and did a good job. That’s her approach. It’s a state government tactic. That approach is just wrong for this. She wasn’t in a position to reform the process.
We needed a health care reformer in that job, or at least one in the Senate. Without Daschle and Kennedy, without some wild-eyed advocates, it’s going to be insurance regulation.
If there’s a mandate, and the bought and paid for Congress is then regulating the industry they just capitulated to, and hand them 45 million new sheep to slaughter, that’s just a recipe for disaster.
I don’t think you can capitulate to industry lobbyists and then credibly claim you’re going to enact tough new regulations on that same industry. If you were a health insurance entity, would the specter of Congressional regulation or oversight frighten you. After this big victory.
They can’t regulate if they can’t legislate. That’s a pipe dream.
Rachel clearly got to Armey on MTP, and Daschle handled Coburn effectively as well.
The problem with MTP is that it gives the impression that Armey’s words have the same legitimacy as Maddow’s and Daschle’s.
@A Mom Anon: Every time I hear his name I smirk. A guy named Dick Armey as a public face for a lobbying firm? Priceless.
Think of that and it’s much easier to stand him long enough to hear a rebuttal.
(droool drool drool…)
@Demo Woman: @A Mom Anon:
Watching Dick Armey is a real test of one’s sanity, stamina, and endurance. I don’t think I can pass the test. I think I’m going to turn off Meet the Press and watch The Sopranos on A&E.
These Sunday shows are a total crock of shit.
WASHINGTON – Until last week, Republican Sen. Johnny Isakson was among the most enthusiastic backers of end-of-life counseling in government health care programs like Medicare.
That was before conservatives called it a step toward euthanasia and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin likened the idea to a bureaucratic “death panel” that would decide whether sick people get to live. And even though those claims have been widely discredited, the issue remains a political weapon in the increasingly bitter health care debate.
No inlaws for me. I am not married. She’s my brother’s daughter, and while I think she got it from school, it’s entirely possible she got it from her parents. They voted for Obama, but more out of disgust for W. (my bro voted for him twice) than for anything else. Needless to say, they are much more conservative than am I.
i’m west coast. MTP just started. i haven’t watched this show in years. i’m hoping maddow will deliver.
@JK: Yeah, unfortunately.
@El Cid: Now that’s just damn funny.
Charles Dickens could not have dreamed up a better or more appropriate name than Dick Armey.
I hope you are successful in your effort to deprogram her.
I was wondering how the screaming retards were impacting the broad mass of people who don’t pay much attention to politics, when I got a text from my girlfriend, who doesn’t pay much attention to politics:
“I am so disgusted by the lack of civility that has erupted from a vocal minority over the healthcare debate. I can’t stand even listening to the coverage.”
So here’s hoping that the screaming retards are having that kind of effect on most people, and utterly discrediting themselves and pushing people to the other side.
New Rule: Democrats bring a stopwatch onto these shows and time how much time they themselves get to speak (without being shouted over), and then calmly report exactly what the ratio of Rep/Dem talk-time was, as allowed by the host. I’m thinking it’s close to 3:1.
Isn’t that great? Twenty years of careful explanation and tweaking and cajoling to encourage people to draft advanced directives because it is in their best interest to do so and the moronic press favorite, Sarah Palin, blows it all to hell in a week.
She promoted advanced directives in Alaska. She stood up there reading off an index card, apparently, because she has no earthly idea what an advanced directive is .
This was not a mystery. There is, quite literally, twenty years of work invested in this at the state level, and probably 10 at the federal level.
My state alone has a statute and reams of legislative notes and debate. Can someone explain how this ridiculous conspiracy theory took hold? Why did they press allow this?
In fact I hope they take it further. Right now Grover Norquist gets GOP politicians to sign pledges not to raise taxes ever under any circumstances. I hope in 5 years GOP candidates have to pledge to burn biology textbooks, pass a constitution amendment declaring Obama an uppity darkie, deport all hispanics regardless of citizenship, and rename the United States of America as “The Jesus United God States God of America God Jesus God God Under God”.
I’m not so confident. Over the past week, I’ve seen several news stories claiming that the knuckle dragging neanderthals are turning the poll numbers against Obama.
asiangrrlMN: Gawd. How thankful am I that all of my family has been carefully indoctrinated in the Isalmofascistblacketyblackcommie agenda and we all follow it with no question. More seriously, we’re all Dems and thankful for that. That said, being Dems, Will Rogers was right and we fight accordingly.
@JK: I did not make the entire hour. Instead I switched to Face the Nation which had on Chuck Hagel and Lee Hamilton talking about Afghanistan.
Brick Oven Bill
Rahm Emanuel’s mom sent him to ballet school. He is a graduate of the Evanston School of Ballet, not like there is anything wrong with that.
This is kind of like The Boy Named Sue, but Sue did not have any say in his name. Sue’s dad gave it to him.
@ kay I don’t think the advanced directives stuff is ruined. I think this is a temporary blip. The loud idiots seem to be discrediting themselves and maybe making health care reform more likely in the end.
Bill, it’s Sunday morning. It’s too early for pie.
John McCain should burn in hell for inflicting Sarah Palin on this country. If this warped, frustrated fool hadn’t selected Palin to be his running mate, nobody outside of Alaska would know who the hell she is and we’d be a lot better off as a result.
BOB: Did you know that Pro Football Hall of Fame wide receiver Lynn Swann also took ballet at the Pittsburgh Ballet Theater AND has a girly first name? Seems like some pretty tough guys to me, both Lynn and Rahm.
hagel’s about to join the administration is some defense dept appt i read this past week.
Damn, I wish I’d done that. I’m sure it was far more informative than this nonsense on Meet the Press, although I wish Bob Schieffer would retire. He’s a terrible interviewer.
@linda: I hadn’t heard about that. Hope that story you read was accurate.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Brick Oven Bill: You know something, honey? You shouldn’t give your pie away with breakfast! It makes you look cheap!
All I know is I’m going to have a hard time getting excited about the piece-of-crap that comes out of Congress if it doesn’t include a public option.
I would counsel people not to freak out and despair about short term things, and keep their eye on the next few months. And keep calling congressmen, senators, etc. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Saw a question from a second year medical student in Iowa or Idaho on CNN asking about increasing reimbursement from medicare to keep him in the state. I can’t tell you how aggravating it is to see someone use misleading credentials to back up their points. As a third year medical student I can attest that this kid is most assuredly full of shit. He hasn’t even set foot in a hospital yet and already is bitching about his compensation. If I was dean of this kid’s med school I would pummel him with a copy of the Hippocratic Oath.
“All I know is I’m going to have a hard time getting excited about the piece-of-crap that comes out of Congress if it doesn’t include a public option.”
Which has been an impressive transformation itself. As bloggers and reporters pointed out, the plans that were considered liberal 5 years ago didn’t include a public option.
I do hope we get it. It would really help America become a first-world country again.
jk — it was al kamen’s column in thew apo; and it’s a national security post, not defense. i know he’s conservative, but at least he’s not insane:
Former Nebraska senator Chuck Hagel (R), a senior administration official-in-waiting either later this term or in President Obama’s second term (if there is one), is taking another step into Obama’s national security team. We’re hearing Hagel is in line to co-chair the important President’s Intelligence Advisory Board (formerly known as the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board).
I remember doing a vocabulary assignment in grade school that reflected the anti-Nixon sentiments of my parents. The teacher wrote that it was “in poor taste” (must have been the part about punching Nixon in the nose) and made me redo it.
@Brick Oven Bill: Rahm could kick your ass, and you should be grown up enough not to be jealous.
@asiangrrlMN: Similar thing happened earlier this spring with my 9 year old niece in SC; this was around the time when the anti-choice folks were up in arms about Obama giving the commencement address at Notre Dame . My niece told my brother that she does like Barack Obama because “he’s a baby-killer.” I flipped out when my brother told me that. Not sure where she got it from but if I had to guess it was at her Catholic school or from her school friends.
Brick Oven Bill
Dick Cheney made money cycling between private and public work, a questionable practice. He was the Chief Executive Officer of Halliburton, an operational infrastructure and oil services company, for five years. His deferred compensation received in office as Vice President was $398,548. Source: FactCheck, an Annenberg organization, that employs Joe Miller, who has touched it. Dick Cheney, to the best of my knowledge, was never a ballerina.
In contrast, Rahm Emanuel made $16.2 million over 30 months while employed by Wasserstein-Perella, a hedge fund. The compensation largely has to do with a bonus received during a sale of SBC communications. Ed Whitacre was CEO of SBC at the time. Ed Whitacre was recently named CEO of General Motors, where he has since vowed to:
”Learn about cars.”.
Emanuel was also on the board of Freddie Mac, again, not like there is anything wrong with that.
Two things caught my attention on Meet The Press this morning:
1) The braying about the “oppressive” regulations that prevent consumers from buying Health Care Insurance (HCI) across State lines.
Asshats like Dick Armey think the solution is to eliminate these rules, thus allowing consumers to experience the joy of market competition (and the “snap” of the latex exam glove on the “Invisible Hand”, heh) by getting to choose from 1300 Health Insurance Companies? 1300?
1300 Insurance Companies are gonna want to devise polices to comply with 50 different States’ insurance laws. Right.
My wife and I are self-employed. We looked into paying for our own health insurance policy with the two most popular companies available in the State. Blue Cross and United Health.
Both companies offered over 10 different plans, with varying levels of coverage and deductible levels. I spent hours deciphering the pros and cons of each and determined that a plan worth having for anything other than catastrophic coverage was over $1000 a month. And even that had a $500 deductible.
We don’t have health coverage. We can’t afford to.
But I’m confident once I can chose from 1300 different companies and their vast variety of offerings, We’re all fucking set. Hello, single payer?
2) People want to opt OUT of Medicare, but they can’t because it will screw them in regards to Social Security? I’ve never heard of anybody wanting to opt out, has anyone here? And for what reason? And ultimately, how many people are we talking about here nationwide if this is true?
So Dick Armey files a frivolous “I’m gonna make a point here” lawsuit against the Federal Government to bitch about him not being able to opt out of Medicare. Why not just refuse to use it and save the taxpayers money? Idiot.
Yeah, here’s another Republican hypocrite for Tort Reform. Like Man-On-Dog Rick Santorum and his $300,000 lawsuit settlement. They’re agin’ it… Until they figure out a way to use it for THEIR advantage.
I would never suggest putting this in the actual bill, but it’s fun to imagine a requirement that anyone enrolling in the public option check a box that says “I recognize that this government-provided health care is superior to anything I can find in the private sector.”
Healthcare reform supporters outnumbered Teabag/birther/anti-government wingnuts at yesterday’s townhall in Grand Junction.
According to HuffPo piece, “As it turned out, the anti-reform protesters were greatly outnumbered by those supporting reform.”
I doubt this will make any impact in the national MSM, but it’s damned nice to know that on a local level Organizing for America is working at making sure reform supporters are showing up at these events, I hope they are doing the same for events for Congresscritters.
Grand Junction is a relatively small c conservative area and it’s a loooong way from the bigger cities in Colorado, so I’m happy to see a bunch of locals who support reform were willing to get up and out to show their support.
Hagel is part of a very rare endangered species – a sane conservative. You can practically count them on one hand.
“Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing… after they have exhausted all other possibilities.” — Winston Churchill
@Brick Oven Bill:
Dick Cheney doesn’t know dick.
Random question – does anyone know how John came up with Tunch’s name?
It fits perfectly, but its genesis escapes me. This has been bothering me since about 2:00 this morning . . .
Leelee for Obama
@JK: And hope they have an acolyte or two.
I don’t love Hagel, but I do respect him, even when I disagree with him. I thought he might get SecArmy or Deputy SecDef. Maybe he’ll get SecDef when Gates is ready to go and Obama is ready to let him go. I could envision worse choices.
Leelee for Obama
@Bertie Wooster: Isn’t Tunch a football player, or am I completely off- base?
C&L has a good clip from Bill Moyer’s program talking about the reasons that the media screws up the balance and focus of the health care debate. Of course, no one from the media is going to slap their forhead and fix what they’re doing after they see this, but it’s still worth the watch.
Bertie Wooster: Tunch is named for Tunch Ilkin, former center for the Steelers and current radio voice for Steeler games.
@Leelee & geg6:
Brilliant. Thanks. No wonder I didn’t get it – born without the sports lobe of my brain, I’m afraid.
Brick Oven Bill
I like Dick Cheney.
If Captain Sullenberger or Captain Phillips will not run in 2112, Dick Cheney would make a good back-up candidate. The people who bitch about Cheney’s $398,548 in deferred income for being CEO of an infrastructure company for 5 years should look to Axlerod, who cashed a $3 million check for his brilliant word ‘Astroturfing’.
This $3 million payday for Axlerod was surely not to buy political influence. It was because ‘Astroturfing’ is such a brilliant word, and worth so much.
Shorter BOB: “I’m going to keep ramping up the stupid until someone reacts.”
There, BOB. Happy now?
Sorry Ash Can, I’m still not reacting. I just scroll.
@asiangrrlMN: Wouldn’t your brother’s wife be your sister-in-law?
All I know is I’m going to have a hard time getting excited about the piece-of-crap that comes out of Congress if it doesn’t include a public option
I’m less and less in favor of the PO after the last couple of weeks. I can just imagine the endless lunacy over what will/will not be covered coming out of the govt for years to come.
Ending recission, pre-existing coverage denials, etc – this stuff seems far more important at this point to me.
I agree about 90% with Bruce Bartlett on how the media got where it is today.
If that happens, it’s going to come with a mandate to purchase private insurance. It’s not worth it. Not only is it bad policy, it’ll be a disaster for the Democrats politically.
@BFR: Of course, but I don’t really think of her family as my in-laws. Really, my niece could have gotten it anywhere. It just depresses me that this meme is so entrenched, she’s convinced it’s true.
Oops. That was for opium4themasses. I want my edit button!
@The Saff: I know! It’s so frustrating because these memes are so prevalent.
How would those mandates even work? I’m not being flip, because I really don’t understand. Would there be criminal penalties if you don’t buy insurance?
Yes. If you don’t buy insurance, you’ll be fined. The insurance companies will get 50 million new customers, a majority of whom will be young and healthy. It’ll be a tremendous windfall for them.
Btw, mandates are in every bill proposed so far–even the supposedly “progressive” House bill.
I have been most recalcitrant in pimpin’ mah kitteh lately, but I offer this as redress. Long time Momo-watchers will notice that her body mass is filling out nicely as she approaches adulthood, although she does still have a tiny, little pin head (just like me!).
And how. I bet most of these people will buy crappy high deductible insurance out of necessity. It will be great for insurance companies.
Well, to be fair, I think the House bill includes language setting a minimum level of benefits that the insurance companies have to provide. So it might not be quite as bad as that. But overall, mandates with no public option will be a disaster. It’ll be a huge transfer of money to the private, for-profit insurance industry. And somehow, I don’t think that all those young voters who turned out for Obama are going to be very happy if all they get is a mandate to buy private insurance and no real substantial reforms of the system.
Honestly though, if you’re going to require insurance companies to accept people regardless of their re-existing conditions, there has to be some penalty for not paying for insurance.
Otherwise, a lot of people would opt-out until they found the lump and then buy insurance and get the tests. Insurance is a system of distributed risks, and the further the risks can be distributed, the better it works.
True, and I think that’s why countries with national health care pay half as much as we do and cover everybody.
@opium4themasses: I see what you’re saying, but the fact is that mandates with no public option is nothing but a huge transfer of wealth to the insurance companies. If that’s all we get out of a Democratic president, House, and 60 Dem Senators, I’m going to have no choice but to conclude that Ralph Nader was right all along. An asshole, sure, but right nonetheless.
@Mark S.: I agree single-payer is a better option. Medicare For All and such. However, that’s not on the table.
So did you guys miss me, or what? :)
Baby RedKitten (a.k.a. Samuel) is upstairs napping with his daddy. We just got home today. It’s been a real roller-coaster ride (and that was just the labour — oy, what a long story THAT was!) but we’re starting to get used to each other, and we’re already completely smitten with him.
Oh, were you gone? Did something happen? ;)
Kidding. We totally missed you. just check all those threads with everyone wringing their hands about not having gotten an update about the birth.
@RedKitten: Pictures!!!!!! We demand more pictures!!!!!!! Welcome back, Krista. It’s so good to see you.