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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Anthem of the Sun

Anthem of the Sun

by John Cole|  August 24, 200911:08 pm| 73 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Foreign Affairs

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Drill, baby, drill:

President Obama wants to make the United States “the world’s leading exporter of renewable energy,” but in his seven months in office, it is China that has stepped on the gas in an effort to become the dominant player in green energy — especially in solar power, and even in the United States.

Chinese companies have already played a leading role in pushing down the price of solar panels by almost half over the last year. Shi Zhengrong, the chief executive and founder of China’s biggest solar panel manufacturer, Suntech Power Holdings, said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.

Checking my magic eight-ball, I think what would fix this is deregulating the oil industry more, allowing more offshore drilling, and more corporate tax cuts for oil and gas. I’ll have to check Reason magazine to know for sure, now that no one reads TechCentralStation.

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Reader Interactions

73Comments

  1. 1.

    Sloth

    August 24, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    In Mass, Evergreen Solar (pretty sure it was them) just let their VP of operations go as they have decided to outsource all manufacturing.

    I am wondering just how this quote: “Shi Zhengrong, the chief executive and founder of China’s biggest solar panel manufacturer, Suntech Power Holdings, said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.” is going to play out.

  2. 2.

    bayville

    August 24, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    Just got off the phone with Gillespie and McMegan’s hubby and they both give your plan a double-thumbs up.

  3. 3.

    beltane

    August 24, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    The USA has become like the vanished Viking colony of Greenland. Had they eaten salmon and seal like the natives, they could have survived in the worsening climate. But the priests told them to continue raising cows and sheep like good Christians, and so they perished.

    We are just as stupid and shortsighted as these people.

  4. 4.

    El Cid

    August 24, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    There used to be a term for selling products under cost in order to destroy or avert competition, but it would probably be too anti-freedomish to remember it.

  5. 5.

    Ian Aberbach

    August 24, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Don’t forget about eliminating all gasoline taxes.

  6. 6.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Having so many wingnuts in this country. is like carrying an eleventy thousand pound turd on our backs.

  7. 7.

    El Cid

    August 24, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Besides, remember, we don’t need the lower skill, low to medium wage manufacturing jobs which will flow to places like China. Our real future lies in tech jobs and financial innovation. It’s inevitable.

  8. 8.

    Roger Moore

    August 24, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Gee. And my first thought was that a statement like that makes an excellent prima facie argument for an anti-dumping complaint. But then again, I don’t believe in the inevitable good of the invisible hand.

  9. 9.

    bayville

    August 24, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Kudlow chimed in. Said if Obama acts on this plan tomorrow, gas at the pump will be down to 76cents/gallon by Sunday.

  10. 10.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    August 24, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Under international trade laws isn’t what China doing considered dumping? If I’m right then the US has a case it can take to the WTO.

    But drill, baby, drill works. Of course, it will make it more difficult to see Russia from Palins back porch but we all have to pitch in or the terrorists win.

    In a tangential piece Meteor Blades wrote about a group of retired military brass pushing for more energy independence as a national security issue, and they are making a big push for alternative energy development.

  11. 11.

    cleek

    August 24, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Golden years, go-ooo-old, whop whop whop.

    i’m glad i’m not twenty years younger than i am. it’s gonna suck, being China’s fluffer.

  12. 12.

    MikeJ

    August 24, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    China will always be ahead in solar power:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7851670606705207738

  13. 13.

    jl

    August 24, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    The USA is on the edge of becoming a declining industry. The filthy rich and corrupt plutocrats who run the country do not care. A few will be left standing after they suck the last dollar out the ruined capital stock, wasted resources, and debased and diseased population. They will then decide to which one of their foreign villas to retire, where they can party lavishly and talk over the good old days before they had to share the earth in degraded socialist nations. For they will be outcasts and victims, and will decry their fate.

  14. 14.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    August 24, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    OT: Obama to reappoint Bernanke as Fed Chief.

  15. 15.

    cleek

    August 24, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    OT: any those of us nite owls on the east coast may get a chance to see a shuttle launching tonight (about 1:35 AM): MSNBC

  16. 16.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    @bayville:

    Kudlow chimed in. Said if Obama acts on this plan tomorrow, gas at the pump will be down to 76cents/gallon by Sunday.

    Kudlow is the creepiest winger of them all imo. Just looking at him on the teevee makes my skin crawl. That said, I hope he’s right and the oil companies can suck eggs.

  17. 17.

    Lev

    August 24, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Well, John, it was good enough for Reagan! We all know that we haven’t had energy trouble since then.

    I mean, they were literally saying this 30 years ago, verbatim.

  18. 18.

    PeakVT

    August 24, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Didn’t we have a president who talked about alternative energy and energy independence and whatnot about 30 years ago? Whatever happened to him?

  19. 19.

    Max

    August 24, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    OT –

    The evil one has spoken… via The Weekly Standard

    Former Vice President Dick Cheney gave The Weekly Standard a statement Monday night about the CIA documents and the coming Justice Department investigation.

    The documents released Monday clearly demonstrate that the individuals subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques provided the bulk of intelligence we gained about al Qaeda. This intelligence saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks. These detainees also, according to the documents, played a role in nearly every capture of al Qaeda members and associates since 2002. The activities of the CIA in carrying out the policies of the Bush Administration were directly responsible for defeating all efforts by al Qaeda to launch further mass casualty attacks against the United States. The people involved deserve our gratitude. They do not deserve to be the targets of political investigations or prosecutions. President Obama’s decision to allow the Justice Department to investigate and possibly prosecute CIA personnel, and his decision to remove authority for interrogation from the CIA to the White House, serves as a reminder, if any were needed, of why so many Americans have doubts about this Administration’s ability to be responsible for our nation’s security.

  20. 20.

    Max

    August 24, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    @Max: There was supposed to be some blockquotes, but that last paragraph is that POS Cheney’s statement.

  21. 21.

    PeakVT

    August 24, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum: All I can say is: at least we didn’t get Summers. Or Geithner.

  22. 22.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    @Max:

    Ben Franklin is spinning in his grave.

    What a complete unmitigated rotten SOB coward is DArth Cheney.

  23. 23.

    BP in MN

    August 24, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    I think it depends on the extent to which the firms in question are being supported by the Chinese government. I don’t think selling below cost at the individual firm level is considered dumping. If the government is subsidizing the production and then the companies are selling in the US below cost because the Chinese markets are flooded, then there’s a WTO case.

    But I may be completely wrong about that.

  24. 24.

    Zifnab

    August 24, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    Hey, eventually we will just run out of money, right? And then the USA won’t look like such a hot market. So, HA! China, suck on that!

  25. 25.

    DougJ

    August 24, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    The USA has become like the vanished Viking colony of Greenland. Had they eaten salmon and seal like the natives, they could have survived in the worsening climate. But the priests told them to continue raising cows and sheep like good Christians, and so they perished.

    I think that all the time.

  26. 26.

    bayville

    August 24, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    OT: Obama to reappoint Bernanke as Fed Chief.

    I was hoping for Dykstra.

  27. 27.

    MikeJ

    August 24, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    I was hoping for Dykstra.

    I was fearing it would be Favre.

  28. 28.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 25, 2009 at 12:01 am

    @MikeJ:

    I was hoping for Dykstra.

    Lenny “Nails” Dykstra. Yes, that’s a go.

  29. 29.

    bayville

    August 25, 2009 at 12:02 am

    I was fearing it would be Favre.

    Well he’s not doing anything special since he retired.

  30. 30.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 25, 2009 at 12:04 am

    sorry baville, Dykstra was yours.

  31. 31.

    jl

    August 25, 2009 at 12:06 am

    @DougJ: I read someplace that as it got colder during the fatal climatic cycle that sealed their fate, and they refused to adapt, their livestock became dwarfed. They ended up living with their dwarfed stock (which had become only somewhat larger than big dogs) inside of their hovels.

    But, they lived the Viking way to end. With pride, I suppose.

  32. 32.

    Ty Lookwell

    August 25, 2009 at 12:07 am

    More and more it seems like this country peaked about 10 years ago and the drift towards second-rate status, the long predicted loss of unipolar superpower standing and empire, has visibly set in. Although the rot started a few decades back…

  33. 33.

    CatStaff

    August 25, 2009 at 12:07 am

    BP in MN –

    Actually, I believe that if they’re selling below the cost of production, dumping laws address that, and if government subsidies are involved, then our countervailing duty laws get into the act.

  34. 34.

    josefina

    August 25, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Don’t forget oil shale! (Just to seal the deal with the BOB segment, since you can’t come right out with blatantly racist declarations based on poorly sourced and even more poorly understood concepts of evolution, human and otherwise controversial yet obvious observations.)

  35. 35.

    Roger Moore

    August 25, 2009 at 12:09 am

    Checking my magic eight-ball

    I’m thinking that “Magic Eight-ball” is going to have to be a new tag for unthinking use of generic talking points. I suspect it’s going to get a big workout.

  36. 36.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    August 25, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Hey, eventually we will just run out of money, right? And then the USA won’t look like such a hot market. So, HA! China, suck on that!

    I know you’re snarking but China does have a strange growth strategy. “We will make tons of money on exports and then use that money to buy more U.S. debt.” Talk about a crappy long time investment.

    And then there’s their energy policy. “We will dump cheap solar products and hybrid vehicles on the market AND lead the world in coal-fired power plants.” That’s like washing down a Hardee’s Thickburger with a diet Coke.

  37. 37.

    Will

    August 25, 2009 at 12:12 am

    “Checking my magic eight-ball, I think what would fix this is deregulating the oil industry more, allowing more offshore drilling, and more corporate tax cuts for oil and gas.”

    ______________

    And we should all get our very own “private energy account”.

  38. 38.

    uila

    August 25, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Great album reference, John. One of my favorites.

  39. 39.

    flounder

    August 25, 2009 at 12:14 am

    As El Cid said, we used to take international action against price dumping like this. If it was a gas station doing it the jackboots would step in to prevent the guy from undercutting everyone in town.

  40. 40.

    WereBear

    August 25, 2009 at 12:19 am

    @Will: Good one!

    And we should all get our very own “private energy account”.

    Actually, this points up the Republican thang of treating us like tiny, inadequate, undercapitalized corporations. What works macro for the big players is utter FAIL on the micro level of individuals.

    Yet, since so many wingers secretly yearn for the money and power of large corporations, they fall for it.

  41. 41.

    Gordon, The Big Express Engine

    August 25, 2009 at 12:19 am

    O/T but is anyone wants to hear some great piano recitals of modern music, check out Christopher O’Riley’s Radiohead tribute albums. He’s the guy on NPR that does the weekly classical show with teenage performers.

    The piano version of Let Down is absolutely heartbreaking. Ditto Fake Plastic Trees.

    For an alternative rendering, see the Easy-Dub All-Stars Radiodread covers.

  42. 42.

    malraux

    August 25, 2009 at 12:21 am

    @PeakVT:

    Didn’t we have a president who talked about alternative energy and energy independence and whatnot about 30 years ago? Whatever happened to him?

    Oh, what’s that I hear? The weather’s all screwy? You got a global warming problem? Boo-fucking-hoo! I was telling you morons to turn off your lights and unplug all your shit at night to conserve energy in 19-fuckin’-75, for chrissake. Gee, I wonder what woulda happened if we’d all switched to solar power like I fucking did back when we had a fucking chance to do something about it. Think we’d still be sucking Saudi Arabia’s dick like a five-dollar whore? I sure as fuck didn’t get no fancy Oscar for that little spiel, though, did I? No. But Al Gore, that cum-sucking pig, steals the shit from me and now he’s the greatest thing since Jesus Christ made a fucking sandwich.

    He apparently turned into an angry old man.

  43. 43.

    mr. whipple

    August 25, 2009 at 12:24 am

    “said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.”

    isn’t there a trade law that prevents this type of shit?

  44. 44.

    uila

    August 25, 2009 at 12:24 am

    @Ty Lookwell: We can quibble about when the peak came, and for whom. Krugman sez the real income of the top 0.01% increased by 700% since 1980 – the rest of us, not so much. Right now I’m interested to see how everyone adapts to this new permanent underclass being ushered in under the guise of “jobless recovery”.

    Hey, at least stocks are up!

  45. 45.

    bayville

    August 25, 2009 at 12:27 am

    @General Winfield Stuck

    “”He’s one of the all time greats.” – Business guru Jim Cramer on the financial wizardry of Leonard “Nails” Dykstra.

    With a recommendation like that from one of – if not the best – financial minds in the U.S.A., I’m surprised Obama didn’t seriously consider Nails for the FedChair.

  46. 46.

    Will

    August 25, 2009 at 12:31 am

    @WereBear:

    Exactly.

  47. 47.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 25, 2009 at 12:31 am

    @bayville:

    I’m surprised Obama didn’t seriously consider Nails for the FedChair.

    Them snooty bankers would have to think twice about saying no to a guy named “nails”/ I would think.

  48. 48.

    Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)

    August 25, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Can we start shooting them?
    Not the Chinese, as they’re merely taking advantage of our stupidity, but the ‘free trade’ enablers in the USA.

    The Chinese are merely acting in their nation’s best interests, but whose best interests are the clowns allowing this shit to occur acting in?

    To paraphrase a somewhat well known wingnut: ‘rope, tree, free trader. Some assembly required’.

  49. 49.

    bayville

    August 25, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Them snooty bankers would have to think twice about saying no to a guy named “nails”/ I would think.

    The only drawback would be he’d need an interpreter who can speak Mumbleese.

  50. 50.

    jl

    August 25, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Conservation would be the quickest, cheapest way to produce some savings in energy costs. Three is a book out that suggested a crash training program, which would get builders and contractors up to speed and be a way of funneling money to strapped public community colleges and technical schools.

    It was an un-American idea, I guess, and too controversial to implement.

  51. 51.

    KG

    August 25, 2009 at 12:44 am

    @1: in a just world, it would end with an unfair business practices/anti-trust law suit.

  52. 52.

    Anne Laurie

    August 25, 2009 at 12:55 am

    @BP in MN:

    If the government is subsidizing the production and then the companies are selling in the US below cost because the Chinese markets are flooded, then there’s a WTO case…

    … which we can’t afford to start, because the Permanent Kleptocrat Party have spent the last 30-plus years trading “our” IOUs to China in return for underpriced manufactured crap. Sure, we’ve hollowed out America’s manufacturing base while giving up our vaunted techological edge, but hey! Walmart’s stock has gone up like the rockets we used to make, and Sam Walton’s immediate family has a GDP to match your average mid-sized nation!

  53. 53.

    jwb

    August 25, 2009 at 1:10 am

    @Anne Laurie: Yes! Chinese: “What, you don’t want us to dump solar panels? Ok, then, we’ll just sell some of that $80 gazillion in treasury bonds we own and see how well you like serious inflation to go with that jobless recovery.”

  54. 54.

    The Main Gauche of Mild Reason

    August 25, 2009 at 1:31 am

    @jwb:

    Ok, then, we’ll just sell some of that $80 gazillion in treasury bonds we own and see how well you like serious inflation to go with that jobless recovery

    You forget how weird China is. They’re depending pretty heavily on demand in the US to rise again to return to their normal growth rate. I doubt the solar company has the full faith of the Chinese government behind it, so I doubt anything drastic like that would happen.

  55. 55.

    bhagamu

    August 25, 2009 at 1:53 am

    @El Cid:

    Isn’t this referred to as “dumping”? And isn’t it also prohibited by the WTO?

  56. 56.

    ChrisB

    August 25, 2009 at 2:21 am

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    I know you’re snarking but China does have a strange growth strategy. “We will make tons of money on exports and then use that money to buy more U.S. debt.” Talk about a crappy long time investment.

    That’s what Lucent did before losing 96% of its stock price.

    That’s like washing down a Hardee’s Thickburger with a diet Coke.

    I’ve done that. With fries.

  57. 57.

    Surabaya Stew

    August 25, 2009 at 2:30 am

    Chinese companies have already played a leading role in pushing down the price of solar panels by almost half over the last year. Shi Zhengrong, the chief executive and founder of China’s biggest solar panel manufacturer, Suntech Power Holdings, said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.

    Err, its not so simple! You see, Chinese solar firms are cheating when they are building these low cost systems; with disastrous results for average Chinese citizens…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html

    Basically, these corrupt toads are dumping the toxic by-products of silicon refinement onto the fields of local farmers. Not a good long term bet this is…

  58. 58.

    Warren Terra

    August 25, 2009 at 4:04 am

    @ Josefina, #34
    Yeah, oil shale makes perfect sense as long as we’re at $100 a barrel and don’t give a goddamn about the incredible water use, water pollution, and carbon emissions required to get it.

  59. 59.

    Fulcanelli

    August 25, 2009 at 5:10 am

    The faster we go , the rounder we get Mr. Cole

  60. 60.

    Paulie Chestnuts

    August 25, 2009 at 6:24 am

    I remember EPI’s Jared Bernstein (IIRC one of Obama’s economic advisors) on an interview sometime last year mentioned that if the gov’t would charge oil companies the money that they AGREED TO PAY for drilling rights over the past decade on federal lands, that would quite the chunk of change.

    Somehow I can see the prez getting hassled by the free-marketers/keep-the-gubmint-outta-business for this, even though the contracts are probably cut and dry.

  61. 61.

    PeakVT

    August 25, 2009 at 7:05 am

    @malraux: He apparently turned into an angry old man.

    And who could blame him?

  62. 62.

    asiangrrlMN

    August 25, 2009 at 8:00 am

    Cole, as you know, I am a big fan of your website in general, and this Magic 8-Ball shtick is making me love it even harder. Keep it up!

  63. 63.

    El Cid

    August 25, 2009 at 8:03 am

    @bhagamu: It is usually called dumping when complaints are brought, and the WTO does indeed have mechanisms to allow private companies and nations to pursue actions against it.

  64. 64.

    T. O'Hara

    August 25, 2009 at 8:06 am

    Checking my magic eight-ball, I think what would fix this is deregulating the oil industry more . . .

    Self-described Obama administration smart guys load giveaways into the stimulus bill, and then are surprised when the Chinese try to cash in? Were they surprised when the Japanese cashed in on the clunkers program?

    More customers trading in vehicles under the Cash for Clunkers program bought cars from Toyota than any other manufacturer, according to new government statistics.

    Maybe if they stop giving away taxpayers’ money?

  65. 65.

    someguy

    August 25, 2009 at 9:26 am

    Excellent – we keep our lavish lifestyle at the expense of Chinese sweatshop labor.

    Mmmm… Capitalism. Yummy globalist capitalism. Is there any problem it can’t solve?

  66. 66.

    Bob

    August 25, 2009 at 9:50 am

    “…is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.”

    That is called dumping. It is also illegal.

    Can’t anyone enforce some sort of sane trade policy for the USA? Japan puts up trade barriers to American cars and China dumps solar panels and we sit on our hands. Why is this defended by “free-traders”?

  67. 67.

    Bob (Not B.O.B.)

    August 25, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Name fixed to limit associations with other B.O.B.’s

  68. 68.

    Throwin Stones

    August 25, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Alligator!
    Wasn’t that Hunter’s first official contribution?

  69. 69.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 25, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    @jl:

    The USA is on the edge of becoming a declining industry. The filthy rich and corrupt plutocrats who run the country do not care.

    Anybody who has done a little bit of reading about the economic development of the late-Victorian/Edwardian British Empire has seen this movie before. “Free” trade, global imperialism which benefits mostly a small well connected few in the home country, financialization of the economy as the FIRE sector grows, falling behind industrial competitors who develop cutting edge technologies behind their own tarrif barriers (back then it was electricity, chemicals and optics in the USA and Germany), and pauperization of the bottom 1/3 or so of the population.

    With luck we’ll avoid the really big war when it all falls apart bit. I really don’t want to live thru a do-over of 1914, this time with nukes and biotech.

    On the other hand it wasn’t all bad back then – it would be kind of fun to relive the pre-Raphaelite movement in art – the cognitive dissoance of paintings showing religious themes and morally uplifting allegories with hot babes in suggestive poses was kind of interesting. I think Americans could get behind the idea of Bible-porn with supermodels.

  70. 70.

    ksmiami

    August 25, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    If you want better government in the US, then we simply need the Republican party to disappear since they are frikkin nuts and do not contribute a damn thing. The Chinese have highly effective (and ruthless) centralized controls and so when they decide to put an economic program in place like cap and trade, or new energy policies, underground wireless and more, they just do it. We are too burdened by a 2 party system and gridlock and a dumb population who doesn’t understand what “promote the general welfare” means anymore.

  71. 71.

    tootiredoftheright

    August 25, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    “Were they surprised when the Japanese cashed in on the clunkers program?

    ”

    Most of those cars were built in the US about 60-90% of the car parts are built in the US and assembled in the US by American workers, sold by American workers at American owned auto dealerships.

  72. 72.

    slippy

    August 25, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    @mr. whipple: Trade laws: how quaint!

  73. 73.

    RememberNovember

    August 25, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    China is following that great Capitalist, Michael Dell- saturate the market with mediocre goods, take a hit on the margin to retain a fatter market share and brand identity.

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