Bloggers are supposed to hate Matt Bai, but I can’t remember why. I generally like his pieces and this one is no exception:
For all the shouting that has dominated these town hall meetings on health care lately, they have yielded a few important insights. The first is that the town hall itself has probably reached the end of its usefulness in the Internet age; if you’re looking for thoughtful dialogue, you might as well hold your next meeting on the stern of a Somali pirate ship. The second is that we now have a visual sense of the kind of voter who is militantly opposed to Obama’s health care agenda and, more broadly, to the president himself.
The typical anti-Obama activist tends to be white, male and — perhaps most significant — advanced in age. A poll conducted earlier this month by CNN and Opinion Research showed a rather stark age divide when it came to health care: 57 percent of voters under 50 said they favored the outlines of a Democratic plan, but that number was a full 20 points lower among voters over 65. In three Pew Research Center polls going back to April, senior citizens consistently gave Obama’s job performance lower approval ratings than did than any other age group.
[….]The good news for Obama and his party, of course, is that they still enjoy an enviable level of support among voters just breaking into the work force and among those now drifting into middle age. And that means that if reigning Democrats can manage to get health care policy right this time, and maybe even add some fundamental energy reforms, they might still be able to cement more hopeful attitudes about government for generations to come, much as Roosevelt did in his day. Today’s younger voters might never be as party-affiliated as their grandparents were, but neither may they turn out to be as cynical about their leaders as their parents often seem to be. If the president has his way (which is to say, if the worst nightmares of Republicans come to pass), those voters may someday live out their retirements in Arizona or Nevada, spinning stories for their grandchildren of the days when Barack Obama was twice elected president, when government managed once again to make things better instead of worse and when politicians still bothered with these things called town halls.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: a solid health care bill combined with a solid immigration reform bill would drive a stake through the heart of the Republican party. That’s one of the reasons it’s going to be difficult to pass these bills. There may be a short-term political price to pay. But ask yourself this: in the 2020 election, which will people think about more, their current access to health care or what Obama’s approval rating was in 2009?
(Does everyone else hate the title “The Way We Live Now” as much as I do? Why does the Times use this annoying, boomerist, Newsweek magazine-style title for a series of mostly intelligent pieces.)
tc125231
Amen, brother. Let’s hope the Democrats and Obama wake up and get it in time.
R-Jud
What bugs me about “The Way We Live Now” is the fact that it’s the title of an Anthony Trollope novel, and I have spent waaaaay too much lifespan trying to figure out if and how the NYT is referencing it.
Augustine
They use that title because everybody is immediately conversant and thoroughly familiar with Trollope, doncha know.
Darius
Even more importantly, once these bills are passed, and the socialist dystopia predicted by Republicans fails to develop, the American people might just realize that the GOP is full of shit.
Tsulagi
Yep, which currently drives the Party of Word Salad’s tactical and stratergeric thinking and action. Country First.
But then their opposition is the Party of Sternly Worded Submissives so where we land on the Fucked scale is a tossup.
Mr Furious
That depends on today’s Democrat (pol) giving a shit what people think about Congress in twenty years instead of bagging $400,000 from the insurance industry NOW.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Augustine: They use that title because everybody is immediately conversant and thoroughly familiar with Trollope, doncha know.
Indeed, or at least I cake on the makeup like a Trollope – which is good news for John McCain. Also.
a solid health care bill combined with a solid immigration reform bill would drive a stake through the heart of the Republican party.
Indeedy. I made my weekly call to teh Blue Dog congresscritter to remind his staffers (and hopefully himself) that it’s not 1994 and it’s OK not to cower from Newt Gingrich anymore.
Quaker in a Basement
Why does the Times use this annoying, boomerist, Newsweek magazine-style title for a series of mostly intelligent pieces.
Because the Times is created by and for annoying, self-revering boomerist journalists.
Next.
Trinity
Janus Daniels
Of course everybody is immediately conversant and thoroughly familiar with Trollope, except for those too rightly ashamed to admit the contrary.
Possibly Trollope’s best novel, “The Way We Live Now” describes, in large part, the depravity and depredations of the obscenely rich, in era of rampant corruption, and how even the good seem forced to compromise themselves.
The NYT has the problem of not writing up to their title.
R-Jud
@Augustine:
Yes. Growing up in the Poconos, I was frequently subjected to the verbal abuse, bad driving, and humiliating condescension of NYC tourists, but it was all right, because I knew they were all my intellectual betters by dint of their deep and thorough appreciation of late 19th-Century literature.
aimai
Uh…well, I did just re-read “Phineas Redux” and spent the summer watching “The Pallisers” on vid with my children. Didn’t everyone?
But seriously, Matt Bai is an asshole most of the time. If you “like his stuff” you may have him confused with his palindromic alter ego Matt Taibbi.
But this is true–and everyone but the democrats (see, e.g. blue dogs) seem to grasp it. My brother observed it before the election when I worried that we wouldn’t convert enough republicans to win the damn presidency. He said “I don’t believe in conversion narratives…but if the dems get in and give us national health care we will have built democratic majorities as far as the eye can see with all the new voters…” Go big or go home. No bad bill.
aimai
Dave L
They’re certainly referencing the Trollope novel; here’s a capsule description of it:
…At the centre of the story is Augustus Melmotte, a European-born city financier, whose origins are as mysterious as his business dealings. Trollope describes him as ‘something in the city’, but the “something” part is not always clear. Within weeks of arriving in London, he announces a new company and promises instant fortune to those who join him in this scheme. Melmotte is surrounded by a circle of decadent aristos, scheming widows and nouveau riche businessmen, all trying to get a piece of the financial pie.
David Atkins
Absolutely right. Why Democrats can’t see the niceties of the moment and understand that a good healthcare bill, energy bill and immigration bill will lead to decades of Democratic dominance is beyond me.
20-30 years from now, no one will care who any of these Senators/Reps were. They WILL care about the legislation, and which party brought it to them.
joes527
@Trinity:
The republicans who will do anything to block health care reform because it succeeding would .. you know … make republicans look bad, are evil personified.
Any democrat whose interest in health care reform is that it is a bat that can be used to beat republicans into a bloody pulp is no better.
I guess I’m old fashioned. I sort of think that health care reform should be about health care and reform.
Unless the dems get their shit together, we are at real risk of moving forward into a world where “Health Reform” passes, and is comprised of mandates, subsidies and tax cuts for the insurance companies. That would be a victory for the democratic party, but considerably worse than nothing for the american people.
DougJ
But seriously, Matt Bai is an asshole most of the time. If you “like his stuff” you may have him confused with his palindromic alter ego Matt Taibbi.
No, I agree he’s an asshole but he’s written a lot of good pieces. I don’t think being an asshole and being a good reporter are mutually exclusive. In fact, quite the opposite may be true.
DougJ
Any democrat whose interest in health care reform is that it is a bat that can be used to beat republicans into a bloody pulp is no better.
Spare me.
Punchy
Fizz’icksed.
By the way, is the birther movement officially dead? Havent seen Oily Taint on my TV for quite some time….
El Cid
If you haven’t encountered social historian (I think at Evergreen State U) Stephanie Coontz’ incredible works dragging the real history of American family life from the icy grip of the culture war maniac nostalgics and fearmongers — “The Way We Never Were” and “The Way We Really Are” — then her work will be a great discovery for anyone interested.
And that’s what the cited title reminded *me* of.
Zifnab
I’d like to point out that Canada passed universal coverage, and their progressive party continues to be a reflection of the comical ineptness of our current Dem Party.
Passing universal health care won’t put a stake through anything. The GOP will turn it into a cottage industry of bitching and moaning and wailing over how Mighty America has fallen. Medicare didn’t kill Nixon. A balanced budget didn’t kill Bush. And this won’t kill Future President Eric Cantor.
But it will make life more bearable twenty years from now, when we’re all asking ourselves why we elected a guy so he could go out and invade Somalia for a decade in the name of glorious freedom.
NutellaonToast
“And that means that if reigning Democrats can manage to get health care policy right this time, and maybe even add some fundamental energy reforms, they might still be able to cement more hopeful attitudes about government for generations to come, much as Roosevelt did in his day.”
People over 65 were born in 1944 or earlier. Who was president then?
Subtraction fail.
jenniebee
Why does the Times use this annoying, boomerist, Newsweek magazine-style title for a series of mostly intelligent pieces.
It’s a reference to a Trollope novel that was cutting social criticism when it was written and there’s a lot in it that resonates today. It revolves around society’s celebration of a Madoff-like financial genius and the pump-and-dump stock swindle he puts together that’s supposed to make everybody rich but, of course, doesn’t.
Trollope was mostly complaining about how the aristocracy’s gambling and profligate spending was making them money-hungry enough to open the doors to arrivistes, corruption, and the end of the great days when a squire took care of his land and his community and everybody was happy.
R-Jud
@El Cid:
Thanks El Cid, I’m adding it to the giant list o’ books to read.
jenniebee
@Dave L: @Augustine: @R-Jud:
What’s puzzling to me about the recent interest in The Way We Live Now is that it’s only possible to think that it really applies to our current situation is if you have no more than the barest superficial understanding of the book, the financial crisis, or (preferably) both.
Trollope, from page 1 to page 643 never. stops. pushing. the idea that the reason his people found themselves in the problems they were in was because the aristocracy had failed in their self-control and had spent money wastefully. That’s the entire reason that Melmotte is able to do what he does. Melmotte may be the exciting devil who dominates the narrative, but the story’s real dichotomy is between Sir Felix Carbury and his cousin Roger Carbury. Roger is self-controlled to the point that not only does he never go into debt, but when the woman he loves marries someone else, he invites the couple to come live with him on his estate and be his heirs. Sir Felix, by way of contrast, takes the last money his mother can scrape together for him so that he can pay the expenses to elope with an heiress, takes the cash to his club instead, gambles and drinks it all away in one night and then goes and spends the night with his mistress, leaving the heiress to sit alone at the train station.
Multiply that out into a Dickens-length novel, and you have The Way We Live Now.
Fleem
DougJ,
Aren’t you just agreeing with Bill Kristol? Be careful, he’s always wrong.
… And thanks for getting that TH song stuck in my head.
noncarborundum
@Augustine:
I know I’m at least conversant enough with Trollope to get the joke that the collective term for a group of prostitutes is “a volume of Trollope’s” (though I prefer “an anthology of pros”).
Trinity
@joes527: I agree with you joes. I think health care reform should be about people and focused on compassion. However, if those who need to pass it do so because they want to win then in this case I say let them go to it. Just get it fucking done.
If compassion was enough to motivate our Congress I’d be all for it. Cynically, I think compassion won’t motivate our congress critters as fast as a swift kick in the ass will.
C’est la vie.
Makewi
Comprehensive health care reform won’t pass because old people are against it, and those trying to push it though are inept and corrupt. I do like how it is shaping up that old people are going to be the next demographic to have “greedy” affixed to their names by you jokers.
Davis X. Machina
If Dickens a.) watched a lot of C-Span, and b.) had fewer issues with women, he’d maybe be as good as Trollope.
Steeplejack
@noncarborundum:
I like “a jam of tarts.”
latts
@NutellaonToast:
Um, it has nothing to do with who was president when they were born; it has to do with who was president when they became politically active. A good number of Gen-Xers were born during LBJ’s presidency, but their significant political influence was Ronald Reagan, and IIRC it’s been an unusually Republican cohort even when young (myself excepted, of course). It makes sense– the prevailing political attitudes of young adulthood are what shape our worldview for many years.
latts
@NutellaonToast:
Um, it has nothing to do with who was president when they were born; it has to do with who was president when they became politically active. A good number of Gen-Xers were born during LBJ’s presidency, but their significant political influence was Ronald Reagan, and IIRC it’s been an unusually Republican cohort even when young (myself excepted, of course). It makes sense– the prevailing political attitudes of young adulthood are what shape our worldview for many years.
joes527
@Trinity: There are different ways to characterize the thing, and bringing together folks with different motivations to get the job done is certainly reasonable, even commendable.
If there were actually a bill that we were talking about, then I would be much more comfortable rallying EVERYONE behind it, but from the looks of things, we won’t even know what “it” is until it comes out of conference. The only thing the I can point at that is certain is that “it” won’t be single payer.
Fine. There are plenty of other flavours of good. But there are also plenty of flavours of bad.
While the bill-to-be-named-later is still in play, the motivations of those who are shaping what it will end up being are very important. Folks who see this as a chance to grind republcans into the dirt are more likely to push for a bill that grinds republicans into the dirt than a bill that improves healthcare in america.
We don’t have time for that kind of shit.
It can be argued that all democrats have motives that are pure as the driven snow. (and no I don’t have a counter example) But your original post sure made it sound like the Clinton era folks in the WH are looking at this as an opportunity for cheap triumphalism.
latts
I only hit the submit button once, I swear.
Dustin
@ joes527
And is there any particular reason why we can’t both want meaningful healthcare reform and see it used to beat the bloody shit out of the obstructionist GOP? These bastards have it coming for everything they’ve done and everything my generation is going to have to cleanup because of their fucking binge party that was the last 30 years. I for one would gladly wield the bat.
Robert
“The typical anti-Obama activist tends to be white, male and — perhaps most significant — advanced in age.”
Hey, I resemble that grouping.
But that description needs additional traits to be accurate. White, male,advanced in age, hardened fists and crazed bugged out eye balls.
Let’s not lump all us geezers in with the bitters.
R-Jud
@Steeplejack: I was going to reply to jenniebee @24 and agree with Davis X. Machina but then I read “a jam of tarts” and spit tea all over my desk.
Well played, sir (or madam, but probably sir).
PattyK
My daughter, with a number of years to go before qualifying for Medicare, thinks elderly voters are playing with fire on this. She asks why she should pay taxes to provide health care for people who don’t want her to enjoy the same benefits they do. Perhaps if these angry old white males understood that many other young voters might start asking the same question, they might rethink their position.
Joshua
Wow. So people who are already on a government run health care plan don’t want it for anyone else.
I didn’t realize people over 65 were such assholes.
Trinity
@Dustin: Agreed.
@joes527: See reference above. He articulated my thoughts better than I.
NutellaonToast
@latts:
I have been hearing about the right wing slant of the over 65 set since I was sentient. Tell me, are the over 75 set strongly pro healthcare? the over 85?
someguy
I think it’s important that we keep a good attitude about government and all the wonderful things it does for us. Like Katrina relief, domestic spying, a couple senseless wars, bailing out Goldman-Sachs and AIG, blowing up aspirin factories and religious nut compounds, institutionalizing the moral values of the President in government policies, dope raids on the wrong house, um…
Hey wait a minute…
I mean, I know Obama is jesus-like except he looks cooler smoking Newports than the hirsute Jewish carpenter/philosopher ever could-but c’mon. Government is frickin’ dismal. It’s only better because it beats the alternative. Don’t kid yourself about health care and cap & trade and all this other stuff. It’s still going to blow ass. It’s just going to blow ass in a different way than Republican christocorporate oligarchy blows ass. My money is on it blowing ass in a big government/big business handshake kind of way.
tamied
@Dustin: Hear Hear!
Makewi
@someguy:
Why do you hate sick people?
kay
I was very liberal very young, more conservative later, and now I’m back to liberal.
I did all that while remaining a registered Democrat, and it was never a real conflict. It’s a pretty big tent, and I’m not a single issue voter.
I can’t imagine how far right you have to be to vote for a national Republican, or even, in my state, a state-level Republican.
It’s safe to say I’m not venturing way the hell out there anytime soon.
joes527
@Dustin:
None at all. As long as the priorities are in order, then this is all good.
I’m just noting that there is a universe of difference between
“We are going to pass meaningful healthcare reform and that success is going to push the GOP farther into the wilderness”
and
“We are going to pass a healthcare bill that pushes the GOP farther into the wilderness”
And while the content of the bill is still undetermined, this distinction is critical.
Actually, I sort of abstractly wish the GOP well. I don’t think that an unchallenged democratic party is good for anyone, not even the democrats. (look at how quickly the Permanent Republican Majority destroyed the GOP) But I always get stuck on” “If just X were the head of the GOP, s/he would lead them out of the wilderness.” Whenever I think I have found a reasonable value for X that usually just means that they are going to be apologising to Rush within a week.
someguy
@ Makewi – I don’t hate sick people. I hate everybody. That includes you, and a lot of times, myself. Get that straight, okay?
Makewi
@someguy:
No one hates cancer children. Except Republicans of course, so you must be an evil repug. Fortunately so many here are just waiting to bash them like baby seals. Which will solve THAT problem.
Wait, no one hates baby seals either. Except Eskimos. Stupid republican child cancer hating, baby seal killing Eskimos.
Augustine
Can we haz a new tag: “Melmotte”?
bob h
I would also offer these observations about the anti-Obama activists: Underachievers in terms of educational attainment, professional accomplishment, and income.
Phaedrus
I will cheer if Obama is able to enact the reforms you want, but his legacy, for me, will always be the guy who allowed war criminals to walk free and solidified bi-partisan support for the suspension of basic civil rights.
Guess it’s a qualified success or a qualified failure depending on whether your a half-full or half-empty kind of person.
If you’re one of the many, many innocent people continuing to be
torturedheld in our prisons I imagine you’re probably going with a half-empty interpretation.Steeplejack
@R-Jud:
Thank you. I am male. (I wonder if there is such a thing as a “steeplejill.”)
Makewi
@bob h:
Useless eaters.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
@Phaedrus:
Softail
I’m just relieved to know I’m not the only one who reads and likes Trollope.
Mike P
Speaking of immigration, if any of you are interested in the topic, here’s the last piece I worked on as a fact checker at San Francisco magazine this summer. It’s about Indian engineers leaving Silicon Valley because of restrictive visa policies.
“Home is Where the Brain Is”
Phaedrus
@Bob
Not sure what you’re waiting for, Obama has had ample chances to change things and has indicated his desire to follow the previous administration almost every time. Black cites, indefinite detention… long list – currently he’s defying a court order to release a prisoner who, after 7 years of torture, we still haven’t the slightest indication that he anything other than a regular guy like you or me.
Ça Boum
Boomerist? Does that mean the people who dis the boomers are bad, as in racist, sexist? Or is the boomer herself not up to snuff*, as in, say, elitist or poujadist?
* old boomerist figure of speech.
ksmiami
No – The Republicans have really screwed everything up – the party must die out and something else better should come along. Besides, there is enough intellectual policy fighting among the Dems right now to keep things honest. Besides, in my short life, it seems that every time a Republican is elected, a kitten dies and the government becomes a wreck.
Laura Clawson
I don’t know if I’m supposed to hate Bai, but my lord, I certainly do. Though at least this excerpt doesn’t seem to have his habits that characteristically drive me nuts.