While I agree that it was best for Van Jones to step down (and, no, I don’t blame the netroots or CAP or anyone else for not standing up for him more), this is such unbelievable bullsh*t (from Joe Klein, natch):
Anyway, Jones: He has, in recent years, done some valuable work trying to steer green jobs into poor communities…but there is a bright line in American political life: Self-proclaimed “communists” need not apply. Communism is too odious and foolish a philosophy for anyone reasonable to believe in, or even to use as red-flag hyperbole, as Jones did after the Rodney King riots of the early 1990s, when he said that he’d been a [black] nationalist, but was now a communist. It’s sort of like a Republican President appointing someone who had said, “I used to be a white supremacist, but now I’m a Nazi.”
So, good riddance. The work of this presidency is too important to be side-tracked by a too-angry blowhard spouting foolish radicalism. The American people voted to give liberalism a chance in the 2008 elections, after 30 years of conservative dominance. If the liberal project is to succeed, it needs to build trust in a populace that–as we’ve seen this summer–can easily be manipulated by right-wing demagogues. That means the President’s personal small-c conservatism is an absolute necessity. It also means that left-extremists have to be clearly rejected. It also means that, even with a Democratic Congress, major policy changes like health care reform have to be implemented carefully–incrementally, if necessary. If the first steps are solid, the pace of reform can pick up over time. There will be missteps along the way; there are in any Administration. A Van Jones or two will slip through the cracks and be given jobs. But if the President can keep his eyes on the prize–at the moment, the moral imperative to provide health care for all Americans–he will probably succeed.
It’s worth noting that the “godfather of neoconservatism”, Irving Kristol, began as a Trotskyite and that many of today’s neonconservatives, whom Joe regards as such serious people, began on the far left (whether they were Trotskyites or Shachtmanites, per se, seems to be a subject of debate). But they’re not black and they hate Arabs a lot, so they’re okay.
I realize that it’s not worth my, or your, time to refute all the garbage that Joe Klein says. But I think that his piece above is typical of the Village obsession with the Black Panthers and Weathermen of yesteryear; Klein doesn’t directly reference this, but it’s pretty clear that’s where the “left-wing extremist” fetish comes from. Since there is no mandatory retirement age for pundits, we will probably be stuck with this for at least another 20 years. But I’m hopeful, that by the year 2030, our public dialog will no longer be dominated by discussion of the 1960s.
Just Some Fuckhead
What Joe Klein says here sounds reasonable to me.
Corner Stone
Sooo…Van Jones disses R’s and gets bussed. But Obama’s speechwriter Favreau disses SoS Clinton and goes on to be one of the highest paid members of Obama’s staff.
Interesting.
Darius
But I’m hopeful, that by the year 2030, our public dialog will no longer be dominated by the discussion of 1960s.
1960s? Try 1950s – Klein’s coming dangerously close to endorsing McCarthyism here.
DougJ
@Corner Stone.
PUMA alert!
JK
Andrew Breitbart is still pissed off that the MSM ignored pursue the Van Jones story
“The American mainstream media – ABC, NBC, CBS, the New York Times, the Washington Post, Time, Newsweek, et al – must be held to account for sitting on the sidelines as this major story kept building without them, went viral on YouTube, and then became so large that a key appointee of President Obama was forced to step down… Instead, talk-radio host Glenn Beck and Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit, as well as Breitbart.tv editors Scott Baker and Liz Stephans, led the charge forcing the mainstream media’s hand while the usually reliable George Soros-funded “netroots” media defense mechanism couldn’t fend off the growing body of charges”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/07/breitbart-couric-should-look-in-mirror
Corner Stone
@DougJ: Call me what you like. Just find it interesting that no one – at any level – is making a fuss about Van Jones getting canned because the right wingers demanded it.
Who else was clamoring for his head?
And as for PUMA – I supported HRC and think she’s a good representative of our government abroad. (Oh wait! did I say ‘a broad’!?)
Not really thrilled with how Obama’s doing his thing but you can not find even one comment here at BJ where I said anything like, “HRC would’ve been doing so-and-so better!”
So stuff your sorry’s in a sack mister.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-VP8wnFwo8
cleek
they have been. now STFU about it, concern troll.
aimai
Yes, this makes so much sense. I do hope that Klein is calling for that Congressman who applauded the “right wing terrorist” in his town meeting to be dumped. Why is it hyperbole for thee and insane, fringe, political beliefs for me? To advocate, especially hyperbolically, for Communism is not to advocate any kind of forbidden love. Its certainly not synonymous with Pol Pot’s or Stalin’s crimes if that is what Klein is implying. Any more than advocating for American Democracy is advocating for Bush’s bombing of Iraqi civilians.
aimai
JackieBinAZ
No, Pat Buchanan was actually taken seriously as a contender to be the party’s candidate.
JK
Mickey Kaus asks
Does the NYT Know What a Truther Is?
http://slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfiles/archive/2009/09/06/van-jones-does-the-nyt-know-what-a-truther-is.aspx
Keith
Jeez, talk about fighting last generation’s battles. I can’t believe it’s 2009, and people are *still* on TV ranting and raving about the impending threats of socialism and communism.
c u n d gulag
aimai,
It’s ok to be insane if you’re a Republican.
Joe, with your message of slow incrementalism, Obama might just be getting ready to get past his first poll tax and get ready to vote – let alone be President.
Aimai, what you should have done at that party was stick a white hot coal down Kleins shorts. I’m not sure it would have found anything important, or even functioning, but maybe he’d understand how hot we are at stupid, inane bullshit like his.
Wile E. Quixote
@Corner Stone
Yes, shitting on PUMAs is inconsequential because they’re human garbage and everyone hates them. The Republicans don’t want them because they’re DFHs, the Democrats don’t want them because they’re treacherous, back-stabbing swine and even if Hillary Clinton ran as a third party candidate in 2012 and won with their support she’d probably stage a Night of the Long Knives to rid herself of them as soon as she possibly could, for aesthetic as well as political reasons.
JK
Doug,
What do think about the sequel to the Van Jones episode as outlined below? Who’s going to win the next round Beck or Olbermann?
Glenn Beck Tweet “FIND EVERYTHING YOU CAN ON CASS SUNSTEIN, MARK LLOYD AND CAROL BROWNER.”
http://washingtonindependent.com/57912/glenn-becks-next-target-cass-sunstein
Send Me Everything You Can Find About Glenn Beck by Keith Olbermann
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/6/777880/-Send-Me-Everything-You-Can-Find-About-Glenn-Beck
asiangrrlMN
FUCK YOU, JOE KLEIN. God damn fuck it on a stick I can’t stomach this shit any longer. Left-wing “extremists” need to be rejected because pussy-assed rightwingnutters get their panties twisted in a bunch over an islofascistblackmotherfuckin’Hitlerlovin’arugulaeatin’ president to the point where they (the apeshitcrazynutters) can spew their venom about death panels, Obama’s birth certificate, and whatever other rancid fantasies dance like decaying prunes in their heads as they sleep and maybe elicit a mild, “now, now” from the so-called fucking librul media, if even that?
FUCK YOU, JOE KLEIN! You can take your incremental bullshit and shove it so far up your ass, it vomits through your nose.
gnomedad
If you’ve converted to winger ideology, being a former radical leftist is a feature, not a bug. See also David Whorowitz.
If you used to be a commie because you’re nucking futz, that’s okay. If you did it out of misplaced but genuine concern for the unfortunate, you’re a loser.
asiangrrlMN
@Wile E. Quixote: Wow. I need a ciggie after that one. Nice. Very nice.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Hahahahahaaaaaa!
Um, NO.
The 1960s and the DFHs are far too useful for far too many important people to just fade away like that.
Thus the clear and present danger posed by Dirty Fncking Hippies will still dominate our politics in 2273 when Mars colony import substitution and tariff policy is teh hawt topic of the day.
Why, you ask?
Because DFHs are the greatest threat to civilization evah! They are Attila the Hun, the Mongol hordes, the Turks at the gates of Vienna, and unruly elite chinese youth protesting in Tiananmen Square all rolled up into one giant smelly unwashed Mary Jane smoking package, with loud music to boot. There can be no surrender to this sort of hooliganism. We shall fight [them] on the beaches, we shall fight [them] on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall nevah surrendahhh!
slag
The title of this post says it all.
Personally, I want all of my political leaders to come only from hermetically-sealed privileged environs where they’re bred specifically for the task of perpetuating the aristocracy. Then, we’ll know that nothing they’ve ever said and no one they’ve ever associated with will be used against them. Van Jones just couldn’t measure up in that respect.
gizmo
I could live with Van Jones being marginalized if the same standards applied to the Right. Our media culture is quick to jump all over anyone who exhibits leftist tendencies, but hands a get-out-of-jail-free to every rightwing nitwit.
Steve T.
“Well, I was young and stupid once, but I got over it.”
It’s amazing that just as the internet makes your every written thought both permanent and searchable, people are no longer able to get away with saying that. Growing and learning and becoming wiser than you once were is now a weapon that can destroy your career.
If consistency from the git-go is going to be essential, how about we demand that people irrevocably choose their college major when they’re six?
DougJ
I could live with Van Jones being marginalized if the same standards applied to the Right. Our media culture is quick to jump all over anyone who exhibits leftist tendencies, but hands a get-out-of-jail-free to every rightwing nitwit.
This is how I feel too. I’d rather not marginalize people for having had beliefs that are far outside the mainstream, but if we have to do it, it should apply to Republicans as well.
DougJ
What do think about the sequel to the Van Jones episode as outlined below? Who’s going to win the next round Beck or Olbermann?
Neither. I don’t think Beck’s anti-czar jihad is going anywhere.
I do say this, not as a concern troll, but because I believe it: if I were a Republican, I would be very, very worried about anything that brings Glenn Beck more prominence.
Corner Stone
@Wile E. Quixote: Not really my point. I knew the use of that example would be problematic but I thought it illustrated a stark continuum. Let’s not let this be about HRC or PUMA or other distractions. Van Jones did what wrong exactly?
Point being – who’s demanding Van Jones leave? What does his departure serve?
Think they’ll stop? Think they’ll be appeased? Think they’ll be placated?
What’s so wrong with what Jones did that he can’t be fought for? Is he doing a good job? Is he competent? Did he get caught stealing or embezzling?
The whole thing stinks to me. Just don’t see what he did wrong that he’s now forced out because Beck went on a jihad against him.
Tony J
Shorter Klein –
“This is still a centre-right country, so the only way for Democrats to win elections is to position themselves ever so slightly to the left of wherever the Republicans are, while picking fights with Teh Left at any opportunity. Otherwise the electorate will rightly punish us for our un-American extremism.”
In other words, Concern troll of the worst kind.
Church Lady
Doug, I’m trying to understand your point here. If “it was best for Van Jones to step down”, why is what Joe Klein said such “unbelieveable bullsh*t”? I’m being serious here, not just trying to yank your chain. Forget the “Republicans are assholes” stuff – I don’t think anyone really cared about that faux outrage. Don’t you think a self-avowed communist (whatever he meant by that) and black nationalist, one that signed a “Truther” petition and was listed as an organizer to a San Francisco “Truther” protest rally, serving in a Presidential administration might just make an awful lot of the electorate, on both sides of the aisle, just a tad uncomfortable? There’s a reason that Obama threw Rev. Wright under the bus during the campaign – finge doesn’t equal good politics.
PeakVT
It also means that, even with a Democratic Congress, major policy changes like health care reform have to be implemented carefully—incrementally, if necessary. If the first steps are solid, the pace of reform can pick up over time.
Joke Line can kiss my left-extremist ass. How much more incremental could the move towards universal health care get than what we’ve had over the past 63 years?
Comrade Jake
@Corner Stone:
Please Google “Samantha Power Monster” and get back to us. Mmmkay? Kay.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@DougJ:
Just parsing that sentence makes my head hurt and demonstrates how ideologically incoherent our politics have become. Weren’t the Bolsheviks the leading ‘anti-czar’ group? ‘Jihad’ is an Arabic term for struggle, is it not? And yet if you closely follow our contemporary political/media scene both of those terms fit perfectly in describing Beck and his performance art.
Future historians are going to pass over our era with great sighs of despair at trying to get students to be able to make any sense of it all. We make the Byzantine Empire look like a model of clarity by comparison.
Comrade Jake
The idea that what someone said as clear hyperbole would be sufficient to get them tossed out of an admin is complete bullshit. Klein mailed that one in. I think he’s still pissed about the aimai pwnage.
As for Van Jones, he made the call to step down. If you don’t believe it was his call and the admin pressured him, they clearly did so because the story threatened to distract from the health care debate/address. I hate that the admin doesn’t have better judo when it comes to dealing with the insatiable/idiotic media, but such is life.
vacuumslayer
Erm… Comparing communists to Nazis. I’m calling “foul.”
JenJen
@DougJ: Well, that explains a bit from the previous thread, so thank you for that.
Corner Stone
@JenJen: Ummm…I can only infer this is tangentially about me?
I can’t criticize Obama without being the devil herself? So, the next time Cole posts one of his “This Admin has Failed” posts we can say what exactly?
Sorry if I read this wrong.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Jake: I’m not interested in going back through the primaries, thank you. At the point in time I referred to, the SoS was on board with President Obama, in a Democrat Admin. Nothing happened. Yet right wingers demand a scalp and they get?
DougJ
Don’t you think a self-avowed communist (whatever he meant by that) and black nationalist, one that signed a “Truther” petition and was listed as an organizer to a San Francisco “Truther” protest rally, serving in a Presidential administration might just make an awful lot of the electorate, on both sides of the aisle, just a tad uncomfortable?
Yes, and that’s why I think he was right to step down. What I dislike is Joe’s McCarthyite fixation with past flirtations with communism and his inability to distinguish ideology from job performance.
To wit, Jack Kemp’s love of supply side economics is every bit as loony (maybe more loony) than communism. But he did a great job at HUD and, were he still alive, I’d have zero problem with Obama putting him in charge of HUD again.
To cite another example, I can see why Trent Lott was forced out after he made those comments about Strom Thurmond’s presidential campaign. But I think that was bs, too — his comments weren’t that far outside the mainstream of Republicanism, to the extent that he even meant anything beyond drunkenly praising Strom Thurmond. And hindsight being 20-20, I think it would have been better for everyone if he had stayed on as majority leader, given what a disaster Frist was.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Jake:
True, Van Jones is worse than getting straight up death paneled!
de stijl
Jones didn’t need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
JK
OT
Ed Morrissey has a new line of attack against Obama’s speech to students
“I’ve run the speech through a word frequency counter and found the following results:
56 iterations of “I”
19 iterations of “school”
10 iterations of “education”
8 iterations of “responsibility”
7 iterations of “country”
5 iterations each of “parents”, “teachers”
3 iterations of “nation”
In other words, Barack Obama referenced himself more than school, education, responsibility, country/nation, parents, and teachers combined. And to think that people accused Obama of self-promotion”
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/07/obama-school-speech-released
Skepticat
“The work of this presidency is too important to be side-tracked by a too-angry blowhard spouting foolish radicalism.”
So why did they give in to the angry blowhard Beck?
JenJen
@de stijl:
FTW. In fact, one of the biggest wins in Balloon Juice history.
JGabriel
@cleek:
They were rejected back in the 70’s. The insistence for the past 30 that the far left has been active factor in domestic politics is nothing but a smear at this point.
.
Quaker in a Basement
I’m so confused. ‘Wingers tell us ex-commies have no place in politics. So why have they embraced Crazy Davey Horowitz all these years?
Corner Stone
@Corner Stone: And yes, I typed “Democrat” Admin. I shorthand a lot of things, don’t find anything ugly about this one no matter what the RW’s true to gin up, and certainly didn’t mean anything by it.
JGabriel
The insistence for the past 30 years …
Sigh. Please to return editing soon?
.
JenJen
@Corner Stone: It’s just that all of my friends who are concern-trolling the President to death happen to be people who supported Clinton during the primaries. Those were bitter wars and I don’t want to revisit them; doing so would be utterly non-productive and pointless.
Of course you’re allowed to criticize the President without me knee-jerking and stereotyping you. I apologize for that; it’s wrong of me to do that. But I would like to see those of us on the left calm down a little and stop with the freaking out over speculative news stories. And, you know, unite a little, because we all want the same thing.
tim
“While I agree that it was best for Van Jones to step down…”
what the fuck is wrong with you, DougJ? Whose fucking side are you on?
So called Libs like you with no backbone or sense of proportion and an endless willingness to bend to the slightest hissy fit thrown by the right wing make me sick to my stomach.
“Dems” like you with your mealy mouthed, let’s all get along, naive attitudes and unwillingness to play hardball with the right wing and to defend our own to the last, are as much to blame for the ongoing BO admin fuckup as anyone else.
Disgusting post.
Church Lady
@DougJ: Fair points. Thank you.
JGabriel
DougJ:
I can’t see how have a majority leader who was just as extreme as Frist – if not more so – but competent, would have been better. And that’s assuming that Lott would have been more competent. Given the shift towards right-wing extremism and authoritarianism that occurred during the Bush years, I find it hard to believe that Lott wouldn’t have fallen in line to be just as corrupt and incompetent as Frist and the rest of the GOP.
.
Church Lady
@tim: DougJ “mealymouthed”? Hahahahahahah. Dude, how long have you been reading this blog?
Sorry, man, the “BO admin fuckup” is all on them.
DougJ
I can’t see how have a majority leader who was just as extreme as Frist – if not more so – but competent, would have been better.
I think he would have defended the Senate’s prerogatives better. The Senate is supposed to be an independent body (it is taking its obstructionist tendencies too far right now, but it is supposed to be deliberative). The untold tragedy of the Bush administration is how much Congress failed to act independently.
Corner Stone
@JenJen: Alright.
I just disagree with DougJ’s attempt to put a little box around legitimate criticisms for his own reasons.
And I’m not concern trolling anyone, even though that’s the easy way to ride somebody’s post down without having to refute it. Notice that DougJ didn’t say anything to suggest why someone criticizing a D got a pass but someone going after R’s is OK to step down and go away.
Yeah, I supported HRC but after the election you will not be able to find any post of mine where I said anything vis a vis HRC and BHO. Can’t find it cuz I never said it.
My opinions now are based on evaluating an easily seen track record of 8 months, and what I can predict (IMO) moving forward based on that.
Politics isn’t complicated. I’d wager that 90%+ is pure Occam’s Razor – someone voted for a bill? It had jobs for their peeps. Voted against? It damaged someone they pay attention to. Can’t figure out why someone is doing something? Look at what they want or need.
That’s what mystifies me about a lot of the people who continue to say, “Just wait. Angels dancing on the head of a pin will make this all better.”
Where’s the evidence of that? Almost everything we’ve seen to date has been disappointing to a large chunk of left-of-center voters.
I’m just saying we need to fight to get them back on a course they were elected to do, and not delude ourselves about what motivates them.
The old trope about “Make me do it” hasn’t been working too well so far, mainly because of all the breathing room they’ve been given for no good reason.
It’s too easy to go along with what DougJ infers. I’m not about putting any politician on a pedestal, and nothing I’ve ever posted would confirm that. I want good outcomes for people, not corporations or Big Money or The Village, etc.
DougJ
@CL
Thanks.
TC
Church Lady, I agree with your points. And if DougJ wants to make a real analogy, he should consider what would happened if it had been shown that Jack Kemp had once said, “I started out as a white nationalist. By September, I considered myself a fascist.” Or defending whoever the rightwing equivalent of Mumia is. You just can’t imagine he’d have lasted the week.
And it’s one thing for Horowitz or Irving Kristol to be former communists, now rightwingers. But we never saw them appointed to government positions.
Comrade Jake
@Corner Stone:
Don’t be an ass. Look, I would have absolutely preferred the admin extend one giant middle finger to the right on this, and said as much before Van Jones stepped down. There was nothing to the charges brought against him IMO, zero. But the fact of the matter is the admin was being forced to defend the guy over the truther nonsense, and I can understand how the position was untenable heading into this week. That doesn’t mean I like it, I just understand it.
Quaker in a Basement
And it’s one thing for Horowitz or Irving Kristol to be former communists, now rightwingers. But we never saw them appointed to government positions.
So ex-commies are OK in some contexts but not others? I wonder what property separates acceptable from non-acceptable roles.
Leelee for Obama
My name is Leelee, and I am a Lefty. I have always been a Lefty. Not to say communist or even, completely, s o c i a l i s t. But I lean far enough Left to bump hips with some of those folks. I would love to live to see the day that someone like Bernie Sanders actually had a shot at the Presidency, but I know that is never gonna happen. Do I agree with taking things slowly, yes. We have been working on universal health care for US workers since 1912. That, folks, is way too slow. Do I understand that the Left will never get all that it wants? Yes, and why? Because most Americans don’t think that poor people, even the ones who work their asses off, are working as hard as they do. Whether they learned that from their parents or their teachers or their Party isn’t relevant. They feel it in their bones. They earned their SS check, but the single Mom didn’t earn her Food Stamps, that’s charity. They earned their Medicare, or were smart enough to get health care from a job, but the Medicaid family is on the dole. What I hope for, everyday, is for the government to do what’s right, in whatever way they can to side-step these troglodytes, and make the common good more common and more good. Obama is a pragmatist, with Liberal leanings and a rhetorical style to rival Lincoln. He’s doing well, and I’m not gonna beat him up when he tries to bring some of the opposition on board. If nothing else, he’s helping them avoid Purgatory.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Jake:
Well, I am in fact an ass. But in this one specific case I was ripping off a brilliant comment by another BJ commenter who said something like, “Now we know how Obama offed his grandmother. Straight up Death Panel!”
It was a while ago so I don’t know who to give props to, and it was hella funny at the time so I vowed to steal it and use it as my own whenever and wherever I could.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Jake:
And also, this just isn’t true. The Admin wasn’t “forced” to do anything. That was the whole point of my poor choice of examples. They are excellent at ignoring pressure or criticism when they choose to. There is absolutely no way anything different would’ve happened if they had kept VJ in place.
Do you think Obama would’ve given a HC speech the American public felt in synch with their life, but changed their tune because some low level staffer is still selling green jobs? Nuh uh.
They’ve proven very well they can ignore who they choose, for as long as they choose, without adverse effect. But giving them VJ’s head? It reminds me of the John Edwards campaign when that Catholic nutjob demanded he fire his web outreach team and JE did it. I wrote his ass off right then. What’s so different about this? What makes anyone think they’ll stop or give the Admin time to regroup and push a positive message? Now they’ve vindicated the demand for VJ to go.
Well, he’s gone hasn’t he? Isn’t that proof that the Obama Admin is harboring Communists? How many more are there? To the walls Wolverines!
JenJen
@Corner Stone: I have to admit that “Angels on the head of a pin” raises the hair on my back, going back to the primaries. I know, I know. Big speeches can’t change minds. The whole thing is a fairy tale. There is no evidence this President is accomplished. The base is pissed off and so it’s over, he’s broken the Rovian Rule.
See, this is pretty much why I refuse to belong to any kind of “base.” Maybe I don’t pay as close attention as you do, and obviously, as others do. But from where I’m standing, the President looks good to me. I approved of the stimulus; I would’ve liked to have seen a lot more money, but he and the Democratic Congress passed it, on their own. And green jobs stayed in, when all the bloggers were saying it had been traded away.
There is no longer a ban on stem cell research. Federal funding of abstinence-only education is out. S-CHIP expansion (vetoed by Bush) is law. These were big priorities to me, and they were met. And we’re only eight months in. Health care was always going to be the hardest, and August kicked the President in the ass. There is no denying that. But I’m not willing to throw in the towel on this guy, yet. I realize there are plenty of people who I agree with on just about everything who think I’m giving him too much credit, that my thinking is magical. They might be right about that, in the end.
I’m not there yet. I’m dug in.
Corner Stone
@JenJen:
Oh man. You’re a werewolf? I am totally bummed.
My stepmom is from Novelty, OH which I think is outside of Cleveland.
I was thinking one day I would meet a good old fashioned Heartland American OH Girl, and follow in the footsteps of dear old dad.
I am a base D, and 2nd Amendment aside most likely the most liberal D on this FSM forsaken blog.
Midnight Marauder
@JK:
That is the pettiest, most inane shit I’ve read in a good 6 hours.
Comrade Jake
@Corner Stone:
VJ was becoming “a story”. He resigned over the weekend, and he will not be a story tomorrow. Hell the guy is barely a story today, minus the blogs.
For the record it’s also not clear the admin asked him to leave: VJ made the call based on what he was seeing. The admin may not have protested at all, but I think you’re being way too harsh on the wrong people here.
JHF
One of the greatest modern mysteries is how the historical context of the 60s is usually completely absent from any discussion involving the era. I responded to some typical snarky BS from a young lad on another website thusly:
JenJen
@Corner Stone: That was rather shabbily offensive. But, if it makes you feel better, run with it.
vacuumslayer
@TC: False equivalency. Whether one thinks it’s peachy or not, one should be able to wrap his or her brain around the fact that an oppressed minority might turn to a “power” ideology at some point. There was a reason Malcom X existed. There is no sensical reason for white power to exist. Whites have always had the power. “White power” is redundant.
I have no problem with Black power, in the same way I have no problem with Girl power. Those of us who have traditionally gotten the short of the stick sometimes need a harmless rallying cry.
DougJ
I am a base D, and 2nd Amendment aside most likely the most liberal D on this FSM forsaken blog.
So what? I get tired of the “I’m a real liberal so can stay stupid PUMA stuff about Obama” shtick. I’m not saying you do it all the time, but it annoys me when anyone does it.
licensed to kill time
@JHF:
I thought this the other night when some commenters were asking if things were as crazy during the 60’s. The Vietnam war and the draft had a way of focusing the mind; imminent threat of death will do that. Young men (boys, really) would wake up to the dreaded draft notice; we saw blood and corpses every night on the television; cities burning as rioters rampaged.
As huge as the anti-war protests were for Iraq, if there was a draft right now they would be miniscule in comparison.
It was a wild time to live through.
Corner Stone
@DougJ: But what PUMA stuff? Point to it! I can’t say I’m disappointed in certain decisions? I gotta drink the kool aid?
The point (which was clear to the non-haters) was that actions against D’s have no consequences but actions against R’s is punished.
It’s pretty clear except to those who wish to obfuscate. And I’m not hiding behind any life record or voting record.
I want good outcomes and I’ve fought all my life for them, from the time I was politically aware. Stop trying to box me in when you have no understanding of where I’m coming from (as evidenced from your acceptance that Van had to go for the greater good..or something). I wanted a different outcome then, and I want one now. And I fought then and I’m fighting now.
Why should you get to denigrate me and try to ad hominem your way out of legit critique?
I can’t say Obama isn’t playing the cards I want to see? That’s somehow against democracy?
There ain’t a goddamned thing I’ve said here that is PUMA, ever. The example is of a D and of R’s.
Oh wait…you may threaten to ban me again. I should prolly take it easy Big Man.
Corner Stone
@JenJen: I’m sorry I offended you.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Jake: I just think he was nominal at best, and certainly not a marquee player. Why give him up?
IMO, it doesn’t serve any greater purpose. But I guess it’s all relative.
Leelee for Obama
@JHF: Yeah, being there, or at least getting the drift of how bad it was, makes it easier to grasp. We didn’t hate the Country, but we sure had ill-feeling for the Government. The people on the other side conveniently forgot all the lessons about the First Amendment, holding gov’t accountable, criticism as a act of love. Did some of us go hyperbolic, sure. That’ll happen when you’re putting your 18 yo friends in the ground for real-estate so far away, you couldn’t picture it
The war against teh Hippies is like the abortion fight. The right will drop it when it’s no longer politically advantageous to them.
PurpleGirl
The war against the 1960s and DFHs will never be over… consider that some/many/most wingnuts are still fighting the war of northern aggression.
DougJ
But what PUMA stuff?
The reference to FavreauGate.
Comrade Jake
@Corner Stone:
Your perspective here is that the admin “gave him up” to the right, as though part of an exchange. I don’t think they ever viewed it that way at all. Certainly they don’t expect the right wingnuts to stop screaming as a result.
The fact that VJ was a nominal player doesn’t help your case, quite the contrary. At some point the media distraction of VJ was more than the admin decided he was worth. I don’t necessarily agree that they’d reached that threshold yet, but I think they looked at where things were trending, saw the long weekend, and took the opportunity when it presented itself. Big fucking deal.
Comrade Jake
@DougJ:
Yeah, only the PUMAs got worked up about that.
Silver Owl
Klein would not know communism if it gnawed his peter off. To people like Klein if you’re not beating the holy hell out of people it’s communism. Progress in any direction other than the stone age is communism. The stench of fetid fear and ignorance is enough to choke a person to death.
This era has the most lazy, ignorant, obtuse substandard adults in the public eye. America seriously needs to raise better adults because we have a whole lot of ignorant slop. It’s quite disgusting.
JenJen
@DougJ: And angels dancing on the head of a pin.
@Corner Stone: It’s no skin off my apple. No worries.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Jake: Ok, who’s next? What line you think warrants drawing? Cass Sunstein? Rahm? Some other low level functionary until they get some nice momentum rolling? Then the big players get to take their lumps?
IMO, the fact that VJ wasn’t really a big player makes my argument. Besides some fauxtrage, who really cares that he’s still in the Admin? He’s not a Cabinet level player, doesn’t head some huge org employing 10’s of thousands of peeps, etc.
Personally, just like the TX S&L crisis – this was a test run. They have figured out what they can do and now they have a blueprint.
I don’t expect them to stop here, maybe you do. I guess we’ll just differ on what outcome we would’ve preferred here.
Corner Stone
@JenJen: It was just a joke really. Werewolf? I’m still a little puzzled that was misread but oh well. Or maybe Novelty, OH offends you?
As for the analogy about everyone magically hoping Obama is going to “do the right thing” – I’ll stand by that til proven otherwise.
TC
Vaccuumslayer,
Ok, then, you give me the rightwing equivalent of a black nationalist and then tell me why it’s ok.
But you’re missing the point. It’s the change from one to another, bud. Change from racial nationalist into communism. You can’t just justify the one and leave out the other. Or are you saying it’s ok for someone to embrace communism because they’re an oppressed minority?
TC
Vaccuumslayer,
Ok, then, you give me the rightwing equivalent of a black nationalist and then tell me why it’s ok.
But you’re missing the point. It’s the change from one to another, bud. Change from racial nationalist into communism. You can’t just justify the one and leave out the other. Or are you saying it’s ok for someone to embrace communism because they’re an oppressed minority?
Corner Stone
@DougJ: Honestly, I remember a lot of different perspectives being upset about that going by with no reprimand, and no comment from party leadership. You do realize she was SoS nominee at the time, correct? He was 27 and Director of Speechwriting. Clearly at least as important as Van Jones. What if it had been a cutout of Michelle Obama? Never really understood why he had a cutout or had it at a frat party.
Not sure how it benefitted anyone in the D party to let that be portrayed as ok – but let’s not relive it I guess. Obviously no one will change their mind about it now, and it just gives you an excuse to deflect.
licensed to kill time
@Corner Stone:
I thought it was kinda funny. JenJen doesn’t seem too fazed.
Corner Stone
@licensed to kill time: It wasn’t the “offensive” part that got me. It was the “shabbily”. That’s just cruel.
*Insert blustery crying noises here*
licensed to kill time
oh baby, don’t you weep. Was that a cruel adjective? Nasty old adjective, we’ll make it go away….
Rob
Comment on Free Republic:
“We don’t need advice from a despicable person like Obama. Had HE PAID ATTENTION to proper education, then he wouldn’t be such a failure. Following Obama will lead to losing your soul and being an evil failure while on this earth.”
First time I’ve heard of him described as an uneducated failure.. Jesus H. Christ these people are batty.
Leelee for Obama
@Rob: No, they want him to be Thomas Sowell, or Clarence Thomas. Those are some well-educmacated AAs, obviously, because they are Conservatives. Just as the Baby Jeebus intended. Won’t see them tryin’ to get elected President, no Sir. They’re quite happy where we have let them serve, you betcha. Also.
Josh
Okay. “Communism is too odious and foolish a philosophy for anyone reasonable to believe in.” Which musician did Joe Klein write a celebratory biography of again? Barry Sadler?
Joe
“While I agree that it was best for Van Jones to step down”
then, this sort of bs is going to continue, since it was based on selective McCarthyism that is only ended when some line is drawn in the sand.
Van Jones was some minor position, which did not need to be confirmed by the Senate, and having a voice there who — the horror — is somewhat controversial but has establishment cred (as Gawker underlined by noting someone running for higher office with support of McCain is on record just loving the guy) is what is allowed in any sensible world.
Too unimportant to care about? Show me Dawn Johnsen in office at the OLC, and I’ll care a bit less.
Sloth
Note: the Freeper did not say “uneducated”, he said that Obama had not paid attention to “proper” education.
I think Harvard Law had better look into this, right away.
Joe
PS It was noted that he would make the electorate “uncomfortable.”
Sonia Sotomayor made a chunk of the electorate uncomfortable. President Obama too. The fact is that a large segment of the nation had doubts about the official story of 9/11 and raised questions. He did this five years ago. Now, he can’t have job promoting green jobs. Uh huh.
Trent Lott? A minor official is the same as a leader of the Republicans in the U.S. Senate. Perspective?
Mike G
Will the boomer journalists-for-life please just get the fuck over the sixties already?
We get it, the hippies got laid more than your nerdy selves and you’re still mad about it.
It’s been four decades.
The fuck. Shut it up now.
Jay B.
@Corner Stone:
Jesus Christ, Obama made Hillary Secretary of State. She’s one of the most important people in the world. WHO THE FUCK CARES what happened before that? It seems any and all insults Obama’s speechwriter made were rectified and then some.
But since I’m on the pro-Red side of THIS stupid fucking bout of handwringing — I’m mean fuck, we’re fascists too. AND commies. They already say this shit, who fucking cares if Jones, at one point in his life, followed that path? You’d think if he REALLY was a commie (and I’ve only heard allegations of that, I wouldn’t trust Joe Fucking Klein to know literally anything someone didn’t shovel him — and I certainly wouldn’t trust the word of apes like Beck), Democrats would then decide to POINT OUT THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE — and why the right calls Democrats this every day, so why are they so upset now?
But no. We have to prove how decent and rational we are to people who call us fascist commies all the time and show them that we too can be fact-free red baiting morons.
This will all blow over in a couple of days — and frankly, I hope they find photos of Cass Sunstein with fucking hammer and sickle tattoos because I think he’s a total fucking sell out and would be a terrible Supreme Court Justice, then at least the “decent” people will have a reason to oppose him and defeat him — but like Hillary’s “disgrace” at the hands of the cur Faverau, you KNOW it’ll never fucking die on the left. It’s what we do. It’s how we roll.
jl
A lot of these dudes and dudettes are ex-hippies or fellow-traveler hipsters. Except they matured, never moved beyond a self-centered and self-indulgent 18-year old attitude. Now they are growing old, and would be pathetic if they did not have such control over the public discourse and are stinking it up like a stoned groupie who has been out and about on the streets for a week or so.
jl
Edit: Except they NEVER matured,
Brian
Klein writes
If the liberal project is to succeed, it needs to build trust in a populace that—as we’ve seen this summer—can easily be manipulated by right-wing demagogues.
Ah, the irony.
nicteis
JK @ 38: Cap’n Ed was being more than a tad disingenuous. If he really ran that word counter, he’d have noticed that there were about three times as many instances in the speech of “you”, “your” , “yourself”, as there were of “I”.
From which he’d have been forced to admit that, for Obama, it’s all about the kids.
TC @ 53:
“And it’s one thing for Horowitz or Irving Kristol to be former communists, now rightwingers. But we never saw them appointed to government positions”
Horowitz and Kristol have no need to undergo the uncertainties of waiting to be appointed to government positions, depending on the outcome of elections. The media elite are the permanently installed government. They draw up the center-ever-more-right policy menu, the mere elected officials are only allowed to pick one dish from column A and one from column B.
Admittedly, the Horowitzes and Kristols only define the rightmost column of that menu. But they’re as essential to the overall program of shifting the Overton window as the godlets of the “center” like Brokaw, Friedman, Broder, and Klein.