I thought Obama’s speech was effective.
Certainly, though, the most noteworthy thing about the evening was the childishness of the Republicans. Personally, I thought the low point was when they yelled at Obama about the death panels, but the Joe Wilson outburst seems to be getting the most play:
I’ve never seen anything like this — or like the death panel outburst — before at a presidential address. Though I’m sure Joe Klein or Michael Gerson will remind us that a Black Panther snuck in and heckled Nixon in 1972.
There is no question, at this point, that the defining feature of today’s politics is the complete craziness of the Republican party. I think it’s time to start finding ways around the filibuster. Forty nuts from a party of lunatics should not be allowed to obstruct what is, whether one agrees with it or not, a serious Democratic agenda.
John S
This is what Yglesias has been talking about for weeks now, if not months. The filibuster isn’t law, it’s just procedure, and procedures can always be changed.
JGabriel
You know you’ve been reading too many blogs and seeing too many blogads when, while Obama is preparing to speak, you think, “Start your journey now, my lord.”
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jamfan
I could be wrong, but I suspect Republicans inadvertently bought Obama some public goodwill to charge ahead and leave them behind. Even the best of them looked like my five-year-old when he wants Doritos for dinner and he gets grilled chicken. The contrast with the Grown-Up-in-Chief was particularly stark tonight; they were amassed, as a group, where they could have made some kind of impression as a reasonable alternative to the ruling party, and they just failed.
skippy
lbj had my lai, obama has “you lie!”
freelancer
Could have been worse. Could have been worse. They looked like petulant children but they could have started doing this too.
JK
“Though I’m sure Joe Klein or Michael Gerson will remind us that a Black Panther snuck in and heckled Nixon in 1972.”
I’m sure wankertarians Megan McArdle and Glenn Reynolds will do the same thing as well.
I wonder if Andy Card, who complained about Obama disrespecting the presidency by not wearing a tie in the Oval Office, will tell the MSM that Joe Wilson was disrepecting the presidency.
Wilson should be forced to deliver his apology on the floor of the House. A written apology is bullshit.
jwb
@jamfan: I sincerely hope you are right but somehow the GOP never seems to have to suffer any consequences for bad behavior.
John Cole
How about they make them actually filibuster?
JK
I didn’t watch any post game analysis after Obama finished his speech.
Did any of the pundits on tv criticize Wilson’s pathetic behavior?
General Winfield Stuck
@John S:
The Senate is chocked full of procedures that can effectively shut down Senate business. Do away with the filibuster and there are a hundred ways for the other side to retaliate.
There is one sensible rule change that would mitigate some a party that lives only to block any dem bill, and that is to make the requirement that the minority get 40 votes to sustain it’s own filibuster, instead of making the majority get 60 votes.
But any change in senate rules take a 2/3 majority, and that;’s not likely to happen, and someday dems may (will) be in the minority and it would be wingnuts running amuck needing only 50 votes, plus a GOP VP to break the tie.
Jonah
The oddest feeling about the Joe Wilson thing was that it played into my worst expectations. I had this absurd idea that a President speaking in the Halls of Congress wasn’t going to turn into a teabagger style shoutdown, but I started to wonder that even the setting of a Presidential speech wasn’t sacred enough for Republicans to trash. Were the town hall yellers really part and parcel of the Republican party, or was there some distance between the rabble and the elected officials? Rep. Wilson proved the former. Really sad and pathetic, although I loved Pelosi’s dead-eyed look after the heckling! It looked like she was making plans to kick that representative’s ass (through parliamentary means, of course) once the speech was over.
robertdsc
I wish he would stop attacking the left. It’s stupid and won’t do him any favors come election time.
MikeJ
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/the-myth-of-the-filibuste_n_169117.html
JGabriel
jwb:
Well, the GOP did lose the last two elections. So the Republicans are suffering consequences; they’re just failing to draw the connection.
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jwb
@John Cole: “How about they make them actually filibuster?”
I really don’t understand why the MSM isn’t all over the concept of the full filibuster since it would make for a perfect 24/7 circus spectacle.
The Grand Panjandrum
@John Cole: Republicans would be ready to vote for single payer after 3-4 nights of 2AM quorums calls.
r€nato
I watched Olbermann, he brought it up at least three times but didn’t really go into it much more than that.
bedtimeforbonzo
Joe Wilson is just mad that a dead man outed his wife as a CIA operative.
Max
Olberman, who I was hard on the other day, gets my vote for best comment…
Following the Republican response, he said
Funny.
JK
Allahpundit defends Joe Wilson
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/09/video-gop-congressman-yells-liar-at-obama
h/t to Alan https://balloon-juice.com/?p=26616#comment-1362097
AB
Change the rules so that filibusters require 40 or more senators to be pole dancing at all times on the senate floor while the filibuster is in effect.
… nevermind, I dont want to see that.
jwb
@JGabriel: touche.
BDeevDad
Joe Wilson’s site is down. How are Repubs supposed to run a gov’t when they can’t even run a website.
http://www.joewilson.house.gov/
jaquestraw
I think people may be lying to themselves……..
How H.R. 3200 Allows Coverage for Illegal Aliens: 1. Does Not Require Proof of Citizenship to Obtain Health Services: While Section 246 (page 143) of the bill expressly prohibits illegal aliens from receiving government-run healthcare, the bill does not include a specific requirement that a person prove his or her citizenship in order to obtain affordability credits, which means that illegal aliens could obtain coverage. Section 152 states that “all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services”. This provision has the potential to include illegal immigrants because it may interpret “personal characteristics” to include legal status. (Pages 50-51, 143) 2. Requires That If One Family Member Is Covered, All Members Covered: Another provision states that if one member of a family is afforded coverage all members would have coverage, thereby creating another loophole to give taxpayer-subsidized health care to illegal aliens. If a child of illegal aliens is born in the United States, then the entire family becomes eligible for coverage. Page 133 3. Requires Free Translation Services: Sections 1222 of the bill will provide free translation services and interpreters to those who are not proficient in English. Section 1728 amends SCHIP to provide translation services to children of families and other individuals for whom English is not the primary language. Pages 408-418 and 742
KG
@John Cole: I would love to see an honest to FSM filibuster, rather than the bullshit that’s been threatened lately.
Personally, I love the look on Pelosi’s face when Wilson starts yelling. I’m pretty sure the last time I saw that look was on my mom’s face when I was about 10.
Betsy
@Max:
Wow, I hadn’t heard any of that. Thanks for sharing!
General Winfield Stuck
@JK:
Allahpundit is a big surprise to me. He has been one of the few wingers that I read, but now has lost his fucking mind. Another, AJ Strata has gone even crazier.
JK
WTF was Eric Cantor texting? Did he have something more important to do than listen to Obama’s speech or did he have someplace else he needed to be?
JGabriel
Allahpundit (via JK:
Right. Because it was the teabag protestors who were civil.
So, so, glad I don’t live on Allahpundit’s world.
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Betsy
@KG:
Why do you think the Republicans hate her so much? They didn’t like being rebuked by an older woman then, and they don’t like it now.
Michael Gass
Rep. Joe Wilson has given voice, and the ridicule deserved, to what the GOP has become; petulant children that lie.
He is getting a beating at The State newspaper (based in Columbia, SC) in the comment section.
His challenger is getting funding through ActBlue.
linda
wilson’s really going to regret his behavior; it’s getting alot of attention and people are reacting to it — and the majority are not pleased. hell, it’s blown out his house website.
initially disgusted, i’m thoroughly enjoying his moment in the spotlight.
actually, still disgusted. i mean, i thought cheney’s ‘go fuck yourself’ was the height of republican contempt for the institutions of government. i’m continually amazed by the republican ability to stoop ever lower in their political activities.
arguingwithsignposts
McArgle Bargle was not impressed, as others have noted. She said, and I quote, “this speech pleased no one.”
EPIC FAIL.
arguingwithsignposts
@linda:
Well, Cheney’s remarks were not recorded on tape for the entire nation to see. I really hope Wilson gets his ass reamed for this shit.
JK
@arguingwithsignposts:
Megan McArdle, Glenn Reynolds, Helen Smith, and Nick Gillespie should go galt or gestalt already and stop polluting the Internet with their knuckle dragging stupidity.
bedtimeforbonzo
KG, I noticed that look on Pelosi’s face, too.
I guess it doesn’t matter if you had an Italian mom as I do, but just as long as you have had a mom, to realize that is the look of one pissed-off woman. Good for her.
Forget Wilson for a moment. Did anyone else notice early in the clip the smug clip on Judd Gregg’s face? Or was it a smirk?
I still can’t believe that President Obama wanted Gregg to be in his cabinet.
A Meet the Teachers Night at my son’s school prevented me from seeing the speech, but if this clip is any indication: props to Obama for finally calling Republicans out. I’m glad he did away with the rhetorical flourishes for one night and talked at a level most Americans do every day at home and work.
In the end, Obama’s speech may or may not carry the day on health care.
But I think the boorish behavior by so many Republicans further hurt their brand.
I have to believe most Americans value and respect the of of the President of the United States enough to realize that the GOP gave it the middle finger tonight.
bedtimeforbonzo
Should read:
“I have to believe most Americans value and respect the office of the President of the United States enough to see that the GOP gave it the middle finger tonight.”
N M
@jaquestraw: I dunno buddy. That is, pardon the pun, a pretty liberal reading of the bill. You unfortunately gave it all up with the first sentence:
So you basically undermine everything else you have said in your post, despite raising what you call loopholes or *implicit* coverage for illegal immigrants and I call “provisions that do not provide loopholes due to Section 246 which *explicitly* denies coverage for illegal immigrants.”
As my grade-school English teacher once said, “When in doubt, explicit it out.”
Regular Reader
BDeevDad
Wow, first search suggestion when typing censure into Google is Censure Joe Wilson
TenguPhule
House arrest of all Republicans and Blue Dogs in Congress on the basis that they are violating their oaths of office.
No more problems.
KG
@bedtimeforbonzo: Cuban mom, not Italian. Just a different kind of crazy.
But it really wasn’t what I’d call a pissed off look. I’ve seen plenty of women pissed off in my life. It was more a look of, “did you really just do that, here? are you fucking serious?
IndyLib
@Jonah:
I think she looked like she was making plans to kick his ass Italian grandma style – with a rolling pin.
BombIranForChrist
Man, I agree. I am so frickin’ tired of the filibuster and the secret f’ing holds that any Senator can put on any appointee.
I want to purify the process. Everything is a simple majority vote. If the people don’t like what the majority voted for, they vote them out of office. If they do, the keep them in. Simple.
We need to get rid of the illusion that the Senate is anything but a cesspool of venality, corruption, and cronyism.
Wile E. Quixote
@JK
Given that Cantor is a Republican member of Congress It was probably something like:
bedtimeforbonzo
“Wow, first search suggestion when typing censure into Google is Censure Joe Wilson.”
BDeevDad: Astute of you to Google that.
I bet Democrats are too bipartisan-minded to go there.
I wish my party would stop being pussies.
Elie
I really think that Joe Wilson should be ignored.
I am sure that he was put up to it by the other kindegartners but no matter. They (the sadsadrepublican left behinds), want another issue to hump so that they can whip up their remaining partisans.
Really, why give them that or anything? Who the fawk is Joe Wilson that he even deserves anything beyond a small footnote?
He and his ilk are unable to insult this anymore than a baboon insults any humans observing him by pulling fleas off of his ass. Who would take exception to the baboon? He is just doing what baboons do. Likewise here.
Please let us not flail this — just nothing there worth that attention.
J. Michael Neal
This is particularly true since, if a law can be read in a way that is consistent with all of its constituent elements, that reading must take precedence over any reading in which those parts contradict each other. This means that “personal characteristics” can not be interpreted to mean that illegal immigrants can’t be excluded.
JK
@Wile E. Quixote:
Win LOL
bedtimeforbonzo
JMN: Good to see you around.
J. Michael Neal
@bedtimeforbonzo: Thank you. I’ve been really busy. I’ve actually been really productive writing, and I started grad school this week. Between now and the middle of December, I’ve got ten 3-inch binders of material on SEC Standard Setting and Internal Control to work through, plus papers and two other classes. I don’t have the energy for much BJ these days.
Chad N Freude
@Elie: I disagree. Wilson should be held up as an example of disrespect for the Presidency and the Congress. The boorish behavior should be publicized (spun, if you prefer) as demeaning to his party, and let the party explain why it isn’t demeaning at all.
Elie
Chad N Freude
I can see your point a bit — but doesnt that give them and their widdle boy more attention?
At some level, this is beneath comment or contempt. Its like taking a dump on the floor at a cocktail party… after an initial intake of surprise, people let the help clean it up and try to ignore it — move to another room, pipe up the band and spare elevating if any further…
I think that you are generally correct from a conceptual and formally correct, conscious standpoint. Mine is more gut — a feeling for where this REALLY ranks and a reaction that fits the level of where it ranks — too low to count in ANY way…
Chad N Freude
This comment appears below the incredibly wrong-headed Allahpundit post linked to upthread.
So Obama was calling McCain’s constituents liars. This has to be the most epic misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and missing of a point in modern history. And the commenter knows or takes for granted that Obama was lying. I’d love to know how McCain responds to the commenter’s question. (Remember how taken aback he was by the deranged “He’s an Arab” woman.) Don’t forget, this guy is one of our fellow Americans. Kinda makes ya choke up, don’t it.
Chad N Freude
@Elie: I think the negative attention will hurt them, and the hurt will be in proportion to the amount of attention. I understand your point, but the person who poops at the party should be shunned conspicuously, not quietly, and held up as an exmple of unacceptable behavior.
Jeff Fecke
@J. Michael Neal
Yes, but you see, the bill still extends coverage to illegals by not calling for the execution of all illegals. As long as some illegals are alive, they could scam their way into health coverage by breaking the law, which therefore means the law supports them breaking itself, just as torture prohibitions really mean it’s okay to waterboard someone as long as Dick Cheney wants you to.
Also, Michael Moore is fat.
evie
I can’t believe I’m coming out as a defender of Joe Klein, but to put him in the same sentence as Gerson, saying they are the same, is really short-changing the 40% advocate we have on our side when it comes to health care.
Gerson wrote an op-ed in WaPol today (or yesterday) saying health reform is not a crisis. Klein has been on the reform bus from the beginning.
I really wish our hatred for individuals (and some of their positions) wouldn’t cloud the positive things they say for progressive issues. I have to remind myself of this fact every time I read a MoDo column.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
Wouldn’t you love to see Obama start the next speech to Congress with “Sit down, pay attention and shut up, children” ?
Whispers
So…
the Republicans justify torture because they didn’t behead anybody like Al Qaeda?
And now it’s OK to heckle because the Black Panthers did it?
There really is no leadership left in the Republican party that enforces the notion of decorum anymore, is there?
Whispers
@48
double negatives!
Whispers
Remember how Democrats were (absurdly) taken to task for not behaving with decorum at Paul Wellstone’s funearal?
WELL?????
Zuzu's Petals
I’m using my favorite new tactic: donating to the campaign of Wilson’s opponent, and letting Wilson know why.
This time I think I’ll also donate to the DSCC and DCCC and let the GOP leadership know why. Shame on them.
Dream On
I call Baloney on this. I think Wilson’s outburst was totally planned to take the spotlight of the speech. And the actual content which is a) Bush-style tort reform. b) a meaningless public option or somethin’. c) the BIGGEST GIVEAWAY to the health/disease-care companies in global history.
We’re being played.
dave
The president is not the King. Compared to what the Prime Minister in the UK faces when going before Parliament, this is pretty mild stuff. It probably even helps Obama’s agenda.
JK
@Whispers:
Remember how Andrew Card complained that Obama showed disrepect for the Presidency by coming into the Oval Office without wearing a tie?
Xenos
@jaquestraw: Why should legal immigrants not be eligible for inclusion in any health care program?
The provision you point out appears designed to allow someone with temporary status to accumulate credits that they could use when after changing status to that of permanent resident. For example, someone on a student visa with the right to work can get credits for use once they marry a citizen or return to the US years later after winning a green card lottery or qualifying some other way.
I don’t know if the portrayal of benefits intended for legal immigrants as improper give-aways to illegal immigrants is on purpose here, but it tends to be practice of nativists to smear all immigrants with an accusation of illegality.
gau
It was a rude display on Rep. Wilson’s part. But I couldn’t help but hear some booes back him up. For whatever reason, this reminded me a lot of the British Question Time. Of course, the witty, legitimate opposition was missing. But, if nothing else, I hope President Obama continues with more addresses of this sort. And hopefully, once the Reps get their head on straight, we’ll see more Presidential addresses to Congress where Congress is able to fire back in a formidable fashion. I can’t help but think that a such a dialogue syncs up with the informal, yet earnest debate over the blogosphere writ large. Again, this presupposes a legitimate Republican response…. yeah…
cminus
I’ve never seen anything like this—or like the death panel outburst—before at a presidential address. Though I’m sure Joe Klein or Michael Gerson will remind us that a Black Panther snuck in and heckled Nixon in 1972.
Actually, preliminary results seem to indicate that the Villagers are going to prove that both parties are equally at fault by claiming that those mean, mean, Democrats provoked the Republicans when those Democrats sitting near the Republican minority dared to display support for the President. Dana Milbank:
bob h
“Forty nuts from a party of lunatics should not be allowed to obstruct what is, whether one agrees with it or not, a serious Democratic agenda.”
How does the United States remain a fully contemporary, leading member of the nations of the world with these assclowns calling the shots? The survival of the nation demands that the Republicans go.
Aimai
Oh cmnus at 60 whatever above you are making that milbank quote up, aren’t you????
Aimai
Oh cmnus at 60 whatever above you are making that milbank quote up, aren’t you????
RememberNovember
@JK:
So a US Congressman=Black Panther? Fail!
Obama needs to start bringing more guns to their stick fights, cuz that’s the Chicago way.
cminus
Oh cmnus at 60 whatever above you are making that milbank quote up, aren’t you???
Why should I waste my time parodying Dana Milbank when he’s already descended into self-parody? That’s what he wrote; check the link.
RememberNovember
@arguingwithsignposts:
but he was recorded on mic for calling someone a “major league asshole”.
He should be censured for not following proper Parliamentary Procedure. Roberts Rules of Order ftw!
ploeg
@dave:
Yes, but this wasn’t question time, was it? The format is that Obama delivers a prepared speech, only with minor, polite interruptions, and then a representative of the Republican Party delivered a prepared response to the TV audience without interruption. I grant that you don’t get as much out of this format as you do from a typical question time, but that’s the format. And common civility dictates that you SHUT YOUR GOB UNTIL IT’S YOUR GODDAMN TURN and you can do your rebuttal.
Wag
Joe Wilson
This site is down for maintenance.
Please check back again soon.
Still down as of this AM
Surly Duff
@ cminus
Dana Milbank: And, in truth, there were provocations from the Democratic side. Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.), sitting on the Republican side, insisted on making a victory sign with his hand and waving it at Obama. Rep. Al Green (D-Tex.), also on the GOP side of the aisle, felt the need to pound his fist in the air and make what looked, awkwardly, like a fascist salute.
How do you “pound his fist in the air”? Also, shouldn’t it be assumed that any fascist salute made in a chamber of Congress would be awkward? At least he didn’t try to engage Obama in a Hezbollah fist jab. THAT would have been really awkward.
Complete and utter awesomeness. I wish Milbank could have provided these tidbits or crap in a silk bathrobe using pointless and unfunny puns.
Aaron
My problem is less that he shouted “you lie” as the fact that what he was complaining about is IN WRITING AS BEING FALSE. If he would get his head out of Glenn Beck’s ass maybe he could be bothered to read the part of the House bill that states:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs.
But you know, I am sure the same people that forged the Birth Certificate found a way to go back in time and rewrite the bill to add this little part.
jaquestraw
@ Aaron
Uh Hello they are encouraging anchor babies not to mention identity theft.
jaquestraw
Sorry Aaron that post was for Xenos
Harmonika Savingsbonds
These Republicans NEED a good bitchslap.
binzinerator
@Wile E. Quixote:
Win.
JGabriel
So Dana Milbank has gone from Dick Whisperer to Wanker Trumpet?
No surprise, really.
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