Fell asleep on the couch. Lily woke me up for our bedtime potty, and saw you all needed a new thread.
More Thread
by John Cole| 75 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
by John Cole| 75 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
Fell asleep on the couch. Lily woke me up for our bedtime potty, and saw you all needed a new thread.
Comments are closed.
r€nato
That dude from Louisiana that the GOP put up for the Republican reply to Obama… man, it’s like they weren’t even trying. Can’t we get them to let Bachmann do it? Is there any way of getting Red State on this one?
BR
Every time I talk about the public option from now on, I’m going to use the public university analogy Obama described.
If only we could get some message discipline on it from here on out, we can cement the idea public option = public universities.
salacious crumb
I hope Lilly didnt wanna do potty right after watching Obama’s speech. He can be all eloquent that he wants, but until he doesnt include a robust public option, he remains a liar. He promised in his campaign for a strong public option that would make insurance companies compete with the government plan, and now he doesnt commit to it because a bunch of Republicans and Democrats are pushing him around…it really is disillusioning to me.. he has definitely pushed me towards not voting for him the next time.
cleek
you will be shocked to learn that the whingenuts are convinced that the speech was one of the Most Epicist Failures Ever !
cleek
the GOP thanks you for your vote.
JK
Allahpundit defends Joe Wilson
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/09/video-gop-congressman-yells-liar-at-obama
h/t to Alan https://balloon-juice.com/?p=26616#comment-1362097
DaBomb
@salacious crumb:Keep on ripping up your bodice and tossing your toys. I am sure one day you get your unicorn.
You don’t have a crumb of sense, do you?
mai naem
I don’t know what Obama was willing to draw a line in the sand for…. Yeah, a public option but he’s open to other stuff. Some of the stuff he said sounded like he was for triggers. Usual Obama stuff. Vague with nothing super concrete. Oh, and BTW you don’t see the stuff till after his first term.
DaBomb
@r€nato: He kinda reminded me of a character from Pee-Wee’s Playhouse.
General Winfield Stuck
I guess Obama hit the mark. Big post speech poll jump from CNN/
r€nato
see, you shoulda voted for Nader.
jwb
@cleek: teh stoopid hurtz.
The Grand Panjandrum
@cleek: Whoa. Didn’t see THAT coming. I guess Red State is full of goodies as well. Oh, and I was truly shocked to see John McCain making the rounds. Wow, no one could have known he would get so much airtime tonight.
freelancer
@salacious crumb:
Vote for Palin/Bachmann.
MikeTheZ
I still can’t decide if Obama’s words or the pathetic display by the republican party (texting, shouting, and generally looking like whipped dogs during the speech before sending out another bomb of a rebuttal) will have a bigger effect on people’s views.
The Grand Panjandrum
Nasa released the first photos from the newly refurbished Hubble Space Telescope.
cleek
apparently The Corner has crawled into a hole to die in shame.
arguingwithsignposts
Damn, no posts, now there are three within like 5 minutes. Which one do we go to? I’m so confused!!!11!!
freelancer
Tonight’s speech to me was an inroad to the plausible solution. To the GOS and DU pony-demanders who expected BHO to say Single Payer or Bust, and to the Right Wing circus screaming sockalism, he once again was able to say “I got this”.
DaBomb
@arguingwithsignposts: I directed a message at you on other thread. I can always repost here or you can read go back to the previous open thread and read to enjoy.
freelancer
@arguingwithsignposts:
Hey, how come you didn’t get the Box with the Red X in it?
To clarify my above post, I would LOVE to buy into a single payer system like medicare.
I broke my ankle on 12/17 of last year. I had surgery to repair the fracture (9 screws, a plate and a wire) on 12/23/08. My yearly deductable is $1500, but in the last 60 days, I have been railroaded into paying $2300 in bills for that surgery. My company’s excuse? The surgery took place in 2008, and I’m paying the bill in 2009, so the deductible doesn’t apply. The kicker? I work for a fucking hospital.
I pray for Medicare for all, but I’m a realist. This will get done in baby steps. When I have kids, they might get a pony.
Bad Horse's Filly
You fell asleep?!? Were you unaware that this was a pivitol moment in Obama’s presidency?! That everything was riding on this speech?! This was his Waterloo and you fell asleep on the couch?!?!
And you call yourself a political blogger.
Nite Lily. Nite Tunch.
General Winfield Stuck
From Taegan Goddard over at Political Wire. Something I noticed as well, and telling. Jedi mind trick Obama style/
CalD
What’s with all these sudden attacks of level-headedness? Is the sky no longer falling?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6823158.ece
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/health/policy/09assess.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/why-reform-survived-august
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/why_obama_won_august_really.php
Bad Horse's Filly
@freelancer: I’ve pulled that “I Got This” photo out several times in answer to all the handwringing. Thank you for giving me a new one for my folder.
jaquestraw
How can you defend a lie?
How H.R. 3200 Allows Coverage for Illegal Aliens: 1. Does Not Require Proof of Citizenship to Obtain Health Services: While Section 246 (page 143) of the bill expressly prohibits illegal aliens from receiving government-run healthcare, the bill does not include a specific requirement that a person prove his or her citizenship in order to obtain affordability credits, which means that illegal aliens could obtain coverage. Section 152 states that “all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services”. This provision has the potential to include illegal immigrants because it may interpret “personal characteristics” to include legal status. (Pages 50-51, 143) 2. Requires That If One Family Member Is Covered, All Members Covered: Another provision states that if one member of a family is afforded coverage all members would have coverage, thereby creating another loophole to give taxpayer-subsidized health care to illegal aliens. If a child of illegal aliens is born in the United States, then the entire family becomes eligible for coverage. Page 133 3. Requires Free Translation Services: Sections 1222 of the bill will provide free translation services and interpreters to those who are not proficient in English. Section 1728 amends SCHIP to provide translation services to children of families and other individuals for whom English is not the primary language. Pages 408-418 and 742
JK
Was Obama keeping Eric Cantor from something more important that he had to start texting during the speech?
r€nato
@freelancer: yeah but with Obamacare the government death panel would have turned you into soylent green long ago.
freelancer
@Bad Horse’s Filly:
I got it from Phil Plait, a science blogger and skeptic, who generally is apolitical and one of the nicest guys in blogging, but then snapped a bit in a great post.
Midnight Marauder
Watching Republicans confused as to whether they should stand and applaud various lines was telling. He had them completely off balance.
That’s something I definitely took away from the speech. Besides they fact that they looked broken, bitter, and defeated at numerous points, it also seemed to be hitting them as the speech progressed that the game had changed. They’ve already come out swinging again with the petty gibberish and more people are starting to say “Don’t bring that kool-aid to a grown man’s party.”
I will enjoy this will it last.
arguingwithsignposts
@DaBomb:
which thread? I’m confused at the moment. I’ve got “more thread,” “hardly surprising,” and “speech open thread” open in three separate windows.
bedtimeforbonzo
“Damn, no posts, now there are three within like 5 minutes.”
The posts do seem to be cloning themselves, or something.
And no cuddly animals to go with them.
Our loss.
Midnight Marauder
@jaquestraw:
Oh man, just when I thought this night couldn’t get any better, the crown prince of LOLWUT? comes on the scene.
Did you already pre-order your Rep. Joe Wilson poster from Amazon?
General Winfield Stuck
@jaquestraw:
That’s some impressive wanking sommersaults there pal. You should have stopped at the part saying no illegal aliens can receive coverage. The rest is standard wingnuttery which means it’s some crazy ass shit.
But I applaud your courage for bringing it even after Obama brought the GOP it’s ass on a silver platter tonight.
MikeJ
So the republicans are afraid that Obama’s plan will cover immigrants *and* have death panels? Why isn’t Buchanan demanding passage?
arguingwithsignposts
@freelancer:
Seriously, when does a realist become a pessimist? Because I’m a little bit of both. I have kids, and I don’t want them to have ponies, but dammit, I want them to have the ability to pursue their dreams without worrying about whether they have health insurance (not care) or not.
I remember growing up and my parents had decent health care – I broke my leg and arm and had all the kid problems, and we went to the hospital and those things got fixed pretty easily. NO big deal. Now, it’s a lot of paperwork, bullshit excuses, and reimbursement madness. That’s within the last 40 years.
If we don’t stop this train now, the insurance folks will be much worse in the future. So I’m pleased with O’s speech. I think his heart is in the right place. If we need to take baby steps, then by FSM, let’s take some fucking baby steps, because the shit we’ve got now is killing a lot of people.
Pardon the rant, but I’m fed up. And I have pretty damned good health insurance at the moment. But – unlike McArdle and Reynolds and Limbaugh and the other glibertarians – I realize I could lose it all.
General Winfield Stuck
@MikeJ:
Good point for those who reside on Planet Wingnut.
freelancer
@arguingwithsignposts:
I’m fed up as well. I don’t want to have kids until this shit is settled, though that makes me think of the couple at the beginning of Idiocracy: “We could never have kids right now, not with the market the way it is”. But the fucktards are imploding and Obama is sounding reasonable as hell. Check back with me this time next year and I might be sincerely of the view that we are completely fucked and there is no hope for this country. For now, even conservatives in my life know that health care is fucked as it is, and would applaud any type of reform.
bedtimeforbonzo
DaBomb: I hope you did not take my Jackie Robinson comparison the wrong way. It was meant as a compliment. (There was a time not that long ago baseball was more important to me than real life.)
cleek
it’s just BS copied off a Reps website. damn troll can’t even think for himself.
DaBomb
@arguingwithsignposts: #
This is my summarization of how the Joe “You lie” Wilson part of the speech went down:
Obama had a look on his face like “I WISH this fool would jump up at me.”
Biden was shaking his head like “Uh oh, shit’s ‘bout to go down now,” and Pelosi was looking at him like “Hold up. I know he di’ent. I just know he di’ent.”
Boehner and Cantor were looking like “Damn when’s this shit gonna be over?” during the whole speech and Michelle Obama was side eyeing people left and right like “Yeah, bitches, knuckle up.”
Stolen idea from another blog. Funniest shit ever!
Mark S.
All in all, I’m pretty happy with the speech. I was worried it was going to be a bunch of wet kisses to Baucus, but it wasn’t. The Republicans looked like a bunch of jackasses.
@jaquestraw:
Free translation service? Christ, get a life.
DaBomb
@bedtimeforbonzo: No I didn’t. I agreed with you. No offense taken.
JK
@DaBomb:
From what I could see, Cantor was texting. I guess he had something more important to do than listen to a speech being delivered by the President of the United States.
freelancer
@brachiator
Maddow noted that Woo-loving NICAM-creating jackass Tom Harkin was stepping in as chairman of Health committee. Ugh.
Steeplejack
There seems to be a bit of a thread logjam right now, so I’ll take this as an open thread and post here.
I just cracked the wrapper on, and am now listening to, my new copy of the Beatles’ remastered Revolver. After a lot of dithering, I decided to go with that one instead of Rubber Soul as my first one for analysis and testing, largely because of an exchange with MikeJ on last night’s open thread. I realized I can practically play Rubber Soul in my head verbatim, and when I got to looking at Revolver at the store tonight I realized (a) I haven’t listened to it in a hell of a long time and (b), holy shnikeys, it’s got a lot of great songs on it.
Suffice it to say the Fab Four had me all over again at the opening riff of “Taxman” (which has been sampled by everyone from Beck to the Spice Girls). “Eleanor Rigby,” “Here, There and Everywhere,” “Good Day Sunshine,” “And Your Bird Can Sing,” “Got to Get You into My Life”–and that’s not even half the album.
Brachiator
@The Grand Panjandrum:
I have a reply to one of your posts in the big Speech Open thread (sorry, I don’t know how to back reference posts in other threads)
JK
@Steeplejack:
After Obama’s speech, I watched Part 3 of the Beatles Anthology on VH1 instead of watching the wanker pundits analyze Obama’s performance.
I love the Rolling Stones, the Who, Pink Floyd, and the Grateful Dead with an intense passion. There are about 40 other bands that I love to a slightly lesser degree. But for as long as I live, the Beatles will always be the Mount Everest of rock bands in my opinion.
IndyLib
@freelancer:
I love the pic at the bottom of the page.
gbear
@JK:
So did you run out and buy any of the Beatle reissues today? What do you think of the Mono Box listing for $300?
freelancer
@IndyLib:
as a bonus, Vanderleun showed up on that thread, so I felt compelled to rub his nose in his own infamy-laden shit.
Brachiator
@Steeplejack:
“And Your Bird Can Sing”
Pure pop fun in 2:04, and somehow it fits the sunshine and swagger of Obama’s speech today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgfRFvkrZQ
freelancer
and #dickwhisperer has his own “terrorist fist jab?-moment”. He just doesn’t know it yet.
JK
@Brachiator:
Thanks for your reply in the 400 plus comment thread about the speech noting that you heard conservative radio hosts denounce Joe Wilson’s heckling. I don’t how big an audience the show you listened to attracts, but I’m certain none of the A-list rt wing radio hosts Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Mark Levin, Michael Savage, or Laura Ingraham will denounce Wilson’s behavior. I expect all of them to give Wilson a big pat on the back.
gbear
I’m unemployed, so I limit my spending to absolute necessities.
JK
@Brachiator:
And Your Bird Can Sing – one of my favorite lesser known Beatle songs.
Comrade Mary
@Steeplejack (and any other music or Beatles lovers): you must make the time for Howard Goodall’s show on the musical technique behind their work, including their assimilation of western classical tropes. Really, it’s just fascinating. Part 1 (in playlist sequence, which will load up all the other parts in turn) is here.
Even more approachable and glorious musical theory from Goodall is here.
Wile E. Quixote
@freelancer
Write a letter to your state’s insurance commissioner, your two Senators and your representatives explaining how your insurance company is trying to fuck you and cc the insurance company. They might back down. Also feel free to stall as long as you like. I’ve had more than one mortgage broker tell me that no one gives a shit about late payments for medical care on your credit rating because everyone knows what utter bullshit medical billing is. I don’t know whether or not this really is true but it’s telling that despite 6,000 dollars in unpaid medical bills (due to fuckups between the hospital and the insurance company) I was still able to refinance my house back in 2005.
Aside from that I hope your leg is getting better, I remember reading your post about this back then and wincing in sympathy. I used to think that broken legs weren’t that serious until I had an orthopedic surgeon explain that the leg bones are the strongest bones in the body, and that it takes an amazing amount of force to break them.
Wile E. Quixote
@Steeplejack
How does it compare to the already existing Beatles CDs?
freelancer
@Wile E. Quixote:
Part of the increased cost was my delay in paying the bills. They are already paid, I’m just amazed that I was able to juggle $2300 to insurance and still not fall behind on my other bills on what I make. As far as the leg itself, it only acts up when we get T-storms or stiff in really cold weather. I’m a 27 year old kid with a 60 year old ankle now, but I did spend an hour at the gym on a recumbent, listening to O’s speech and it’s not hurting. My arms are in more pain than that for the weights I’ve been doing.
Thanks for your concern, and to everyone else here, for all intents and purposes, I’ve recovered from this injury and wasn’t looking to have a pity party. I just wanted to point out how in my situation a simple surgery can make shit completely absurd. Part of my job entails billing our OR cases, so I feel completely ridiculous expressing this woe is me sentiment when I see the impact we have on families who’s family members are having Open Heart surgery or Liver or Kidney Transplants.
Delia
@cleek:
Hey, this guy represents Yorba Linda. That’s the same area that family values Assemblyman represented, the one who just resigned for b[url=http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/duvall_resigns_after_sex_bragging.php?ref=fpb]bragging about his hot sex into a live mic[/url]
gbear
@JK:
Ouch. Sorry to hear that. Hope you’re getting by OK.
I couldn’t resist temptation and bought the whole stereo box today. Serious credit card damage. Bought the last one that the Electric Fetus had in stock. First disc I listened to was Beatler For Sale (Beatles 65 was the first Beatle album I owned so I’m partial to that period). Second one was Rubber Soul just because I haven’t listened to that record for a long time. Revolver and Sgt. Pepper will be the next two. With all the hype about radically better sound, I was surprised by how much they sound like the old recordings, with more immediacy. It’s much easier to imagine The Beatles in the studio creating the songs.
JK
@gbear:
Just getting by. OK is further down the road.
It’s great to see so many people still care about the Beatles after all these years. Besides not having seen the Beatles in concert, my other regret is that they never got to perform live versions of Strawberry Fields, A Day in the Life, I Am the Walrus, and Tomorrow Never Knows.
Brachiator
@JK:
I was listening on AM 640 KFI, which carries Rush and is the most popular talk radio station in the Los Angeles area. Oddly enough, the biggest local hosts on the station are not hardcore wingnuts, and draw a bigger audience than Limbaugh. Levin and Savage and Ingraham are relegated to far less popular stations further down the dial (I have no idea if Beck has a radio presence here).
I agree that Wilson will get a big pat on the back, but it is not unanimous, and the GOP is in the position of now alienating some of their own even as they keep up their attacks on Obama.
gbear
@Wile E. Quixote:
The new mastering seems to clarify things quite a bit. It’s easier to pick out just what’s going on instrument to instrument. If you’re listening in the car it will sound just like your memory says it should. The mixes are the same and the differences are subtle.
The big differences are to be found if you go with the mono recordings, which can be quite a bit different than the stereo versions. Apparently The Beatles were involved in the mono mixes but left the stereo versions to George Martin, so the purists feel that the mono versions were closer to the band’s original intent. They were also mixed to sound a little hotter on AM radio.
I was tempted to go with the mono versions, but the mono box costs $60 more and has four fewer discs. It’s the choice for hipsters, but it’s already sold out until November and it seemed unfair that it should cost so much more.
gbear
I think there’s a good reason for that…
Brachiator
@Comrade Mary:
I will check this out (have done with similar stuff in the past), but I’ve found that some of this misses some more immediate sources of their musical style. For example, the Beatles’ assimilation of American pop (esp Buddy Holly and Motown) traditions, and British music hall traditions. And the construction of their songs, via producer George Martin, owe as much to British comedy (Spike Milligan and the Goon Show) as to anything else, bringing in aural puns and musical sound effects.
mai naem
Why do the wingers go whacky on the illegal alien thing but also don’t want a national I.D,? I don’t like the idea of national I.D’s but you cannot seriously expect people to carry around their proof of citizenship around with them. Furthermore I don’t really want people looking for my I.D. to check my citizenship when I am having a medical emergency. For some odd reason I would rather have them paying attention to my medical condition.
JK
@gbear:
I should have clarified my previous statement. I wish that the Beatles had reunited for a few concerts in the late 1970’s. I think by the late 1970’s, technology was suffiently advanced over the late 1960’s, that the Beatles could have performed technically respectable versions of Strawberry Fields, A Day in the Life, I Am the Walrus, and Tomorrow Never Knows in concert.
wasabi gasp
Obama looked refreshed and ready to go in his new Summer tan.
Steeplejack
@Wile E. Quixote (and others):
Sorry to be so late getting back to the thread. I was late getting home from work tonight, so my whole routine got pushed back. I quickly scanned the latest Balloon Juice threads and made my previous comment, and then somehow I got hypnotized into watching Max Payne on HBO. Jeezy-creezy, that movie sucks and blows. There’s two hours gone forever. But I digress.
To overlap a bit with what I said last night, the remasters live up to all the hype. The existing Beatles CDs all date from about 1990, and they were long overdue for revision. The best I can describe it is that the new versions sound really real, in the best possible sense. The old stuff on the early albums sounds very clean and very tight, with no frills added. The mixes sound faithful to the originals without making you feel like you’re listening on a cheap record player in your parents’ basement or on a cheap transistor radio (the two primary original delivery mechanisms).
The later, more complex stuff sounds really deep, in the sense that you feel like you are hearing everything and that nothing is suddenly getting pushed to the background because something else needs to be highlighted in some limited aural space. That “space” now feels greatly expanded. I am basing my impressions not only on Revolver but on a two-disc sampler of the whole collection that the store was playing all day. As I said last night, “Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite” was a particular mini-revelation.
(Also adapted from last night:) As for mono vs. stereo, I would go with the stereo boxed set–if you can find it (our store and all the neighboring stores quickly sold out)–because only the first three or four albums were originally done (solely) in mono, and then the Beatles and George Martin started pushing the envelope.
I respectfully disagree with gbear’s statement that “apparently the Beatles were involved in the mono mixes but left the stereo versions to George Martin.” I don’t think the discussion was ever “Let’s keep this clean, simple and mono” or “Let George [Martin] figure it out.” Even on Revolver there is a lot of deliberate left-right channel separation that you can’t attribute solely to George Martin’s whims, and by the time of Sergeant Pepper the Beatles and Martin were throwing in everything but the kitchen sink and accomplishing impossible things in the studio. Plus the idea of preferring a mono version of Sergeant Pepper (or anything after that) just makes me want to punch someone in the neck. Yeah, there are individual songs where the mono mix sounds (slightly) better than the stereo mix, but at that point you’re in the realm of biblical scholars arguing about the nuances of a single word in the original Aramaic. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)
@JK:
[. . .] the Beatles will always be the Mount Everest of rock bands in my opinion.
No argument here. I was thinking about it today, and I believe they are the equivalent of Shakespeare in popular music. I don’t demand that everyone like them, or even recognize their greatness, but they permeate the atmosphere so completely that even people who “hate the Beatles” listen to a lot of artists who draw on their legacy every day. You can’t escape their influence. They changed the language.
Finally, the best discussion I had today was with a guy who was buying Please Please Me (the first album). He said he is a professional drummer, and I asked him what he thought about Ringo, because some coworkers and I had been joking earlier about Ringo being the luckiest drummer in the history of pop music (with me maintaining that, while that is true, he was still a good drummer).
Anyway, this drummer guy said Ringo was great, and that his particular genius was that: (a) he kept rock-solid time, so when the Beatles were splicing and resplicing pieces from many different takes into one final version of a song the tempos almost always matched with metronomic precision; (b) Ringo was able to play in a lot of different styles and modes to complement the wildly varied evolution of the band’s music; and (c) Ringo made a tremendous contribution by working successfully in a mostly ego-free way around two (possibly three) of the biggest musical egos ever.
Okay, I’m spent. I just hope I haven’t left this too late and someone reads it.
Steeplejack
@Brachiator:
Thanks for that clip. One thing that has struck me tonight about Revolver is how much great guitar work there is in it. And it’s not just, “Ooh, time for me solo.” It’s all over the place. “And Your Bird Can Sing” is a particularly good example.
Steeplejack
@Comrade Mary:
I have read stuff about Goodall’s program but never actually seen it, so thanks for this link. It will go in the research pile for now.
JK
@Steeplejack:
Very informative post. Thanks for sharing your views.
D-Chance.
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Maybe the best investment we ever made in the Space Program. And, to think, we were ready to abandon it. Since changing our minds and putting the money into fixing and updating it, it continues to inspire and instill awe.
D-Chance.
@DaBomb:
Pelosi would have given Wilson the evil eye, if the Botox had allowed her to squint… :-D