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Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

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You are here: Home / Politics / Media / From Fort Sumter to the filibuster

From Fort Sumter to the filibuster

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The Times RoomForDebate blog has an interesting, if seriously flawed, series of opinions about what makes South Carolina such a screwed up place politically. First to secede, Strom Thurmond filibustering civil rights, Joe Wilson, etc.

The interesting? A bunch of history professors describing all of this. The flawed? Freaking Armstrong Williams, pimping for Wilson:

In many respects, Joe Wilson’s outburst last night was more from the gut as it was from the heart. I know Joe Wilson. He’s a self-effacing, humble man, like many in his district. He’s not prone to such antics, which is why I was shocked to discover listening to the president’s speech that his was the voice that screamed those words.

Poor taste? You bet. But to many in the Palmetto State, Congressman Wilson’s lapse reflected weeks of pent up frustration from the thousands of constituents he and several of his colleagues heard at their own town halls.

He’ll be regarded as a hero in some circles; not for his disrespect, these are, after all, gentrified southerners. But rather, Joe Wilson will be viewed for doing the right thing — for calling out the falsehoods of the Obama message machine, there and then. No dawdling, no delay.

It’s quite possible that Joe Wilson paid Amstrong Williams to write this. Why the fuck would the Times turn to a man at the center of the biggest pay-to-fluff media scandal of recent times? Good God. There are times when I wish that all of these papers, all of them, would hurry up and go bankrupt.

Looking on the brighter side, at least nothing like this has happened recently in Senate:

Perhaps the most famous of such precedents occurred in 1856 when South Carolina Congressman Preston Brooks, a nationalist, entered the Senate chamber and caned Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner after the latter had given a speech attacking slavery and insulting South Carolina politicians. Sumner was temporarily disabled by the beating and missed many months of senate duty; Brooks resigned his seat but received a hero’s welcome in South Carolina for defending the honor of the state.

The Republicans may use the death of a Massachusetts Senator as an opportunity to filibuster over the next few months, but at least they didn’t cause that death themselves.

Reader Interactions

154Comments

  2. 2.

    cleek

    He’ll be regarded as a hero in some circles; not for his disrespect, these are, after all, gentrified southerners.

    oh fer fuck’s sake. when will this stupid myth die ?

    there are no genteel, polite, erudite, seeksucker-wearing southern gentlemen strolling around down here.

  3. 3.

    JGabriel

    DougJ:

    It’s quite possible that Joe Wilson paid Amstrong Williams to write this.

    Ooh, nice one. I doubt any of us will top that.

    .

  4. 4.

    linda

    goddamn, armstrong williams defending those who would lynch him in ny minute if the times were different.

  5. 5.

    allen

    “…at least they didn’t cause that death themselves.”

    An excellent example of condemnation by faint praise. But it is about the best you can say about the current crop of Republican senators.

  7. 7.

    Mr Furious

    “He’s a self-effacing, humble man, like many in his district.”

    Fucking bullshit. I live in the Carolinas now, and two words I won’t use to describe people down here are “self-effacing and humble” when it comes to expressing opinions on politics and race.

    Confederate flags abound, and people aren’t exactly subtle about conservatism, racism, and hatred of liberals.

  8. 8.

    General Winfield Stuck

    but at least they didn’t cause that death themselves.

    True, but they seem to be leading the charge to choke the life right out of the country’s political sanity.

  11. 11.

    ominira

    OT: Cass Sunstein confirmed as director of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in a 57-40 vote. I guess Glenn Beck’s reach isn’t that high.

  12. 12.

    Jay C

    A little more background on Cong. Brooks: he had to walk with a cane due to a wound he had received in a duel with another Southern politician: he decided to use it on Sen. Sumner since he thought the Senator (being an honorability-challenged Yankee) would decline the “honor” of settling disputes with pistols, like a true “gentleman”.

    He also had a little help from another SC pol, who accompanied Brooks to the Senate chamber, and pulled a gun to keep any help away while Brooks caned Sumner senseless.
    Ah yes, the good old days….

  13. 13.

    MattF

    Note this map showing the county-by-county percentage of slaves in 1860. Note that South Carolina stands out as the one state where nearly all the counties had a majority of slaves. They’ve always been screwed up, they’ve never gotten over it.

  15. 15.

    JGabriel

    Lacy K. Ford, Jr.:

    Many South Carolinians of both parties have suffered unexpected embarrassment from two of the state’s most prominent Republicans — Governor Mark Sanford, who admitted an affair with an Argentinian woman, and Congressman Joe Wilson, who broke all the rules of Congressional decorum by shouting “you lie” at President Obama during his speech. [Emphasis added.]

    WTF? Why would Democrats have anything to be embarrassed by? This is taking “both parties” rhetoric a (another) step too far.

    Jeebus.

    .

  16. 16.

    mellowjohn

    a tad more on brooks.
    he immediately received dozens of new canes in the mail.
    after resigning his seat, he was immediately re-elected.
    and – fortunately – he died the next year.

    p.s. the sc senator who pulled the gun was killed in the civil war.

  17. 17.

    drillfork

    @ominira:

    OT: Cass Sunstein confirmed as director of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in a 57-40 vote. I guess Glenn Beck’s reach isn’t that high doesn’t extend to anyone Obama actually gives a crap about.

    Fixed.

  18. 18.

    burnspbesq

    Do you suppose we could hire the Piranha Brothers to nail Armstrong Williams’ head to the floor?

  19. 19.

    kay

    Anyone else notice how lively and open the debate got when the conservative majority were shown the door?
    We debate every little thing now. It’s downright noisy.
    Democrats are bucking Obama on Afghanistan on 9/11 and they haven’t yet been accused of supporting the terrorists or being unpatriotic! We’re having a grown-up discussion on Afghanistan on 9/11, and there are two sides. That all by itself is a sea change.
    Coincidence?
    I think it has something to do with the tolerance for dissent at the top.

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    @Jay C: And he was also a coward. Quoth WIkipedia:

    However, Brooks’s attack on Sumner was regarded in the north as the act of a cowardly barbarian. One of the bitterest critics of the attack was Sumner’s fellow New Englander, Congressman Anson Burlingame. When Burlingame denounced Brooks as a coward on the floor of the House, Brooks challenged him to a duel, and Burlingame accepted the challenge. Burlingame, as the challenged party, specified rifles as the weapons, and to get around American anti-dueling laws he named the Navy Yard on the Canadian side of Niagara Falls as the site. Brooks backed out of the challenge, claiming that he would be murdered on his way north. Burlingame’s reputation as a deer hunter and a deadly shot with a rifle could also have been a factor.

    Guess things weren’t so much fun when the other guy can fight back.

    -dms

  21. 21.

    Crashman06

    @mellowjohn: Even more on Brooks. Apparently, he was lambasted by Massachusetts Representative Anson Burlingame. Offended, Brooks challenged Burlingame to a duel. Burlingame enthusiastically accepted, as it was widely known that he was a crack shot with the rifle. As Wiki puts it, he chickened out:

    Brooks, reportedly dismayed by both Burlingame’s unexpectedly enthusiastic acceptance and his reputation as a crack shot, neglected to show up, instead citing unspecified risks to his safety if he was to cross “hostile country” (the Northern states) in order to reach Canada.

    Big mouthed coward.

  23. 23.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @kay:

    We debate every little thing now. It’s downright noisy.

    Small talk of life in the insane asylum.

  24. 24.

    ethan salto

    This is comical:

    In 1860, South Carolina became the first state to secede — and even threatened to secede from the Confederacy because the other southern states refused to re-open the slave trade. In 1856, on the Senate floor Congressman Preston Brooks bloodied an abolitionist senator with a cane.

    They’re so nuts that they almost seceded from the Confederacy. Yow.

  25. 25.

    JGabriel

    @burnspbesq:

    Do you suppose we could hire the Piranha Brothers to nail Armstrong Williams’ head to the floor?

    While I’m opposed to violent rhetoric like this, my initial response was, “Why bother? We’d have to lift him out of the gutter.”

    .

  26. 26.

    General Winfield Stuck

    South Carolina is the only southern state I have never set foot in. With any luck that will remain the case.

  28. 28.

    kay

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Conservatives found their voice, Stuck. It took a liberal President to free them.
    Imagine the ruckus if Obama had proposed that prescription drug give-away? Freeing!
    In four years, he’ll have them debating actual issues. They’re brand new at this, so they’re still at the childish outburst stage, but it’s a process, and I for one look forward to watching them grow.
    I am sitting here awestruck that a democratic Senator can make a reasonable anti-Afghanistan argument without the requisite screeching of “traitor”. Even George Will feels liberated (finally!) to speak what’s left of his mind.

  30. 30.

    r€nato

    With regards to Armstrong Williams, look at it this way… Williams was the best they could do when they looked for someone to defend South Carolina.

    (none of the writers mentioned Bob Jones University…)

  32. 32.

    r€nato

    and of course South Carolina GOP voters allowed themselves to be swayed by those crude racial attacks on the parentage of McCain’s adopted child in 2000.

  33. 33.

    IndyLib

    @ethan salto:

    And

    In 1920, the state legislature rejected the women’s suffrage amendment, finally ratifying it a half century later.

    They didn’t ratify women’s right to vote for 50 years? 50 fucking years!?

  34. 34.

    r€nato

    @ethan salto:

    I had not known that.

    FWIW, my ex-father to this day calls it, “The War of Northern Aggression.”

    Never mind that South Carolina fired the first shots.

  36. 36.

    r€nato

    They didn’t ratify women’s right to vote for 50 years? 50 fucking years!?

    out of respect for their heritage.

  38. 38.

    BombIranForChrist

    I think the very premise of this article is flawed.

    Yes, fo’ show, South Carolina deserves special attention for, you know, being the first to secede from the Union, but anyone who tries to claim that South Carolina is the penultimate freak state has never heard of states like Florida, Louisiana, Illinois, New Jersey, California, and … well basically all the states except maybe South Dakota, which I don’t think really exists.

    If any state deserves the crown for crazy, I think it has to be Louisiana, perhaps the most corrupt political entity in the history of humanity… place is nuts …

  39. 39.

    BombIranForChrist

    Oh, and I forgot to mention Kansas. Wow. Kansas is way, way up there on the Freak Flag meter.

  40. 40.

    r€nato

    @dmsilev:

    Brooks backed out of the challenge, claiming that he would be murdered on his way north. Burlingame’s reputation as a deer hunter and a deadly shot with a rifle could also have been a factor.

    Was he the original GOP chickenhawk, then?

  42. 42.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @kay:

    You are much more optimistic than I on the return of reason and debate from wingnuts in general and southern wingnuts in particular. I personally expect acts of open rebellion from southern legislatures in the form of 10th amendment declarations of states rights bills, beginning with Obama’s health care bill.

    And generally a collective middle finger rising over Dixie, facing north.

    But I sure hope yer right and I’m wrong.

  44. 44.

    r€nato

    Bomb, I am sure you can dig up dirt on any state. My own state, Arizona, elected Ev Mecham (with a small plurality, but it happened nonetheless). He repealed MLK day. That wackjob with the AR-15 outside Obama’s speech recently is from the Phoenix suburbs, as well as the church he attends where the pastor openly wishes death on Obama.

    But really, I think South Carolina clearly beats out even Texas and Kansas for sheer right-wingnuttery. They got it all there. They even tried to secede from the Confederacy, now that’s hardcore. I think the words revanchist and ‘reactionary’ fit SC perfectly.

  49. 49.

    Linkmeister

    When I was two we lived in Charleston. Apparently the house we were in was a former servants’ or slaves’ quarters off one of the main historical streets. Mom remembers the neighborhood fondly, but the neighbors, not so much.

  51. 51.

    linda

    chuck todd just asked robert gibbs ‘why is osama still out there’ … the american people want to know.

  52. 52.

    ethan salto

    More interesting stuff here:

    South Carolina became the wealthiest of the thirteen colonies because of the African slave trade. Charleston Harbor was the main entry point for bringing slaves into the country. No other colony relied on slaves more, and soon blacks outnumbered whites. By 1760 Charleston was the richest town in America.

    I can’t vouch for the veracity of this article, and I’m no scholar on this subject, but it seems like South Carolina was the epicenter of the slave trade.

    Weirdly, I sort of want to visit now, just to see for myself what kind of place elects Jesse Helms and Joe Wilson et al.

  53. 53.

    Cackalacka

    As a North Carolinian, I wish those assholes in SC would change their state name.

    They’ve been riding the ‘Carolinas’ coat-tails for way, way too long.

    Everyone ought to thank the Tarheels and the Crackers for being buffers for …(shoot, what the hell to South Carolinians call themselves Palmetons?)… depraved stupidity since the days of the Lords Proprietors.

  55. 55.

    kay

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    “DEATH PANELS!”

    “By ‘death panels’ did you mean, perhaps, ‘advanced directives’?

    It’s slow going, I admit, but here they are, brand new empowered legislators, and they have something or other to say, I think, so it’s gotta happen like this.

  56. 56.

    JK

    @linda:

    Chuck Todd is a waste of atoms and protoplasm. Todd has become the poster boy for airheads in the MSM. He should be working the cash register at McDonald’s. He has no business whatsoever being on tv and polluting the airwaves with his breathtaking and monumental stupidity.

  57. 57.

    IndyLib

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I just can’t see how these people still live like this. I grew up in the west, where part of the mythology is the strong, independent woman, who was capable of running the ranch if her husband was gone or dead. Yes a lot of the mythology is crap, but frikkin’ Wyoming had the first female Governor ever and that state is about as conservative as you can get.

  58. 58.

    freelancer

    From Olbermann’s Special Comment on Nov 2nd, 2006:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/15520997#15520997

    “Congressman Brooks hit his victim repeatedly. Sen. Sumner somehow got to his feet and tried to flee. Brooks chased him and delivered untold blows to Sumner’s head. Even though Sumner lay unconscious and bleeding on the Senate floor, Brooks finally stopped beating him only because his cane finally broke.

    Others will cite John Brown’s attack on the arsenal at Harper’s Ferry as the exact point after which the Civil War became inevitable.

    In point of fact, it might have been the moment, not when Brooks broke his cane over the prostrate body of Sen. Sumner — but when voters in Brooks’ district started sending him new canes.“

  59. 59.

    MK

    The Republicans may use the death of a Massachusetts Senator as an opportunity to filibuster over the next few months, but at least they didn’t cause that death themselves.

    This is why I don’t get your pronouncements (even though they may be hyperbolic) of the country have a good run. Things may appear nasty these days with the birthers and Obama but frankly, the rhetoric back in the day could get ugly. If I recall correctly, it wasn’t out of the question for so-called respectable newspapers to call politicians’ mothers prostitutes in the 19th century.

    So yeah, the Constitutional legitimacy of Obama’s presidency and the cries of sockalism are all false and perhaps expose prejudices but I’d say it’s comparatively better than what has happened in the past.

    @kay:

    Anyone else notice how lively and open the debate got when the conservative majority were shown the door?

    Yes. This is a Good Thing. Now if only the damned opposition would bring up some valid arguments, we’d be set. But man, is it nice to see dissent after the last eight years without ridiculous calls of “Treason!” and “Un-American!”.

  60. 60.

    El Cid

    Sir, your comments regarding Armstrong Williams are offensive and insulting to my honor, and I would challenge you to a duel, except that the honorable Mr. Williams has so far failed to pay me the money he promised me for this very comment.

  61. 61.

    donovong

    Okay. That’s it. Cackalacka and ehtan salto – blow it out your asses.

    While I confess that ours is not a progressive state, none of the states immediately surrounding us have any reason to sneer – especilly North Carolina. Jesse Helms, anybody? Liddy Dole sound familiar?

    And as for looking down your fucking noses at SC because of Joe Wilson? James Clyburn, assholes.

    We are not all cro-magnon retards down here and the idiotic snide comments are more reflective of the authors than this state. I have encountered more proud racists in Arkansas, Indiana and Texas than I ever have here in SC in all my 55 years.

  63. 63.

    JK

    @IndyLib:

    Wyoming

    On the plus side
    Elected the first female governor
    Birthplace of Jackson Pollock and John Perry Barlow

    On the negative side
    Birthplace of Dick Cheney

    Wyoming is a mixed bag in terms of pluses and minuses, but birthplace of Dick Cheney rates as a big fucking negative.

  64. 64.

    linda

    @JK:

    i’ve never really seen long segments with him; good grief, he is nothing but a collection of talking points fed to him by others. and he’s a terrible host, too. also.

  65. 65.

    El Cid

    P.S. I have never kissed the editor of the Radio Times.

    Brigadier General Sir Charles Arthur Strong (Mrs.)

  66. 66.

    JGabriel

    JK:

    Todd has become the poster boy for airheads in the MSM.

    I don’t know that Todd’s an airhead exactly. Todd’s ok with numbers, but has no political sense – much like many Computer Industry Libertarians. How he ended up in TV rather than Rasmussen is a bit perplexing though.

    .

  67. 67.

    kay

    @MK:

    I just got it today. I have been GETTING it, but it just hit me today, and, for today, I am happy about that.

    “We are having debates!” The Democrats are really going at it, but in a healthy way, I think.

    I have no idea if the Republicans will join, but, ultimately, I’m a liberal, so if they want to scream a while longer they can do that.

    The Vice President doesn’t agree with the President, and I respect both sides of that argument. I’m just enjoying that.

  69. 69.

    linda

    sanford’s supposedly being pressured by ‘the family’ to stay in office. they don’t give up power easily. it’s interesting how that well-known connection is never discussed.

  70. 70.

    JK

    @JGabriel:

    OK, Chuck Todd was proficient when it came to crunching numbers. Maybe, airhead was a little too strong.

    The bottom line is that NBC made a huge mistake taking him from the shallow end of the pool and dropping him into the deep end of the pool. He’s totally lost in his current position.

  71. 71.

    shoutingattherain

    @donovong:

    We are not all cro-magnon retards down here and the idiotic snide comments are more reflective of the authors than this state. I have encountered more proud racists in Arkansas, Indiana and Texas than I ever have here in SC in all my 55 years.

    AND South Carolina has better beaches than Arkansas, Indiana, or Texas. Combined. More miniature golf courses too. Also.

  72. 72.

    Batocchio

    According to my history teacher, Sumner never fully recovered, and started gripping his desk when it happened – he was beaten so severely he partially ripped the desk out from where it was screwed to the floor.

  74. 74.

    Shell

    Always love how for so long the South called the Civil War, ‘The War of Northern Aggression.”
    Um, and who fired the opening salvo on Fort Sumter? I guess their emotions just got away from them.

  75. 75.

    Chad N Freude

    Just for a little perspective here, this from Wikipedia:

    Stephen Colbert was born in Washington, D.C. and grew up in Charleston, South Carolina on James Island

  76. 76.

    Hart Williams

    My comment at the NY Times:

    Please STOP whitewashing the Preston Brooks maiming of Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner. At least two writers above minimize the maiming of the man as just, what? High spirits? Oh, those wacky South Carolinians? Just a disagreement carried a bit too far? (A credible source in this case) Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sumner

    “Brooks began beating Sumner severely on the head with a thick gutta-percha cane with a gold head. Sumner was trapped under the heavy desk (which was bolted to the floor), but Brooks continued to bash Sumner until he ripped the desk from the floor. By this time, Sumner was blinded by his own blood, and he staggered up the aisle and collapsed, lapsing into unconsciousness. Brooks continued to beat Sumner until he broke his cane, then quietly left the chamber. Several other senators attempted to help Sumner, but were blocked by Keitt who was holding a pistol and shouting, “Let them be!” (Brooks died in 1857; Keitt was censured for his actions and was later killed in 1864 during the Civil War as a Confederate officer).

    “Sumner did not attend the Senate for the next three years while recovering from the attack….”

    That is NOT a minor or laughable event.

    ====

    to which I ought to add: neither was Wilson’s screech. We’re back on that same path, and nobody seems to be worried. On the Democratic Daily — which I guest blog on — Larry Kilgore, the Texas Secessionist GOP candidate keeps showing up and calling it perfectly reasonable.

  80. 80.

    Chad N Freude

    @kay:

    There are lots of racist Democrats, and Republicans, and Independents in the midwest United States, truth be told.

    Fixed.

  81. 81.

    Xenos

    “During his 1863 visit to the City, Jefferson Davis spoke to the people of Charleston from the front steps of City Hall. He assured the people of Charleston that the South would fight until there was nothing but ruins for they North to capture. The crowd chanted, “Ruins! Ruins!” in response.”

    http://www.awod.com/cwchas/musearch.html

    It is a shame that Sherman steered around Joe Wilson’s home town of Charleston on his way back north. His march went straight through what is now Wilson’s 2nd District – you would think those folks would have learned the lesson of letting arseholes for Charleston set the state’s agenda.

  84. 84.

    MK

    I should add that it’s probably Sumner’s fault that conservatives think liberals are wusses. If only Sumner had subscribed to “I’m a Fan of Disproportionate Force” club and dropped an anvil and several horse carriages on Brooks…

  85. 85.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Fuck the south, all of it, including my home state of KY. Of course there are some decent opened minded people there, but they are not in charge, and are a distinct minority.

    When they accept the Constitution in it’s entirety and make an honest effort to start living it, then I will welcome them as fellow citizens. As it is, they are a festering boil on the buttocks of America. And always have been.

  87. 87.

    HumboldtBlue

    Sumner recovered and went on to one of the more distinguished careers in American politics. Her served Lincoln throughout the war, despite his repeated maneuverings behind Lincoln’s back, which the craftiest politician this nation has ever seen, was able to outwit Sumner by using his fellow Cabinet members against him. Sumner almost made it to the Supreme Court, and was deeply hurt when Lincoln chose Salmon Chase instead. Sumner was an outspoken leader of abolitionists and a passionate advocate for human rights and the sanctity of the Union.

  88. 88.

    jl

    If I am wrong on this, someone please send me a URL, but it seems the NYT can spend four times as much space for gasbags to bloviate about SC as it can to explain the facts of the matter, which are the GOP charges about illegal immigrants are total BS, and probably bad-faith posturing to further damage the proposed health care reform.

    The charge that the proposed health care reform would provide subsidies to illegal residents is flat out false. The legislation explicitly forbids it and retains current prohibitions from other federal programs.

    But of course, they GOP comes up with more BS. The illegal immigrants could buy insurance with their own money on the insurance exchanges. So effing what? Now it looks like everyone will have to go through proof of citizenship to use the exchange. I guess we will need proof of citizenship to enter national parks, next, because aint that a taxpayer benefit, that some illegal might use? OMIGOD< the world will end unless we do something.

    The fact that illegal residents who pay for their own care will help not hurt does not seem to enter the debate.

    But, of course, this is very convenient way to prevent poor and minorities from accessing the system.

    The other BS is that there is no enforcement mechanism. Another lie from the GOP. The legislation authorizes administrators to use current cheap and effective mechanisms employed by other programs (for example Medicaid) to check citizenship before benefits are approved.

    But the GOP wants the burden to be on the applicant, wants inefficient ‘checklists’ and ‘documentation requirements’ and other garbage to gum things up.

    Here is what you get from that nonsense:
    ‘In 2007, a Government Accountability Office report (PDF) found that “the DRA documentation requirements have led to widespread declines in Medicaid enrollment and increased administrative costs [and] have cost significantly more to implement than they have saved in expenditures by excluding undocumented immigrants from Medicaid coverage. For every $100 spent by federal taxpayers to implement the new requirements in six states, only 14 cents in Medicaid savings can be documented.” ‘

    From:
    Immigrant Rights Group: Baucus and Conrad ‘Caved’, Made Health Care Bill More Expensive
    Talkingpointsmemo
    Brian Beutler | September 11, 2009

    So, the country has have time to bloviate at length about kooks and crooks from SC (as if other states do not have them), but no time to discuss the actual facts.

    This mediocre little report below is all I could find in the NYT on the facts of the issue. If I missed a better NYT piece on it, let me know.
    Illegal Immigrants Could Not Buy Insurance on New ‘Exchange,’ White House Says
    By David M. Herszenhorn
    September 11, 2009

  90. 90.

    jl

    But, thanks for this Balloon-Juice post and commments. I see there are lots of interesting historical tidbits I did not know about the famous caning.

    But Balloon-Juice is blog, where obsession over Tunch’s weight and Lily’s steeler gear is certainly very important to cover, as well as earth shaking discussion of the fate of our country and the world. It is not the NYT.

    The NYT is supposed to our high class newspaper. And I think their coverage of the facts is very poor in this case.

    But if I missed something, let me know, please.

  91. 91.

    kay

    If I were a supporter of this person, I think I would stop saying how calm and deliberative and polite he usually is, because that just makes his outburst at Obama more irrational and odd.

  92. 92.

    Cat Lady

    @Hart Williams:

    I’ve lived near Boston all of my life and consider myself well informed and educated, but I had no more than a superficial knowledge of Charles Sumner.

    This quote breaks my heart for what we’ve lost – when passions were running high in the progressives, and the liberal press was actually liberal:

    Northerners were outraged, with the editor of the New York Evening Post, William Cullen Bryant, writing: “The South cannot tolerate free speech anywhere, and would stifle it in Washington with the bludgeon and the bowie-knife… Has it come to this, that we must speak with bated breath in the presence of our Southern masters? … Are we to be chastised as they chastise their slaves? Are we too, slaves, slaves for life, a target for their brutal blows, when we do not comport ourselves to please them?”

    I’m in the Joe Wilson must be censured by the House camp. I’ve said this before here and I’ll say it again. These Republicans should just cut the kabuki crap of half-apologizing for being caught saying things they say routinely in their own circles. Take responsibility. Man up, grab the mike, call Obama a n****r and get it over with, and get on with it, whatever it is. We all know they want to.

  93. 93.

    Johnny Pez

    Six months after the attack, Sumner was still bedridden, but the Massachusetts legislature re-elected him to the Senate, since they figured his empty chair was a standing rebuke to the slaveowners.

  94. 94.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @ethan salto:

    Actually in this day and age Charleston is an absolutely wonderful city, I mean truly it is, if you like a place where you can get a hotel in the middle of the city (we stayed in the old Citadel) and walk everywhere, it is your place. Everywhere is within walking distance in Charleston (if you like walking that is) the markets in the middle of the town are brilliant (and this is going to be a long aside, but the gentile black ladies who make baskets can ask absolutely incredible prices for them, it is an art passed down from mother to daughter, you can expect to pay up to $100.00 for a decent sized basket, not bad for a trade which the slaves sort of picked up using materials all around them, they were given lemons and in this day and age they have turned it into very lucrative lemonade). My only gripe about the place, there is nowhere to get a slice of pizza and a beer for a late lunch, sure you can go to a restaurant and get surf and turf, and oysters and she crab soup, but pizza and beer? Nah.

  95. 95.

    jl

    OK also found this NYT analysis, which I also think is pretty poor analysis of the issues. The last third of it does not even seem to concern illegal residents getting benefits, but rather scattershot discussion of how many people who the GOP can make a bogus fuss about might gain benefits (obviously a very important thing to obsess over)

    Not a word about what would be the most sensible thing to do, morally and economically. No, just obsess over every bogus detail of bogus charges in a vague, incomplete way.

    September 10, 2009, 10:54 am
    Illegal Immigrants and the Health Care Legislation
    By David M. Herszenhorn
    NYT

    Only thing I have to add to the topic of this post is that even SC voters seem to have had enough, since Wilson trails is upcoming opponent Miller in a poll done after the outburst. That is an improvement over sending Brooks more canes and giving him a hero’s welcome.

  97. 97.

    Shell

    “Brooks continued to beat Sumner until he broke his cane, then quietly left the chamber.”

    I remember this being detailed in an episode of Ken Burn’s ‘Civil War.” A following comment was ‘Southern sympathizers sent Brooks new canes.”

  98. 98.

    arguingwithsignposts

    Can we stop the individual state bashing? I lived in SC for a while and there are parts of it that are beautiful. There are really good people in the state, just as there are in NY or CA or any other state. They aren’t any worse than the holier-than-thou NORTH Carolinians who ALSO seceded, and who have just as many racist crackas as SC.

    They don’t hold the license on Southern crackaness – witness GA, FL, TN, KY, NC, AL, MS, LA or TX (I could go on but you get the point).

    They have idiot congresspeople, but so does everyone. Here in IL, we’ve supposedly got “The Chicago Way.” In my home state of Texas … well, we had quite a run of crappy pols.

    Anyway, stop dissing the entire state. That’s what makes me sad about the whole thing. The upstate is pretty liberal in some parts. but the damned racists have family ties from the revolution.

  99. 99.

    Chad N Freude

    @kay: Ah, but an outburst from someone with such a mild, calm, even temperament shows how terrible the provocation was. My God, it was so outrageous that it drove even this Jesus clone to an explosion of anger.

  101. 101.

    gbear

    Phil Nugent has a great takedown of Wilson and an even better takedown of the post-Reagan republican party. Brutal and hilarious and true. also.

    According to the New York Times, Brother Joe “seemed rattled in the wake of his comment”; I suspect that what he was really rattled about was his disappointed surprise at hearing crickets chirping in response to his witticism. I imagine that he thought he was getting the ball rolling, and that once he’d delivered the first angry scream at Obama’s head, the rest of his brethren would fall in line and start stamping their feet, hooting, cackling, and name-calling until Obama threw down his text and fled from the room in tears, in search of his blankie.

  102. 102.

    geg6

    Much as it pains me to do so, I must defend the lovely city of Charleston and the island of Hilton Head. Just beautiful places. Now the denizens? Wasn’t impressed at all. Quite uppity, you might characterize them. But the places themselves are wonderful. Perhaps neutron bombs would be the correct way to deal with them. And while we’re at it, I know plenty of places here in PA where we could drop a few of those and get rid of our own native KKKers. In fact, my plan is to confront a few of them right here tomorrow at the 9/12 rally at our county courthouse. This county full of crackers went for McCain in November (with a few pockets of sanity scattered in the more diverse towns). I am going over to the county seat tomorrow to point, laugh, and make them completely froth with rage. Should be fun. Who knows maybe BOB will be there.

  103. 103.

    Cat Lady

    @JK:

    I didn’t know that, but that makes total sense. Poets and artists tell the truth. I’m going to spend some more time with William Cullen Bryant. Thanks JK.

  105. 105.

    Anne Laurie

    It’s quite possible that Joe Wilson paid Amstrong Williams to write this.

    If so, I hope Mr. Williams wasn’t foolish enough to take a check as payment.

  107. 107.

    Xenos

    @Cat Lady: There are streets named after Sumner in every decent-sized town in Eastern Massachusetts. The abolishionists raised a lot of money and support out that outrageous attack, and exacted sufficient revenge on SC in due time.

    Sumner took over the Senate seat that had been held by Daniel Webster, and that same seat was later held by the two Lodges, JFK, and most recently, Teddy K.

  109. 109.

    gbear

    @geg6:

    I just googled to see where the 9/12 rally was happening in the Twin Cities and was reminded that Obama is speaking in town tomorrow at the Target Center. Tickets are first come/first serve and free.

    Here’s a link to the Teabagger’s site if you can stand to read that shit. I think I’m going to avoid the area.

  110. 110.

    rs

    @Shell: My dad, born and raised in Savannah, thinks “War of Southern Treason” is a more accurate description. I think it might have something to do with him being drafted during the Korean War and learning about weed and jazz from black guys he served with at Camp [email protected]Mr Furious: The confederate flag issue could be solved inside of a recruiting year with a boycott by black athletes of Clemson and the University of South Carolina. Then Mississippi, Alabama, or wherever else they seem to think it’s necessary to fly that celebration of slavery.

  111. 111.

    Hart Williams

    @Cat Lady:

    Thank you Cat Lady. Would that our “liberal” press would, just ONCE in a damned while, show that “liberal bias” they’re always being accused of and never exhibit.

    What is truly frightening to me here is Santayana’s Curse: by continuing to whitewash and pooh-pooh, we’re headed down the same path that we took in the 1850s. First it was incivility in speech and debate. Then it was hatred of the other side. Then, continual little acts of violence until we finally got full-blown Civil War.

    And, as for ARGUING WITH SIGNPOSTS, who ARE we supposed to blame for Fort Sumpter? South Carolina has a long record of sedition, treason and racism. There is no reason to suddenly play all nicey nice here. As humans deal in glittering generalities all the time, this is no more egregious than any other such generalization. SC is the poster-child for a lot of what’s wrong with the USA, and when they’d like to clean up their act, I’ll be glad to take your point.

    We are a nation looking for a John Brown. When the finger-biting incident took place, I said “OH SHIT,” because now blood has been spilled.

    Now, following the Dobson Kooks’ rally claiming that we’re headed for mandatory abortion and euthanasia, allegedly a “a well-known anti-abortion activist” was shot and killed in Michigan. (Allegedly because virtually every story the Righties float is a damned lie.)

    But, if true, we’re heading back to “Bleeding Kansas.”

    At this point we HAVE to remember the past. My own family is just not recovering from the scars of my great-great grandfather’s service in the Civil War. He was permanently disabled for the rest of his life, etc. etc. etc.

    But there are those who are — either knowingly or not — trying to take us back down that road, and it’s fitting on Nine-Eleven that we should remember and think what we need to do to tell these Wingnut bastards to stand down.

    Coddling them isn’t the answer.

    Except to the New York Times, evidently.

  112. 112.

    Hart Williams

    @Cat Lady:

    Thank you Cat Lady. Would that our “liberal” press would, just ONCE in a damned while, show that “liberal bias” they’re always being accused of and never exhibit.

    What is truly frightening to me here is Santayana’s Curse: by continuing to whitewash and pooh-pooh, we’re headed down the same path that we took in the 1850s. First it was incivility in speech and debate. Then it was hatred of the other side. Then, continual little acts of violence until we finally got full-blown Civil War.

    And, as for ARGUING WITH SIGNPOSTS, who ARE we supposed to blame for Fort Sumpter? South Carolina has a long record of sedition, treason and racism. There is no reason to suddenly play all nicey nice here. As humans deal in glittering generalities all the time, this is no more egregious than any other such generalization. SC is the poster-child for a lot of what’s wrong with the USA, and when they’d like to clean up their act, I’ll be glad to take your point.

    We are a nation looking for a John Brown. When the finger-biting incident took place, I said “OH SHIT,” because now blood has been spilled.

    Now, following the Dobson Kooks’ rally claiming that we’re headed for mandatory abortion and euthanasia, allegedly a “a well-known anti-abortion activist” was shot and killed in Michigan. (Allegedly because virtually every story the Righties float is a damned lie.)

    But, if true, we’re heading back to “Bleeding Kansas.”

    At this point we HAVE to remember the past. My own family is just now recovering from the scars of my great-great grandfather’s service in the Civil War. He was permanently disabled for the rest of his life, etc. etc. etc.

    But there are those who are — either knowingly or not — trying to take us back down that road, and it’s fitting on Nine-Eleven that we should remember and think what we need to do to tell these Wingnut bastards to stand down.

    Coddling them isn’t the answer.

    Except to the New York Times, evidently.

  113. 113.

    kay

    @Chad N Freude:

    I promised myself I wouldn’t get into the weeds on illegal immigrants/health care reform.
    We already require documentation for Medicare and Medicaid and the process costs more to administer than it saves in exclusions.
    This is like their other made-up issue: voter fraud.
    I was a poll judge for 4 years. Voter fraud, for all intents and purposes, doesn’t exist. I can say this conclusively, from both personal experience and state stats. Their whole paranoid rant is based a fiction. Forget about convincing them, though. You will never.
    Conservatives are solving another problem that doesn’t exist. Like with voter fraud, once they’re convinced someone somewhere is getting something that is “theirs” they just go full-out bonkers.

  114. 114.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @IndyLib 7:19 pm

    In that case, it saddens me more than I can tell you to observe that Wyoming has only one female state senator.

  116. 116.

    Chad N Freude

    @Bubblegum Tate: PALIN/JINDAL???You have to admit, Sullivan must have suffered a sudden precipitous drop in IQ to do this. And it looks like special treatment to me, too. The Conservatives will undoubtedly make this proof of Democratic corruption, while the wagons remain circled around Cheney, the Justice Department criminals, Yoo, etc., et al.

  117. 117.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    @donovong:

    Congratulations on only having the fourth most racists “total” in the nation. Now all you have to do is decrease your league leading “percentage” ranking.

  118. 118.

    Chad N Freude

    @kay:

    Conservatives are solving another problem that doesn’t exist.

    I see it a bit differently. The Conservatives are inventing problems to scare as many people as they can into clinging to the status quo.

  119. 119.

    JK

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Every state in the union and every nation on Earth has produced great, admirable, courageous, creative, and inspiring people. No geographic region has a monopoly on producing good people.

    Your comment reminds me of Sarah Palin’s infamous quote during her convention speech: “We grow good people in our small towns”. Regrettably, Palin is so intellectually lazy that she quoted Westbrook Pegler, a right wing columnist who wrote of his regret that FDR wasn’t assassinated and expressed his hope that RFK would be assassinated. Pegler was a vile, despicable human being but he was correct that we grow good people in our small towns.

    Nonetheless, I deeply resented Palin inserting Pegler’s quote in her speech because the clear implication was that ONLY small towns are capable of growing good people. Palin was clearly pandering to a bunch of yahoos who regard big cities as cesspools of depravity and debauchery.

    I have news for Sarah Dumbass Palin and her legion of knuckle dragging numbskull supporters. WE GROW GOOD PEOPLE IN NEWARK, PHILADELPHIA, PITTSBURGH, CLEVELAND, DETROIT, CHICAGO, WASHINGTON DC, SAN FRANCSCO, LOS ANGELES, SEATTLE, AND EVEN NEW YORK.

    Most commenters are justifiably angry with Joe Wilson. South Carolina, like other member states of the Confederacy, has an ugly history regarding race relations. Joe Wilson’s heckling unfortunately plays into a very ugly narrative. I agree with you 100% that you can’t condemn all South Carolinians for Joe Wilson, just as you can’t condemn all Alaskans for Sarah Palin or all Minnesotans for Michele Bachmann.

  120. 120.

    cursorial

    Don’t mean to nitpick, but his constituents’ frustration only seemed “pent up” long enough for them to lurch to the nearest microphone, TV camera, or radio call-in. Repression did not seem to be among the multitude of psychiatric problems on display.

    Back to the cliche drawer with you, Armstrong.

  121. 121.

    gbear

    @kay:

    Regarding the issue of illegal immigrants/health care reform: According to Pandagon, Mexico is already trying to establish universal health care, and will try to extend that health care to Mexicans living in the US. They might wind up with affordable health care before we do.

  122. 122.

    Chad N Freude

    @JK:

    Westbrook Pegler, a right wing columnist who wrote of his regret that FDR wasn’t assassinated and expressed his hope that RFK would be assassinated. Pegler was a vile, despicable human being

    You left out anti-semite.

  123. 123.

    kay

    @rs:

    That’s so funny, because my father dislikes southerners, well, he’s completely irrational on the issue, like, he won’t go to Florida, even, and he learned that in the Army.
    I don’t know what happened to him down there, but it might have been something as simple as an insult, because he is not, um, a forgiving person. He stays north of Baltimore, and has since 1950.
    I lived for a time in North Carolina. He never came to visit. Not once in 3 years. He told me not to “buy property” there, not that I had any money or intention to do that.

  124. 124.

    LD50

    Today, Brooks would have gotten a show on Fox, and Erick Erickson would be screaming for him to run for president.

  125. 125.

    ethan salto

    @donovong: As such a fervent SC booster, you must wake up every morning thanking Jeebus for the existence of Mississippi, so you can avoid being dead last in all of those measures of state excellence.

    Seriously? There are no women in the SC State Senate?

    It’s almost unbelievable.

  126. 126.

    Origuy

    Sherman was expected to pass through Charleston, but it was heavily defended. Instead he went through Columbia. History Detectives on PBS had a segment about the location of a bridge that the Confederates blew up to slow him down. Turned out it wasn’t where the historical marker said it was.

    Just to pile on South Carolina a little more; North Carolina’s license plates say “First in Flight”. Shouldn’t South Carolina’s say “First in Secession”?

  128. 128.

    JK

    @Chad N Freude:

    I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me and making that fact available to other readers of this thread.

    I’ve also read that Westbrook Pegler was one of Pat Buchanan’s heroes. It guess that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

  129. 129.

    LD50

    “During his 1863 visit to the City, Jefferson Davis spoke to the people of Charleston from the front steps of City Hall. He assured the people of Charleston that the South would fight until there was nothing but ruins for the North to capture. The crowd chanted, “Ruins! Ruins!” in response.”

    Reminds me of Goebbel’s 1943 “Total War” speech at the Sportpalast. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportpalast_speech)

  130. 130.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    Doug you will never make it politics. You left the most important part out:

    The Republicans may use the death of a Massachusetts Senator as an opportunity to filibuster over the next few months, but at least they didn’t cause that death themselves as far as I know.

    Aren’t you glad I showed up?

  131. 131.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Origuy:

    @donovong:

    Representative gov’t means that if you get more than 50 percent, you get to represent. As donovong mentioned – clyburn is a rep. from S.C.

    I don’t defend for a minute any of the racist things that have been done there. But damn, people, glass houses and all that.

  132. 132.

    Chad N Freude

    @JK: Pegler did frequent pieces about a mythical “George Spelvin, American”. Looking for something about these columns, I found this (via Google Books):

    Editorial Review – Kirkus Reviews Copyright (c) VNU Business Media, Inc.
    This is the second volume of the Pegler material. Your sales of this should be fairly predictable, and Pegler fans who delight in his carping criticism of the Administration, of Labor, of certain groups, will want to have their favorite columnist on tap for apt quotation. To most readers, outside this group, enough’s enough and where Pegler can be taken in small doses, a book develops a rash. His …
    More alter ego, George Spelvin, emerges as a vinegary and spiteful critic, whose thinking is dominated by his suspicion and dislike of labor unions. Pegler’s strength in his daily column seems to be his anti-attitude. He’s even anti-columnist. The humor wears thin, and in mass, the criticism seems destructive and tending towards spreading disunity, distrust, dislike.

  134. 134.

    JGabriel

    LD50:

    During his 1863 visit to the City, Jefferson Davis spoke to the people of Charleston from the front steps of City Hall. He assured the people of Charleston that the South would fight until there was nothing but ruins for the North to capture. The crowd chanted, “Ruins! Ruins!” in response.

    Reminds me of Goebbel’s 1943 “Total War” speech at the Sportpalast. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportpalast_speech)

    Really? It reminded me of Orcs outside of Isengard.

    .

  135. 135.

    Boston Yankee

    The South has never exceeded its allotment of gentlemen but it definitely has more than its share of racists. Gen. Sherman and the Union Army had a particular hatred for this citadel of slavery and secession. Hard to argue with their analysis. If this country had used the SC model of economic development we would be all be working on some corporate plantation for room and board.

  136. 136.

    JK

    @Chad N Freude:

    Thanks for this info. Even though so much time has passed since the Republican convention, I’m amazed that Sarah Palin was never asked about her decision to quote Westbrook Pegler in her acceptance speech. I guess the MSM was so awestruck by Palin’s drop dead gorgeous body, that a content analysis of her speech was deemed unnecessary and unfair.

    I’m sure that Barrack Obama would never have gotten away with quoting Malcolm X, Richard Wright, or James Baldwin in his acceptance speech without intense pushback from the MSM.

  138. 138.

    Cat Lady

    @LD50:
    @Hart Williams:

    At this point we HAVE to remember the past

    The parallels of now to the 1850’s and the 1930’s is starting to freak me out, the more I read about Sumner/Brooks-FDR-Nazis. Santayana’s curse indeed.

    My inner Mayan believes unreconstructed Southerners and their ilk are on a human evolutionary dead end.

    I refuse to believe we evolved over all this time to end up as fat stupid racist fucktards screaming Wolverines!

  139. 139.

    Zuzu's Petals

    Well, my Huguenot ancestors came by way of South Carolina, but had enough sense to get right down to Mississippi.

  143. 143.

    Robertdsc-iphone

    The United States Marine Corps has one of it’s training bases at Parris Island, South Carolina.

  144. 144.

    gravie

    Having spent quite a lot of time in South Carolina, I can attest first-hand that it is a seriously @#$&ed up state. (They don’t believe in cussin’ there, so out of respect for their tender sensibilities, I will pretend that I wasn’t cussin’.) Too many ignorant-and-proud-of-it folks. I’m a native Southerner but even for me, SC is too damn much.

  145. 145.

    Mike in NC

    North Carolina’s license plates say “First in Flight”. Shouldn’t South Carolina’s say “First in Secession”?

    No joke: most of them read “In God We Trust”. It’s a Bible Belt thang, y’all.

  146. 146.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    But of course, they GOP comes up with more BS. The illegal immigrants could buy insurance with their own money on the insurance exchanges. So effing what? Now it looks like everyone will have to go through proof of citizenship to use the exchange. I guess we will need proof of citizenship to enter national parks, next, because aint that a taxpayer benefit, that some illegal might use? OMIGOD< the world will end unless we do something.

    What I find interesting is that the same nuts who scream about freedom will absolutely shit their pants when they have to prove they are citizens to get medical coverage. You just know that the thought going through certain pasty white minds would be ‘This doesn’t apply to me because I am a citizen!’ They would expect the law to be applied to anyone not white (thus questionably American!) and would throw an absolute shit fit when told otherwise.

    True American exceptionalism: When you’re White you’re right!

  147. 147.

    Kiril

    It’s weird to me how quickly these things devolve into discussions about the Civil War. Non-Southerners may say that Southerners started it or have a Civil War fetish, but that doesn’t matter. When you buy into it, it just becomes a pissing contest about stuff that happened 150 years ago before any of us was born.
    You should be saying things like, “we don’t (or shouldn’t) do things like that in America.” Yeah, yeah, the past informs the present. But we’re not slaves of the past. We live now.
    I’m a Southerner (LA), and most of the people I’ve ever known don’t give two shits about the Civil War.
    The big shot politicians say this crap so you will respond like this and make it a state versus state thing, or a North versus South thing.
    After Sept. 11, 2001, I felt like the only liberal Democrat in Alabama for years. I was called a traitor and had people try to fight me in bars. My across the street neighbors invited me to a party and immediately accused me — screaming, in front of a crowd — of wanting to sell out America to the UN. I got hate mail. (I worked for my college newspaper.)
    And yeah, I criticize the South all the time. But for me, it’s all about making things better or letting them get worse. Because I actually live here and want to live in a better place. And believe it or not, there’s a lot more Democrats down here — real ones — than there were four years ago.
    This shit doesn’t normally bug me but I have the flu and I’m ornery. (awnry)

    inb4 but the Civil War is relevant because of race and old weird politicians and Confederate flags

    tl;dr fuck the Civil War, Joe Wilson’s opponent has raised $830,000 in two days.

  149. 149.

    CalD

    Yet another example of why I always bought the Daily News instead of the Times — well that and the fact that a tabloid is easier to deal with on the subway than a broadsheet. All my lefty friends used to look at me as though I had just committed blasphemy when I told them I wouldn’t buy the Times because it was too Republican. But which paper was it that let that awful woman use their from pages to start the Iraq war for Ahmet “the Thief” Chalabi and his boys? I rest my case.

  150. 150.

    mclaren

    This illustrates the genius of the Republicans. What’s everyone talking about? Obama’s speech?

    Nope.

    Ending the war in Afghanistan?

    Nope.

    Reducing the size of the U.S. military?

    Nope.

    Everyone’s talking about…Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson.

    Gotta hand it to the Republicans. You can have contempt for their tactics, but, boy, do those cotnemptible lowball publicity-whore tactics ever work. The Republicans have managed to totally 100% hijack the media. Nobody is talking about anything other than Joe Wilson.

    If three or four liberal members of Congress had this kind of media savvy and huevos, and they started shouting “YOU LIE!” whenever the insurance company bought-and-paid-for-whores in Congress held hearings…boy, just think how completely progressives could hijack the agenda.

    Oh…wait…that would require incivility. Then all the other liberals would go berserk, the way all you kooks and cranks and crackpots went berserk when I suggested mass non-violent demonstrations to shake Obama out of his dreamworld cocoon.

    Well, here’s a little addendum, crackpots — by this point, it’s clear that someone needs to bitch-slap President Obama. Maybe his closest advisors, maybe his wife, maybe his best friend, I don’t know who, but somebody, somewhere, has to grab Obama by the arm and bitch-slap him back into reality. “Hey, ” someone close to Obama needs to shout. “LISTEN UP! Afghanistan is another Viet Nam and you need to GET THE HELL OUT. And you need to do it NOW.”

    Somebody close to Obama needs to bitch-slap him and get his attention and shout “LISTEN UP! The single-payer option is the the only way universal health care can be made to work in America. YOU CAN’T TAKE IT OFF THE TABLE, JERKOFF! WAKE UP AND GET BACK TO REALITY, OBAMA!”

    Obama has drifted out into a dreamland where America isn’t circling the toilet bowl and the suction isn’t drawing it down. But back here in the real world, our medical-industrial complex is unsustainable and our military-industrial complex is unsustainable and our constant non-stop never-ending ever-expanding losing foreign wars in third world hellholes are unsustainable.

    And by “unsustainable,” I don’t mean, “inconvenient,” or “not pleasant.” I mean if we don’t stop this insanity, someday real soon now the insanity will stop because the wheels will come off and there’s going to be an economic-social crash that makes the global financial meltdown look like a holiday in the Bahamas, because America cannot keep spending 1.47 trillion dollars per year on our broken non-functional military (broadly defined) as well as 2.2 trillion dollars per year on our broken non-functional health system (projected to double to 4.4 trillion within 10 years) and run a 1.56 trillion dollar deficit per year and pay out 400 billion dollars a year to service our infinitely expanding national debt. Do the arithmetic. Ain’t happening.

    We have two choices, people. We can stop the insanity now, voluntarily. Or we can stop it later when America’s social-economic system crashes and burns.

    As for you crackpots who get hysterical when I suggest Obama needs to be bitch-slapped (because you think the President of the United States is some kind of sacred being and he’s godlike royalty and we must all tremble and fall to our knees and grovel when he passes by), you can shut up and go sit in the corner with your dunce caps on. This conversation is for adults.

  151. 151.

    JGabriel

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    What I find interesting is that the same nuts who scream about freedom will absolutely shit their pants when they have to prove they are citizens to get medical coverage.

    That’s the point. The GOP attitude to government is: If it might work, break it.

    .

  153. 153.

    Pug

    p.s. the sc senator who pulled the gun was killed in the civil war.

    Well at least the story had a happy ending.

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