Humor my Broder fixation. He pans Obama’s speech in Sunday’s Post:
But Obama does not tell people: “I want you to get used to the idea that eventually you may not get your coverage from your employer, and you will have to be a smart shopper, looking for the best deal you can get from competing insurance firms.”
Honestly, why stop here? Why not tell people that they need to be smart shoppers, looking for the best deal you can get from competing private police forces and road-builders? Yes, I know some libertarians do favor this, but I doubt Broder does.
Broder has pushed this idea before. What’s especially aggravating is that he pretends to be neutral in the debate, when he’s essentially taking the insurance industry’s side.
And what’s most troubling is that he’s actually accepted accommodations from the Western Conference of Prepaid Medical Service Plans, in violation of the Post’s rules on speaking engagements.
burnspbesq
Dude, why do you let Broder get to you this way?
In the words of an ancient wise man, “Never wrestle with a pig. You end up covered with shit, and the pig likes it.”
kommrade reproductive vigor
He also didn’t say Mother May I.
Clearly Brodie has never heard of Medicare Advantage. That fiasco has already shown sticking the magic word “Competition” on something doesn’t always work for consumer.
MK
I found this line from his article far more egregious:
Remind me again which party got Medicare recipients so scared that government was gonna take their health care away from them that talks about reforming Medicare got close to political suicide?
BTW, I’m disappointed in you, DougJ. I haven’t seen any field reports lately from the WaPo chats. Or have they not been taking place?
Travis
Man, I hate Broder. For years, he goes beating on the drum for bipartisanship as if it is literally the only thing in the world that matters. A president gets on stage and gives a detailed speech about bipartisanship leadership towards an important national goal, and it counts for nothing.
Can Broder talk about the policies Obama has proposed? Can he talk about the deliberate lies and misrepresentation, the explicit and implicit threats made by the right wing, the astro-turfing campaigns paid for by insurance companies? Can he mention a historic insult to the president on such a formal occasion? No, he’s got to natter on about how Obama could be better, ignoring specific proposals that Obama has made to address the very point about entitlements he complains about, and ignoring the flat-out obstructionism exhibited by the GOP.
It’s all just so fucking stupid. I need a beer.
General Winfield Stuck
Yes, I do my shopping with a discerning eye. For instance, when I look for news, I generally pass over the blather whorehouse called WAPO. I would rather be kissed before being skullfucked. So I generally prefer The Gray Lady/
Calming Influence
Broder? [cough cough Douchebag! cough]
Litlebritdifrnt
I am gonna take this thing waaaaaaay off topic right off the bat but really if everyone learned to become a “smart shopper” then the worry over paying for anything would not be quite so much of a problem. Me? I never buy anything new, unless I absolutely, really, I mean hold my feet to the fire can’t help it. Basically everything you could ever need is out there in thrift stores, consignment stores, yard sales, auctions, you name it. We cool people basically need to live off those idiot spendthrifts, that buy more clothes than they could ever wear, that spend their money on the most expensive and fashionable appliances and then quickly tire of them, they then end up in thrift stores (all of my bread machines that I use at least three times a week came from thrift stores).
As for health insurance if people were ALLOWED to shop around (which of course they are not) it would bring down the costs immediately. I mean why would I pay $60.00 for a pair of jeans that I can get at the thrift store for $2.75?
Somebody
Rules?
Rules are for lesser people.
Somebody
@Litlebritdifrnt
“As for health insurance if people were ALLOWED to shop around (which of course they are not) it would bring down the costs immediately. I mean why would I pay $60.00 for a pair of jeans that I can get at the thrift store for $2.75?”
Because OHGODMYSPLEENJUSTEXPLODEDSOMEBODYPLEASEHELPMEOHDEARJESUS
arguingwithsignposts
I can’t recall who it was in a previous thread who said everyone of the commenters on health care should state where they get their coverage from at the bottom of their columns or in their newscasts. I heartily agree.
El Cid
But Broder has no choice except taking this position, because if he doesn’t criticize Obama as a dangerous, government-expanding over-liberal extremist, then conservatives will whine and yell and write him angry letters, and, in the end, isn’t that the most important thing in our Republic?
jetan
“They trashed the place. And it wasn’t their place.”
Cat Lady
@arguingwithsignposts:
Totally agree, but it’s always shut up that’s why.
DougJ, we’ll humor you about Broder for a while longer, but dude, why are you cruising for Broder on Friday night?
Mark S.
@General Winfield Stuck:
I get you general point, but what does this mean? If I have to get skullfucked, maybe a kiss beforehand might be better or worse, I don’t know.
As for the Dean of Concern Trolling, let’s blame people who get their health care from their employers and from Medicare. Hey asshole, you know what no other country in the world has? For-profit insurance for basic coverage. Maybe that’s what our problem is.
DougJ
BTW, I’m disappointed in you, DougJ. I haven’t seen any field reports lately from the WaPo chats. Or have they not been taking place?
They’ve been pretty boring recently. The last interesting one was the one about Jenna Bush, which I did report back on.
IndyLib
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I agree in a general way with what you’re saying, I love getting a good deal on something I can find used, it’s just not always possible in non-urban areas, in my experience. My home town had 2 tiny thrift stores and maybe 8-10 garage sales on the weekends in the summer and early fall, but none Oct-April because of the weather. Even where I live now, halfway between Milwaukee and Chicago, if I wanted to shop that way it would require a huge amount of driving and searching and the garage sales aren’t an option here in the winter either.
DougJ
DougJ, we’ll humor you about Broder for a while longer, but dude, why are you cruising for Broder on Friday night?
If you must know, I’m sick, stuck at home, and the US Open has been rained out.
Calming Influence
I don’t want illegals getting one thin dime’s worth of health care, because I want to be sure my gardener, car detailer, valet parking attendent, and restaurant kitchen help to to remain rich reservoirs of Hepatitis, TB, Chagas Disease, and other nasty infectious diseases.
demkat620
When does he retire?
Polish the Guillotines
@Somebody: Rules are what keep the hoi polloi off my goddamn lawn.
Sloth
Nitwit on steroids. I mean, yeah, with any luck (although, since the current plans lean so heavily on employer provided insurance, not soon) you will be shopping for health insurance. And this is good. And there are things like ehealthinsurance.com and the mass.connector website and even brokers (!) just like, you know, normal insurance? And that’s pretty OK, isn’t it?
Frankly, I *wish* I could be a smart shopper. Bring it on, baby.
gnomedad
At the very least, because these are natural local monopolies? I’m not defending Broder, but this is a bad analogy.
drillfork
OT: Another hide for Glenn Beck and the crazies:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090911/ap_on_go_ot/us_census_acorn
drillfork
err, that should be, Glenn Beck and the OTHER crazies…
kth
I’ve always thought the best comparison was with some kind of catastrophic car trouble like total brake failure, that requires your car to be towed to the garage. How much comparison shopping have people generally done before such an event? How much bargaining are they in a position to do if/when such a thing occurs?
Or say you are in some weird Kafka-esque situation, and you needed a really good criminal lawyer, right this minute. What would you do?
Those situations seem more relevant than shopping for a plasma TV or whatever TF Broder is imagining.
MK
@Calming Influence:
Or, for that matter, the helping hands on poultry and dairy farms. What could possibly go wrong?
Comrade Luke
And then of course there’s Brooks, saying it was Obama’s finest speech because he’s moved to the center.
For all the railing on Broder at least he’s obvious. Brooks bothers me far more, because he’s so measured in his tone. It’s hard to fight him without being seen as a bully, even though the stuff he actually says is as far right as Broder, if not moreso.
Jim
No one wants to tell Broder or the Post management that Broder’s expiration date has been reached and he’s begun to smell.
General Winfield Stuck
@Mark S.:
It really doesn’t mean anything special but a rhetorical flourish. Half the shit I write hear is that, and the other half equally dubious.
It sorta means, at least as one with a post acid outlook on American culture, that I don’t believe anything I read out of hand. The rest is open for misunderinterpretation .
IndyLib
You mean the same way we shop for all other insurance?
Calming Influence
@MK:
Yes! And meat packing plants! “Jimmy Dean’s Pure Pork Salmonella!” UMMMMMMmm!
General Winfield Stuck
I Hear you.
are you here.
Calming Influence
And also, to no one in particular, if the “public option” is available to only those who can’t afford private insurance, it’s not much of an option for the public, now is it?
Well? Is it?
JK
@DougJ:
Doug,
Thanks for highlighting the work of David Broder. Given the fact that his colleagues regard him as the Dean of the Washington Press Corps, his views matter and his column continues to carry weight.
I’m all in favor of you continuing to shine a spotlight on him.
Calming Influence
Sorry Dougj, I realize I’ve been treating this like an open thread. I forgot we were discussing David [cough cough Douchebag! cough] Broder.
Slipped my mind. Won’t happen again.
General Winfield Stuck
@Calming Influence:
This part of the winger critique is at least somewhat accurate. The only way to sell a PO right now is for only low income persons who cannot afford a decent private policy. Theoretically, the insurance reform part will eliminate the other reasons for denial like pre-existing conditions.
However, if it’s becomes popular the poverty rate level trigger can be adjusted upward down the road so more people can qualify./ But it is inaccurate to suggest a PO will eventually take over all of HC insurance, as there will be many who just don’t want to mess with the government, and those wealthy enough to purchase higher grade private insurance.
Even in England where the government runs all healthcare delivery, there is still a market for private insurance.
And without first proposing it as just for say like 150 or 200 percent above the poverty line, or whatever it is, it would have given opponents more ammunition to attack it. It would also have made it more difficult for some Senator’s and CCrs to vote for.
General Winfield Stuck
Let’s live dangerously :)
Calming Influence
@General Winfield Stuck:
But we’ve already capitulated on single payer, and the idea behind the public option was that it would introduce competition into the health insurance market. But with Obama’s proposal, if I’m making more than 200% (or whatever) above the poverty line, I’m in the “No Competition Zone”, where I can’t be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition, but I sure can be screwed like a $10 whore by private insurance. And if Baucus has his way, fined $3,800 for not taking that screwing and liking it.
Doesn’t seem like the insurance companies would complain about that; maybe that’s why their stock prices went up today.
Davis X. Machina
in violation of the Post’s rules on speaking engagements.
Those would be, I imagine, similar to a Claude Rains Memorial Gaming Control Act.
JGabriel
Could someone please inform Broder that the vast majority of Obama’s voters did NOT vote for him because they want bipartisanship, but because they were fucking sick of Republicans?
.
Davis X. Machina
When does he retire?
The Post is the journalistic equivalent of the Hotel California — Broder has already retired, he just can’t leave.
General Winfield Stuck
@Calming Influence:
I do see your point. By making it only available to a fixed segment of the population, it is not going to have the cost lowering effect Obama says it will. Because it will not be directly competing with private insurers. It is a conundrum and seems (is) silly to do it this way. But such is the state of our politics that blue dog dem CCr;s have so many morans in their states who fear the government taking over our lives completely,. I don’t get it, and likely never will. It is just realty that has to be dealt with in the best way possible way, which usually is the dumbest way possible. Scratches Head.
bystander
Must be that the WaPo has only a single plan for their employees. Pity. Some of us who have been confronted with three or four employer subsidized health care plans have been smart shoppers for awhile. No, David Broder. You do NOT have health insurance, at all.
MattF
…and shopping around for medical care would be so fast and easy– anyone could do it, no particular knowledge or data required… And as Broder would no doubt assure us, there are no differences in competence or temperament and all doctors provide exactly the same services, no doctor has any particular areas of expertise, so… it’s just a matter of cost. Cheaper is better, and much cheaper is much better. Right?
Calming Influence
@Davis X. Machina:
Never retired, already embalmed: It’s the same as the old “Abe Lincoln” animatronics at Disneyland.
JK
A Suggestion For All Future David Broder Related Posts
Doug,
Every future post concerning David Broder should be accompanied by the following quote so that people can see just how incredibly imperious he is.
“He [Bill Clinton] came in here and he trashed the place, and it’s not his place.” – David Broder
kommrade reproductive vigor
@JGabriel: In a post-1/20/09 world, a president who doesn’t receive 100% of the popular vote must appease the people who didn’t vote for him!
Davis X. Machina
I came across the Young Broder being wowed by Nixon’s not-yet-campaign airplane (he was working his comeback, in 1966, IIRC) in Rick Perlstein’s Nixonland the other night.
Man’s been a tool longer than many of you have been alive.
Calming Influence
@General Winfield Stuck:
It is a total headscratcher. What’s frustrating is that polling shows that solid majorities, even in red districts, are behind the choice of a public option. It should be like selling ice in the desert, and there’s almost overwhelming evidence from other countries that even if we end up having to ram a public option through, it will become so popular that people won’t ever go back. And yet our Dems are so timid!
Come on team, the goal line is so close…
Cat Lady
@DougJ:
LOLWUT? I’m disappointed about not being able to watch the Open too, but looking for Broder wouldn’t have been in my top 100 things to do instead.
General Winfield Stuck
@Cat Lady:
I gave up a while ago trying to redirect DougJ’s obsession with Broder and WAPO in general. It is a force of nature apparently.
Scott
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
In a post-1/20/09 world, a president who doesn’t receive 100% of the popular vote must appease the people who didn’t vote for him!
Unless the president is a Republican. All Republican presidents get overwhelming mandates and refusing to kowtow to their mandates mean you hate America.
The Grand Panjandrum
Whoa! This is Way Off Topic but interesting. Did Andrew Sullivan get special treatment from our legal system?
After reading the entire piece it appears he did indeed get special treatment.
I understand his why his lawyer made this move for him, but after everything I read at Sully’s blog this really is disappointing. He’s been on the forefront of arguing for the rule of law and bringing Bush administration officials to justice on war crimes charges. I know his offense was basically a parking ticket but for some reason this just irks the hell out of me.
kelly
Wow, what a shock. After shitting his pants over late term abortionist being murdered, Cole has nothing to say about an anti-abortionist being murdered. I guess by Cole’s logic, it was Keith Olbermann’s fault the guy was killed.
Liberal hypocrisy is a redundant phrase.
JK
David Broder and the Limits of Mainstream Liberalism
h/t http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1251
David Broder’s Hit Parade
Washington Post columnist David Broder (9/4/05) even suggested that the hurricane [Katrina] offered Bush a political blank slate of sorts:
“We cannot yet calculate the political fallout from Hurricane Katrina and its devastating human and economic consequences, but one thing seems certain: It makes the previous signs of political weakness for Bush, measured in record-low job approval ratings, instantly irrelevant and opens new opportunities for him to regain his standing with the public.”
Washington Post political reporter David Broder (6/7/07), under the headline “Candidates Lacking a Real-World Clue,” worked much the same ground, lamenting that “Democrats brushed aside concerns about the impact of their votes to cut off funding for the troops in Iraq or the larger implications of a precipitous withdrawal from that country.” Broder argued that top-polling candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had been pushed left by “four long-shots” and John Edwards, and “have abandoned their cautious advocacy of a phased withdrawal of U.S. forces and now are defending votes to cut off support for troops fighting insurgents in Iraq.”
David Broder, expressed approval (Washington Post, 7/14/88) that Dukakis “sent an unmistakable message to the activist constituencies of the Democratic Party that the days of litmus-test liberalism are finished.”
With polls showing growing opposition to the Iraq War and an increasing distrust for the White House, one might think that the press corps would be willing to re-examine how the threat from Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction was used to lead the country into war. But for many pundits, the origins of the Iraq War are old news. As the Washington Post’s David Broder argued on NBC’s Meet the Press (11/27/05), there’s no point in raising such questions: “This whole debate about whether there was just a mistake or misrepresentation or so on is, I think, from the public point of view largely irrelevant. The public’s moved past that. The public wants to know what we’re going to do next in Iraq.”
h/t Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting
HRA
IndyLib: “You mean the same way we shop for all other insurance?”
I did that once for homeowners insurance. The new provider was recommended by a relative. Within a few months I received a notice from them terminating my policy. Their excuse was I had too many layers on my roof. For the 15 years I had been in this house, the roof looked good and was doing fine. We were replacing a sewer line out front as I was scrambling back to beg my original homeowners insurance provider to reinstate my original policy when the backhoe hit the gas line. Now I had to scramble herding grownups and kids visiting us to the farthest corner of the property. No one was hurt. No damage was done to house, cars or property. The gas company sent me a bill. I called and told them about my insurance circumstances. The insurance company that dropped me had to pay the bill. It was sweet revenge.
As for the options provided for health insurance, I had the choice of 3 when I became employed in my current job. They were Empire Blue, Independent Health and an HMO. That is how they stacked up in price, too. I picked Independent Health. Am I totally satisfied with it? No, I can’t be for I once had the cream of the crop in Blue Cross & Blue Shield and I never paid a cent for it. The clock won’t turn back. For years, I had no claims other than a once in a while office visit to my doctor. Now that I need more treatments, I am constantly plagued with questionnaires and requests for information.
noncarborundum
Shorter Broder: Obama didn’t warn you that his socialistic program might bring about a right-winger’s dream insurance market.
noncarborundum
Sorry. That’s “soci ali stic program.”
JK
@The Grand Panjandrum:
It irks me too.
gnomedad
Sully discovers Hayek was a socialist.
gnomedad
@gnomedad:
Shit, I said the s-word!
Fencedude
@kelly:
Cry me a river.
The Grand Panjandrum
@kelly: Cole has been traveling all day. He noted in an earlier post that he would be limiting his intake of news while out of pocket. Sorry to disappoint you, but your concern is noted.
The Grand Panjandrum
@JK: The US Attorney is even more irksome. They regularly prosecute these charges when the individuals don’t pay the fine and the judge even noted that on that day the docket had several individuals facing charges.
Anyone know if this would be grounds for appeal?
General Winfield Stuck
@kelly:
Unless it is shown to be politically motivated, then it is like all the other sad cases of homicide in this violent country. And since the shooter was also after 3 others, it looks more like a personal type vendetta. And if it turns out to be a hate crime, I will say it shouldn’t have happened but that it is only one left side bad act of murder, compared to how many dead now from right wing violence?
And if you morons don’t stop hollering about insurrection while armed to the teeth, it is likely not the last.
Calouste
@The Grand Panjandrum:
I can’t see why you are surprised about that. Sullivan prouly call himself a conservative, a capital C Conservative. First rule of capital C Conservatism: rules and laws are there for other people, the little people.
jwb
O@Comrade Luke: well, Brooks is a lot smarter than Broder. I’m no fan of the man’s work but I don’t think he’s actively stupid. Really I can’t even read Broder any more.
conumbdrum
I recall reading Hunter S. Thompson’s Fear and Loathing On the Campaign Trail ’72 (a crucial read on the sausage mak – er, POLITICAL process), and having my jaw hit the floor when Thompson admiringly describes David Broder as an honest and principled journalist.
My question: was Hunter overloading on the controlled substances when he wrote that, or has Broder gone into a long, agonizing decline since Nixon vs. McGovern?
Ash Can
@kelly: You have to understand two things: We don’t take right-wing arguments at face value here, and we don’t put up with false equivalencies. Go back home, study some more, and do better next time.
IndyLib
@HRA:
It’s all ridiculously complicated and difficult, even car insurance. Which is the point, Broder acts like it’s some weird thing that Americans will never be able to figure out, but we have to do it already for the other insurance we have to have. I would like to see non-profit groups developed who will take on the job of rating out the health insurance plans in the exchange backed up with stats and cost analysis, kind of like a factcheck.org for health insurance.
Chad N Freude
@Davis X. Machina: Well, we’ll always have smart shopping in Paris.
Chad N Freude
@MattF: Medical care is a fungible commodity. Everybody knows that.
Chad N Freude
@kelly: If you actually take the trouble to read the press reports (press reliability issues notwithstanding), you might consider the possibility that the murder was not related to the victim’s position on abortion.
Ash Can
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Boy howdy! I own a number of nifty little luxuries that I have no business in the world owning, except for the fact that the people running the tag sales where I bought them didn’t know and/or didn’t care what they were. Second-hand goodies FTW!
Zzyzx
Come on, if you want to have fun, read Reason’s attempt at Obama’s speech. Not only should medicare be destroyed but the gap created by defunding it should be covered by selling off our national parks, presumably to developers. And when you finish picking your jaw off the floor from reading, “Since many on fixed incomes would have trouble buying even inexpensive insurance. I propose we sell off the 507 million acres that the federal government owns and give the proceeds to the oldest and most needy,” go to the comments where that’s not libertarian enough:
“Why do the oldest and most needy get the proceeds? They’ve already proven they can’t handle basic finances and, will rob their grandchildren into bankruptcy to get more sweet sweet meds.
“How about you give the proceeds to people who’ve proven they can be responsible with money?”
So an argument about health care becomes, “Sell off all national parks and then give the money to the rich just because.” And Libertarians wonder why they never get their ideas taken seriously…
Betsy
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Um, because health care is not a normal good/service? Because people don’t usually donate their used health insurance to Goodwill?
General Winfield Stuck
@Chad N Freude:
Typical Libtard. Cares about details.
Sly
That’s their final argument for just about every domestic policy debate and, to be fair, it genuinely makes sense if you subscribe to the tenets of Social Darwinism.
Which they do. If there was such a game as Libertarian Bingo, the free space would be replaced with a tile bearing the words “Undeserving Poor”. Just like “All Palestinians are Terrorists” is the center square for Neoconservative Bingo.
david1234
I do not get what Broder is saying.
Why will employers stop providing health plans? Most people who with employers tha offer health plans can choose from several plans and have some money deducted from their salaries based on the plan that they choose. How is there a new incentive to be a smart shopper?
The problem right now is that it is impossible to be a smart shopper when buying an individual health plan, becuase the company may raise your rates or try to cancel you policy if you get sick. Isn’t that a good enough reason for the Obama’s reforms?
Mike P
You know what’s sad…David Broder has been writing the same exact shit since before I was born (literally). For those who have not done so, go read “Boys on the Bus”. You jaw will probably job when you see a much younger Broder appear in the narrative doing and saying very much the same things he says and does now.
Also, he’s not a drinker. Which is enough of a reason for me to disregard the vast majority of what he says.
CalD
Such a mean old man. Such a dirty old man.
— The Beatles
TenguPhule
Do not be alarmed, this is a perfectly normal situation.
It’s when he seems to make sense that you should be worried.
Balconesfault
Used Health Insurance! Woot!
Zzyzx
@Sly: I see no reason to be fair to anyone who thinks that opening up Yellowstone to developers and then on top of that giving the money to Bill Gates (although probably not him because he *gasp* gives his money away) is a good idea…
kelly
re: winfield scott:
oh, like Van Jones called for armed revolution and the destruction of the entire American system?
And learn to keep up with the news: he _was_ killed because of his anti-abortion stance.
So live with it, hypocrites. You can’t have it both ways.
Deschanel
Live with this, dear Kelly: it’s unclear what the shooter’s intentions were at this point- except that of his 3 intended victims , only your hero had anything to do with the abortion debate. So STFU about martyrdom.
Kelly, do you approve of someone who for many years exposed young schoolchildren to large graphic images of aborted fetuses without their consent? I am truly curious. I’m not saying he should be shot. I’m saying someone that incredibly antisocial, a creep targeting kids and exposing them to graphic bloody images for years was bound to make enemies. He seems like a deeply unpleasant person, your hero. A middle aged man haunting schools for years with violent bloody imagery? You’re okay with that?