Prepare for a complete and total shit fit from the 101st Chairborne, because the US is canceling the construction of missile defense sites in Czech Republic and Poland.
I’ll wait for Larison’s take, but I will say this- what would you think if China or Russia were building missile sites in Mexico, Cuba, and Puerto Rico? How do you think we would react to that?
BTW- Every time I think of missile defense I am reminded of the John Rogers classic from several years back- “I Miss Republicans.” His word-fu is strong.
*** Update ***
Should have known Goldfarb would have the vapors.
asiangrrlMN
Cole, you are really adorable when you try to apply logic to wingnuttery!
*Chucks you under the chin and then runs away.
J.W. Hamner
For the first two I wouldn’t care, but the last would be a literal challenge to our sovereignty… being that Puerto Rico is a territory and all.
Robert Sneddon
It’s like the secret history of the Cuban Missile crisis, the one they don’t teach American kids about. The Soviets planned to install short-range missiles in Cuba after President Kennedy refused to dismantle the US Thor missiles aimed at the Soviet Union which were installed in Turkey and Italy. After the brinkmanship over the Cuban missiles the US acceded to Soviet demands and the Thor missiles were quietly decommissioned soon after.
scarshapedstar
Shoulda called ’em weather balloons from the get-go…
Brian J
How can we afford health care for our citizens if we can’t afford to build (almost certainly useless, counterproductive) missile defense operations in Eastern Europe? I mean, really, where the eff are the Obama administration’s priorities?
On an unrelated note, via Steve Benen, we see that the dummies who went to D.C. over the weekend are now complaining because there wasn’t adequate public transportation to handle their fat asses. Seriously.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_09/019981.php
paradox
It’s not exactly the bold move of rationality one would assume at first take, there’s still all kinds of talk to set it up so the horrible Iranians don’t wipe them out.
Just chuck the whole god damn thing and forget about the Iranians. Hello? It’s not and never will be in their interest to fire missiles at anyone, not with NATO right there.
I’m sick of all the fear. For Christ’s sake, grow up, be brave and forget all this, there’s nothing here.
Beth in VA
I have a feeling people will call Obama a wimp for not standing up to the Commie bullies, but he’s actually being the tough guy standing up to the right-wing, jingoistic bullies operating in the Republican party.
linda
isn’t it interesting that with all of the talk about the unaffordability of healthcare for the citizens of this country, there has never, ever once been included in the conversation the grotestque, obscene portion of the u.s. treasury that goes to these unworkable — but highly profitable boondoggles — to the war profiteering corporations.
and in other healthcare news. one of the villagers own — georgie ann geyer — was cancelled by her insurance company once she was diagnosed with tongue cancer. i wonder if that will get their attention, since similar stories of average americans are sooooooo boring.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0917geyersep17,0,1000672,print.story
jibeaux
I’m trying to work up a “you forgot Poland” joke, but nothing’s coming to me.
Jack
The ’empathy’ observation about Ayn Rand and Dick Cheney a couple of days back really cleared a bunch of things up for me.
The neo-con/wingnut core *cannot* put themselves in another man’s shoes. They cannot understand how Russia or China would feel if our roles were reversed, they cannot understand how Iraq and Afghanistan would feel to have us invade and occupy them. They cannot even understand how other people in their own country feel.
The Golden Rule never seemed that profound to me, until now.
MikeJ
I heard a Polish official interviewed today who said that they really didn’t care about the missile defense part, they just wanted a military base with a sizable number of American troops. We shouldn’t waste our money doing that, but if we were to there’s no reason to have those troops manning a boondoogle.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Robert Sneddon:
After the brinkmanship over the Cuban missiles the US acceded to Soviet demands and the Thor missiles were quietly decommissioned soon after.
Yeah it’s funny how no one ever mentions that part much.
Because negotiating with enemies of course is against the Wingnut (i.e. Villager) catechism. We never did it, in the Villager Approved version. We just looked em steely in the eye and they folded.
Bootlegger
A Pollock with a slingshot would be as effective as that multi-billion dollar missile “defense system”, but the Chairborne Rangers can’t masturbate to that thought.
DBrown
What in the fuck does NATO need local missles to stop Iranian missles that still don’t exist with nukes that not only don’t exist but even if Iran decides to build some, would take tens years? Like we don’t already have enough military costs? Are these people who suport such a system so past brain dead that they are now trying to suck blood from a turnip?
Whats left?
The Grand Panjandrum
According to the wingnuts Obama is a commie. How can you blame the Russians for not wanting those missiles built in their backyard. Nobody wants a commie building missile sites anywhere near their borders. Shit we didn’t, right?
Bill E Pilgrim
If McCain were President he’d be insisting that they be installed in Czechoslovakia and along the Iraq/Pakistan border.
“But sir, there is no Czecho….”
“Just do it! Or I’ll get someone who will!”
Bootlegger
Tom the Dancing Bug has Obama figured out.
rachel
Are the Russians even Commies anymore?
Bootlegger
@MikeJ: Couldn’t we just hire private contractors to set up a giant fratboy spa complete with hazing and two story beer bongs? It worked in Kabul.
Bill E Pilgrim
@The Grand Panjandrum: Actually that’s a very good point. Plus if he ever used them, it should seem like an own goal, to the Wingnuts. So they should be against it.
Comrade Jake
This really does make a lot of sense, seeing as how Obama’s a Communist. /Glenn Beck
Demo Woman
No problem with the teabaggers because they are truly concerned with the amount of government spending. That is exactly why u won’t hear a peep out of them.
Also the teabaggers are for government directly funding student loans rather than paying banks, so we can save another 90 billion over ten years.
Keith G
Listen, I am for anything that get us in better stead with Putin. We must be able to negociate with this man.
No more shirtless pictures, please!
Dork
I thawt that the missle defense shit didnt work. Why would we be installing this crap if it didnt work?
ellaesther
@J.W. Hamner: Damn! You are right. And I am horrified that I didn’t notice myself.
MikeJ
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:RTN
Dave Ruddell
After the brinkmanship over the Cuban missiles the US acceded to Soviet demands and the Thor missiles were quietly decommissioned soon after.
I believe that they were Jupiter missiles. The Thors went to the UK.
GReynoldsCT00
“what would you think if China or Russia were building missile sites in Mexico, Cuba, and Puerto Rico? How do you think we would react to that?”
because it hasn’t been said yet, I must
WOLVERINES!
ellaesther
what would you think if China or Russia were building missile sites in Mexico…?
Possibly the single biggest problem with the GOP/the American right/the right-wing of any political society that I can bring to mind at this moment (thinking of Israel, for instance, my other home) is the guiding notion that: We are not like other people.
We are special/better/more needy/bigger victims/SPECIAL DAMN IT — so all your comparisons and efforts to draw analogies are pointless! We are not like Them! If we put missiles in our quasi-enemy’s backyard, it’s to protect our legitimate interests and we can totes be trusted because WE ARE SPECIAL! If they put missiles in our backyard, it’s a sign of how right we were not to trust them, because they have always been out to get us and we are SPECIAL!
Awesom0
@Robert Sneddon
If I remember properly, the US was already (quietly) planning on removing their intermediate range missiles from Turkey, but went public with it as a face saving gesture to the Soviets so Khruschev (sp?) could pull back from Cuba without looking like he completely collapsed to US demands.
At least that’s my recollection from the definitive book on the subject, “Essence of Decision” by Graham T. Allison.
Of course, none of this is related to the decision to cancel the missile shield in Europe (which was the right decision to make). Good on Obama/Gates!
General Winfield Stuck
@The Grand Panjandrum:
No No No. Obama is HItler. The former but not now commies hated Hitler and might blow shit up if he sets up shop so close to the former non commie now oil tycoon gangsta Russkies. I know it’s confusing, that’s why we have the Beck Bouncing Ball. Just follow it and the world will make sense.
Bootlegger
@Awesom0: That’s the official story line anyway. I’ve always kind of thought the missiles in Poland thing was more a negotiating ploy than a reality.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Bill E Pilgrim: Yes. AND the teabaggers sould be snapping up Kanye CD’s at a pace to make them go platinum by the end of the week, no? Obama’s thinks he’s a jackass, hence he must be fabulous and a real American! Go Team! Yay!
someguy
I know this is ridiculously pedantic but I’m pretty sure that the sites that were cancelled were *missile defense* sites, not missile sites. My understanding of our current missile defense systems is that they do not have an offensive capacity, in contrast to the old Nike-Herc system.
fish
I think John has finally read some Chomsky.
MattF
Long-range missile defense is kind of a boondoggle anyhow– Obama’s going with short- and medium- range missiles (aimed towards defense to Iranian missiles) that actually work. I’d be interested to know what Gates’ position was.
truculent and unreliable
@Dork: Again with the logic, man!
Plus, St. Ronnie said that it would totally work, so who are we to question, like, facts and tests and stuff?
linda
bwahahahaha — comment at wapo:
DonnyKerabatsos wrote:
Does any body else see the complete irony in making this announcement on this day, 17 SEP 2009.
Exactly 70 years ago TODAY, the Russians (Soviets) opened the second front on Poland which assured it’s destruction.
Again, Poland’s “Allies” abandon her.
Nice timing Obama administration!!! I bet Poland doesn’t feel too loved today.
General Winfield Stuck
They do now. N***** Rigged with Murv’s . Or your MUltiple Unicorn Re-entry Vehicles.
Norman Rogers
Kudos to the President for standing up to our procurement nightmare and our out-of-control defense spending for technology that, sadly, simply won’t work the way we need it to. The road to fiscal sanity is paved with making cuts where we can cut.
I don’t subscribe to the theory that this is an appeasement of Russia–Russia has a rapidly diminishing military and a population decline that all but ensures that it will never be able to sustain a land invasion of Western Europe, which is what those of us who followed the Cold War believed inevitable. What the lack of little babushkas cannot finish off, sweet vodka from a plastic bottle in a crumbling sack will finish for us. Das vadanya, comrade. Sorry about your glorious empire. Pull up your pants when you’re done–you’re embarrassing yourself in full view of the Kremlin.
What this does do, foreign policy wise, is remove the Czechs and Poles from a position of being defense partners with us, and that’s really what missile defense was going to accomplish, even if it didn’t work. It would have allowed us to form a relationship with the defense establishment in those two countries that might have paid off in a future alliance. With cemented ties to the Czechs and Poles, who’s to say they wouldn’t have been willing to help us with possible future issues with Belarus, the Balkans, or some other foreign misadventure? The Poles coughed up troops for Iraq until they got wise. More friends, more partners, more cooperation–who could complain about that?
The key to transforming American foreign policy was the establishment of working relationships with as many diverse partners as possible. President Obama has yanked away one chance to work closely with the Czechs and Poles. I hope he has a couple of others in mind and can forge similar relationships or find something to replace what we are discontinuing.
AkaDad
Obama just threw the Czech Republic and Poland under the bus.
someguy
Screw Poland. What have they ever done for us?
We’re not the World’s Policeman, contrary to what the social studies texts in my youth said. If Russia wants Poland and the Czech Republic, they can take them. Not our problem. And 17 Sep is some sweet, sweet irony. I’m sure the Poles will get the message: find some other superpower to interpose between yourselves and Russia.
tess
Oh, John. Everyone knows China and Russia aren’t inherently good like the United States!
That’s why the analogy, the what-if statements can never work: all others are capable of Evil, but America is not. Tie it in with the crazy worldview Fred Clark explains in his Left Behind series, and suddenly Teh Crazeee seems inevitable.
Max
Obama is just like Bush! or wait, what’s that… Nevermind.
good morning Balloon-Juice.
Citizen_X
Jeez, Obama, was it over when the Russians bombed Pearl Harbor?
No, this is good to hear; Obama’s chipping away at the Mother of All Boondoggles. If you’ve got financial difficulties, the last thing you should do is spend money on really expensive things that don’t work.
(But, by the Wingnut Doctrine of Transubstantiation, isn’t Missile Defense the very Body of Reagan? This could get ugly.)
And here’s my vote for quitting the World’s Policeman job. We can’t afford the ~1000 global bases anymore. You cannot be the global hyperpower if you lead in weaponry, but are no longer the world leader in economics, natural resources, innovation, and cultural influence. We used to be at or near the top in all those things, but no more.
That’s really what the present days are all about, politically: how to do the UK trick, going from being the world’s top dog to–pace Johhny Rotten–just another country. The Bush-Cheney idea was to fight against reality with all our might, throwing out every ideal we might have aspired to in the bargain. I hope Obama’s going down another path.
Xanthippas
But how will we defend Europe from all those Iranian nukes that will be used to destroy Israel??? Oh wait…
calling all toasters
I’m sure the Poles will get the message: find some other superpower to interpose between yourselves and Russia.
Is there another superpower peddling phony defense technology? Maybe Sarah Palin can sell them head-rearing annihilators, or somesuch.
Oh, and BTW, this was all Cheney’s idea of dick-swinging– the Czechs (at least) don’t want our crap.
Ash Can
I hope the septic and sewage systems in the red states make it through the day.
GregB
I am sure that Georgia’s Saakashvili just took a dump in his pants and started chewing on his tie again.
-G
ral
Dear God in heaven, please tell me that you do know that Puerto Rico is US territory and therefore just a little different than Cuba or Mexico when it comes to issues like this.
I mean, what iof they build them in New Mexico, what would we do??
I know, all those brown people look alike, so it’s hard to tell sometimes whether they’re REAL Americans, isn’t it?
Teh stoopid, it hurts.
General Winfield Stuck
How long before John Bolten writes his obligatory “now we’re all going to die” oped? One wooden nickel says in the WSJ by end of business today.
Mike in NC
If there was ever a “shovel-ready” project, it was a trillion dollar unworkable missile defense system that was decades in development. I know guys who made a load of money and spent entire careers on this crap. The eastern Europeans wanted some of that wingnut welfare. Stand by for push-back from Kristol, Krauthammer, and the rest of the mob. Who’ll be the first Republican congressman to demand impeachment by the end of the week?
Hesiod
Imagine if, say, the Russians were building missile silos 90 miles away in Cuba! That’s just crazy talk though. Nothing like that would or could ever happen. And, even if it did, I’m sure we’d have no problem with it.
So lighten up Pootie Poot!
John Cole
@ral: Yes, I know Puerto Rico is ours, I’ve been there several times on vacation and a couple times for conferences. I’m talking geographic proximity. Would it make you feel better if I said the Dom. Rep.? Or Canada?
Xanthippas
That might be true, except it was a black guy interrupting a white girl and thus further evidence of the increased uppity-ness of blacks in the wake of Obama’s election.
CalD
This should be good.
Mike Toreno
If it was an ABM site, I don’t think I’d care. They want to waste their money, OK with me.
DBrown
@Norman Rogers: So the tens of thousands of warheads on thousands of land based, and hundreds of sea based ICBM’s that the Russians can launch make them a power we can ignore?
This ‘defensive system’ was always about the Iranians … the Iranians have so many ICBM and megaton nukes? and some many small nukes and their history of wars in Europe, backed now with vast tank armies and thousands of jet fighters and nuclear equiped bombers… wait, that is Russia.
Still, I am sure the Russians are not affraid of a large missle base designed to shoot down ICBM’s that is located right near the bulk of their land (and lately, even their sea based) systems. That wouldn’t threaten them in anyway.
BC
You’re missing the symbolism – Star Wars was St. Ronnie Reagan’s program. By messing with it, you are dissing St. Ronnie. The only reason this program has ever been popular with Republicans is because it was a Reagan fantasy.
Gravenstone
@Jack:
I beg to differ. The wingnuts knew full well how Russia and/or China would respond to these things. It’d piss them well and truly off. Feature, not bug, as they say.
pbg
Yes, the missile defense sites are all about the Iranians, because, while ineffective against the Inconvenient Ballistic Missiles the nonSoviet nonUnion has, it has a fine track record against Iranian model baking-soda rockets…
Norman Rogers
@DBrown: You haven’t read anything relevant in ten years, have you?
Rotting in their silos, my good man. The great weapons of the Soviet era are dismantled, cannibalized for spare parts, falling apart from neglect, rusting in their harbors, coming apart in their sheds, resting on flat tires. The Russian Army is virtually no more. The Red Army that could have swept everything into the English Channel in three weeks is gone.
Peruse the Google satellite maps some time–have a gander at the northern ports. Warship after warship that could have launched said missiles is sitting flat-bottomed in the water, rusting in the sun. It’s a glorious sight for an old Cold Warrior like myself. Russian army barracks are tumbledown affairs, abandoned or locked up, unused.
Iran’s capabilities aren’t worth much more than their own rotting, debilitated oil producing infrastructure. No, America’s enemies are complacency, greed, incompetence, hubris and fiscal insanity. They are not really to be found where nations cannot put a blue water navy to sea. Now, China, Brazil, and Pakistan–well, those are people worth fearing, I would reckon.
ellaesther
@John Cole: I know you weren’t talking to me, but yes, I would feel MUCH better if you had said Canada. Because anything about Canada is funnier than anything about Puerto Rico. That’s just tru fax, right there.
Also, not for nothing, but I for one presumed you had made a funny mistake, not that you didn’t, you know, know. For I know you to be wise and well-edumacated!
ellaesther
@ellaesther: (also, I am an idiot, because I thought you were replying to J.W. Hamner, not to ral, who was, in fact, presuming “teh stoopid” — rather unwisely, if you ask me! Anyhoo. Sorry about that. Don’t mind me. I’ll just let myself out).
M WIlson
The link to Rogers was one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time. Hysterical, it made my day.
Woodrow "asim" Jarvis Hill
@M WIlson: It’s almost a pity he had to cut back on the Political writing for the awesomeness that is his show LEVERAGE.
Although, given the overall theme of the show, mayhap he simply moved to a different medium. :)
srv
@someguy:
Actually defeat the Soviet Union, rather than claim credit for it like we do?
I predict we will be hearing a lot abou Neville Chamberlain very shortly.
Norman Rogers
@srv: I thought it was the Pope that defeated Communism–and he had to leave Poland to do it.
Norman Rogers
@M WIlson: My day is made when an angel in heaven bursts into flames because of something I have written–thank you. This old man is trembling and teary-eyed. Most people just tell me to go do horrible things to myself.
fortygeek
If you all enjoyed that little bit of word-fu from John Rodgers, might I suggest another of his masterpieces regarding terrorism.
Don’t have a beverage nearby. You will be cleaning it off your keyboard.
fortygeek
Dammit…linkage failure
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/08/wait-arent-you-scared.html
Maude
The Russians wanted to cut down on the enormous number of nukes and Bush said no.
Cheney was trying to gin up the Cold War, two wars weren’t enough for our Dick.
Reagan’s Star Wars was always out of left, or should it be right field.
If you explode and ICBM, where does the radiation go?
None of the missile defense systems have worked.
The Pentagon procurement was way over the top for the past thirty years. At least now, it is being looked over and Gates fights the gooblers in Congress who wanted the projects in their states to get them what they wanted.
Ike was right, but did nothing about it.
asiangrrlMN
I didn’t read the link the first time around, but John Rogers hits the nail on the head. Sadly, things have only gotten worse since he wrote that.
Comrade Dread
Well, you know, John. If Russia did it, It would be an example of Russia pursuing a belligerent foreign policy toward us that sought to neutralize our nuclear deterrent and strengthen their own hand to act as they please in the world. And it would be a possible first strike enabler designed to mop up the few missiles our missiles didn’t turn into radioactive slag first.
But, as with torture, human rights violations, invading other countries and supporting favored ethnic groups in their nationalist ideals, it’s all helpful if you can see things through the lens of American exceptionalism.
American Exceptionalism simply put means that when America does something it’s always for good and noble purposes, even if we would condemn another country for doing the exact same thing, because they wouldn’t be as exceptional as we are.
D-Chance.
I was never one [Republican] (nor a Democrat, really, more an agnostic libertarian big on the social contract, but we don’t have a party …)
So Cole swings from mocking and insulting “glibertarians”… to approvingly linking to them.
Heh…
Dave
Waiting for Larison’s take…?
There’s John Cole in a nutshell, looking for someone to be wrong with.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Some degree of sanity has prevailed, though it’s a mixed bag. I’m still going to have some of my money stolen and given to defense contractors to build pointless missile defense systems, but the most important part, the idiotic antagonizing of the Russians, is thankfully being walked back.
From the beginning even the most recalcitrant idiot knew that protecting the Poles from Iranian missiles was a laughable fiction. That leaves only the hopelessly deluded and the mass media buying into this Santa story. Yes, Obama continues to peddle it for domestic political reasons, but his actions signal that he knows better, and I’ve been expecting for some months now that he would find a way to walk back from it while maintaining his Empire bona fides.
Shalimar
I assume this is what Limbaugh was talking about when I briefly came across his radio program on the way home an hour ago. He was ranting about something being done intentionally on the anniversary of the German invasion of Poland. I guess because Obama is Hitler reincarnated. Thankfully for my stomach that was all I heard.
liberal
@Norman Rogers:
Uh, I would have thought that the simple solution would be “don’t go on foreign misadventures.”
liberal
@srv:
The Soviet Union actually defeated itself, with its shite economic system.
Cain
@BC:
Let’s take that one step further. Liberal fantasy was single payer health system by St. Kennedy which will help millions of Americans, cut healthcare costs for business and keep insurance companies honest. St. Ronnie’s dream is to have a star wars missile defense program that will go way over budget, move trillions of dollars to a small group of companies, and will not protect anyone in the end, as it will likely not work. If St. Kennedy can get his dream, wankers will want their wet dream too.. and they’ll cry and moan and line the walls with semen to get it!
cain
Cain
@Norman Rogers:
And boy they won’t need it, they got something much better.. economic power through oil and gas. Untapped resources ready to be shipped to whoever provided they pay the right price. With the permafrost going away thanks to global warming, all sorts of yummy stuff is coming. They’ll have all the cards.. and you can’t fuck them over like you can the muslims. Putin knows what he’s doing, the bastard.
cain
bcinaz
I anxiously await the soon-to-be youtube classic of John Boton’s head exploding on FOX
Norman Rogers
@liberal: It’s not a misadventure if you get to bring your friends along! Think Gulf War I, not Gulf War II-Electric Boogaloo.
Robertdsc-iphone
There has been precious little change I can believe in from this Administration, but this event fits the bill. Congrats, Mr. President.
Bruce Webb
@someguy:
Well it is ridiculously pedantic. Because the intercept vehicles were themselves missiles. I mean you could double down and call them anti-missile missile sites if that makes people feel better.
But here is a hint. If the system is capable enough of intercepting a ballistic missile in flight it is a trifle to have it transform from a surface to ballistic altitude weapon to one that goes surface to that altitude and then continues on a ballistic path to a ground target.
Thirty years ago I was a missile tech on a Tartar equipped guided missile destroyer. Tartars were designed as an anti-aircraft/anti-missile defensive weapon, which doesn’t mean we couldn’t hit a ship with it.
Bombs'R-Nuts
Yea that’s Going to be a real Titty Twister.
Avoid fox if you value your brain.
Bombs'R-Nuts
“Prepare for a complete and total shit fit from the 101st Chairborne”
Yea that’s Going to be a real Titty Twister.
Avoid fox if you value your brain.
Dale
I realize this isn’t the first time you’ve used it, and maybe you didn’t originate it, but I must say: the phrase “101st Chairborne” and I need to get a room. That is some top-shelf snark, that is.
Thanks.