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You are here: Home / Politics / Media / Compare and Contrast

Compare and Contrast

by John Cole|  September 21, 200911:32 am| 22 Comments

This post is in: Media, Military

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An enterprising journalist might look at this:

compareandcontrast

And after sampling the right-wing reactions, do a comparison to the reactions from those same people when Eric Shinseki correctly estimated we would need more troops in Iraq. I bet the results would be illuminating. He probably just had a book to sell.

Now, of course, this assessment from McChrystal will be the word of God and portrayed as “forcing” Obama’s hand.

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Reader Interactions

22Comments

  1. 1.

    norbizness

    September 21, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Does the related story “Afghan police say ‘stop dumping troops on us, you fucking dumbasses'” appear on Memeorandum?

  2. 2.

    Alex

    September 21, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Lindsay Graham was on FauxNews this morning with dire warnings that Obama’s “delay” in sending more troops was endangering the mission and dissing our troops in Afghanistan. On the next cut, the reporter noted that McChrystal hasn’t even requested more troops yet. . .

  3. 3.

    Ash Can

    September 21, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Hey, whoa. Is this now the GOP’s meme? Have they thrown in the towel on health care reform altogether? I’m going to be on the lookout for a huge cloud of dust to be raised by the GOP over military/war issues in the upcoming days, in an attempt to obscure a health care bill being passed by the Senate and sent to the prez.

  4. 4.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Y’know, at least in the good old days when the blog was down we’d be treated to our second-favorite blog, WordPress > Error.

    (off topic, obviously – but, hey, it’s been two-and-a-half hours since anybody posted topically, so I just figured the topic had lost interest. Ahem.)

  5. 5.

    Linkmeister

    September 21, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    I’m beginning to hear “Leaving would send the wrong message” from the political-military complex.

    If your message is more important than your mission, you shouldn’t be attempting the mission.

  6. 6.

    aimai

    September 21, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    Anybody remember how at the start of the Bush reign of error they “discovered” that a whole lot of senior military guys had been behaving adulterously and a bunch of people got bounced? If Rahm had the brains of Rove he’d find out who McChrystal’s been stupping and have the guy brought up on code violations. The leaking of this document to the washington post should be a firing offense. But it won’t be.

    aimai

  7. 7.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    September 21, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Jesus, Wolfowitz was an asshole, wasn’t he? I could feel my blood pressure spiking while I was reading that article.

  8. 8.

    BeccaM

    September 21, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    I’m still trying to figure out what exactly would constitute ‘success’ or ‘failure’ in Afghanistan. Or Iraq, for that matter.

    I mean, they always leave it so nebulous and ill-defined… or else put in glowing Nirvana-like terms of rainbow sparkly ponies for every good girl and boy that it’s a sheer impossibility… And never once does anyone on the pro-escalation side admit or take into account that the very presence of an occupying foreign military force is itself a source of destabilization, resentment, and violence.

    Not long ago, I think it was Lawrence Wilkerson who said that the entire overriding goal of Cheney was to get these wars started — and preferably in three countries at once: Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran. But the true insanity of it all came into play when Cheney was asked how or when these wars would end and his response was something along the lines of “Why should I care about that?”

    Truly, there doesn’t seem to be any goal, no end-point, except for perpetual war and ever increasing military budgets. (And for the deficit ‘hawks’: Absent the cost of those two wars, we could give everybody in America completely free healthcare.)

  9. 9.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 21, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    And after sampling the right-wing reactions, do a comparison to the reactions from those same people when Eric Shinseki correctly estimated we would need more troops in Iraq.

    Sampling right-wing reactions on any issue these days is a a perpetual Gumpism of not knowing what you’ll get. Other than how can we blame Obama. Afghanistan is a clusterfuck that was lost a long time ago by the neocon ADD on Iraq. Not that it could ever be “won” in the conventional sense of that word militarily. We could have given the non Taliban Afghans something worth fighting for with some basic infrastructure construction, schools, hospital, roads etc…./ But Bush fiddled as Afghanistan burned, so we have what he have. A day late and dollar short. Though Obama will likely have to go along with the Generals, at least until he gets reelected. Just like Nixon did with Vietnam. Even though the fickle American voter when asked won’t support an escalation, but will be prone to support less a presnit who is painted as weak by the GOP,. Crazy, but there it is.

  10. 10.

    Egypt Steve

    September 21, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    McChrystal = MacArthur (minus the victory over the Empire of Japan). Time for a walk on the beach.

  11. 11.

    terry chay

    September 21, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    If you the read the report, it actually says that they need a coherent mission, else even with more troops the failure is going to be greater.

    The whole situation there is quite depressing. :-(

    There is a very interesting bio of Richard Holbroke in this week’s New Yorker.

    Also Cole might be fascinated to read Jame’s Surowiecki’s piece titled “Ratings Downgrade”

  12. 12.

    Ash Can

    September 21, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    Hey, we’re back! (Maybe it was that, er, ad in the left margin that broke the site.)

    Anyhoo, @aimai:

    The leaking of this document to the washington post should be a firing offense. But it won’t be.

    I agree that heads may not roll, but I can’t imagine for a minute that Obama’s at all pleased about getting shown up by the guys at the Pentagon. The first thing I thought when I read about this was, “Hell, W fired commanders simply for disagreeing with him; what’s to stop Obama from acting accordingly in the case of gross insubordination?” I mean, for crying out loud — in any private business, any employee taking a complaint about the company to the customers rather than to the boss would get said employee’s ass smoked out the door so fast he’d barely glimpse the pavement before it hit his face.

    I’m wondering what Obama’s response to this will be, and I’d bet the ranch we won’t have any idea what it is unless it does involve personnel changes. Unlike the assholes — and I don’t care if they’re heavily decorated soldiers, that’s what they are — who went to the Washington Fucking Post with their complaints, Obama’s easily professional enough to keep his response behind closed doors.

  13. 13.

    Anne Laurie

    September 21, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    @BeccaM:

    I’m still trying to figure out what exactly would constitute ‘success’ or ‘failure’ in Afghanistan. Or Iraq, for that matter.

    If the Repubs can recapture the Senate in 2010, Afghanistan will be a success. If they can take back the Oval Office in 2012, Iraq will be a resounding success. If Iran can be turned into a well of radioactive glass as a result, it will be so triumphant a success that a handful of the most prominent Neocon “thinkers” will not survive their orgasmic rapture. What — you think these people give a shite about what happens to a few million wogs on the wrong side of the world? What are you, some kind of DFH?

    To be serious, the odds that “we” can obtain anything resembling a military success in Afghanistan are approximately equal to the odds that Mitt Romney will become President in 2012… and those are rather lower than the odds that my soft fat middle-aged self will win Donald Trump’s Miss Universe pageant next year. The people who say we’re in a Vietnam-in-1968 repeat are wrong, because in 1968 the Republicans hadn’t spent the previous 40 years looting the Treasury and the Vietnamese weren’t poised to export apocalyptic cultists bent on returning the entire world to their vision of a perfected fourteenth century.

  14. 14.

    smiley

    September 21, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    OT but may I suggest GOS for a G entry in the new Balloon Juice dictionary? I know it was coined by Atrios but it’s been used here and I’ve seen commenters ask what it means.

  15. 15.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    OT: does anyone else find the the newest post, Looner Calendar, loads with no comment box?

  16. 16.

    Leelee for Obama

    September 21, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    @Warren Terra: Yes, there’s one comment there, but no comment box pour moi!

  17. 17.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Apologies – posted to wrong thread, only noticed after I hit “Submit”. I have moved the comment to the correct thread (Comment #34)

  18. 18.

    Leelee for Obama

    September 21, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    There is an interesting article linked at Sully-don’t know the guy, but his opinion is this leaked report is much ado about the usual-think-tankers with no Afghanistan background working with McChrystal, coming up with what was expected and Obama is doing the due diligence we should expect. It’s good stuff.

  19. 19.

    BillCinSD

    September 21, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    @aimai: McChrystal should be fired for running JSOC, Cheney’s Murder Squad and overseeing torture at Camp Nama, but that’s not going to happen either

  20. 20.

    Bootlegger

    September 21, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    poised to export apocalyptic cultists bent on returning the entire world to their vision of a perfected fourteenth century.

    I don’t think we can abandon that part of the world. I’m not sure more troops are the answer, but we cannot let those thugs and bullies overrun and dominate whomever they like. The Taliban don’t believe in basic human rights, not for women, not for the GLBT community, and most certainly not for Infidel religions. Someone must stop them and protect innocent people. If not us, who?

    That said, I’m as dissatisfied as anyone at how things are rolling over there. Drunken contractors, corrupt Afghani politicians, missile strikes on rural wedding parties, our own young men and women coming home in boxes, none of it is any good. The loss of “blood and treasure” and the corrupting moral influence of warfare that legitimates torture are harsh prices to pay. But what is the alternative? Is it moral for us to abandon that place, those people, to the Taliban?

  21. 21.

    Bootlegger

    September 21, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    poised to export apocalyptic cultists bent on returning the entire world to their vision of a perfected fourteenth century.

    I don’t think we can abandon that part of the world. I’m not sure more troops are the answer, but we cannot let those thugs and bullies overrun and dominate whomever they like. The Taliban don’t believe in basic human rights, not for women, not for the GLBT community, and most certainly not for Infidel religions. Someone must stop them and protect innocent people. If not us, who?

    That said, I’m as dissatisfied as anyone at how things are rolling over there. Drunken contractors, corrupt Afghani politicians, missile strikes on rural wedding parties, our own young men and women coming home in boxes, none of it is any good. The loss of “blood and treasure” and the corrupting moral influence of warfare that legitimates torture are harsh prices to pay. But what is the alternative? Is it moral for us to abandon that place, those people, to the Taliban?

  22. 22.

    El Cid

    September 22, 2009 at 8:49 am

    Is the US foreign policy establishment going to start jacking off to the “SURGE” bullshit again, this time with Afghanistan? Falling all over themselves with more of this “counter-insurgency” horseshit and telling themselves we’re the Brits in Malaya or Kenya again? That’s the tell.

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