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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Star Wars references

Star Wars references

by DougJ|  September 21, 20095:43 pm| 110 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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We’re seeing more and more Star Wars references from conservatives. What’s up with that?

In Episode V of the “Star Wars” series, Darth Vader famously counseled Luke Skywalker, “You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger.”

But while the young Jedi resisted his father’s advice, Republican leaders should heed it — sort of.

[….]

So in the end, the Sith Lord was both right and wrong: Anger can be a potent electoral force, but it must be calibrated and controlled, not simply released. Republicans must act accordingly.

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Previous Post: « It Isn’t An Ideology, Charles
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Reader Interactions

110Comments

  1. 1.

    ellaesther

    September 21, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Because Dick Cheney is Darth Vader! I mean: Duh!

  2. 2.

    Deschanel

    September 21, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    They’re geeks with no social skills and no one will fuck them?

  3. 3.

    Stefan

    September 21, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    I would remind Republicans that anger to hate leads, and hate leads to suffering.

    Still, I guess they’re at hate already, so one step left!

  4. 4.

    Zifnab

    September 21, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Seriously? This is their advice? Listen to Dick Cheney Darth Vadar? I’m waiting for the GOP to just change it’s logo to a big bullseye with the words “HIT ME” written over the top of it. They make it too easy.

  5. 5.

    r€nato

    September 21, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    What’s up with that? It’s the same dysfunction which leads them to make national security policy pronouncements based upon some episode of 24.

    We’re in the reality-based community and they are living in la-la land.

  6. 6.

    Stefan

    September 21, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    I want my galaxy far, far away back!

  7. 7.

    Mark S.

    September 21, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Um, they’re dorks?

    Seriously, my girlfriend reminded me the other day that Captain Ed put stardates on all his posts.

  8. 8.

    Comrade Darkness

    September 21, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Whoo hoo, more childish temper tantrums from the rightees. Since they are pulling advice from very unlikely sources I say the libs do too. I recommend libs respond to wingnut tantrums the way old catholic nun school teachers did: with a metal edged ruler.

  9. 9.

    Stefan

    September 21, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    You think death panels are bad? Wait until you see the government-controlled Death Stars…..

  10. 10.

    Quaker in a Basement

    September 21, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    References from the Simpsons weren’t winning them any elections.

  11. 11.

    r€nato

    September 21, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Maybe they like Star Wars so much because they dig the bit where Luke had a hard-on for his sister?

  12. 12.

    r€nato

    September 21, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    @Stefan:

    well, if I am supposed to believe wrong-wing propaganda, it won’t work anyway…

  13. 13.

    ellaesther

    September 21, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    @Stefan: Ok, that’s brilliant.

  14. 14.

    Tropical Fats

    September 21, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Because you know who was the voice of Darth Vader?

    A black dude, that’s who!

  15. 15.

    Ann B. Nonymous

    September 21, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    Their serious policy views are based on children’s wish fulfillment fantasies. I blame Rousseau.

  16. 16.

    Librarian

    September 21, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    It’s the usual right-wing portrayal of themselves as either victims or as underdogs and rebels fighting against those evil libruls who control everything. They love to see themselves as fighting The Man, when in reality they are The Man.

  17. 17.

    r€nato

    September 21, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    wingnuts live in an imaginary world where cheeto-chugging conservabloggers are tough, manly men, George W. Bush is a military hero and John Kerry is a coward.

  18. 18.

    gwangung

    September 21, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    No, it just says that they’re FINALLY getting this Star Wars thing as a movie. All the cool kids went through Star Wars references YEARS ago and have moved on to B5 and BSG references.

  19. 19.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 21, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    We’re seeing more and more Star Wars references from conservatives. What’s up with that?

    Don’t know, but they can have it. Never been a SW’s fan. It’s simplistic like the RW lizard brain. Good v Evil. The rest is just politics as usual.

  20. 20.

    OldK

    September 21, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    In the wake of swelling popular discontent with the Obama administration and Congress, liberal pundits and elected officials have begun attributing the ferment to anger and confusion among Republicans and independents.
    …
    Eschewing the (de)merits of the policies being promoted in Washington — surging levels of spending, borrowing and (soon to come) taxation — these folks seem to be trying to minimize the dissatisfaction stirred up by those policies by dismissing it as irrational fear and anger, especially in the wake of the massive protests on Sept. 12.
    …
    Their hope seems to be to let the wind out of the sails of the opposition by insinuating that rage, not considered judgment, drives popular opposition to, for instance, the president’s health care reform package.
    …
    Both the 1994 and 2006 elections showcased the tendency of simmering resentment to bubble over and wash the governing party out of power.
    …
    So, too, in 2006 did Democrats like Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid skillfully channel a popular wave of anger toward President George W. Bush and congressional Republicans. Hatred for Bush became de rigueur — and a rallying point for liberals.
    …
    Michael M. Rosen is an lawyer…

    Are we sure this wasn’t written by Camille Paglia?

  21. 21.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    O/T but is there some reason I don’t have a comment box in the next thread over (Looner Calendar)?

  22. 22.

    handy

    September 21, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    No, it just says that they’re FINALLY getting this Star Wars thing as a movie. All the cool kids went through Star Wars references YEARS ago and have moved on to B5 and BSG references.

    Or, in many cases, just moved on. Period.

  23. 23.

    gnomedad

    September 21, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    They’ve worn out 1984 and need a more contemporary policy model. Like the Sith.

  24. 24.

    Josh Huaco

    September 21, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    @OldK:

    Are we sure this wasn’t written by Camille Paglia?

    You can tell it wasn’t written by her. If it were, every third word would be “I,” “me,” or “my generation.”

  25. 25.

    r€nato

    September 21, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    @gwangung:

    well that’s a good take on it.

    I read that comment by the guy who is Sen. Coburn’s chief of staff or press secretary or whatever, who said last weekend that if an 11 year old spanks it to Playboy, he’s gonna catch teh gaii.

    I thought to myself, “Holy Christ, this guy is dating himself by two generations. We made fun of kids who had Playboy; the good stuff (beaver shots) were in Penthouse!”

    And of course today’s pre-teens are, I’m pretty sure, hunting down porno on the web, not in some magazine.

  26. 26.

    MikeJ

    September 21, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    It’s simplistic like the RW lizard brain. Good v Evil.

    The Hidden Fortress was good.

  27. 27.

    Zifnab

    September 21, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    @Librarian: Oh please. The rank and file wingnut du jour is helplessly screaming into the wind that he wants whatever the cheer leaders on FOX News tell him he should want.

    The idea that Joe the Plumber is, in any way, THE MAN is like suggesting the poor schmuck servicing droids on Tantoine who always whines about how the Jedi never get anything done is the real power behind the Empire.

    If the wingnut brigades are so powerful, why didn’t the Seventy Thousand Man Hissy Fit Parade that Glenn Beck put together make any serious impact on health care legislation?

  28. 28.

    freelancer

    September 21, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    lolz, the comment interface is missing from the next thread.

  29. 29.

    Anne Laurie

    September 21, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Never been a SW’s fan. It’s simplistic like the RW lizard brain. Good v Evil. The rest is just politics as usual.

    Also: Cobbled together from bits & pieces of better, more creative, more coherent stories… and heavily slanted towards the marketing of crappy merchandise to ten-year-olds. So the Reicht-Wingers are going with what they know best.

  30. 30.

    OldK

    September 21, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    @Josh Huaco:
    My mistake. Not Paglia, but a 7th grader with a thesaurus written by a sportscaster. Sometimes hard to tell the difference.

  31. 31.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    @freelancer: LOLZ, that’s what I @SiubhanDuinne: meant!

  32. 32.

    Ash Can

    September 21, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I saw that too. I was going to comment that, to be perfectly honest and fair, I didn’t think the wording of Beck’s blather necessarily indicated that he didn’t know Yom Kippur was a movable feast. Maybe DougJ realized that and is tinkering. Nevertheless, I hope he doesn’t remove the post altogether, because I believe Beck does earn himself a proper reaming for suggesting Yom Kippur be politicized at all, even if it’s just by him and his little band of crackpots.

  33. 33.

    Zzyzx

    September 21, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    I really want to comment on that Glenn Beck stunt too because it pisses me off big time. As someone who will be fasting that day, I refuse to let my actions be coopted by that asshole.

  34. 34.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    @ SiubhanDuinne, #21

    O/T but is there some reason I don’t have a comment box in the next thread over (Looner Calendar)?

    I don’t, either. It’s a shame, because DougJ’s post is weak, and unnecessarily so. At least in the Benen post DougJ is responding to, Beck doesn’t say that he wants to make it an annual event tied to September 28, which is what DougJ is riffing off of.

    But take a gander at what Benen quotes:

    This afternoon, Beck wrote a Twitter message that read, “Sept. 28. Lets make it a day of Fast and Prayer for the Republic. Spread the word.Let us walk in the founders steps.” [Grammatical problems in the original]

    Speaking as a Jew, and one who is frankly terrified by Beck’s Christianist crypto-brownshirt Teabagger following, I find his attempt to appropriate my people’s holiday for his own purposes absolutely infuriating. The fact that he moves the horribly offensive “Judeo-Christian” canard one step further (and have you heard that term from anyone but a Christian, or their rare lapdogs like Daniel Lapin, in the last fifteen years?) to make the founders some sort of devout “Judeo-Christians” who observed Yom Kippur is equally incendiary and profoundly ahistorical and ignorant.

    Amazingly, the one thing DougJ criticizes is the one thing that doesn’t seem to be a problem to begin with.

    (edited to replace Cole’s name with DougJ’s, as I carelessly named the wrong poster)

  35. 35.

    binzinerator

    September 21, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    As always, they are looking for an excuse to treat people who are different from themselves in mean and shitty ways but couldn’t because it was socially unacceptable and/or illegal.

    They want an external ego for their id because apparently they either don’t have a functional one themselves or the one they have can’t handle all the ugliness and vileness gushing out and make it acceptable even to themselves.

    These mouthbreathers are shopping around to find something that validates with their wants and beliefs since reality obviously doesn’t and now apparently neither can their own conscience.

    Sith Lords as role models. The Taliban too.

    These people are fucked in the head. It ain’t about policy or politics anymore. It’s about mental illness.

  36. 36.

    Justin Cognito

    September 21, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    Aren’t these the guys who, when Revenge of the Sith came out, saw it and went, “Well, I guess the Empire was right all along”?

  37. 37.

    freelancer

    September 21, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    @Zzyzx:

    George, Sr.: What time is it? Oh, almost sundown. I have to prepare for the Sabbath.

    Michael: It’s Tuesday.

    George, Sr.: Shh.
    —-

    George, Sr.: Tonight? No, it’s Yontif, the first night of Yom Kippur.

    Michael: Dad, that’s just one night, and it’s back in September. That’s okay. You’ve only been a Jew for about two days.

  38. 38.

    Zifnab

    September 21, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    @Warren Terra: What? You don’t remember all the Jews that came over on the Mayflower?

  39. 39.

    Malron

    September 21, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Where does Orly Taitz fit into all this? Jar-Jar Binks? She definitely has the vocal inflections down.

    Michael Steele has to be the hapless Count Dooku, enthusiastically serving the Dark Side until he’s decapitated by his Master’s new apprentice while the evil Emperor smiles.

  40. 40.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    @Warren Terra: I’m not Jewish, and I was sure offended!

    Actually (had I been able to comment on the “Looner Calendar” thread) I was (a) going to congratulate DougJ on yet another swell thread title, and (b) indicate that although I am not Jewish, I was sure offended! At the time, I hadn’t read the full story.

    I’ve read it now. I’m still not Jewish, and I’m still offended. (And would have been equally offended if I were, or were not, Muslim, and Beck decided it would be fun to politicize Ramadan.)

  41. 41.

    ellaesther

    September 21, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    @Warren Terra: I’m with you on that. The man needs to step off my faith.

    I mean, Christians of good will may well want to take him and his ilk on and challenge him/them on the lies they tell about Christianity and this country’s relationship with Christianity — but he is their boy. He is not my boy. (I have called out Joe Lieberman in the past, though, in commentary that I wrote for his hometown newspaper! Unlike Beck, et all, he is, sadly, my boy).

    But Beck had best stop this nonsense right.now.

    What’s next? Is he going to suggest that white folks take Juneteenth?

  42. 42.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Heh. I was making a very similar argument here just last week. I disagree on the necessary need for a “standard bearer” as I would be hard pressed to point to one on the Dem side when they rode their “wave of anger” to power.

  43. 43.

    Joshua Norton

    September 21, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Interesting, especially since the Sith was a direct metaphor for Bushies and wingnuts.

    Obi Wan: “Only a sith thinks in absolutes”

    Remove the nerdiness and you actually have a good saying.

  44. 44.

    DougL

    September 21, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Emperor Palpatine: “Something something something Dark Side. Something something something complete.”

  45. 45.

    Zifnab

    September 21, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: To be fair, the Christians used to hijack holidays all the time back in the day. That’s why the Immaculate Conception is December 8th and Christmas is the 25th – which for some funny reason lands on Mithras’s Day, a soldier’s holiday in the Roman Empire.

    And it’s why an egg-pooping Bunny is the modern symbol of Easter. All those Franco-Germanic-Anglo Saxton druids got their high holidays picked off in the name of the One True Faith.

    So, when you think about it, he’s actually upholding a long standing practice.

  46. 46.

    kay

    September 21, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    I didn’t know there was video of Beck enthusiastically supporting the bank bail-outs. But there is.

    This could be devastating for the true believer teabaggers.

  47. 47.

    ellaesther

    September 21, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    @ellaesther: You know, generally, there’s this whole tendency among American Christians of a certain stripe to behave as if they have the run of Judaism, too. That they can take my faith, my rituals, my prayers, and apply them any old way they like to their own faith. It’s deeply irritating and deeply disrespectful — but of course, they are the type of Christian who generally has no respect for any other faith, anyway, so I suppose “respect” doesn’t really enter into it (except in that faux-respect that they show Israel/Jews, which is roughly analogous to the man who “puts his wife on a pedestal,” but beats her when she dares to step off it).

    And this being the Ten Days of Repentance, I suppose I have to forgive them for it now…! Damn repentance.

  48. 48.

    Bubblegum Tate

    September 21, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    @Librarian:

    Exactly. Remember back when the GOP controlled all three branches of government, they still tried to make themselves out to be victims, creating that crazy-ass Star Wars spoof wherein the GOP was the ragtag bunch of Rebels, and the Democrats were the evil empire that controlled everything? That was hilarious.

  49. 49.

    Riggsveda

    September 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Aw, fer Christ’s sake.

  50. 50.

    Demo Woman

    September 21, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Did you have flooding near you?

  51. 51.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    @zifnab 6:35 pm

    Yeah, I know, and I thought of making some reference to that in my earlier post. I can remember thinking even as a fairly young person (however old I was when I first learned about the Church’s usurping of dates and holidays) that if I had been a Druid or pantheist or Roman or whatever, I wouldn’t have liked it!

    Even so, I hope both Keith Olbermann and the ADL take Beck to task over this.

  52. 52.

    handy

    September 21, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    Re: “Judeo-Christian” actually the first time I became familiar with that term it was from Dennis Prager, a glib RW radio squacker who also happens to be Jewish.

  53. 53.

    Catsy

    September 21, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    Unsurprisingly, Rosen has entirely missed the focus of the dichotomy between Sith and Jedi.

    Sith believe that anger and hate–focused and controlled towards an end–is a source of great power. They are taught to “let go” as a way of learning how to tap into that power–but mastery involves control.

    Jedi acknowledge the truth of this, noting that while this may be a quick and easy path to power, it is ultimately self-destructive–and reject its use in favor of the longer, harder path of self-discipline and inner peace.

    In fact, there is an entire combat discipline used by both Sith and Jedi–Dun Möch–which uses taunts and mindfucks to manipulate the opponent into losing control and making mistakes. There are numerous examples of this in the movies. This makes no sense if you

    So in the end, the Sith Lord was both right and wrong: Anger can be a potent electoral force, but it must be calibrated and controlled, not simply released. Republicans must act accordingly.

    So rather than behaving like an amateur Sith whose inability to control his anger leads to his destruction, Rosen believes that Republicans must behave like a competent Sith Lord and bend the forces of evil towards their own ends.

    Glad we sorted this out. Remind me again why anyone takes these people seriously?

  54. 54.

    Catsy

    September 21, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    This makes no sense if you

    Ignore this. Started writing a sentence, abandoned it, missed the cleanup on aisle 5.

  55. 55.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Re: “Judeo-Christian” actually the first time I became familiar with that term it was from Dennis Prager, a glib RW radio squacker who also happens to be Jewish.

    I’m not familiar with Prager, but that’s kind-of my point. “Judeo-Chrisitan” is used by the American Taliban and by those who fellate them. A right-wing radio talk host who happens to be Jewish (your Mr. Prager, or say Michael Medved) would be expected to use the term, as would Daniel Lapin, who was the Christian Coalition’s pet Rabbi (given his surname, I always suspect a little joke there …), and who also made frequent appearances on right-wing talk radio. I’m not sure, but back during the McCain campaign when he was sucking up to the Christianists 24/7 (well, since he’s Orthodox, 24/6), Holy Joe Lieberman may well have used the term “Judeo-Christian” as well.

    But your average Jew, or your politically active Jew of a liberal persuasion (and the two groups are practically identical) would never use the term “Judeo-Christian”, because they know it’s just part of Christianity’s larger effort to subsume Judaism, to portray Judaism as an irrelevant and outdated precursor to Christianity, and to redefine Judaism as and when they find convenient.

    It’s all very similar to the way that the political heirs of Henry Ford, Charles Lindburgh, and the less reprehensible Wendell Willkie have decided that they are the true heirs of the victims of the Nazis, and the way that people who loved Pinochet, Hitler’s chum Franco, and any number of murderous dictators in Central America not named Castro or Ortega nonetheless claim to be able to detect a so-called “liberal fascism”.

  56. 56.

    debit

    September 21, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    @Quaker in a Basement: Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos!

  57. 57.

    Aimai

    September 21, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    The main takeaway stems from thevfact that they lie about everything. The quote itself has to be understood as a backwards incantation. It should becread

    “since we can not control our fear, we have no other strategic options but anger.”

    aimai

  58. 58.

    Catsy

    September 21, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    “Judeo-Chrisitan” is used by the American Taliban and by those who fellate them.

    Perhaps, but they’re not the only ones. It’s also used by many atheists, agnostics, and other non-religious types as a catch-all to encompass all the major book-based patriarchal religions–sort of an unofficial (and debatably accurate) synonym for “Abrahamic minus Islam”.

    I can understand the objections to it, but don’t automatically assume that anyone who uses it is attempting to subsume Judaism under Christianity or anything of the sort.

  59. 59.

    xanthippas

    September 21, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    No need to bag on Star Wars or dorks in general while taking shots at right-wingers. I posit that most of those fascinated with science and science fiction (even of the soft Star Wars-ish variety) to the left, or perhaps a little libertarian. It’s just that right-wing dorks are particularly dork-ish, and more likely to grab a blog and start referencing the science fiction shows whose points they completely fail to grasp.

  60. 60.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    The phrase ‘Judeo–Christian’ entered the contemporary lexicon as the standard liberal term for the idea that Western values rest on a religious consensus that included Jews.

    Sarna, Jonathan. American Judaism, A History. Yale University Press, 2004. p266

    The movement to include Judaism with Protestants and Catholics came about as a reaction to the rise of antisemitism in the US in the 1920’s, and became formalized when Hitler came to power in the 1930’s.

    Super, super insidious isn’t it?

  61. 61.

    Jay B.

    September 21, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    “You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger.”

    But while the young Jedi resisted his father’s advice, Republican leaders should heed it — sort of.

    Yeah, I think if the last few months have told us anything, it’s that Republicans aren’t angry enough.

  62. 62.

    noncarborundum

    September 21, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    @ellaesther:

    This is less a “tendency among American Christians of a certain stripe” than it is a defining feature of the faith. Don’t forget that long before America was ever dreamed of Christians were appropriating the Hebrew Scriptures as the “Old” Testament of their Bible, and thoroughly twisting those scriptures to imply that Jesus was the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy.

  63. 63.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Makewi, “progressive” used to mean racist know-nothing people who suspected and feared urban sophisticates, immigrants, foreigners, certainly Jews and often Catholics. “Democrat” used to mean racist Southerner who favored slavery, or their fellow travellers outside the South. Even just in the post-WWII era “Republican” used to mean fiscally conservative small-government person, and often to mean Northern liberals and scientists repulsed by the racism, the parochialism, and the anti-Catholic bias common in the Democratic South. “Gay” used to mean happy, and “Homosexual” used to mean clinically insane – criminally so in Britain, and at least in parts of this country. “Partner” has had any number of meanings just in the last several decades, as has “girlfriend”.

    We can play this game all day long, if you want. The meanings of words change. Whole theses have been written about the changing use of terms referring to ethnic minorities, especially those that were first used to escape denigrating meanings attached to the terms formerly used, but then became encumbered by those same meanings. The history of these words is interesting, but what really matters is the changing ways in which they are used.

    The fact that “Judeo-Christian” was a neologism initially coined to circumvent anti-semitism is a curiosity, but that’s all it is. If you look at how it is used today, especially among the politically active, you will find that – pace Catsy – it is almost the exclusive province of those Christianists who have no interest in respecting the rights of religious minorities, and no interest in permitting the Jews to maintain their own religious and ethnic identities independent of Christianity.

  64. 64.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    @Demo Woman 6:43 pm

    A tree came down in my apartment complex, mercifully (as far as I could tell) didn’t hit any buildings but made a mess. I heard about the flooding at Spaghetti Junction this morning and took Peachtree (Industrial, Road, Street) all the way in. Only took 2-1/2 hours to do a 25-mile commute :-)

    But it’s been wicked last night and today, hasn’t it? Hope you weren’t in harm’s way. Same to A Mom Anon and all the other ‘Lanna BJers.

  65. 65.

    JD Rhoades

    September 21, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    Their hope seems to be to let the wind out of the sails of the opposition by insinuating that rage, not considered judgment, drives popular opposition to, for instance, the president’s health care reform package.

    Remember when Howard Dean was called “unelectable” because he was sooo ANGRY!? Remember when Al Gore was too “deranged” and “enraged” to be credible (about six months after he was being mocked for being stiff and dull)? Funny how the people who whine that insufficient attention is being paid to their ranting have forgotten the very criticism they used to level against the so-called “Angry Left”.

  66. 66.

    Demo Woman

    September 21, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m fine. The house that I’m fixing up has a water feature.. little pond and waterfall that is now mud but I’ll fix that.
    For some reason I think mom lives west of me in Cobb or Woodstock and they did get hit pretty hard. There was a lot of flooding near 575 and 92 so I hope she checks in. It’s trite to say, when it rain it pours but it does seem appropriate in her case.

  67. 67.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    September 21, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    It’s the usual right-wing portrayal of themselves as either victims or as underdogs and rebels fighting against those evil libruls who control everything. They love to see themselves as fighting The Man, when in reality they are The Man.

    Yes and no. The corporate overlords are The Man. The redneck and grey-haired rabble are not, and they are steadily losing their economic and (especially for the grey-haired) cultural footing. The problem is that they are blaming the DFH for everything, instead of acknowleging just how much their corporate masters have been using them while eroding the ground beneath their feet.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    @Demo Woman 7:38 pm

    I think you’re like me, and do your geography based on Congressional Districts!

  69. 69.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    Yeah, I’ll take the word of those who are busy denigrating the a set of people who are using the term because they have different politics. The term today means the same thing it meant then, a recognition of shared areas of commonality. You should let a little more gray seep into that black and white world you have built in your head.

  70. 70.

    ThresherK

    September 21, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    I’ve got a different fictional character in mind for the R’s.

    “But until you learn to master your rage…”

  71. 71.

    aimai

    September 21, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Yeah, makewi, I’ve got to go with Warren Terra on this one. the “Judeo-Christian” tradition, like the Holy Roman Empire, is neither Judeo nor Christian and its not much of a tradition. In this country, at this time, its a more or less obvious attempt to co-opt and appropriate the bits of judaism that can be identified with the some kind of vague western civ tradition and graft it on to Christianity so that Christianity can continue to see itself as the heir to everything good and represent itself as in a binary opposition to all other traditions. Since it would be just as accurate to talk about a “judeo-muslim” tradition with Christianity as a kind of outlier, or an “Abrahamic” tradition that unites all three perspectives, the selective use of “judeo-christian” to mean “nice people stuff about america” has to be seen as very, very, politicized. It comes out of a long histoyr of what James Carroll (and christian theologians generally) call “supercesession” which is the principle that Christianity in effect supersedes and sits on judaism. Its not complementary with it or derived from it. Its *better* than Judaism and replaces it. When you talk to people who use “judeo-christian” to describe what they are doing they never give primacy to the jewish interpretation/values of things unless they jump with christian evangelical beliefs. And as for us Jews? well…shit… the good bits of christianity were flat out stolen from us, and the bad bits we have no control over.

    aimai

  72. 72.

    Warren Terra

    September 21, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    @ Makewi

    Yeah, I’ll take the word of those who are busy denigrating the a set of people who are using the term because they have different politics.

    You aren’t paying attention. The people who are denigrating others who have different politics are the people who use the term “Judeo-Christian”. They’re the people who want schoolchildren led in prayers to their God (or, frankly, to any God), they’re the people who want to punish the “Sodomites”, they’re the people who think that their God dictates the fates of womens’ bodies and of the terminally ill. They’re the ones who insist that the Israelis must not relinquish occupied land to gain peace, because they believe Armageddon requires a Jewish people returned to their ancestral homeland and in control of all of it. And they defend these beliefs, in part, not merely by declaring their own religious values but by using terms like “Judeo-Christian” to concoct fictitious historical agreement and origins and to co-opt the moral authority of others.

  73. 73.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    @aimai:

    You are talking replacement theory, which isn’t much in vogue among the Christians in the know these days. Today the term Judeo-Christian means largely what it meant when it was coined, an unofficial partnership in faith.

  74. 74.

    HyperIon

    September 21, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    I don’t watch Beck but I do mostly read the seemingly endless posts about him here and elsewhere.

    However, I did not know until this weekend that he is a recent convert to Mormonism. I find that surprising. I thought he was probably belonged to one of those Southern thumper sects.

  75. 75.

    Demo Woman

    September 21, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I wish, I’m still in Price’s district but in Roswell.

  76. 76.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 21, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    I would add to that, they are the RW who have co-opted the C-J word to say they are bigger and better supporters of Israel than liberals.

    You are talking replacement theory, which isn’t much in vogue among the Christians in the know these days. Today the term Judeo-Christian means largely what it meant when it was coined, an unofficial partnership in faith.

    Of course, the Jewish side of that partnership is going straight to hell for killing baby jeevus and not repenting/getting saved. The American Taliban only considers the Jewish people in Israel as common property managers of the HOly Lands. That is basically it.

    Luckily most Jews see through this garbage and vote 70 percent democrat give or take in national elections.

  77. 77.

    Morbo

    September 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    @Deschanel:

    They’re geeks with no social skills and no one will fuck them?

    Ayn Rand fans, represent!

  78. 78.

    Peter

    September 21, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Where do you think Reagan came up with the term “Evil Empire?” Do you think he was hearkening back to the British or to the Tsar?

  79. 79.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    @Demo Woman. I’ll see your Tom Price and raise you John Linder. (I’m in Duluth.)

  80. 80.

    IndieTarheel

    September 21, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    @r€nato:

    Maybe they like Star Wars so much because they dig the bit where Luke had a hard-on for his sister?

    So you missed the Glenn Beck incest fantasy montage, did you?

  81. 81.

    Mark-NC

    September 21, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    We’re seeing more and more Star Wars references from conservatives. What’s up with that?

    Actualy, I have always believed that Lucas wrote Star Wars about Republicans.

    Anakin Skywalker began as a talanted, loving kid who studied hard and did his best to help others. BUT, he was lured by “the Dark Side” (the Republicans). They twisted his mind with hatred until he would kill anything that moved or breathed in pursuit of his brand of religion.

    In the end, he saw the light and renounced “the Dark Side – Republican” and rejoined the human race.

  82. 82.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 21, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    BTW to everyone: apologies for hijacking this thread in so many O/T directions.

    Of course that could be easily remedied if someone (cough*John*cough) were to start an Open Thread we could play with.

    Tunch and Lily pictures would be a lagniappe.

    Open Thread? John, Doug, Anne, Tim? Anyone? Bueller?

  83. 83.

    Joel

    September 21, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Because they’re a bunch of dorks with the creative instincts of a shrew.

  84. 84.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    …fictitious historical agreement and origins…

    Only, as I just pointed out this origin is known and the agreement isn’t fictitious. I get it, you don’t like christianists, or as those who aren’t wearing that dislike on their sleeve like to call them, Christians.

  85. 85.

    Anne Laurie

    September 21, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    @xanthippas:

    No need to bag on Star Wars or dorks in general while taking shots at right-wingers. I posit that most of those fascinated with science and science fiction (even of the soft Star Wars-ish variety) to the left, or perhaps a little libertarian.

    Um, maybe not so much. I’ve been reading sf since the early 1960s and started calling myself a “fan” in the early 1970s. There’s always been a considerable pro-Authoritarianism bloc in sf fandom, and another (overlapping) small-l-libertarian faction, both of them firmly on the right-hand axis of the American political spectrum. When the first Star Wars movies were released, there were a great many fans who explicitly embraced that ethos as a way of “taking back their fandom” from the chicks, kweers, and DFHs who’d “infiltrated” SF in the 1970s — explicitly the Trekkies, and implicitly all the ‘progressive’ sf writers who sold their first stories to Judith Merril (or, god forbid, Harlan Ellison) rather than John Campbell. Yes, there are plenty of us hardcore leftwingers who love sf and science, but there are at least as many — probably more — fReichtards, talibangelicals, and would-be-robber-barons who think that Brave New World, 1984, and R.U.R. are meant as positive templates.

  86. 86.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    You prefer caricatures. I imagine life is easier that way.

  87. 87.

    Anne Laurie

    September 21, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    P.S. Ix-nay the oll-tray eeding-fay, folks. It’s the blogospheric equivalent of eating junk food — you trade a quick salt/grease/HFCS hit for your personal dignity and the longterm health of the blog.

  88. 88.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 21, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    <blockquoteYou prefer caricatures

    Why do you think we have a category for wingnuts called Clown Sh oes. It is a make believe world you live in, buckwheat.

  89. 89.

    The Raven

    September 21, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    It’s a very conservative movie in many ways: the repressed sexuality, the secret heroes, the clear moral choices. It is a stone’s throw away from “The Force is strong with this one” to blessed by god. And who doesn’t want to think of themselves as blessed by god?

  90. 90.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I see, and by we, you mean the other people who run this place and whom you give a loud “yes sir” to in order to add even some small amount of meaning to your otherwise pathetic little hateful life? You are lucky you live today, because in days gone by your insistence on believing in these fantastical easy views of what is, in actual fact a complex set of realities, would likely have seen you eaten by a bear.

    And I bet you taste bad.

  91. 91.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 21, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    @Makewi:

    LOL, Troll has a hissy fit. ain’t it cute.

  92. 92.

    sloan

    September 21, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    I noticed the same thing the other day. Commented on Gateway Pundit to break the news that Teabagapalooza wasn’t the largest event in American history. I was not very popular. And some dude kept talking like Yoda with “Fear us you will” and “Defeat you we must” type of stuff. Really weird.

    Then the Red Dawn fan club showed up and starting calling me a commie. Classic! They are seriously into their Red Dawn. I had no idea. They really love them Wolverines.

  93. 93.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I’m not so sure you won’t still be eaten by a bear. Seriously, stay indoors.

  94. 94.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 21, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    @Makewi:

    Yo Scarlett, isn’t it about time for your nightly grand exit?

  95. 95.

    Makewi

    September 21, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Scarlett would have eaten the bear. You, notsomuch.

  96. 96.

    EarBucket

    September 21, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Attention Republicans:

    DARTH VADER IS THE BAD GUY.

  97. 97.

    handy

    September 21, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    @Makewi:

    So the original intent of this neologism “Judeo-Christian” was a conscious effort (on the part of whom exactly? Christians? Jews? Both?) to push back against anti-Semitism. In other words its original historical meaning by your citation is largely irrelevant to the discussion here.

    Most of the people who appeal to Judeo-Christian values are doing it contra something quite different now, secularism I believe many on the Right refer to it. The implication being that the U.S. is a nation and as an idea was founded on the bedrock of Old Testament laws and spiritual values. But this is really an argument that serves conservative Christians largely, and not necessarily most people, including Jews–be they “secular” or not.

    And that is the problem. There’s a conceit in the terminology that drives a certain perspective about policy that I don’t think it’s been demonstrated most people share. So your citation of word origin is not helpful.

  98. 98.

    steve s

    September 21, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    So far we’ve heard conservatives say they should take advice from Al-Qaeda, and Darth Vader.

    No self-awareness, these guys, apparently.

  99. 99.

    Catsy

    September 21, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    The fact that “Judeo-Christian” was a neologism initially coined to circumvent anti-semitism is a curiosity, but that’s all it is. If you look at how it is used today, especially among the politically active, you will find that – pace Catsy – it is almost the exclusive province of those Christianists who have no interest in respecting the rights of religious minorities, and no interest in permitting the Jews to maintain their own religious and ethnic identities independent of Christianity.

    Unless you have data to back this up, I’m afraid I’m going to chalk this up as another case of My Anecdote Beats Your Anecdote. Because aside from my own experiences among the politically active reflecting nothing like what you describe, the phrase is also apparently the province of me, my Jewish partner, her sister, and our Jewish roommate. Who knew we all kept such vile company?

  100. 100.

    anticontrarian

    September 21, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    In answer to the question which the actual post posed:

    They’ve already compared themselves to and modeled their behavior on the Taliban and the Iraqi insurgents. They’re kind of running out of bad guys to try and be like.

    Makes you wonder what’s next. Maybe they could start doing the Bond Villain thing:

    “Enact our conservative policies or we will launch our nuclear missile drill into the center of the Earth! Bwahahahaha!”

    We already know how much they’d love to see Barack Obama suspended over the shark tank. He’d totally get away, though, cuz he’s smooth like that.

  101. 101.

    Donald G

    September 22, 2009 at 12:25 am

    @HyperIon:

    However, I did not know until this weekend that he is a recent convert to Mormonism. I find that surprising. I thought he was probably belonged to one of those Southern thumper sects.

    IIRC, Beck converted from Catholicism to Mormonism.

  102. 102.

    Donald G

    September 22, 2009 at 12:30 am

    @anticontrarian:

    We already know how much they’d love to see Barack Obama suspended over the shark tank. He’d totally get away, though, cuz he’s smooth like that.

    Will the sharks be equipped with frickin’ lasers on their heads?

  103. 103.

    ksmiami

    September 22, 2009 at 9:00 am

    Yes, because what we need is more Republican ANGER… Shi*. These people are always mad whether they are in power or not and frankly they totally suck when they run things so let them scream, yell, wear tacky clothes and tea bag all they want. ANGER is not the best political strategy and once released it is pretty hard to control. The Republican party needs to wither and die

  104. 104.

    Silver Owl

    September 22, 2009 at 9:26 am

    Republicans are childish to the extreme to constantly use fictional movies, books and soon cartoons to motivate and self-identify.

    They have zero substance. It is all fictional. It is all made up. It is all pretend. It is grown men and women continously acting like little boys and girls playing the silly pretend games.

    I’m always gobsmacked that they actually believe anyone with an ounce of sense would put a child in charge.

  105. 105.

    tom.a

    September 22, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Republicans live 25 years in the past, they’re just now getting around to what’s hip…25 years ago.

  106. 106.

    CalD

    September 22, 2009 at 10:14 am

    So they take no lessons from science but they do from science fiction?

  107. 107.

    Sasha

    September 22, 2009 at 10:17 am

    We’re seeing more and more Star Wars references from conservatives. What’s up with that?

    Two reasons:

    1). It harkens back to Reagan and the “evil empire”. Nostalgia is always in fashion among conservative circles. The entire unambiguous good vs. evil thing from the original trilogy is meat and potatoes to that crowd. (Note that you won’t see as many references to the more recent trilogy that bespeaks to moral corruption, abuse of power, and difficult choices.)

    2). It’s one of the few things that modern conservatives somewhat “get” and can talk about without sounding like someone who is completely out of touch with American popular culture. (Consider how ridiculous Steele sounded when he announced he was going to help the GOP become more “hip-hop”.) It gives a sort of pop-culture populist cred.

  108. 108.

    bartkid

    September 22, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    >not in some magazine.
    What’s a magazine, old-timer?

  109. 109.

    bartkid

    September 22, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Wasn’t President Obama recently photographed using a lightsaber against one of the U.S. Olympic fencing team?

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