Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

I really should read my own blog.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

In my day, never was longer.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

This fight is for everything.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Faces of Health Care, Part Two

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79Comments

  2. 2.

    General Winfield Stuck

    This has been the big error in dems and Obama’s initial rollout of hc reform, but they have corrected in time I think,. Beginning with the Joint Session speech where Obama laid it out better, and more to the point. Most folks are ok with helping out those who can’t get healthcare and from a distance can see problems with the system as a whole. But most have not had the experience of major illness or accident where they have to use the system in a big way.

    On paper, their policies look good, but they have no way of knowing what would happen if they had to use it to survive and not go broke. Cases like Lee Benders are testament to this, and more folks are now coming around to the notion that even they with good policies are not secure and cannot depend on a scurrilous insurance institution to do what’s right when the chips are down.

    So the numbers of people supporting a PO and all the other reforms have gone up since Obama has taken full time to the bully pulpit, and shot holes in the facade of lies put up by wingnuts and their ignorant mobs. Watching the Senate Markup, I am even more confident, that though it will be messy and tough, we are going to get a decent reform bill passed. Now that the public is starting to realize that nobody is safe with the status quo/

    This has been you weekly Stuck See’s A Pony A Coming Through the Rye.

  3. 3.

    Silver

    So, wait, he’s happy with his insurance, even though it’s bankrupting him?

    He’s not happy with his insurance, he’s happy with his medical care. Which will go away as soon as the insurance parasite is done feeding on his financial past, present, and future…

  5. 5.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Silver:

    My guess is he is someone who is tough minded and doesn’t like to complain about stuff, or at least to project that image.

  8. 8.

    HyperIon

    I have a hard time believing that there are STILL people who do not comprehend the difference between a health care system and a health insurance industry. That is all.

  13. 13.

    Warren Terra

    @demkat620, @General Winfield Stuck
    My theory is that Kyl has marinated in all this winger “Obama’s a tyrant” nonsense, fell asleep watching MacBeth, and reinvented himself as being of no woman born.

  15. 15.

    kay

    @Michael D.:

    Obama works really hard. He’s permitted a few “uhs”. If they were halfway honest, they’d admit that.
    Bush was always fresh as a daisy, but there was a reason that was so. Bush’s always looked like he had just come from a workout and shower because he had just come from a workout and a shower.
    I always felt like “we” were cutting into Bush’s “me” time, with our incessant demands.

  20. 20.

    MikeJ

    Isn’t the whole point of health insurance that you wind up paying for things that you don’t need and when you do eventually need something, other people who have no need of oh, let’s say chemotherapy, will help pay for you?

  21. 21.

    linda

    @Origuy:

    i have never understood why these stories weren’t part of the strategy by the dems. there should have been a summer’s worth of hearings of like this.

  22. 22.

    kay

    @linda:

    Yet. Still.
    A full-out right wing assault since January 20th, and Obama is still more popular than Reagan.

    “At 56 percent, Mr. Obama’s job approval rating is similar to what President Ronald Reagan’s was at this point in his first term (53 percent); President Bill Clinton’s was at 43 percent. Still, Mr. Obama’s approval is down from 68 percent in the spring.”

    The conservative echo chamber’s gotten so much bigger. It’s one of two things: Obama’s resilient, as a political figure, or their influence is waning, despite almost slavish media determination to amplify the daily attacks.
    The economy sucks. He’s trying to reform health care. We’re in two wars.
    Yet, they can’t drive his number lower than Reagans, who was the Most-Loved President Ever, according to conservative folklore?
    Hmmm.

  23. 23.

    Tony Cuda

    John,
    I have never responded to a blog before. My own dad died of MS complications so I guess this is the most compelling occassion I’ll ever get to do this. Thanks for the post and the reminder that behind all the rhetoric are real people and real issues. The stunted nature of most of the MSM debate ignores the reality of health care in this country. My dad was a WWII vet and received care neither he nor any of his family could have afforded. He was diagnosed in 1962, and without the VA my family would have been ruined. As it was, we lived on forms of public assistance, I used War Orphans funds for college, and today I pay much more tax than I ever would have if I’d never gone to college. The public’s investment in my future has returned dividends worth the investment severalfold. The practical economics plus the moral demand argue for support of health care reform. My personal experience do too. Thanks for the truth.

  24. 24.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @kay:

    56 percent is still more than his 53 percent election win. IOW’s normal for post honeymoon stage. Clinton at 43 percent was actually above his vote total in 92, which I think was around 39 percent, though I’m too lazy to look it up and could be wrong.

  28. 28.

    r€nato

    On behalf of all Arizonans, I apologize for Jon Kyl. I cannot understand what my fellow Arizonans are thinking. He does NOTHING for our state. He does EVERYTHING for the GOP corporate-defense-financial-industrial complex.

  29. 29.

    r€nato

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Debbie Stabenow pwnd Herr Kyle this morning, didn’t she. “bet your momma needed it though, sen. Kyl”

    yeah but he doesn’t need it anymore, why should he pay for it?

    Not his problem. This is how they think.

  30. 30.

    kay

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I wondered why Reagan wasn’t being used as a comparison, because I think the economic conditions re: Reagan-Obama are (somewhat) alike.
    Unless there’s some prohibition on comparing The Best President Ever to any other leader, ever, without an immediate heart-felt, groveling apology to Nancy Reagan?
    Nice that they’re finally putting up Reagan’s numbers. Everyone younger than 40 probably thinks that Reagan number is “100%”.

  31. 31.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @r€nato:

    Kyle is a pig, that is all i can say about the dood. And I used to have to apologize for Domenici , Wilson and Pearce, but we went all blue here in NM, thru the turdwhackers out on their keysters, though Domenici retired.

  32. 32.

    MikeJ

    which I think was around 39 percent, though I’m too lazy to look it up and could be wrong.

    Clinton got 43% in 92, despite the fact that third party voters typically vote for the “outs” instead of the incumbents.

    And don’t forget, he got 370 EVs. Obama was only 5 EVs short of that with 10% more of the popular vote.

  33. 33.

    shoutingattherain

    @kay:

    It’s one of two things: Obama’s resilient, as a political figure, or their influence is waning, despite almost slavish media determination to amplify the daily attacks.

    Let’s not dimiss out-of-hand that (sane) people simply understand that the problems we face are going to take time to sort out. It’s also possible that (sane) people actually like Barack Obama.

    I do, and I apologize to no one for it.

  34. 34.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @kay:

    Actually, conditions for Reagan were not much like what Obama has had to deal with. The marginal tax rates were sky hi and he lowered them some, and that set the stage for growth. But he also started the deregulation hysteria (though Carter did some) that led to our current mess, that is much deeper and structural a problem than what Raygun faced.

    Reagan’s numbers went down because of slow job growth but mostly from over reaching his mandate with hyper-partisan zeal to dismantle the federal government and shrink it to bathtub drowning size. The American voter started to rebel and he and his advisors were smart enough to back off on that. Something that Bush/Cheney did not do, and further screwed our business regulatory framework even more than 3 decades of mindless deregulation.

    All Obama has done so far is stop or slow down the bleeding from a severely broken economic model. It is going to be a long hard slog to repair the damage, and the short attention span of the average American voter, along with relentless winger wankery will take it’s toll on the dem majorities I fear. Though I surely would like to be wrong about that.

  35. 35.

    kay

    @shoutingattherain:

    I like him too.
    As a purely political matter, he’s gotta be pleased with that number, considering the economy, and what are daily, shrieking attacks played on a dedicated right wing media megaphone that didn’t really exist (to this crazy extent) when even Clinton was President.
    He’s weathering cable news, which is (IMO) a completely corrosive element. To listen to the media jackasses, he’s at 28% and his Presidency is in Grave Peril.

  36. 36.

    kay

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Good points, all. I was just talking about unemployment. I am of the opinion that the President can get away with just about anything as long as people perceive they are “doing okay”. Clinton’s a good example.
    I’m convinced Bush lost Bush voters not because of Iraq, or Katrina, but because gasoline prices spiked.

  38. 38.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @kay:

    I was just talking about unemployment. I am of the opinion that the President can get away with just about anything as long as people perceive they are “doing okay”. Clinton’s a good example.

    this is true, plus if people basically like the presnit on a personal level. Job growth is the biggest driver of folks feeling they are OK! but there are other areas of insecurity now days that Reagan didn’t face, ie retirement programs, medical treatment, high gas prices etc…… Obama has a hard row to hoe, probably harder than any other presnit since FDR.

    We will find out how much patience the public has.

  40. 40.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @LABiker:

    According to Congress Daily, the CBO says attaching the public plan to Medicare rates will save even more money than originally thought:

    Teehee, poor wingnuts play up the first CBO report as the word of Gawd, and now Gawd has changed her mind.

    Next the blog swarm on the Obamunist cracking the Unicorn whip on the budding Proletariat lackeys.

  41. 41.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Michael D.: You know why he says, “uh”? Because he’s actually thinking between thoughts. He wants to make sure he has the right words.

    Kee-rist on a stick. I can’t believe the idiocy of the “Obama is teh stupid” meme. W.! W.! W.! That’s all I have to say in response to that meme.

  42. 42.

    MikeJ

    O/T but you knew this was coming

    I wish I had thought of it first. Please, send me your money and I’ll send faxes *demanding* congress look into whatever crackpot idea you have.

    We don’t have enough retarded people in (western) Washington (although we do have the discovery institute here) for this scam, but nothing would stop me from buying time in Alabama.

  43. 43.

    kay

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I rely on one of my sisters for “detached voter” opinion, because she’s not only not a partisan, she’s generally not really paying attention, although she votes, and voted for Obama.
    She maintains that in uncertain times people naturally want to listen to one or another determined, confident, grown-up voice, and Republicans are too erratic and childish, leaving her with only one option: Obama.

  44. 44.

    JK

    @Michael D.: @asiangrrlMN:

    The Corner is declaring Obama’s presser a failure because he has said “uh” a few times.

    If you think that was bad, see what Rich “Starbursts” Lowry wrote about Obama. This is Starburst’s opening paragraph:

    President Obama yesterday did his best impression of a high-school sophomore participating in his first Model UN meeting, retailing pious clichés he learned from his pony-tailed social studies teacher.
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/prez_comes_across_as_gullible_sap_iThpnFL1g7RTYvQyCZjvQP

    I don’t think any guy who gets an orgasm watching Sarah Palin on tv is in any position to ridicule Obama.

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    I thought Part One was more compelling. No doubt MS is horrible, and this story is a tragedy but it just doesn’t pull you in and it’s not effective.

  49. 49.

    Warren Terra

    @ General Winfield Stuck, #47
    Did you read the comments at your link? Kerners Ho!

    (Why are the comments on news sites so often vile, anyway? Worse than most blogs, at least the lefty ones /I/ read.)

  50. 50.

    Warren Terra

    @ Mike J
    1) alt. spelling of Voila?
    2) Abbrev. of the magical incantation “Walla Walla Washington”, potentially recognizeable to anyone who, like I, read Robert Asprin’s Myth Adventures as a kid?

  52. 52.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Warren Terra:

    (Why are the comments on news sites so often vile, anyway? Worse than most blogs, at least the lefty ones /I/ read.)

    Yes, I’ve noticed that. The only thing I can figure is that news sites don’t usually engage commenters in the comment section of their blogs. It’s a job I suppose and they likely don’t get paid extra, or maybe something like that.

    @MikeJ:

    Walla

    walla is a sound effect imitating the murmur of a crowd in the background.

    Or it could just be a brainfart.
    or silent cheers from the virtual bj crowd. Best I can do/

  53. 53.

    Svensker

    @MikeJ:

    Walla?

    “Walla!” is the Americanized version of “voila!” It’s quite fascinating example of language formation actually, because I think many users no longer realize its source or French spelling (let alone pronunciation).

    One sees “walla” on the intertubes all the time.

  54. 54.

    RedKitten

    @Origuy: Un-fracking-believable. To think that the insurance company denied her, saying that she should have known it wasn’t an emergency. She woke up bleeding from her fucking nipple! I dare those assholes to find ONE woman who would not be hightailing it to the emergency room if they woke up to that.

  55. 55.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Svensker:

    because I think many users no longer realize its source or French spelling (let alone pronunciation).

    Yes for me. But I somehow knew it was the right word for what I was thinking. Strange how we often use certain language but don’t know why, and it still turns out accurate, much of the time anyways.

  56. 56.

    shoutingattherain

    @Warren Terra:

    Why are the comments on news sites so often vile, anyway?

    Politico.com is prime nutpicking territory. To wit:

    Title 8 of the US Code, sections 1324 and 1325. You should read it sometime. If you’re here legally and make every effort to assimilate into America, welcome. If not, GO HOME. Obama’s myrmidons collected personal information on Joe Wurzenbacher (Joe the Plumber) for the sin of confronting him on his “spread the wealth” so—-ism. We?re called ?rascist?, ?nazi?, and ?un-American? by leftwingnut media pundits and politicians who thought that all of the bizzare, rabid, violent crap pulled by the anti-Bush/anti-military crowd was just great. Obama is trampling all over the Constitution with the aid and support of the main stream media. He has an enemies list in the form of a DHS ?threat assessment?.

    And they believe all this nonsense. Literally and also, too.

    Did “Nutpicking” make The Lex?

  58. 58.

    Warren Terra

    @ Mike J
    Good move. I grew up there, so I know Walla Walla isn’t part of the Pacific Northwest; like everything East of the Cascades, it’s Jesusland. For example, they nominated Ellen Craswell in ’96.

  59. 59.

    Linkmeister

    @Warren Terra: Ah, but Walla Walla is immortalized in the opening theme song you used to hear before Dodgers baseball games:

    It’s a Beautiful Day for a Ballgame,
    for a ballgame, today.
    The fans are out to get a ticket or two
    From Walla Walla, Washington to Kalamazoo

    It’s a beautiful day for a home run
    But even a triple’s okay
    We’re gonna cheer
    And boo
    And raise a hallabaloo
    At the ballgame, today!

  60. 60.

    General Winfield Stuck

    I guess this is going to be a slow blogging night here tonight. That’s alright, I’ve got 2 more hours viewing “Solaris” a mesmerizing and very long foreign flick.

  61. 61.

    freelancer

    OT- via Sully, the Stupidest thing I’ve read today:

    I’m not so certain. After all, most reports indicate that the United States had been monitoring the development of this facility for years. In that case, it seems appropriate to applaud President Bush for sitting on this intelligence nugget for a later date, no? Obama’s discretion is not surprising. However, such discretion form the Bush White House – an administration known for its itchy trigger finger – is in fact far more laudable.

    Yeah Obama did okay positioning the chess pieces into place to totally embarrass the Iranian government, but let’s carve W’s face onto Mt Rushmore because he did us the greater service of not fucking it up in the first place.

  63. 63.

    shoutingattherain

    @Warren Terra:

    I grew up there, so I know Walla Walla isn’t part of the Pacific Northwest; like everything East of the Cascades..

    Steady there, WT. I live east of the ‘Cades down here in Bend, and I can assure you we feel very much a part of the PNW.

  64. 64.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Linkmeister:

    Freshly-caught mahi mahi, sautéed in butter.

    They look too much like Dolphin’s and I ain’t about to eat Flipper, no sireee!

  65. 65.

    robertdsc

    It’s also possible that (sane) people actually like Barack Obama.
    I do, and I apologize to no one for it.

    I do, too. I just have reservations about some of his policies.

    In fact, I carry on my iPhone the music that he chose for the Grant Park victory speech which was taken from the Remember The Titans soundtrack. Every time I hear that tune, I remember that day. The best of times.

  66. 66.

    Tattoosydney

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Perhaps there are hordes of us lurking, waiting for a Friday night OT.

    How are you, General?

    It’s a lovely warm springish morning in Sydney. I’m baking raisin bread rolls, and catching up on some well needed pruning in the garden.

    As a tip for all, I have just finished reading “Me Cheeta: My life in Hollywood” – a rollicking and charming “autobiography” of a (chain smoking, booze swilling) movie chimp, which involves Hollywood parties, libelous abuse of Mickey Rooney and Esther Williams, liberal amounts of swearing, more sex and drugs than you can poke a monkey at, and a quite lovely love story about an ape-man and an ape.

  67. 67.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @shoutingattherain:

    Steady there, WT. I live east of the ‘Cades down here in Bend,

    If you mean Bend, Or, I’ve been there many years ago and hiked to top of South Sister MT with some friends. When we peaked over the Caldera rim we saw a wedding. No lie. A whole group of people had climbed 13 thousand feet just so two of them could get hitched/ They stripped off their boots and hiking geer and were dressed in fine Tuxedo’s and Dresses and the bride had a flowing white gown tucked in somewhere.

  68. 68.

    kay

    @Dreggas:

    It’s genuinely funny. You should watch it.

    “Where was President Obama born?”

    I’m listening to conservative crazies differently lately. I can’t help thinking “in five, ten, twenty, thirty years, how will all this sound?” I just don’t think this stuff is going to improve with age.

    Conservatives are going to deny they countenanced this. Can you imagine? They were too frightened to distance themselves from that.

    Luckily, it’s ALL going in the historical record, under “conservative reaction to first African American President”. I cannot wait for the first documentary. This is only one year of material.

  70. 70.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    @kay:

    299 servicemen were killed in Beirut in October of 1982. Reagan’s approval rating in January 1983 was 41%. The unemployment rate in 1983, two years into Reagan’s first term, was 9.7%.

    Eight months into GW Bush’s first term, 40% of which he spent on vacation, 9/11 happened. The war in Afghanistan began in October 2001 and the war in Iraq began in March 2003. Both are ongoing, bankrupting our country in more ways then one.

    I have confidence Obama will beat the curve.

  71. 71.

    shoutingattherain

    @General Winfield Stuck:
    Yes that would be the same Bend, Oregon of beautiful mountains, clean air and water, hippies galore, and a shattered economy:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8239227.stm

    “First to go down. Last to come up”. Appalachia with a view.

    In spite of everything that has gone wrong down here, I still love this place. I came here 25 years ago from Baltimore, don’t miss Back East in the least, and plan on dying here eventually. There are worse places.

  72. 72.

    Tattoosydney

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    We are dust free, thankfully. The “storm” was actually quite placid – there wasn’t a huge amount of wind, although there were gusts. It was more just the sudden blanket of dust, which arrived overnight, so the city woke to blood red skies, which developed into a yellow murk. Very disconcerting.

  73. 73.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    You love me, baby
    But I love you
    And you love me
    So let’s just walla-walla
    Six to eight hours a day
    down by the mango tree

    Dang it, you, dang it, you
    Dang it, you said
    I love you if you love me
    I love me
    So let’s walla-walla
    Down by the mango tree

  74. 74.

    kay

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Thanks for the Reagan info. I think Obama is, at base, an extremely resilient and tough individual, and he’ll do fine. Of all the charges that are leveled at him, “naive” is the silliest. I don’t know where that comes from. The speeches? There isn’t the first indication in Obama’s life or work that he is now or has ever been “naive”, about anything.

  75. 75.

    Fern

    @kay:

    Plus, I have to say that the results he has been getting internationally of late do a lot to increase my confidence in him.

  76. 76.

    kay

    @Fern:

    Honestly, I can’t tell. I don’t know enough about Iran, although I have been hearing about Iran and reading (some) about Iran for what seems like my whole adult life, I have nowhere near a handle on any of it. I’m probably further in the dark on Afghanistan.
    Is he playing some masterful strategy here? I have no idea.
    I do think he’s a tough individual, and somewhat cold. I think there’s some truth to the “cold and calculating” charge. I’m comfortable with it, but I’m not really looking for a Presidential “buddy”, and I already have a father.
    I wouldn’t deny the charge if I were him. It’s what he is.

  78. 78.

    Anne Laurie

    @RedKitten:

    She woke up bleeding from her fucking nipple! I dare those assholes to find ONE woman who would not be hightailing it to the emergency room if they woke up to that.

    Well, pshst, if you’re gonna start worrying about “women bits”, you’ll never make any money in the insurance bidniz!

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