Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

No one could have predicted…

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

So many bastards, so little time.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

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Reader Interactions

111Comments

  2. 2.

    geg6

    Sure, Cole. You ruin my bad, bad ’70s acid flashback to that bad trip I had once when I was forced to take my sister to the Shaun Cassidy concert at the Civic Arena to pollute my ears with the Dead and then run away with your lovely dog. I hope the shit she rolls in haunts you all day. Damn you, John Cole!

  3. 3.

    linda

    i completely missed the post with sam and lily; and i gotta know — were they sent to the chair for a timeout? their demeanor sure looks like they’ve done something naughty….

  4. 4.

    Throwin Stones

    My Sundays have become much better since I stopped watching the bobbleheads, and of course now that football has started. On that note, I will be unable to pull for the Stillers today as they are in the Jungle to take on the Bungles. I believe the Stillers have won something like 9 straight in Cincinnati. The last one I attended was the first-round playoff a few years back where Carson was knocked out at the beginning of the game.

    What does John McCain have to say about this?

  5. 5.

    asiangrrlMN

    @The Grand Panjandrum: As someone who just clicked on every goddamn link on the ’70s thread, I can fervently say–DIAF. I take ONE night off, and another epic bad music from a specific era breaks out.

    To wash out all that mind-numbing crap from my mind, I give to you, Barry White. Yes, I have shared this video many times. So what? It still does it to me every time.

    P.S. Here is a version with better audio. No video, though.

  6. 6.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Perhaps I’m the only one in the world to hold this view — in which case just call me a horrible person now and get it over with — but I hardly have words to express how much I truly HATE the song People Who Need People. CBSSM is using it to tease a later feature on Streisand. I probably won’t watch. Song gives me the creeps.

  8. 8.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I should add to my PWNP rant that I have never understood the adulation of Streisand. At best she leaves me just meh, but I mostly dislike her. Never got why she became such an icon.

  9. 9.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @asiangrrlMN: plenty of room on the bench! Welcome! (I posted my addendum before I saw yours.)

    Great minds and all that. Watched the Godfathers yet? Me neither.

  10. 10.

    John Cole

    When I was growing up, we only had ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS, and one of those annoying rotary antenna dials for when you wanted to switch channels. We did, however, have one of the first Laserdisc players, because we could borrow discs from the West Liberty State College and Bethany College media centers since my dad and mom worked there, respectively. At any rate, Yentl, Fiddler on the Roof, The Greatest Show on Earth, and Airplane were the only discs we owned.

    I’m guessing you know what I think about Babs.

  11. 11.

    asiangrrlMN

    @SiubhanDuinne: Right there with you. She leaves me cold–and not in a good way.

    No, I haven’t watched the Godfathers yet. I am nervous because I have yet to meet someone who does not like those movies (at least the first two). How much of a movie outlier am I? That may be the ultimate test.

  13. 13.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @asiangrrlMN

    Well, I usually get my back up when I’m informed that I simply MUST see or read or hear something. Brings out the contrarian in me.

    But I will be the first to admit that my inner contrarian doesn’t always have my best interests at heart. (Except for McDonalds. I have never had any kind of food from Mickey D’s and never will.)

  14. 14.

    asiangrrlMN

    @SiubhanDuinne: Right there with you. I have that same reaction. The thing is, I’m usually right when it comes to culture and media. I knew I would hate Titanic before I saw it (why won’t they fucking die already?), and the same with Pulp Fiction. If something holds no interest for me (or I actively don’t like it) before I see it, ninety-nine out of a hundred times, I am not going to change my mind. Since I don’t like movies in general, why waste my time watching something I know I most likely will not like?

  15. 15.

    Maude

    Why do I feel that we are getting close to the day when “You LIght Up My Life” is going to be touted as one of the best songs ever?
    Lily is a very good dog.

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne

    A delicious puzzle. Does John LOVE Babs ‘cuz he had this great opportunity to watch Yentl a million times as a kid, or does he DETEST her ‘cuz he was forced to watch Yentl a million times as a kid? Hmmmm . . . .

    I’m going with detest.

  17. 17.

    Fulcanelli

    There are two signs of the impending cultural apocalypse: Sunday Morning political TV shows, and this.

    Don’t say you weren’t warned.

  21. 21.

    dmsilev

    @asiangrrlMN: Re: Titanic, during the height of the frenzy over the film, I saw a mother and daughter walking around somewhere. Daughter was wearing a T-shirt with some dramatic scene from the film (probably the two leads standing in the bow of the boat, or something like that). Mother was apparently a tad sick of her daughter’s obsession, because her shirt read “The boat sank. Get over it.”.

    -dms

  23. 23.

    The next-to-last samurai

    I never cared for Streisand either. A little known diva fact: Liza Minelli’s disco album not only jams-the Pet Shop Boys wrote most of the songs-but one of the songs is a good belly dance song. One would never have thought it possible.

  25. 25.

    Comrade Jake

    I’m glad John McCain is going to be on Georgie’s show this morning. It’s been at least two weeks since he made an appearance on the Sunday shows, and I was really beginning to wonder what he thinks about all this Afghanistan and Iran business. Inquiring minds want to know.

  26. 26.

    Violet

    I love Titanic. But then I’m a sap.

    I also had a relative who was supposed to be on the Titanic – bought tickets and the family thought he was on the ship. At the last minute he decided to stay in Europe an extra week, so he didn’t get on the ship. But in those days overseas communication was so expensive that he didn’t let them know. So when the ship sank, they thought he went down with the ship. A day or so later he finally sent a telegram letting them know he was alive.

    I met him when he was very old and I was very young. I was fascinated by the whole story – family legend and all. And I’ve been fascinated by anything related to the Titanic ever since.

    I wonder what he did with the tickets he didn’t use. I bet they’d be worth something now.

  27. 27.

    SGEW

    How long ’till the cutest dog competition declares a winner? This is going on as long as that damned primary! Will Bitsy soon start talking about dodging sniper fire in Tusla?

    [Still voting every day, mind you. Go Bitsy!]

  28. 28.

    Tom

    Douche bag of the day:

    Many capable young people forgo stable careers in order to try their hands at starving-artistry. The rest of us are under no obligation to subsidize that choice.

    Yes, if you don’t fall in line, and start a respectable career right out of college, you don’t deserve affordable healthcare. Truly the land of opportunity (as long as you’re pursuing the “proper” opportunity, not the “arts” or “social causes” that put your capable talents to waste).

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWM0NmUxYTZjMDdmMGE3M2M1MWU1ZDVjMTc0ZGQ5Mzc=

  29. 29.

    PurpleGirl

    I also dislike “People.” I’m ambivelent about Babs herself and most of her movies. I’ve never seen The Godfather movies — any of them. And I don’t intend to, ever. The Mafia is not a culture I want to glorify in any way.

  30. 30.

    PurpleGirl

    I’ve been watching CBS Sunday Morning for years. This morning’s piece on the Hope Diamond and the Calendar Girls were fun to watch.

  31. 31.

    Fulcanelli

    @Tom: You’ve just done the equivalent of saying “Candyman” three times in a row.

    I’m sure BoB is typing one of his obtuse, verbal diarhea word salads right now.

  33. 33.

    gnomedad

    @Tom:

    Yes, if you don’t fall in line, and start a respectable career right out of college, you don’t deserve affordable healthcare.

    Exactly. How will we maintain order without a populace clinging anxiously to the largess of their corporate masters?

  34. 34.

    geg6

    Steisand has one hell of a voice, which is not to say that I am a big fan. But I can appreciate it. And she’s done some good acting and at least one good directing job. And no, not Yentl. However, about the Godfather films, I hate, hate, hate them and will never understand the adulation of them. All of them suck to the nth degree. I don’t know any women who like them, so I explain it as a male thing and since they still pretty much run all conventional wisdom, I attribute it to male delayed adolescence. The only film I hate more than the Godfather series is 2010, another film that seems to be anecdotally a male preference film.

  37. 37.

    gnomedad

    @geg6:

    The only film I hate more than the Godfather series is 2010, another film that seems to be anecdotally a male preference film.

    I enjoyed 2010, but I understand why many would find it boring and/or lame, even painfully so. But hate? Why?

  38. 38.

    SGEW

    @geg6:

    However, about the Godfather films, I hate, hate, hate them and will never understand the adulation of them. All of them suck to the nth degree.

    I’m not a personal fan of the Godfather films myself, but you have to admit that they’re well crafted pieces of work [1], don’t you? Much in the same way that I have to grudgingly admit that many Spielberg films are very well made, even though I kind of personally despise them.

    This is to differentiate Coppola’s talent as a filmmaker (Apocalypse Now, anyone?) from, say, Michael Bay, whose movies really do suck to the nth degree.

    [1] N.B.: I refer only to Godfather Parts I and II, mind you.

  39. 39.

    SGEW

    Also:

    I don’t know any women who like them, so I explain it as a male thing and since they still pretty much run all conventional wisdom, I attribute it to male delayed adolescence.

    You’re stepping close to a line there, by the way. It’s good to be wary of generalizations based on gender (even if you have a very valid point here: virtually all of the main characters in both The Godfather and 2010 (and 2001) are male, and people (often) prefer films with empathizable characters who share their apparent gender).

  40. 40.

    Molly

    @Demo Woman: Next to Frank Sinatra’s crooning, babs isn’t so bad.

    As a kid, I had Neil Diamond-loving parents. They dragged me to a concert when I was a mere 6 years old, and instead of being indoctrinated, I rebelled, and became a Donnie and Marie fan.

    Any wonder I turned to Dokken, Slayer, Queensryche, and Van Halen as soon as I discovered them, when I was 9?

  41. 41.

    gnomedad

    @geg6:

    Damn, no edit. That was supposed to some hating on 2001: A Space Odyssy.

    lolz, though I think it was a much better film than 2010, I can understand the hate.

  42. 42.

    Montysano

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I knew I would hate Titanic before I saw it (why won’t they fucking die already?),

    First of all, I’ll never get “I know I’m going to hate _____”.

    They don’t die because then you wouldn’t have a movie. Titanic is one of my favorite movies: technically amazing, with a clever way to tell the story. Kate Winslet, also.

    There are several aimless, meandering jam bands that I like, but the Dead were never one of them. I don’t hate them, though.

  43. 43.

    Violet

    @Montysano:

    Kate Winslet, also.

    Kate Winslet was gorgeous in that film. Absolutely gorgeous. I loved the costumes they had her in too. She was perfect for that part.

  44. 44.

    gwangung

    @Maude:

    Why do I feel that we are getting close to the day when “You LIght Up My Life” is going to be touted as one of the best songs ever?

    Actually, I quite prefer this version. (I do make an appearance in this one….)

  46. 46.

    eemom

    From what I know about Streisand as a person, she’s insufferably in love with herself. She does have an impressive voice though. My Dad used to like to say that he wished she’d just shut up and sing.

    I hate the “People” song too, but I like the one that starts out “Midnight, not a sound from the pavement, has the moon lost her memory….” Don’t know what it’s called. I also like the duet she did with Donna Summer in the 70’s “Enough is Enough.” Now there’s a WOMAN song.

    Speaking of, I love The Godfathers I and II (III was an abomination), and I’m a woman. So. Also. Too.

    Finally, WTF does DIAF mean?? Just when I think I’ve gotten all these acronyms……

  47. 47.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Here is Sarah for Fulcanelli.

    The Indigo Girls correctly identified Galileo as the ‘King of Light’. Many others, such as Voltaire, also encouraged Enlightenment. Voltaire was somewhat strange though. His best line was about supporting speech he disagreed with, taking the opposite position of Jim Jones and Barack Obama. But he also wrote this excerpt of a letter to his girlfriend, who happened to be his niece:

    “My soul kisses yours; my prick, my heart, are in love with you. I kiss your beautiful ass…”

    This, in my opinion, is crude writing for such an accomplished man. He also should not have been messing around with his niece.

    Voltaire and Benjamin Franklin were friends, and probably had a lot of fun, back in the day. Voltaire and Galileo were both banished (Catholic Church), as was Trotsky (Stalin).

    Trotsky was actually labeled as an official state terrorist and they got him with an ice-pick in the head, in Mexico of all places. Ben Franklin would have been hung, should we have lost the Revolutionary War.

  48. 48.

    JackieBinAZ

    I went by train from Flagstaff to Albuquerque this weekend and got there to find that my computer lost its operating system en route. Has anyone heard of this happening on Amtrak and if there might be some reason for it?

  50. 50.

    Mike in NC

    I was really beginning to wonder what he thinks about all this Afghanistan and Iran business. Inquiring minds want to know.

    Climbing way out on a limb here, but: “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” is always a crowd pleaser.

  51. 51.

    Mike in NC

    Ben Franklin would have been hung, should we have lost the Revolutionary War.

    Pictures are hung; people are hanged.

  53. 53.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Hung is the action of hanging. Hanged is the end state of being hung. Benjamin Franklin was a very good man and we are all fortunate than he was not hung, ending up hanged.

  54. 54.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Voltaire and Galileo were both banished (Catholic Church), as was Trotsky (Stalin) as was B.O.B. (John Cole).

    Improved.

  55. 55.

    Fulcanelli

    @Brick Oven Bill: Morning BoB, better late than never. So you hang out at right wing meetups for the chicks? Any luck? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink…

    Hey, BoB did you bid on E-Bay for the three-way with Sarah & Todd? Palin. It’s what’s for dinner, or whatever they’re calling it these days.

    The prosecution rests it’s case Tom if you’re still here somewhere.

  56. 56.

    MikeJ

    I went by train from Flagstaff to Albuquerque this weekend and got there to find that my computer lost its operating system en route. Has anyone heard of this happening on Amtrak and if there might be some reason for it?

    Even the best designed laptops fight a constant battle with vibration. When I was road warrior-ing I rode Acela and flew all the time and never had any trouble. Of course I never kept a laptop more than a year.

  57. 57.

    trollhattan

    bOb, I’ve corrected you already on the Trotsky ice pick/ice axe thing yet it sinketh in not. Is our bObs learnin’?

    Your president Obama/Jim Jones pairing had already run its course the first time you clacked it. Enough, vermin.

  58. 58.

    Cat Lady

    I loved the Godfather pics – every shot is perfect, the lighting is perfect, the characters are perfect, the acting is perfect, the story is perfect. I saw both I and II in the theaters when they came out, and have seen them both countless times since. Neither the lifestyle nor the violence are glorified IMHO, and they capture a time and place in a country that’s beginning to figure itself out. Both movies explore postwar America and everyone’s ambition to find their place in it, in other words, everyone whose family immigrated, which is most of us. And Michael Corleone is one of the most psychologically complex characters ever created on film. It never occurred to me that I should look at those movies as a woman – I look at them as a lover of movies, and they’re unsurpassed.

    Streisand, meh.

  60. 60.

    Chad N Freude

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    His best line was about supporting speech he disagreed with, taking the opposite position of Jim Jones and Barack Obama.

    Right. Obama certainly is strongly opposed to allowing views with which he disagrees to be expressed. You are truly moronic. And shouldn’t that be “Jim Jones and William Ayres and Josef Stalin and Fidel Castro and Obama”?

    And judging from Franklin’s reputation as a ladies’ man, he probably was hung, but @Brick Oven Bill: According to the American Heritage Dictionary:

    Hanged, as a past tense and a past participle of hang, is used in the sense of “to put to death by hanging,” as in Frontier courts hanged many a prisoner after a summary trial. A majority of the Usage Panel objects to hung used in this sense. In all other senses of the word, hung is the preferred form as past tense and past participle, as in I hung my child’s picture above my desk.

    Not only are you moronic, you are also ignorant of the language in which you express your moronicity.

  61. 61.

    Leelee for Obama

    Hi FOlks!

    Just a quick update-

    Mom is in Hospice and I am home getting ready to go back a bit later today. It’s close, but no one knows how close, and I have my sister coming in tomorrow, and my brother whenever he can get here. They may not make it in time. Hell, I may not be there , it’s hard to tell, ya know? I’m doing better than I imagined, the Hospice folks are great, just as everybody said they would be. It’s amazing how tough that little woman is-I would have thought she’d be gone already, but she’s not ready I guess.

    Thanks for all the lovely prayers and good thoughts and vibes-I read through them last night, but was too tired to post. It was very comforting and I appreciate you all, more than I can say.

    I’ll be back when this is over-don’t let anything important happen while I’m away, OK?

  63. 63.

    Chad N Freude

    @trollhattan: Thank you. I am thrilled to accept this honor, and I want to thank all the little morons — especially the amazingly moronically talented Brick Oven Bill — for making it possible for me to win this award. (Cue music.)

  65. 65.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @eemom 11:35 am

    I think those words you quoted are “Memory” from “Cats” (Andrew Lloyd Webber). Not 100% sure, though.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Leelee for Obama: I’ve been holding you and your mom in my mind and in my heart. Hospice is wonderful. I wish your mother an easy, peaceful, and light-filled transition. To you and your siblings, nothing but good memories.

  69. 69.

    Brick Oven Bill

    1. There is little doubt that is Barack could control the free exchange of ideas, he would. But he can’t, so he won’t. But he cannot help himself, and will surely try.

    2. I did not bid for a three-way with Sarah and Todd, as the only three-way I would be interested in is with two lesbians, and it is against my Principles and Values, and demonstrated frugality, to pay for it.

    3. This is the Internet, so you can make up your own words, and conjugations.

    ‘Fupa’.

  70. 70.

    JenJen

    I, for one, am really looking forward to the Steelers visiting my fair city this afternoon. C’mon Bengals!!

    Oh and John, sorry to hear you missed President John McCain on teevee this morning. Why doesn’t anyone ever ask if he’s overexposed?

    @Leelee for Obama: Leelee, my thoughts are with you and your family. Hospice people are amazing; take comfort that they are giving your mom the best possible and most loving care right now. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    @Comrade Jake:

    I’m glad John McCain is going to be on Georgie’s show this morning. It’s been at least two weeks since he made an appearance on the Sunday shows, and I was really beginning to wonder what he thinks about all this Afghanistan and Iran business. Inquiring minds want to know.

    I woke up in time to miss almost all of the Sunday pundit shows. I caught the last half of Chris Matthews, but he was just phoning it in. His guests weren’t much better.

    The main thing I got from this is that even though the Republicans almost single-handedly ruined the economy, conservative pundits believe that voters are so disenchanted with Obama and the Democrats that they have a deep desire to vote Republican in 2010 so that the GOP can finish what they started and completely destroy the economy. Tax cuts!

  72. 72.

    Chad N Freude

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    1. There is little doubt that is Barack could control the free exchange of ideas, he would. But he can’t, so he won’t. But he cannot help himself, and will surely try.

    And your lack of doubt is based on what evidence? Presidential history as exemplified by G W Bush? Eavesdeopping on closed-door consultations with Rahm Emanuel? A Robert Langdon paper on Obama symbology?

    3. This is the Internet, so you can make up your own words, and conjugations.

    True. And inventing your own words does so much to enhance communication with others.

    2. I did not bid for a three-way with Sarah and Todd, as the only three-way I would be interested in is with two lesbians, and it is against my Principles and Values, and demonstrated frugality, to pay for it.

    And what do you have against straight women? Are you a heterophobe?

  75. 75.

    Brachiator

    @Leelee for Obama:

    My thoughts are with you and your family. It is good to know that your mother’s hospice care is great. This has to be a comfort in a very difficult time.

    Take care.

  76. 76.

    JGabriel

    Brick Oven Bill:

    I did not bid for a three-way with Sarah and Todd, as the only three-way I would be interested in is with two lesbians …

    You just want to watch? Because, in that setup, you’re not gettin’ any.

    .

  77. 77.

    Brachiator

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Hung is the action of hanging. Hanged is the end state of being hung. Benjamin Franklin was a very good man and we are all fortunate than he was not hung, ending up hanged.

    Since Ben Franklin is responsible for one of the more memorable quotes on the subject, your willful ignorance over grammatical matters is all the more amusing.

    We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

    Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence

    What’s your hang-up, dude?

  78. 78.

    Maude

    @gwangung: I’ll have to look at the link tomorrow on broadband. I have dial up.
    Thanks in advance. It was her singing, not so much the song. She sounded like a lounge lizzette.

  79. 79.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Leelee for Obama: Thank you for popping in to keep us updated. I am very sorry that you are going through this difficult time. I am still sending a white light to guide your mother on her journey. Try to get some rest (I know, I know).

    @Just Some Fuckhead: What would be you? Not doing something you know you’ll hate? Yeah, I can see that.

    @Montysano: I hate epics. I hate Hollywood movies. I hate romantic movies. I hate Leo DiCaprio. I love Kate Winslet, but she was not enough to make me not hate this movie. I hate movies that take a historical event and make it a backdrop for a romantic interlude. That’s how I knew I’d hate Titanic.

    On the other hand, I expected to like The English Patient, and I hated that movie, too (except for the ultra-hot Naveen Andrews), so the reverse doesn’t always turn out to be true.

    By the way, I’m watching the Vikings game and Jerome Boger is the referee. He is teh hawtness. I love a Southern accent.

  80. 80.

    trollhattan

    @Lelee for Obama,

    Please accept my best wishes as you and your family navigate through this trying time.

  83. 83.

    Elizabelle

    Leelee: thinking of you, your mom and your siblings. Hospice is usually peaceful and respectful. Glad that you all got a chance to say goodbye and get used, a bit, to the coming loss. The sudden death of a parent is much harder (for the family).

    Another topic: what do you think about Roman Polanski’s arrest? It was a passing topic on Doug’s antigovt terror link above.

    I am not sure what to think. Yes, a 13 year old was raped. OTOH, it’s been so many years, and the victim has moved forward.

    I don’t think that anyone should be judged solely by their worst — or best — moment.

    What would be a fitting end to this one? Directing an anti-rape movie, telling it from the teen victim’s view?

    A major financial contribution to an organization benefitting teen women? (FWIW, the victim has already received a settlement.)

    Yeah, Polanski would have lost about 10 years plus of his productive worklife to prison, had he been your average rapist.

    What to do now?

  84. 84.

    Brachiator

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I hate epics. I hate Hollywood movies. I hate romantic movies. I hate Leo DiCaprio. I love Kate Winslet, but she was not enough to make me not hate this movie. I hate movies that take a historical event and make it a backdrop for a romantic interlude. That’s how I knew I’d hate Titanic.

    How about horror movies?

    Ten years ago, moviegoers were scared out of their minds by “The Blair Witch Project.” Will the newly released screamfest “Paranormal Activity” have the same effect? Early search interest points to “yes.”… And then there’s the trailer — “Paranormal Activity” did something unique in that the trailer aims the camera at a special sneak preview audience reacting to what they’re seeing on screen.

    http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/buzz-log-paranormal-activity.html

  85. 85.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle 2:12 pm

    I like your point about not judging people by either their worst or best moments. Kind of like the way they used to judge figure skating, throwing out the highest and lowest scores.

    It’s always useful to remember that the most lovable and admirable people have their shadow side, and that with horrible (well, wrong and misguided) you can usually find two or three areas of agreement (the old “stopped clock is right twice a day,” I guess).

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    Yoo hoo. Frank Luntz column in the LA Times today. “What Americans Really Want.”

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-luntz27-2009sep27,0,4242608.story

    Which seems to be accountability and treating each other with more respect. Oh, and freedom. And personal responsibility.

    Luntz: “And when asked to choose from a list of social and cultural challenges facing America, the highest priority is “restoring personal responsibility.” (Even in these toughest of economic times, all most Americans are asking for is a hand up, not a handout. )”

    Whatever you do, don’t hand them any of that nasty government provided healthcare.

    And these folks are into personal responsibility, but there’s a little — how you say — amnesia — going on here.

    On the accountability front: no names of actual people. Howard Beale gets quoted. Otherwise: zip.

    Somehow these folks Luntz has studied went from being optimistic happy campers 15 years ago to fearful mad folks now.

    Is a mystery.

  88. 88.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Brachiator: I don’t care for horror movies, but that movies looks intriguing because it seems to be about more than just blood and guts. Thanks for the link. Ok, gotta edit to say that I just watched the trailer, and it doesn’t seem so interesting any more.

    @Elizabelle: Well, I hate to be all hardcore, but that means then if a person can elude justice for most of their lives, they don’t need to be tried? Or that if a person is rich and famous then they don’t need to be tried if they can afford to live in another country for many decades, thereby escaping justice?

    There are sliding scales of awfulness. Raping a thirteen-year old is pretty high up there. I wouldn’t want him doing any movie on rape victims from any point of view. What would be the point? It would just serve to underscore the terribleness of what he’d done.

  90. 90.

    R-Jud

    @asiangrrlMN:
    As much as I love Chinatown, I agree that he should (finally) face justice. Here is an explanation (not an excuse) for why some people think he shouldn’t be:

    Polanski was taken to Poland by his parents in 1936, and they were forced into Krakow’s Jewish ghetto.
    …
    Although he escaped, surviving thanks to the help of strangers, his mother later died at Auschwitz.
    …
    As an adult, he established a successful film career in Poland, and later in Hollywood, but his life took another tragic turn when his wife, the actress Sharon Tate, who was eight months pregnant, was murdered by followers of Charles Manson in 1969.

    That’s what some people are going on about when they say “Oh, poor Roman Polanski!”

  91. 91.

    Brachiator

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I don’t care for horror movies, but that movies looks intriguing because it seems to be about more than just blood and guts. Thanks for the link. Ok, gotta edit to say that I just watched the trailer, and it doesn’t seem so interesting any more.

    Actually, my posting was a bit tongue-in-cheek, since I figured the odds were good that you were not into horror movies. OTOH, I thought the trailer was kinda fun since the audiences who do like horror appeared to be having fun at the screening.

    Well, I hate to be all hardcore, but that means then if a person can elude justice for most of their lives, they don’t need to be tried? Or that if a person is rich and famous then they don’t need to be tried if they can afford to live in another country for many decades, thereby escaping justice?

    I’m with you on this one. Polanski pleaded guilty to having unlawful sex with a minor, but then fled the country before sentencing. There are some who believe that the judge was going to impose an unduly harsh sentence, but the hard fact remains that Polanski has evaded any kind of punishment for years, and has been enabled by those who feel that, yes, some celebrities and artists should be held to a different standard than ordinary folks.

  93. 93.

    Elizabelle

    I’m not an apologist for Polanski, but it’s an odd case, not handled well at the outset. A crime was committed and a young woman was harmed, very true.

    It’s hard to tell if the original plea bargain the judge reneged on was fitting (less than 50 days in jail, if memory serves). There is a backstory. Maybe the originally negotiated sentence was too light, because the victim — then a very young person — wanted to avoid a trial and step away from the media circus. But what would be just, now?

    Here’s the victim, writing in 2003 when Polanski was up for an Oscar for directing The Pianist.

    “And should he come back? I have to imagine he would rather not be a fugitive and be able to travel freely. Personally, I would like to see that happen. He never should have been put in the position that led him to flee. He should have received a sentence of time served 25 years ago, just as we all agreed. At that time, my lawyer, Lawrence Silver, wrote to the judge that the plea agreement should be accepted and that that guilty plea would be sufficient contrition to satisfy us. I have not changed my mind.

    I know there is a price to pay for running. But who wouldn’t think about running when facing a 50-year sentence from a judge who was clearly more interested in his own reputation than a fair judgment or even the well-being of the victim?

    If he could resolve his problems, I’d be happy. I hope that would mean I’d never have to talk about this again. Sometimes I feel like we both got a life sentence.

    My attitude surprises many people. That’s because they didn’t go through it all; they don’t know everything that I know. People don’t understand that the judge went back on his word. They don’t know how unfairly we were all treated by the press. Talk about feeling violated! The media made that year a living hell, and I’ve been trying to put it behind me ever since.”

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wire/la-oe-samantha-geimer23-2003feb23,0,4716430.story

  94. 94.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle and asiangrrlMN re the Polanski arrest:

    Maybe I should clarify my own comments a little bit. Yes for sure, raping a 13-yo is pretty high up there on the scale of awfulness. When I wrote what I wrote, I was thinking explicitly of Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick. It was an awful thing, handled badly, and tragic for the principals. BUT — EMK spent the rest of his life atoning, doing good as we learned in great detail a few weeks ago — and IMO he redeemed himself and then some. Polanski, I don’t really know enough about. Cheney, um, no. I guess I’m trying, clumsily and messily, to say that at some point you weigh the awfulness against the goodness, see if there’s a pattern, see if there’s remorse or atonement, and judge accordingly. I feel that I’m stepping in murky theological waters here and at the end, for me, it becomes a matter of (gasp! liberal!!) situational ethics.

  95. 95.

    Brachiator

    @Elizabelle:

    It’s hard to tell if the original plea bargain the judge reneged on was fitting (less than 50 days in jail, if memory serves). There is a backstory. Maybe the originally negotiated sentence was too light, because the victim—then a very young person—wanted to avoid a trial and step away from the media circus. But what would be just, now?

    Does justice decay over time? Does it have a half life, like a radioactive element, that gradually fades into nothingness?

    Or do we recognize that a crime is committed not just against an individual, but also society (which is of course, why we have a public justice system and not just private revenge).

    There has been a recent documentary that tries hard to suggest that the judge in the case was a publicity hound, but this does not necessarily mesh with the facts. And in any case, the original judge would not be involved in the sentencing.

    I respect the victim’s sentiments, but that is not the only issue that may need to be addressed.

    Also, there is some lingering notions that the girl had been angling for a film career, and was wild and wanton beyond her years.

    But now we have the Internet, specifically the Smoking Gun archive. And the victim’s grand jury testimony, which got Polanski convicted, indicates that she was isolated from anyone who might have objected, drugged and raped twice, vaginally and anally.

    A thirteen year old girl.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html

    How many years do you think Polanski might have got had he not been a Hollywood celebrity?

    I think that Polanski is a genius, and I note some of the awful tragedies in his life. But I also decided that I will never pay to watch any of his films while he is still alive, or until he submits to the authorities for consideration of his sentence (which still could be limited to some prior time served).

  96. 96.

    Chad N Freude

    @R-Jud: There’s also a detailed account from CNN that talks about judicial misconduct and reneging on the plea agreement. I’ve also read (but can’t find a cite) that the girl’s mother encouraged the encounter to boost a movie career for her daughter and deliberately left the girl unchaperoned. (Not a defense of Polanski’s conduct, but an indicator of more complexity than just “He did it and ran.”)

  97. 97.

    R-Jud

    @Chad N Freude: Yep, just reading that stuff. (Also see Elizabelle’s link. I have some catching up to do, as this crime was committed two years before I was born). Still, it seems to me that he should have appealed the sentence rather than bolting.

    EDIT: Starting to get e-mail from film skool cronies, all headed, “Forget it, Jake, it’s Switzerland.” Har har, guys.

  98. 98.

    Chad N Freude

    @Brachiator:

    I also decided that I will never pay to watch any of his films while he is still alive

    Then see if you can borrow a DVD of “The Pianist”, possibly the finest film ever made about the Holocaust.

  99. 99.

    Elizabelle

    Yeah, brachiator, this is a case where Polanski should get some kind of sentence, maybe time served and a financial penalty; maybe some additional time. I don’t think a draconian sentence would serve any purpose (save for the Nancy Grace set, who are going to eat this up).

    [I am wondering if they kept the initial sentence light to allow him to travel freely to the US for film projects. He could have been barred as a felon, since this was a crime of moral turpitude.]

    Siubhan: interesting case, since Polanski evaded justice at the time and so never got to atone for his crime, and eventually put it (to some extent) behind him. Same situation OJ Simpson found himself in, due to jury nullification. No sympathetic public there.

    Hadn’t thought about the Ted Kennedy parallel, but it’s a good one. He was treated differently than a less prominent negligent driver might have been, but you weigh that against the many years of public service and the good, public and private, he did.

    Being an incredible artist does not indemnify one. Interesting case, though.

  101. 101.

    Chad N Freude

    @Elizabelle:

    Same situation OJ Simpson found himself in, due to jury nullification. No sympathetic public there.

    Not really. Simpson denied his crime, Polanski did not. And what was nullified? Simpson was acquitted.

  102. 102.

    Brachiator

    @Chad N Freude:

    RE: I also decided that I will never pay to watch any of his films while he is still alive

    Then see if you can borrow a DVD of “The Pianist”, possibly the finest film ever made about the Holocaust.

    No thanks. I have always wondered whether Polanski decided to do a Holocaust film because he knew it would allow him to escape a degree of condemnation for his past criminal behavior.

    In any case, there are a large number of great films about the Holocaust and World War II. Arguably, two of the best are the documentaries, Shoah, and The Sorrow and the Pity.

    And one of the earliest documentaries is also one of the most moving, Alain Resnais’ 1955 documentary short, Night and Fog.

    Among fiction films, aside from an obvious choice, such as Schindler’s List, there are two standouts, Louis Malle’s Au revoir, les enfants and Joseph Losey’s Monsieur Klein.

    As an aside, I have always bee struck by the term the Roma people (Gypsies) used to describe the Nazi attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth, along with Jews and other “undesirables.”

    Porrajmos: The Devouring.

  103. 103.

    Chad N Freude

    @Brachiator: I don’t believe that he made The Pianist “to escape a degree of condemnation for his past criminal behavior”. It’s at least partly autobiographical and conveys a feeling of being intensely personal. It’s real cinematic art, and I found it deeply moving.

    Re Roma: See http://www.romani.org/.

    Although the Romani people are often referred to as “Gypsies” (and prefer to be called by their more proper designation, Roma), not all “gypsies” or nomadic peoples are Roma.

  104. 104.

    CynDee

    Bitsy’s collar looks way too tight. I hope the owner will check it and see if he or she would like to have something that tight around the neck.

    Does anyone here have contact with the owner?

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    @Chad N Freude:

    I don’t believe that he made The Pianist “to escape a degree of condemnation for his past criminal behavior”. It’s at least partly autobiographical and conveys a feeling of being intensely personal. It’s real cinematic art, and I found it deeply moving.

    I don’t doubt that the film is moving and well made. I noted earlier that I think that Polanski is a master filmmaker.

    Still, I choose, for now, to skip the film.

    I’m not sure why you included the reference to the Roma, but others should find the link interesting.

    A site that deals more directly with the Roma experience of The Devouring can be found here:

    http://romove.radio.cz/en/article/20320

    A typically sick irony of the Nazi madness is that they accepted that the Roma came from India and were thus “Aryan” to them, but then struggled to find an “explanation” for their supposed inferiority:

    So Nazi racialist Hans Gunther found a justification for measures already long in place to control “the Gypsy plague”: if the Roma were no less “Aryan” than Germans, he theorized, then their supposed “inherent criminal character” must have stemmed from their having mingled with “inferior” races over centuries of nomadic life.

  106. 106.

    bob h

    Contributing to intelligent discussion of national issues is of little importance to the Sunday shows-it is all about delivering eyeballs to advertisers. You do that with gotcha questioning and demagogic guests.

  107. 107.

    Chad N Freude

    @Brachiator: My link to the Roma site & the quote were in response to your remark

    As an aside, I have always bee struck by the term the Roma people (Gypsies) used to describe the Nazi attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth

    I misread that as unfamiliarity with “Roma”. Apologies.

  108. 108.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Just Some Fuckhead: You LIKE Streisand? The mind boggles. I have to rethink everything I know about you.

    @SiubhanDuinne: Oh, I got that. The difference would be that unless you believe Kennedy murdered Mary Jo (and I don’t), his behavior was not premeditated. Obviously, Polanski’s was.

    I can’t help thinking about Sara Jane Olson, an ex-SLA member who eluded justice for decades. When she was finally arrested in MN, many people thought she should not have had to do her time because she had done so many good works in the years following her escape from justice.

    Justice has to be served, no matter how late, otherwise, what’s the point? Then we truly do have a two or three-caste justice system. Now, I could see having Polanski do community service or something like that instead of jail time, maybe. Oh, hell. Who am I trying to kid? We do have a two or three-caste justice system. I don’t see that changing any time soon.

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