So while the Post and the Times are simultaneously concern trolling themselves, apparently worried they don’t read enough wingnut blogs and then publicize their bullshit enough (do the WaPo editors not recognize that mainstreaming right-wing bullshit is Howard Kurtz’s job description), we get another glimpse into what really motivates the GOP.
(via)
JasonF
Apropos of torture and the most recent past administration, did anyone else see the season premiere of Law and Order? It featured Sam Waterston indicting John Yoo and the rest of the administration for murder over the torture memos. Pure Hollywood fantasy, but it was fun to live the dream for a few minutes.
JK
The apple really doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Liz Cheney is every bit as repulsive, repellant, and noxious as her father.
The Cheney family is a malignant cancer within the Repblican Party.
SGEW
They are who we thought they were.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
What a shame that Barry Goldwater didn’t live to see this.
gnomedad
Thank goodness for a new thread. We were about to make Sammy cry.
JK
@JasonF:
That episode of Law and Order was brilliant. Sam Waterston’s performance on the show is consistently outstanding. Jack McCoy rules.
smiley
@JasonF:
I happened to hear Fred Thompson’s radio show today (yes, he has a radio show. Same shit with a southern accent.) and he didn;t disparage any actor on the show but he did make it clear that he disagreed with the content (i.e., writers) of the show. (I don’t follow that show but I got the impression he’s no longer on it).
scav
Wasn’t she Baby Dick? Daughter of Voldemort? I don’t know if a lexicon is complete lacking Death Eaters.
freelancer
There’s so much fantasy in that paragraph, that’s the closest I’m going near it.
steve s
“a simultaneous self-concern troll”
I can’t hang out here anymore. The writing is just too shitty. Later.
Svensker
Which is why, even tho the Dems are spineless, amoral pieces of shit, I WILL NEVER EVER VOTE FOR A FUCKING REPUBLICAN again.
Yeah, lotsa Dems are OK with torture. ALL FUCKING Republicans are, except Ron Paul, as far as I can tell.
George Bush was the reason I left the party. Torture is why I will never go back.
Ash Can
I’m waiting for one of the relatively enlightened political commentators to come right out and call the GOP the party of the criminally insane.
Zifnab
Mr. President! Mr. President!
In the event of Iran acquiring WMDs, would you be willing to eat a giant turd sandwich in the defense of our country? Mr. President! What happens if eating that turd sandwich was the only way to save America?
Mr. President! Mr. President!
What happens if Iran had both nuclear AND biological WMDs? And they’d kidnapped some pretty young rich white girl? What then? Would you eat the turd sandwhich then?
Dick Cheney said that George Bush was willing to eat as many turd sandwiches as it would take to keep our country safe. Rumsfeld cooked up a turd sandwich every day, dating back to before 9/11. Why won’t you eat the turd sandwich, Mr. President? Don’t you love our country?
Sly
The argument’s chronology is what consistently amazes me. Roughly in this sequence:
1) Torture is wrong. The United States does not torture.
2) Torture is wrong. But some “bad apples” may have tortured people. We’ll prosecute them to the fullest extent the law allows, but to claim that their activity was directly or tacitly approved of by civilian leadership is a gross mis-characterization of events. So shut up.
3) Torture is wrong, but ticking time bombs are worse. Also, we shouldn’t be talking about this because Al Qaeda might find out the full details of our interrogation programs by watching CNN. LOOSE LIPS!
4) Torture is still somewhat wrong. However, actions A, B, C, and D are not torture. Just harmless fraternity-like hijinks. TICKING TIME BOMB!
5) Torture is quasi-wrong, and all those things we said weren’t torture may actually be torture because a bunch of guys tested those techniques on themselves and said it was torture. But we only used those techniques a few times on a select group of really bad people. JACK BAUER!
6) OK. We tortured a bunch of people hundreds of times and didn’t really get anything useful from them. But they were bad people! Why do you love KSM so much?!
7) So does the lead go on the left testicle or the right?
Molly
It becomes a question of ethics, and to me, the ability to understand human motivation. Some people believe torture works, evidence to the contrary, because it’s visceral, it’s tactile, it’s none of that fancy psychology stuff. Seeing blood and hearing screams is so much more satisfying. They can get their minds around that, they can see how that would work. The thought of TALKING to someone, bonding with someone in order to get real intelligence? Don’t make no sense. Just hit ’em.
Pretty much the modus operandi I see from anyone on the Right. “Don’t make no sense, just hit ’em.”
Midnight Marauder
@steve s:
Uh…what? I feel like that was pretty straightforward.
geg6
JasonF: Oh, yeah. My John and I watched it and were standing and cheering Sam Waterson. Yeah, it was fiction, but it was some sort of emotional release for us to see that, at least, a principled fictional prosecutor had the balls to finally say enough. And the fact that it was on such a mainstream show just felt good. Hopefully, some of those who don’t pay this much attention might have had their eyes opened to what horrors their government had been doing in their name. And the entire Cheney family are evil, evil people. And the zombies who cheer them on are truly damned souls.
demkat620
Never happen. These are all very serious people.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Sly:
They forgot that you’re supposed to just slowly turn the heat up on the frog in the soup pot, not take the poor thing out and fnck it.
JK
@smiley:
Fred Thompson left Law and Order to run for president. I think there was a matter of equal time involved concerning his presidential run and his role on Law and Order . The show is better off without Thompson.
eemom
Salon reporting that Palin’s book is coming out in November. It’s gonna be called “Going Rogue: An American Life.”
Thereafter, I will have to look at her smirking mug every time I enter a bookstore.
I’m going to be ill.
Legalize
Legalize
Fix’d
Corner Stone
I am concerned.
The Grand Panjandrum
So of course they must now read Drudge even more religiously to get the pulse of the wingers. What possible problem could arise from that stroke of genius.
Take it away Steve Benen:
With Drudge pusing this story, Malkin, RS, the whole of wingnuttia is having a great time with this non-story.
Zifnab
@eemom: I don’t think I’m going to be able to reconcile the idea that Palin supporters are also literate.
demkat620
@eemom: No way. She’s calling it “Going Rogue”
Doesn’t that admit to what she did in the fall? You remember how she stopped listening to the McCain people.
Wow! How’s that knife feeling there Johnny?
Still think she was the best choice?
mutt
As we see, its not orbital half witted wingnuts who cheer torture, but the mainline of the party.
They love torture….tho, Im sure they would be the first to say it hurts THEM more than it does the “suspects” its used on…..and they HATE ACORN.
http://vetspeakblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/acorn-successful-model-for-grassroots.html
Values voters, indeed.
Lets turn to the Dims! certainly they……oh, nevermind……
dmsilev
@eemom: “Going Rogue”? Really? Not “Maverick, you betcha”? How about “Moose-killing and wolf-strafing; an Alaskan story”?
-dms
Litlebritdifrnt
On a lighter note, don’t forget to vote for Bitsy today and everyday! In other news my life has taken a very, very, shitty turn and can be condensed into step daughter that we bailed out of jail last year cause her sister took “bogus” fraud charges out on her and who has been living with us for a year (rent and everything else free) + spare checkbook in the living room dresser drawer + me checking my online bank account and discovering a bounced check and two that had cleared for a total of $400.00 (and an empty bank account) + checking said check book to discover that five random checks (and carbons) had been taken and written to various and sundry “USMC associates” of step-daughter and cashed (or attempted to be cashed) + calling the sheriff’s department to report said step-daughter = a fucking shitty weekend and an even worse Monday having to spend time at the bank (fraud affidavits) and Sheriff’s department to get them all the evidence and me losing all faith in humanity, period. I am going to stick taking in stray dogs and cats, as my boss so eloquently said (quoting Mark Twain) the difference between a human and a dog is when you give a home to and feed a homeless dog the dog won’t bite you. Sorry to threadjack but I had to vent.
Legalize
The upside to the MSM following so many stupid winger hissy-fits is that such will only hasten both the demise of the MSM and the Republican party. I think the current health care “debate” illustrates this point somewhat. The teevee told me that August was just dreadful for Obama and the public option. In fact, I’ve been told that the public option is dead! DEAD! Yet here we are talking about what kind of public option we’re gonna get.
Brick Oven Bill
It is the ultimate irony that this society wrings its hands over the light torture of a handful of men of poor character in order to potentially save lives, while at the same time allowing ladies to operate public transportation systems, fully knowing that this will result in the death and maiming of dozens if not hundreds of our fellow countrymen.
Pilot Error. Per the NYSB, she was talking in an undisciplined manner during final approach in bad weather. Sully would not have done this. You heard him.
Ran Into Another Train. Who knows what she was doing. This wreck was preceded by one in Boston where the female train engineer was talking on her cell-phone. She also got crushed.
jl
Regarding the Sparkman murder, the corporate Drudge loving press had better not promote the wingnut ‘child predator’ smear. Sparkman had a son, and apparently at least at one time, a wife (though not sure what the story was on a wife from press quotes I have seen). Looks like one minor waft of responsible libelous sheer speculation has been taken out from under Riehl’s breezy but slimy hypothesis.
After typing that I am trying to figure out what a slimy breeze is, but whatever, it fits.
RW’s new attack: Sparkman a child predator?
by JLFinch
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/27/215355/517
Morbo
@The Grand Panjandrum: Michael Wilbon said that “everyone” in Chicago hopes he’s successful, so they must have had to dig pretty deep. (Making fun of superlatives here in case it’s not clear)
JK
@eemom:
Deluxe editions of Going Rogue will contain a coloring book, crayons, and construcion paper.
SGEW
[Insert standard formal request to permanently ban B.O.B. for outright sexism here.]
Demo Woman
@Litlebritdifrnt: One of my closest friends have dealt with theft by an adult child. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they can start over.
Brachiator
All of this congeals around the neo-con, anti-intellectual insistence that the only thing that will keep the US safe is power and the unthinking use of force.
The Torture Party Manifesto is also seen in stuff like the recent Ross Douthat opinion piece wondering whether Obama “has the stomach” to do what is necessary, i.e. ratchet up the troop levels in Afghanistan. Douthat’s conclusion?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/opinion/28douthat.html?_r=1
Now, I note here that I am neither a pacifist nor a hawk, and am not reflexively against increasing troop levels.
However, I do not believe that simply believing in a war “wholeheartedly” is the same thing as having some rational strategic and tactical plan.
But in the wingnut universe, there is no amount of complexity or ambiguity that cannot be resolved by the overwhelming use of force.
As an aside, as more debate turns to Afghanistan, I suggest that anytime you hear or read someone praising a counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan, or going on and on about parallels to Vietnam (yes, this includes you Frank Rich), then you are dealing with someone who doesn’t know squat about the region.
SGEW
@Litlebritdifrnt: That is, indeed, a very shitty series of events. Awful.
But please don’t lose hope in all humanity; there are some of us who may still be worth a scintilla of hope, despite our common foibles. Hope things work out better.
calling all toasters
@dmsilev: I was hoping for “Thanks, but no thanks: Quitting your way to the top”
arguingwithsignposts
@Litlebritdifrnt:
sorry to hear about that, lbd. Hope everything works out for the better.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Brachiator:
Historical precedent suggests that believing in a war wholeheartedly can lead to it developing not necessarily to your advantage.
jl
Only good can come of believing whole heartedly in a cause like war and torture, believing so hard that we refuse to let mere facts and reasoning to get in the way. It would be a shame if we turned out back on the wisdom of the Bush II years. Since the Bush II clan has bought property in Paraguay, they are still leading the way, but we refuse to follow. We should declare war on Canada, Mexico, and Europe, just to show them.
“The Paraguayan people had been fanatically committed to López and the war effort, and as a result they fought to the point of dissolution. Paraguay suffered massive casualties, losing perhaps the majority of its population. The war left it utterly prostrate.”
War of the Triple Alliance, 1864 to 1870
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_triple_alliance
Steeplejack
@Sly:
An excellent recap.
dmsilev
@calling all toasters: I think that’ll be the title of the promised Volume II. Which will never be finished, of course.
-dms
Mnemosyne
@Litlebritdifrnt:
And if it does, you can have it put to sleep.
Sorry, that was probably in poor taste. I have a great one about dead babies and pitchforks, too!
Steeplejack
@eemom:
A little something to toughen up your gut in the meantime: Glenn Beck, Arguing with Idiots.
Klink!
gnomedad
@SGEW:
Yup. Typically BOB is at least entertaining, but that was pathetic.
gocart mozart
Has anyone else noticed that B.O.B. has been acting a bit odd today. I think he has had the dosage on his meds changed. Give it a couple days and he will be his old self again.
Keith G
@Litlebritdifrnt: Please do vent. I am not a longstanding community member here, but I am awe-struck by the support found here.
To your point, I suffered an equally diabolical loss several years ago. Funny how I was simultaneously mad and sad for quite a while.
Steeplejack
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Sorry to hear that. I have a friend going through similar with a crazy sister, and it is a constant drag on her.
jl
@gocart mozart: I’ve decided he/she is a satirist, not a real troll. No one can be at the top of their game all the time, especially with the kind of edgy high wire act satire in question here.
Keith G
@Brick Oven Bill: If your comments here are in the least bit serious…….oh, never mind…i know you are a fool playing games.
But, fuck you, anyway.
Svensker
@Litlebritdifrnt:
So sorry to hear that. Big hugs.
Augustine
@SGEW:
“Playoffs?! Don’t talk to me about playoffs!!”
Svensker
@steve s:
We are bereft.
Jack
Maybe I strike a redundant note – but no one in the official establishment has actually disavowed torture, for Ms. Cheney to worry that it’s off the table.
We still maintain our own “gulag archipelago,” although (to be fair) we ought to call it a “rendition subcontinent.” We still allow it in our own domestic prisons.
And we still encourage it every time we give Likud-Labor-Kadima-YisBeiteinu Eretz Yisroel a pass on its everyday policies and practices, spending our dollars to do so…
Molly
@SGEW: [Insert standard formal request to permanently ban B.O.B. for outright sexism here.]
Seconded. He’s gone beyond amusing and unhinged to asshole.
slag
This post captures exactly what pisses me off the most about our discourse. Remember John “Let the Eagles Soar” Ashcroft? That dude was wacko. Way, way more wacko and way more high level than Van Jones would ever be. But did the left do much else but mock the loony aspects of Ashcroft’s character? Did we demand his resignation on the basis of his breast aversion? But what we did care about was his defense of the PATRIOT Act. And Guantanamo. You know…silly stuff like that. And nothing irritates me more than the moronic media complex essentially dismissing meaningful policy concerns in favor of the sensationalist bullshit that Republicans lust after.
Bastards. All of them.
Bad Horse's Filly
I don’t want to come down from my baby-post high, so I’m just popping in to say that if Lynn Cheney decides to run for any office, I will do everything in my power to see she is defeated.
SGEW
@slag: And yet, the horrifying thing is that John “History Will Not Judge This Kindly” Ashcroft might have been one of the few people in the Bush administration that actually showed some ethical principles.
Much in the same way that Christie Whitman was the environmentalist in the administration. You know, relatively speaking.
burnspbesq
@JK:
Is it possible to have one cancer nested inside another, like those Russian dolls?
Ruckus
@Steeplejack:
On a plane a few days ago and sat next to a couple that seemed normal.
Haven’t been sitting for more than 10 minutes and he complains about the seats on a fairly new 757. Actually he complained that his butt hurt. Then states that next time they fly it’s first class only. As I glance over just as he tells his wife that she would like the book he is reading, I notice that it is Arguing with Idiots.
Two things came to mind.
1. The scene in The Getaway where Steve McQueen gets the money back on the train by a well placed elbow or three in the face.
2. The book title must be about the people who buy it and read it.
General Winfield Stuck
@SGEW:
Maybe Hugo was right about that sulfur smell.
BC
We have to continually call attention to the study that shows sleep deprivation, pain, waterboarding, etc., effectively cause loss of memory and, perhaps, the creation of false memories in the subjects. Which means that torture, even if there were a ticking time bomb, would get us squat. The subject would not be able to tell us where the bomb is, would be prone to suggestion and false memory – worse than useless, of course. This is the true torture legacy – no actionable intelligence and lots of fruitless investigations.
burnspbesq
@Svensker:
We are? May I ask why?
Comrade Kevin
“STOP THE CAMPUS LIBERAL MONOPOLY” ad. It’s funny to see some of the ways these people waste their money.
Svensker
@burnspbesq:
Well, obviously. Shut up, that’s why.
Ash Can
@Morbo:
No, not everyone. There are a lot of us here in Chicago — including me — who are afraid the Olympics would put us so far behind the 8-ball financially that it wouldn’t be funny. The Olympics have to pay for themselves — let alone be the economic bonanza that Richie Daley seems to think they’ll be (maybe for his friends, sure…) — and we have no real reason to believe they will.
I love Barack and Michelle, but this is one time I disagree with them.
General Winfield Stuck
@Svensker:
Liberal Fascist.
Tommy
This cartoon says it all:
http://www.ablueview.com/2009/09/washington-politics-cartoons.html
AhabTRuler
My take has always been that since the Israeli Supreme Court denied the legitimacy of the ticking time bomb scenario in validating torture, well that’s good enough for me.
Of course, everyone knows that the Israeli Supreme Court consists entirely of DFH’s.
slag
@SGEW: I know. That’s how bad we’ve gotten. When this:
is considered having principles.
Bastards. All of them. (Have I mentioned that already?)
jacksmith
ATTENTION!! Senators Jay Rockefeller and Charles Schumer fight for the American people and the Public Option Tuesday Sep 29, 2009 http://bit.ly/Y2PRK SPREAD THE WORD!
Congress Has The Votes Needed To Pass A Public Option – TODAY http://bit.ly/TCq7O
Why A Strong Public Option Is Essential – By jacksmith – Working Class
Robert Reich explains the pubic option: http://bit.ly/dDYSJ http://robertreich.blogspot.com/
Hollywood Supports The Public Option :-) http://bit.ly/3XLwPi
It’s not just because more than two thirds of the American people want a single payer health care system. And if they cant have a single payer system 77% of all Americans want a strong government-run public option on day one (86% of democrats, 75% of independents, and 72% republicans). Basically everyone.
It’s not just because according to a new AARP POLL: 86 percent of seniors want universal healthcare security for All, including 93% of Democrats, 87% of Independents, and 78% of Republicans. With 79% of seniors supporting creating a new strong Government-run public option plan, available immediately. Including 89% of Democrats, 80% of Independents, and 61% of Republicans, STUNNING!!
It’s not just because it will lower cost. Because a strong public option will dramatically lower cost for everyone. And dramatically improved the quality of care everyone receives in America and around the World. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.
It’s not just because it will save trillions of dollars and prevent the needless deaths of millions more of YOU, caused by a rush to profit by the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX!
It’s not just because every expert in every field, including economist, and Nobel laureates all agree that free market based healthcare systems don’t work. Never have and never will. The US has the only truly free market based healthcare system in the World. And as you all know now, IT IS A DISASTER!
It’s not just because providing or denying medically necessary care for profit motivations is wrong. Because it is WRONG! It’s professionally, ethically, and morally REPUGNANT!, Animalistic, VILE and EVIL.
THE REASON THE PUBLIC OPTION IS ESSENTIAL:
The public option is ESSENTIAL because over 200 million of you are trapped in the forest of the wolves. Which is the forest of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! With no way out except through needless inhumane suffering, and DEATH. While the wolves tear at your flesh, and rip you limb from lib. Then feast on your lifeless bodies like a dead carcase for transplant parts.
At the most vulnerable times of your lives (when you were sick and hurting), millions of you have had to fight and loose cruel, but heroic battles. Fighting against the big guns of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! in the forest of the wolves. All because you have no place else to go. You have no other CHOICE!
But the PUBLIC OPTION will give you someplace safe to go. And it will give us someplace safe to take you. The public option will be your refugium (your refuge). Where the wolves cannot get at you when your down, hurting, and vulnerable. Where everyone who needs it can find rest, security, comfort and the care they need. Protected by the BIG GUNS of We The People Of The United States. THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE AND COUNTRY ON EARTH.
This is why it is so critical that we do not lead another 50 million vulnerable, uninsured Americans into the forest of the wolves, without the protections of a Strong Government-run public option. We The People Of The United States MUST NOT LET THAT HAPPEN to any more of our fellow Americans. If healthcare reform does not contain a strong public option on day one. YOU MUST! KILL IT. Or you will do far more harm than good. And millions more will die needlessly. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.
To those who would continue to obstruct good and true healthcare reform for the American people, and who seek to trap millions more vulnerable Americans in the forest of the wolves. We will continue to fight you. We are prepared to wage all out war against you, and will eagerly DESTROY! you. Time…is…UP! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! No Co-op’s! No Triggers! NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATES! without a Strong public option on day one.
Healthcare reform can be the GREATEST! Accomplishment of our time and century. A time when future generations may say of us, that we were all, AMERICAS GREATEST GENERATIONS.
BUT WE MUST ACT!
I therefore call on all my fellow Americans and the peoples of the World. To join us in this fight so that we may finish becoming the better America that we aspire to be for everyone.
SPREAD THE WORD!
I have been privileged to be witness as many of you fought, and struggled to take your first breath, and your last breath on this earth. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Life is precious.
Whatever the cost. WE! MUST SUCCEED.
God Bless You My Fellow Human Beings
jacksmith – Working Class
Things You Can Do To Help NOW! http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2009/09/tired_of_watching_people_die_n.html
No Triggers! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-rosenbaum/a-trigger-for-the-public_b_277910.html
Triggers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/weve-seen-these-triggers_b_283583.html
Krugman on heathcare (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)
Senator Bernie Sanders on healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSM8t_cLZgk&feature=player_embedded)
John Garamendi on the Public Option and the Grassroots: http://bit.ly/TJMty
Howard Dean on the Public Option http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SKfW2dUnow&feature=player_embedded
We’re Number 37! in quality of health care http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4&feature=player_embedded
Twitter search (#welovethenhs #NHS #hc09 #hcr #healthcar #obama #p2 #topprog #) Check it out.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
I agree, come back when you get better at it.
Fix’t.
I agree. Also.
mclaren
Here’s what’s really scary about an entire American political party embracing torture as one of their major policy planks:
What’s next?
These trends never just stop. They keep getting more extreme. So some Repub will move to capture the presidential nomination someday soon by moving to the right of the torture proponents.
Where does that put them?
Mass rape? Impaling babies? Organized cannibalism?
You have to wonder just how far the Republicans are going to travel on the crazy train…
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
I think Godwin was invoked within days of Obama being inaugurated (if not within seconds). Calling someone Hitler used to be at the bottom of the invective shitpile. If they went there that fast then you know their crazy train is going to be a seemingly endless mother fucker for the next three (preferably seven) plus years.
I am waiting to see what they do to top Hitler because you know that is what they have to do now.
Chuck
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Antichrist. Then perhaps maybe the Devil himself.
Chuck Butcher
I can’t remember if Bill Clinton got pegged this hard this early, I seem to remember a bit more lag time. Whatever in that regard, this is a real quick descent into real harsh rhetoric, especially for elected officials. The matrix involving spying, torture and bombing with the communist, soshialist, foreigner, and Hitler is interesting and frighteningly enough does require topping going forward.
That is already a real clumping of fear and violence and those stoking it show no signs of easing up. I have pointed out to my Republican friends who are surprised that I’m a lefty Democrat owner of many large firearms that I don’t see much to fear from the left…
There’s a ticking bomb alright, but it resides in what’s left of the Republican Party, they’re going to blow up whatever sanity remains in their numbers.
Jack Canuck
@mclaren:
Ethnic cleansing? Look how well that worked out in the Balkans, after all.
gocart mozart
@Chuck Butcher:
Clinton had no honeymoon. In fact, the media started to go after him a couple days after the election on the gays in the military issue. That’s why his first order of business was to kick that can down the road a few months by appointing a commission and then compromising with DADT. There was also the $200 haircut, “travelgate etc. By June of his first year, he had a 35% approval rating. This is also why he threw Lani Gunier under the bus when the Reps went after her (unfairly of course). While he was never called a Nazi furrener, they did get around to calling him a drug running rapist murderer a few years later.
Xanthippas
The wingnuts love torture so much only because liberals hate it. The GOP platform is comprised of equal parts ignorance, hatred of somebody, and “suck on this!”
gocart mozart
@Xanthippas:
True, if torture or Abu Ghraib had happened under a Dem president, they would have impeached his ass.
twiffer
it pains me to realize their are people who believe our national security policies should be derived from 24
J.D. Rhoades
Mr. President, in a ticking time-bomb scenario, with American lives at stake, are you really unwilling to subject a terrorist’s baby to a sharp stick driven lengthwise through the body to get information that would prevent an attack?
maya
If it could be determined once and for all where those Iraqi WMDs were or weren’t, or if they even existed at all, I might see my way clear to torturing Dick Cheney to find out. Yes, I believe I could.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
What is up with the right wing and nepotism?